WEBVTT - The Late Debate | 28 May 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:04.960 Lateens General Man, welcome to the Late Debase. 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:09.760 Well, it's great to have your company. I'm James Macpherson 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:13.119 with Liz Storer and Caleb Bond. We all know there's 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:16.239 a massive crime crisis in the United States, but police 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:18.400 have started arresting alligators. 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:20.040 Will show you that a little later. 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:22.560 And when we look at the papers, claims that twelve 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:26.920 hundred Chinese spies are operating on Australian soil and school 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:29.639 teachers in far North Queensland have been advised to go 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:33.400 to bed with a duress alarm at hand. We'll talk 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:35.840 about all of that when we get to the papers. 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:39.000 But last night we told you how the Chinese government 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:43.880 was intimidating Australian politicians who attended a pro Taiwanese event 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:49.120 here in Sydney. The Chinese Consulate General sent intimidating emails 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:53.120 to one federal and ten state MPs, warning their attendants 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:56.640 at a celebration for the new Taiwanese Prime Minister risked 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:01.760 harming Chinese Australian relations. Or The email warned our MPs 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:05.920 that their attendants sent the wrong messages to the outside world. 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:10.120 So our politicians have been told you always check with 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:13.720 the Chinese Communist Party before you accept any invitations to 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:17.800 meet people from your New South Wales electorates. Now, reporting 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:20.960 of all of this, including the emails that were sent 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.600 by the Chinese Consulate, these were published in the Daily 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:28.800 Telegraph obviously hit a nerve and embarrassed the Communist Party 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:32.880 because now they've taken aim at the Daily Telegraph firing 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:37.520 off this email to the newspaper. The Consulate General regrets 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:40.520 to see that your news report merely focuses on the 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:44.120 reactions of the relevant MPs. The report also lacks a 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:47.840 comprehensive and objective view of the historical background the legal 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:51.440 facts of the Taiwan question, and misrepresents the original intention 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:54.840 of this Consulate General in sending the email. It goes 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:57.520 on to say, it's hope that in the future you 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:01.720 can conduct news reporting with a professional, objective, fair and 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:06.520 responsible attitude and principle. Fancy that the Chinese Communist Party 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:09.600 being experts on the free press. Now, leaving aside the 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:12.239 fact that that email sounds to me like it was 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:16.880 written with the help of chat GPT Caleb, they're treating 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:20.280 Australian politicians and in the Australian media as if they 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:22.840 answer to the Communist Party already. 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:25.240 Well, as I said last night, we are getting a 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.720 taste here of what Australia will be like under Chinese rule. 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.280 I mean clearly they think the Daily Telegraph is the 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.360 People's Daily or something, which is of course an arm 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.680 of the Chinese Communist Party, and they can tell the media, 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:41.560 which in China, of course is state media, exactly what 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:45.919 to say. The hide of the Consulate General to think 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.600 it can dictate to not only politicians what events they 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.480 should or should not be going to, but now telling 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:55.760 free media in Australia what they should and should not 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:59.120 be reporting on and how they should be reporting on it. 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:03.840 They think think they can do anything they want without impunity. 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.200 It's pretty obvious and right through all of this is 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.720 this underlying threat that if you don't do what we 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:13.800 tell you to do, then you threaten the links between 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:17.200 Australia and China, which of course the Federal government has 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.560 been working on repairing since they came to power. What 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.120 they're saying is, if you don't do what we want 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:26.239 you to do, well, who knows, maybe we'll cut off 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:28.880 your wine exports again. Maybe we'll cut off your meat. 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:31.680 Maybe we'll cut off your barley, your wheat, et cetera, 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:34.800 et cetera. It's pretty clear what they're doing. These people 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.320 are absolute bullies. We have to understand when we deal 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.880 with China, we're not dealing with our friends in Indonesia 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:45.200 or Canada or the US. We're dealing with a communist 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.160 country that ultimately will sell us up the river any 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:49.720 opportunity they get in. 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:53.360 The irony of this like, they're not the ones harming Australia. 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:54.160 China regt. 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:59.040 I know by sending these threatening things to sitting MPs. 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.680 I love that many of the free press in Australia, 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:06.440 our media outlets. It's nearly on every single front page tomorrow, 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:09.600 as you'll see when we get there about the twelve 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:14.640 hundred China spies. So clearly we're not too worried about 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:15.760 upsetting China. 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:17.920 In fact, we rather like it. 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:22.679 But speaking of upsetting Australia, years ago, I started reading 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.880 the Global Times because of course nothing is published by 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.039 the CCP that hasn't been run through the Ministry of Truth, 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:29.839 so it's their. 