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Speaker 1: From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Friday, February sixth, twenty twenty six. The Prime Ministership

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Speaker 1: of Sir Kis Starmer in the United Kingdom is looking

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Speaker 1: terminal and it's all thanks to the Epstein Files, a

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Speaker 1: huge release of documents by the US Department of Justice

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Speaker 1: related to the late child sex offender and financier Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 1: Those files have already cost the former Prince Andrew his

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Speaker 1: titles and family. Now another UK establishment figure looks likely

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Speaker 1: to fall. Starmer appointed Lord Peter Mandelsson, a senior British

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Speaker 1: labor figure, to be the UK ambassador in Washington, DC,

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Speaker 1: despite knowing Mandalsson was closely connected to Epstein. Now Starmer

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Speaker 1: says Mandlsson lied to him. Although Mandlsson has not been

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Speaker 1: charged with anything, he's under investigation by UK police and

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Speaker 1: under pressure to give evidence before the American Congress. Today,

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Speaker 1: Chief International Correspondent Cameron Stewart is here to discuss the

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Speaker 1: fallout for the British Establishment, for Donald Trump, and for

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Speaker 1: our understanding of how sex and power really interact. Remember

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Speaker 1: when this was the most obnoxious thing a Duchess could do,

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Speaker 1: but you keep.

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Speaker 2: Saying, Megan Mirkel, you know him Sussex. Now you have

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Speaker 2: kids and you go no, I share my name with

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Speaker 2: my children. Yes, and that feels so. I didn't know

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Speaker 2: how meaningful it would be to me, but it just

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Speaker 2: means so much to go this.

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Speaker 1: Poor old Meghan Markle has been the subject of international

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Speaker 1: ridicule for fatting around with pretzels and essential oils, and,

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Speaker 1: along with Prince Harry, rocketed to the bottom of the

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Speaker 1: Royal popularity rankings. Meanwhile, one generation older, the former Duke

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Speaker 1: and Duchess of York, Andrew mount Batten Wins and Sarah Ferguson,

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Speaker 1: were courting, hosting, and sucking up to a convicted pedophile.

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Speaker 1: We've used voice actors to bring you, the words apparently

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Speaker 1: written by the couple to Epstein and his girlfriend and

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Speaker 1: co offender, Gilaine Maxwell, according to documents released by the

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Speaker 1: United States Department of Justice. Here's Andrew to Epstein.

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Speaker 3: We could have dinner at Buckingham Palace and lots of

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Speaker 3: privacy delighted for you to come here to BP. Come

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Speaker 3: with whom ever, and I'll be here free from sixteen

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Speaker 3: hundred dish.

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Speaker 1: And here's someone who refers to himself only as a

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Speaker 1: emailing Maxwell.

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Speaker 3: Look forward to catching up with you before you disappeared

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Speaker 3: to some exotic place, and please don't catch anything nasty

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Speaker 3: on your travels. Masses of love and thanks a kiss, kiss, kiss.

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Speaker 1: But Andrew's words are positively frosty compared with his ex

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Speaker 1: wife's effusiveness.

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Speaker 4: Can you come down to Royal Lodge on Wednesday? I

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Speaker 4: have never been more touched by a friend's kindness than

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Speaker 4: your compliment to me in front of my girls. Thank you,

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Speaker 4: Jeffrey for being the brother I always wished for. I

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Speaker 4: really don't have the words to describe my love gratitude

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Speaker 4: for your generosity and kindness. I am at your service.

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Speaker 4: Just marry me.

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Speaker 1: Those communications were after Epstein came out of jail having

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Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to child prostitution offenses. He later died in

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Speaker 1: prison awaiting trial on child sex trafficking charges. Maxwell is

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Speaker 1: presently in prison serving a two decade sentence for child

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Speaker 1: sex trafficking. The true extent of Andrew and Sarah's communication

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Speaker 1: with Epstein after he was revealed to be a pedophile

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Speaker 1: and now becoming clear, even though both said they had

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Speaker 1: cut him dead.

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Speaker 5: I said look, because of what has happened, I don't

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Speaker 5: think it is appropriate that we should remain in contact

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Speaker 5: and by mutual agreement, during that walk in the park,

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Speaker 5: we decided that we would part company and I left.

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Speaker 5: I think it was the next day, and to this

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Speaker 5: day I never had any contact with him from that

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Speaker 5: day forward.

