WEBVTT - #2070 Is What I'm Doing Working? - Dr. Lillian Nejad 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:03.240 Okay, eight team, It's Harps and it's doctor Lillian. It's 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:06.040 a you project. It's us and you. It's a Monday 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:09.560 here in the thriving metropolis of Melbourne. It's been a 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:12.719 we could say, an interesting twenty four hours. In Australia, 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:15.640 it's been a tragic twenty four hours. We're going to 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:17.520 have a little bit of a chat about or what's 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:20.160 been going on, just like many people have been chatting. 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:22.960 I don't know. I don't know that we're going to 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:27.920 come to any significant realizations or conclusions or solutions. But 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:32.000 I think nonetheless, considering we are a show which is 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:36.080 about the human experience, the good and the bad, the 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:39.440 peaks and the troughs of psychology, the emotion, the physiology, 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:43.320 the sociology of being a person in the middle of 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:47.280 other persons, it'd probably be negligent and reticent of us 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:50.600 if we did not open that door and have a 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:53.000 bit of a chats at the very least. But before 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:57.240 we do that, my friend doctor Lillian is back in town. 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:01.880 High Hi, Craig, how are you here? 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:04.560 Yeah, I know you've been a little bit flat. We'll 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:07.120 talk about that in a moment. What's been happening but 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:11.080 more broadly, what's going on with you. We haven't spoken 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:14.480 on the show for a little while. Any a couple 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:17.479 of months, any updates, anything we need to know. 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:21.480 Oh gosh, I feel like every minute of every day 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:27.040 has been fully accounted for. It's been a very, very hectic, 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:33.880 busy period of time. Not necessarily in a bad way, 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:39.800 but like, yeah, I'm I am in need of I 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:43.600 can feel, especially after yesterday. I mean, we can talk 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:48.360 about that, but I feel like I need downtime and 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.080 I need to just be in a cocoon for a 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.200 little bit and not have to do or worry about anything. 0:01:56.200 --> 0:02:01.560 I feel like we, I don't know, maybe just subconsciously 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.000 stumble towards like we go, oh my god, only three 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:07.160 weeks to go, only two weeks to go, one week 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:12.080 to go. And it's like how many people get sick 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:15.000 when they go on holiday total, you know, they just 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:17.280 do what they need to do, and then they've got 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.400 three weeks off. In the first week they're sick, and 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:23.639 it's like they're subconscious told their body, you can't get 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:26.080 sick yet, because we've got to get through the next 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:28.600 week or two. And then and then when they just 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:33.040 completely relax and switch off the craziness, and it's like 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:35.280 their body then goes, oh, thank God, now I need 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:39.240 to I don't know, I need to fall. Yeah, I know. 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.280 I actually think about that a lot, because I always 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:45.280 find that just before I go on a holiday or 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:49.160 a break, I'm at the peak of my stress levels, 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.560 like just trying to get everything done so that I 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:55.880 can have actual time off without worrying about things that 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:58.600 were working at all. And when you work for yourself, 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:03.560 it's a little bit harder. Yeah, And I've definitely found that, so, 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:09.080 and I exactly what you said. It's you're basically chronically 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:12.440 stressed for like between two and four weeks, depending on 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.519 how long it takes you to get everything sorted out. 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.840 And so of course then when you know you have 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.600 that time, your amenity is lower, and so you're gonna 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:26.680 you know, you're at a vulnerable to being sick, and 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:29.840 then it happens at the worst time because you want 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:36.240 that time to enjoy your time off. So it there 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:37.280 has to be a better. 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:42.160 Way, you know. It's quite funny how we can to 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:44.760 an extent, obviously, we talk about place ebos and no 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:47.920 cibos in the mind and the immune system and our 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:51.240 ability to kind of make ourselves sickle well and all 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:55.120 of that, but just in general kind of terms. I 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:59.880 remember a few years ago, I had an all weekend program, 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.560 one hundred and thirty people, and you know, Fatty harps 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.600 up the front from Friday night to Sunday night. So 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:11.720 I had to do over, you know, two full days. 