1 00:00:03,060 --> 00:00:06,450 Adam Lang: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Adam Lang. 2 00:00:06,900 --> 00:00:10,289 Adam Lang: For so many businesses right now, the focus is simply 3 00:00:10,289 --> 00:00:13,230 Adam Lang: on staying afloat. But there will come a time again 4 00:00:13,230 --> 00:00:16,770 Adam Lang: when attention returns to growth. And some businesses will be 5 00:00:16,770 --> 00:00:20,490 Adam Lang: doing that right now, looking for opportunities to grow their business, 6 00:00:20,730 --> 00:00:25,860 Adam Lang: perhaps in areas they hadn't previously considered, even overseas. Today, 7 00:00:25,860 --> 00:00:27,780 Adam Lang: I wanted to get a guide on how to do it, 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,040 Adam Lang: how to take an existing small to medium-sized enterprise and 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,910 Adam Lang: turn it into something bigger. Sabri Suby is the Founder 10 00:00:35,909 --> 00:00:39,210 Adam Lang: and Head of Growth of King Kong, an Australian digital 11 00:00:39,210 --> 00:00:43,470 Adam Lang: marketing agency that now operates worldwide. Sabri, welcome to Fear 12 00:00:43,470 --> 00:00:43,940 Adam Lang: and Greed. 13 00:00:44,250 --> 00:00:45,750 Sabri Suby: No problems. Thanks for having me on. 14 00:00:46,290 --> 00:00:49,710 Adam Lang: It's a pleasure. At the moment, how do you suggest 15 00:00:49,710 --> 00:00:53,970 Adam Lang: businesses strike the balance between trying to grow and just 16 00:00:53,970 --> 00:00:55,080 Adam Lang: keeping the doors open? 17 00:00:55,500 --> 00:00:59,550 Sabri Suby: I think that realistically the focus still needs to be 18 00:00:59,550 --> 00:01:02,340 Sabri Suby: on the same area of your business, and that is 19 00:01:02,340 --> 00:01:06,090 Sabri Suby: to really bring in sales and to bring in opportunities 20 00:01:06,330 --> 00:01:09,750 Sabri Suby: for you to make sales within your business. And it's 21 00:01:09,750 --> 00:01:13,890 Sabri Suby: just being realistic also about, you know, if you had 22 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:18,360 Sabri Suby: further goals that you wanted to hit before COVID or lockdowns, 23 00:01:18,390 --> 00:01:21,870 Sabri Suby: all the craziness that's taking place in the world right now, 24 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,330 Sabri Suby: you need to look at, you know, not only what 25 00:01:24,340 --> 00:01:26,880 Sabri Suby: you planning, what were you planning in order to hit 26 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,270 Sabri Suby: in terms of those revenue milestones or those growth milestones, 27 00:01:30,450 --> 00:01:33,090 Sabri Suby: but also the level of effort required in order to 28 00:01:33,090 --> 00:01:36,780 Sabri Suby: make them a reality. And if anything, I don't say 29 00:01:36,780 --> 00:01:40,230 Sabri Suby: that business owners need to be realistic about resetting their 30 00:01:40,230 --> 00:01:44,819 Sabri Suby: goals and lowering their targets, but more so get more realistic 31 00:01:44,819 --> 00:01:47,310 Sabri Suby: about the level of effort that's going to be required 32 00:01:47,310 --> 00:01:51,420 Sabri Suby: in order for you to not lower those targets. So 33 00:01:51,450 --> 00:01:54,570 Sabri Suby: like like being crystal clear about that is that, yes, 34 00:01:54,570 --> 00:01:56,940 Sabri Suby: there is a lot of uncertainty going on in the 35 00:01:56,940 --> 00:01:59,880 Sabri Suby: world right now, you know, in some pockets of some 36 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,840 Sabri Suby: industries that's creating huge amounts of upsides and opportunity. In others, 37 00:02:04,380 --> 00:02:07,320 Sabri Suby: what they can see is only downside. But if you 38 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:12,510 Sabri Suby: be creative enough and you really think about the fundamentals 39 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:17,190 Sabri Suby: of any business that are still present, it's people in 40 00:02:17,190 --> 00:02:19,500 Sabri Suby: a market have a problem that you need to solve. 41 00:02:19,500 --> 00:02:21,780 Sabri Suby: And the very first step in you being able to 42 00:02:21,780 --> 00:02:24,750 Sabri Suby: do that is to focus on getting attention. And there's 43 00:02:24,750 --> 00:02:26,940 Sabri Suby: nothing that's more important and it's nothing that is more 44 00:02:26,940 --> 00:02:30,840 Sabri Suby: difficult to do right now in such a noisy climate 45 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,140 Sabri Suby: than get attention. But that's where all the growth, all 46 00:02:34,139 --> 00:02:37,650 Sabri Suby: the sales and everything stems from. That's the absolute. You 47 00:02:37,650 --> 00:02:40,829 Sabri Suby: boil it down to its first principles. That's the first 48 00:02:40,830 --> 00:02:42,839 Sabri Suby: thing that's going to kind of move the money needle, 49 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,500 Sabri Suby: as I say. And there, whether you're looking at growth 50 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:49,050 Sabri Suby: and you're looking at dealing with all this uncertainty, the 51 00:02:49,050 --> 00:02:53,160 Sabri Suby: major focus of any business right now needs to be 52 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:54,780 Sabri Suby: on ringing the cash register. 