1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,170 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,599 Sean Aylmer: It's a very interesting time to be a miner right 3 00:00:09,599 --> 00:00:13,289 Sean Aylmer: now. Iron ore miners, BHP and Rio Tinto are making 4 00:00:13,289 --> 00:00:15,690 Sean Aylmer: plenty of money at the moment. More so than coal 5 00:00:15,690 --> 00:00:18,930 Sean Aylmer: miners, Yancoal, Whitehaven, those guys, but at the same time, 6 00:00:18,930 --> 00:00:22,680 Sean Aylmer: there's more focus than ever on ESG, Environmental, Social, and 7 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,800 Sean Aylmer: Governance issues. I wanted to look today at the environmental 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,800 Sean Aylmer: impact of mining in this country. With the green supporting 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,490 Sean Aylmer: labor's climate change legislation, there's now some certainty for business 10 00:00:32,490 --> 00:00:34,859 Sean Aylmer: in terms of what needs to be achieved in coming 11 00:00:34,859 --> 00:00:38,280 Sean Aylmer: years. And increasingly it'll be technology that has the answers. 12 00:00:38,670 --> 00:00:42,000 Sean Aylmer: Dr. Andrew job is the founder and CEO of mining 13 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,208 Sean Aylmer: tech company, Plotlogic. Andrew, welcome to Fear and Greed. 14 00:00:45,839 --> 00:00:47,790 Andrew Job: Great to be here. Nice to talk with you, Sean. 15 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,369 Sean Aylmer: What does Plotlogic do, exactly? 16 00:00:51,929 --> 00:00:55,410 Andrew Job: What we do is we use new technology to make 17 00:00:55,410 --> 00:00:58,709 Andrew Job: mines much more sustainable and efficient than they would otherwise 18 00:00:58,710 --> 00:01:04,290 Andrew Job: be. And essentially we've built this proprietary technology that started 19 00:01:04,410 --> 00:01:08,430 Andrew Job: from some research that we did, University of Queensland, and 20 00:01:08,849 --> 00:01:10,889 Andrew Job: a sensor system that allows us to go to the 21 00:01:10,889 --> 00:01:14,458 Andrew Job: mine site, deploy these sensors at scale across the mining 22 00:01:14,459 --> 00:01:18,899 Andrew Job: operation, scan all the rocks in essentially real timing and 23 00:01:18,900 --> 00:01:22,800 Andrew Job: have unprecedented level knowledge of all the different rock properties 24 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:24,899 Andrew Job: that exist on the mine. And once you're armed with 25 00:01:24,900 --> 00:01:28,709 Andrew Job: that information, you can drive massive improvements in how you 26 00:01:28,709 --> 00:01:32,340 Andrew Job: minimize the amount of waste that the mine produces. Minimizes 27 00:01:32,340 --> 00:01:34,620 Andrew Job: the energy consumption for the output of the mine, and 28 00:01:34,620 --> 00:01:37,590 Andrew Job: also results in more ore coming out at the end 29 00:01:37,590 --> 00:01:41,400 Andrew Job: of that process. That's essentially what we do in a 30 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,250 Andrew Job: nutshell. And it's something we've been developing for quite a 31 00:01:44,250 --> 00:01:47,520 Andrew Job: few years, and now at a point of doing commercial 32 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:49,830 Andrew Job: working into the industry and delivering real impact. 33 00:01:50,310 --> 00:01:54,180 Sean Aylmer: OK. So, I mean, it's kind of like the ultimate geologist tool, 34 00:01:54,240 --> 00:02:00,540 Sean Aylmer: just about. You're using technology to better identify... is it 35 00:02:00,540 --> 00:02:03,090 Sean Aylmer: metals and minerals and ore? Is that what you're doing, 36 00:02:03,210 --> 00:02:04,110 Sean Aylmer: or is it other things? 