Speaker 1: I record this podcast on Gaetgol Country. I'd like to
Speaker 1: pay my respect to the traditional.
Speaker 2: Custodians, and I'm recording on Urando Country, part of the
Speaker 2: Cooler Nation.
Speaker 3: Let's go.
Speaker 4: I know you're going to dig this.
Speaker 1: It's like I've been given like an extra sprinkle of something.
Speaker 5: You've got layers, Yeah, I got layers.
Speaker 2: I was just thinking, I'm like, we're just such beautiful storytellers.
Speaker 4: You're making a lot of sense to that girl. Now
Speaker 4: I'm done.
Speaker 3: Let's be in too honest to go.
Speaker 2: So, guys, I recently turned thirty and honestly think, what
Speaker 2: the fuck am I doing with my life? Honestly, I
Speaker 2: don't even know how I got here, Maddie. I really don't,
Speaker 2: because I didn't think that I would get here. And
Speaker 2: I'm just figuring it out. And the best person to
Speaker 2: have on the podcast who has written a book about
Speaker 2: it is figuring out thirty Bridget Huseway and welcome to
Speaker 2: the pod. Yes, welcome, since first, how are you?
Speaker 6: I'm so excited to like chat to you guys in
Speaker 6: this format, Like obviously no you broke Maddie.
Speaker 5: It's our first time meeting.
Speaker 6: But yeah, I think this is such an exciting conversation,
Speaker 6: and especially because you're about to turn thirty and Brooke
Speaker 6: justin thirty, so yeah, get tricks. Like.
Speaker 1: The thing about me, though, is I'm excited to turn thirty,
Speaker 1: Like I am really thrilled to get older. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm just starting to figure out who
Speaker 1: I am and what I love and my core values.
Speaker 1: I'm really getting to that point in my life. So
Speaker 1: I feel like getting older for me is exciting. Is
Speaker 1: that that's not a common thing you would hear, right.
Speaker 5: I don't think it's common.
Speaker 2: I mean when you look like Maddie like he's.
Speaker 3: You've got ten years on me, I swear.
Speaker 5: Come on, you both look like baite, Well we are
Speaker 5: we are?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the grand scheme of things, thirty is young.
Speaker 2: Like Rachel makes this perfect comment and like analogy, I
Speaker 2: guess when you know, like not to take it to
Speaker 2: a morbid term, but like when someone dies and you
Speaker 2: see their age and they're like thirty, thirty five, forty,
Speaker 2: You're like, holy shit, they were young. Yeah, and we think,
Speaker 2: oh that's old, Like no, we're just getting started.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, total agree.
Speaker 6: No, it's I love the mindset that you were excited
Speaker 6: to approach this new decade. I wasn't like that approaching thirty.
Speaker 6: But it is weird, I guess when some people, especially women,
Speaker 6: approaching this decade because of these more traditional kind of
Speaker 6: external pressures that we do face. And you think of
Speaker 6: the generations before us, and those milestones were suddenly down
Speaker 6: having a kid, buying a house. It's just not really
Speaker 6: applicable to our generation now. But it is an exciting chapter.
Speaker 6: And when you said about you know your values, and
Speaker 6: this is a time where you can really yes, set
Speaker 6: those kind of expectations for yourself and what you actually
Speaker 6: really want versus what you think you should want because
Speaker 6: of what people actually expect of you. So you are
Speaker 6: coming in guns blaze.
Speaker 4: I'm excited.
Speaker 1: I truly am, like I feel like I'm just getting started,
Speaker 1: you know, in all aspects. But I want to ask you, obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, you hit thirty, some people have this like
Speaker 1: pressure on themselves or they feel this pressure from society
Speaker 1: that we should have it all figured out, you know.
Speaker 1: But it must have taken a lot of reflection for
Speaker 1: you to put this book out, you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of I suppose more self discovery at the age of thirty.
Speaker 1: What was the process like of like digging through the
Speaker 1: first thirty years and then being able to like be like, okay,
Speaker 1: well this is what I know.
Speaker 5: Well, well, the timeline was interesting, I guess.
Speaker 6: So six weeks before I turned thirty, also six days
Speaker 6: before my first book came out, my partner of five
Speaker 6: years broke up with me random Wednesday night. We were
Speaker 6: three weeks into a brand new rental lease, so we
Speaker 6: just moved to a new house and it happened, and
Speaker 6: it just I guess the timing of it, especially so
Speaker 6: close to turning thirty and thinking that I was entering
Speaker 6: this new decade feeling I guess somewhat settled. Was not
Speaker 6: the case, and then you know, big breakup, but then
Speaker 6: it kind of turned into and like sometimes it sounds cringe,
Speaker 6: but I do think with the big breakup comes a
Speaker 6: big breakthrough, and you use that kind of opportunity, especially
Speaker 6: heading into thirty, being like, all right, well, what the
Speaker 6: hell do I actually like want for myself for the
Speaker 6: next ten years, How do I actually want to start.
Speaker 5: This new decade of life?
Speaker 6: And yeah, I was already feeling a little bit of
Speaker 6: unease right before this even happened, Like I remember putting
Speaker 6: in my phone notes up about like, you know, on paper,
Speaker 6: everything's fine approaching thirty, but there's still this sense of unease,
Speaker 6: not sure why want to talk about it though? And
Speaker 6: I even at that point, I was like, should I
Speaker 6: start a podcast one day about this transition turning thirty?
Speaker 6: And I was still you know, full time music presenter
Speaker 6: on Triple J at that point and doing that.
Speaker 5: But just on the side, I was like, I'm really.
Speaker 6: Keen to have those kind of conversations, you know, about
Speaker 6: life and what adulthood is like to navigate.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I kind of used that moment.
Speaker 6: I was obviously grieving and you know, trying to start
Speaker 6: a new life for myself, but I am experiencing like
Speaker 6: all the feels in real time. But I was also
Speaker 6: very observant of what I was feeling and what was
Speaker 6: happening in a broader sense about like, what is it
Speaker 6: about thirty? I was thinking back to, you know, growing up,
Speaker 6: we look at Bridget Jones, we look at Rachel in Friends,
Speaker 6: we look at Suddenly thirty, Adall's album thirty, Like all
Speaker 6: of these things have actually been commentary on this age.