53 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,250 Adam Lang: So amongst that sales pipeline and as you describe it, 54 00:02:59,370 --> 00:03:03,480 Adam Lang: that immense level of noise, how does a business know 55 00:03:03,510 --> 00:03:05,070 Adam Lang: if they're ready to scale up? 56 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,170 Sabri Suby: So the very first thing is you want to make 57 00:03:10,169 --> 00:03:15,600 Sabri Suby: sure that you have a product market fit and i.e. (that is) you've 58 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,079 Sabri Suby: created a test case for your business and you're able 59 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,040 Sabri Suby: to generate a predictable result of whatever the promise is 60 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,399 Sabri Suby: that your business makes, you know, whether it's losing weight 61 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,590 Sabri Suby: or growing a business or all the other things that 62 00:03:28,590 --> 00:03:30,780 Sabri Suby: come into it, you want to make sure that you 63 00:03:30,780 --> 00:03:35,040 Sabri Suby: first of all, you've got that kind of hypothesis tested 64 00:03:35,190 --> 00:03:38,040 Sabri Suby: and you know that this is the use case. I can 65 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,340 Sabri Suby: predictably deliver this result. You know, I have the back 66 00:03:41,340 --> 00:03:45,720 Sabri Suby: end infrastructure ready to scale, and they're the kind of 67 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,420 Sabri Suby: precursors that you need to look at. There are other 68 00:03:48,420 --> 00:03:50,430 Sabri Suby: things within that that you can look at. If you've 69 00:03:50,430 --> 00:03:53,640 Sabri Suby: got a reoccurring client base, you can look at like, 70 00:03:54,090 --> 00:03:58,740 Sabri Suby: you know, achieving negative net churn, i.e. how many people is 71 00:03:58,740 --> 00:04:02,220 Sabri Suby: the average person referring to my business? If you're not 72 00:04:02,220 --> 00:04:05,850 Sabri Suby: getting any referrals, that means that you're not really delivering 73 00:04:05,850 --> 00:04:09,240 Sabri Suby: a great service. So then you need to go back 74 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:10,830 Sabri Suby: and have a look at what is it that I 75 00:04:10,830 --> 00:04:14,730 Sabri Suby: need to change operationally within my business or, you know, 76 00:04:14,810 --> 00:04:18,299 Sabri Suby: the offer that I'm actually making to my marketplace to 77 00:04:18,300 --> 00:04:20,040 Sabri Suby: get it to the point where I can bring a 78 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,219 Sabri Suby: customer in, I can get them great results, and then 79 00:04:23,220 --> 00:04:27,060 Sabri Suby: that one person at least tells another or hopefully two 80 00:04:27,060 --> 00:04:30,270 Sabri Suby: other people about it. And then once you've got what 81 00:04:30,270 --> 00:04:32,550 Sabri Suby: I call a winning DNA, that's the kind of winning 82 00:04:32,550 --> 00:04:36,299 Sabri Suby: DNA that you're looking for, then it's about scaling the 83 00:04:36,300 --> 00:04:40,200 Sabri Suby: front end to bring in more customers. And then you 84 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,310 Sabri Suby: get this thing that Jim Collins calls a flywheel where 85 00:04:44,310 --> 00:04:47,159 Sabri Suby: you're getting basically a positive network effect and you're getting 86 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,190 Sabri Suby: other people tell other people about your business. And that 87 00:04:50,190 --> 00:04:53,320 Sabri Suby: in itself is really a growth engine for the business. 88 00:04:53,850 --> 00:04:57,989 Adam Lang: So it sounds like you really work closely with your 89 00:04:57,990 --> 00:05:02,940 Adam Lang: clients on helping their customers become advocates for business. Is 90 00:05:02,940 --> 00:05:06,390 Adam Lang: there a secret to growth, a magical digital ingredient? Does 91 00:05:06,390 --> 00:05:08,890 Adam Lang: it come down to the way your business is marketed 92 00:05:08,890 --> 00:05:11,490 Adam Lang: and how you use Google, Facebook and the rest? 93 00:05:11,830 --> 00:05:15,210 Sabri Suby: Yeah, look, we don't work super closely with our clients 94 00:05:15,210 --> 00:05:19,620 Sabri Suby: around making sure that the engineering word of mouth within 95 00:05:19,620 --> 00:05:21,929 Sabri Suby: the business, to be honest, we're more so on the 96 00:05:21,930 --> 00:05:25,470 Sabri Suby: customer acquisition side. So we're all about how to create 97 00:05:25,470 --> 00:05:29,310 Sabri Suby: those opportunities in the first place. And I guess to 98 00:05:29,310 --> 00:05:32,220 Sabri Suby: answer your question, the things that, you know, when you 99 00:05:32,220 --> 00:05:35,220 Sabri Suby: ask a business owner like, OK, what are you trying 100 00:05:35,220 --> 00:05:37,320 Sabri Suby: to do right now? You know, they're typically going to say, look, 101 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,180 Sabri Suby: I'm trying to grow. I want to double my leads. 102 00:05:39,180 --> 00:05:40,710 Sabri Suby: I want to get a new sales guy. I want 103 00:05:40,710 --> 00:05:42,420 Sabri Suby: to get more sales in the door. I want to 104 00:05:42,420 --> 00:05:46,470 Sabri Suby: expand into new territories and markets. And then you begin 105 00:05:46,470 --> 00:05:50,610 Sabri Suby: to kind of unpack and unravel the layers of the onion, 106 00:05:50,610 --> 00:05:54,989 Sabri Suby: so to speak, and try and get some hard data 107 00:05:55,020 --> 00:05:58,620 Sabri Suby: or plans or tactics that they plan on employing to 108 00:05:58,620 --> 00:06:02,240 Sabri Suby: make that a reality. And that's where most things fall over. 109 00:06:02,250 --> 00:06:05,310 Sabri Suby: Most business owners know that they want to grow their business, 110 00:06:05,460 --> 00:06:08,820 Sabri Suby: but it's like this esoteric concept. They don't really have 111 00:06:08,820 --> 00:06:11,550 Sabri Suby: the building blocks in order to do that. So what 112 00:06:11,550 --> 00:06:14,250 Sabri Suby: we do within our business is that we've got something 113 00:06:14,250 --> 00:06:18,000 Sabri Suby: that we call scientific customer acquisition, where we're looking at 114 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,910 Sabri Suby: all the different constituent parts for a business and we're 115 00:06:20,910 --> 00:06:24,840 Sabri Suby: looking at