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Speaker 1: Cameron Stewart is the Australian's chief international correspondent. Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: is projecting something like relief after the final Tranch files

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Speaker 1: were dumped by the Department of Justice. This issue has

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Speaker 1: become part of the split in Trump's Make America Great

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Speaker 1: Again movement. Those mega people who were convinced that there

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Speaker 1: was a deep state that was hiding pedophiles at the

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Speaker 1: highest level, they began demanding Trump live up to his

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Speaker 1: promise to release these files in full. He did it,

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Speaker 1: I think, reluctantly, and now he's saying that it's over,

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Speaker 1: let's move on. Do you think, given that we've now

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Speaker 1: seen the full extent of these files, that it worked

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Speaker 1: to clear Trump and to damage his enemies, or has

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Speaker 1: it blown up in his face by spreading the mark

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Speaker 1: further than maybe he even imagined.

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Speaker 6: Well, it's certainly been a hugely messy episode. For Donald Trump, because,

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Speaker 6: as you say, he was elected in part on the

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Speaker 6: promise to release all the Epstein files. Then of course

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Speaker 6: he went cold and making people think, well, maybe there's

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Speaker 6: something about him inside those files. As you say, most

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Speaker 6: of them have now been released, the vast majority. However,

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Speaker 6: there still are quite a few that have been redacted

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Speaker 6: on national security grounds. And this is the thing with

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Speaker 6: this sort of accusations of is there a conspiracy involved,

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Speaker 6: shady dealings, hidden documents. You know, until all the documents

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Speaker 6: come out, there will still be people saying that Donald

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Speaker 6: Trump was implicated in some way, and it still hasn't

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Speaker 6: come out, So this will be a debate that continues

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Speaker 6: and on. However, as you say, at this minute, with

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Speaker 6: the majority of the ones we think are going to

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Speaker 6: be released already released, Trump has effectively escaped being caught up.

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Speaker 6: And we've had photographs of him and Epstein, but there've

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Speaker 6: only been very early days. There's been no documents that

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Speaker 6: suggest that he's been to Epstein's island or has had

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Speaker 6: incredible communication with him subsequent to be convicted for child

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Speaker 6: sex offenses. So as far as the politics of Donald

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Speaker 6: Trump goes, he is okay at the moment. I mean,

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Speaker 6: he's so far worse. He had the access Hollywood tapes

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Speaker 6: in the first term, he said, Stormy Daniel, occusations of affairs,

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Speaker 6: and many others as well. I mean, this is small

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Speaker 6: beer compared to any of that, given that he hasn't

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Speaker 6: been caught up in the whirlpool as many other people

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Speaker 6: have been. So look, I think on balance, Trump comes

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Speaker 6: out of this okay. America doesn't come out of it

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Speaker 6: so well. It's just such a grubby episode about high

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Speaker 6: echelon favors, et cetera, et cetera. So it hasn't been

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Speaker 6: a nice episode for anyone involved. But Trump, I don't

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Speaker 6: think is politically wounded by this in the way that

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Speaker 6: he feared he might be.

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Speaker 1: Of course, the Trump camp says that it was Trump

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Speaker 1: who kind of stopped the party that he had Epstein

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Speaker 1: kicked out of his membership at Marra Lago after he

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Speaker 1: realized that he was a creep. But someone who is

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Speaker 1: mentioned throughout the files is Bill Clinton, the former president

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Speaker 1: and of course husband of Trump's presidential rival at his

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Speaker 1: first election, Hillary Clinton. His name and photo are all

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Speaker 1: through the files, although there's no evidence he committed any

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Speaker 1: offenses himself or knew about Epstein's offending Trump came to

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Speaker 1: power suggesting that the Clintons were criminals and were part

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Speaker 1: of a degenerate elite. Is that a win for Trump,

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Speaker 1: that the Clintons are damaged?

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Speaker 6: Look, I mean it's a small win in the sense

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Speaker 6: that definitely are damaged to the extent that we've seen,

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Speaker 6: you know, photographs at Bill Clinton in a spa with

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Speaker 6: the young lady sitting on his lap. We don't know

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Speaker 6: any more than that. The emails haven't suggested any more

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Speaker 6: than that, but you know, it's not a good look

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Speaker 6: for the Clintons obviously, and you know there's a Democrat

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Speaker 6: royalty to that degree. I saw Donald Trump, but really

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Speaker 6: it's a fairly mine. I think it's sort of something

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Speaker 6: that I think Trump wanted to see happen. But I

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Speaker 6: don't think it picular the advantages trumping anyway. I'm in

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Speaker 6: the Clintons Yesterday's story. As far as politics are concerned, the.

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Speaker 1: Most real political impact seems to be at the moment

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Speaker 1: in the UK. We have heard the things that Prince

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Speaker 1: Andrew and Sarah, the former Duchess of York were saying

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Speaker 1: to Epstein, including after he was convicted and it's now

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Speaker 1: clear that they were not telling the truth when they

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Speaker 1: said that they had disavowed him completely after they realized

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Speaker 1: that he was an offender. What does it tell us

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Speaker 1: about King Charles's instinct last year to dump Andrew from

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Speaker 1: the royal family and kick him out of Royal Lodge camp.