Speaker 6: So there's clearly a fascination and a conversation to be
Speaker 6: had and then I kind of just started plotting a podcast,
Speaker 6: which was kind of something that I treated as a
Speaker 6: pilot to see if I enjoyed that kind of outlet,
Speaker 6: and then it led to a book deal. So it's
Speaker 6: kind of been like three years in the making of
Speaker 6: like and still experiencing a lot of stuff in real time,
Speaker 6: you know. Throughout the process of writing the book, I
Speaker 6: got an ADHD diagnosis, So it's been a massive three years.
Speaker 6: But the timeline's been really interesting to be able to
Speaker 6: experience it, reflect and figure out some things and like
Speaker 6: why I'm the way I am, and then I guess
Speaker 6: put it on paper and kind of report back to
Speaker 6: everyone on it. So yeah, it's been quite intensive. But
Speaker 6: now the book is out and to already kind of
Speaker 6: receive the feedback that it's been a good you know,
Speaker 6: frame of reference with people, or that it's been comforting,
Speaker 6: and there's still so much ahead, like I still have
Speaker 6: so much to kind of experience and figure out. But
Speaker 6: I guess that's how it's all been shaped for me.
Speaker 4: It seems like it was a bit of a process
Speaker 4: though yes.
Speaker 5: I had a big goal take time.
Speaker 2: I mean, when you're putting yourself out there and like
Speaker 2: writing you know, these personal experiences.
Speaker 3: It's not easy.
Speaker 2: Like you know, I relate to the whole point of
Speaker 2: like the things in your notes, because like even if
Speaker 2: you just write it in your notes and you come
Speaker 2: back to it later, it really transports you back to
Speaker 2: that time and you can look at where you what
Speaker 2: time you wrote.
Speaker 3: It's crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's why I mean I write everything in
Speaker 2: my notes, even like memories of that come up. And
Speaker 2: I really loved your book Bridge because I felt like,
Speaker 2: as a reader, you want to feel like you're being transported,
Speaker 2: and I felt like I was getting an insight into
Speaker 2: your life of those three years or even longer know
Speaker 2: in your career, and I just felt like you as
Speaker 2: a writer, you just articulate so many i'd say from
Speaker 2: a female's perspective, like so many relatable experiences that we
Speaker 2: and questions are we all ask, but we sometimes don't
Speaker 2: know how to like you know, either us.
Speaker 3: Or figure out what we're wanting. Just why do we
Speaker 3: feel like that? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And I think creating that dialogue is like so helpful
Speaker 2: to make someone's situation or experience normal in a sense
Speaker 2: like what is normal, but like normalize it in a
Speaker 2: way that it's like Oh okay, they're having those conversations too.
Speaker 2: What's the general feedback that you've got from people like
Speaker 2: can I.
Speaker 6: Ask definitely that people feel seen and validated? Yes, because yeah,
Speaker 6: and I mean people beyond thirty as well. I had
Speaker 6: someone who's twenty five message to me. I've had someone
Speaker 6: you know, people in their forties, and that's you know,
Speaker 6: you look at the title and you see Figuring out thirty.
Speaker 6: And also, I don't want it to come across that
Speaker 6: it's a self help book.
Speaker 3: This is not. Yeah, no, I don't.
Speaker 5: Have answers for you. I'm probably going to leave you
Speaker 5: with more questions.
Speaker 6: But I just have thoughts and ponderings that I want
Speaker 6: to share and that you might share them, and by
Speaker 6: doing so that makes you feel a little bit more
Speaker 6: seen and validated. And the only reason I do it
Speaker 6: is because of not having those frames of references when
Speaker 6: I was navigating it. So for endo, I didn't have
Speaker 6: a book that I could turn to when I was
Speaker 6: spending twelve years to get a diagnosis when I was
Speaker 6: turning thirty. I mean, obviously her do Olderton love, oh yeah,
Speaker 6: but a specific book on turning thirty didn't quite exist
Speaker 6: for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what is it that you learned most about yourself
Speaker 1: during that process? Like, obviously there would have been a
Speaker 1: lot of digging, self reflection and discovery, but what is
Speaker 1: maybe the one thing that you took away from the
Speaker 1: experience that you went, wow, like that taught me so much.
Speaker 5: From rinning the book? Yeah, oh golly, I think it
Speaker 5: is so much in there.
Speaker 6: Well, I think, yeah, Like ultimately it was having just
Speaker 6: awareness for understanding why I am the way I am
Speaker 6: and how I've been able to process particular things based
Speaker 6: on how I was raised and various real relationships throughout
Speaker 6: my life which have all been lessons of course. But
Speaker 6: then I guess, you know, taking that and being like
Speaker 6: what do I want to do with it? And what
Speaker 6: do I I guess having that willingness to make change.
Speaker 6: No one likes change, and especially changing yourself.
Speaker 3: It's uncomfortable.
Speaker 6: It's so uncomfortable, and yeah, especially at this time of
Speaker 6: life when you're expected to have so much figured out
Speaker 6: and you feel like you're kind of being you know,
Speaker 6: reported or marked on how.
Speaker 5: Well you're adulting.
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, No one likes criticism, rejection and change. But
Speaker 6: I think just being able to kind of take that
Speaker 6: on and then kind of having that front of mind,
Speaker 6: like what am I going to do with this moving forward?
Speaker 6: So yeah, it's like one thing to be aware, but
Speaker 6: then to actually actions change has been you know, and
Speaker 6: that's still a process for me, Like there's clearly still
Speaker 6: things that I have to work on. And I've brought
Speaker 6: a lot of anxious tendencies into my current relationship with
Speaker 6: my partner Oscar, who's definitely a more secure person.
Speaker 2: And does he make you more secure in a sense,
Speaker 2: like because I've like read about attachment issues, right, and
Speaker 2: they're like, you know that if you are with a
Speaker 2: secure person, it kind of can sort of drives like
Speaker 2: this role modeling in a sense.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, and no.
