1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,510 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,510 --> 00:00:11,250 Speaker 1: Aylmer. Anyone involved in cryptocurrency would be familiar with Coinbase. 3 00:00:11,369 --> 00:00:14,550 Speaker 1: It's the largest crypto exchange in the US listed on 4 00:00:14,550 --> 00:00:17,070 Speaker 1: the NASDAQ and the only exchange in the world to be 5 00:00:17,070 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: regulated by the SEC. And last week it launched in 6 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: Australia. Remember, this is general information only and you should 7 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,870 Speaker 1: get professional advice before making an investment decision. John O 8 00:00:27,870 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: Loughlin is the Coinbase Australia country director. John, welcome to 9 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: Fear and Greed. 10 00:00:33,030 --> 00:00:33,990 Speaker 2: Hey, good day Sean. Thanks for having me. 11 00:00:35,010 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: Okay, so break it right down for someone like me, 12 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,730 Speaker 1: John. What exactly does Coinbase do? 13 00:00:41,731 --> 00:00:44,580 Speaker 2: Okay. In the most simplistic terms, we're a digital exchange 14 00:00:44,970 --> 00:00:49,470 Speaker 2: for digital assets listing over 200 assets, 103 million verified 15 00:00:49,470 --> 00:00:55,380 Speaker 2: users across a hundred plus countries. H1 2022, half a trillion 16 00:00:55,440 --> 00:01:02,190 Speaker 2: USD traded 256 billion USD of assets on platform, 30 17 00:01:02,190 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 2: billion plus assets on platform estate across over 25 protocols. And 18 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,450 Speaker 2: clearly we have been exposed to Australia for a long 19 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 2: time through our legacy kind of cross border app. And 20 00:01:16,350 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 2: last week we were delighted to launch an Australian kind 21 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,380 Speaker 2: of dedicated app with a bunch of feet to make 22 00:01:22,380 --> 00:01:27,990 Speaker 2: it vastly more easy to trade. The under arching mission 23 00:01:28,170 --> 00:01:31,860 Speaker 2: of Coinbase from our founder Brian Armstrong, right through to 24 00:01:31,860 --> 00:01:36,150 Speaker 2: the entire organization and this is really very much the 25 00:01:36,450 --> 00:01:39,630 Speaker 2: tenant and culture of every employee at the country and 26 00:01:39,630 --> 00:01:42,569 Speaker 2: the company rather is increasing economic freedom in the world 27 00:01:42,810 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 2: and that's really simple. I think we all know that crypto 28 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 2: and blockchain web three is a huge democratization of finance 29 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,380 Speaker 2: potentially and that's what we're about in terms of that 30 00:01:52,380 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: the foundations of the business, trust, safety, ease of use. 31 00:01:57,420 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 2: It sounds simple and pedestrian, but I think coming from 32 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,300 Speaker 2: a financial services background and working for some big marketplaces 33 00:02:03,300 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 2: and big payment rails and providers and wallets before in 34 00:02:07,470 --> 00:02:12,510 Speaker 2: 2022 and particularly in Australia in October, 2022, those three 35 00:02:12,510 --> 00:02:15,389 Speaker 2: things or the first two trust and safety are paramount. 36 00:02:15,389 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: So, that's a huge part of our brand and I 37 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,940 Speaker 2: believe our brand premium and value is around that trust 38 00:02:21,180 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 2: and ease of use. 39 00:02:22,710 --> 00:02:26,460 Speaker 1: Okay. So how many people were already using Coinbase in Australia 40 00:02:26,460 --> 00:02:28,230 Speaker 1: and what does the change mean for them? 41 00:02:28,590 --> 00:02:31,139 Speaker 2: So, we had well north of a million users in 42 00:02:31,139 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 2: the market over the last decade plus. And those people 43 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 2: might have picked up the app when they're overseas or 44 00:02:36,930 --> 00:02:39,900 Speaker 2: then another life. At some point in time, we