WEBVTT - Missing Pieces 0:00:05.991 --> 0:00:07.481 A Poche Production. 0:00:13.561 --> 0:00:16.561 Welcome back to What Happened to Samantha Murphy. A person 0:00:16.621 --> 0:00:22.401 has been arrested and charged for Samantha's alleged murder in 2024. 0:00:22.401 --> 0:00:25.441 There was an original suppression order on the accused person 0:00:25.681 --> 0:00:29.001 and it was lifted back in 2024. He's since been 0:00:29.041 --> 0:00:33.351 named as now 24-year-old Patrick Stevenson. In this podcast, we 0:00:33.391 --> 0:00:36.801 make no assertions that Mr Stevenson had anything to do 0:00:36.841 --> 0:00:40.701 with Samantha's disappearance. This podcast is a retelling of the 0:00:40.741 --> 0:00:44.591 show that was initially released in 2024 at the time 0:00:44.851 --> 0:00:51.971 of Samantha's disappearance. In this podcast, we're trying to put 0:00:52.010 --> 0:00:55.971 together some of the missing pieces about 51-year-old Samantha Murphy, 0:00:56.571 --> 0:00:59.180 who went for a run one Sunday morning in February 0:00:59.700 --> 0:01:04.310 and never came home. It's left a family devastated and 0:01:04.351 --> 0:01:07.771 a community searching for answers. And of course, the whole 0:01:07.791 --> 0:01:12.511 of Australia wondering what happened to Sam Murphy. Then a 0:01:12.530 --> 0:01:16.371 month later, the man is arrested and charged for her murder. 0:01:16.651 --> 0:01:22.420 We have identified through a very painstaking methodical investigation an offender. 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:24.860 We've charged that person with murder. 0:01:25.401 --> 0:01:28.321 At the time of publishing this episode, that man has 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:36.121 not cooperated with police. We called this podcast Missing Pieces because, 0:01:36.721 --> 0:01:39.700 like when you put together a jigsaw, you normally start 0:01:39.721 --> 0:01:42.241 with a picture on the front of the box. That 0:01:42.291 --> 0:01:45.291 picture becomes, if you like, the guide to what you're building. 0:01:46.250 --> 0:01:49.350 Then normally you start with the outside pieces, the corners, 0:01:49.991 --> 0:01:52.971 that help you build the frame. The frame in this 0:01:53.051 --> 0:01:56.471 case is the bits we know about Samantha Murphy's disappearance. 0:01:57.591 --> 0:01:59.751 We know she left her house at 7am and went 0:01:59.791 --> 0:02:03.151 for a 14k run. which would normally take her a 0:02:03.211 --> 0:02:07.411 little over an hour. She failed to return home. Let's 0:02:07.451 --> 0:02:11.471 call that piece one. Then her digital footprint is found 0:02:11.931 --> 0:02:15.961 inside a Mount Clare running track, seven kilometres from her house. 0:02:16.421 --> 0:02:21.021 Let's call that piece two. Piece three is the evidence 0:02:21.101 --> 0:02:24.701 police have on the person they arrested and charged. That's 0:02:24.761 --> 0:02:27.481 a piece that we probably won't know about for some time. 0:02:28.881 --> 0:02:31.301 And in this episode, that's the piece we're going to 0:02:31.361 --> 0:02:37.031 try to explore. Former Victorian police detective Damien Marrett is 0:02:37.071 --> 0:02:38.770 an expert in these sort of cases. 0:02:39.770 --> 0:02:43.611 Yeah, so I'm Damien Marrett, a former Victorian police detective 0:02:44.751 --> 0:02:46.601 and currently a private investigator. 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.081 Very early on in the first three weeks, Damien was 0:02:49.121 --> 0:02:52.520 part of the Under Investigation Channel 9 program that looked 0:02:52.561 --> 0:02:56.101 into Samantha's disappearance. And he had some of his own 0:02:56.180 --> 0:02:59.201 thoughts at the time. We have to assume, Dewey, that 0:02:59.341 --> 0:03:01.541 someone knew that she was on that run that morning. 