37 00:02:04,650 --> 00:02:07,830 Andrew Job: Yeah, correct. Once you go into mining operations, so the 38 00:02:07,830 --> 00:02:11,190 Andrew Job: mining industry ultimately is broken into two parts. There's the 39 00:02:11,190 --> 00:02:15,690 Andrew Job: exploration and discovery phase, which is where companies come along 40 00:02:15,690 --> 00:02:18,630 Andrew Job: and they try to find new resources that haven't been 41 00:02:18,630 --> 00:02:21,660 Andrew Job: touched before and then start new mines and from discovery 42 00:02:21,660 --> 00:02:25,620 Andrew Job: to mining operations, that process takes about 16 years. So a really long 43 00:02:25,620 --> 00:02:29,160 Andrew Job: lead time to deliver new ore into the industry, or 44 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:33,090 Andrew Job: a new result. And metals to society in order to 45 00:02:33,090 --> 00:02:36,958 Andrew Job: do new things like develop clean technology or green batteries, 46 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,749 Andrew Job: et cetera. And where we come in is really focused 47 00:02:39,750 --> 00:02:43,830 Andrew Job: on the operations side of the business where mining has 48 00:02:43,830 --> 00:02:47,130 Andrew Job: already commenced, but there needs to be a significant uplift 49 00:02:47,130 --> 00:02:50,280 Andrew Job: in the way that mining operation occurs to make it 50 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,239 Andrew Job: much more efficient and much more sustainable, reducing carbon footprints, 51 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:58,619 Andrew Job: reducing waste outputs, but also generally adding more ore, or 52 00:02:59,788 --> 00:03:03,119 Andrew Job: more result in metals. And so what traditionally would happen 53 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,940 Andrew Job: is a mine site would employ a lot of geologists. 54 00:03:06,300 --> 00:03:08,340 Andrew Job: They go into the mine every day. They look at 55 00:03:08,340 --> 00:03:11,519 Andrew Job: all the rocks as best they possibly can. And geologists 56 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:13,799 Andrew Job: are very well trained, huge amount of expertise in the 57 00:03:13,799 --> 00:03:17,909 Andrew Job: geology domain in Australia and globally. But really only able 58 00:03:17,910 --> 00:03:21,510 Andrew Job: to touch a very small proportion of the material that's 59 00:03:21,510 --> 00:03:24,240 Andrew Job: going through the mine to then provide that level of 60 00:03:24,630 --> 00:03:27,599 Andrew Job: oversight. And we've essentially built a way that enhances that 61 00:03:27,599 --> 00:03:32,370 Andrew Job: geology process, allows a geologist remotely say from Brisbane or 62 00:03:32,429 --> 00:03:35,669 Andrew Job: Perth or wherever they may be based, to get a 63 00:03:35,670 --> 00:03:38,369 Andrew Job: feed of information that they can then use to make sure 64 00:03:38,370 --> 00:03:40,380 Andrew Job: that mines running at optimal performance. 65 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,849 Sean Aylmer: I'd imagine, particularly given the push to not open new 66 00:03:44,849 --> 00:03:50,400 Sean Aylmer: fossil fuel mines, particularly coal, what you are talking about could expand 67 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,229 Sean Aylmer: the life of some of the big coal mines that 68 00:03:52,230 --> 00:03:56,070 Sean Aylmer: we already have, as we transition to renewables, which we 69 00:03:56,070 --> 00:03:58,980 Sean Aylmer: all agree is inevitable. But still what you're talking about 70 00:03:59,250 --> 00:04:01,440 Sean Aylmer: potentially solves part of that problem. 71 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,849 Andrew Job: Absolutely. So one of the big challenges that the industry 72 00:04:05,849 --> 00:04:08,910 Andrew Job: has faced for a very long period of time is 73 00:04:08,910 --> 00:04:14,339 Andrew Job: both that actuality of bringing new mines online. So it 74 00:04:14,340 --> 00:04:17,760 Andrew Job: takes approximately 16 years to take a new mine from 75 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,849 Andrew Job: a resource that's been discovered into something that's operational. And 76 00:04:20,849 --> 00:04:25,169 Andrew Job: those times are actually increasing, and rightly so. There's ever 77 00:04:25,170 --> 00:04:30,089 Andrew Job: more increasing ESG, environment, social, government responsibilities, put on the mine. So the 78 00:04:30,089 --> 00:04:34,050 Andrew Job: lead times are actually expanding to bring on new mines. 