1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Getto Thanks for listening to the show This is Better 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: Than Yesterday. On Wednesday, Amy Shark dropped by, and it 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: was so good listening to her talk about how supportive 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: her bosses were at the Gold Coast Titans because she 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 1: was making the video and stuff like that for this 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: particular NRL team, and she said they were really great. 7 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: They came to her shows and stuff like that. They 8 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: got me thinking about, Look, we've all had horrible bosses. 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: Horrible bosses are quite the trope for a reason, because 10 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: there's always the boss that makes things difficult. But what 11 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: about a great boss. I've been thinking a lot about 12 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: the bosses I've had over my time, what it mean 13 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: to be a better boss, and what are some things 14 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: the bosses have done for me over time? And I 15 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: was surprised on some of the things that I can 16 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: thank my bosses over time for and I want to 17 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: talk about that today, but I'll be back after the break. 18 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: Get a welcome to Better Than Yesterday making it every 19 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: single episode since twenty thirteen. Thank you for being here. 20 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 1: My name's Oshi Ginsburg. I am a podcaster, I'm a 21 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: TV host, I'm an author. I'm a dad, I'm a stepdad. 22 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: I am a PVC pipe pump maker after watching too 23 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: many things on YouTube with my son. I'm someone who 24 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: nods his head while he rides his motorcycle and needs 25 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: to watch out for that because it might look like 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: I'm giving people turning in front of me a signal. Instead, 27 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: I'm listening and going this is a good Cyprus hillsong 28 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: and I'm glad you're here. Thanks for being a part 29 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: of the show. Thanks for getting on the newsletter the 30 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: linkers in the show notes. If you have anything to 31 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: say about the show, any questions, any comments, just pop 32 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: them in the comments underneath the newsletter. It's a great 33 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: way to stay in touch and I'm grateful I found it, 34 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: so you'll find a link there in the comments there. 35 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: As I mentioned, Amy Shark came on the show on Wednesday. 36 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: It's a great listen. We talk a lot about the 37 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: economics of the Australian music industry, which is quite Yeah, 38 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: it's dark listening to Shark. I'm not even sorry. But 39 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: she did talk about how supportive her boss was of 40 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: her music career. There was quite an overlap. She mentioned 41 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: that she was still editing videos for the Gold Coast 42 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: Titans while she was on tour, and it got me 43 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: thinking about the best bosses that I've ever had over 44 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: time and what they've done for me. I'm sure you've 45 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: had your fair share of less than best bosses. But 46 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: why do we need to talk about that? I don't 47 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:21,519 Speaker 1: need to go into it. Let's just say there's lots 48 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: of ways that people can be better leaders in their business. 49 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: Perhaps investing in their own leadership skills is just as 50 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: important as investing in their product. I would say, just 51 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: because you can get something done by shouting, does that 52 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,679 Speaker 1: mean it's the most sustainable way to get that thing done. 53 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: Is that going to help maintain your employees at your workplace? 54 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: I don't know. So I was thinking about and I 55 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: recommend this because I've thought a lot about this. What 56 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: are the things that my bosses at the time have 57 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: given me and what can I think them for? Someone 58 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: may say that these were the lecturers in my school 59 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: of life. My second boss was a pretty good bloke. 60 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: He was an Italian guy out of Brisbane and he 61 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: gave me a lot of autonomy. It was actually pretty cool. 62 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: I had already worked for another band, so I knew 63 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: what I was doing when it came to turning on 64 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: lights and turning off colored lights when the band played. 65 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: So I was a lighting guy, and I knew how 66 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: to rig them and focus them and make it look pretty. 67 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: And he gave me a lot of autonomy. It was like, 68 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: there you go, that's your stuff. You'd make it, and 69 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: that was kind of cool. He paid me in cash, 70 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: which I liked, and I liked the way that he operated. 