0:03:01.971 --> 0:03:05.441 Somebody either knew where she'd run past and waited. or 0:03:05.481 --> 0:03:08.900 there were more than one person, one was behind following, 0:03:09.581 --> 0:03:13.221 another one was waiting up further, or, you know, she 0:03:13.261 --> 0:03:16.661 was followed in there. What I believe is this was 0:03:16.740 --> 0:03:20.840 targeted and seven kilometres in an incident has happened. And 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:24.821 obviously that's a pretty important incident because that's where police 0:03:24.861 --> 0:03:28.560 have told us that she got to and that's where 0:03:28.621 --> 0:03:33.340 searches are continuing. So what happened after that and who 0:03:33.381 --> 0:03:33.901 was involved? 0:03:34.351 --> 0:03:40.130 This was before anyone had been arrested and charged. Can 0:03:40.171 --> 0:03:43.451 you talk to me, in your previous life as a detective, 0:03:44.611 --> 0:03:48.421 what would the steps have been to arrest the suspect 0:03:48.681 --> 0:03:51.301 or the alleged murderer? 0:03:51.861 --> 0:03:55.441 Well, look, it seems, and I kind of said this 0:03:55.521 --> 0:04:00.371 at the time we did the under-investigation show, that... It 0:04:00.431 --> 0:04:03.991 looked as though police had a good suspect from very 0:04:04.051 --> 0:04:07.751 early on. Now, whether that's been a mix of the 0:04:07.851 --> 0:04:11.781 data from the telephones and the watch she was wearing, 0:04:13.901 --> 0:04:18.981 as well as possible eyewitnesses to certain events that took place. 0:04:19.681 --> 0:04:22.260 But it was kind of obvious, and it's even more 0:04:22.380 --> 0:04:26.671 obvious looking back in hindsight, that they probably pretty much 0:04:26.751 --> 0:04:28.251 were focused on this person. 0:04:28.491 --> 0:04:31.291 It seemed evidence, we've had a couple of chats on 0:04:31.311 --> 0:04:34.051 the phone, but it seemed evidence when they started saying 0:04:34.130 --> 0:04:37.911 things like, the husband is not a suspect. 0:04:39.351 --> 0:04:44.561 Yeah, look, you generally wouldn't do that. You may sort of, 0:04:45.091 --> 0:04:48.710 I mean, police play these games all the time using 0:04:48.731 --> 0:04:53.471 the media. They might try and make a suspect relax, 0:04:54.311 --> 0:04:58.231 think that they're looking somewhere else so that if phones 0:04:58.271 --> 0:05:03.461 are off or they're being followed, they're less paranoid. But 0:05:03.641 --> 0:05:06.861 in this case, you wouldn't say, okay, the husband had 0:05:06.940 --> 0:05:08.781 nothing to do with it if they thought that he 0:05:09.141 --> 0:05:12.001 could have. So for them to come out and say that, 0:05:12.021 --> 0:05:15.121 it's kind of obvious he wasn't a suspect. He would 0:05:15.161 --> 0:05:17.531 have been looked at, no doubt, but no. 0:05:17.541 --> 0:05:22.731 Okay. There was a bit said early in the piece, 0:05:23.081 --> 0:05:27.801 before they arrested anyone, around that police believed there was 0:05:27.901 --> 0:05:28.940 more than one person. 0:05:29.380 --> 0:05:33.201 Yeah, I don't know whether that was just the way 0:05:33.261 --> 0:05:38.401 they worded it, meaning to cart the body away. When 0:05:38.501 --> 0:05:44.791 I re-listened to those comments... We're looking into a number of. 0:05:46.171 --> 0:05:48.891 people from information that we have received and all I 0:05:48.911 --> 0:05:52.501 can say is that our avenues are taking us down 0:05:52.541 --> 0:05:54.401 certain directions and we're following everything. 0:05:54.861 --> 0:05:57.901 It sounds like they were just using the word one 0:05:57.981 --> 0:06:02.580 or more, you know, and they wouldn't have known exactly, 0:06:02.661 --> 0:06:04.981 even if they had a suspect back at that time, 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.251 they wouldn't have known whether somebody else did assist him 0:06:08.491 --> 0:06:11.991 in any way. So I don't think they were actually 0:06:12.190 --> 0:06:13.431 saying there's two. 0:06:14.111 --> 0:06:19.311 Equally, the car that had damage to it played an 0:06:19.391 --> 0:06:23.751 important part. Do we know whether Patrick Stevenson, who's the 0:06:23.791 --> 0:06:27.221 man accused of her murder, was he driving a damaged car, 0:06:27.231 --> 0:06:27.481 do you