thought 45 00:02:39,900 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 2: it was important to migrate the Moreton Australian entity. The 46 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 2: major feature, which is really a game changer for everyone 47 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,110 Speaker 2: is that we're now integrated on the NPP, the new 48 00:02:49,110 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: payment platform via PayID. I mean, our partner, really impressive, 49 00:02:54,419 --> 00:02:58,110 Speaker 2: fast rising FinTech player, Zepto. I don't know if your 50 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,110 Speaker 2: users have heard of Zepto, but they're a provider to 51 00:03:01,110 --> 00:03:05,490 Speaker 2: a lot of marketplaces online checkouts and are really I think 52 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,419 Speaker 2: taking advantage of the efficiency of the Australian payment systems 53 00:03:09,419 --> 00:03:12,630 Speaker 2: and networks and we're a beneficiary of that. So PayID 54 00:03:12,630 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: gets us into about 95% of all citizens or users 55 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 2: with a bank account in Australia. And that allows you 56 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,530 Speaker 2: within 45 seconds to a minute and a half to re- 57 00:03:22,530 --> 00:03:26,490 Speaker 2: enter the platform, Re-KYC do all your AML and be up and running 58 00:03:26,490 --> 00:03:29,190 Speaker 2: on the old platform. You transfer all your old assets, 59 00:03:29,190 --> 00:03:31,590 Speaker 2: all your balances, but what it really allows you to 60 00:03:31,590 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 2: do is buy and sell and trade in and out 61 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,180 Speaker 2: of crypto and cash in and out a lot easier. 62 00:03:36,660 --> 00:03:41,670 Speaker 2: We call PayID Fiat rails, so Aussie dollar rails. Whereas previously we 63 00:03:41,670 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 2: had a Fiat light offering which relied on Visa and 64 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,270 Speaker 2: MasterCard, debit and credit cards and there were certain limitations 65 00:03:48,270 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 2: put on how much you could trade at $ 375 for 66 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,150 Speaker 2: example. Sometimes it was difficult to cash in and out 67 00:03:54,210 --> 00:03:57,300 Speaker 2: due to limitations from the banks and lots of people 68 00:03:57,300 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 2: had issues around deep banking, et cetera, et cetera. So 69 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 2: now we are fully regulated both with Oz Track. We've 70 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,350 Speaker 2: had an asset entity in the market since late last 71 00:04:07,350 --> 00:04:11,070 Speaker 2: year and we're just delighted to be in business. 72 00:04:11,490 --> 00:04:14,220 Speaker 1: Okay. Now you said about 200 digital assets, is that 73 00:04:14,220 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: right On the exchange? 74 00:04:15,450 --> 00:04:18,810 Speaker 2: Correct. Yeah. Look, we clearly know there are a lot 75 00:04:18,810 --> 00:04:20,310 Speaker 2: more assets and tokens out there. 76 00:04:20,700 --> 00:04:23,370 Speaker 1: How do you choose the 200 is actually my question. 77 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,980 Speaker 2: That is the big question that we get asked frequently 78 00:04:25,980 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 2: and it's been great having all of these colleagues from 79 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 2: international and market the last few weeks. 80 00:04:30,779 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. 81 00:04:31,140 --> 00:04:33,870 Speaker 2: We've been meeting with every manner of stable coin and 82 00:04:33,870 --> 00:04:37,590 Speaker 2: gaming token and learn and earn player in the market 83 00:04:37,950 --> 00:04:41,370 Speaker 2: and there's a massive amount of domestic Aussie activity and 84 00:04:41,370 --> 00:04:43,500 Speaker 2: we've got a handful of Aussie assets listed as well, 85 00:04:44,070 --> 00:04:46,410 Speaker 2: which you can find if you search on the app, 86 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:51,089 Speaker 2: but due to being the first publicly traded crypto exchange, 87 00:04:51,779 --> 00:04:54,450 Speaker 2: the only exchange in the 4G 500 in terms of largest 88 00:04:54,450 --> 00:04:57,270 Speaker 2: in the US and having this history of governance and 89 00:04:57,270 --> 00:05:02,490 Speaker 2: compliance, we take a very serious approach to reviewing assets. 