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Speaker 1: Okay, eight team, It's Harps and it's doctor Lillian. It's

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Speaker 1: a you project. It's us and you. It's a Monday

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Speaker 1: here in the thriving metropolis of Melbourne. It's been a

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Speaker 1: we could say, an interesting twenty four hours. In Australia,

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Speaker 1: it's been a tragic twenty four hours. We're going to

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Speaker 1: have a little bit of a chat about or what's

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Speaker 1: been going on, just like many people have been chatting.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know that we're going to

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Speaker 1: come to any significant realizations or conclusions or solutions. But

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Speaker 1: I think nonetheless, considering we are a show which is

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Speaker 1: about the human experience, the good and the bad, the

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Speaker 1: peaks and the troughs of psychology, the emotion, the physiology,

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Speaker 1: the sociology of being a person in the middle of

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Speaker 1: other persons, it'd probably be negligent and reticent of us

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Speaker 1: if we did not open that door and have a

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Speaker 1: bit of a chats at the very least. But before

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Speaker 1: we do that, my friend doctor Lillian is back in town.

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Speaker 2: High Hi, Craig, how are you here?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know you've been a little bit flat. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk about that in a moment. What's been happening but

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Speaker 1: more broadly, what's going on with you. We haven't spoken

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Speaker 1: on the show for a little while. Any a couple

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Speaker 1: of months, any updates, anything we need to know.

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I feel like every minute of every day

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Speaker 2: has been fully accounted for. It's been a very, very hectic,

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Speaker 2: busy period of time. Not necessarily in a bad way,

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Speaker 2: but like, yeah, I'm I am in need of I

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Speaker 2: can feel, especially after yesterday. I mean, we can talk

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Speaker 2: about that, but I feel like I need downtime and

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Speaker 2: I need to just be in a cocoon for a

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Speaker 2: little bit and not have to do or worry about anything.

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Speaker 1: I feel like we, I don't know, maybe just subconsciously

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Speaker 1: stumble towards like we go, oh my god, only three

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Speaker 1: weeks to go, only two weeks to go, one week

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Speaker 1: to go. And it's like how many people get sick

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Speaker 1: when they go on holiday total, you know, they just

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Speaker 1: do what they need to do, and then they've got

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Speaker 1: three weeks off. In the first week they're sick, and

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Speaker 1: it's like they're subconscious told their body, you can't get

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Speaker 1: sick yet, because we've got to get through the next

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Speaker 1: week or two. And then and then when they just

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Speaker 1: completely relax and switch off the craziness, and it's like

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Speaker 1: their body then goes, oh, thank God, now I need

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Speaker 1: to I don't know, I need to fall. Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 2: I actually think about that a lot, because I always

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Speaker 2: find that just before I go on a holiday or

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Speaker 2: a break, I'm at the peak of my stress levels,

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Speaker 2: like just trying to get everything done so that I

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Speaker 2: can have actual time off without worrying about things that

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Speaker 2: were working at all. And when you work for yourself,

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Speaker 2: it's a little bit harder. Yeah, And I've definitely found that, so,

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Speaker 2: and I exactly what you said. It's you're basically chronically

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Speaker 2: stressed for like between two and four weeks, depending on

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Speaker 2: how long it takes you to get everything sorted out.

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Speaker 2: And so of course then when you know you have

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Speaker 2: that time, your amenity is lower, and so you're gonna

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Speaker 2: you know, you're at a vulnerable to being sick, and

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Speaker 2: then it happens at the worst time because you want

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Speaker 2: that time to enjoy your time off. So it there

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Speaker 2: has to be a better.

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Speaker 1: Way, you know. It's quite funny how we can to

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Speaker 1: an extent, obviously, we talk about place ebos and no

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Speaker 1: cibos in the mind and the immune system and our

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Speaker 1: ability to kind of make ourselves sickle well and all

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Speaker 1: of that, but just in general kind of terms. I

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Speaker 1: remember a few years ago, I had an all weekend program,

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Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty people, and you know, Fatty harps

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Speaker 1: up the front from Friday night to Sunday night. So

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Speaker 1: I had to do over, you know, two full days.

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Speaker 1: I probably had to be in front of the group

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Speaker 1: about talking, not just in front of the group, but

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Speaker 1: actual delivering content, lecturing, teaching, coaching the group, probably twenty

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Speaker 1: hours of content, as well as all the one on

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Speaker 1: ones in between where everyone wants a you know, a

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Speaker 1: hug or a chat or a question or a or

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Speaker 1: a whatever. Right, And I remember I remember in the

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Speaker 1: week feeling, oh my god, I'm going to get sick.

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Speaker 1: And I knew I was going to get sick about Friday,

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Speaker 1: and I just said to my body, you cannot fucking

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Speaker 1: get sick, So go and get fucked. You can get

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Speaker 1: sick on Monday, bitch. I'm like I am, and I

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Speaker 1: do not know how, but yeah, I just I got

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Speaker 1: through the weekend and I didn't feel amazing, but I

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Speaker 1: definitely wasn't fully blown sick, but I could feel it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And then I got home on the Monday night. On

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Speaker 1: the Sunday nights, I did everything I needed to do.

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Speaker 1: I unpacked, I washed some clothes, I responded to a

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Speaker 1: few emails and that was it. And I was just

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Speaker 1: wiped for about three days. And the next day I

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Speaker 1: got up. I was well. I didn't get up. I

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Speaker 1: probably got up at some stage. But it's just funny

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Speaker 1: because I just willed myself not to let that thing

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Speaker 1: happen that I knew was going to happen, so that

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Speaker 1: I could because nobody else could jump in and just

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Speaker 1: do what I had to do for two days.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, sometimes you just have to do something, like

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Speaker 2: you don't really have the choice of saying, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: like if I cancel, it's not the end of the world.

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Speaker 2: Well no, actually it might not be the end of

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Speaker 2: the world. But you've taken on a responsibility and you

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Speaker 2: need to, like, yes, fulfill it and people are counting

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Speaker 2: on you, and there will be consequences for a lot

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Speaker 2: of people if you can't push through. So sometimes you

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Speaker 2: do have to push through. But it is funny, Like

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Speaker 2: I was sick for I don't get sick often, thankfully,

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Speaker 2: but I was sick for a few days. Maybe three

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Speaker 2: weeks ago, like sick, like I really wasn't going to

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Speaker 2: be able to do anything sick. But I felt like,

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Speaker 2: you know, you know when you're really busy like I

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Speaker 2: have been, and you're like, well, you can't miss a

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Speaker 2: day because you know, like it wasn't like your fache

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Speaker 2: where you're like presenting to one hundred and thirty people

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Speaker 2: for three days. It was just like work, work that

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Speaker 2: needs to get done, and you've got a list and

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Speaker 2: you're trying to get through it. But for three days,

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Speaker 2: it was like Nope, I just can't. And I remember

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Speaker 2: thinking to myself, like, but I would have never just

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Speaker 2: taken those three days off to make myself feel better.

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Speaker 2: I had to get sick to give myself permission to

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Speaker 2: have time out, and that's actually not okay, Like I

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Speaker 2: need to like really rethink that that situation a little

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Speaker 2: bit more, because those three days were great. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't feeling well, but like the fact that I

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Speaker 2: had that time away and I felt like there was

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Speaker 2: like zero guilt about having the time away. It's like, no,

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Speaker 2: I'm sick, and usually I feel like my normal way

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Speaker 2: is guilt free time away like that doesn't usually bother me.