know? 0:06:27.731 --> 0:06:32.260 Well, yeah, I don't know for sure. But when that 0:06:32.341 --> 0:06:35.041 press conference took place, and it actually took place on 0:06:35.081 --> 0:06:38.761 the day we were filming under investigation, so it was 0:06:38.801 --> 0:06:41.601 a little bit hard. We were tossing back and forth, 0:06:41.741 --> 0:06:44.541 you know, listening to what came out of that. But 0:06:44.981 --> 0:06:47.341 that was one of the points I said, well, for 0:06:47.741 --> 0:06:52.190 police to say we're looking for a damaged car, obviously 0:06:52.271 --> 0:06:56.130 that's either come from a witness or somebody who's seen 0:06:56.171 --> 0:06:59.731 that car or they've connected that car to the suspect 0:06:59.911 --> 0:07:01.091 knowing that it was damaged. 0:07:01.471 --> 0:07:03.950 From what we understand, he was an electrician. He has 0:07:04.011 --> 0:07:06.711 a ute. It's a white vehicle. We know that. And 0:07:06.791 --> 0:07:09.771 police were saying- There was a white damaged car, so 0:07:09.791 --> 0:07:12.391 we don't know whether his car's damaged or not. You know, 0:07:12.431 --> 0:07:14.591 this podcast is called Missing Pieces, and some of these 0:07:14.631 --> 0:07:18.671 missing pieces are suddenly starting sort of to come together. 0:07:20.171 --> 0:07:23.851 Yeah. Look, I think once it sort of does hit 0:07:23.911 --> 0:07:29.251 the court proceedings and things like that, I think we're 0:07:29.271 --> 0:07:32.341 going to be surprised how much the police actually have 0:07:32.401 --> 0:07:32.981 already got. 0:07:34.211 --> 0:07:36.911 It's important here to mention that although someone has been 0:07:36.951 --> 0:07:41.271 charged and arrested with Samantha's murder, until that person is convicted, 0:07:41.811 --> 0:07:44.571 he is presumed innocent. A lot of what we'll talk 0:07:44.611 --> 0:07:47.391 about in this episode is what Damien thinks, given his 0:07:47.431 --> 0:07:50.691 past experience. Of course, the police know far more than 0:07:50.771 --> 0:07:54.251 we do about the evidence they hold and how solid 0:07:54.291 --> 0:08:01.101 it is. Talk me through... At the point you're a 0:08:01.121 --> 0:08:04.601 copper and you know that you're about to arrest someone, 0:08:04.741 --> 0:08:06.791 what are the steps you go through as a police 0:08:06.831 --> 0:08:10.031 officer to actually turn up at someone's house at 6am 0:08:10.151 --> 0:08:10.651 in the morning? 0:08:12.111 --> 0:08:16.711 Yeah, well, you know, they've obviously got what they need. 0:08:18.351 --> 0:08:21.221 I'm not saying they've got the whole brief sorted or 0:08:21.281 --> 0:08:24.801 anything like that, but they're pretty sure that they've got 0:08:24.841 --> 0:08:29.121 the right person. and definitely enough to interview that person 0:08:29.351 --> 0:08:33.611 as a suspect. So, look, pulling him in at 6 0:08:33.611 --> 0:08:36.551 o'clock in the morning, I wouldn't read too much into that. 0:08:37.011 --> 0:08:41.711 That's just a convenient time to get somebody by surprise 0:08:42.131 --> 0:08:46.151 and to make sure that they're at home. So, you know, 0:08:46.171 --> 0:08:51.311 they've arrested him. They've obviously spoken to him, interviewed him. 0:08:51.821 --> 0:08:57.811 He sounds like he's not cooperating. fully with police. But 0:08:58.031 --> 0:09:02.101 for them to then go and lock him up, charge 0:09:02.121 --> 0:09:04.661 him and lock him up, they've obviously got a fair 0:09:04.721 --> 0:09:06.361 bit of evidence already. 0:09:07.001 --> 0:09:09.141 My guess is they would have been surveilling him too 0:09:09.241 --> 0:09:12.861 because it seems like he wasn't at his parents' place, 0:09:12.901 --> 0:09:16.091 which is actually just across the road from near where 0:09:16.171 --> 0:09:20.331 Samantha went missing. Equally, he wasn't at his girlfriend's house. 0:09:20.371 --> 0:09:22.231 They were at the house sitting someone else's house. 