WEBVTT - Zoe Daniel on what it costs to win an election 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:08.800 From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.200 The historic Teal wave at the last election delivered the 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:16.279 two major parties their worst electoral results in decades, so 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.239 perhaps it's no surprise that the government looks set to 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:22.400 introduce new laws that could make it harder for newcomers 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:26.200 to compete. The Minister Responsible says he wants to address 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.960 the growing threat of big money in politics with rules 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.040 lack a requirement that all donations over one thousand dollars 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.080 be disclosed, caps on the amount that can be donated, 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.440 and a requirement that those donations are made public in 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.840 real time. A cap on spending is also at my table, 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:46.920 somewhere around a million dollars per candidate per seat, which 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:51.479 is significantly less than many of the Teals spent to win. Today. 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:55.080 Independent Member for Goldstein Zoey Daniel on how much it 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:58.160 costs to beat an incumbent and the double standards of 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:13.800 the major parties. It's Monday, July twenty nine. Hi, Zowe, 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:15.759 thanks for joining me on seven am. 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:18.160 My pleasure. Thanks for having me so. 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:20.720 I thought we could start by going back to twenty 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:24.280 twenty two, when you run against and you successfully unseated 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.160 Liberal MP Tim Wilson. Why do you think you won? 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:30.600 I mean, I must say when I was asked by 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:34.760 a community organization to run in Goldstein, my initial response was, 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:37.880 there is no chance we can win that seat. You know, 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:41.080 it had been a safe liberal seat with a male 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:44.160 member for more than one hundred and twenty years. But 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.560 it became very evident during the campaign that a lot 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.000 of people felt the same way as me, that they 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:54.840 was sick of two party politics and they wanted someone 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:59.200 who could contribute in a different way. And also that 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:03.600 the isue that I was focused on so particularly climate policy, 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:09.040 gender equality and integrity in politics, really resonated with a 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:09.639 lot of people. 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:11.600 I think that we were able to. 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:16.320 Build momentum around that issues and run a really positive campaign. 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:27.360 What we have achieved here is extraordinary safe liberalcy two 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:29.040 term incumbent. 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:31.440 Independence. 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:36.239 And of course at the time a lot was made 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:39.200 of the so called Till wave and the backing that 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:41.600 you had from Climate two hundred. Can you tell me 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.560 about how you raised money for your campaign and how 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:45.520 much you raised. 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:48.320 So we spent I think in the end it was 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.680 about one point eight million dollars on the campaign, and 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:55.320 we raised over a million of that from within the electorate. 0:02:55.680 --> 0:03:00.400 So Climate two hundred obviously made a substantial contribut to 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:04.240 my campaign, and Climate two hundred is a crowdfunding movement 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:08.480 with around eleven and a half thousand donors, and a 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.399 lot of the funding that came into my campaign from 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:16.240 Climate two hundred went to advertising, for example, But the 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.600 main fundraising effort on my part was within the community. 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.399 So my team and I spent a lot of time 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.920 out simply talking to members of the community around why 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:29.680 it was important to do politics differently, and we had 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:34.440 thousands of people who donated quite small amounts to the campaign. 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.440 So I had very few large donors. 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:42.280 I didn't have any one individual donating hundreds of thousands 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.200 of dollars or even one hundred thousand dollars to my campaign. 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:50.480 It was predominantly people inside and outside the electorate who 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:58.240 were keen to get an independent into Parliament. If not us, 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:03.920 if not, now, let's do this Goldstein. So as an independent, 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:07.160 you really need to spend a lot of time building 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:11.400 that reputational respect, if you like, and the only way 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.480 of doing it really is through direct engagement with people. 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:17.480 I'm with Zoe because I believe in positive change. 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.040 I'm for Zoe because I want to see the gold 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:24.120 in Goldstein. I'm with Zoe because the current federal government 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:28.039 is not doing enough for climate action or women's equality. 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.320 So although we did a lot of fundraising, that money 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:36.800 was spent on the right staff with the right skills 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:42.400 to enable the kind of campaign that iran. Predominantly the 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:47.680 funding went to advertising, vote on the Issues, Vote with 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:53.400 Conviction authorized by Zoe Daniel Brighton, billboard advertising which is 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:58.680 extremely expensive, social media advertising, and call flutes so the 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:01.720 election side that people put on fences. 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:04.680 So it's quite a lot of moving parts. 