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.400 I probably had to be in front of the group 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:18.599 about talking, not just in front of the group, but 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:25.160 actual delivering content, lecturing, teaching, coaching the group, probably twenty 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:27.640 hours of content, as well as all the one on 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:31.120 ones in between where everyone wants a you know, a 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:33.960 hug or a chat or a question or a or 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:37.120 a whatever. Right, And I remember I remember in the 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:41.120 week feeling, oh my god, I'm going to get sick. 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:44.080 And I knew I was going to get sick about Friday, 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:47.760 and I just said to my body, you cannot fucking 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:51.640 get sick, So go and get fucked. You can get 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:56.560 sick on Monday, bitch. I'm like I am, and I 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.960 do not know how, but yeah, I just I got 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.480 through the weekend and I didn't feel amazing, but I 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:07.200 definitely wasn't fully blown sick, but I could feel it. Yeah, 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.000 And then I got home on the Monday night. On 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:11.840 the Sunday nights, I did everything I needed to do. 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:15.279 I unpacked, I washed some clothes, I responded to a 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.520 few emails and that was it. And I was just 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:21.039 wiped for about three days. And the next day I 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.839 got up. I was well. I didn't get up. I 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.240 probably got up at some stage. But it's just funny 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:31.040 because I just willed myself not to let that thing 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.279 happen that I knew was going to happen, so that 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:36.680 I could because nobody else could jump in and just 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:38.640 do what I had to do for two days. 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:41.240 So yeah, sometimes you just have to do something, like 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:43.800 you don't really have the choice of saying, oh, well, 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:45.719 like if I cancel, it's not the end of the world. 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:47.880 Well no, actually it might not be the end of 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.000 the world. But you've taken on a responsibility and you 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:54.680 need to, like, yes, fulfill it and people are counting 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:58.280 on you, and there will be consequences for a lot 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:00.960 of people if you can't push through. So sometimes you 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.479 do have to push through. But it is funny, Like 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.400 I was sick for I don't get sick often, thankfully, 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:10.800 but I was sick for a few days. Maybe three 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:14.760 weeks ago, like sick, like I really wasn't going to 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:19.000 be able to do anything sick. But I felt like, 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.080 you know, you know when you're really busy like I 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:23.880 have been, and you're like, well, you can't miss a 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.600 day because you know, like it wasn't like your fache 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:29.000 where you're like presenting to one hundred and thirty people 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:31.359 for three days. It was just like work, work that 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:32.920 needs to get done, and you've got a list and 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:35.919 you're trying to get through it. But for three days, 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:39.040 it was like Nope, I just can't. And I remember 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.240 thinking to myself, like, but I would have never just 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:45.839 taken those three days off to make myself feel better. 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.680 I had to get sick to give myself permission to 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:52.520 have time out, and that's actually not okay, Like I 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:58.320 need to like really rethink that that situation a little 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:01.160 bit more, because those three days were great. I mean, 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:03.240 I wasn't feeling well, but like the fact that I 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:06.480 had that time away and I felt like there was 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:08.839 like zero guilt about having the time away. It's like, no, 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:14.440 I'm sick, and usually I feel like my normal way 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:19.160 is guilt free time away like that doesn't usually bother me. 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:22.440 To like stop working. Yeah, yeah, but I feel like 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:24.720 the last few months haven't been like that. I feel 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:27.520 like I've been pulled in so many different directions and 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.480 need to do and complete so many different things before 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.400 the end of the year that I'm not giving myself 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.800 as much permission. And so it's like, oh, well, thank 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:39.560 goodness I had those sick days, I could have some 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:40.240 time off. 