79 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,339 Andrew Job: There's still this massive demand gap as we transition into 80 00:04:38,339 --> 00:04:41,190 Andrew Job: a clean economy. And the way that we can actually 81 00:04:41,190 --> 00:04:44,549 Andrew Job: enable that transition to occur more quickly is by taking 82 00:04:44,549 --> 00:04:47,909 Andrew Job: the mines and essentially producing more output with less waste and 83 00:04:47,910 --> 00:04:51,450 Andrew Job: less input. And so attacking mines that actually are operating 84 00:04:51,450 --> 00:04:55,860 Andrew Job: now and unlocking new reserves that would've otherwise been considered 85 00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:00,328 Andrew Job: uneconomic allows new capacity to go into the system and 86 00:05:00,330 --> 00:05:02,579 Andrew Job: for the existing mines, it also allows them to be 87 00:05:02,790 --> 00:05:06,360 Andrew Job: much more efficient and reduce their environmental footprint along the 88 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:10,001 Andrew Job: way. Which of course, has a complementary benefit or (inaudible) 89 00:05:10,001 --> 00:05:12,990 Andrew Job: stewardship of those companies and making them more sustainable in the 90 00:05:12,990 --> 00:05:13,380 Andrew Job: long run. 91 00:05:13,980 --> 00:05:16,140 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me Andrew, we'll be back in a minute. 92 00:05:22,469 --> 00:05:24,990 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Andrew Job, founder and CEO 93 00:05:24,990 --> 00:05:28,560 Sean Aylmer: of mining tech company Plotlogic. Now, part of my ignorance 94 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,460 Sean Aylmer: here, Andrew, 20 or 30 years ago, mining must have been very 95 00:05:32,460 --> 00:05:35,549 Sean Aylmer: different to what it is today. Technology has affected all 96 00:05:35,550 --> 00:05:38,070 Sean Aylmer: of us, including the mining industry and what we're talking 97 00:05:38,070 --> 00:05:40,469 Sean Aylmer: about, that is a demonstration of it. What happens in 98 00:05:40,469 --> 00:05:43,710 Sean Aylmer: the next 10 or 20 years? Will there continue to 99 00:05:43,710 --> 00:05:47,669 Sean Aylmer: be these great developments which allow us to get stuff 100 00:05:47,670 --> 00:05:50,400 Sean Aylmer: out of the ground, hopefully with a lower carbon footprint, 101 00:05:50,970 --> 00:05:51,929 Sean Aylmer: much more efficiently? 102 00:05:52,589 --> 00:05:55,799 Andrew Job: I think so. Yes. I mean, ultimately I started in 103 00:05:55,799 --> 00:05:59,459 Andrew Job: the industry over 20 years ago and the fundamental processes 104 00:05:59,459 --> 00:06:02,760 Andrew Job: that are driving the mining industry, haven't actually changed that 105 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,970 Andrew Job: substantially. I think there has been some pockets of excellence 106 00:06:05,970 --> 00:06:09,930 Andrew Job: in the mining industry where new technology's been broadly adopted, 107 00:06:10,290 --> 00:06:14,730 Andrew Job: but the technological changes occurred in almost all other verticals, 108 00:06:14,940 --> 00:06:18,570 Andrew Job: hasn't seen that holistic changes to the fundamental shift in 109 00:06:18,570 --> 00:06:21,719 Andrew Job: how an industry operates in mining, yet. I expect in 110 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,690 Andrew Job: the next 10 years though, that change will absolutely go 111 00:06:24,690 --> 00:06:27,870 Andrew Job: through the system. And one of the ways actually that 112 00:06:27,870 --> 00:06:30,359 Andrew Job: change occurs is through