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Speaker 2: To like stop working. Yeah, yeah, but I feel like

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Speaker 2: the last few months haven't been like that. I feel

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Speaker 2: like I've been pulled in so many different directions and

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Speaker 2: need to do and complete so many different things before

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Speaker 2: the end of the year that I'm not giving myself

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Speaker 2: as much permission. And so it's like, oh, well, thank

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Speaker 2: goodness I had those sick days, I could have some

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Speaker 2: time off.

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Speaker 1: We'll take the most out of you. Is it the

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Speaker 1: physical stuff of sleep and work and movement and getting

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Speaker 1: kids stuff done and like whatever, cleaning all the domesticity

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Speaker 1: and the just the movement, or is it the mental

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Speaker 1: load like cognitive load, or or is it emotional stuff?

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Speaker 1: Like what what derails you the most you personally?

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Speaker 2: I think it is Oh gosh, I want to say

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Speaker 2: all three of but that's probably a cop out. I

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Speaker 2: think it's all three. Can like it if there's like

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Speaker 2: a million family appointments that need to get scheduled and

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Speaker 2: taken to, and that can be that it can be

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Speaker 2: a lot just on its own because it's so time.

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Speaker 2: It's not brain heavy, but it's like time consuming mental load. Definitely, yeah,

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Speaker 2: especially because for me, at least, I'm and I think

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Speaker 2: about a lot of people especially women. I'm going to say,

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Speaker 2: but there's so many things to think about. So there's

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Speaker 2: you know, for me, it's like so many different work

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Speaker 2: things like probably I could list probably ten, but like

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Speaker 2: maybe four major things. Yes, And then you've got your

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Speaker 2: children and what they're doing and how they're progressing, and

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Speaker 2: their lives and their social lives and their emotions. And

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Speaker 2: then you've got you know, your partner and what they're

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Speaker 2: going through, and the wider family and my family in

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Speaker 2: the US. So there's all of that, and then you

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Speaker 2: just got the regular routine stuff, you know, the laundry

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Speaker 2: and the groceries, and my partner is he's doing the

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Speaker 2: bulk of that, like I'm not even doing the bulk

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Speaker 2: of it, and it's still a lot. And even cooking

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Speaker 2: and he likes to cook. I don't have to cook

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Speaker 2: ninety percent of the time, so that's amazing for me.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, all of those things can an emotional toll.

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Speaker 2: Of course, again, like there's like yes of me today,

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Speaker 2: It's like I had this like very heavy feeling today,

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Speaker 2: I feel much flatter. I was really looking forward to

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Speaker 2: talking to you today. Like for the last few weeks,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I miss Craig, I haven't been. I

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Speaker 2: feel like I haven't been on the show in eighties.

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Speaker 2: I ran into you like last week and I told

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Speaker 2: you I looking, you know, really looking forward to it.

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Speaker 1: And I have been.

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Speaker 2: I've been in like such a good mood and like

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Speaker 2: looking forward to it. And then yesterday happened and I

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Speaker 2: went to sleep early. I never go to sleep early.

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Speaker 2: Today I had to do like two meetings. If I

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Speaker 2: could have canceled them, I would have, but as they

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Speaker 2: but they were not cancelable meetings. Yes, and so I

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Speaker 2: like literally even put on like a brighter top so that,

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Speaker 2: you know, like so I could feel more energy for

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Speaker 2: those meetings. And I've changed for you. I've got a

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Speaker 2: blacktop on that I'm like.

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Speaker 1: Real with you, Craig, I look very very coolporate and professional.

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Speaker 2: I'm wearing black. But yeah, I just feel like very

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Speaker 2: unsettled and yeah, heavy, and so that of course takes

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Speaker 2: a toll. Probably had the emotional toll is the biggest one,

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Speaker 2: you know, if you've had When I've had things happen

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Speaker 2: to me that take an emotional toll, it's pretty significant.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the top of my list, my list

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Speaker 1: goes like this far and away, emotional and then physical

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Speaker 1: but I can grind through tiredness. But but yeah, it

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Speaker 1: definitely fucks me, especially sleep right. But at the top

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Speaker 1: of my list is emotional if someone that I care

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Speaker 1: about is sick or dies or is you know, all

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Speaker 1: that stuff that you and I spoke about before on

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Speaker 1: the phone, Like that just derails me. And the cognitive

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Speaker 1: load is you know, like right now, my submission date

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Speaker 1: for my you know study is tomorrow, one month and

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Speaker 1: so everybody's like, what are you doing for Christmas? I'm

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Speaker 1: like fucking sitting at my desk. Yeah, like, oh, can't

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Speaker 1: you just have a week. I'm like you, I wish,

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Speaker 1: I wish I could have a week. It's like, there

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Speaker 1: will not be one day between now and January sixteen

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Speaker 1: where I'm not writing or doing it you know, where

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Speaker 1: I'm not or I'm not worth on my thesis, not editing,

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Speaker 1: not trying to figure something out. And that's okay, nobody

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Speaker 1: made me do it, and there's no self pity in that.

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Speaker 1: But it's hey, Interestingly, I ask chat GPT, is there

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Speaker 1: a name for the phenomenon when people get sick in

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Speaker 1: the worth for worth sorry first week of holidays? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it says, yes, Craig, there is. It's most commonly

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Speaker 1: called leisure sickness. This refers to the phenomenon when people

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Speaker 1: become ill colds, flu like symptoms, headache, fatigue, gi issues

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Speaker 1: right as a holiday or break begins, often in the

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Speaker 1: first days. What's going on underneath it? Thanks for asking chatters.

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Speaker 1: Stress withdrawal when you've been running on adrenaline, cortersole and

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Speaker 1: sympathetic nervous system activation. Your body finally downregulates and the

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Speaker 1: immune system can temporarily dip delayed immune response. Stress hormones

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Speaker 1: can suppress immune function. When stress drops, symptoms that were

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Speaker 1: held back show up. Sleep pattern changes over sleeping a

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Speaker 1: regular sleep can disrupt immune regulation. Behavioral shift changes in diet, alcohol,

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Speaker 1: routine and exposure planes and crowds, psychophysiological rebound. The body

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Speaker 1: finally has permission to stop coping. It's not imaginary and

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Speaker 1: it's been documented in occupational health and stress research. And

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Speaker 1: then it says, if you want a more Craigish way

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Speaker 1: of saying it for a post or podcast, then it says,

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Speaker 1: your body doesn't get sick on holidays. It gets honest.

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Speaker 1: And then it says or more clinical sustain stress days substrained,

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Speaker 1: bloody hell, sustained stress, delays illness, rest reveals it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so it's a real thing. It's a real so is Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's therapy that's required.

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Speaker 2: But well we all have that experience and we all

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Speaker 2: had it. It's definitely I mean, so it has to

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Speaker 2: be a real thing. It's just like, what's the why.

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Speaker 1: For everyone might be different? Yeah, Now, so for our listeners,

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Speaker 1: and about forty percent of our listeners are overseas, so

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Speaker 1: about sixty percent are Aussies, and so the nearly half

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Speaker 1: of our listeners who don't know what we're talking about

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Speaker 1: when we're saying something horrible happened in Australia, you might

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Speaker 1: have heard about it. But yesterday, and for my Aussie listeners,

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Speaker 1: sorry for the replay for the million at the time,

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Speaker 1: But yesterday there was a terrorist attack. Yesterday being Sunday,

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Speaker 1: the fourteenth of December in Australia, there was a terrorist

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Speaker 1: attack where a bunch of people at a Jewish festival

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Speaker 1: or Jewish celebration Hannuka. Sixteen people I think as we record,

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Speaker 1: were killed, and somewhere up around as that forty people

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Speaker 1: were injured. I think somewhere in the ballpark and so

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Speaker 1: that's you know, for a country that is very, very

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Speaker 1: very anti guns. And obviously it was two gun men.