Speaker 6: Like it's also he's five years younger than me, so
Speaker 6: there's definitely differences in how we will communicate or you know,
Speaker 6: express our emotions, I suppose. And yeah for me coming
Speaker 6: from such like such an anxious place, Yeah, yeah, it's so.
Speaker 4: Fund someone be so secure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's that like?
Speaker 5: Nice?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're like the grass is really green over there.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's been like sometimes that's hard to digest that
Speaker 6: You're like, how are you so secure about this? And
Speaker 6: I am My brain is exploding and I think That's
Speaker 6: also been another thing with my ADHD, like how much
Speaker 6: that has actually come into relationships and getting that diagnosis
Speaker 6: thirty two, thirty three, you know, that's made a world
Speaker 6: of difference to kind of understand Yeah, how I am
Speaker 6: as a thirty three year old female. So yeah, there's
Speaker 6: still like a lot that I am learning and figuring out.
Speaker 6: But I think as well, Like one of the biggest
Speaker 6: realizations too, was among all this was just the reminder
Speaker 6: to be like, God, you got to go a bit
Speaker 6: easy on yourself.
Speaker 5: Oh, we're all.
Speaker 2: Like because in ten years you're gonna be like fucking
Speaker 2: figure out forty right.
Speaker 5: It doesn't And that's the thing.
Speaker 6: It doesn't matter like at what age. Like for me, yes,
Speaker 6: this was the transition into my thirties, that was a
Speaker 6: very particular time. This can happen to anyone in their
Speaker 6: late thirties, forties, or already happening to them in their twenties,
Speaker 6: Like we're all navigating something and asking questions about ourselves
Speaker 6: or having existential crisis of thoughts at any time.
Speaker 5: It doesn't end. You're always going to be figuring things out.
Speaker 1: Do you think that it's different for men and women
Speaker 1: and that age of thirty and what we experience once
Speaker 1: we sort of get around to this idea that okay,
Speaker 1: we're thirty. You know, obviously there's the societal pressures, you know,
Speaker 1: the women and.
Speaker 4: You know, having children.
Speaker 1: But did you learn anything about the difference between men
Speaker 1: and women in that moment in their lives during this process?
Speaker 6: I would say that men definitely don't have the same pressure,
Speaker 6: pressure and stresses. And you know, even when you look
Speaker 6: at a single man in their thirties compared to a
Speaker 6: single woman.
Speaker 5: We look at a man and be like, how can
Speaker 5: you be single?
Speaker 6: You look at a woman who's single in her thirties,
Speaker 6: it's something wrong with her, right, You know, there is
Speaker 6: definitely a difference the biological clock. We have to factor
Speaker 6: that in. We have to factor that in with our careers,
Speaker 6: especially working in media. For me, like, I think about
Speaker 6: it all the time in a freelance capacity to what
Speaker 6: was what would happen if I had a child now?
Speaker 5: And being someone who.
Speaker 6: Works you know, on television and across you know, these
Speaker 6: kind of platforms, how you've seen as a woman who's
Speaker 6: just had kids, your brand, you know, I think there's
Speaker 6: a lot of disadvantages. I think beauty standards as well.
Speaker 6: Like I have a chapter called Body Better, and it
Speaker 6: was essentially a timeline of from the age of what
Speaker 6: was I five or six when I got my ears
Speaker 6: pinned back because I didn't like how my ears locked
Speaker 6: and going from six up to age thirty two and
Speaker 6: all of the external appearance things that I personally have
Speaker 6: grappled with, and then bringing that out to a broader sense.
Speaker 6: I think the pressure on women and youth and how
Speaker 6: women age in society, we have it. I think we
Speaker 6: have it a lot harder. What do you think, Maddie.
Speaker 1: Great question, you totally I think the like, just being
Speaker 1: from my own point of view, I had a single mom.
Speaker 1: I've got with a single mom with three boys, and
Speaker 1: was taken away from my mum quite early in my life,
Speaker 1: so it ended up in foster care, and I didn't
Speaker 1: really have a female figure, a healthy female role model.
Speaker 4: In my life for a very long time. I moved
Speaker 4: to my dad's and then I ended up growing up
Speaker 4: with my dad.
Speaker 1: So one thing that I've realized is that when I
Speaker 1: was little, I didn't see a lot of women at
Speaker 1: that age, or I didn't my sister wasn't around, I
Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of women in my life who
Speaker 1: I was able to see and connect with around that age.
Speaker 1: So I think that there's a lot of experiences that,
Speaker 1: even for me as a man, that are ingrained in me.
Speaker 4: That I talk about this.
Speaker 1: All the time, trying to really get rid of the
Speaker 1: layers of misogyny that I have myself, even though I
Speaker 1: don't see myself as a misogynist, but there are so
Speaker 1: many experiences that I've been through in my life that
Speaker 1: I feel like just ingrained certain mindsets make you see
Speaker 1: certain things a certain way. And so it's like, as
Speaker 1: a man, I think that maybe we all have a
Speaker 1: role to playing being able to shed those views on
Speaker 1: how we interact, how we respect, and how we see women.
Speaker 4: You know, obviously I.
Speaker 1: See that there's huge societal disadvantage to women and how
Speaker 1: they're treated, especially in the workforce, and I think that
Speaker 1: maybe as men we need to really be more observant
Speaker 1: of how we interact with women.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, well, here's the thing.
Speaker 6: Everyone is a victim underpatriarchy, men and women.
Speaker 5: Yes, it is.
Speaker 6: You know, women obviously have it worse, and gender diverse
Speaker 6: people as well, but you're also under that structure, and
Speaker 6: we all have those moments of internalized misogyny. You know,
Speaker 6: I've certainly had it, but yeah, again, I guess it
Speaker 6: comes down to that awareness of being able to recognize
Speaker 6: it and the willingness to unlearn it. But this is
Speaker 6: you know, like we're talking about, this has been ingrained
Speaker 6: like history, right, so, but as long as you know,
Speaker 6: that's why those these conversations are so important to kind
Speaker 6: of create that dialogue and coming from the context of
Speaker 6: women aging and getting older, Yeah, I mean a lot
Speaker 6: is to be said to be improved with it, and
Speaker 6: especially when you talk about the workforce as well, Like
Speaker 6: we're in this position right, like where we can be
Speaker 6: in the workforce and I love having a very career
Speaker 6: driven life, but at what cost, especially when we're the
Speaker 6: ones who have to be the vessel for a child. Ye,
Speaker 6: we're in the workforce, but nothing's actually changed in the
Speaker 6: domestic sphere for us to We're expected to do the
Speaker 6: work at work, but then to do the work at
Speaker 6: home as well, you know, And that's why like so
Speaker 6: many women are like opting out of having kids because
Speaker 6: it's like, well, I'm like, literally what's in it for me?