what we call precision mining. And 113 00:06:30,630 --> 00:06:34,889 Andrew Job: ultimately where we come in is to enable through new 114 00:06:34,889 --> 00:06:39,479 Andrew Job: technology, artificially intelligence and ways of handling large trenches of 115 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:44,639 Andrew Job: data really quickly. We enable those really smart, sophisticated decisions 116 00:06:44,639 --> 00:06:47,099 Andrew Job: to be made literally on a minute by minute basis 117 00:06:47,099 --> 00:06:50,610 Andrew Job: on a mining operation. And that then unlocks future potential 118 00:06:50,610 --> 00:06:53,670 Andrew Job: in terms of allowing mines to be operated fully remotely. 119 00:06:53,670 --> 00:06:57,900 Andrew Job: So there's less transit or FIFA workers, all those sorts 120 00:06:57,900 --> 00:07:00,570 Andrew Job: of things, as well as all the other ancillary benefits 121 00:07:00,570 --> 00:07:02,969 Andrew Job: of when you've got very precise control over the entire 122 00:07:02,970 --> 00:07:06,240 Andrew Job: system, you can start automating at a much faster pace 123 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:07,979 Andrew Job: than you would've otherwise been able to do. 124 00:07:08,099 --> 00:07:09,839 Sean Aylmer: Now, I mean, given that your clients are people like 125 00:07:09,839 --> 00:07:13,830 Sean Aylmer: BHP, Anglo American, South 32, Glencore, obviously there's a lot 126 00:07:13,830 --> 00:07:16,290 Sean Aylmer: of major commodities that you can do this for. Iron 127 00:07:16,290 --> 00:07:19,680 Sean Aylmer: ore being an example, obviously. I presume Plotlogic works for 128 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,900 Sean Aylmer: iron ore. Is it across the spectrum? I mean, can 129 00:07:21,900 --> 00:07:25,439 Sean Aylmer: you go to Newcrest in central New South Wales and say, " 130 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,420 Sean Aylmer: Hey, I know you passed peak production, but we reckon 131 00:07:27,420 --> 00:07:30,750 Sean Aylmer: we can help you out finding gold. More gold in 132 00:07:30,750 --> 00:07:31,290 Sean Aylmer: the hills?" 133 00:07:31,590 --> 00:07:36,630 Andrew Job: Yes. We work in essentially all types of mineral deposits. 134 00:07:36,630 --> 00:07:40,110 Andrew Job: And one of the reasons that this company evolved the 135 00:07:40,110 --> 00:07:42,660 Andrew Job: way it did was because I actually came from an 136 00:07:42,660 --> 00:07:46,559 Andrew Job: industry perspective. So I spent 20 odd years in the mining industry before starting 137 00:07:46,559 --> 00:07:50,160 Andrew Job: this company and building out this technology and really came 138 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,740 Andrew Job: at this from a use case perspective and looking at 139 00:07:53,070 --> 00:07:56,820 Andrew Job: how we can actually influence not just one sector like 140 00:07:57,090 --> 00:08:00,210 Andrew Job: iron ore, but how we could influence all relevant mining 141 00:08:00,210 --> 00:08:03,780 Andrew Job: and mineral sectors. So we actually have live projects in 142 00:08:03,780 --> 00:08:08,940 Andrew Job: Manganese, in Tungston. We are doing work into nickel, into 143 00:08:08,970 --> 00:08:12,390 Andrew Job: lithium, copper gold is actually quite massive for us. So 144 00:08:12,930 --> 00:08:17,518 Andrew Job: it applies around central, New South Wales and in the 145 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,890 Andrew Job: gold fields are some of our clients as well. So 146 00:08:19,980 --> 00:08:24,420 Andrew Job: the technology has broad application across the entire industry, not 147 00:08:24,420 --> 00:08:25,050 Andrew Job: just iron ore. 148 00:08:25,260 --> 00:08:28,470 Sean Aylmer: So most of these people doing it, these people, these 149 00:08:28,470 --> 00:08:32,130 Sean Aylmer: companies, the BHP, the Anglo Americans, Glencore, et cetera, for them, 150 00:08:32,130 --> 00:08:36,870 Sean Aylmer: is it about becoming more efficient? Is it about finding 151 00:08:37,650 --> 00:08:42,179 Sean Aylmer: more dependable ores or seams? Or is it about the 152 00:08:42,210 --> 00:08:44,218 Sean Aylmer: need to become greener? 