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Speaker 6: You do wonder whether Charles knew a little more than

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Speaker 6: he let on at the time as far as this

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Speaker 6: situation and then these emails, the photographs, et cetera. Obviously,

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Speaker 6: I mean Prince Andrew or Andrew and Matt Battens is

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Speaker 6: now known really is probably the person who's most center

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Speaker 6: of this whole scandal, and it's a pretty ugly look

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Speaker 6: what's happened with him and Fergie. You think that King

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Speaker 6: Charles has known a little bit more about this, Maybe

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Speaker 6: even Andrew Todd Will warned him that something's becoming, but

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Speaker 6: he's pretty much cut him off from the royal family

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Speaker 6: with all these titles, etc. I also wonder whether Prince William,

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Speaker 6: as the heir apparent, is said to have been quite

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Speaker 6: active in getting his uncle's sidelined from the royal family,

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Speaker 6: knowing that it would be a stench that would follow

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Speaker 6: the family unless they cut him clean.

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Speaker 1: Coming up the sordid story of Lord Peter Mandelssohn. One

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Speaker 1: of the most stark photographs in the Epstein files is

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Speaker 1: a middle aged man standing with a young woman. She's

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Speaker 1: wearing a bathrobe, He's wearing a top and some white underpants.

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Speaker 1: That is Peter Mandelsson, a senior figure in the British

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Speaker 1: Labor Party, a member of the House of Lords, a

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Speaker 1: former minister, and someone who sa Kiirs Starmer, the Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister appointed to be ambassador to Washington, d C. To

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Speaker 1: the Court of Donald Trump after Starmer knew that Mandalsshon

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Speaker 1: had had dealings with Jeffrey Epstein. Although again there's no

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Speaker 1: suggestion that Stalmer knew of any offending all that Mandalson's

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Speaker 1: guilty of anything. What does this mean for Kir Starmer?

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Speaker 6: Kirs Starmer is in trouble in relation to this scandal.

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Speaker 6: One of two outcomes, One is very bad and one

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Speaker 6: could be terminal. It's as simple as that Starmer really

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Speaker 6: has had an epic misjudgment in appointing Madelson as Ambassador

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Speaker 6: to Washington, of course, Britain's most important diplomatic post. What's

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Speaker 6: now clear as a result of the latest revelations Claire

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Speaker 6: is that he did know before he appointed Mandelsson that

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Speaker 6: Mandelsson stayed in Epstein's New York apartment when Epstein was

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Speaker 6: in jail. That is not a good look, and that

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Speaker 6: he had a nine going relationship with Epstein. Again, that's

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Speaker 6: not a good look. Now Starmer says, look, I didn't

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Speaker 6: know the extent of that relationship. If I did know,

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Speaker 6: I would never have appointed him, etc. Etc. But even

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Speaker 6: if he's right, the fact of what he did know

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Speaker 6: about staying in the apartment and the relationship would surely

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Speaker 6: be a red warning light. But it seems that any

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Speaker 6: investigation into the question of the relationship between Madelson and

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Speaker 6: Epstein was very, very thin and almost a joke really,

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Speaker 6: and so they took a massive risk to send him

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Speaker 6: in that circumstance, and guess what, it's blown up in

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Speaker 6: their face. And it's a real problem for Starman now

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Speaker 6: because he's got very little reserves left as far as

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Speaker 6: his support within the Labor Party. He's in free fall

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Speaker 6: in the polls. This could not have come at a

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Speaker 6: worse time, and it's not going to go away quickly

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Speaker 6: because Mandelson is now being criminally investigated. So you can

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Speaker 6: imagine this is a story that's going to drag off

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Speaker 6: and haunt Starma for quite a long time.

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Speaker 1: You were living in the United States cam As Washington,

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Speaker 1: DC correspondent, traveling all over the country while this sort

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Speaker 1: of conspiracy movement was rising QAnon, which convinced.

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Speaker 4: A lot of people that there were dark.

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Speaker 1: Things going on involving sexual offenses against children at the

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Speaker 1: highest levels, and a lot of that is obviously nonsense.

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Speaker 1: You know, there were theories about pizza shops where people

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Speaker 1: were being tortured and so on. But now that we

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Speaker 1: see that actually there was a network of very wealthy

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Speaker 1: people who at the very least were friends with someone

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Speaker 1: who was committing child sex offenses and was in a

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Speaker 1: very dark place. What does that tell you about America's

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Speaker 1: political elite at that time.