all the unit economics that are present within 116 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,530 Sabri Suby: that business and then create a framework to make the 117 00:06:28,529 --> 00:06:34,020 Sabri Suby: growth equation a scientific one, i.e., we start with the 118 00:06:34,020 --> 00:06:36,390 Sabri Suby: end in mind. If someone says, OK, look, I'm at 119 00:06:36,390 --> 00:06:38,640 Sabri Suby: one hundred grand per month right now and I want to 120 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,409 Sabri Suby: get to a million per month. Or they might be 121 00:06:40,470 --> 00:06:42,030 Sabri Suby: at one hundred grand per year and they want to get 122 00:06:42,029 --> 00:06:46,440 Sabri Suby: a million dollars per year. We start to first back 123 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,140 Sabri Suby: into that goal. We back into the million dollars by 124 00:06:49,140 --> 00:06:51,570 Sabri Suby: having a look at how much is the average client 125 00:06:51,570 --> 00:06:54,660 Sabri Suby: worth to you and then having a look at what 126 00:06:54,660 --> 00:06:58,589 Sabri Suby: is it costing us to acquire a customer? How many 127 00:06:59,790 --> 00:07:01,589 Sabri Suby: leads do we need to get in order to get 128 00:07:01,589 --> 00:07:03,779 Sabri Suby: a customer? What's the cost per lead? What's the cost 129 00:07:03,779 --> 00:07:06,300 Sabri Suby: per click? And then we come up with a formula 130 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,720 Sabri Suby: where we really know scientifically what are the inputs into 131 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,630 Sabri Suby: that system in order to reach the outcome that they're 132 00:07:12,630 --> 00:07:17,310 Sabri Suby: striving for. And we break business down into unit economics 133 00:07:17,310 --> 00:07:20,580 Sabri Suby: and give people a framework and a roadmap of what 134 00:07:20,580 --> 00:07:23,310 Sabri Suby: it's going to take to actually go out there based 135 00:07:23,310 --> 00:07:26,250 Sabri Suby: on their current numbers and their unit economics to actually 136 00:07:26,250 --> 00:07:27,460 Sabri Suby: make that a reality. 137 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,950 Adam Lang: OK, so I imagine in that customer acquisition and into 138 00:07:32,100 --> 00:07:35,760 Adam Lang: the economics, the unit economics that you talk about there, I 139 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,640 Adam Lang: imagine that effective marketing is only part of it. You 140 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:40,800 Adam Lang: need to be able to back it up with service 141 00:07:41,020 --> 00:07:44,460 Adam Lang: and with supply. When you're doing that process, are you 142 00:07:44,460 --> 00:07:47,400 Adam Lang: able to see what's making the business successful? 143 00:07:47,700 --> 00:07:50,650 Sabri Suby: Yeah, like we have certain KPIs (Key Performance Indicators). If we're looking at 144 00:07:50,670 --> 00:07:54,450 Sabri Suby: from the acquisition front, we have certain KPIs on the 145 00:07:54,450 --> 00:07:57,690 Sabri Suby: acquisition front that we will shoot for, whether it's like 146 00:07:57,690 --> 00:07:59,820 Sabri Suby: a percentage of a click through rate on an ad 147 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,690 Sabri Suby: to the conversion rate on an opt-in page into a lead, 148 00:08:03,690 --> 00:08:06,730 Sabri Suby: and then a lead into like a sales ready opportunity 149 00:08:06,910 --> 00:08:10,090 Sabri Suby: and then look at how many of those leads are 150 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,600 Sabri Suby: actually being closed by the client and at what close rate. 151 00:08:13,900 --> 00:08:17,390 Sabri Suby: So then we can kind of problem shoot and go, OK, 152 00:08:17,740 --> 00:08:20,350 Sabri Suby: like this is the area that's falling over. And a 153 00:08:20,350 --> 00:08:23,530 Sabri Suby: lot of the time it's that the clients don't have 154 00:08:23,770 --> 00:08:27,700 Sabri Suby: a predictable and dependable script and a formula of what 155 00:08:27,700 --> 00:08:30,010 Sabri Suby: to say to those inbound leads that come into their 156 00:08:30,010 --> 00:08:32,920 Sabri Suby: business and being able to close them at a rate 157 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,190 Sabri Suby: that's profitable enough to sustain not only our retainers but 158 00:08:36,190 --> 00:08:39,400 Sabri Suby: the cost to advertise on Google and Facebook. And that's 159 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,450 Sabri Suby: because a lot of businesses, they're used to dealing with 160 00:08:43,450 --> 00:08:47,110 Sabri Suby: referrals and word of mouth, and they might operate off 161 00:08:47,110 --> 00:08:50,229 Sabri Suby: an 80 per cent closed rate on those leads. And that's 162 00:08:50,230 --> 00:08:53,829 Sabri Suby: kind of like their business is built off that system 163 00:08:54,070 --> 00:08:57,369 Sabri Suby: and they don't really have the system to turn a 164 00:08:57,370 --> 00:09:01,630 Sabri Suby: complete stranger into a high paying client because it's a 165 00:09:02,140 --> 00:09:05,860 Sabri Suby: whole different skill level that's required. And as you scale 166 00:09:05,860 --> 00:09:08,290 Sabri Suby: a business up from one hundred thousand to a million 167 00:09:08,290 --> 00:09:10,569 Sabri Suby: a month to a million to a million dollars a 168 00:09:10,570 --> 00:09:14,800 Sabri Suby: year to a million dollars a month, it requires more 169 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,489 Sabri Suby: skill because you're typically going out to colder audiences that 170 00:09:18,490 --> 00:09:21,820 Sabri Suby: don't have as much intent. To give that some context, 171 00:09:22,030 --> 00:09:25,480 Sabri Suby: you might start with one advertising channel. And that advertising 172 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,660 Sabri Suby: channel might be Google, which has a huge amount of 173 00:09:28,660 --> 00:09:31,479 Sabri Suby: intent behind it. Like people on Google, they're in hunt 174 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,780 Sabri Suby: mode looking for a solution to a problem that they're 175 00:09:34,780 --> 00:09:39,070 Sabri Suby: experiencing right now. They're the hottest, easiest leads ever to convert. Right. 