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Speaker 1: From the newsroom and years.

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Speaker 2: To come Tody.

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Speaker 3: Today. There, I'm Andrew Buffalo.

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Speaker 4: I just want to kick off this episode with a

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Speaker 4: message of support to all of our listeners in Queensland

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Speaker 4: and New South Wales who are bracing for the impact

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Speaker 4: of Cyclone Alfred. We are thinking of you, we are

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Speaker 4: sending you out love and just hoping that you get

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Speaker 4: through this thing unscathed. We've got comprehensive coverage of the

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Speaker 4: cyclone at news dot com at dot au will bring

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Speaker 4: you all the latest news as it happens. Plenty of

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Speaker 4: other stories online today as well. I've just come back

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Speaker 4: from our daily editorial meeting. There's a fairly grim story

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Speaker 4: about an ossie who's died overseas. We're doing that.

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Speaker 1: Aussie tourist found out in the barley water tank. That's

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Speaker 1: is sounding pretty gruesome.

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Speaker 2: Finally, the body found like naked and you're like wounds

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Speaker 2: all over his body.

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Speaker 3: It's awful, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: That was Charlotte, one of our morning editors there. She

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Speaker 4: spoke about another story that we've got online at news

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Speaker 4: dot com dot Au right now, a much lighter story,

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Speaker 4: thankfully given it to a Friday. It's about a thirty

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Speaker 4: five year old Ozzie woman who lives in a one

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Speaker 4: bedroom apartment, and she hired a cleaner and has been

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Speaker 4: shamed by her friends for doing so. They've accused her

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Speaker 4: of being lazy. Now, this story has ignited a fierce

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Speaker 4: debate in the news dot com dot Au office, so

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Speaker 4: I thought, you know what, let's chat about it. In

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Speaker 4: this episode, we're gonna hear from the woman herself and

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Speaker 4: find out what the reaction.

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Speaker 3: Has been since she shared her story online.

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Speaker 4: Joining me in the studio now is new stock Coom

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Speaker 4: dot Au is Mary Madigan.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 3: It's a lovely studio, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: It's very cozy and I can't breathe.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 4: Cozy means it's small. It is small. It is this

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Speaker 4: tiny little booth that we're in. It has nowhere conditioning.

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Speaker 4: It is right next to a window, so it gets

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Speaker 4: to about forty degrees here even when it's overcast.

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Speaker 3: But I'm glad you're happy to be here.

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Speaker 1: Oh honestly, I'll t go anywhere, all right.

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Speaker 4: So you've got this great story online at news dot

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Speaker 4: com dot you today. It stems from a TikTok posted

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Speaker 4: by a thirty five year old Sidney woman. Let's have

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Speaker 4: a listen.

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Speaker 5: I'm definitely overthinking this, but I hired a cleaner for

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Speaker 5: the first time today.

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Speaker 2: She came, and I.

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Speaker 5: Mean, my apartment looks incredible and smells clean, like I

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Speaker 5: don't know what I was doing before this, but it

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Speaker 5: was certainly not clean enough. But I feel so guilty.

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Speaker 5: I live alone, I have a one bedroom apartment and

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Speaker 5: I told a friend that I had a cleaner coming

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Speaker 5: and she was.

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Speaker 4: Like, lazy March.

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Speaker 5: Is that lazy or is it smart outsourcing? I feel

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Speaker 5: fucking fantastic right now. I took my dog for a walk,

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Speaker 5: I did a meeting at a cafe, I had a coffee.

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Speaker 5: I came back and my apartment is perfect.

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Speaker 3: But should I feel guilty? Mary?

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Speaker 4: When you saw this video on TikTok, what made you

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Speaker 4: think this is going to make a great article Because.

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Speaker 1: People love to judge people on how they spend money.

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Speaker 3: Do they really don't act shocked? Okay?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, as if you don't judge people and how they

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Speaker 2: spend money, I.

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Speaker 4: Won one hundred percent judge people, but I would never

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Speaker 4: have thought about like this cleaning issue. I know that

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Speaker 4: you spoke to this woman for news dot com dot A.

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Speaker 4: You you tracked her down, I hunted her.

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Speaker 2: You hunted her without her permission, but she did agree

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Speaker 2: a speak to me.

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Speaker 4: Before we get to what she had to say to you.

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Speaker 4: There were hundreds of comments on this TikTok video. When

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Speaker 4: she posted it, she asked is it smart outsourcing or

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Speaker 4: lazy of her to hire that cleaner? The majority of

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Speaker 4: people said it's smart. One person wrote, if you can

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Speaker 4: afford to pay someone to do it, then it's giving

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Speaker 4: someone else a job. Another wrote, no, different to getting

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Speaker 4: takeaway when you don't want to cook.

