Speaker 1: I'll get a team. Welcome to another installing the new project.
Speaker 1: It's Jumbo, It's Craig Anthey, Harper, Joshua and Leonardo. It's
Speaker 1: friend of mine. He's arguably Australia's best ever FBB pro bodybuilder,
Speaker 1: father of two, husband of Liz Man about town. There's
Speaker 1: been a few peaks and troughs in his journey over
Speaker 1: the last few years, and we hit abyak again.
Speaker 2: Hi, mate, mate, Jumbo brain is Jumbo is the evolution
Speaker 2: of you.
Speaker 1: I don't know about.
Speaker 2: Being called smart, but how about the smartest person in
Speaker 2: your in your body? How does that sound? Can you
Speaker 2: take that? Will you accept that?
Speaker 1: Do you know? Sometimes I think I don't really think
Speaker 1: I'm smart. I think I'm good at optimizing what I have.
Speaker 1: I think I'm good at getting the most out of
Speaker 1: what i have to work with. If that's a kind
Speaker 1: of smart, then I'll take it.
Speaker 2: How about you just have about work ethic like an
Speaker 2: almost like a machine. How about that? How about how
Speaker 2: I have that discipline and dedicate and that stuff that's
Speaker 2: like top shelf, your top shelf.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pumping up my tires in the first minute.
Speaker 2: You know, why do we get you everywhere? Mate? You'll
Speaker 2: be buying me dinnercent Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean here's the thing, right, you can't you
Speaker 1: can't choose your IQ, you can't choose your genetics. You
Speaker 1: can't you can't change the hours in a day, blah blah.
Speaker 1: But you can figure out what you're going to do
Speaker 1: with all that stuff, you know. Like, I've coached lots
Speaker 1: of people who I would think inherently have a higher
Speaker 1: IQ than me and probably more natural talent and potential,
Speaker 1: but the other stuff they don't. They just don't have it.
Speaker 1: Some do, like a lot do, but some don't. And
Speaker 1: it's I mean, I've seen the same thing. You might
Speaker 1: have seen it in the gym too. In the gym,
Speaker 1: I've seen it with people with fucking amazing genetics who
Speaker 1: just don't want to get uncomfortable consistently. They love the
Speaker 1: idea of, you know, high performance, but they don't want
Speaker 1: to do the work to create high performance. Same in corporate,
Speaker 1: Same in working with you know, elite athletes in the
Speaker 1: sporting arena. You know, there's what we've got to work
Speaker 1: with and then there's what we do with what we've
Speaker 1: got to work with. They're two different things.
Speaker 2: Right, Massively potential potential scene all the time. It's just
Speaker 2: and it's wasted so much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so much. Yeah. Do you think how much
Speaker 1: of your potential genetically when you were competing? Do you
Speaker 1: reckon you got? If ten out of ten is human
Speaker 1: optimization to the limit, Like you couldn't get any more
Speaker 1: out of you, what do you reckon? You got out
Speaker 1: of you on stage?
Speaker 2: Probably about a six, really six or seven. Yeah. I
Speaker 2: was taking my time enjoying my life, and I thought
Speaker 2: I had a lot longer before it got cut short.
Speaker 2: So I was kind of like, in a way, trying
Speaker 2: to invest in the people that I I love and
Speaker 2: not trying to make it too obsessed, which is sounds
Speaker 2: weird for bodybuilding because it's a really obsessive lifestyle. But
Speaker 2: I was at the same time still trying to enjoy
Speaker 2: what I could. And it don't get me wrong, when
Speaker 2: I needed to be disciplined, I was extremely disciplined. But
Speaker 2: I thought I still had another five or ten years
Speaker 2: within bodybuilding before I had this tumor. That's part of
Speaker 2: the family that cut me cut things short, which is yeah,
Speaker 2: cause a lot of problems ever since from the surgeries.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll open the door, We'll open the meta door
Speaker 1: on that. But like that, I want to just zoom
Speaker 1: out of the micro of that and back to the
Speaker 1: macro of bodybuilding as a sport. So I grew up
Speaker 1: not like well kind of. I mean I was always around.
Speaker 1: I was a bodybuilder, just not a competitive bodybuilder. I
Speaker 1: was just like your weekend warrior, right. I was like you, Yeah,
Speaker 1: your bloke that plays suburban footy? That was I was
Speaker 1: the equivalent of that.
Speaker 2: Would you walk past it? Could you walk past a
Speaker 2: reflection of a window? And no, I can look at yourself.
Speaker 1: No, I was too. I was fucking enamored with myself.
Speaker 1: I thought I was shit hot. I wasn't, but I
Speaker 1: thought I was. Now that's not true. I actually thought
Speaker 1: I was terrible. But but I really tried to you.
Speaker 2: Wanted to make sure you were a bit better than before,
Speaker 2: make sure every day was better than yesterday.
Speaker 1: I still angle on the left side if I'm getting
Speaker 1: a photo taken.
Speaker 2: And I saw a photo of you in a suit yesterday?
Speaker 1: Did you that?
Speaker 2: I was amazed?
Speaker 1: Oh that's right, that's I showed you that. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was that one time when I wore a suit.