176 00:09:39,940 --> 00:09:43,240 Sabri Suby: And then you might exhaust that. And then because there's 177 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,390 Sabri Suby: only so many people that are doing searches per month 178 00:09:46,870 --> 00:09:49,929 Sabri Suby: for your products or your services. And then that might 179 00:09:49,929 --> 00:09:52,030 Sabri Suby: allow you to get to a million dollars a year 180 00:09:52,059 --> 00:09:53,979 Sabri Suby: in revenue and you might have goals to build a 181 00:09:53,980 --> 00:09:57,520 Sabri Suby: 10 million dollar per year business. Then you need to 182 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,969 Sabri Suby: start looking at other traffic channels that's going to be 183 00:10:00,970 --> 00:10:04,060 Sabri Suby: able to allow you to unlock that growth. So then 184 00:10:04,059 --> 00:10:07,630 Sabri Suby: you might go to something like Facebook and on Facebook, 185 00:10:07,630 --> 00:10:11,410 Sabri Suby: these are people that aren't on Google looking for a solution. 186 00:10:12,130 --> 00:10:16,060 Sabri Suby: They're a complete stranger and they aren't out there looking 187 00:10:16,059 --> 00:10:19,959 Sabri Suby: for actively. They're a passive audience. So being having the 188 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,829 Sabri Suby: skill to get that person that to identify themselves in 189 00:10:23,830 --> 00:10:26,020 Sabri Suby: a sea of people and raise their hand and say, hey, 190 00:10:26,020 --> 00:10:29,079 Sabri Suby: I'm interested in what it is that you've got, and 191 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,660 Sabri Suby: then being able to actually convert that person to the 192 00:10:31,660 --> 00:10:35,800 Sabri Suby: point where they're your client is a completely different game to 193 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,550 Sabri Suby: then just converting a Google hot prospect that's coming in. 194 00:10:39,850 --> 00:10:42,609 Sabri Suby: And that's the thing that I see is really a 195 00:10:42,610 --> 00:10:45,970 Sabri Suby: bottleneck to a lot of businesses, is just having a 196 00:10:45,970 --> 00:10:49,630 Sabri Suby: different mindset of what success looks like and what the 197 00:10:49,630 --> 00:10:52,300 Sabri Suby: close rates need to be in order for them to 198 00:10:52,300 --> 00:10:55,090 Sabri Suby: scale the business. Because if you go in with the 199 00:10:55,090 --> 00:10:57,730 Sabri Suby: mindset of, hey, I'm used to closing 80 per cent of 200 00:10:57,730 --> 00:11:01,510 Sabri Suby: my leads and then you start advertising to strangers and, 201 00:11:01,510 --> 00:11:03,699 Sabri Suby: you know, that goes down to 40 per cent and then 202 00:11:03,700 --> 00:11:06,790 Sabri Suby: 30 per cent and 20 per cent. Then it's very easy for 203 00:11:06,790 --> 00:11:11,050 Sabri Suby: that business owner to look at this, the precursor metrics 204 00:11:11,050 --> 00:11:13,959 Sabri Suby: and go, this is not making sense. Like I'm not 205 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,840 Sabri Suby: closing nowhere near as many people as I usually do 206 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,510 Sabri Suby: when it's like it's a different avenue and it's a 207 00:11:19,510 --> 00:11:22,330 Sabri Suby: different chapter of your businesses growth cycle. 208 00:11:22,780 --> 00:11:25,179 Adam Lang: Stay with me, Sabri. We'll be back in a minute. 209 00:11:30,090 --> 00:11:33,600 Adam Lang: My guest this morning is Sabri Suby, founder of digital 210 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:38,040 Adam Lang: marketing agency King Kong. It sounds like you learn a 211 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,740 Adam Lang: great deal about different businesses. Do you get a charge 212 00:11:40,740 --> 00:11:41,160 Adam Lang: out of it? 213 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,380 Sabri Suby: I do, yeah. So this is what lights me up, right? 214 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:44,579 Adam Lang: Okay! 215 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,510 Sabri Suby: I really love, I really love business. I think that business is just 216 00:11:48,510 --> 00:11:53,100 Sabri Suby: such an incredible vehicle to drive change in the world. 217 00:11:53,100 --> 00:11:56,460 Sabri Suby: And it's all a, that's the way that I look 218 00:11:56,460 --> 00:11:58,140 Sabri Suby: at it. It's not I'm not helping people just grow 219 00:11:58,140 --> 00:12:00,930 Sabri Suby: the traffic leads and sales like I'm helping people transform 220 00:12:00,929 --> 00:12:04,020 Sabri Suby: their lives. You know, you help somebody grow their business. 221 00:12:04,260 --> 00:12:06,540 Sabri Suby: One of our clients was stressed out of his mind 222 00:12:06,540 --> 00:12:09,480 Sabri Suby: working out of the back of a friend's yoga studio, barely 223 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:14,760 Sabri Suby: breaking even and struggling to make payroll. And we've taken 224 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,840 Sabri Suby: that business from being in that position to being an 225 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:24,330 Sabri Suby: international business, employing lots of staff, making very healthy profits. 