WEBVTT - Do Donald Trump’s autism claims stack up?

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<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Christinamiot.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Wednesday, September twenty four, twenty twenty five. The light

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<v Speaker 1>is fading on the Alberesy Government's ambitious twenty thirty Renewable

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<v Speaker 1>Energy Target. Labour wants eighty two percent of energy in

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<v Speaker 1>the grid to come from renewables within the decade, but

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<v Speaker 1>net zero modeling conducted by teams from the Universities of

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<v Speaker 1>Melbourne and Queensland and Princeton University in the US suggests

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<v Speaker 1>we could be waiting until twenty thirty eight to get there.

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<v Speaker 1>Australia is at a critical juncture in its energy evolution.

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<v Speaker 1>On Wednesday, some of the most influential voices in the

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<v Speaker 1>sector will come together at The Australian's Energy Nation Forum.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a stacked lineup and you can join our subscribers

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<v Speaker 1>for all the action at the Australian dot com. Dot

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<v Speaker 1>au does cause autism. It's the question blowing up the

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<v Speaker 1>medical world after US President Donald Trump released official advice

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<v Speaker 1>regarding the use of the common painkiller during pregnancy. Today

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<v Speaker 1>Health editor Natasha Robinson joins us to unpack this complex issue.

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<v Speaker 2>I think we found an answer to autism. How about that.

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<v Speaker 1>This is part of a wide ranging address given by

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<v Speaker 1>US President Donald Trump at a memorial for conservative activist

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<v Speaker 1>Charlie Kirk on Sunday Tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to be talking in the Oval Office in

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<v Speaker 2>the White House about autism. How it happens. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's going to be one of the most important news

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<v Speaker 2>conferences I'll ever have, and I look so forward to it.

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<v Speaker 1>It was curious given the circumstances, but on Monday, the

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<v Speaker 1>President's message came into sharp relief.

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<v Speaker 2>First, effective immediately, the FDA will be notifying physicians that

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<v Speaker 2>the use of I said, well, let's see how we

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<v Speaker 2>say that. I said a menefin. Acetamnifin said, okay, which

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<v Speaker 2>is basically commonly known as thailand all during pregnancy, can

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<v Speaker 2>be associated with a very increased risk of autism. So

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<v Speaker 2>taking thailand all is not good. I'll say it. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not good.

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<v Speaker 1>Flanked by Health Secretary Robert Fitzgerald Kennedy Jr. The President

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<v Speaker 1>urged pregnant women to limit the use of acetaminifin, which

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<v Speaker 1>is known as paracetamol in Australia, unless it's absolutely medically necessary.

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<v Speaker 2>But if you can't tough it out. If you can

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<v Speaker 2>do it, that's what you're gonna have to do. You'll

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<v Speaker 2>take atil and all, but it'll be very sparingly.

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<v Speaker 3>There is certainly no causation established here. That's the first

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<v Speaker 3>thing to say.

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<v Speaker 1>Natasha Robinson is the Australian's Health editor.

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<v Speaker 3>But I don't think that you can take the fact

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<v Speaker 3>that there is not a definitive link established between the

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<v Speaker 3>use of paracetamol in pregnancy and causation in terms of

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<v Speaker 3>autism to completely dismiss what the administration in the USA

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<v Speaker 3>has put on the agenda here. It's really important, I think,

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<v Speaker 3>in this circumstance to sift through the heat and light

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<v Speaker 3>that we see with Trump in everything that he says,

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<v Speaker 3>and I would really encourage people to go and look

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<v Speaker 3>at the policy in relation to this that the US

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<v Speaker 3>Department of Health and Human Services has put out. It's

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<v Speaker 3>really interesting to go through that and see just how

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<v Speaker 3>measured it actually is. Everything that I've heard in terms

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<v Speaker 3>of response from experts shooting down these claims is actually

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<v Speaker 3>documented in this information that they've put out there, including

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<v Speaker 3>the fact that they openly admit that causation is in

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<v Speaker 3>fact not established here.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think what the whole.