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Speaker 3: That's a great point.

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Speaker 4: Another one suggested she fire her friend and tip the cleaner.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because her friend called her lazy. Yeah, so when

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Speaker 2: she told her friend she was getting cleaner, friend was

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Speaker 2: like lazy much yeah, which quite.

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Speaker 3: Mean dick, move right.

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Speaker 4: There were a few negative comments saying that it's lazy,

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Speaker 4: and one person wrote, you should only hire people if

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Speaker 4: you make more money not doing that task, Otherwise you

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Speaker 4: always feel guilty. Firstly, what do you think, Mary, smart

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Speaker 4: outsourcing or lazy?

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Speaker 2: I think it's smart outsourcing, But I'm also an entitled lady,

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Speaker 2: Like I think I'm someone that like I can always

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Speaker 2: justify pampering myself, like I can do the mad and

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Speaker 2: be like I deserve this, Okay, But like I think

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Speaker 2: if you ask like my mother and she would not

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Speaker 2: be happy about this decision.

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Speaker 3: Can we get her number, your mum's number.

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Speaker 4: We'll give her a bus in just to set we

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Speaker 4: need to call Donna. Yeah, so you track down this woman.

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Speaker 4: Her name is Denise.

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Speaker 3: She had some interesting comments to say.

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Speaker 4: To you for your article on news dot com dot

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Speaker 4: Are you about the judgment that she's received and where

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Speaker 4: that comes from?

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Speaker 3: What did she have to say?

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Speaker 2: I think she said which I thought was really great.

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Speaker 2: I think she said I know she said sorry.

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Speaker 1: I did speak to her.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 2: What she said, which I thought was really great, is

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Speaker 2: that often we it's a competition of like are you

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Speaker 2: busy enough?

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Speaker 1: Do? Does your life justify it?

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Speaker 2: And I think she also felt like she's single, she

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Speaker 2: doesn't have kids, she only has a dog to take

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Speaker 2: care of, and she's like she worries people like, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: you have all the time in the world, right, She's like,

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Speaker 2: end of the day, I have a really demanding job,

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Speaker 2: and I'm also at a point of my life where

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Speaker 2: I'm putting everything into my job. Yeah, and so the

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Speaker 2: fact that she got the clean to come and she

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Speaker 2: could go into a meeting at a cafe, took a

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Speaker 2: dog for a walk, and it kind of like brought

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Speaker 2: her time back.

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Speaker 4: That's so funny you say that, because like, I am

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Speaker 4: a single man. I have no kids, but a lot

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Speaker 4: of my friends have children, and I know that I

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Speaker 4: feel the judgment from them sometimes where I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 4: you know, I didn't have time to do that, and

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Speaker 4: they'll be like, why you don't have kids, Like what

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Speaker 4: possibly could be eating up your time? Whereas we have

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Speaker 4: a job, we have two children to look after, we

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Speaker 4: have to run a house, and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

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Speaker 3: You don't know my life.

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Speaker 1: I'm focusing on you.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, I think people don't realize when you're

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Speaker 2: single how much time it takes to focus on yourself.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, I'm busy.

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Speaker 4: She had another interesting comment about the judgment, which had

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Speaker 4: to do with a battle of the sexes.

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Speaker 3: I want to say battle. Yes.

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Speaker 2: Well she was saying, which I thought was a great

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Speaker 2: point I didn't even think of, is that she thinks

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Speaker 2: of a single man, had said like, oh, I've got

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Speaker 2: to clean everybody, Like, oh, it's a bachelor like he

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Speaker 2: can't clean, but because it's a woman, there's a sexist

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Speaker 2: thing of like why can't you take care of your

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Speaker 2: own home.

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Speaker 1: I think it's the.

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Speaker 2: Assumption that women are meant to be good at home duties,

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Speaker 2: so if you've hired someone, you're not like, quote unquote

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Speaker 2: good at them. But it's obviously outdated because now women

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Speaker 2: work as much. Manner is busy. You know, the home

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Speaker 2: is not our only place anymore. But I think that's

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Speaker 2: where it stands.

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Speaker 4: Trum. We've got to go to an ad break in

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Speaker 4: a sec I just want to quickly ask you yes

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Speaker 4: or no question.

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Speaker 3: Do you have a cleaner? Mary Madigan? Yes, okay.