71 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: I liked the way that he dealt with things like 72 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: I would often would share the drivings, often far apart 73 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: from the gigs, and so I listened to him on 74 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: the phone, talking to you know, the venue owners and 75 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: things like that about when they were loading in. And 76 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: I'd learn a lot from listening to him and letting 77 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: him you know, was cool with me. Listening to these conversations, 78 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: these business conversations I really liked. And I learned a 79 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: lot about the economics of the entertainment industry from him 80 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: because being in a band, and it's literally it's just 81 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:54,119 Speaker 1: a scale model of television production, because there's traveler's expenses, 82 00:03:54,160 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: there's content, there's timing, there's the polished product, there's where 83 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: the market want. How much do you change when you 84 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: go like you're playing a gig in Kabulcher you play 85 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: different set to the one you're playing Bunderberg because people 86 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: different people were different things. So it was really kind 87 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: of cool learning from him and learning how the money worked, 88 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: and learning how to how many gigs a week it 89 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: could do before people started to burn out, and how 90 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: far apart gig could be before it stopped being okay. 91 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: It was really he was really really cool guy. My 92 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: first boss in radio, my direct boss, was really cool. 93 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: He's the guy that hired me, whom I met while 94 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 1: doing that previous job. He was in charge of me 95 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: when I was giving out the ice cl cans on 96 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: the side of the road in Brisbane, and once I 97 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: started doing the overnight shifts, he was really cool about it. 98 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: He was really cool about, you know, supporting me doing that, 99 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: which I really liked and I was very very lucky 100 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: that he let me do that. And it did cause 101 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: a bit of a slight ruckers I think in the 102 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 1: other people that drove around the trucks because I started 103 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: doing the overnight shift perhaps before some of the people 104 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: who'd been there a little longer than I, and he 105 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: managed that pretty well, which I was really really grateful for. 106 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: He gave me a bit of space around that, which 107 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: I'm very glad for. The boss above him, though, one 108 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: of the sales bosses, he was interesting. I remember him 109 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: yelled at me once I came in for a meeting 110 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: early in the morning, and early for me. It was 111 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: nine am and I didn't have any shoes on. It 112 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: was Brisbane, it was the summertime. I didn't any shoes, 113 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: I had long shorts, had long hair. I was wearing 114 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: a Pangaya T shirt, which is Ben Eli's band before 115 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: Regurgit Data. I remember he shouted at me in front 116 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: of the whole sales store. Can't you can't wear this? 117 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: You can't just turn up with those shoes on? What 118 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: do you think? This is what you getting? Yelling at me? 119 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: Funnily enough, though, years later I ended up negotiating a 120 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: radio deal when I was working in radio again. I 121 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: negotiated my radio deal directly with him, and I reminded 122 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: him at this moment it was interesting. It was interesting. 123 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 1: My first TV boss, who I will be forever grateful to, 124 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: was an extraordinary woman called Jackie Riddell. The very first 125 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: night I ever met her, I was surreptitiously flying out 126 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: of Adelaide because I was. I had a job in 127 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: radio there, and I'd setent my tape into Channel V 128 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: already and a radio station. Adelaide didn't want Safim to 129 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: know that I was taking meetings about another gig, So 130 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: I would drive to the airport, fly take the dinner 131 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: time meeting, sleep on my brother's couch for four hours, 132 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: come home, get back to the airport, fly back to Adelaide, 133 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: get back in on Kingswood and fang it back to 134 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: the radio station and walk in and nine fifty guys, 135 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: how's your night? You know? Not was asleep on my sleep. 136 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: And the very first night that I met her, she's 137 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: basically sat down and told me, she said, look, when 138 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: you leave here, I want people to think, where the 139 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: fuck did he come from? Now she hadn't even given 140 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: me the job yet, right, but she had spelled it 141 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: out straight away, the expectation that when I was there, 142 00:06:55,640 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: I would develop so much and acquire so many skills 143 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: and get so much experience that wherever the next place 144 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: I worked at, they would just go, what the what 145 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: the fuck? Where did you come from? And it was 146 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: an incredible way to set me out, And it was 147 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: one of the most brilliant set ups that I ever 148 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: had for how I approach my work because at the 149 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: start I was able to program some music they let 150 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: me do that. I was able to come to them 151 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: with different ideas and explore and do different things, and 152 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: they were so supportive because that was what they wanted 153 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: out of it for everybody. They wanted everybody to get 154 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: so many skills and experiment so much. They learned so 155 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: many things that wherever the next job would be, people 156 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: would be blown away. Now, what they got out of 157 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: that by supporting their staff was really cool ideas people 158 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: being really willing to experiment and fail, and people really 159 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: willing to go, well, I don't really understand what's going 160 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: on here, but I'm going to help you because I 161 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: understand that we're all trying out new stuff, and we 162 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: came up with so many cool ideas and it was 163 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: so fucking you know. She really actively encouraged it for 164 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: me to try everything that I tried to and when 165 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: I fucked up, which I often did, she was very 166 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: cleverly and wisely able to communicate with me how the 167 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: fuck up manifest because I often didn't notice and speak 168 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: to me in a way that my simple brain could 169 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: understand it She's also the person that organized a shrink 170 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: for me when I came back all ptsd'd out after 171 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: nine to eleven. An amazing human and there's no way 172 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: I'd have my career that I have without her. And 173 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: sure enough, when I did get out of cable TV 174 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: and we did start doing network, that's pretty much what 175 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: people wrote in the papers, like, where the fuck did 176 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: these guys come from? What would that? What? How did 177 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: they show up? I mean, it had been nine years 178 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: of hard work, but it had been nine years of 179 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: very well supported hard work. I've spoken about my other 180 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,599 Speaker 1: first TV boss as well, the Big Boss Barried. He 181 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: was everything that you wanted a boss. He was someone 182 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: who really fought. He expected a lot from us, and 183 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: he led really strongly and would go into battle with 184 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: the board to fight for what it is we were 185 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: trying to do. And because of that, I wanted to 186 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: work as hard as I could for him. And there's 187 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: a very, very big difference between working hard because you're 188 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: afraid of your boss, or working hard beings you're afraid 189 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: of losing your job, and working hard because you really 190 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 1: want to work for this person whose idea you were 191 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: aligned with and you really want to put everything into 192 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: that's a huge gift that people like Barry and Jackie 193 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: had really really really cool. When I did get to 194 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: a network television in Australia, I got to a show 195 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: called Australian Idol, and my first boss there taught me 196 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: something pretty freaking cool about whiteboards. But I'm going to 197 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,599 Speaker 1: expand on that and just the moment because I have 198 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: to take a break. That's going to say, OK, thanks 199 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: so much for listening. After the back of talking about 200 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: Amy Shark the other day when she came in and 201 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: she talked about how her bosses at the Gold Coast 202 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: Titans were so supportive of her when she was doing 203 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: her music and the players would come to her shows 204 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: and she was even on tour still editing videos for 205 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: the team, and that she would not have been able 206 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: to do what she was able to do had her 207 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: bosses not supported her in that, which is really really 208 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: nice to hear. And I've just been thinking about the 209 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: things that I was given by the bosses that I 210 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: had over my life and my career. My first boss 211 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: in network television was an amazing guy called Greg Baness. 212 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: He's they don't make people like him anymore. Event television 213 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: is what this guy did. That was his thing. For example, 214 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: when we did the first Australian Idol Grand Final, he 215 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: just flat out and said, nah, we need more fireworks. 216 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: We need a fireworks as play. We need a second helicopter. 217 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: That's what we need. And he just went into He 218 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: went into battle. He went and fought in the network 219 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: and said, you don't understand. We have to make a 220 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: thing that people will never ever, ever ever forget. And 221 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: sure enough the show that you remember, if you saw it, 222 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: you won't forget it. That's the show he fought for. 223 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: And it was extraordinary learning that for him, like just 224 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: here's a vision and I will fight forget. I will 225 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: just absolutely, relentlessly go for it. He also taught me 226 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: a lot about managing when you've made a mistake. Just 227 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: pick up the phone, pick up the phone and call 228 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: straight away. Just pick up the phone and own it, 229 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 1: take ownership of it, and overcorrect as hard as you can. 230 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: He taught me a lot about that, rather than trying 231 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: to hide from a mistake. Because we're working in life TV, 232 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: there's no time to see if someone's going to notice 233 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: if you're fucked up. So if you made a mistake 234 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: or someone's pointed out you just you get on the 235 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: phone straight away, You go and get in front of 236 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: that person and talk to them straight away. Just be 237 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: brave and just do it, and then the problem is 238 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: hopefully going to get fixed and then you can get 239 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: on with making whatever it is you're working on. He 240 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,959 Speaker 1: also taught me if you've got a whiteboard, then you've 241 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: got a TV show, which is really cools basically about 242 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: how you plan out the arc of how a show works. 