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<v Speaker 3>Point of this announcement is. There are association studies, and

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<v Speaker 3>there are many of them, and they have consistently shown

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<v Speaker 3>a higher rate of autism, sometimes only a small difference,

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<v Speaker 3>but nevertheless that is consistent across many studies in terms

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<v Speaker 3>of the slightly high rates of autism among women who

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<v Speaker 3>have taken parasitamol during pregnancy, and that particularly late pregnancy

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<v Speaker 3>seems to be the issue here. There are other studies

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<v Speaker 3>that have disproven any association. A large Swedish study that

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<v Speaker 3>many of the experts who are responding to this announcement

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<v Speaker 3>appointing to, which can trolled for genetics essentially by examining

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<v Speaker 3>siblings as well, and once they examined the siblings and

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<v Speaker 3>their circumstances, they found that the association disappeared. But then

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<v Speaker 3>there's yet again other studies that have looked at that

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<v Speaker 3>Swedish study, and there's in particular a Harvard study that

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<v Speaker 3>had some concerns with the way that that study was conducted.

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<v Speaker 3>So look, it is safe to say here the evidence

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<v Speaker 3>is mixed.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's do a quick fact check here.

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<v Speaker 2>And by the way, I think I could say that

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<v Speaker 2>there are certain groups of people that don't take vaccines

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<v Speaker 2>and don't take any pills that have no autism.

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump didn't actually seem too confident on this point.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that a correct statement? By the way, there are

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<v Speaker 2>some studies that suggests that with the Amish, for example,

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<v Speaker 2>the Amish, Yeah, virtually I heard none. She Bobbie wants

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<v Speaker 2>to be very careful with what he says, and he should.

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<v Speaker 2>But I'm not so careful with what I say. But

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<v Speaker 2>you have certain groups, the Amish as an example, they

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<v Speaker 2>have essentially no autism.

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<v Speaker 3>I've had a little opportunity to have a bit of

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<v Speaker 3>a look at these studies. First of all, the idea

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<v Speaker 3>that there's no autism in the Amish communities is false.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's true as far as I can see,

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<v Speaker 3>that there is a lower rate of autism in Amish communities,

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<v Speaker 3>and some of the material studies that I've looked at

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<v Speaker 3>have indicated that it may be as much as four

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<v Speaker 3>times lower. But it's unclear why that is. There does

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<v Speaker 3>seem to have been an issue with the particular study

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<v Speaker 3>around about twenty years ago in the US where there

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<v Speaker 3>was some suggestions that because Amish families don't generally vaccinate

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<v Speaker 3>their children, that was the reason they didn't have any autism,

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<v Speaker 3>and I think that's been comprehensively debunked.

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<v Speaker 2>And you shouldn't give the child to taileril. Every time

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<v Speaker 2>he goes he's born, he goes and has a shot,

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<v Speaker 2>you shouldn't give a tailer and oil to that child.

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<v Speaker 3>So, in relationship to children, there is no evidence whatsoever

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<v Speaker 3>that there's any problem giving parasita mult your children. What

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<v Speaker 3>the TGA recommends is that you follow the dosage instructions

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<v Speaker 3>and you only give it as needed. So the general

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<v Speaker 3>advice is to give it in the smallest possible dosage

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<v Speaker 3>for the time that it is really required. Take the

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<v Speaker 3>advice of your doctor. I know that doctors do often

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<v Speaker 3>recommend it when people vaccinate their children. It's certainly not

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<v Speaker 3>a clear cut issue, and it's absolutely one that requires

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<v Speaker 3>the advice of a doctor, not President Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>It can be something that's very dangerous to the woman's health,

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<v Speaker 2>in other words, a fever that's very very dangerous, and

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<v Speaker 2>ideally a doctor's decision because I think you shouldn't take it,

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<v Speaker 2>and you shouldn't take it during the entire pregnancy. They

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<v Speaker 2>may tell you that toward the end of the pregnancy

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<v Speaker 2>you shouldn't take it.

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<v Speaker 1>So Natasha, what the Therapeutic Goods Administration, which is the

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<v Speaker 1>health regulator here in Australia, what does it actually recommend

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<v Speaker 1>for pregnant women where paracetamol is concerned.

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<v Speaker 3>The TTA in Australia classifies paracetamol as a Category A

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<v Speaker 3>drug in pregnancy, which means that it generally considers it safe.

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<v Speaker 3>It does say that it should only be taken where necessary,

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<v Speaker 3>and it should be taken at the lowest possible dose

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<v Speaker 3>for the shortest possible time. And I think the important

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<v Speaker 3>thing in relation to paracetamol that is the biggest consideration

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<v Speaker 3>here is that people don't always use it just for paying.