226 00:12:24,570 --> 00:12:29,069 Sabri Suby: Not only has that changed that client's life and his 227 00:12:29,070 --> 00:12:32,880 Sabri Suby: family's life and the people within his extended family, it 228 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:37,980 Sabri Suby: also is showing other people within society what's possible and 229 00:12:37,980 --> 00:12:40,020 Sabri Suby: that they can look up to those people as like 230 00:12:40,020 --> 00:12:41,910 Sabri Suby: a beacon of like, hey, I can actually go out 231 00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:44,910 Sabri Suby: and do this. And then you do think about all 232 00:12:44,910 --> 00:12:49,350 Sabri Suby: of the customers that his business is positively affecting through 233 00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:53,189 Sabri Suby: the transformation that he provides to his clients. It's a 234 00:12:53,190 --> 00:12:57,930 Sabri Suby: really positive network effect out there as opposed to just 235 00:12:57,929 --> 00:13:01,950 Sabri Suby: like charity and helping a charitable cause. Like it needs to 236 00:13:01,950 --> 00:13:05,520 Sabri Suby: be self-sustaining. It needs to be built on a capitalist 237 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,780 Sabri Suby: kind of structure where it's self supporting. It helps people, 238 00:13:09,780 --> 00:13:13,410 Sabri Suby: it delivers results, it creates jobs and lots of opportunities 239 00:13:13,410 --> 00:13:17,040 Sabri Suby: for people. So I look at it a lot deeper than 240 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:18,780 Sabri Suby: what a lot of people probably think. 241 00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:21,540 Adam Lang: No, I can imagine that. Your passion is really clear. 242 00:13:21,870 --> 00:13:25,319 Adam Lang: And looking at it from the other side, you've perhaps 243 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,140 Adam Lang: seen some things where people are doing things that are 244 00:13:28,140 --> 00:13:32,500 Adam Lang: holding them back, preventing those small to medium-sized enterprises from growing. 245 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:34,980 Adam Lang: Can you give us an indication of some of those? 246 00:13:35,580 --> 00:13:39,479 Sabri Suby: The number one sin I think that most business owners 247 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,770 Sabri Suby: commit is that they look at advertising as a cost 248 00:13:43,770 --> 00:13:44,700 Sabri Suby: on their P&L (Profit and Loss Statement). 249 00:13:45,270 --> 00:13:45,689 Adam Lang: Okay. 250 00:13:45,809 --> 00:13:48,720 Sabri Suby: So they meet with their accountant. They look at it. They're like, oh, wow. 251 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,109 Sabri Suby: Like you spent one hundred grand on marketing this year. Like, 252 00:13:52,130 --> 00:13:54,180 Sabri Suby: I think we should probably look at ways that we 253 00:13:54,179 --> 00:13:57,000 Sabri Suby: can reduce that. Yet they don't look at it as the 254 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,290 Sabri Suby: single greatest investment that a business can ever make is 255 00:14:01,350 --> 00:14:05,220 Sabri Suby: to invest in advertising. Like it's not untypical for our 256 00:14:05,220 --> 00:14:09,000 Sabri Suby: clients to get three dollars out from every one dollar they've invested. 257 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:10,980 Sabri Suby: Like a lot of them, it's a lot higher than that. 258 00:14:11,340 --> 00:14:15,870 Sabri Suby: And what other investment vehicle on planet Earth that you 259 00:14:15,870 --> 00:14:19,110 Sabri Suby: have control of will give you that return in a 260 00:14:19,110 --> 00:14:21,989 Sabri Suby: 30 day period? Like it's very difficult to get that 261 00:14:21,990 --> 00:14:25,590 Sabri Suby: kind of return. Interest, high interest savings accounts that most 262 00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:28,710 Sabri Suby: business owners have their money parked in, like that money 263 00:14:28,710 --> 00:14:31,740 Sabri Suby: is rotting in that, because if you factor in like 264 00:14:31,740 --> 00:14:33,930 Sabri Suby: a one per cent interest that you're getting in like a 265 00:14:33,930 --> 00:14:37,320 Sabri Suby: term deposit account or up to two per cent. And then 266 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,820 Sabri Suby: if you factor in inflation, you're actually losing money, right? 267 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:46,410 Sabri Suby: Where with advertising, it's most people aren't looking at the 268 00:14:46,410 --> 00:14:49,170 Sabri Suby: consequence of what that's doing to their bottom line and 269 00:14:49,170 --> 00:14:52,050 Sabri Suby: also their top line. They're just looking at, OK, this 270 00:14:52,050 --> 00:14:55,470 Sabri Suby: is just a cost and it's not good for me 271 00:14:55,470 --> 00:14:58,260 Sabri Suby: to go from spending five thousand dollars per month on 272 00:14:58,260 --> 00:15:01,560 Sabri Suby: advertising to twenty thousand dollars. Like that's like a huge 273 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,910 Sabri Suby: cost structure. But you'd be hard, you know, I've asked 274 00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:08,790 Sabri Suby: lots of people to show me an investment that they're 275 00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:12,420 Sabri Suby: doing in that shows greater returns than advertising. Property on 276 00:15:12,420 --> 00:15:15,300 Sabri Suby: average gets you a twelve per cent per annum if you 277 00:15:15,300 --> 00:15:17,670 Sabri Suby: look across the board in all the different sectors. So 278 00:15:17,670 --> 00:15:20,070 Sabri Suby: that's the biggest thing that I see holding people back 279 00:15:20,070 --> 00:15:22,500 Sabri Suby: is that they're really looking at it and they they 280 00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:24,900 Sabri Suby: almost wear it as a badge of honour that they 281 00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:26,940 Sabri Suby: don't advertise. They're like, yeah, I get all of my 282 00:15:26,940 --> 00:15:30,450 Sabri Suby: customers from word of mouth. And that's okay, like, well, typically your 283 00:15:30,450 --> 00:15:34,770 Sabri Suby: business has probably plateaued and you probably aren't experiencing any 284 00:15:34,770 --> 00:15:39,479 Sabri Suby: huge growth. And you've got like a broke mindset about 285 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,630 Sabri Suby: growing your business where you're constantly looking at advertising as 286 00:15:42,630 --> 00:15:43,170 Sabri Suby: a cost. 287 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,610 Adam Lang: So in that realm, Google has pushed back the stopping 288 00:15:47,610 --> 00:15:50,790 Adam Lang: of using third party cookies until the end of 2023. 