0:09:23.011 --> 0:09:26.471 If he was, say, at the parents' house around the 0:09:26.511 --> 0:09:30.921 time that this happened, and remember, he probably is visiting 0:09:31.001 --> 0:09:35.201 the parents' house back and forward, depending on where he 0:09:35.281 --> 0:09:39.581 permanently lives. But I'd say the police would have searched 0:09:39.641 --> 0:09:42.461 the parents' house as well, would have searched the house 0:09:42.531 --> 0:09:45.431 that he's staying in, would have even searched the girlfriend's house. 0:09:47.121 --> 0:09:50.141 Why not charge him straight away? So they arrested him 0:09:50.341 --> 0:09:52.701 and brought him in as a suspect, but they didn't 0:09:52.721 --> 0:09:54.991 charge him straight away. And, you know, in chatting to 0:09:55.011 --> 0:09:56.771 a whole bunch of people that are in the industry, 0:09:57.311 --> 0:09:59.331 we found that a little weird. Is that weird or 0:09:59.391 --> 0:10:00.971 is that normal procedure? 0:10:01.531 --> 0:10:04.611 Well, you know, the police would have been waiting for 0:10:04.791 --> 0:10:07.841 all the data to come through. They would have wanted 0:10:07.921 --> 0:10:11.261 to understand that data. And they also would have been 0:10:11.401 --> 0:10:15.191 putting his own phone data into the system to see 0:10:15.231 --> 0:10:18.571 where he was at that time. So that all takes time. 0:10:18.651 --> 0:10:21.411 It doesn't happen straight away they may have been trying 0:10:21.451 --> 0:10:24.331 to even get um you know the google data and 0:10:24.371 --> 0:10:27.891 things like that which can take even longer um so 0:10:28.491 --> 0:10:31.321 you know i mean to run out and charge somebody 0:10:31.341 --> 0:10:35.801 um just because you think he's a good suspect i 0:10:35.841 --> 0:10:38.701 mean you wait until you've got everything in line they 0:10:38.741 --> 0:10:42.721 would have made the decision that other persons weren't in 0:10:42.781 --> 0:10:49.111 danger and taken that into account but um yeah Basically, 0:10:49.451 --> 0:10:53.451 it happens when you've got sufficient evidence to hold him 0:10:53.781 --> 0:10:58.841 inside and then now we'll be gathering everything and cleaning 0:10:58.881 --> 0:11:01.701 it all up, putting it into a hand-up brief and 0:11:01.781 --> 0:11:02.781 going before the courts. 0:11:03.021 --> 0:11:06.201 Do the police, the lead detectives on this particular case, 0:11:06.771 --> 0:11:08.851 do they have to get approval to arrest someone or 0:11:08.891 --> 0:11:11.271 they just go to their higher-ups and have a conversation? 0:11:11.291 --> 0:11:13.551 Yeah, no, they just go to their higher-ups and have 0:11:13.591 --> 0:11:17.431 a conversation, their boss or their supervisors. might have been 0:11:17.471 --> 0:11:20.281 saying things like, yeah, if you get this piece, yeah, 0:11:20.321 --> 0:11:25.341 we've got enough. So it's not like the American system 0:11:26.341 --> 0:11:28.681 where you have to go to your DA and, you know, 0:11:29.061 --> 0:11:31.031 we want to arrest this bloke and then go to 0:11:31.071 --> 0:11:34.191 a judge and get an arrest warrant. You basically pick 0:11:34.271 --> 0:11:38.111 up somebody and arrest them. If you feel that you've 0:11:38.131 --> 0:11:41.411 got enough, you interview them and you lay charges. You 0:11:41.471 --> 0:11:44.221 either give them bail or you don't. In cases like this, 0:11:44.581 --> 0:11:45.741 you obviously don't get bail. 0:11:46.331 --> 0:11:49.871 We don't know how police ended up landing on him 0:11:50.331 --> 0:11:55.611 as the alleged killer of Sam. Um, however, what we, 0:11:56.361 --> 0:11:59.361 we can assume some things, what is most likely do 0:11:59.401 --> 0:12:02.541 you think on the way police might've tracked him down? 0:12:03.081 --> 0:12:06.461 Something, uh, sort of changed in the way police were 0:12:06.581 --> 0:12:10.941 carrying out their, um, media briefings, um, sort of in that, um, 0:12:11.441 --> 0:12:15.571 two to three week period. Um, They sort of pulled 0:12:15.611 --> 0:12:19.291 back a lot from the searches. They went less vocal. 