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:43.120 We'll take the most out of you. Is it the 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:47.160 physical stuff of sleep and work and movement and getting 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:54.120 kids stuff done and like whatever, cleaning all the domesticity 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.840 and the just the movement, or is it the mental 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:01.560 load like cognitive load, or or is it emotional stuff? 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:05.200 Like what what derails you the most you personally? 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.920 I think it is Oh gosh, I want to say 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:11.760 all three of but that's probably a cop out. I 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:16.960 think it's all three. Can like it if there's like 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:21.360 a million family appointments that need to get scheduled and 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.800 taken to, and that can be that it can be 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:26.480 a lot just on its own because it's so time. 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:33.600 It's not brain heavy, but it's like time consuming mental load. Definitely, yeah, 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.959 especially because for me, at least, I'm and I think 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:41.040 about a lot of people especially women. I'm going to say, 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:44.520 but there's so many things to think about. So there's 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.200 you know, for me, it's like so many different work 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.080 things like probably I could list probably ten, but like 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:55.679 maybe four major things. Yes, And then you've got your 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:59.320 children and what they're doing and how they're progressing, and 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:02.720 their lives and their social lives and their emotions. And 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:06.280 then you've got you know, your partner and what they're 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:09.160 going through, and the wider family and my family in 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.640 the US. So there's all of that, and then you 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:16.199 just got the regular routine stuff, you know, the laundry 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:20.280 and the groceries, and my partner is he's doing the 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:23.800 bulk of that, like I'm not even doing the bulk 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:27.600 of it, and it's still a lot. And even cooking 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:29.680 and he likes to cook. I don't have to cook 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:33.960 ninety percent of the time, so that's amazing for me. 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:39.760 So yeah, all of those things can an emotional toll. 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:42.760 Of course, again, like there's like yes of me today, 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:47.280 It's like I had this like very heavy feeling today, 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.960 I feel much flatter. I was really looking forward to 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:53.600 talking to you today. Like for the last few weeks, 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:55.000 I'm like, oh, I miss Craig, I haven't been. I 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:56.400 feel like I haven't been on the show in eighties. 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:59.680 I ran into you like last week and I told 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:01.880 you I looking, you know, really looking forward to it. 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:02.520 And I have been. 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:04.040 I've been in like such a good mood and like 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.760 looking forward to it. And then yesterday happened and I 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:09.760 went to sleep early. I never go to sleep early. 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:15.880 Today I had to do like two meetings. If I 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:18.640 could have canceled them, I would have, but as they 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:23.000 but they were not cancelable meetings. Yes, and so I 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:26.560 like literally even put on like a brighter top so that, 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:30.440 you know, like so I could feel more energy for 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:32.680 those meetings. And I've changed for you. I've got a 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.120 blacktop on that I'm like. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:39.160 Real with you, Craig, I look very very coolporate and professional. 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:43.079 I'm wearing black. But yeah, I just feel like very 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:48.680 unsettled and yeah, heavy, and so that of course takes 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.280 a toll. Probably had the emotional toll is the biggest one, 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.640 you know, if you've had When I've had things happen 0:10:55.720 --> 0:11:01.280 to me that take an emotional toll, it's pretty significant. 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:04.240 Yeah, I think the top of my list, my list 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.880 goes like this far and away, emotional and then physical 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:11.560 but I can grind through tiredness. But but yeah, it 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:15.120 definitely fucks me, especially sleep right. But at the top 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:19.920 of my list is emotional if someone that I care 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:23.079 about is sick or dies or is you know, all 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.160 that stuff that you and I spoke about before on 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:29.640 the phone, Like that just derails me. And the cognitive 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:34.760 load is you know, like right now, my submission date 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:39.520 for my you know study is tomorrow, one month and 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.640 so everybody's like, what are you doing for Christmas? I'm 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:46.640 like fucking sitting at my desk. Yeah, like, oh, can't 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:50.199 you just have a week. I'm like you, I wish, 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:53.400 I wish I could have a week. It's like, there 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:56.200 will not be one day between now and January sixteen 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:58.680 where I'm not writing or doing it you know, where 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.640 I'm not or I'm not worth on my thesis, not editing, 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.880 not trying to figure something out. And that's okay, nobody 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:06.720 made me do it, and there's no self pity in that. 