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Speaker 4: I am going to quiz you all about this in

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Speaker 4: just a moment. I'm chatting to news dot com dot

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Speaker 4: us Mary Madigan, who's written an article about a Sydney

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Speaker 4: woman who lives alone in a one bedroom apartment who

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Speaker 4: recently hired a cleaner. We've been discussing if it's smart

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Speaker 4: outsourcing or lazy behavior.

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Speaker 3: Mary.

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Speaker 4: Just before the ad break, I asked you if you

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Speaker 4: have a cleaner. The answer yes, okay, So here's what

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Speaker 4: I want to know.

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Speaker 1: You have a cleaner.

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Speaker 3: By the way, I don't have a cleaner.

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Speaker 1: You sound smart.

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Speaker 4: I have a small apartment though I said apartment. I

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Speaker 4: have a small apartment too, So who do you live with?

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Speaker 4: I live with my boyfriend a one bedroom apartment.

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Speaker 1: One bedroom apartment.

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Speaker 4: Okay, how often are you getting the cleaner? How much

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Speaker 4: are you paying the cleaner?

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Speaker 2: If I can ask, it's once a fortnight and it's

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Speaker 2: one hundred and ten one.

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Speaker 4: Hundred and ten bucks, so about fifty bucks a week essentially.

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Speaker 4: Another question, does the cleaner use all of their own

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Speaker 4: products and equipment?

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Speaker 3: Yes? Okay, see that makes me think it's a worthwhile investment.

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Speaker 1: I I agree. Thank you for supporting me.

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Speaker 4: Because think of all the money you'd have to spend

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Speaker 4: on those cleaning products versus you know, maybe like a

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Speaker 4: good dison or something like that.

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Speaker 3: You're making money here.

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Speaker 1: I'm making money.

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Speaker 2: I also think for me, I mean, yes, that money argument,

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Speaker 2: thank you, I'm going to be using that. But also

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Speaker 2: for me, it's a time thing. So we were spending

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Speaker 2: like every Sunday kind of like doing like the bathroom

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Speaker 2: clean or every and it was always just being that

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Speaker 2: was taking up our week or like we were dreading

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Speaker 2: or we'd be arguing about and now we have that back.

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Speaker 1: So it's like, how much do you value your own time?

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Speaker 1: And I've decided to value my time.

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Speaker 3: What do you do when the cleaner is over? You're

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Speaker 3: never in the house.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, I am like, in my mind,

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Speaker 2: I'm like a gorgeous, jerissy employer. So she comes to

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Speaker 2: like seven point thirty, and I'm always like I just

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Speaker 2: let her in, and I this sounds really bad, but

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Speaker 2: I'm always like, leave the air cone on, babe. And

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Speaker 2: she's always like super thankful, and it makes me feel

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Speaker 2: like like such like a wonderful person. I realize this

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Speaker 2: is so messed up, but I'm like, I'm a good person.

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Speaker 2: I bought her a box of Roses chocolate for Christmas.

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Speaker 2: At this point, I would say we're family, and she's

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Speaker 2: like she loves me. She always thinks I'm like hilarious.

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Speaker 2: Like if I'm like running late and I can't find

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Speaker 2: my fox, like, she thinks that's the funniest thing.

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Speaker 3: So you leave the house.

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Speaker 1: I leave.

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Speaker 2: Can you imagine, like it's a one bedroom, there's no

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Speaker 2: way to like hide. Yeah, I'd have to be like

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Speaker 2: in bed, which is oddly sexual, Like she's in no

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Speaker 2: I leave, I let and then I come back and

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Speaker 2: she lets herself out.

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Speaker 1: Kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: Do you ever feel guilty about having your cleane?

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Speaker 2: I think I feel guilty when she arrives. But at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, do I say I'm supporting

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Speaker 2: a small business?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're you're You're a good person. I know that's

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Speaker 3: what you want to hear from me. You're a good person.

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Speaker 1: Man, I'm a good person. I'm a good employer. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't. I think I used to feel guilt about it.

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Speaker 2: I will say I do not volunteer the information to

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Speaker 2: people because everyone likes to be like, well, that's why

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Speaker 2: you don't own a home, And I'm like, that's the

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Speaker 2: one hundred dollars is not stopping me for my five

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Speaker 2: million dollar wall clues manchain, No.

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Speaker 3: It's all the other paning that's stopping you from doing it.

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Speaker 2: It's the facials, it's the lat if the dinner's out,

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Speaker 2: I'm like it just yeah, that bothers me because I'm like, well,

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Speaker 2: what do you spend money? I'm like, maybe you smoke cigarettes,

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Speaker 2: maybe you like go to the pub every night.