0:12:20.491 --> 0:12:23.511 And so I would say something's happened around that time 0:12:24.031 --> 0:12:27.351 for them to start looking very closely at this guy. Now, 0:12:28.091 --> 0:12:34.181 whether that's been from information received, whether he has told somebody, 0:12:34.681 --> 0:12:37.941 whether it's been that somebody saw him leaving the park 0:12:37.981 --> 0:12:40.511 at that time and then the data has backed it up, 0:12:42.341 --> 0:12:44.921 You know, all these things would have come into play, 0:12:44.981 --> 0:12:51.911 but it kind of sounds like either it was the 0:12:51.991 --> 0:12:56.171 data that put him inside that reserve near her or 0:12:56.931 --> 0:12:59.851 there's been a witness that's come forward with information. 0:13:00.951 --> 0:13:05.621 And we heard on under investigation, it was actually really 0:13:05.761 --> 0:13:09.911 eye-opening to me where police... were maybe less focused for 0:13:09.991 --> 0:13:14.530 then a little while on Samantha's mobile phone data, but 0:13:14.711 --> 0:13:19.261 more so in the data that was being captured from 0:13:19.321 --> 0:13:21.001 anyone else in that surrounding area. 0:13:21.541 --> 0:13:25.081 Yeah, I mean, it's a really good... You know, data 0:13:25.121 --> 0:13:29.911 nowadays is brilliant stuff. You know, like, obviously, I didn't 0:13:29.951 --> 0:13:31.751 have it in my day. It would have made a 0:13:31.791 --> 0:13:35.131 lot of things a lot easier. But if you know 0:13:35.451 --> 0:13:41.261 where her data stopped... and something occurred and they say 0:13:41.281 --> 0:13:44.861 that was at that seven kilometre mark, then it's quite 0:13:45.041 --> 0:13:49.061 easy to look at any other data that's coming out 0:13:49.081 --> 0:13:52.501 of the reserve around that time. And if there's one 0:13:52.541 --> 0:13:55.521 or two people in the middle of that reserve within 0:13:55.581 --> 0:13:59.121 metres from where her phone stopped, it's a pretty good indicator. 0:14:01.701 --> 0:14:04.461 What we've seen in the last couple of days, in fact, 0:14:04.911 --> 0:14:07.831 literally it's been over the weekend, that a lot of 0:14:07.911 --> 0:14:11.741 people have started now to come out going, I was 0:14:11.781 --> 0:14:14.061 with him the night before he was at a part, 0:14:14.101 --> 0:14:17.921 he was at a club. Um, the, the allegations are 0:14:17.941 --> 0:14:19.561 that he was a white powder on a phone. Um, 0:14:22.021 --> 0:14:25.041 that now, I guess it's harder to keep a secret 0:14:25.141 --> 0:14:26.621 once police have made an arrest. 0:14:26.741 --> 0:14:26.981 Right. 0:14:27.821 --> 0:14:28.701 Yeah. Yeah. 0:14:29.081 --> 0:14:33.401 Uh, look, everything he was up to, uh, in those days, um, 0:14:34.261 --> 0:14:35.901 I'd say you're going to hear a hell of a 0:14:35.931 --> 0:14:39.101 lot of stuff about him now. There's going to be 0:14:39.161 --> 0:14:43.261 people who were friends of his or didn't like him. 0:14:45.161 --> 0:14:47.821 People will come out of the woodwork and pretty much 0:14:48.221 --> 0:14:50.041 he won't have any secrets. 0:14:50.781 --> 0:14:54.541 The Samantha Murphy case was big news. However, at the 0:14:54.581 --> 0:14:57.441 same time the search was on for Sam, there was 0:14:57.501 --> 0:15:00.521 another case happening in Sydney. It was the case of 0:15:00.541 --> 0:15:04.101 the two men who were allegedly killed by a police officer. 0:15:04.401 --> 0:15:08.321 The 28-year-old man facing these charges was in a relationship 0:15:08.361 --> 0:15:11.381 with Jessie some time ago, which finished a couple of 0:15:11.401 --> 0:15:11.901 months ago. 0:15:11.921 --> 0:15:15.821 That case made headlines across Australia and the world, and 0:15:15.841 --> 0:15:18.041 it didn't take all that long for someone to be 0:15:18.081 --> 0:15:22.021 arrested for the two men's murder. Investigators allege Mr Lamar 0:15:22.061 --> 0:15:25.501 Condon killed the couple in Mr Baird's home sometime on Monday. 