90 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,900 Speaker 2: So we have assets listing team. They operate like an 91 00:05:06,900 --> 00:05:10,710 Speaker 2: independent body with a Chinese wall around them to avoid 92 00:05:10,710 --> 00:05:14,430 Speaker 2: any conflict of interest. And it's about on average a 93 00:05:14,430 --> 00:05:19,890 Speaker 2: 75 day due diligence process. Things can happen as quickly 94 00:05:19,890 --> 00:05:21,179 Speaker 2: as a week, you can be up and listed and 95 00:05:21,180 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 2: quickly as a week if we know the teams and 96 00:05:23,550 --> 00:05:26,130 Speaker 2: we're using a variety of offline and online processes. We 97 00:05:26,130 --> 00:05:30,900 Speaker 2: have a huge library of fraudulent activity and code that 98 00:05:30,900 --> 00:05:33,539 Speaker 2: may raise red flags. We actually go out and physically 99 00:05:33,540 --> 00:05:37,529 Speaker 2: meet and greet teams. We had a really exciting token 100 00:05:37,529 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 2: partner in Australia who've been listed on some other exchanges. 101 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 2: Had a few roller coaster experiences and lost some money and 102 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 2: they actually wanted to do a physical meet and greet 103 00:05:48,540 --> 00:05:51,300 Speaker 2: proof of life of John O Loughlin at Coinbase. 104 00:05:51,510 --> 00:05:51,900 Speaker 1: Right. 105 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 2: Because they weren't too sure that my email was necessarily 106 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,050 Speaker 2: real due to some previous experience they have. So, we 107 00:05:58,050 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: take all this stuff super seriously. Big teams dedicated to 108 00:06:00,990 --> 00:06:03,570 Speaker 2: lots of internal systems we've built ourselves. 109 00:06:04,050 --> 00:06:04,290 Speaker 1: Yep. 110 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,890 Speaker 2: And lots of classic offline access. We also look at 111 00:06:07,890 --> 00:06:10,230 Speaker 2: profiles of teams. We check their LinkedIn, we check their 112 00:06:10,230 --> 00:06:14,550 Speaker 2: Twitter accounts, all our activity, we check on discord, telegram, 113 00:06:15,060 --> 00:06:17,550 Speaker 2: messages, et cetera, et cetera, just to make sure these are 114 00:06:18,060 --> 00:06:22,260 Speaker 2: really verified real teams and real projects. Like any exchange, 115 00:06:22,260 --> 00:06:24,119 Speaker 2: the last thing we want is something to pump and 116 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:29,190 Speaker 2: dump and trail off into the ether and that's super 117 00:06:29,190 --> 00:06:29,820 Speaker 2: important to us. 118 00:06:30,420 --> 00:06:32,190 Speaker 1: Stay with me John, we'll be back in a minute. 119 00:06:38,190 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: I'm speaking Bitcoin based Australia country director John O Loughlin. Okay, the 120 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,190 Speaker 1: sector itself is probably lightly regulated is a good way 121 00:06:47,190 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: of putting it. Is the prospect of regulation a good 122 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:52,590 Speaker 1: or a bad thing? 123 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:57,089 Speaker 2: We are leaning in on regulation and we believe there's 124 00:06:57,089 --> 00:07:00,810 Speaker 2: a massive opportunity in Australia for really sound best in 125 00:07:00,810 --> 00:07:04,140 Speaker 2: class global leading regulation on this space. And you are 126 00:07:04,140 --> 00:07:07,289 Speaker 2: right, historically to date it has been light. And I 127 00:07:07,290 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: think typically the commonwealth regulators do take a somewhat hands 128 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,830 Speaker 2: off approach to the market because they have these really 129 00:07:13,830 --> 00:07:17,730 Speaker 2: strong principle based kind of pillars and place. And whether 130 00:07:17,730 --> 00:07:20,670 Speaker 2: you're talking to the RBA or Treasury or APRA or ASIC or 131 00:07:20,700 --> 00:07:25,290 Speaker 2: Oztrack, they are very well coordinated behind the scenes and what 132 00:07:25,290 --> 00:07:28,350 Speaker 2: they're doing. And we've been fortunate to be talking to 133 00:07:28,350 --> 00:07:31,950 Speaker 2: them for a long time and talking frequently and getting 134 00:07:31,950 --> 00:07:34,590 Speaker 2: real kind of outreach from them as they look to 135 00:07:34,590 --> 00:07:37,410 Speaker 2: kind of learn and understand what's best in class globally. 