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Speaker 6: They're pretty shocking revelations in the sense that, of course,

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Speaker 6: you know that it doesn't involve conspiracies. I mean, the

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Speaker 6: Magat crowd was not quite on the money there. It

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Speaker 6: doesn't involve dark conspiracies see rooms, et cetera, et ceterable.

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Speaker 6: What does show is a privileged elite revolving, if you like,

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Speaker 6: around one man who created this whirlpool of connection I

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Speaker 6: mean he was obsessive. Epstein was obsessive about networking connections,

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Speaker 6: created this group of very privileged men, bought them in

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Speaker 6: so they could fraternize with young girls. And what is extraordinary, Claire,

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Speaker 6: is these high profile names that we saw across the files,

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Speaker 6: people who must a have obviously had a moral bypass

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Speaker 6: in getting involved, but be extraordinarily assumed they would not

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Speaker 6: get caught. And you know, it's all coming out now,

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Speaker 6: But this incredible confidence with which they participated in these events,

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Speaker 6: and we talk about you know, Prince Andrew and a

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Speaker 6: whole bunch of other people, Bill Gates, etc. Being named

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Speaker 6: in the files. Did they not think this would come out?

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Speaker 6: I mean, it's really quite an extraordinary circumstance and it's

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Speaker 6: a real eye opener, I think for ordinary people to

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Speaker 6: look at the activities as some of these rich and

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Speaker 6: powerful people and just wonder, Wow, we had no idea

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Speaker 6: that sort of stuff happened.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of this idea too, of sex as a

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Speaker 1: kind of corporate bonding activity or as a group sport.

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Speaker 1: I mean, until now, we've thought about that as something

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Speaker 1: that rugby league teams do when they're away on camps.

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Speaker 1: You know, did it surprise you that senior men, senior

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Speaker 1: in politics in business would even be interested in that,

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Speaker 1: or am I a bit naive here?

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Speaker 6: That's a good question. I just am more surprised. I

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Speaker 6: think that they thought they'd get away with it. It

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Speaker 6: just seems really such a curious case that they wouldn't

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Speaker 6: have thought that some people involved would not talk and

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Speaker 6: that I mean, iPhones are ubiquitous everywhere in the world.

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Speaker 6: I mean, there wouldn't be photographs it. It just seems

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Speaker 6: extraordinary to me. I guess that shows that they were

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Speaker 6: in such a rarefied bubble they didn't even think of

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Speaker 6: those things, and much less as I say that the

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Speaker 6: terrible morality of being involved in that. It's really a

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Speaker 6: double whammyan look, I just think it's it's obviously very fascinating.

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Speaker 6: I mean, you know, readersn't listen of media throughout the

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Speaker 6: world cannot get enough of the Epstein files because they're

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Speaker 6: just extraordinary. Every day something else is turning up, you

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Speaker 6: see another name, and you know, we should also say

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Speaker 6: a lot of people named in the Epstein files are

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Speaker 6: completely innocent of any of this stuff. But you know,

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Speaker 6: because Epstein brought everyone into this whirlpool, into his world.

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Speaker 6: And there's a lot of people named that he've clearly

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Speaker 6: got nothing to do with the nefarious activities that Epstein

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Speaker 6: was involved in, but everyone has been sucked in and

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Speaker 6: it's a huge vortex. It's just revealed this whole sort

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Speaker 6: of nether world, this lord of the rings Land that

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Speaker 6: we never knew existed.

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Speaker 1: And Epstein was the one gathering the information. Right if

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Speaker 1: anyone had a trove of material that he could maybe

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Speaker 1: use to blackmail people or at least use to kind

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Speaker 1: of keep a record of what he'd been up to,

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Speaker 1: it was him.

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Speaker 6: And you wonder what he wanted out of it all?

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Speaker 6: What did he want? I mean, presumably it wasn't sort

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Speaker 6: of sex and girls. It was presumably far more than

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Speaker 6: that power. But what sort of power was he seeking?

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Speaker 6: I mean, he's not with us anymore, But it would

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Speaker 6: be fascinating, wouldn't it, to really try and hear his

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Speaker 6: honest opinion of what he was trying to achieve by

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Speaker 6: this extraordinary network. Someone who's sent literally millions of emails

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Speaker 6: must have spent every second minute of his waking day

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Speaker 6: sending emails to what purpose?

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Speaker 1: Cameron Stewart is the Australian's Chief International Correspondent, Thanks Cam Pleasure.

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Speaker 1: You can read Cameron's analysis, plus all our reporting on

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Speaker 1: this fast moving story right now at the Australian dot

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Speaker 1: com dot a you