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Speaker 1: I didn't say that it was two gunmen. And so

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Speaker 1: it's just been a it's been a lot, and we're

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Speaker 1: not used to this stuff. We're not used to this.

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Speaker 1: So it's been all over the media. It's been NonStop,

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Speaker 1: and I had to turn off for Telly, Like I

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Speaker 1: watched quite a bit, but I just went, I can't

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Speaker 1: keep watching because there's no real ess and I'm not

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Speaker 1: putting my head in the sand. I know what's going on.

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Speaker 1: I'm not pretending it didn't happen. It makes me sad,

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Speaker 1: it makes me all the things that makes me a

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Speaker 1: bit angry, It makes me all those normal human emotional

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Speaker 1: and psychological reactions that I would think most, if not all,

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Speaker 1: of you had a version of also. But I guess

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Speaker 1: so you and I probably felt very similar. We had

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Speaker 1: a chat on the phone before we started recording, but

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Speaker 1: I guess I wanted to talk today a little bit

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Speaker 1: about so a lot of things that happened to us

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Speaker 1: and around us, you know, as we just navigate life.

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Speaker 1: We didn't choose and we didn't want and obviously none

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Speaker 1: of us chose this or wanted this, and just you know,

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Speaker 1: as a country, and of course more importantly for the

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Speaker 1: people themselves that were hurt or killed and their families.

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Speaker 1: But how do we I guess there's no three step

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Speaker 1: plan to react to hard things? You know, how long

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Speaker 1: do we allow ourselves to ah, you know, feel what

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Speaker 1: we feel? I guess there's no number, And that's maybe

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Speaker 1: a dumb question. But do we also need to realize

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Speaker 1: that we've got to then practically move forward? Doc Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm sad, I'm angry, I'm anxious, I'm a bit scared,

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Speaker 1: I'm all the things. How long can we sit in that?

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Speaker 2: Well? I feel like right now it's it's really not

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Speaker 2: about how do we cope and fix and move on?

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Speaker 2: I mean, in relation to what's going on here, it's.

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Speaker 1: Very fresh, yet it's not twenty four hours as we record.

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Speaker 2: It's really like, how do we give ourselves permission to

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Speaker 2: feel the way that we're feeling and keep putting one

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Speaker 2: foot in front of the other, but maybe in a

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Speaker 2: way that it's more gentle and soothing and grounding and

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Speaker 2: that feels safe and and you know, I think for me,

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Speaker 2: and I think in general, having people around you that

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Speaker 2: you love and like, you know, the key relationships, you know,

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Speaker 2: being able to talk to them or be with them

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Speaker 2: or or you know, hug each other. I think that's

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Speaker 2: really come for that's certainly comforting for me. I think

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Speaker 2: that's really how we get through tough things. A lot

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Speaker 2: of the time is with other people. So and like

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Speaker 2: you were saying, you don't want to like inundate yourself

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Speaker 2: with news, I think that that can be really I

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Speaker 2: think what like what happens when we have an event

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Speaker 2: like yesterday, which it's like, it's so horrible to say,

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Speaker 2: but you were saying, like we're not used to this,

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Speaker 2: and like no one should be used to this. Yes,

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Speaker 2: but we but we really aren't. Yes, and it really

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Speaker 2: rocks your sense of safety even though it's unusual.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And so like.

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Speaker 2: It's okay, I guess, you know, I think it's okay

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Speaker 2: to feel like that sense of you know, I'm being

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Speaker 2: unsettled and feeling unsafe and be wanting to cocoon a

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Speaker 2: little bit. And I think I think that it's I

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Speaker 2: think it's okay to give yourself permission to do like

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Speaker 2: just routine things around your home, around the people that

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Speaker 2: you love, and not and like you said, be informed,

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Speaker 2: but you don't need to like watch every second of

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Speaker 2: every news thing and just ground yourself as much as possible.

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Speaker 2: But yes, it's very reasonable. I feel really shitty today.

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Speaker 2: I know a lot of other people feel that way.

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Speaker 2: And on top of that, there's you know, the closer

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Speaker 2: you are probably to that area, you're going to feel

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Speaker 2: more even more anxious. And it makes sense to feel

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Speaker 2: that way, even thinking about going to bond Aid. Like

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Speaker 2: for me, like it's you know, like I have a

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Speaker 2: nephew coming to visit in March and I was like

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Speaker 2: one of you know, I was like, oh gosh, you know,

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Speaker 2: like that's one of the places it was just and

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Speaker 2: you know, recently with my mother, and it's such a beautiful,

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Speaker 2: iconic place and you don't think of it as you

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Speaker 2: don't think of any place in Australia's unsafe, but kind

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Speaker 2: of that, those are just our immediate kind of reactions

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Speaker 2: to things, you know, and it makes sense to have

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Speaker 2: those immediate reactions. And I think like anything that's really

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Speaker 2: tough and hard and that we hate that you know,

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Speaker 2: shouldn't happen. And you know, the unfair things that happen

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Speaker 2: in life that really you can't do anything about and

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Speaker 2: you can't control. It's just yeah, it's a sense of yeah,

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Speaker 2: real sadness and grief about that, but also like you

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Speaker 2: still everything's the world still turns. Things still, you know, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing that we get the next day and

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Speaker 1: things are still happening. For me, I'm like, I'm quite empathetic,

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Speaker 1: so it it. You know, I heard a mum talking

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Speaker 1: about her little girl and that was it just tears

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Speaker 1: and stuff and three year old little girl called Gigi

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Speaker 1: or something. And anyway, I'm I'm listening to that and

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Speaker 1: I'm sad and I'm crying that I'm listening to other

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Speaker 1: people and I'm trying to and then somebody sent me

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Speaker 1: some footage which I wish they didn't send me, but

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Speaker 1: it was just horrendous. Anyway, Like an idiot, I just

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Speaker 1: went watched this what's this? And I played it? So

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Speaker 1: that didn't help. And I mean, at the same time,

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Speaker 1: I want to be aware, I want to be informed,

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Speaker 1: I want to care, but I also know at the

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Speaker 1: same time I can't do anything to change it or

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Speaker 1: undo what's been done. And so I like, as a

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Speaker 1: student of human behavior literally and you know, just experientially

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Speaker 1: out in the field. I'm really interested in just what

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Speaker 1: happened now, Like, and you know, the fear and even

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Speaker 1: the paranoia and the outrage and all of those things,

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Speaker 1: I totally understand. Yeah, And I'm not saying people shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be outraged or you know, I think what we do

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Speaker 1: next practically really matters and how you know, because jumping

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Speaker 1: up and down and being mad is totally understandable, but

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Speaker 1: it probably doesn't move the needle in a positive way

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Speaker 1: on anything, right, So I just think, you know, what

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Speaker 1: happens next, And I also think, like I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about this this morning, and I'm like, I personally, in

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Speaker 1: my whole life, I've never ever, in my whole life

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Speaker 1: tried to hurt anyone physically ever in my life who