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:11.920 But it's hey, Interestingly, I ask chat GPT, is there 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:14.560 a name for the phenomenon when people get sick in 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:19.640 the worth for worth sorry first week of holidays? Yeah, 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.840 and it says, yes, Craig, there is. It's most commonly 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:27.160 called leisure sickness. This refers to the phenomenon when people 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:30.760 become ill colds, flu like symptoms, headache, fatigue, gi issues 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.960 right as a holiday or break begins, often in the 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:38.200 first days. What's going on underneath it? Thanks for asking chatters. 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:42.240 Stress withdrawal when you've been running on adrenaline, cortersole and 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:46.960 sympathetic nervous system activation. Your body finally downregulates and the 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:51.960 immune system can temporarily dip delayed immune response. Stress hormones 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:55.880 can suppress immune function. When stress drops, symptoms that were 0:12:55.880 --> 0:13:00.200 held back show up. Sleep pattern changes over sleeping a 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:06.080 regular sleep can disrupt immune regulation. Behavioral shift changes in diet, alcohol, 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:12.040 routine and exposure planes and crowds, psychophysiological rebound. The body 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:16.200 finally has permission to stop coping. It's not imaginary and 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:21.280 it's been documented in occupational health and stress research. And 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.960 then it says, if you want a more Craigish way 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:28.679 of saying it for a post or podcast, then it says, 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.959 your body doesn't get sick on holidays. It gets honest. 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:37.599 And then it says or more clinical sustain stress days substrained, 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:43.880 bloody hell, sustained stress, delays illness, rest reveals it. Yes, 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:46.920 so it's a real thing. It's a real so is Yeah, 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:48.560 it's therapy that's required. 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:51.800 But well we all have that experience and we all 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:53.840 had it. It's definitely I mean, so it has to 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.319 be a real thing. It's just like, what's the why. 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:03.079 For everyone might be different? Yeah, Now, so for our listeners, 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:07.520 and about forty percent of our listeners are overseas, so 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:12.040 about sixty percent are Aussies, and so the nearly half 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:15.320 of our listeners who don't know what we're talking about 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.679 when we're saying something horrible happened in Australia, you might 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.480 have heard about it. But yesterday, and for my Aussie listeners, 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:24.520 sorry for the replay for the million at the time, 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.800 But yesterday there was a terrorist attack. Yesterday being Sunday, 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:32.720 the fourteenth of December in Australia, there was a terrorist 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:38.040 attack where a bunch of people at a Jewish festival 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:43.560 or Jewish celebration Hannuka. Sixteen people I think as we record, 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:48.040 were killed, and somewhere up around as that forty people 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:53.040 were injured. I think somewhere in the ballpark and so 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.880 that's you know, for a country that is very, very 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:00.000 very anti guns. And obviously it was two gun men. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.360 I didn't say that it was two gunmen. And so 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:09.760 it's just been a it's been a lot, and we're 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:11.760 not used to this stuff. We're not used to this. 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:17.200 So it's been all over the media. It's been NonStop, 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.520 and I had to turn off for Telly, Like I 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:22.520 watched quite a bit, but I just went, I can't 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:26.520 keep watching because there's no real ess and I'm not 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:28.760 putting my head in the sand. I know what's going on. 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:32.280 I'm not pretending it didn't happen. It makes me sad, 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:34.200 it makes me all the things that makes me a 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:38.360 bit angry, It makes me all those normal human emotional 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:42.520 and psychological reactions that I would think most, if not all, 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:47.600 of you had a version of also. But I guess 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:51.760 so you and I probably felt very similar. We had 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:53.960 a chat on the phone before we started recording, but 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:58.240 I guess I wanted to talk today a little bit 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:02.320 about so a lot of things that happened to us 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:06.200 and around us, you know, as we just navigate life. 