243 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,559 Speaker 1: And brilliantly Greg showed me a lot about listening because 244 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: it was on that first season of Australian Idol that 245 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: I noticed that he's these kids who are seventeen years 246 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: old and they're being watched by two million people having 247 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: their dreams crushed on a Monday, and on a Tuesday 248 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: it's tied Us Tuesday and their backs having chop tops 249 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: down at the Village Cinemas. And I kind of said 250 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: to him, man, we might have to support these guys 251 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,079 Speaker 1: a bit. They might need some psychologists around them or something, 252 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: because there's a lot to deal with if you've never 253 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: had to be stared at by every person in the 254 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: street for a week. And brilliantly the next day there 255 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: was psychological support on set. He really listened, and I'm 256 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: really so impressed by that. When I got to America, 257 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 1: it's a whole different story. I worked on CBS and 258 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: my boss there, Jeen Bresden. She'd been a show runner 259 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: and survivor. She'd like amazing human being, and again she 260 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: had this similar thing to what Barry had. She just 261 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: commanded a room and I would sit in the script 262 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: meetings with her and there's like twenty people in there 263 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: and just watching the way she handled multiple moving parts. 264 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: And when you're at that level, everyone there is the 265 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: best at the best, and I'm talking directors, you know, 266 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: camera operators, directors, photography whatever, and they all have an 267 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: idea about what it is that they want to do 268 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: or how they see it. And she was just unflinchingly 269 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: aware of their opinion and aware of their input and go, 270 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: this is the vision, this is what we're doing. It 271 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: was extraordinary and it just made me want to do 272 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: my very best for her. I was just so impressed 273 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: by the way that she handled herself, in the way 274 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: that she commanded the situation. I just wanted to get 275 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe it's something that I just want 276 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: people's approval. Maybe at the time I was dealing with 277 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: a bit of that. I don't know, but I just like, oh, 278 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: will fucking go into bat for you? Absolutely, And I 279 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: just didn't want to let her down. And I think 280 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: that was it, not from a case of like, then 281 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: she won't like me. It was just she's got this 282 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: idea of how incredible this thing could be and her 283 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: I want to help her do it, which is such 284 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: an incredible skill as a boss to give that to 285 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: an employee. When I came back to Australia for The Bachelor, 286 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,719 Speaker 1: my boss, my network boss, my TV boss. So the 287 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: other one I talked about the TV boss was the 288 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,719 Speaker 1: kind of creative boss. Well, the network boss, the one 289 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: that was signing the checks. It was a bloke called 290 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 1: Stephen Tate, same guy that gave me the Idle job, 291 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: he gave me The Bachelor, he gave me mask singer. 292 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: He's an incredible man, and Stephen supported me so much, 293 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: particularly when I got really sick. I told him what 294 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: I was going through and that I was struggling with 295 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: my mental health. But this is what I'm doing about it, 296 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: And these are the dogs I'm saying, And these are 297 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: the meds I'm taking and he just said, look, what 298 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: do you need from us? And that was just unbelievable. 299 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: To be so supported by a boss like that was really, 300 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: really freaking core. Now, I'm not going to say that 301 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: I'm a boss boss right now, but yeah, I hire people. 302 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: I talk to you about it. On this show. I 303 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: play ads because there's people that help me make the show. 304 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: Will not pay them, and we're not full time. But 305 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: there's people who've been working on my team for years now, 306 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: Andy who audio producer, and Brie who has been working 307 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: with us for a long time now. And in the 308 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: course I've had to hire people, I've had to fire people. 