153 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,790 Andrew Job: I actually think it's all of the above. If I look 154 00:08:47,790 --> 00:08:51,088 Andrew Job: at this from the perspective of a mining company CEO, the 155 00:08:51,660 --> 00:08:55,649 Andrew Job: ESG challenges are rightly front and center of the decisions 156 00:08:55,650 --> 00:08:58,499 Andrew Job: that they are currently making and should be making into 157 00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:01,708 Andrew Job: the future. So everything needs to be layered with that 158 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,309 Andrew Job: ESG perspective. But on top of that, we give the 159 00:09:05,309 --> 00:09:09,150 Andrew Job: double benefit of actually increasing the project valuation and increasing 160 00:09:09,150 --> 00:09:12,120 Andrew Job: profitability of those operations as well, which of course is 161 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,270 Andrew Job: the other key lead that all CEOs are very highly 162 00:09:15,270 --> 00:09:18,389 Andrew Job: tuned to maximizing. So we deal with a real pain 163 00:09:18,389 --> 00:09:21,718 Andrew Job: point, which is how do we actually get the most 164 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,920 Andrew Job: output and minimize the input of that mining business. And 165 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,980 Andrew Job: the benefits of that of course are higher profitability and 166 00:09:28,980 --> 00:09:32,280 Andrew Job: more sustainability. So we're dealing with an immediate opportunity and 167 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,879 Andrew Job: immediate pain point that has double benefits as we deploy 168 00:09:35,879 --> 00:09:36,719 Andrew Job: across mining businesses. 169 00:09:37,229 --> 00:09:39,900 Sean Aylmer: Andrew, you look across the whole sector, where do you 170 00:09:39,900 --> 00:09:41,910 Sean Aylmer: think it'll be in 10 or 20 years? Do you think we 171 00:09:41,910 --> 00:09:45,480 Sean Aylmer: will have metallurgical thermal coal companies? Do you think we 172 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,660 Sean Aylmer: will be doing as much oil and gas as we 173 00:09:48,660 --> 00:09:49,890 Sean Aylmer: are doing now? What do you think? 174 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:55,470 Andrew Job: Very confident, the mega trend is that we are going away from fossil fuels, both 175 00:09:55,470 --> 00:09:59,309 Andrew Job: in terms of oil and gas and thermal coal. Metallurgical 176 00:09:59,309 --> 00:10:03,208 Andrew Job: Coal is something that there's not an obvious substitute right 177 00:10:03,210 --> 00:10:05,189 Andrew Job: now. There's lots of work being done. And I think 178 00:10:05,190 --> 00:10:09,478 Andrew Job: that ultimately it's another technology solution that sometime in the 179 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,410 Andrew Job: next 10, 20, maybe 30 years, that we'll see that come 180 00:10:13,410 --> 00:10:16,439 Andrew Job: to the fore. I think the big challenge for coal 181 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,940 Andrew Job: mining businesses is how do they actually reposition their business 182 00:10:20,940 --> 00:10:24,149 Andrew Job: in a way that actually presents a zero or low 183 00:10:24,150 --> 00:10:26,848 Andrew Job: carbon future? And I think that's a big challenge that 184 00:10:27,030 --> 00:10:29,969 Andrew Job: the industry would need to address if they want to survive beyond 185 00:10:29,969 --> 00:10:32,520 Andrew Job: the next 10 to 20 years. But certainly I think the 186 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,550 Andrew Job: mega trend is well and truly in motion in terms 187 00:10:35,550 --> 00:10:40,410 Andrew Job: of not bringing online new