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Speaker 1: wasn't already trying to hurt me, right, so somebody was

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Speaker 1: trying to punch me in the face or something, which

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Speaker 1: you know, I worked in pubs and did security for years,

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Speaker 1: but you know, so I've been in a few scuffles

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Speaker 1: in my life and all of that, but every time

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Speaker 1: defending myself and not you know, but the the standalone

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Speaker 1: objective of killing people. But that's what they set out

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Speaker 1: to do just kill humans that they don't know. It's

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Speaker 1: both disgusting and in a way fascinating, not good fascinating,

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Speaker 1: like terrible fascinating. But part of me thinks we can't

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Speaker 1: overcome what we don't understand, and obviously the shooting is

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Speaker 1: the byproduct of some kind of weird, fucked up thinking

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Speaker 1: and mindset and ideology and beliefs, and like, I'm curious

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Speaker 1: about that. I'm curious about what drives these people. Not

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Speaker 1: so of course that I want to on any level

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Speaker 1: a line or condone, of course, but I want to

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Speaker 1: understand why they are the way they are, so we

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Speaker 1: can deal with that before we get to what we

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Speaker 1: got to yesterday. You know, you think about this like

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Speaker 1: you and I live in a world where, on a

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Speaker 1: pretty regular basis, a teenager will put on a vest

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Speaker 1: with explosives and happily, probably nervously, but happily go and

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Speaker 1: blow himself and civilians up, usually him, in the belief

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Speaker 1: that they are doing something good and noble. You know

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Speaker 1: that happens at the same time as somebody in Brighton

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Speaker 1: is getting a skinny latte at the pantry and ordering porridge.

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Speaker 1: You know, somewhere else in the world, someone's been so

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Speaker 1: indoctrinated that they And also to think about the reality

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Speaker 1: that evil people who do evil things don't think they're evil. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like they don't think people who do bad shit think

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Speaker 1: they're doing good shit, like they have a story. It's

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Speaker 1: like every religion thinks all the other religions are wrong.

401
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,239
Speaker 1: You know, there is not one religion that thinks that

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Speaker 1: they're wrong. Everyone's every political party thinks every other party

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Speaker 1: or idiots. Like, it's just we live in an echo chamber,

404
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Speaker 1: all of us individuals and collectively like our own echo chambers.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, Wow, when people grow up indoctrinated with

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Speaker 1: evil ideologies, that's what you get.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think for me, Craig, it's like when something

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Speaker 2: like this happens, I don't care about that yet, you

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Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like in the immediate aftermath, I

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Speaker 2: don't care why these people did what they did. They

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Speaker 2: like there's no good reason, Like there's no like I

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Speaker 2: know that you know that there's no good reason either.

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Speaker 2: I'm noting that you do, but but like there's no

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Speaker 2: justifiable reason or like the reason that's going to make

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Speaker 2: sense or any you know, like and that's probably why

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Speaker 2: I'm not a forensic psychologist because I just I don't

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Speaker 2: want to work with people who do bad things intentionally, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then feel like there's some kind of justification for

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Speaker 2: it when there really isn't. So yeah, I totally get

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Speaker 2: like we do need to understand because we need that's

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Speaker 2: the way of prevention, right, you understand what you can prevent.

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Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not ready to have that conversation because

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Speaker 2: it's maybe it's just it's too soon. But maybe I'm

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Speaker 2: maybe I'm not the right person either, because like you know,

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Speaker 2: like you know, when you see like the footage of

426
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: and you know, I maybe people would be surprised by

427
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 2: this because I'm a psychologist, but like when you see

428
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 2: the footage of that man who was able to get

429
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 2: the arrest to get the gun away from the other man,

430
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: and he showed like the restraint he showed by not

431
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 2: doing anything with that gun, I'm like, I don't know

432
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 2: if I would be able to show that level of

433
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 2: a restraint. That's that's to me amazing. But yeah, I just,

434
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 2: of course, you know, like that's saying everything happens for

435
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 2: a reason. I don't believe that in the way that

436
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 2: people usually mean it. Yes, So like it's usually meant

437
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 2: as you know, if a bad thing happens, you'll find

438
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 2: out what the reason is in the future kind of thing, yes, right,

439
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 2: and some kind of destiny or fate or something. You know,

440
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: there's a something in effect that's creating a reality that

441
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: you don't know about yet whatever. I don't believe in

442
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 2: that because I just think some things are just unfair

443
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 2: and wrong and things shit happens, and it doesn't mean

444
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: that something good's going to come acce it.

445
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 1: On agree, And I think that that very pragmatical real

446
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: world thinking is that of course we don't want that

447
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: to be the world we live in, but well we

448
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: now know that is well we knew that before, but

449
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: this is the world. Like, bad things happen to good people. Yeah,

450
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 1: bad things happen to children, you know, Terrible things happen

451
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,479
Speaker 1: around the world. Life is not fair. Life does not

452
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: give a fuck about your feelings or your emotional state.

453
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: You know, this is This is not negativity, This is reality.

454
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: This is practicality. And so you know, we want to

455
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: be compassionate and kind and loving and we want to

456
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: support the people that are going through this. And I

457
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: reckon I've hugged about ten people today who are upset

458
00:28:54,720 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: and and I'm upset, but yeah, I'm very much. I

459
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: want to understand this fucking evil yeah, so that we

460
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: can do something about it. But anyway, and that's what.

461
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 2: I was going to say, though, Craig, I was going

462
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: to say that everything happens for a reason. In the

463
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 2: other direction, we need to understand what the reasons are

464
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: that led up to it. Yes, right, that's so I

465
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 2: think everything happens for a reason. Yes, there are reasons.

466
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 2: We might not understand or know what the reasons are

467
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 2: as of now, or we might never understand. But that

468
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that there weren't things that led up to it,

469
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: and they might not be reasonable reasons, they're just reasons,

470
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 2: whereas the other way is just magical things.

471
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean everything happens for a reason, but that's

472
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: not to say that that's good, like it's like, well,

473
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: doesn't justify it.

474
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

475
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. And for people who think, you know, it's like,

476
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: are there aren't evil people. People are all kind of

477
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: genetically predetermined and it's biochemistry of the of course all

478
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: of those things play a role and therein but there

479
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: are evil people who do evil shit. That's what that's

480
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: my philosophy anyway, and I think you don't need I

481
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: don't think that's a big stretch to believe that. Hey,

482
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: let's park that conversation because I don't want to make

483
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: everyone sad for an hour. So let's let's just put

484
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: a little bow on that and say, to all those

485
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: people who were affected directly or indirectly by what happened

486
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: at Bondio, you know we're sending you love and kind

487
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: of best wishes and all the vibes. And I know

488
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean much, but if intention counts, well, then

489
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: you know there's some love coming from here. And yeah,

490
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: let's hope that that doesn't happen again ever in Australia.

491
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: I don't like my chances of that, but let's hope

492
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: that we don't have to deal with that in the

493
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: near future or the distant future. Let's hope that doesn't

494
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:59,239
Speaker 1: happen again. All right, let's talk about something that's a

495
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: bit of a left Okay, I want I wanted to Okay,

496
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: so let's shake shake that heaviness off for a moment.

497
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about the difference between

498
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: pursuing happiness or success or fulfillment or getting that internal

499
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: state if you had to describe before I ask the question,

500
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: if you had to describe the internal state that people

501
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: most typically want, Yeah, what is that state? Missus psychologist?