Speaker 5: And that's not to say that.
Speaker 3: Like a beautiful child wouldn't be great. I would be
Speaker 3: and that.
Speaker 6: Love, you know, would be unlike anything else. But we
Speaker 6: are being a bit more contemplative on making that decision,
Speaker 6: which is you know, I think we're.
Speaker 3: So entitled to that as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like women should be entitled to put their careers,
Speaker 2: you know first, I think above those sort of big decisions,
Speaker 2: Like I think.
Speaker 3: Like that that's a pressure that I just wouldn't want,
Speaker 3: you know, like the future to have.
Speaker 2: Maybe you want to talk about the radio industry, bridge
Speaker 2: about your career in Triple J, Like, did you ever
Speaker 2: experience those barriers or those hurdles that you had to
Speaker 2: sort of jump through as a like as a woman,
Speaker 2: particularly like obviously.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I remember having a manager at Triple J who
Speaker 6: said to me. I remember expressing to her once being like, I,
Speaker 6: you know, yeah, I've just turned thirty. I left there
Speaker 6: when I was thirty one, thirty two, and I remember
Speaker 6: saying to her at one point being like, I don't
Speaker 6: want to feel like I'm.
Speaker 5: Too old to be here.
Speaker 6: Because it is a youth broadcast of the age, the
Speaker 6: key demographic is eighteen to twenty four, which you know,
Speaker 6: I think is really narrow.
Speaker 2: But I didn't know that actually, YEAHM eighteen to twenty four.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's not I mean, it's clearly not an accurate
Speaker 6: reflection of the listenership. Yeah, and it is very narrow.
Speaker 6: But I remember, you know, saying to my manager being like,
Speaker 6: I just don't want to feel that people. I'm scared
Speaker 6: that people will think that I'm too old to be
Speaker 6: on Triple J now. And I remember her saying to me,
Speaker 6: you know, we don't care about that, and we're not
Speaker 6: going to say to you, you know, because you're technically
Speaker 6: out of the demographic that you are too old to
Speaker 6: be on air. That's not important to me. What is
Speaker 6: important to me is how you connect with listeners. That
Speaker 6: was a really positive, yeah, interaction that I won't forget
Speaker 6: having with that particular manager. But I get angry still
Speaker 6: when I do think about those moments where I am
Speaker 6: actually thinking and yeah, thirty is young, but so annoying
Speaker 6: to me that I was having these hesitations and insecurities.
Speaker 6: But then I was looking on and you know, it's
Speaker 6: not to take like a personal dig, but like observing
Speaker 6: other presenters who may have been on air, older guys
Speaker 6: who have been there a long time, and I'm like
Speaker 6: they seem pretty comfortable. Are they having these thoughts that
Speaker 6: they might be a bit too old or is it
Speaker 6: just because I'm a female that I have, you know,
Speaker 6: this fear I guess of aging because of the language
Speaker 6: that we use surrounding aging women and in a media landscape,
Speaker 6: and especially when you do have to face to camera,
Speaker 6: I guess those kind of things. We're the ones who
Speaker 6: were doing our hair and makeup and wanting like it's always.
Speaker 3: To present ourselves in a way that is.
Speaker 6: Desirable, exactly and essentially youthful rights.
Speaker 3: And then if you work out with no makeup, they're like,
Speaker 3: are you sick?
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm not fucking sick, and I chose to
Speaker 2: not wear makeup.
Speaker 3: This is my natural face. Fuck you.
Speaker 6: So there's definitely yeah, like wider perspective, like on the
Speaker 6: media landscape, I think it's still an issue, and I
Speaker 6: even think of like I remember working with a guy
Speaker 6: who was lovely, but I remember him saying.
Speaker 5: This was nothing bad on him.
Speaker 6: But I remember he had to leave early to go
Speaker 6: pick up his kids because it was a school run,
Speaker 6: and all the comments to him were like, you're such
Speaker 6: a good dad, Like oh, that's so sweet, Like we
Speaker 6: fully glorify that. But if it was a woman doing it,
Speaker 6: that's an inconvenience and she's not taking her job seriously
Speaker 6: or she just can't I get it together. Yeah, I
Speaker 6: just think the language is so different. So yeah, those
Speaker 6: have been I guess my key. Like again, I'm lucky
Speaker 6: in the sense that I've never had I've never had
Speaker 6: anyone say to me you're too old. I mean, if anything,
Speaker 6: people are like, you're thirty three or whatever, and I'm
Speaker 6: just like, I know, I'm a big baby, like I
Speaker 6: just but we all like it's again, it's still a
Speaker 6: young age. But yeah, I'm sure there's people who've had
Speaker 6: worse experiences.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm just gonna be figuring it out
Speaker 2: all Like we're all.
Speaker 5: Just figuring you never work it out, That's what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, exactly, And I don't think you know, your
Speaker 2: book is like those reflections. But yeah, like you said,
Speaker 2: like they're not the answer the questions we're all asking,
Speaker 2: These bloody questions I always say, like to my twenties
Speaker 2: were like my developmental fuck it up years.
Speaker 3: Of destruction here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm like so grateful for them. Man, I
Speaker 2: have no idea what I was doing, but I was
Speaker 2: like here for it.
Speaker 3: Because I look back at those moments and I'm like, yeah.
Speaker 6: But I've never met anyone who said that I would
Speaker 6: love to go back to my twenties.
Speaker 5: I want to be in my twenties again. I am
Speaker 5: so exactly.
Speaker 1: You know what I get jealous of when I think about,
Speaker 1: like the people in my hometown because I come from
Speaker 1: a small town Tenworth who are like twenty five and
Speaker 1: they've bought their first home and they're with their partner
Speaker 1: and they've got their kids.