capacity, of the capacity of these online, not 188 00:10:40,410 --> 00:10:43,770 Andrew Job: giving massive extensions. And we've seen that play out in 189 00:10:43,770 --> 00:10:47,580 Andrew Job: Queensland and New South Wales where existing mining operations, thermal 190 00:10:47,580 --> 00:10:50,250 Andrew Job: mines in particular, haven't been granted new extensions and the 191 00:10:50,250 --> 00:10:53,699 Andrew Job: likes. So I'm not seeing that trend changing anytime soon, 192 00:10:53,700 --> 00:10:56,940 Andrew Job: but certainly there will be a drive to make those 193 00:10:56,940 --> 00:10:59,759 Andrew Job: operations in the short term, whether that's 10 years, 20 194 00:10:59,759 --> 00:11:03,210 Andrew Job: years or 30 years, much more efficient and sustainable while 195 00:11:03,210 --> 00:11:06,540 Andrew Job: they are still operating and while we are still transitioning 196 00:11:06,570 --> 00:11:09,750 Andrew Job: into a new economy. And I think that the longer term 197 00:11:09,750 --> 00:11:13,380 Andrew Job: beyond that is really a question of how can these 198 00:11:13,380 --> 00:11:16,708 Andrew Job: sectors position themselves in a way that actually doesn't produce 199 00:11:17,010 --> 00:11:19,830 Andrew Job: carbon into the environment, which is a massive challenge that 200 00:11:19,950 --> 00:11:21,000 Andrew Job: they would have to address. 201 00:11:21,270 --> 00:11:24,329 Sean Aylmer: One final question. Plotlogic, what's the plan, Andrew? 202 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:30,990 Andrew Job: We are super passionate about how we can positively influence 203 00:11:30,990 --> 00:11:35,250 Andrew Job: the mining industry. Help mines become essentially more profitable while 204 00:11:35,250 --> 00:11:39,990 Andrew Job: simultaneously reducing environmental impact. It's a really important piece of 205 00:11:39,990 --> 00:11:43,980 Andrew Job: work that we are doing that is literally transitioning the entire industry 206 00:11:43,980 --> 00:11:48,720 Andrew Job: to be much more technologically advanced, much more sophisticated in 207 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,078 Andrew Job: an unprecedented way that has broad impact, not just for 208 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,829 Andrew Job: the Australian economy, but globally, as well as everybody needs 209 00:11:56,190 --> 00:11:58,139 Andrew Job: the minerals that are being produced from mines. And no 210 00:11:58,139 --> 00:12:00,929 Andrew Job: one wants to see any sort of environmental or legacy 211 00:12:00,929 --> 00:12:03,300 Andrew Job: impact. So it's a really important piece of work that 212 00:12:03,300 --> 00:12:06,630 Andrew Job: we're doing. Growing the company, several years ago was really 213 00:12:06,630 --> 00:12:09,629 Andrew Job: just me and several other people. We're now up to 214 00:12:09,690 --> 00:12:13,860 Andrew Job: approximately 70 people. We've grown out an office into Adelaide, 215 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,909 Andrew Job: into Perth, opened our first office in Brazil, and we're 216 00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:22,710 Andrew Job: continuing on that expansion beyond our current markets and building 217 00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:25,140 Andrew Job: out a global business that can have meaningful impact. 218 00:12:25,620 --> 00:12:27,750 Sean Aylmer: Fantastic. Andrew, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 219 00:12:28,380 --> 00:12:29,400 Andrew Job: Nice talking with you. Thank you. 220 00:12:29,849 --> 00:12:32,249 Sean Aylmer: That was Andrew Job, founder and CEO of mining tech 221 00:12:32,250 --> 00:12:36,179 Sean Aylmer: company, Plotlogic. This is a Fear and Greed daily interview. Join us 222 00:12:36,179 --> 00:12:38,429 Sean Aylmer: every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, 223 00:12:38,429 --> 00:12:42,540 Sean Aylmer: Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Shawn Aylmer, enjoy your day.