309 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: I do try to make sure that everyone gets what 310 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: they need, but also balance that with making sure I 311 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: get what I need. And I'd like to think I 312 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: do an okay job. I hope I do. I'm probably 313 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: less reliable than I should be. Andy has to chase 314 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: me too much, but I'd like to think that I 315 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: okay for the way that we make the show. I've 316 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: just literally come from I pitched a sitcom today. I 317 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: was sitting down. There was three of us at the table, 318 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: and two of us were a bit older. It's always 319 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: great when you're pitch an exec who's fifteen years younger 320 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: than you, but he's very freaking good at what he does. 321 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: And I just straight said to him, said that you 322 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't remember this, but both of us remember a time 323 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: when TV got made by yelling at people, and that 324 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: was just part of the course. And I'm here to 325 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: tell you nobody needs to yell at anybody to get 326 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: anything done. If you are a boss or a manager 327 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: who finds himself having to yell to get what they 328 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: need out of an employee, you may want to consider 329 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: better ways to enroll people and meeting their deadlines, because 330 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: you know what's worse than someone who doesn't meet the deadline, 331 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: it's when that person just goes fuck it and doesn't 332 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: show up to work, and now you have to go 333 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: through the passle of trying to hire another one is faked. 334 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: There's better ways to get people to do things. And 335 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: as I talk to you now, I think the commonality 336 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: between all these bosses was that there was an enormous vision, 337 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: and there was enough of a personal connection that my 338 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: bosses were able to describe to me, and they enrolled 339 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: me in the vision enough that I just didn't want 340 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: to let them down. I wanted to be there with them. 341 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: I wanted to help them make this thing because it 342 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: was such an exciting thing and I wanted to be 343 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: a part of it. There was money involved, yeah, but 344 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: it's more about that. It's more about the I don't 345 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: want to let them down, and I'm so impressed by 346 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: the way that they fight for this thing. I want 347 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: to be a part of them getting it. I want 348 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: them to have this thing that they are wanting to make. 349 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: It's really wonderful. That kind of enrollment by a leader 350 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: in businesses is really the thing that sets people apart 351 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: because I've been yelled at. You've been yelled at. It's 352 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: not nice to get yelled at. If you have to 353 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: yell at someone to get your point across, you need 354 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: a better argument, not a lowd of voice. Some guys, 355 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: with your workplace, you've got to yell at someone or 356 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: you find yourself yelling. You need to think of a 357 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: better way to get people involved and get people enrolled, 358 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: to get them to do what we're doing than shouting. 359 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: Nobody needs to shout anymore. We're not digging ditches. You 360 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: might work in the er, all right, Maybe you want 361 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: to shout in the ear because it's literally life and death. 362 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: But everywhere else, Nah, no, no, no, no, let's find out 363 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: better ways to do it and not white anting or undercutting. No, 364 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: let's just find better ways because we can also be 365 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 1: a boss of ourselves. Let's be honest. We all have 366 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: that in a boss, don't we. We all have that 367 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: person inside us that gives us permission to perform, is 368 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: the one that said, no, you can't do that, or 369 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,360 Speaker 1: yeah you can do that, or oh that's not for you, 370 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: or yeah, I reckon, you give it a shot. What 371 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: do you think. Let's see what you've got here. I'll 372 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: be here if it doesn't work out, but I'm fascinated 373 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 1: to see what's going to happen. And we've all got 374 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: that boss inside of us, and we can make that 375 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: boss a brilliant, benevolent, strong leader that's willing to fight 376 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: for a vision that you know, hopefully we're going to 377 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: help them execute, or what's could be an asshole that 378 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: we're gonna have to go to HR about. Unfortunately we're 379 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,919 Speaker 1: also HR. So yeah, we get to choose, don't we. 380 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: Thanks to sticking with me on that one. But yeah, 381 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 1: I'm glad I got to talk to you about that. 382 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you listening. Have a fantastic, fantastic weekend. 383 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 1: I'll be back here on Monday. Get on the newsletter. 384 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: Get on the newsletter and let me know what you 385 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: thought of the show. There's a little comment section there 386 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: which I'd love to hear from you about lots of 387 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 1: people help me make this show, and here are their names, 388 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: said out loud by an AI that speak differently to me. 389 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: This episode was brought to you by Andy Maher on 390 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: audio post production, Beck Syed on video post production, Toe 391 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 1: Hyder on music. Our producer is Breeze Steel, and Osher's 392 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: executive function assistant is Monica Chapman. For every episode ever. 393 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: To get on the mailing list or to get in touch, 394 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 1: head to Osheginsburg dot com.