502
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: Well, you know you just said it. Everybody wants to

503
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 2: be happy, right, I think what they really want is contentment. Yeah,

504
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 2: they say happy often.

505
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: Is contentment the same as the absence of anxiety? No?

506
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think maybe people think that.

507
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 3: It is is that just calm, Like what's the what's

508
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 3: the the opposite of anxiety then, because it seems like

509
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 3: the main melais or emotional melais for people is anxiety

510
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 3: or something in the stress, anxiety, overthinking in a chaos space.

511
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, what would be the opposite? The opposite could be

512
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 2: what you said, calm, relaxation, lack of tension. But if

513
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 2: we went extreme opposite, maybe it is contentment. Although I

514
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 2: feel like contentment is more about no matter how you're

515
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 2: feeling or what's going on in your life, yes, that

516
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 2: you still feel internally okay, like oh not necessarily like emotionally,

517
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 2: but like you know who you are, you know what

518
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 2: you stand for, you know what your values are, Like

519
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 2: that level of contentment, like you know that whatever happens,

520
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: you'll be able to cope. So you still might feel

521
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:09,719
Speaker 2: anxious at times, like because that's just human experience, But overall,

522
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 2: there's a feeling of contentment, like an inner kind of

523
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 2: an inner piece that you have.

524
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: I feel like contentment is a state of enoughness. You know,

525
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: I have enough mentally, emotionally, financially, practically, like I've got enough.

526
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: It's all right. I don't need more. If I have more,

527
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: I do. If I don't, I don't, it doesn't really matter,

528
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: like I am, but I think.

529
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 2: Don't need more or don't want more?

530
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: Well, I think they're different, and I think like the

531
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: he's he's a curly question. I've asked a few people

532
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: over the years. Can we be simultaneously content that is

533
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: relatively happy but also ambitious? Yeah, because I feel like

534
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: I'm both, like, which sounds like you can't be because

535
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: they seem at opposite ends of the continuum. But like,

536
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: if I found out that all I'm ever going to

537
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: have or do or be or create or achieve is

538
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: what I already have, I would feel quite content because

539
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: I think I've done Okay. Yeah, I don't think I'm

540
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: a superstar, but I wouldn't feel like, oh fuck, I've

541
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: been an abject failure in my whole life. I wouldn't

542
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: be miserable, you know. But at the same time I

543
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: can go I have gratitude. My life is good, my

544
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: relationships are good, my health is good, touch wood, my career,

545
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 1: all of those things, like I'm really really call it fortunate, blessed, whatever.

546
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: But in the middle of that, I'm very grateful also

547
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: and innother breaking news, I have goals.

548
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's yeah. I actually So this makes me

549
00:34:54,880 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 2: think I don't think contentment is about enoughness. I think

550
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: it might be more about acceptance, acceptance of yourself fully.

551
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: What does that mean?

552
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 2: So not so okay, So this makes me think of

553
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 2: we might have talked about this in the past, but

554
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 2: there's this woman named Marshall Nahan, and she developed this

555
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 2: whole program like treatment. But one of the things that

556
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: she talks about is how for everyone, every something, there's

557
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 2: an opposite thing, yes, And one of the main examples

558
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 2: of that is acceptance and change. So we so we

559
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 2: The idea of it is you can accept yourself fully

560
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 2: and at the same time know that you can do

561
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 2: better right and change yes, right, And even though that

562
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 2: seems opposite to each other and that you can't be

563
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 2: both at the same time. The reality is that you

564
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 2: can have both the same time, and that we often

565
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: think in opposites, but that doesn't actually reflect reality. It's

566
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 2: like just a simplistic view or a perspective that we

567
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 2: take to make things seem more I guess simple. But

568
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 2: the reality is it's a lot more complex than that.

569
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 2: So for you to say like, I'm content and I

570
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 2: have goals and I want, you know, and I'm ambitious

571
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 2: to me, doesn't seem wrong or like it seems like no,

572
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 2: you can you can have both. Yes, it's a dialectic,

573
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 2: that's what she calls that, a dialectic. So, yeah, because

574
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 2: I feel the same. I feel like I'm a fairly

575
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 2: content person and I am ambitious as well. I like

576
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: to do lots of things, and I'm working towards lots

577
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: of things. And do I have to know? I don't

578
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 2: have to. I don't have to. If I don't do

579
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:58,720
Speaker 2: those things, I'll still feel content.

580
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. And what about I'm thinking, I was just thinking

581
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: about Acceptance Commitment Therapy ACT. Do you know? Do you

582
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: know much about that?

583
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 2: I do? Yes, it's actually very aligned with Lenihan's work,

584
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 2: which hers is. Her therapy is called DBT, so dialectical

585
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 2: behavior therapy. They're very very similar.

586
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: So explain to us what act is.

587
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 2: So Acceptance and commitment therapy basically is about understanding that

588
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 2: your internal experiences are valid and reasonable, and that you

589
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 2: can still no matter what those experiences are, whether they're

590
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 2: distressing or pleasant or unpleasant, that you can still move

591
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 2: towards your values. You can still move towards your goals

592
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 2: via your values.

593
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: Yes, So.

594
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 2: It's they differentiate themselves from cognitive behavioral therapy because cognitive

595
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 2: behavioral therapy, the cognitive part is about understanding what your

596
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 2: thoughts are and the patterns of thoughts that you have

597
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 2: and then modifying them. Right, So we might say, like

598
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 2: you have black and white thinking, so let's modify that,

599
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 2: let's make that more realistic, and then you practice that

600
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: new thought and then over time that becomes your new

601
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 2: way of thinking. That's cognitive behavioral therapy, where acceptance and

602
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: commitment therapy will say, well, we have you know, we

603
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: have lots of thoughts and some of them are you know,

604
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 2: not particularly helpful or healthy, but we don't really need

605
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 2: to attach ourselves to our thoughts. Thoughts are just experiences

606
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,720
Speaker 2: that we have. We can just accept them that they happen,

607
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: we can identify them and then choose to continue to

608
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 2: move towards our goals because we're attending more to our

609
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 2: values rather than all of these internal experiences that we

610
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 2: might be having. So it's kind of a different way, say,

611
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 2: like an acceptance pathway to better mental health, whereas cognitive

612
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: therapy is more change pathway to better mental health. And

613
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 2: I think both are useful, and both both are evidence

614
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 2: based and both can help, and I use both with

615
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 2: my clients. And DBT is kind of both DBT, So

616
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 2: DBT has the change skills in it and it also

617
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 2: has the acceptance skills in it. So that's I do

618
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 2: actually tend to gravitate towards DBT's perspective and way of

619
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: thinking about things because I think it encompasses both really well,

620
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 2: and it gives people. It gives people options to in

621
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: terms of how like how their mind works, what they

622
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 2: think suits them, would they prefer to be Does it

623
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 2: make more sense for them to accept all of their

624
00:39:55,120 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 2: thoughts and emotions, or does it make more sen sense

625
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 2: to maybe be more analytical and and modify and change.

626
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 2: And because of both work. You know, they have a

627
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 2: good they have choices and options. So what do you

628
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 2: think would look better for you?

629
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 1: Uh? Maybe act Maybe I was just going to say

630
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,879
Speaker 1: something that well, I think I noticed about me when

631
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 1: I was younger, which I think I've kind of figured out.