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.320 And so obviously all of that worked. We of course 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.679 saw a whole lot of community independence including you people 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:17.160 like Monik Ryan, a Leke rospender win against major party incumbents. 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:21.320 So how important was being able to raise funds to 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:25.280 campaign in the ways that you're describing, so billboards, social media, 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.160 hiring the right people. How important was all of that 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:31.880 ultimately in changing the makeup of the parliament the way 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:33.560 that Australia is now represented. 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:35.680 Look, it's really critical. 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:41.800 It's unfortunate that you need a substantial amount of money 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:45.600 in each of the independents that were elected at the 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:49.120 last election, spent a substantial amount of money to get 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:49.800 elected in. 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:50.880 Save seberal seats. 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:55.760 As a new face and a person with new ideas, 0:05:55.960 --> 0:06:00.160 you have a really limited amount of time and runway 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:04.240 to actually get those ideas out to people and to 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:07.080 help people to understand what they're voting for. I mean, 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.760 obviously I can see where you're going with the conversation, 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.760 and I think that you know the tension is the 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:19.080 fact that that's required in order to enable fresh thinking. 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:21.720 But at the same time, we certainly don't want to 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.880 end up with a US style system where you know, 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.360 people get elected because I've got a lot of money 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:29.960 and money kind of rules. 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.000 That's definitely not where we want to end it. 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.400 The Special Minister for State Don Farrell, is expected to 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:39.040 table a set of proposals that if they pass, they 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:41.920 will be some of the biggest changes to the way 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:44.880 that we run elections in this country that we've seen. 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.560 Can you tell me what your understanding is of what's 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:50.880 being proposed and why you think it is that the 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:52.119 government is doing this now? 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:54.919 So I haven't seen an exposure draft. 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:58.920 I would love to see one because we do have 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:03.880 concern that the two major parties will collude to protect 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:09.080 their Coals and Wullies duopoly and to cut out new entrants. 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:13.280 My understanding of it is that they're looking at real 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:17.960 time disclosure and reduce thresholds for real time disclosure. This 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:21.280 is something that I and everyone on the cross Bench 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:24.760 did anyway at the last election, and I think reducing 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.360 the threshold for that, to say one thousand dollars is 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:33.440 absolutely fine and should happen. People should have transparency around 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:38.400 where donations have come from. And then it seems evident 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:44.040 that they're looking at either donation caps or spending caps 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:49.000 or both, and that's really at the core of the issue. 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:51.920 Do you agree with donation caps and spending cups? 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:53.480 Well, it depends what they are. 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.680 And really the devil is in the detail here because 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:01.960 the playing field is already to filtered in favor of 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:08.640 the major parties because of their history, their visibility. 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:10.800 The entrenched awareness in the community of them. 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:15.440 But also that they have the collective power if you like. 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:20.040 So a general ad that just says vote liberal or 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:25.640 vote labor will still benefit the individual candidate within my electorate, 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:29.560 because some people don't really care who the candidate is. 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:31.960 They'll just go in and put a one next to 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:36.440 a particular party and if, for example, has been I 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:38.800 think has been floating around in the press that the 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:43.760 cap could be a million dollars per electorate while the 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:47.960 vast majority of that still flows to the major parties. 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.760 And do they have to spend only a million dollars 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:54.360 in each each electorate or can they split it up 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.760 to spend more money in marginal seats and less money 0:08:57.760 --> 0:08:58.600 in other seats. 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:00.640 And they also have sort. 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:04.360 Of external funding vehicles, and they do things like run 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:07.080 dinners where they charge you know, five thousand dollars a 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:09.320 seat to sit next to the minister, and those sorts 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:13.240 of things, and there's a level of opacity around those 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:17.560 kinds of fundraising mechanisms. So I think the key to 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.680 it is the level playing field, but also the transparency 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:23.920 and you can't sort of let the major parties get 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:30.760 around it with you know, things that are convenient to them. 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:34.360 And then the bigger concern is that because obviously, if 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:38.400 the Labor Party and the Coalition got together to push 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:41.520 this through, then no one else has any say in 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:42.400 how that looks. 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:45.800 And to me, that means that the roughly thirty percent. 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.200 Of the population who didn't vote for either of the 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.000 major parties is not being heard. 