Speaker 4: I'm like, the simple life must be so fun.
Speaker 3: But I'm like, what is the attraction?
Speaker 4: Like I like, but everyone's so jealous.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, because I think big dreamers, people
Speaker 1: who have you know, freelance careers, are always hustling and
Speaker 1: also putting that pressure on themselves. True, you know, in
Speaker 1: their twenties to try and make it, But do you
Speaker 1: think that that pressure is worth it?
Speaker 5: Like, well, I mean I grew up in Balorat, so
Speaker 5: I have a lot of friends.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 6: It's that regional upbringing where it is kind of like
Speaker 6: go to UNI, get married, have your kids, and that's fine.
Speaker 6: I think at the end of the day, everyone has
Speaker 6: different markers and we're all clearly running a different race.
Speaker 6: But you just have to be able to tap into
Speaker 6: whatever that is and just make sure that what you're
Speaker 6: doing is what you really want to do, Like ask yourself,
Speaker 6: like really, like you not getting caught up in you
Speaker 6: think it's because you should be doing that. And I
Speaker 6: think that's definitely how I felt with my previous relationship.
Speaker 5: I put him on.
Speaker 6: The pedestal as being the one because I was like,
Speaker 6: you know, I'm approaching thirty, like, of course this this
Speaker 6: is the relationship where we're going to settle down. You know,
Speaker 6: I have my my silly relationship at twenty one or whatever.
Speaker 6: This is the serious one, Like he's the one, and
Speaker 6: then that clearly didn't work out.
Speaker 3: Oh we need to get rid of that. How do
Speaker 3: we get rid of that branche? You know?
Speaker 6: Like I wish I knew, but I guess, Like again,
Speaker 6: like hindsight's beautiful thing and it's just having that awareness
Speaker 6: and it extends to work as well. I don't think
Speaker 6: there's such a thing as you know. I like how
Speaker 6: you framed the one Brook where you're saying it's the
Speaker 6: one for you know, because you'll have.
Speaker 3: Taught me yes, this there's a dot dot dot.
Speaker 2: And I think like people need to really live in
Speaker 2: that like dot dot dot kind of mentality of like
Speaker 2: leave it open and figure it out, like I do know,
Speaker 2: like everyone is the one, like and be.
Speaker 5: The one for that point of time in your life.
Speaker 6: But to say that I just really don't like the
Speaker 6: whole one for the rest of my life.
Speaker 4: Pressure.
Speaker 6: I mean maybe I've commitment issues, but like locking in
Speaker 6: and putting all that pressure on the one person.
Speaker 4: Day by day.
Speaker 1: We had a we had a therapist on a matchmaker, sorry,
Speaker 1: a matchmaker and therapist as well, but she said, you know,
Speaker 1: you make a daily decision to be with that person
Speaker 1: on that day. Yeah, it's a very day to day choice.
Speaker 1: And I see because I was saying, I'm doing the
Speaker 1: exact same thing. I'm not putting this pressure on my
Speaker 1: relationship to be like I'm with you forever, forever, forever.
Speaker 1: It's like we're just together now in this moment because
Speaker 1: we love each other and we want to be together
Speaker 1: now because there's a lot of pressure. There is so
Speaker 1: much pressure.
Speaker 6: It's comparison culture really yeah, but then what we neglect
Speaker 6: and it sounds I know, it sounds crunge, but we
Speaker 6: neglect what is the one, and that is you.
Speaker 5: And because you are with you for your whole life,
Speaker 5: you gotta like yourself.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but we totally neglect that and we forget that
Speaker 6: for us to kind of show up as a better
Speaker 6: person and towards our other relationships, towards our work and
Speaker 6: although aspirations like you have to really spend time on
Speaker 6: the relationship that you have with yourself because that will
Speaker 6: make you better with all these other things, and you
Speaker 6: have to find happiness and fulfillment in other areas. You
Speaker 6: can't just put it all into one basket, whether that
Speaker 6: is a job or whether that is in a relationship.
Speaker 6: The only time in which you should put it all
Speaker 6: into one basket, if it's for you. That's probably another
Speaker 6: big lesson that I had from writing this, being like, yeah,
Speaker 6: I really just need to make sure that i'm and
Speaker 6: I think of this in the context of if I
Speaker 6: want to be a mom, I'm like, I need to
Speaker 6: work on some of my own ship first. I know
Speaker 6: they say you're never no one's ever ready to have kids,
Speaker 6: but I know I've.
Speaker 3: Got filled as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you don't just like wake up and
Speaker 2: you're like I'm here.
Speaker 5: I'm fit like everything.
Speaker 6: You know, you're going to continue figuring out parenthood as
Speaker 6: you're a parent. But for me personally, I know I.
Speaker 5: Do need to take care of a few things before
Speaker 5: I actually do that.
Speaker 3: I think that's everyone.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it feels like that, well, yeah, I'm on
Speaker 4: that journey.
Speaker 1: I'm just starting that sort of fatherhood journey at the moment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I'm really wanting to create embryos at the end
Speaker 1: of the year.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can see process.
Speaker 1: It's it's been on my mind, I would say, you
Speaker 1: know for many, many years, but it's I'm getting to
Speaker 1: that point where I feel like I'm doing a lot
Speaker 1: of work on myself and been able to really get
Speaker 1: clear and the clarity from the work that I did
Speaker 1: last year and just being with my partner now and
Speaker 1: you know, being on the same page about something is
Speaker 1: like super important and having that supporting person. So but
Speaker 1: I've always felt I would do it alone. Wow, if
Speaker 1: like my timeline never depended on a partner, And that's that, right,
Speaker 1: and that's not the pressure that you faced. But you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, for me as a man, I
Speaker 1: don't have that biological clock that is like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: I need to to think about it now. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like there's no pressure. So I've always felt like even
Speaker 1: if I was thirty five or forty, I could still
Speaker 1: do it on my own, you know, as a dad
Speaker 1: and fully be okay with that. Yeah, I'd love to
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about your career, okay, and talk
Speaker 1: about some of the highs and lows. I mean, let's
Speaker 1: go with the highest first. What have been some of
Speaker 1: the major highlights for you over the last few years
Speaker 1: that made you maybe think yeah made it or yeah,
Speaker 1: yes I did this. You know.