289 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,030 Adam Lang: What impact do you think that's going to have on 290 00:15:54,030 --> 00:15:55,500 Adam Lang: the way businesses advertise? 291 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,010 Sabri Suby: Yeah, look, it's already like we're we're in turbulent waters right 292 00:15:59,010 --> 00:16:03,360 Sabri Suby: now with Facebook and Facebook's whole attribution with Apple kind 293 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:08,100 Sabri Suby: of coming out with iOS 14.5 and that's really throwing 294 00:16:08,100 --> 00:16:10,680 Sabri Suby: a spanner in the works in terms of attribution and 295 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,100 Sabri Suby: tracking and all of those kind of things. But what 296 00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:18,420 Sabri Suby: we're going to see is definitely a rise in reporting 297 00:16:18,420 --> 00:16:22,410 Sabri Suby: software about using more than just cookies to track people. 298 00:16:22,860 --> 00:16:25,560 Sabri Suby: There's a whole bunch of softwares that we use in 299 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:30,020 Sabri Suby: our business that closes the loop on tracking and so, for instance, 300 00:16:30,140 --> 00:16:33,320 Sabri Suby: one of the big parts of our strategy is like 301 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,870 Sabri Suby: most people are going out there with their advertising and 302 00:16:35,870 --> 00:16:38,780 Sabri Suby: they're basically doing the equivalent of walking into a bar 303 00:16:38,900 --> 00:16:42,140 Sabri Suby: and asking a complete stranger to marry them. I.e. they're either running, 304 00:16:42,380 --> 00:16:45,440 Sabri Suby: they're running ads and all of their ads are making 305 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,170 Sabri Suby: a marriage proposal. They're like, hey, like get in contact 306 00:16:48,170 --> 00:16:52,090 Sabri Suby: with our team, buy some stuff, like let's do business together. 307 00:16:52,100 --> 00:16:55,400 Sabri Suby: We've been in business for 30 years, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 308 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,970 Sabri Suby: And it's just like, man, the market is so sceptical 309 00:16:58,970 --> 00:17:02,150 Sabri Suby: right now and scepticism is just so high that you 310 00:17:02,150 --> 00:17:05,270 Sabri Suby: can't go out with those offers anymore and expect for 311 00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:07,280 Sabri Suby: the unit economics to stack up and for it to 312 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,979 Sabri Suby: be a profitable exercise. So one of the things that 313 00:17:09,980 --> 00:17:12,680 Sabri Suby: we do, we're all about giving value in advance for 314 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,790 Sabri Suby: asking for the sale. Whether and a concept around that 315 00:17:16,970 --> 00:17:19,690 Sabri Suby: is something that I call a High Value Content Offer, 316 00:17:19,910 --> 00:17:23,330 Sabri Suby: whether it's a free report, it's a cheat sheet, it's 317 00:17:23,330 --> 00:17:26,990 Sabri Suby: a webinar. It's something that you're actually giving value in advance, 318 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,350 Sabri Suby: then asking for the sale. One of the advantages of 319 00:17:30,350 --> 00:17:33,440 Sabri Suby: doing that is it very quickly pulls the people off 320 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,620 Sabri Suby: that advertising platform and it puts them onto an asset 321 00:17:36,619 --> 00:17:40,790 Sabri Suby: that you can control, i.e. your email database. And when 322 00:17:40,790 --> 00:17:43,179 Sabri Suby: you get somebody's name and email and you know that 323 00:17:43,250 --> 00:17:47,030 Sabri Suby: they're pumped into your database, then you can basically pull 324 00:17:47,030 --> 00:17:49,669 Sabri Suby: in what data source that they came from, what's the 325 00:17:49,670 --> 00:17:52,640 Sabri Suby: traffic channel, that we'll always be able to do that, 326 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,040 Sabri Suby: well hopefully we'll always be able to do that. And 327 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,400 Sabri Suby: that's basically there's going to be a forever stamp on 328 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,620 Sabri Suby: that prospect in your CRM (Customer Relationship Management system) that this is the kind 329 00:18:00,619 --> 00:18:03,199 Sabri Suby: of channel that they came through and then you'll always 330 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,170 Sabri Suby: be able to kind of report offline conversions and what's 331 00:18:06,170 --> 00:18:08,600 Sabri Suby: happening offline. If it's a client you're converting over the 332 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,770 Sabri Suby: telephone or it's a direct eCommerce transaction, and you'll always be 333 00:18:12,770 --> 00:18:15,140 Sabri Suby: able to tie that back to that first event and 334 00:18:15,140 --> 00:18:18,170 Sabri Suby: that first ad that that person came from. So that's 335 00:18:18,170 --> 00:18:20,449 Sabri Suby: some of the ways that we're getting around, like the 336 00:18:20,450 --> 00:18:23,540 Sabri Suby: attribution and the tracking issue. But it will be a 337 00:18:23,540 --> 00:18:25,760 Sabri Suby: climate that we constantly are going to need to be 338 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,850 Sabri Suby: looking at, looking at ways to kind of not rely 339 00:18:28,850 --> 00:18:31,310 Sabri Suby: just on cookies, but a whole bunch of other digital 340 00:18:31,609 --> 00:18:35,300 Sabri Suby: touchpoints to give us more granularity around what the ROI (Return On Investment) is 341 00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:35,899 Sabri Suby: from that channel. 