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<v Speaker 3>People often use it to control fever. And that's actually

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<v Speaker 3>very important in pregnancy because fever uncontrolled can be dangerous

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<v Speaker 3>for the fetus and can trigger premature births. So it

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<v Speaker 3>is an important factor and that's also acknowledged by the

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<v Speaker 3>US Health Department. And that's what many experts are saying

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<v Speaker 3>to pregnant women in the wake of this is if

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<v Speaker 3>you have a don't let it run. It's better to

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<v Speaker 3>take paracetamol than to actually have a high fever that

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<v Speaker 3>goes on and.

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<v Speaker 1>On coming up dangerous ideas make a Trump era comeback.

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<v Speaker 1>The idea that autism is caused by certain medications and

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<v Speaker 1>vaccinations can be traced back to a paper published in

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<v Speaker 1>the respected Lancet Medical Journal in the nineteen nineties by

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<v Speaker 1>British gastro intestinal doctor Andrew Wakefield. It said of a

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<v Speaker 1>group of twelve eight children who'd received the combined measles

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<v Speaker 1>Mump's rubella vaccine went on to develop autism. It was

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<v Speaker 1>a global bombshell, but it was also wrong. It's since

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<v Speaker 1>been determined Wakefield's methodology was flawed and his paper was

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<v Speaker 1>retracted by the Lancet, but the ideas had taken hold,

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<v Speaker 1>and they've undermined faith in vaccines ever since. Vaccines have

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<v Speaker 1>saved millions of lives from diseases that used to kill

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<v Speaker 1>people of all ages, from babies to adults. Now, anti

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<v Speaker 1>vaccine rhetoric has had a resurgence under the Trump administration,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks to skepticism of high ranking officials like RFK Junior

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<v Speaker 1>and even the President himself, who famously took the anti

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<v Speaker 1>malaria drug hydroxychloroquin during the COVID nineteen pandemic against medical advice.

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<v Speaker 2>And they've pumped so much stuff into those beautiful little babies.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a disgrace.

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<v Speaker 3>So I'd just say something about these comments by Trump

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<v Speaker 3>in the first instance, do not take your medical advice

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<v Speaker 3>from the US president. Okay, a responsible president should be

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<v Speaker 3>telling people to discuss these issues with their doctor. That

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<v Speaker 3>is the first thing that I'd say in relation to

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<v Speaker 3>his general message. I think what is clear and agreed

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<v Speaker 3>by everybody is that this is an incredibly complex condition

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<v Speaker 3>that probably has a lot of complex drivers. We've studied

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<v Speaker 3>the genetics. We know that there's a lot of genes

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<v Speaker 3>involved with traits that are apparent in conditions of neurodiversity,

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<v Speaker 3>including autism. The incredibly important other aspect here is the

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<v Speaker 3>environmental factors, of which pharmaceuticals are one. It's incredibly complex

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<v Speaker 3>to pin down those exact mechanisms, but what people believe

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<v Speaker 3>is going on, and the foremost researchers in the world

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<v Speaker 3>all agree in terms of autism, it is driven by

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<v Speaker 3>genetics and in combination with environmental factors which have an

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<v Speaker 3>impact upon a person's genetics. I think the comment that

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<v Speaker 3>made about we think we've essentially figured autism out, we're

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<v Speaker 3>going to fix it, is really unhelpful because implicit in

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<v Speaker 3>that comment is that this is a pathology that requires

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<v Speaker 3>a medical fix, and with a condition like autism, of

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<v Speaker 3>course it's not helpful to speak about a condition which

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<v Speaker 3>involves diversity in the way that people affected by neurodevelopmental

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<v Speaker 3>conditions actually communicate, experience the world, et cetera, et cetera,

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<v Speaker 3>and so essentially casting it as a problem that needs

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<v Speaker 3>to be fixed, and we've found the answer is very

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<v Speaker 3>unhelpful and stigmatizing for people with autism.

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<v Speaker 1>Natasha Robinson is The Australian's Health editor. You can read

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<v Speaker 1>all her reporting and analysis right now at the Australian

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<v Speaker 1>dot com dot au