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:57.360 So is the government listening to crossbench concerns. That's after 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:10.840 the break Zolli. The government is working on this draft 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:15.600 legislation to change the parameters on electoral spending. Have you 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:19.040 had any consultations with the minister who's driving is Don Farrell, 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:23.000 about your concerns and how have those conversations gone. 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.480 The Independence as a group have had a couple of 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.720 meetings with the minister. I'm not going to talk about 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:33.080 what's happened in those meetings. I mean they're in effect 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:36.160 meetings in which the cross Bench has been able to 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:39.880 articulate the kinds of concerns that I've articulated to you, 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:45.680 and the Minister's done some listening and the cross bench 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:49.440 has since been doing some waiting for an exposure draft 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:51.679 so that we can look at the kind of details 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:53.280 that I'm talking about. 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:58.840 And Don Farrell has accused Independence of being hypocrites. Essentially, 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:00.880 He's quoted as saying that some of the tills are 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.920 saying to us that they agree with banning big money, 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:06.199 just not theirs. What's your response to. 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.600 That, Well, I mean he kind of would say that, 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.800 I suppose, but I guess I would throw the same 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:17.160 thing back to him. I mean, take a look at 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.400 how much money the major parties are raised, which is 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:24.760 in the hundreds of millions for the last election. You know, 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:28.800 a single donation from a Union could have funded my 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:32.960 entire campaign, but all that money went into Labour's coffers, 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:38.320 so it's a little bit pot kettle. And also Climate 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:42.880 two hundreds, which was only a contributor to my and 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.480 the other campaigns, is made up of eleven and a 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:50.239 half thousand donors. These are ordinary Australians who want politics 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:55.360 done differently. So this whole sort of equivalency that both 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:57.120 the major parties like to use in. 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.280 Regard to the independence. 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:03.960 That you know where funded by a billionaire or a multimillionaire, 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:08.160 is just complete rubbish and is very sort of convenient 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:09.160 for them. 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:11.079 To foster their own position. 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.920 And what you've seen in New South Wales and Victoria, 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:20.040 for example, is that changes to donation rules in Victoria 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:24.200 in effect meant that the independents all lost their seats 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:27.040 at the last election. And I don't think that that's 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:28.400 what the population wants. 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:31.480 And so if that is the case, if the smaller 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:36.239 players do get cut out, what is it that voters stand. 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:42.760 To lose, accountability, pressure a new way of doing politics. 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:47.400 This is still a very new phenomenon and look, I 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:54.080 think anyone who expects you know, politics to miraculously metamorphous 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:58.960 into something that's perfect in two years after you know, 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.480 one hundred and twenty plus years from Federation of Bad 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:07.440 Habits being created is being somewhat naive. But absolutely there 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:11.640 has been positive change in terms of the fact that 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:16.000 the Crossbench interacts with the Government and the opposition to 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:19.800 some degree to create better policy and is to do 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:24.920 with holding the government to account, making them more ambitious 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:29.680 and calling out failures bad behavior when they can do 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:37.319 it better, working with the government on legislation and policy 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:41.200 to point out the issues and to stack up evidence 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:45.679 based reasons to create improvement, rather than just having a 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:49.280 combative environment of one side says we're going to do 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.560 this and the other side says no. I think we've 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:54.920 been stalled for a long time on a range of 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:59.599 policies because of that approach, and that's what the Crossbench 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:00.880 seeks to change. 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:04.480 Saway, Thank you so much for your tame. 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:06.120 My pleasure, thanks for having me. 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:20.320 Also in the news today, Northern Territory. Senator Melanderie McCarthy 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.320 has been named as the new Minister for Indigenous Australians 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:27.640 as part of a cabinet reshuffle announced yesterday afternoon. Senator 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:31.240 McCarthy replaces Linda Burney, who will retire from federal politics 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.840 at the next election. Linda Burney was the first Indigenous 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.560 person elected to the new South Wales Parliament and the 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:39.960 first Indigenous woman to be elected to the House of 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:43.960 Representatives and to be appointed a Cabinet minister. And Tony 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.600 Burke has replaced Andrew Giles as Minister for Immigration. Mister 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.440 Giles has been under increasing pressure for months over his 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:54.760 handling of last year's High Court ruling on indefinite immigration detention. 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.520 And Clara O'Neill has been removed from Home Affairs. She 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.240 will now be Housing Minister. I'm Ruby Jones. 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.080 This is seven a m. Thanks for listening.