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.720 We didn't choose and we didn't want and obviously none 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:13.960 of us chose this or wanted this, and just you know, 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.960 as a country, and of course more importantly for the 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:23.000 people themselves that were hurt or killed and their families. 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:27.560 But how do we I guess there's no three step 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:31.440 plan to react to hard things? You know, how long 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:38.720 do we allow ourselves to ah, you know, feel what 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.040 we feel? I guess there's no number, And that's maybe 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.360 a dumb question. But do we also need to realize 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:48.480 that we've got to then practically move forward? Doc Like, 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.880 I'm sad, I'm angry, I'm anxious, I'm a bit scared, 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.840 I'm all the things. How long can we sit in that? 0:16:56.400 --> 0:17:02.000 Well? I feel like right now it's it's really not 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:08.320 about how do we cope and fix and move on? 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:13.040 I mean, in relation to what's going on here, it's. 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:16.440 Very fresh, yet it's not twenty four hours as we record. 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:22.520 It's really like, how do we give ourselves permission to 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:29.119 feel the way that we're feeling and keep putting one 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:30.919 foot in front of the other, but maybe in a 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:35.680 way that it's more gentle and soothing and grounding and 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:43.840 that feels safe and and you know, I think for me, 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:48.679 and I think in general, having people around you that 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:54.159 you love and like, you know, the key relationships, you know, 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.120 being able to talk to them or be with them 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:58.800 or or you know, hug each other. I think that's 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:03.560 really come for that's certainly comforting for me. I think 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:07.200 that's really how we get through tough things. A lot 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:14.840 of the time is with other people. So and like 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:19.320 you were saying, you don't want to like inundate yourself 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:21.919 with news, I think that that can be really I 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.040 think what like what happens when we have an event 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:28.680 like yesterday, which it's like, it's so horrible to say, 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:30.679 but you were saying, like we're not used to this, 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.320 and like no one should be used to this. Yes, 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:39.399 but we but we really aren't. Yes, and it really 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:43.760 rocks your sense of safety even though it's unusual. 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:48.560 Yes, And so like. 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:54.200 It's okay, I guess, you know, I think it's okay 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:57.920 to feel like that sense of you know, I'm being 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:00.960 unsettled and feeling unsafe and be wanting to cocoon a 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:03.199 little bit. And I think I think that it's I 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:06.560 think it's okay to give yourself permission to do like 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:10.560 just routine things around your home, around the people that 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:15.440 you love, and not and like you said, be informed, 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:17.480 but you don't need to like watch every second of 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:25.400 every news thing and just ground yourself as much as possible. 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:30.320 But yes, it's very reasonable. I feel really shitty today. 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.320 I know a lot of other people feel that way. 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.600 And on top of that, there's you know, the closer 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:38.640 you are probably to that area, you're going to feel 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:44.720 more even more anxious. And it makes sense to feel 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.639 that way, even thinking about going to bond Aid. Like 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.560 for me, like it's you know, like I have a 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.800 nephew coming to visit in March and I was like 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:57.639 one of you know, I was like, oh gosh, you know, 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:00.400 like that's one of the places it was just and 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:04.080 you know, recently with my mother, and it's such a beautiful, 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:07.600 iconic place and you don't think of it as you 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.960 don't think of any place in Australia's unsafe, but kind 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:13.920 of that, those are just our immediate kind of reactions 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:16.240 to things, you know, and it makes sense to have 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.560 those immediate reactions. And I think like anything that's really 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:21.919 tough and hard and that we hate that you know, 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:25.880 shouldn't happen. And you know, the unfair things that happen 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:29.119 in life that really you can't do anything about and 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:35.960 you can't control. It's just yeah, it's a sense of yeah, 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:42.840 real sadness and grief about that, but also like you 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:47.919 still everything's the world still turns. Things still, you know, Yeah. 