Speaker 5: I can answer this instantly.
Speaker 6: I go straight to interviewing Dolly Alderton a few months
Speaker 6: ago in Brisbane. Okay, my god, it was literally like, look,
Speaker 6: it could be the best thing I've ever done. Best night, Like, so,
Speaker 6: you know, I reallyd my Dolly's books, and she was
Speaker 6: a great source of comfort when I was, you know,
Speaker 6: making this transition into my thirties and this opportunity came up.
Speaker 6: This is actually this is another little side note too,
Speaker 6: when we speak about like opportunities in the context of
Speaker 6: work and in this kind of capacity or for any
Speaker 6: I guess, but I'm definitely someone who can't just sit
Speaker 6: back and expect things to come to me. If I'm
Speaker 6: a chaser Seagal, yes, if I want to, and I
Speaker 6: wish more people were part of me is like a gatekeeper,
Speaker 6: and I don't want people to because competition, But I
Speaker 6: just I just don't understand how people can sit back
Speaker 6: and expect things to come to them when you have to.
Speaker 3: We talk about that a lot.
Speaker 6: Actually, yeah, if you want to do something like I,
Speaker 6: you know, I want to do something. I wanted to
Speaker 6: host the Aria Red Carpet. I emailed them, you know,
Speaker 6: nearly a year out and was like, this is on
Speaker 6: my bucket list. I think I'd be really good at it.
Speaker 6: Now I've done it for the last two years. Dolly
Speaker 6: Olderton came up. Actually emailed the production company just to
Speaker 6: have her on my podcast, and they said they weren't
Speaker 6: sure if she was going to have any on ground
Speaker 6: press stuff, but they might need a host for Brisbane
Speaker 6: and I was like, oh, well, definitely, like keep me
Speaker 6: in the loop.
Speaker 5: Then I didn't hear anything.
Speaker 6: For like a couple of months, and I was like,
Speaker 6: I just need to I need to circle back in here.
Speaker 6: You know, we hate circling back in. We hate just
Speaker 6: you know, just checking it's an ego thing.
Speaker 2: We're like, yeah, I do it, but I like, Matt's
Speaker 2: really got to Yeah, I'm not going to asking like.
Speaker 4: I'm so good.
Speaker 1: I'm at presenting an opportunity that may not have, you know,
Speaker 1: which includes yourself.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Like it's like because I always think people aren't looking
Speaker 1: out for you, like you can look out for yourself.
Speaker 1: So it's like even you know, to get get away.
Speaker 1: It was like for me, it was about watching something,
Speaker 1: seeing an opportunity and be like, you've never had a
Speaker 1: black fellow on that show, so let me take this
Speaker 1: to you and say, hey, we're talking about country Land,
Speaker 1: why don't you have a first nation's presenter?
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: So they thought it was a greater up and then
Speaker 3: they said no, right.
Speaker 4: At first, they said that we'll think about it.
Speaker 1: Like it was like a go away and shoot your
Speaker 1: own episode basically.
Speaker 5: Like a pitch.
Speaker 1: Segment, and I did and I went and did a
Speaker 1: really good job at that, and then sort of brought
Speaker 1: it to them and went, hey, you know, and they
Speaker 1: were like, oh, I didn't realize that you would go
Speaker 1: to that length. So it's like they actually did like
Speaker 1: the idea. Sometimes it's too much work for them to
Speaker 1: even conjure up the thought because they're not thinking of you.
Speaker 1: So if you can give it to them on a
Speaker 1: silver platter, Hey, this is my experience. I think I'll
Speaker 1: be really good at hosting the Aria Red Carpet because
Speaker 1: I know ABC at EFG and then they go, okay,
Speaker 1: you're a great idea.
Speaker 6: You know, essentially with the solutions called blick an eye right, absolutely,
Speaker 6: everyone's like, you know, in their own mind, their own world.
Speaker 3: Possible exactly.
Speaker 6: And also but sometimes they just don't even consider that
Speaker 6: because they are busy doing other things. And I definitely
Speaker 6: found that even at Triple J because I broadcast mostly
Speaker 6: from Melbourne, but the main studios are in Sydney. So
Speaker 6: obviously the presenters who are in the Sydney studios because
Speaker 6: they're you know, seeing them face to face every day,
Speaker 6: probably gonna get more opportunity. But my one of my
Speaker 6: old managers used to call me her seagull because I
Speaker 6: was just up in her face.
Speaker 5: Being like you need to fill in. I'm ready.
Speaker 6: I'm like I can do this whatever, show, who's taking leave, whatever,
Speaker 6: and like I didn't.
Speaker 5: Give a shit if I was annoying.
Speaker 6: I was like determined as hell and with this dolly
Speaker 6: one like just to you know, follow up and be like, hey,
Speaker 6: how's that going, you know, like I really want to
Speaker 6: do it?
Speaker 5: And then I got it.
Speaker 6: But I wouldn't have got it if I didn't reach
Speaker 6: out to them, because they clearly didn't think of.
Speaker 5: Me for that, which is fine.
Speaker 6: But then I approved myself and you know I did
Speaker 6: this night at the Performing Art Center in Brisbane. She
Speaker 6: was an absolute delight. You know, nothing better when you
Speaker 6: meet an idol and they are just everything that you
Speaker 6: hope for.
Speaker 5: She is just superb. And it's also one of those
Speaker 5: things where it's like, I know I probably sound.
Speaker 6: Like super egotistical, but you know, like when you know
Speaker 6: that you've just like absolutely killed it, like even you
Speaker 6: did better than what you thought.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't think that.
Speaker 3: I think that's backing yourself.
Speaker 6: It's such an unnatural thing to sack out, and it's
Speaker 6: uncomfortable because you're like, oh, like it.
Speaker 1: Also validates the fact that you were so right about
Speaker 1: you being the person, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: you had that idea, you went to them and you
Speaker 1: were like, okay, I know that I can do this
Speaker 1: really well. Yeah, and then you do it and it's
Speaker 1: like I knew, I knew this, I knew this was
Speaker 1: going to happen.