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:32.920 Direct line to the people of China. 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:37.360 They regularly refer to Australia as gum on their shoe 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:42.640 Canberra is just a small dog running around yapping after Washington. 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:46.240 Our MPs don't even know what they're doing. We just 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:50.920 follow America. They have a few points of truth there, 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:57.080 but it is ridiculous how insulting their press is to Australia. 0:04:57.640 --> 0:04:59.120 On the daily. 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:04.120 I read it as comic relief because it's actually hilarious 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:08.320 the way they speak about us, our MP's, our country 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.479 and how we're such a little consequence. 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:12.760 And they're the real bosses in town. 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:15.640 So with this sort of bullying and intimidation of our 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:19.039 media and of our politicians, what are the chances that 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:21.839 the Australian government will haul the Chinese ambassador in and 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:23.920 give him a good dressing down and tell him this 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:25.880 is a democracy, this is not how we operate. 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:30.080 About as much chance as me saying I hate jumps racing, 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:33.839 I suspect, But can you imagine, like the PMO writing 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:36.720 off to China and so we weren't very happy with 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:39.400 that report you put in the Global Times or the 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:42.640 People's Daily about our country. I hope next time you 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:46.400 can deal in fair and accurate reporting. It would never happen. 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:50.359 China would write back and say, who the hell do 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:51.720 you think you are well. 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:53.960 Scott Morrison did say he wasn't that happy about COVID 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:54.640 and look where that got. 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.479 Well exactly. But this is what they're threatening is that 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:01.520 if you do anything we don't like, be retribution for it. 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:04.160 And we've been there before and we know how damaging 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.760 it was to us economically, and now they're threatening to 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:09.000 do the same thing over some MP is going to 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:13.960 celebrate the inauguration of a new president of Taiwan. If anything, 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:16.200 it indicates to us why we should go harder in 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:18.919 our support for Taiwan, and Penny Long should be on 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:22.200 a plane going to visit Taiwan and meet with the 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:25.320 new president very shortly, just to stick it up the 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:26.200 Chinese a little bit. 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:27.279 Well, that's the irony, isn't it. 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.520 The fact that we don't do anything about this and 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.320 we tolerate it simply sends the message that we are 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:34.800 prepared to be bullied, we are prepared to be pushed around, 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:37.799 and you can carry on correct erect more of the same. 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:41.640 Anyway, Let's move on to a great idea from the 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:46.160 opposition today, which is that students who are at universities 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:49.560 at the moment, foreign students in particular, who are chanting 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:53.760 from the river to the sea. Participating in these encampments 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:59.520 should have their visas revoked and be sent home. Hallelujah. Now, 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:03.120 remember many years ago when John Howard said, we will 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:07.240 decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:09.320 which they come. We seem to be much more larse 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:11.960 a fair these days. You know, have you got a 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:15.160 skill or two shore you can come in in numbers 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:17.920 going up into the millions. Oh you know you might 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.239 study something here. Good, We will have you. We ought 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:24.920 to reserve the right as a country to decide at 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:28.360 any time. And we've been having this discussion about criminals, 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:30.520 of course, who are not citizens of this country and 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.360 whether or not they should be allowed to remain here. 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:35.440 And we'll get into that again in the papers later 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.200 in the show. But surely as a country we should 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:40.560 be able to say, if you have come to Australia 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.880 as a foreign student to learn in this country, if 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:47.200 you don't want to participate in our culture and our 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:51.240 beliefs and contribute to the betterment of this country, you 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:56.360 deserve to go home. Here was James Patterson, the Opposition 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.480 Home Affairs shadow minister, talking about exactly this idea today, 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:02.200 there's no. 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:06.360 Doubt we've seen unprecedented president levels of anti semitism on campus. 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:08.480 Some of the people involved in that are very clearly 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:10.640 foreign students who are here as guests in our country. 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.640 That violated the principles of their time as visitors here, 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.200 and they should be sent home now. 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:20.120 I cannot think of any logical argument against doing this right. 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.120 We have allowed people to come here, and of course 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.040 the universities will probably kick up a stink because you know, 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.040 they can just see the dollar signs in their eyes 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.640 that come from these foreign students who pay full toy dots. 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:34.400 But we should absolutely reserve the right to decide that 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:36.600 if you have come here on a visa, which is 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.640 us gifting you the opportunity to spend time in our country, 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.040 that if you do things we don't like, you're on 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:44.320 the next plane home, pack your bags and get the 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:44.959 hell out of here. 