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.240 That's the thing that we get the next day and 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:58.119 things are still happening. For me, I'm like, I'm quite empathetic, 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:02.080 so it it. You know, I heard a mum talking 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:05.160 about her little girl and that was it just tears 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:09.160 and stuff and three year old little girl called Gigi 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:14.280 or something. And anyway, I'm I'm listening to that and 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:16.920 I'm sad and I'm crying that I'm listening to other 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:19.879 people and I'm trying to and then somebody sent me 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:22.560 some footage which I wish they didn't send me, but 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:26.679 it was just horrendous. Anyway, Like an idiot, I just 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:30.119 went watched this what's this? And I played it? So 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:32.880 that didn't help. And I mean, at the same time, 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:34.840 I want to be aware, I want to be informed, 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:38.800 I want to care, but I also know at the 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:42.920 same time I can't do anything to change it or 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:48.600 undo what's been done. And so I like, as a 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:54.600 student of human behavior literally and you know, just experientially 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:59.520 out in the field. I'm really interested in just what 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:04.720 happened now, Like, and you know, the fear and even 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:08.919 the paranoia and the outrage and all of those things, 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:13.240 I totally understand. Yeah, And I'm not saying people shouldn't 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:16.200 be outraged or you know, I think what we do 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:20.600 next practically really matters and how you know, because jumping 0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:23.280 up and down and being mad is totally understandable, but 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:26.320 it probably doesn't move the needle in a positive way 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:30.359 on anything, right, So I just think, you know, what 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:34.160 happens next, And I also think, like I was thinking 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:43.679 about this this morning, and I'm like, I personally, in 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:46.760 my whole life, I've never ever, in my whole life 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:51.880 tried to hurt anyone physically ever in my life who 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:54.639 wasn't already trying to hurt me, right, so somebody was 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:57.760 trying to punch me in the face or something, which 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:00.280 you know, I worked in pubs and did security for years, 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:03.320 but you know, so I've been in a few scuffles 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:05.400 in my life and all of that, but every time 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:10.200 defending myself and not you know, but the the standalone 0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:14.480 objective of killing people. But that's what they set out 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:19.520 to do just kill humans that they don't know. It's 0:23:19.560 --> 0:23:29.040 both disgusting and in a way fascinating, not good fascinating, 0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:33.200 like terrible fascinating. But part of me thinks we can't 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:39.320 overcome what we don't understand, and obviously the shooting is 0:23:39.400 --> 0:23:43.960 the byproduct of some kind of weird, fucked up thinking 0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:50.160 and mindset and ideology and beliefs, and like, I'm curious 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:55.720 about that. I'm curious about what drives these people. Not 0:23:55.880 --> 0:23:59.800 so of course that I want to on any level 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:03.399 a line or condone, of course, but I want to 0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:07.760 understand why they are the way they are, so we 0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:10.639 can deal with that before we get to what we 0:24:10.760 --> 0:24:14.080 got to yesterday. You know, you think about this like 0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:18.240 you and I live in a world where, on a 0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:22.919 pretty regular basis, a teenager will put on a vest 0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:28.520 with explosives and happily, probably nervously, but happily go and 0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:34.400 blow himself and civilians up, usually him, in the belief 0:24:34.440 --> 0:24:38.720 that they are doing something good and noble. You know 0:24:38.960 --> 0:24:43.280 that happens at the same time as somebody in Brighton 0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:48.560 is getting a skinny latte at the pantry and ordering porridge. 0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:51.480 You know, somewhere else in the world, someone's been so 0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:57.600 indoctrinated that they And also to think about the reality 0:24:57.640 --> 0:25:05.200 that evil people who do evil things don't think they're evil. Yeah, 0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:07.840 Like they don't think people who do bad shit think 0:25:07.880 --> 0:25:11.440 they're doing good shit, like they have a story. It's 0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:14.280 like every religion thinks all the other religions are wrong. 0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:17.239