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Speaker 3: Like exactly.

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Speaker 1: I just think people get to be a bit smug

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Speaker 1: when you say you have a cleaner.

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Speaker 3: It's your money. You get to do what you want

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Speaker 3: with that.

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Speaker 4: Another thing I wanted to ask you, are there certain

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Speaker 4: items in your house that you'd be worried if the

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Speaker 4: cleaner saw, so you hide those items before the cleaner comes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, I'm ashamed of myself.

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Speaker 2: I think it's like I hide, like I had really

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Speaker 2: weird things, like like I always like, you clean for

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Speaker 2: the cleaner as well, by the way, do you really, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you clean for the cleaner because you want them to

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Speaker 2: think you're like a slob. I always, especially at the toilet,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, clean it beforehand.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's a good idea.

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Speaker 1: I don't want how to judge, like judge me.

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Speaker 2: I don't just mean just like flush, I like scrup

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Speaker 2: I always flush, by the way.

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Speaker 1: But you clean for the cleaner.

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Speaker 2: I think it's more like I'll hide, like my boyfriend

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Speaker 2: Science will smoke rollies okay, really exposing him here, and

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Speaker 2: I like hide them from her, like I I don't

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Speaker 2: want her to see that.

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Speaker 1: I don't want her to be around smoke.

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Speaker 3: Okay, what else do you hide?

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Speaker 1: What else do I hide? I mean you hide condoms obviously.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay, nice to hear someone's getting some okay interesting

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Speaker 4: and have you ever like been truly truly ashamed why

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Speaker 4: the clean has walked in and it's been a pig star?

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Speaker 3: Do you apologize to the cleaner.

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Speaker 1: I'm constantly apologizing. I'm also constantly explaining.

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Speaker 2: I'm like sorry, I'm like I don't as I lie

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Speaker 2: to her, Like I'll be like, sorry, I've been like

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Speaker 2: in Melbourne, and then I came back, I'm like, I

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Speaker 2: haven't been in Melbourne. Like I just like tell her

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Speaker 2: story like stories or like once I was just like,

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Speaker 2: it's been a rough week.

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Speaker 1: My dad died last year. She was like what. I

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Speaker 1: was like, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to like say something because our kitchen

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Speaker 2: count was just really you know when like your sink

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Speaker 2: gets really dirty because you leave like tea bags in

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Speaker 2: there and it kind of like becomes a different color.

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Speaker 2: I was in that situation, and instead of being like, hey,

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Speaker 2: I've just been like a slob, I was like, my

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Speaker 2: dad died a year ago.

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Speaker 3: And she's like, well, okay, well that explains everything.

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Speaker 1: I think she just thinks I'm like mentally ill, and

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Speaker 1: it's like that's poor woman.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure that this podcast will help that opinion

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Speaker 4: from your cleaner. Okay, it is certainly an article that

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Speaker 4: has fired up debate. We've had so many comments on

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Speaker 4: news dot com dot a year. It is a cracker

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Speaker 4: Mary Madigan, well done.

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Speaker 1: Would you get a cleaner now?

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Speaker 3: Oh gosh, I wasn't expecting this question.

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Speaker 4: I think if I was going to have a big

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Speaker 4: house party or maybe four times a year, I will

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Speaker 4: get a cleaner in now. I never would have thought

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Speaker 4: of it before because I actually quite enjoy cleaning, especially

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Speaker 4: in the bathroom. I find it so satisfying. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's something I'm willing to do now, especially if it's

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Speaker 4: only like one hundred bucks.

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Speaker 3: That's a bargain.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I also feel like it is quite fun. Like when

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Speaker 2: you're cleaning alone, it's probably not as fun, but I

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Speaker 2: quite like to clean in front of my boyfriend and

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Speaker 2: act like I'm really hard done by Ah.

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Speaker 3: Right, So you're trying to get brandy.

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Speaker 2: You're like a mum on like a Sunday afternoon where

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Speaker 2: she starts scrubbing and telling everyone like but no one

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Speaker 2: ever has contributes and she gave her career.

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Speaker 1: For the family. That's when I like to clean.

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Speaker 4: I've got such a good mental image of you now,

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Speaker 4: Mary Madigan, thanks for coming on from the Newsroom.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having me bug you.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for listening to today's episode. I chat to

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Speaker 4: you again on Monday.

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Speaker 2: Follow us, subscribe to from the Newsroom wherever you get

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Speaker 2: your podcasts.