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.000 I don't see why foreign students should be allowed to 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.840 participate in any protests in Australia. 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:51.560 That's going a little bit fast. 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:52.839 Will why not go the whole lot. 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:56.560 I don't have opinions they can well about Australia. 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:57.559 No free speech. 0:08:57.640 --> 0:08:59.480 No, you can have free speech, but you're not entitled 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.040 to protest on domestic issues in Australia if you're a 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:02.640 foreign citism. 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:04.720 Well this isn't a domestic issue all right. 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:08.920 But putting that aside, because hornets, there's there. The Greek 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:11.600 City Times just reported this evening that the Greek government 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:16.240 have told nine university students from other parts of Europe 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:20.600 that they're out after participating in a pro Palestinian protest there. 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.720 So this is not unprecedented. If Australia did this, grease 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:26.120 have just announce that they're doing the exact same thing. 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:28.000 I all just want to look at the chain of 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:31.520 command here, because we know that the campuses, the faculties, 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.960 even the chancellors of these universities have done fat nothing 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:41.680 about that. So why then should students be punished so 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:46.880 harshly when even professors at their universities, some of which 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:52.800 have participated, both Melbourne and Sydney Universities, major elite universities 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:57.400 in our nation, have taken it upon themselves to kick 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:03.679 off either visiting lecturers from Israel. They have been basically 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:08.840 helping out the mob and succumbing to this mob like mentality. 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:12.360 So of course kids getting caught up in this think, oh, 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:16.000 we're fighting a righteous cause. Nobody seems to have any 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:20.880 any compunction to stomp us out. Why shouldn't we keep going? 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:22.960 And of course it would, you'd have your work cut 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.520 out for you to single out ringleaders because many of 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:29.280 these kids, and as we've shown via pop boxes that 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:31.920 we've shown on this show before, they kind of have 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:33.480 no idea why they're there. 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.920 So to then be kicked out of the country simply. 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:40.480 Because you've participated and may have marched with them as 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:44.040 opposing as opposed to being one of the main activists 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:48.679 driving the cause, I think it's it's a little bit 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.320 more complicated than what we've heard. 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:53.920 So who cares? Who cares? I don't care. If you 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:56.160 didn't know why you were there, you participated in it, 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:57.679 get the hell out, you're. 0:10:57.520 --> 0:10:59.880 Only that's the only way they could enforce it. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:04.760 If it's simply criticizing the Israeli government or you. 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.559 Know, the context of you're at a rally or an 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:11.200 encampment or whatever, that its overall message is not just 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:13.640 we've got a bit of beef with net and Yahoo. 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.920 It is anti Israeli. It's anti Jewish. Now if you 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:20.680 stay there for days, and that's what an encampment is, right. 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.440 I don't care whether English is your second language, you 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.400 only know five words of English. It doesn't matter. You 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:30.000 were there and you participated, and you are here only 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:33.240 by the good grace of this country allowing you in. 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.360 We should have the reserve the right to decide we 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:39.880 kick you in or out by any means, any reason 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:42.520 we deem necessary. And if we don't like the look 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:44.320 at you, I don't care if they say, you know, 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:47.000 your eyes are too wonky. You should be kicked out 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.600 because the government deems you're not someone of sound character to. 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:53.080 Be here, and kick out all the chancellors as well. 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:55.120 I agree, put here on the plane back with them. 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:55.520 Sea. 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.480 Well, it's now almost eight months since terrorists launched an 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:01.720 attack on Israeli civilians, sparking that war in the Middle East, 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:05.559 and of course the shocking antisemitism here in Australia. Earlier 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:09.120 this evening, Sky News premiered Never Again the Fight Against 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:14.160 Anti Semitism, a documentary hosted by former Australian Treasurer Josh Friedenberg. Now, 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.760 as part of that documentary, he spoke to a ninety 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:18.920 three year old Holocaust survivor Have a. 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:24.280 Look Australia has been wonderful company. I'm telling no, all 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:27.520 of a sudden we feel threatened. 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:32.480 And it's not just the younger Jewish generation. Ninety three 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:37.800 year old Holocaust survivor Egon Sonoshein lives in Sydney. He's 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:42.120 endured the very worst of anti Semitism and he's extremely 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:44.160 alarmed at its resurgence. 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:46.600 Do you feel scared? 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:53.400 Absolutely, I'm scared and upset and I never thought it 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:57.720 in my lifetime I will be able to experience such 0:12:57.720 --> 0:12:58.000 a thing. 