0:15:25.521 --> 0:15:30.651 The person arrested was at first... not cooperative with police. However, 0:15:30.811 --> 0:15:34.031 we knew more about that case than we do about Sam's. 0:15:35.091 --> 0:15:37.911 Police told us that he used his police revolver. He'd 0:15:37.931 --> 0:15:41.391 bought surfboard bags to hide the bodies. He hired a 0:15:41.431 --> 0:15:44.421 van from the airport and drove the bodies out of town. 0:15:45.001 --> 0:15:48.461 At first, the alleged killer didn't cooperate, but then it's 0:15:48.521 --> 0:15:51.901 believed due to the no body, no parole law, he 0:15:51.931 --> 0:15:56.241 decided to tell police where the men's bodies were. Good evening. 0:15:56.341 --> 0:15:59.121 Police have made a grim breakthrough in the search for 0:15:59.181 --> 0:16:03.401 Jesse Baird and Luke Davies, finding two bodies hidden in 0:16:03.441 --> 0:16:06.961 a state forest. Detectives say the discovery was based on 0:16:07.041 --> 0:16:11.701 information provided by the police officer accused of killing the pair. 0:16:12.061 --> 0:16:14.271 I wanted to know from Damien, are the rules around 0:16:14.351 --> 0:16:18.171 no body, no parole the same in Victoria as they 0:16:18.271 --> 0:16:19.271 are in New South Wales? 0:16:20.291 --> 0:16:24.431 Okay, so in Victoria, it's not as some of the 0:16:24.471 --> 0:16:28.011 other states have a dead set, no release if you 0:16:28.031 --> 0:16:32.671 don't disclose where the body is. In Victoria, it's up 0:16:32.751 --> 0:16:36.621 to the parole board to decide and they can take 0:16:36.661 --> 0:16:40.681 that into account. If you haven't disclosed where the body is, 0:16:42.201 --> 0:16:46.681 the parole board can refuse you parole, but it's still 0:16:46.721 --> 0:16:51.011 up to the parole board. So they're not strong. laws 0:16:51.071 --> 0:16:54.571 in Victoria. I know it comes up all the time 0:16:54.671 --> 0:16:59.351 whenever a body isn't found for Victoria to push through 0:16:59.371 --> 0:17:04.461 the tougher sentencing, tougher laws in regards to disclosure of 0:17:04.471 --> 0:17:09.541 a body. I personally don't agree with it. I think 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:14.261 it's good if you know 100% somebody has killed a 0:17:14.281 --> 0:17:18.051 person and, you know, got rid of the body and 0:17:18.150 --> 0:17:21.580 nobody knows where it is. But You know, there's too 0:17:21.620 --> 0:17:25.571 many cases where, you know, people aren't being released in 0:17:25.610 --> 0:17:30.311 other states and from day one they've, you know, said, 0:17:30.330 --> 0:17:33.990 I am innocent of this. And many of them I 0:17:34.071 --> 0:17:37.071 can't see why they wouldn't disclose where the body is. 0:17:38.731 --> 0:17:43.211 You know, Bradley Murdoch's a good example. Now, he's going 0:17:43.231 --> 0:17:45.891 to sit in jail for the rest of his life unless, 0:17:46.051 --> 0:17:50.630 he says, where Falcone's body is. So why wouldn't he 0:17:50.691 --> 0:17:53.350 turn around and say it? He's already been branded and 0:17:53.431 --> 0:17:57.811 convicted as a murderer. Yeah, I mean, if you were 0:17:57.860 --> 0:18:01.781 in that position, you'd say where it is. So is 0:18:01.821 --> 0:18:04.981 he totally guilty? I have my doubts about Murdoch. 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:09.281 And this is a psychology question, and maybe we're not 0:18:09.321 --> 0:18:12.311 best placed to answer it, but in your experience, you 0:18:12.350 --> 0:18:15.190 might be able to have a crack at it. What 0:18:15.231 --> 0:18:19.330 would be the reason that someone wouldn't say something where 0:18:19.350 --> 0:18:23.710 the body was if they did commit this crime? 0:18:25.451 --> 0:18:29.751 Well, I suppose it would come down to whether they're 0:18:29.791 --> 0:18:33.631 prepared to admit it themselves, you know, and there could 0:18:33.671 --> 0:18:38.631 be certain reasons for that. You know, they possibly don't 0:18:38.671 --> 0:18:41.671 want certain people close to them to know that they 0:18:41.711 --> 0:18:46.991 actually did commit a crime like that. But, look, generally... 