136 00:07:37,980 --> 00:07:41,820 Speaker 2: We have a pretty senior and serious policy team and 137 00:07:41,820 --> 00:07:43,530 Speaker 2: we're flying people in and out of the market who 138 00:07:43,530 --> 00:07:46,620 Speaker 2: are looking at stuff in the EU, Singapore, the Middle 139 00:07:46,620 --> 00:07:50,610 Speaker 2: East, the Caribbeans becoming an active player in this space. 140 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:55,830 Speaker 2: And it's really pleasantly surprising when I'm on these webinars 141 00:07:55,830 --> 00:07:59,820 Speaker 2: or these end meeting, think tanks or workshops. There are 142 00:07:59,820 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: lots of digital native people in there really asking us 143 00:08:03,180 --> 00:08:07,020 Speaker 2: meaningful questions, looking for specific data points. So I think 144 00:08:07,020 --> 00:08:09,510 Speaker 2: it's not a matter of if, but when. Certainly there's 145 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,330 Speaker 2: been a change of government. Like anyone, I took a 146 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,940 Speaker 2: while to get my feet under the desk at Coinbase. The 147 00:08:14,940 --> 00:08:18,330 Speaker 2: people down in Canberra obviously doing that, but in concert 148 00:08:18,570 --> 00:08:22,380 Speaker 2: in parallel, we're seeing really nice progress from the regulators. 149 00:08:22,380 --> 00:08:25,890 Speaker 2: So, we are looking forward to that outlook and participating 150 00:08:25,890 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 2: and being part of that, I think there's going to be some really 151 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:32,849 Speaker 2: interesting trials and experiments happening around stable coins, central bank, 152 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,459 Speaker 2: digital currency, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, watch this 153 00:08:35,460 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 2: space, but it doesn't concern us and we like regulation 154 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: that provides a level playing field. 155 00:08:42,809 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: I mean thing about regulation, well regulation can contribute to 156 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,420 Speaker 1: confidence, investor confidence and if that's the case, suddenly it 157 00:08:51,420 --> 00:08:54,179 Speaker 1: opens up whole new opportunity. So I know Coinbase has 158 00:08:54,179 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: been doing some work with RMIT here in Australia focusing 159 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:03,270 Speaker 1: on technology that underpins crypto and the opportunities there. It's 160 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,750 Speaker 1: not just about trading, someone buying and selling Bitcoin, it's 161 00:09:07,140 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 1: about the technology underneath it and the opportunity for Australia as 162 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: an economy in the next 5, 10, 15 years, isn't it? 163 00:09:13,170 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 2: Sean, 100% I really urge people to do a search 164 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,220 Speaker 2: for the R M I T Coinbase Institute white paper 165 00:09:20,700 --> 00:09:23,429 Speaker 2: out a couple of weeks ago and to the teams 166 00:09:23,429 --> 00:09:27,329 Speaker 2: at RMIT, I mean just a massive hats off. I don't 167 00:09:27,330 --> 00:09:31,620 Speaker 2: think people domestically appreciate. This Tertiary institute is churning out 168 00:09:31,620 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: the second largest number of blockchain graduates globally after Harvard. 169 00:09:35,580 --> 00:09:38,579 Speaker 2: U N S W is a top 10 ranked blockchain 170 00:09:39,090 --> 00:09:43,260 Speaker 2: program for students. And the professors at RMIT really put 171 00:09:43,260 --> 00:09:46,290 Speaker 2: this into context and it sounds like you've read it, 172 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,050 Speaker 2: which I'm very grateful for and humbled. Humbled by to 173 00:09:49,050 --> 00:09:51,420 Speaker 2: be on someone podcast who's actually read it because we 174 00:09:51,420 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 2: are over- blowing with white papers and crypto and blockchain. 