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:04.560 And behind the documentary, Josh Fredenberger joins us now, Josh, welcome, 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.240 this was such an important documentary to make, to be 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.400 with you, It's great to have your company as well. 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.079 There's a lot to talk about with regards this documentary, 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:14.920 but I wanted to ask you about this ninety three 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:18.640 year old Holocaust survivor. What was it like talking to 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.920 him and hearing how scared he is living in Australia 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:23.160 in twenty twenty four. 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:32.319 Well, James Egon was inspirational, he was dignified and as 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:36.480 you could see, he was eloquent. He summed up the 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.840 situation facing so many Austrange Jews right now. This was 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:45.319 somebody who came from Europe after the horrors of the Holocaust, 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:50.319 was warmly embraced by this great country, and now suddenly, 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.880 into his nineties, he's feeling unsafe and threatened. And that's 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:58.400 just not on. It's a sign, if we needed another 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:02.839 sign of a comprehendi failure of leadership in this country, 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:07.320 from government, from our institutions, from law enforcement that's seen 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:11.520 this explosion of anti Semitism in the last eight months 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.520 since the tragedy of October the seventh. 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:17.800 Indeed, as I watched Josh, I couldn't help but agree 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.160 with John Howard and Julia Gillard, both of whom expressed 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.120 shock at the reaction in Australia to the events of 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:37.720 October seven. Here's some of what they had to say. 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.480 I'd never hear was like, where the Jews or. 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:45.360 Whatever the word that they were words of hate? 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:50.560 Surely in the modern world, in modern Australia were better 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:50.920 than that. 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:55.000 Well, as you just heard Julia Gillard say, we're supposed 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.320 to be better than that, but clearly our country is 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:58.680 not better than that. 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:00.760 So how is our entry changed. 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:05.920 Well, I think it's fair to say everyone's been shocked 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:10.360 by the events in Australia since October the seventh, And 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.360 who would have thought that after the massacre of twelve 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.960 hundred innocent people in Israel, the burning of bodies, the 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:24.080 beheading of people, the rape, the torture people in this 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:28.400 country outside our national icon, the Sydney Opera House would 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:32.960 be celebrating just hours after those events, and well before 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:38.560 Israel had even begun its attempt to rescue its hostages 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:43.120 from Gaza. But this is not an isolated incident. What 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:47.000 we saw outside the Opera House we saw also in 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:51.840 the Jewish suburb of Corfield where there was a violent demonstration. 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.760 We've seen the docks of six hundred Jewish creatives, including 0:15:56.120 --> 0:16:00.240 the well known and regarded, well regarded Debrah Conway. We've 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:04.479 seen the campus camps of hate, and we've seen Jewish 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:09.960 businesses being boycotted simply because their owners are Jewish. And 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:13.520 that's just not on. So, you know, it's hard to 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:17.480 actually explain, James, why this is all happening other than 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:23.840 people not having any sense of objectivity and not having 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:27.760 any sense of history and the lesson of history from 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:29.800 where anti Semitism can lead. 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.320 And it kind of begs the question, Josh, how we 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:35.160 got to this point and you talked to the Prime 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.720 Minister of course tonight about his take on all of this. 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:40.960 He talked a little bit about the fact that you know, 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.880 we have to stamp out and call out anti Semitism 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:45.000 everywhere we see it. 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:48.800 Here he is we're targeting of the business because it 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:53.280 happens to be owned by someone who happens to be Jewish, 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:59.440 is in my view, anathema to what Australia represents. It's 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:03.400 not who we are and that's why we need to 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.000 call out anti semitism when we see it. 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:07.200 Now. 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.160 The PM said all the right things to you in 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.439 the doco, but you, and certainly John Howard in the 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:17.600 documentary tonight and I and many others have been quite 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:22.240 critical of him and his government's response to anti semitism, 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.560 basically not stemming it since what happened on the steps 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:28.600 of the Opera House on October the ninth. It's a 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:32.280 lack of leadership. I suppose having sat down with the 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:36.000 Prime Minister and discussed this, do you get the impression 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:40.320 that he actually cares and actually wants to do something 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:43.280 about it, or is it saying the right words to 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:44.200 the right audience. 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.720 Well, I don't think he's backing up the words with action. 