Speaker 3: It's like your needs being met.
Speaker 2: Like you're like I asked for something, I got it
Speaker 2: and I crushed it, and it's like one of your
Speaker 2: needs being met. And I don't know this. It's probably
Speaker 2: a thing where it's like uncomfortable in a sense because
Speaker 2: you're not used to it. Maybe and then it happens
Speaker 2: and you're like, oh my god, yeah, like you're yeah.
Speaker 6: And again, I think as women as well, we are
Speaker 6: never wants to be like yeah, I crushed that. Like
Speaker 6: you have a board meeting, right, and a guy will
Speaker 6: come in so confident and you know that's without hesitation
Speaker 6: that they will gast themselves up.
Speaker 5: Women need to be more like that. It's even when
Speaker 5: we us.
Speaker 2: Like sit down, Yeah, that mentality with women, it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: sit down.
Speaker 6: We always apologize, even if we're chasing something up or
Speaker 6: or just wondering. Why does it have to be just
Speaker 6: wondering I'm wondering or I want to know because we
Speaker 6: think like yeah. The language again for that is like
Speaker 6: women are coming cross as like being too much, too difficult,
Speaker 6: too to manny, but no, I crushed it and she
Speaker 6: said I crushed it. I got so much feedback, like
Speaker 6: from people on TikTok. I went straight into my hotel
Speaker 6: room after it and just burst into tears because I
Speaker 6: was like, this was happy, too, unbelievable. So that's definitely
Speaker 6: like the biggest I think it is the biggest professional highlight.
Speaker 6: And I think the context of the conversation too, because
Speaker 6: we were talking about this kind of stuff of navigating
Speaker 6: life as a millennial woman in our thirties, friendships and
Speaker 6: the power of that, and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was do you think she's read your book? Well?
Speaker 6: I gave her an advanced copy, okay, so it was still,
Speaker 6: you know, a bit uncorrected. It wasn't the final version,
Speaker 6: but she has it. She knows it exists, and she's
Speaker 6: like liked my posts on it. So I never expected
Speaker 6: her to read it because she's so busy and I'm
Speaker 6: sure she has books thrown at her all the time.
Speaker 6: But even just to get those kind of compliments from her, like,
Speaker 6: you know, she just said that I was like brilliant
Speaker 6: and it's just what she needed and she was so
Speaker 6: happy and.
Speaker 5: Like she was beaming. Yeah, So I was like I
Speaker 5: did her proud and did me, everyone proud.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that was.
Speaker 5: The professional highlight.
Speaker 3: Do we want to do the low live there? Because yeah?
Speaker 4: Because it also shows yeah, the contrast.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Well it's not like a specific incident, I suppose, but
Speaker 6: I think it's that general thing of and you know,
Speaker 6: I guess you know, in my time at Triple J
Speaker 6: and I ride about it and it's not to you know,
Speaker 6: throw them under the bus or say that they're shit.
Speaker 6: But I did have some negative experiences where I felt
Speaker 6: that I wasn't managed in a capacity where I was
Speaker 6: actually being utilized for my skill set as a music presenter.
Speaker 6: I think there was my time there at the station,
Speaker 6: and it looks it does look like things are different now.
Speaker 6: And this is also stuff that they know because I
Speaker 6: like demanded an exit meeting even though I quit. You know,
Speaker 6: I didn't have to have one, but I was like,
Speaker 6: I want to sit down and tell you everything that
Speaker 6: I'm feeling because I don't want any other presenters to
Speaker 6: feel this. I didn't have to care, like I really
Speaker 6: didn't owe them anything. I didn't owe them that diligence.
Speaker 6: But I really care about music, and I care about
Speaker 6: music presenters who are genuine music presenters who. All they
Speaker 6: want is that platform to help support, especially Australian artists,
Speaker 6: and they're not given the opportunities where they could really thrive.
Speaker 6: You know, an example I guess is Triple J have
Speaker 6: a feature album every week and the interview with the
Speaker 6: feature album star will typically go to Breakfast or Drive
Speaker 6: because of the programming hierarchy. But I was always under
Speaker 6: the belief that it doesn't matter if you don't. So
Speaker 6: let's say you're doing the morning slot, so there's a
Speaker 6: music presenter who does the mornings. I did Nighttime, I
Speaker 6: did the new music show Good Nights. There is no
Speaker 6: reason why I can't do that feature album interview, especially
Speaker 6: if I'm the most knowledgeable on that artist, or if
Speaker 6: I have a particular investment from the audience on that artist.
Speaker 3: You'd want that person.
Speaker 6: It should always go to the person who is going
Speaker 6: to get the best out of the artist, not just
Speaker 6: because they're on Breakfast or Drive. And they've changed that now,
Speaker 6: like I've seen the Morning's shift get you know some
Speaker 6: feature album interviews. I got one, but I was literally
Speaker 6: told because Breakfast or Drive couldn't do it, And that
Speaker 6: wasn't nice to be told the choice. Yeah, when I
Speaker 6: ended up being an awesome interview, great feedback, and I
Speaker 6: always knew I could do it, but there were just
Speaker 6: certain processes and people, certain particular ways that didn't allow
Speaker 6: that to typically happen.
Speaker 5: So those kind of barrier having variety.
Speaker 2: And diversity with your talent, though, Like let's be honest,
Speaker 2: and then it's good to hear that they've taken that
Speaker 2: on board, like your feedback or have they really.
Speaker 6: I think so, like I've seen then this is purely
Speaker 6: just from what I see on socials and seeing other
Speaker 6: presenters who may not have typically got that opportunity and
Speaker 6: now getting it. And I'm not here to say that
Speaker 6: I am taking full credit for that, but it is important.
Speaker 6: That's why it's important to have those conversations so you
Speaker 6: can help kind of steer, you know, play a.
Speaker 5: Little part in that change totally.
Speaker 6: And you know, I could look at it, and honestly,
Speaker 6: sometimes I do look at it. I'm a little bit like, like,
Speaker 6: I love that, but I'm just still kind of grieving.