0:18:47.090 --> 0:18:50.330 You would think if you weren't a total psychopath, a 0:18:50.491 --> 0:18:54.251 serial killer, you think most people would sort of look 0:18:54.311 --> 0:18:57.430 at it and say, okay, I'm never getting out if 0:18:57.491 --> 0:19:00.250 I don't tell them where it is. So, you know, 0:19:00.370 --> 0:19:02.651 I've got everything to gain, nothing to lose. 0:19:03.311 --> 0:19:05.110 Tell me about the process now. So what we do 0:19:05.171 --> 0:19:09.771 know is he has been charged. He's currently, I guess... 0:19:11.441 --> 0:19:15.170 So he won't be bailed. He will be in a 0:19:15.211 --> 0:19:18.651 holding cell or in a jail until he's taken to court. 0:19:18.671 --> 0:19:20.830 What's the process for police now? What are they doing? 0:19:21.890 --> 0:19:24.130 Yeah, so police, the first thing they've got to do 0:19:24.431 --> 0:19:29.131 is prepare a hand-up brief. And that hand-up brief will 0:19:29.150 --> 0:19:34.001 go to the OPP in Victoria, Office of Public Prosecutions, 0:19:34.501 --> 0:19:39.390 and they'll decide whether there's enough evidence available. or whether 0:19:39.431 --> 0:19:43.580 they require police to do some more work. Usually you've 0:19:43.620 --> 0:19:48.080 got to finish that brief, I think, within six weeks 0:19:48.281 --> 0:19:52.230 of charging somebody, but you can apply for extensions if 0:19:52.291 --> 0:19:56.621 it's a complicated case. So that brief... will contain any 0:19:56.701 --> 0:20:00.461 evidence that they've got. It'll contain all the data. They'll 0:20:00.481 --> 0:20:03.830 have to, um, you know, get a statement, um, or 0:20:04.051 --> 0:20:07.630 get evidence from a, uh, an expert in the data 0:20:07.691 --> 0:20:12.171 and phone technology, um, You'll also have to get any 0:20:12.231 --> 0:20:15.251 witnesses that have come forward. They would have made statements. 0:20:17.071 --> 0:20:19.531 Everything that you can think of to do with that 0:20:19.590 --> 0:20:25.521 is relevant to this investigation to, you know, have a 0:20:25.580 --> 0:20:30.760 successful prosecution will go into that brief and, yeah, and 0:20:31.140 --> 0:20:34.400 it will go to a committal hearing, which is usually 0:20:34.421 --> 0:20:38.500 in the magistrate's court, and that committal is simply for 0:20:38.521 --> 0:20:41.521 the court to say, yes, there's enough evidence to warrant 0:20:41.660 --> 0:20:44.661 a trial in a higher court. And in this case, 0:20:44.741 --> 0:20:46.701 it will be the Supreme Court in Victoria. 0:20:46.860 --> 0:20:50.420 And so Supreme Court isn't– we're not talking this is 0:20:50.441 --> 0:20:52.741 going to be something that's ended in the next month 0:20:52.821 --> 0:20:55.851 or so, right? We're talking six to 12 months that 0:20:55.890 --> 0:20:56.491 this will take. 0:20:56.991 --> 0:21:00.351 You would think so. I mean, there's a– I mean, 0:21:00.370 --> 0:21:03.710 I was trying to think it's– even though it's a 0:21:03.870 --> 0:21:10.330 complicated case– There's not all that much. Other than the data, 0:21:10.350 --> 0:21:17.370 you know, there's no reason why the committal hearing can't 0:21:17.390 --> 0:21:20.561 go forward within, you know, a few months. And then, 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:24.341 you know, it depends on the schedule of the court systems. 0:21:24.941 --> 0:21:28.161 Victoria is just like all the other states. You know, 0:21:28.181 --> 0:21:31.061 the backlog and drag is just out of control. 0:21:31.941 --> 0:21:34.640 Given the public scrutiny on this particular case, you would 0:21:34.660 --> 0:21:38.201 imagine this is a case that would move through faster 0:21:38.221 --> 0:21:39.991 than your general case? 0:21:40.751 --> 0:21:44.031 They'll want to make sure that they've got everything right, 0:21:44.511 --> 0:21:49.151 crossed every T, dotted every I, and it'll be scrutinised 0:21:49.191 --> 0:21:53.511 from day one, the actual evidence. So everything is going 0:21:53.531 --> 0:21:54.251 to be spot on. 0:21:54.350 --> 0:21:57.551 How important is finding Samantha's body now? 0:21:58.541 --> 0:22:02.541 Look, it's always important in a case like this