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.960 And while I had hope he'd comprehend the gravity of 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.040 the situation, I'd like to see a lot stronger action 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:02.600 from here. We can't just replay what we've seen over 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.159 the last eight months for the next eight months. We 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:09.440 need a reset from government. We need to see strong, 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:14.520 decisive leadership because, as John Howard did say in the documentary, 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.600 the Prime Minister of the day sets the tone for 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.720 the country and there have been red lines that have 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.160 been clearly crossed and the law, even the Prime Minister 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:28.840 himself acknowledged, is not being enforced in this country. How 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:32.439 can you have people preaching g hat, How can you 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:36.640 have the events outside the Opera House and in Corefield 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:40.600 and nobody being charged as a result. That begs the 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:45.120 question where where is our law enforcement? Where is our 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:49.680 Human Rights Commission? And where is our government when such 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:53.879 terrible things have happened and people are living in fear 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.199 And this is not nineteen thirty four, this is twenty 0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:01.160 twenty four in Australia, and as Julie Gillard said, we're 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:03.919 much better than that. And there are so many people 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:06.719 in this documentary from all walks of life who are 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:10.040 ringing the alarm bell, not least of whom was Sir 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:14.040 Peter Cosgrove, one of the most distinguished and decorated Australians, 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:18.760 who said Hitler would be proud of the violent anti 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:22.080 semitism that we're now seeing in Australia. If that's not 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.480 a warning sign to our leaders that they have to 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:26.360 lift their game, I don't know what is. 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:30.000 Let's step into fantasyland for a little minute and just 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.320 imagine that you're still the Member for ku Yong and 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:36.399 you are Prime Minister. If I know, it's a chuckle 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:38.320 and I won't ask you the question if you're going 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.639 to run again, We've been there before. But let's imagine 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:44.640 that you're currently Prime minister. You talk about this reset, 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:48.640 the country's reset in terms of anti Semitism, What would 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:51.600 you do as leader of the country to stem, and 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.480 I suppose more importantly, reverse the rise of anti Semitism 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:56.080 that we've seen. 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.600 Well, firstly, for all those headlines writers for tomorrow, I'm not, 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.280 you know, the leader of the country, and I'm enjoying 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.560 life outside of politics. But what I do think we 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.800 need is both hard and soft power. More of that. 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:16.000 When I talk about hard power, it's the law enforcement. 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:20.360 I think, you know, we've we've got to see people 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.919 face the consequences for incitement to violence and to hate. 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:29.399 And Caleb, you Liz James have every night been talking 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.520 about what's happening on our university campuses. And I have 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:39.640 to tell you, I'm so disappointed and by the failure 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:44.880 of our university leadership, chancellors and vice chancellors to actually 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:49.840 take the moral high ground and to to actually take 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:55.159 on the mob which cannot be appeased in these on 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:57.760 these campuses. So I'd like to see people who say 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:01.520 the river from the River to the Palestine to be free, 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:05.720 I would like to see them pay, to face sanctions, 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:10.640 to face the consequences of that statement, because that statement 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:13.400 is calling for the abolition of the state of Israel. 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:15.720 And with respect to soft power, I'd like to see 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:20.040 more education, because clearly there's a gap, particularly with our 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.720 young people, in their understanding, with their comprehension, with their 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:27.160 knowledge of World War II, of the Holocaust, and indeed 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:32.080 of the history of the Middle East. Because Israel's existence 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:36.000 did not start in nineteen forty eight. It goes back 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:40.280 thousands of years from a Jewish connection to the state 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.400 of Israel, and you can see that in the western 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:48.600 wall there. And whether it's the use of lawfare in 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:53.480 the ICC and the ICJ calling Israel a genocidal state, 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:58.399 whether it's the allegation that Israel is apartheid state, or 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:01.400 whether it's the notion that Israel as a colonial estate, 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:07.040 all of those statements are factually inaccurate and wrong, and 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:11.600 they're all designed to delegitimize the State of Israel. And 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:15.000 that is not in the world's interests, and it's certainly 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:18.840 not in Australia's interest because our bilateral relationship has been 0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:23.200 strong and as we're heard in the program, Zionism and 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:27.080 believing in the state of Israel is something that a 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:29.080 number of very good people believe in. 0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:31.159 Josh. 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:35.280 The documentary effectively knits together many of the instances of 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:39.320 due hatred in Australia since October seven. You asked the 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:43.359 Prime Minister whether we need our insultant laws incitement laws 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:48.320 rather to be beefed up given they're proving useless For 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:50.400 those viewers at home who. 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:53.400 Didn't hear what he had to say in reply here he. 0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:57.639 Is one of my concerns is that there are laws 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:03.240 there that I don't think been implemented. Let's reinforce what's there. 0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:06.720 If people are breaking the law, then they should be prosecuted. 0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:08.000 That's why we have laws. 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:14.600 But it's already very obvious these laws simply aren't working. 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:17.679