632
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: But so I don't know what the actual term for

633
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 1: this is. I call it destination disappointment. And it's when

634
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 1: you get where you wanted to go and you don't

635
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: have the experience you thought you'd have. Yeah, and obviously

636
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: it could be I guess a geographic location, but I'm

637
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: talking more metaphorically. Yeah, and that very real part of

638
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 1: the human experience where wherever, where we're at, it's not

639
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: where we want to be. Yeah, Like very few people go,

640
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: you know what, my job awesome. I don't want any

641
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 1: more money. I don't want to change anything or my

642
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: you know, it's my body. I'm happy with my body.

643
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 1: It's great. I don't need to be any more of

644
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: this or any less of that. I'm fully locked in

645
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: and content. And it's like this idea that this is

646
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: where I am and this is where I want to

647
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: be with whatever component of our existence. It could be

648
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 1: fitness or health or career or money, or relationships or whatever.

649
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: It could be a myriad of things. It could be

650
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 1: my spiritual journey. Right, this is where I am, and

651
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 1: that's where I want to be. And I know that

652
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: when I move from this place and I get to

653
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: that place, there's an underlying belief that there will be

654
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: some kind of with the practical change and shift, there

655
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: will be some correlated internal shift, like I'll be like

656
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: nobody thinks. Nobody sets a goal because they want to

657
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: be less happy or less content or or more anxious.

658
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: I think most peopleeople you know, when you just talk

659
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: to them, they assume that, well, when I achieved that

660
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: own that earn that look like that way that do

661
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: that create that achieve that, then I am going to be,

662
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: you know, whatever the appropriate inner state is. And then

663
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: we get there. And I did that, and I like

664
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: what many times with many things, like first time was

665
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: when I got in great shape, only to realize I

666
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: was still an overthinking, insecure, fucking attention seeking twenty twenty

667
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,760
Speaker 1: year old, Like I was just the fat, insecure kid

668
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: in a different vehicle, like I just like I'd renovated

669
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: my body, but my emotions and thoughts and feelings and

670
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 1: they were essentially like carryover from six years before when

671
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: I was the fattest kid at school. So you know,

672
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 1: and that's not to say one caused the other, but

673
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: you could have this this really good, healthy, functional, strong,

674
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: maybe even attractive physike, but no positive correlated experience on

675
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 1: the inside, you know. And then and then so I'm like.

676
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 4: Well, fuck, if I get bigger arms then, you know,

677
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 4: or if I get less fat, or if I get

678
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 4: better abs, or if I train my fucking shoulders, I

679
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 4: get whiter shoulders, or I do you know, all of

680
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 4: these dumb stories that are all focusing on creating some

681
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,399
Speaker 4: external change to produce some internal experience.

682
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: And I did the work, but the actual rationale was flawed,

683
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: so I never created the experience. Or like with my business,

684
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: when my business became quite successful, which is of course,

685
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: you know, of itself, it's not a bad thing. But

686
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 1: I think my underlying thought was, you know, when I

687
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: have quite a bit of dough and I've got a

688
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: good house and I've got a good car, and I'm

689
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 1: not poor anymore, or because I spent a fair bit

690
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: of my life poor, and you go, and it's not

691
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: that I was rich, but it's like, well, I got

692
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 1: to the point where you're not poor. Now you can

693
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: buy stuff, you can own stuff, you can travel, you

694
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: can you want that motorbike, go buy that motorbike. Like

695
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: you can do stuff. And that's funny. In the middle

696
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: of that, I'm like, oh, and I think realizing that

697
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: I had this flawed belief system that when I arrived

698
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: at a certain place financially or professionally, or esthetically or

699
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: biologically or whatever it was, there would be some absolute

700
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 1: positive correlated experience. And I went, oh, fuck, So I

701
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: had to, you know, go back to the start of

702
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: the book and start researching and thinking again, Yeah, that.

703
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 2: Makes me think of so many different things we just said.

704
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 2: I think that that is really I think. I think

705
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 2: we all do that to some extent. A lot of

706
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 2: people try to change external factors, yes, and expect internal

707
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 2: change to come along with that, rather than the other

708
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 2: way around. And I think both at the same time

709
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 2: is probably the best way of going about it. But

710
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes we're changing external factors for like we're

711
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 2: trying to like maybe reach a level of contentment and

712
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 2: acceptance and fulfillment. But what we're actually doing is is

713
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 2: trying to create safety and security.

714
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: Yes, right, Like.

715
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 2: You're wanting other people to accept you by changing your

716
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 2: external self. You want to accept yourself as well, But

717
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 2: maybe that's not what you were really working on. You

718
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 2: were working on how other people see cent.

719
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: And then do you think about, sorry, you think about

720
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,240
Speaker 1: when we're talking about goals or when I talk about,

721
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,800
Speaker 1: you know, sitting goals. Creating a process with people, We

722
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: kind of really dumb it down and we go, what

723
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 1: do you want? Why do you want it? But how

724
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 1: are you going to get it? And when are you

725
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: going to start this? So it's what, why?

726
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 2: What? Why?

727
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: How? When? Right? Really simple? And then we go and

728
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: then you break it down. It's like, well, what I

729
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,439
Speaker 1: want to do is I want to lose thirty K's cool,

730
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: Well that's not a bad goal because you're overweight, so

731
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: that's that's good and let's not get too wrapped up

732
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: in that. But cool, So why, well I want to

733
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: be lighter? Yeah I know that.

734
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 2: Why?

735
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: Oh well, And then you get through and it's want

736
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: to be I want to be more attractive to somebody,

737
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 1: or I want to find a partner, or I want

738
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 1: better self esteem, or I want to like myself more,

739
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: or I don't want to be socially clunky, or I

740
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: don't want to be embarrassed to take my shirt off

741
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: in front of anyone, or you know, whatever it is.

742
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 1: And then okay, why do you want that? Well, get

743
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 1: down to a lot of It's like, I want to

744
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 1: be loved. I want someone to love me. I want

745
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: to be accepted. I want you know. So I was

746
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 1: always trying to get approval and acceptance and love through

747
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: how I looked, because I always got rejected for how

748
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 1: I looked. So I'm like, well, the solution to this

749
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: rejection is I get a body that doesn't get rejected.

750
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: So when I have the opposite of what I had,

751
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: so that fat body got me rejected and socially isolated

752
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 1: and no one was interested in me romantically or physically. Right,

753
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: So what I need to do is I need to

754
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: go get the opposite of this current version and bibbity

755
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: bobby boo, all that horrible shit will go away. Well

756
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: it didn't though, you know, but it was. It wasn't

757
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: the worst logic, I mean, as it turns out, but

758
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: coming from that experience when my relationship, like I went, oh,

759
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: well this is how I look and as a result,

760
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 1: this is how I get treated. The answer is don't

761
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: look like this. It's for a fourteen year old. It's

762
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 1: kind of a logical step.

763
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 2: It is. No, it is definitely. I think the other

764
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 2: thing is that you you know, in terms of what

765
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 2: you were saying, there's a difference between values and goals,

766
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 2: and I don't think people necessarily know the difference, and

767
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 2: that can I think if you're not clear about that,

768
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 2: then you tend to move towards maybe goals that aren't

769
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 2: serving you.

770
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: I think also people want the thing that like I

771
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: didn't really want weight loss I brought or I didn't

772
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 1: want to. I mean, I wanted a great body, but

773
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: really what I wanted was what I thought the great

774
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: body would do. Yeah, what I thought it would give me.