342 00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:39,680 Adam Lang: So I'm keen to hear your story, Sabri. King Kong 343 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:44,300 Adam Lang: started eight years ago with a fifty dollar investment. It's 344 00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:47,480 Adam Lang: now valued at more than 50 million. So how did 345 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:47,950 Adam Lang: you do it? 346 00:18:48,350 --> 00:18:51,770 Sabri Suby: Yeah, it's been a wild ride and we're only really 347 00:18:51,770 --> 00:18:54,860 Sabri Suby: just getting started I feel. I started the business in 348 00:18:54,859 --> 00:18:57,680 Sabri Suby: my bedroom. Yeah. With fifty dollars that I loaded up 349 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,739 Sabri Suby: into a VoIP account and used an old computer that 350 00:19:00,740 --> 00:19:03,260 Sabri Suby: my girlfriend had bought me, who is now my wife 351 00:19:03,260 --> 00:19:04,480 Sabri Suby: and mother of my children. 352 00:19:04,580 --> 00:19:05,629 Adam Lang: Congratulations. 353 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,919 Sabri Suby: Thank you. And basically, I just rolled up my sleeves, 354 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,040 Sabri Suby: made one hundred and fifty cold calls per day and 355 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,800 Sabri Suby: basically just got abused for a living over the telephone. 356 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,040 Sabri Suby: And I did that enough to have enough money stored 357 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,820 Sabri Suby: up in the bank account to then start deploying my 358 00:19:22,820 --> 00:19:25,310 Sabri Suby: messages that I was delivering to one hundred and fifty 359 00:19:25,310 --> 00:19:28,700 Sabri Suby: business owners a day over the telephone and putting that 360 00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:31,909 Sabri Suby: on mediums that instead of calling on one hundred and 361 00:19:31,910 --> 00:19:34,970 Sabri Suby: fifty businesses in a day, I was writing ads that 362 00:19:34,970 --> 00:19:37,760 Sabri Suby: would call on one hundred and fifty thousand businesses in 363 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,080 Sabri Suby: a day. And I've just kind of, you know, with 364 00:19:40,170 --> 00:19:45,020 Sabri Suby: a really big focus on solving the number one problem 365 00:19:45,020 --> 00:19:48,080 Sabri Suby: that all businesses face, which is how do I get 366 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,330 Sabri Suby: more customers? Like, that's just the problem that's on every 367 00:19:50,330 --> 00:19:54,500 Sabri Suby: business owners mind. That's what our business has been centred around. 368 00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:57,620 Sabri Suby: And that's what I've really been focused on mastering and 369 00:19:57,619 --> 00:20:01,490 Sabri Suby: having the hard conversation of like how much money did 370 00:20:01,490 --> 00:20:03,860 Sabri Suby: we put into this and how much money did we 371 00:20:03,859 --> 00:20:08,290 Sabri Suby: get out? And it's always a very difficult conversation to 372 00:20:08,510 --> 00:20:10,939 Sabri Suby: kind of have with business owners, because at the end 373 00:20:10,940 --> 00:20:13,190 Sabri Suby: of the day, we run a campaign and it doesn't work. 374 00:20:13,490 --> 00:20:16,790 Sabri Suby: Then we are out there stark naked in the cold 375 00:20:16,790 --> 00:20:19,610 Sabri Suby: and we have nothing to hide behind because we're not saying, well, 376 00:20:19,609 --> 00:20:21,980 Sabri Suby: look how many people saw your ad and how many 377 00:20:21,980 --> 00:20:24,710 Sabri Suby: impressions that we got, like, let's take all these impressions 378 00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:26,530 Sabri Suby: to the bank and pay your employees with them. Like, 379 00:20:26,570 --> 00:20:29,870 Sabri Suby: we can't have that conversation. It's like this is exactly 380 00:20:29,869 --> 00:20:32,119 Sabri Suby: how much money we spent. This is what the leads got. 381 00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:37,910 Sabri Suby: And I'm a big believer of that. We're compensated by 382 00:20:37,910 --> 00:20:40,430 Sabri Suby: a percentage of the value creation that we have out 383 00:20:40,430 --> 00:20:43,280 Sabri Suby: there in the marketplace. And, you know, while we've been 384 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,710 Sabri Suby: on this wild ride and we've been growing our business 385 00:20:45,710 --> 00:20:47,510 Sabri Suby: from just me in my bedroom, you know, to a 386 00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:51,710 Sabri Suby: team of 70 people plus globally, the way that that's 387 00:20:51,710 --> 00:20:54,379 Sabri Suby: been possible is that we've generated our clients over $1.33 388 00:20:55,260 --> 00:21:00,230 Sabri Suby: billion dollars in reported client revenue. And we're just sharing 389 00:21:00,230 --> 00:21:03,080 Sabri Suby: in a percentage of that upside that's allowed us to 390 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:04,219 Sabri Suby: go on that crazy journey. 