Speaker 6: I suppose like it might be a little bit of bitterness,
Speaker 6: but I think it comes from grieving opportunities that I
Speaker 6: didn't get that I knew that.
Speaker 2: They're doing that because yeah, but like, I still.
Speaker 6: Definitely had an amazing run there and I loved the
Speaker 6: program that I did, but there were just those kind
Speaker 6: of barriers, even in the context of like my chronic illness,
Speaker 6: there were some barriers and that's ultimately like what led
Speaker 6: me to quit. But I don't I'm not here saying
Speaker 6: that they're shit. I think they're an amazing institution for
Speaker 6: Australian music and the very genuine music lovers that work there.
Speaker 6: But that's the thing as well, like when you talk
Speaker 6: about a negative experience, it can be uncomfortable because you
Speaker 6: fear that people think that you're just winging or complaining
Speaker 6: or complaining and just being difficult. But it was like,
Speaker 6: you know, I want to be able to talk about
Speaker 6: those things.
Speaker 2: Well, maybe we advocate for more diversity and in even
Speaker 2: in just at Novas, and we're so open about it,
Speaker 2: and I don't feel like we come across as complaining.
Speaker 2: We're like, no, we want to see it, yeah, because
Speaker 2: we know that it can be better. Yeah, And I
Speaker 2: think that's what is our drive, is making things better.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And again it's coming to it almost with the
Speaker 6: solution and not just presenting a problem totally. Yeah, But
Speaker 6: you know, people who work in these capacities and especially media,
Speaker 6: Like we've had execs who are you know, typically white dudes.
Speaker 6: You know, they usually run the.
Speaker 1: Show, so gatekeepers and they're so ingrained in the process
Speaker 1: that they've known, like even in this place, it is
Speaker 1: so hard. Like, let's talk about the radio landscape in general.
Speaker 1: There's such a lack of diversity commercial radio that is
Speaker 1: on air that is just like frightening to me. And
Speaker 1: it doesn't reflect society, doesn't reflect the diverse country that
Speaker 1: we have.
Speaker 2: Reflect our next generation as well. Yeah, it doesn't fluidness
Speaker 2: that's happening with totally gender you know, like challenging gender norms,
Speaker 2: and like it doesn't they don't.
Speaker 1: It doesn't reflect you know, I've sort of when I
Speaker 1: ask you about that courage, you know, how did you
Speaker 1: get that courage? Because I had to really muster up
Speaker 1: the courage to have meetings with, you know, the people
Speaker 1: who are able to create this change and people in
Speaker 1: those powerful positions. I love this both hear at Nova
Speaker 1: and at CRA you know. So it was about me
Speaker 1: being like, Okay, how am I going to do this?
Speaker 1: How am I going to come across in a way
Speaker 1: that isn't like the angry black man, you know, because
Speaker 1: they will label.
Speaker 3: Me as that and I'll be an angry black woman.
Speaker 6: But again, it's like just the way that you're coined
Speaker 6: for speaking up. And I mean, like we can look
Speaker 6: at Antoinette La two recent right, Yeah, being able to
Speaker 6: actually take this huge Yeah, it's always uncomfortable, and those things,
Speaker 6: Britney Higgins, those things show us why it's uncomfortable to
Speaker 6: speak up about unpleasant things, because people don't like to
Speaker 6: hear about unpleasant things. But it's also not our job
Speaker 6: to make people feel comfortable when they've done the ship there.
Speaker 2: Happy rainbows and lollipops. You're living in de lulul come on.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of change that needs to
Speaker 1: happen in the industry.
Speaker 2: But yeah, we've unpacked a lot in this episode Gonde Places. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I can tell you, honestly, till the cows come home,
Speaker 2: I wonder what I actually don't know where that saying
Speaker 2: came from.
Speaker 4: To be fair, you got it right, though, you've got
Speaker 4: it right.
Speaker 1: Brook normally will say like a very common or well
Speaker 1: known saying, but there'll be one word that's wrong.
Speaker 4: So I was waiting for you to be like, yeah,
Speaker 4: when the sheep come home instead of the cows. But
Speaker 4: you got it, you got it.
Speaker 3: I think the color look like a cow.
Speaker 2: Cow. No, we've unpacked a lot and it's been such
Speaker 2: a pleasure. I guess chatting to you, and you know
Speaker 2: you don't. I love that you. You don't advocate advocate
Speaker 2: that you have all the answers.
Speaker 3: We don't. None of us have the answer. Who does?
Speaker 2: But don't trust them? Yeah, the journey, Yeah exactly, Gibson.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Apple cited vinegar. Are you watching that?
Speaker 6: I've done the first episode, but I finished reading the
Speaker 6: book that it's based on.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's released in twenty seven, called The Woman Who
Speaker 5: Fooled the World. Yeah, fantastic.
Speaker 6: It's from the two journalists that broke you know, the revelationtions.
Speaker 6: But yes, if someone is claiming to have ambassers for
Speaker 6: that stuff or life that they've figured life out, don't
Speaker 6: trust them.
Speaker 3: That's great advice.
Speaker 4: That's a good place to wrap.
Speaker 3: That is perfect. So where can we find your books? Plural?
Speaker 5: My book babies.
Speaker 6: They our own all good bookstores and there are some
Speaker 6: sign copies still available on book Topia as well. But
Speaker 6: I've got the link, like on my Instagram, and yeah,
Speaker 6: my short's in the show notes as well, but yeah
Speaker 6: that's where you can find it. And yeah, you can
Speaker 6: find me on Instagram if you if you want to.
Speaker 3: Hang, we'll put all that in the show notes.
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty much what all we have time for today.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening guys to Bridge having me.
Speaker 2: It's so fun, such a pleasure. Yeah, yeah we did.
Speaker 2: If you love what you hear, which I did, leave
Speaker 2: us a little rating and review.
Speaker 1: And if you want us to cover anything on the pod,
Speaker 1: just reach out via our socials. Brooks is at brook
Speaker 1: Top Blurt and Minds is at its Maady Meals and
Speaker 1: where can they find your social.
Speaker 5: Media at bridget Hustaway.
Speaker 3: Great bye bye