775
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, what do you want it in

776
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: three grand a week or five grand a week, all five? Well,

777
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 1: it's not about the money. It's about what you think

778
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 1: you can get or do or change your create will

779
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: be with the money. It's always like the goal is

780
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,280
Speaker 1: always the conduit to the thing that you really want.

781
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: So it's not really your goal, it's just the mechanism.

782
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: It's just the pathway. And so but the assumption is

783
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 1: sometimes we get it, we take that path and we

784
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: get where we wanted to go. We go, oh, fuck,

785
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: it's the wrong path. Well, fuck, I climbed the wrong mountain.

786
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: It's that mountain over there.

787
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 2: True. I think having some clarity about what your needs

788
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 2: are before you put your goals in place is so important.

789
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,760
Speaker 2: I think people like, we have so many different needs.

790
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 2: Maybe we don't even think about them as needs, but like, yes,

791
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 2: you have social needs and relationship needs and survival needs

792
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 2: and safety needs and you know, fulfillment needs and all

793
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 2: of these different things, and you know they're not all

794
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 2: going to be met, so and they'll all be met

795
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 2: at different degrees as well, you know. So I have

796
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 2: sometimes I have these clarity sessions with my clients and

797
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 2: we start with with the needs questionnaire and they just rate,

798
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,399
Speaker 2: you know, the level that they that they're being met,

799
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 2: and then from that in the different categories, and then

800
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,280
Speaker 2: from that you can kind of get a sense of like, oh,

801
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:24,359
Speaker 2: what areas are there where they're the most unmet needs? Yeah,

802
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 2: and then then you've got a place where you can

803
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 2: start creating goals that make sense and actually know what

804
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 2: they're trying to achieve from those goals from the beginning. Yeah, Yes, And.

805
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry going no, I was going to say, sorry,

806
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 1: did you ever see that movie? I'm just looking it

807
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,320
Speaker 1: up right now. Yeah, it's called Into the Wild.

808
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, Into the Wild? Was that the one where he

809
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 2: goes and he lives in a bus?

810
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I fucking love that movie. And I didn't

811
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: know any thing about it, and I went with some

812
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 1: friends and and I'm like, ah, this is going to

813
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 1: be boring, and I think it was pretty long, and

814
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: and yeah, two thousand and seven. If you haven't seen

815
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: this movie, I don't want to ruin it for you everybody,

816
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: but you know, in the in fact, put your fingers

817
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: in your ear for the next year, for the next

818
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: thirty seconds if you don't want to spoiler alert. So

819
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 1: just it's called Into the Wild. It's directed by Sean Penn,

820
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: and it's based on John Crackour's book about Christopher mccandle's

821
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 1: or McCandless I think it is. But remember like he

822
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,399
Speaker 1: just wanted to be out in nature and da da da,

823
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 1: and he kind of finally figured out, I know, we

824
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: all just need people like you can't like we're not

825
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: an island. And yeah, I really that quite affected me

826
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 1: that movie, and he rejected he rejected modernity, and he

827
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:04,320
Speaker 1: rejected you know, possessions and money and social expectations and yeah, yeah, yeah,

828
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 1: so yeah.

829
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 2: That was the fact he went to my university.

830
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: Oh did he?

831
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,800
Speaker 2: I didn't know him. I'm not saying that I didn't.

832
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 2: I don't know what year he was. He probably didn't

833
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 2: go to school at the same time I was there.

834
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, but yeah, I found that out. Yeah that

835
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,280
Speaker 2: was a really moving and it stays with you that movie.

836
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a great That was a great film.

837
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 1: I was talking to somebody. I don't know when it was,

838
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: it was last week, I can't remember the day, but

839
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 1: they said to me, like if if I was going

840
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 1: to We were talking about just their life and you know,

841
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: where you go, you know, people seem to keep making

842
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 1: the same mistakes or they're in a kind of a

843
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: groundhog day of bad behaviors and habits and rituals, and

844
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: and they're like, what's the best question that I can

845
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 1: ask myself? Oh, like, there's a million, right, But I said,

846
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 1: here's a pretty good question if you ask it and

847
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 1: you explore it and you answer it and then you

848
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 1: do something about it. And the question is is what

849
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: I'm doing working? Right? You can apply that to your food,

850
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: your lifestyle, your sleep, your business, your relationships. And I'm like,

851
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: because there are so many things that we do on

852
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 1: autopilot that aren't working. Now, I know that seems overly simplistic,

853
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: but I said to him. He actually went and got

854
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: a serviette. We're at the Hamptons, and I go, so,

855
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 1: write this question, is what I'm doing working? And then

856
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 1: I gave him kind of fifteen areas of the human experience.

857
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 1: I said, so apply that question to all of these

858
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: different areas of your life, and then you could spend

859
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: a week working on that. You could you know, well,

860
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 1: what am I currently doing in regards to my health?

861
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 1: What am I doing that's not working?

862
00:53:58,400 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 2: Well?

863
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,320
Speaker 1: There are three things? Cool? What are the things great?

864
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 1: No judgment, no self loathing, just awareness, awareness and courage

865
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:09,760
Speaker 1: and honesty. Cool. Now regarding those three things that aren't working,

866
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 1: what could you do better? What is the solution?

867
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 2: Now?

868
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 1: Regarding that? What's one thing that you will do, will do,

869
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 1: not hope to do, might do one thing that you

870
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 1: will do, and then we you know, then we go

871
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: through that for career, and then we go through that

872
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: for perhaps you know, nutrition, or then we go through

873
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 1: that for whatever it is, right, and I said, look

874
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:34,439
Speaker 1: at the end of that, you're going to have such

875
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 1: a fucking gigantic to do list that you won't know

876
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 1: where to start. Don't let that be a reason to

877
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 1: not start. So then once we get that kind of

878
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 1: that framework and that awareness and that acknowledgment, now then

879
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: I want you to pick the five things that you

880
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 1: really need to do. Don't don't throw the rest out,

881
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: but let's just focus on, you know, creating some momentum

882
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: and moving the needle on a few things. And I'm

883
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,919
Speaker 1: not talking about let's run a marriag fun in three weeks,

884
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:05,320
Speaker 1: so let's build an empire by fucking February. I'm just saying,

885
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 1: let's start to move the needle. If you had to

886
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 1: ask somebody like one of those kinds of questions, that

887
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 1: might really give context too. And what I like about

888
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 1: those kinds of questions is they're really broadly relevant. You

889
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: can almost ask it about. Do you have a similar

890
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: one that you ask people?

891
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a few, like you. I think one

892
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:36,400
Speaker 2: of them is again, like you said, it's super simple,

893
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 2: but what is important to you, Like, what's actually important

894
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:40,759
Speaker 2: to you?

895
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: Does that kind of coincide with what are my values?

896
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:46,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's the same pretty much the same question.

897
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 2: And then the second one would be what's getting in

898
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 2: the way? What are the obstacles? Because I think that's

899
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 2: what people go around in circles because they're not actually

900
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,279
Speaker 2: they don't know why they can and then they just

901
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 2: judge themselves and they just say something like their self

902
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 2: sabotaging or something that's very broad and vague, and it's like, well,

903
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 2: that's not going to actually help you remove an obstacle

904
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 2: by labeling yourself. You actually have to know what they

905
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 2: are and so you can do something specific about them.

906
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 2: And then in terms of obstacles, then I will get

907
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:28,279
Speaker 2: them to think about well them in terms of categories,

908
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 2: because I think there's so many different kinds of obstacles.