because 0:22:02.561 --> 0:22:07.321 you're charging somebody with murder. So to actually find the 0:22:07.380 --> 0:22:11.721 body and for the coroner and forensics to go over 0:22:11.781 --> 0:22:16.051 that body and determine how she died is all forms 0:22:16.110 --> 0:22:21.370 another part of the evidence against any person charged. So, 0:22:22.130 --> 0:22:25.731 you know, it is important and it'll show exactly, well, 0:22:25.870 --> 0:22:28.241 you can sort of indicate exactly what happened to her. 0:22:28.991 --> 0:22:34.661 So it's important in that there's no doubt she is deceased, 0:22:36.701 --> 0:22:38.921 but it's better to prove that by having the body. 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:42.160 What were the tools the police would be using to 0:22:42.201 --> 0:22:45.221 try and convince Patrick to. 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:52.601 Oh, look, I think they'd try anything, really. At this stage, 0:22:52.681 --> 0:22:59.950 he probably... is, well, possibly expressing that he's not guilty 0:23:00.691 --> 0:23:03.410 and that's why he can't say where the body is 0:23:03.571 --> 0:23:06.371 because he's not saying to the police, okay, you got me. 0:23:08.071 --> 0:23:13.021 He's denying it. So it's going to take time between 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:18.120 his solicitors, lawyers, even the use of his family to 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:21.841 get the truth out there. Police will use anything they 0:23:21.900 --> 0:23:23.161 can to find that body. 0:23:23.781 --> 0:23:26.580 What are we expecting to see as the next movements 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:28.781 from police or from him? What's most likely? 0:23:29.001 --> 0:23:32.780 Well, he's not going to get bail. So he'll have 0:23:32.821 --> 0:23:37.281 his bail hearings every four weeks or so. He'll pretty 0:23:37.321 --> 0:23:41.521 much stay in jail. And what they'll be trying to 0:23:41.580 --> 0:23:46.110 do is the police will only release information now if 0:23:46.330 --> 0:23:49.411 they want other people to come forward. So as they 0:23:49.471 --> 0:23:51.830 find out certain things where he might have been at 0:23:51.910 --> 0:23:55.600 different times, Then they'll put something out. If anybody saw 0:23:55.660 --> 0:23:59.120 this vehicle, this person on such and such a date, 0:23:59.580 --> 0:24:03.600 give us a call. So they'll be tightening all the 0:24:03.660 --> 0:24:05.891 evidence up by doing things like that. 0:24:06.130 --> 0:24:08.571 It seems that they've been to the nightclub that he 0:24:08.590 --> 0:24:10.751 was at the night before. The club was called The Deck. 0:24:10.890 --> 0:24:15.471 They've grabbed the CCTV of him there. They're also investigating 0:24:15.531 --> 0:24:20.241 a light industrial area that's just around the corner. and 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:25.321 obviously they had said early on in the piece that 0:24:25.360 --> 0:24:29.180 there was no connection between him and Samantha Murphy, and 0:24:29.701 --> 0:24:32.661 now some news has come out that Samantha was actually 0:24:32.701 --> 0:24:38.071 working in the uniform shop as a helper when he 0:24:38.110 --> 0:24:42.970 was at primary school. So is that just coincidence in 0:24:42.991 --> 0:24:45.951 a small town? I'd say so. 0:24:45.971 --> 0:24:46.171 Like.... 0:24:47.731 --> 0:24:49.571 You know, it's a bit of a stretch to say 0:24:49.951 --> 0:24:54.280 they were involved in some way with each other. You know, 0:24:54.301 --> 0:24:59.321 there'd be a thousand kids probably gone through that uniform shop. 0:24:59.380 --> 0:25:02.081 And how often do you get uniforms? You know, once 0:25:02.160 --> 0:25:04.160 every year? 0:25:04.360 --> 0:25:07.430 I guess that's armchair detectives trying to find a connection 0:25:07.471 --> 0:25:12.291 between Stevenson and Samantha. How annoying is that as a 0:25:12.311 --> 0:25:14.150 cop when that sort of stuff happens? 0:25:14.590 --> 0:25:17.291