175 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:56,939 Speaker 2: Let's just be honest, there's a hell of a lot of them out 176 00:09:56,940 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 2: there as everyone tries to build a business case around 177 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 2: a token. And this is a good one because it 178 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 2: looks back at the Australian economy in the context of 179 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,189 Speaker 2: the end of the colonial era when we had to 180 00:10:08,190 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 2: stop the subsidies around wool and beef going back to 181 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,620 Speaker 2: the mothership in England. Then you looked at the post 182 00:10:13,620 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 2: written Woods monetary system, you looked at terms of trade, 183 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,650 Speaker 2: you looked at the resources, boom. Maybe an over reliance 184 00:10:19,650 --> 00:10:23,100 Speaker 2: on that. How has the Aussie dollar traditionally played against 185 00:10:23,100 --> 00:10:26,790 Speaker 2: the US dollar? And then most recently in the pre- 186 00:10:27,150 --> 00:10:32,670 Speaker 2: COVID post- COVID analysis, supply chain security. And that's where 187 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,059 Speaker 2: super exciting things are happening in terms of a transparent 188 00:10:36,450 --> 00:10:40,530 Speaker 2: terms of trade documentation and supply chain, supply finance, et 189 00:10:40,530 --> 00:10:46,739 Speaker 2: cetera, et cetera. And even remittances, Australia in 2022 is 190 00:10:46,740 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 2: very different to Australia even in 2002 in terms of 191 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:55,110 Speaker 2: demographics. Lots of young first generation recent migrants looking to 192 00:10:55,110 --> 00:10:58,710 Speaker 2: move money all over the world, really upset at the 193 00:10:58,710 --> 00:11:02,070 Speaker 2: fees they get charged by the big banks. Getting absolutely 194 00:11:02,070 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 2: slotted there. I'm one of those people. I've got family 195 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:09,540 Speaker 2: in Europe and relatives overseas. And very quickly some of the 196 00:11:09,540 --> 00:11:13,890 Speaker 2: stable coin solutions for remittances are proving to be incredibly 197 00:11:13,890 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 2: efficient and fast ways of moving money cross border. So 198 00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 2: that's a little bit of a longwinded answer to your 199 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,610 Speaker 2: question, Sean, but I think you've got to look at 200 00:11:23,610 --> 00:11:25,650 Speaker 2: it in this context and say, " Okay, where are we 201 00:11:25,650 --> 00:11:28,740 Speaker 2: going as an economy in the future?" We obviously need 202 00:11:28,740 --> 00:11:31,770 Speaker 2: more human capital in this space. That's been evidenced at 203 00:11:31,770 --> 00:11:34,860 Speaker 2: the job summits where they talked about sparks is in 204 00:11:34,860 --> 00:11:37,530 Speaker 2: traders becoming solar engineers. I think we've got to take 205 00:11:37,530 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 2: it one step further. I saw Mike Cannon- Brookes taking 206 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,390 Speaker 2: his bus out on the road trying to recruit people 207 00:11:42,660 --> 00:11:46,620 Speaker 2: all over Australia. I don't know you call that, but we're a 208 00:11:46,620 --> 00:11:51,030 Speaker 2: global organization. We are looking for talent and finding talent 209 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,090 Speaker 2: everywhere and Australia's a long way away from a lot 210 00:11:54,090 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 2: of places. So if you can be a little bit 211 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 2: more digital native remote organization, you can benefit from that. 212 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,670 Speaker 1: John, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 213 00:12:03,300 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Sean. Congrats on the podcast. 214 00:12:05,790 --> 00:12:09,630 Speaker 1: That was Coinbase Australia country director John O Loughlin. This 215 00:12:09,630 --> 00:12:12,030 Speaker 1: is a Fear and Greed daily interview. Remember, this information 216 00:12:12,030 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: is general in nature and you should seek professional advice 217 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,580 Speaker 1: before making any investment decisions. Join us every morning for 218 00:12:17,580 --> 00:12:20,100 Speaker 1: the full episode of Fear and Greed. Australia's most popular 219 00:12:20,100 --> 00:12:22,770 Speaker 1: business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.