909
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 2: So what are the emotional obstacles, what are the thoughts

910
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 2: getting in the way, what are the behaviors getting in

911
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:42,359
Speaker 2: the way, what are the relationships getting in the way,

912
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 2: and what are the circumstances that could be getting in

913
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,919
Speaker 2: the way. And I think that that like those two

914
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 2: questions like what's important to you and what's getting in

915
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 2: the way, can lead to what you're saying it's like, okay,

916
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 2: if I have. If I have, then I can kind

917
00:56:58,320 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 2: of well, what's important to me? Then I know what

918
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 2: my goals and my values and goals are. And then well,

919
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:06,280
Speaker 2: if I'm not I haven't been able to reach my goals,

920
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 2: then I really need some clarity about what's getting in

921
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,319
Speaker 2: the way. And if I look at them in those

922
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 2: five categories, I'll be able to figure out, well, what

923
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 2: are the main things. Is it because I'm telling myself

924
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 2: that I can't or my definition of success is very

925
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 2: black and white, or is it anxiety, you know, and

926
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 2: fear that's getting in the way, or is it do

927
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 2: I have people in my life that are actually creating difficulties? Yes,

928
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 2: for however however they might be doing that. Are they

929
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 2: putting are they putting blocks up? Or do I have

930
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 2: too many things on my plate and I can't do

931
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 2: it because of the relationships and the circumstances, Or there

932
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,439
Speaker 2: might be other circumstances like you know, I'm a care

933
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 2: and I don't have time, or I have an injury,

934
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 2: or you know, like there's there's so many different circumstance,

935
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 2: financial circumstance things again in the way, Because it's quite

936
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 2: a validating process too, So it's saying, like, you know,

937
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 2: there are real reasons. It's not just about you being

938
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 2: a person who can't do it. You know.

939
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 1: It's not an exercise in self loathing. It's self aware, Yeah, exactly,

940
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 1: it's self reflection. It's and I think it's okay to go, well,

941
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:29,439
Speaker 1: i've got a really sore ankle, I can't run, of course, cool,

942
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 1: So what can you do though? Oh yeah, okay, what

943
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,919
Speaker 1: can you do? Also I've got no money. I can't

944
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 1: join a gym. That's cool. You don't need money to

945
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 1: be able to move your body or you know, whatever

946
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 1: it is. And it's not we're not trying to throw

947
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 1: anyone under the bus, but I think that, you know,

948
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: like if I had two hundred people in a room,

949
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 1: and I've done a version of this probably over a

950
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: thousand times, and I say, put up your hand if

951
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 1: there's something about you or your life or your lifestyle

952
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 1: or your body or your outcomes something, don't overthink it,

953
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 1: just be that you want to change that you want

954
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 1: to change, and every hand goes up. Of course, I go,

955
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 1: now put up your hand if there's multiple things, and

956
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: every hand goes up. And because life happens around us

957
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 1: and despite us and to us, you know, and it's

958
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 1: like life happens anyway. You can be a passenger in

959
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:20,959
Speaker 1: your own life. You can. You can blink your eyes

960
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 1: and it's fucking three years later, and you're telling yourself

961
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 1: the same stories and you've still got the same intentions

962
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 1: and the same plans and the same ideas, but you're

963
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 1: still doing the same dumb shit, which is keeping you

964
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 1: trapped in a psychological, emotional, physiological, clinical groundhog day because

965
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 1: you're not actually doing anything to get out of those

966
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 1: patterns and rituals that are keeping you trapped. So you know,

967
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 1: and this is a real exercise size in self awareness

968
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 1: and to go listen, my life ain't going to fix itself.

969
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 1: My health, my immune system, my shitty posture, my fucking

970
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 1: overthinking mind. Like that's not going to just one day

971
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 1: be better. I need to do some work and I

972
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 1: need to identify one, what are the things that I

973
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 1: need to or want to change? In two what is

974
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 1: the work that I need to do?

975
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I love that that right versus effective thing,

976
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 2: like like I use that all the time with my clients.

977
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 2: I think it's so so haigh And for myself. And

978
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 2: it's so great into personally because we can get into

979
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 2: these like you know, wanting to be right in an

980
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 2: argument for instance, it's like, hold on, what's my aim here?

981
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 2: Like am I Am I going to achieve my aim

982
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 2: by like continuing to want to be right? Or do

983
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 2: I need to think about what's going to be effective

984
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 2: in the situation. But I think that people can get

985
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 2: really stuck in like what should be, which should be

986
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 2: you know, easier to reach my goals for instance, and

987
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 2: not really looking at what actually the reality is. It's like, well,

988
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 2: let's accept the reality that it's actually not easy and

989
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 2: that it's full and you have you know, you have

990
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 2: to do A before B and you know, and and

991
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 2: that that doesn't have to be something you judge yourself

992
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 2: for if your pace is a little bit different to

993
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 2: somebody else's or your A is further from the further

994
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 2: from the B than it is for somebody else. Yes,

995
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I think judgment is and you've said that,

996
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 2: but self loathing thing that people can can get into

997
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 2: is that's what keeps people really really stuck and certainly

998
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 2: one of the main obstacles to getting things done.

999
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you can like these things can

1000
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 1: coexist where I can say, okay, so I fucked up,

1001
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 1: all right, just putting out my hand. I fucked up.

1002
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 1: I made a decision, I spoke out a turn, or

1003
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 1: I did a dumb thing whatever, without going, ah, you're

1004
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: a fucking idiot, you know. I like, yeah, I'm a

1005
01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:00,480
Speaker 1: more on. I always do stupid things. I'm so dumb. No, No,

1006
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:03,080
Speaker 1: I did a dumb thing. Perhaps I made a bad decision.

1007
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 1: I took about action. I created an outcome I didn't want. Okay, one,

1008
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 1: what can I learn? What will I do differently? What

1009
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 1: am I going to do now? Like, what's my action now?

1010
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 1: And so, of course you're flawed. Of course you're an idiot,

1011
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 1: and then of course you're brilliant, and of course you

1012
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,600
Speaker 1: have peaks and troughs, and of course you're sad and

1013
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 1: now you're happy, and of course you have breakthroughs and breakdowns.

1014
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 1: Of course, you know this is the human experience. We're

1015
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 1: not telling you not to be broken, because sometimes you're

1016
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:35,440
Speaker 1: going to be and sometimes you're going to be a

1017
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,920
Speaker 1: bit brilliant, you know. So the challenge is, let's navigate

1018
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: being human, but let's control our controllables and let's try

1019
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 1: to live consciously and proactively rather than unconsciously and reactively.

1020
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that going back to what we

1021
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 2: were talking about before, I think that that level of

1022
01:02:55,960 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 2: acceptance without judgment is where contentment lives, and that you

1023
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 2: can have that and still know that you can do

1024
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 2: and be better. Right, Yeah, and that's still contentment.

1025
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if we helped anyone tonight, but you know,

1026
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 1: it was good to chat.

1027
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 2: Always to chat with you.

1028
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 1: Where can people connect with you, Doc.

1029
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 2: Lili dot com, Doctor Lilian dot com. I should know.

1030
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 2: My own website is a good place and contain your brain.

1031
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 2: Dot com is another good place if you want to

1032
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 2: calm down some of those those thoughts and ruminate, ruminating

1033
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 2: thoughts and worries that you have.

1034
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 1: Giddy up but a coup. Always love chatting with you.

1035
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 1: We'll say goodbar off here, but thanks for hanging out

1036
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 1: yet again, thank you for having me