391 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,369 Adam Lang: It's a great story. So where to from here? This year, 392 00:21:07,369 --> 00:21:11,360 Adam Lang: you announced an aggressive global rollout to the US, UK, 393 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,780 Adam Lang: Canada and New Zealand. What does an aggressive rollout look 394 00:21:14,780 --> 00:21:16,040 Adam Lang: like in your industry? 395 00:21:16,490 --> 00:21:23,240 Sabri Suby: Yeah, most people when they expand globally or they expand 396 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,660 Sabri Suby: into a new international market, they kind of get like 397 00:21:27,420 --> 00:21:30,200 Sabri Suby: an office, a virtual office. And they stick some poor 398 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,650 Sabri Suby: guy in there and they basically send out a press release, 399 00:21:33,650 --> 00:21:35,300 Sabri Suby: and that's kind of the end of it. And it's 400 00:21:35,300 --> 00:21:37,940 Sabri Suby: like it's more of a vanity thing where they might 401 00:21:37,940 --> 00:21:41,180 Sabri Suby: have one client in that region and they need to 402 00:21:41,180 --> 00:21:44,120 Sabri Suby: have some kind of physical presence to support that client. 403 00:21:44,660 --> 00:21:48,200 Sabri Suby: With us, where we've been ranked by the Australian Financial 404 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,260 Sabri Suby: Review as the number one fastest growing digital marketing agency 405 00:21:51,260 --> 00:21:53,780 Sabri Suby: in the country for the last several years in a row. Right. 406 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,770 Sabri Suby: So we've been fortunate enough to get some really, you know, 407 00:21:57,980 --> 00:22:01,730 Sabri Suby: strong traction and growth in the Australian market. And for 408 00:22:01,730 --> 00:22:05,690 Sabri Suby: us an international aggressive rollout means there's two million small 409 00:22:05,690 --> 00:22:10,520 Sabri Suby: businesses in Australia, right? There's 60 million in the US, 410 00:22:11,030 --> 00:22:14,060 Sabri Suby: there's six million in the UK. Like if you look 411 00:22:14,060 --> 00:22:16,790 Sabri Suby: at just the English speaking countries around the world, like 412 00:22:16,970 --> 00:22:20,000 Sabri Suby: Australia is really a drop in the ocean of the 413 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,030 Sabri Suby: size of the opportunity that's out there. And all of 414 00:22:23,030 --> 00:22:27,649 Sabri Suby: the businesses, whether you're located in Orange County in California 415 00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:30,260 Sabri Suby: or you're in the northern beaches in Sydney, if you 416 00:22:30,260 --> 00:22:33,290 Sabri Suby: run a business, the thing that is constant is you're 417 00:22:33,290 --> 00:22:36,210 Sabri Suby: going to be wanting to get more customers. And that's 418 00:22:36,210 --> 00:22:39,530 Sabri Suby: just the problem that we’re really solving and the way that we're 419 00:22:39,530 --> 00:22:43,909 Sabri Suby: going out there and expanding into these markets aggressively is 420 00:22:43,910 --> 00:22:47,540 Sabri Suby: by marketing our business aggressively. We're already in the position 421 00:22:47,540 --> 00:22:50,240 Sabri Suby: where we've got clients in one hundred and thirty five 422 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,170 Sabri Suby: different countries around the world. And it's really gotten to 423 00:22:54,170 --> 00:22:57,680 Sabri Suby: a point where if anything our international expansion is overdue. 424 00:22:57,950 --> 00:23:00,830 Sabri Suby: We're getting into a position where the demand for our 425 00:23:00,830 --> 00:23:04,490 Sabri Suby: services is kind of tipping into the balance of in 426 00:23:04,550 --> 00:23:07,879 Sabri Suby: the Northern Hemisphere countries, really, them not being able to 427 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,160 Sabri Suby: find people that can deliver the results that we're able 428 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,140 Sabri Suby: to deliver all the way here in Australia. So you're 429 00:23:12,140 --> 00:23:15,920 Sabri Suby: getting people in New York hiring a Melbourne digital marketing 430 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,520 Sabri Suby: agency to help them solve these problems. So we're just 431 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,960 Sabri Suby: kind of advocating our messaging, our whole standpoint, and aggressively 432 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,540 Sabri Suby: marketing that into those markets to kind of roll out 433 00:23:26,540 --> 00:23:27,930 Sabri Suby: and to further fill that demand. 434 00:23:28,350 --> 00:23:31,520 Adam Lang: Sabri, I know the King Kong story has really only 435 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,679 Adam Lang: just started. So good luck to you for the rest 436 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,709 Adam Lang: of the journey. And, Sabri, again, thank you so much for 437 00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:37,949 Adam Lang: talking to Fear and Greed today. 438 00:23:38,150 --> 00:23:39,680 Sabri Suby: No problems. Thanks for having me on. 439 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,119 Adam Lang: That was Sabri Suby, founder of King Kong, Australia's fastest 440 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,020 Adam Lang: growing digital marketing agency. 441 00:23:46,580 --> 00:23:49,459 Adam Lang: This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join Sean 442 00:23:49,460 --> 00:23:52,160 Adam Lang: Aylmer every weekday morning for the full Fear and Greed 443 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,990 Adam Lang: podcast with all the business news you need to know. 444 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,290 Adam Lang: I'm Adam Lang. Enjoy your day.