Speaker 1: But like, like, you're quite a deep philosophical person and
Speaker 1: me too in some ways. But did it ever dawn
Speaker 1: on you how bad it is, potentially bad it is
Speaker 1: for people's self esteem, self worth and all of that
Speaker 1: when especially, you know, these days we talk about you know,
Speaker 1: you're much more than a body, and you know, it's
Speaker 1: like people's you know, body dysmorphea and body image and
Speaker 1: all the judgment and stuff that happens with how people look,
Speaker 1: and it shouldn't be like that. And then literally there's
Speaker 1: a sport where you stand on stage in pretty much
Speaker 1: nothing and you you literally judged, not figuratively, like you're
Speaker 1: literally judged. And if there's ten people on stage, one
Speaker 1: of those people is going to be the worst in
Speaker 1: inverted commas, one's going to be the best in inverted commas.
Speaker 1: It's it's a pretty tough like. It's kind of like mma.
Speaker 1: I love it and hate it. I love the sport,
Speaker 1: but I hate the potential damage that comes with people
Speaker 1: getting punched in the head. And I love bodybuilding, but
Speaker 1: I hate the potential damage which might come to some
Speaker 1: people's self esteem and emotional and mental health with standing
Speaker 1: up on stage in you know, no clothes being judged.
Speaker 1: Do you ever think about that.
Speaker 2: And it's basically body shaming and people pay to do it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's weird when you think of it like that, right.
Speaker 1: Isn't it. It's like where you're going.
Speaker 2: To stand if people did that in the news, the news.
Speaker 1: We're totally you know, you shouldn't judge anyone on how
Speaker 1: they look. Oh, there's a sport that does that, Like
Speaker 1: it's it's a global sport.
Speaker 2: And it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger, isn't it.
Speaker 1: What do you think? I mean, like the evolution of
Speaker 1: bodybuilding since I kind of first plugged in in the
Speaker 1: seventies and eighties and watching Arnold and all the old
Speaker 1: you know, Lou Farino and Robbie Robinson and Surge and
Speaker 1: new Bray and Serge Olimpia, Serge Olivia and all those
Speaker 1: old timers who were just fucking old guys on Diana
Speaker 1: Boll and Decker just getting on stage with their twenty
Speaker 1: times right, grobing it to them ten to twelve. Who
Speaker 1: was prescribing it?
Speaker 2: The doctors were there's no problems.
Speaker 1: That's that's hilarious. I don't know if that was a
Speaker 1: healthier version, it kind of seems more wholesome. I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe that's just like illusion. But these days bodybuilding in
Speaker 1: inverted commas, it's it's a myriad of things. You know,
Speaker 1: it's bikinis, it's figures, it's body shaping, it's the what's
Speaker 1: the guy's version like that bosique?
Speaker 2: Yeah, with a broad shorts physique. That's evolved and now
Speaker 2: it's there massive. It used to look like a board,
Speaker 2: like a beach body. Now it's huge, massive, broad shots,
Speaker 2: deltz abs huge. You would not look like that just
Speaker 2: growing up and being a farm boy with players and
Speaker 2: thrown hay bales out you did. You would not walk
Speaker 2: down the beach looking like that. No way.
Speaker 1: And it seems like there are more and more people
Speaker 1: like I thought. I thought, you know, there was a
Speaker 1: time maybe twenty years where it was just going to
Speaker 1: kind of fall away, because it did kind of stumble
Speaker 1: for a while there. It felt like bodybuilding was, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, getting less attention and less popularity. But
Speaker 1: it seems like there's over the last decade really that's
Speaker 1: turned around and there's a massive uptake and up surge
Speaker 1: in you know, people wanting to get on stage and
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 2: I think everything's into wine. So of course people want
Speaker 2: to look a bit healthier or want maybe to lose
Speaker 2: some body fat, so they're right that in their Google
Speaker 2: and then they'll filter into their Instagram or their Facebook,
Speaker 2: and then that'll pop up in their algorithm and social
Speaker 2: media feed will pop up, and then they might click
Speaker 2: on it and that'll pop up more and and that'll
Speaker 2: just start to embed into the subconscious and then that'll
Speaker 2: pop up more and there you go. And it's and
Speaker 2: especially within the kids, it's it's mammoth. So yeah, it's
Speaker 2: not it's not good. It's taken over so much.
Speaker 1: Sorry. It is interesting because at the same time, got
Speaker 1: a whole lot of people going, don't judge us on
Speaker 1: how we look, and then at the same time a
Speaker 1: bunch of people going, please judge, judge me, like, because
Speaker 1: that's what body. You know, you get on stage and
Speaker 1: literally the judge's job is to judge your body.
Speaker 2: It's a difficult experience to judge other people. Yes, because
Speaker 2: of course you want.
Speaker 1: Did you feel a bit conflicted when you were doing.
Speaker 2: That, Yeah, because you want more, more time, and you
Speaker 2: want more. You want to place everyone as evenly as
Speaker 2: possible in the right spot, So you want to make
Speaker 2: sure you have enough time to do that correctly as well,
Speaker 2: and it's yeah, it's definitely there's definitely a challenge to
Speaker 2: do that because of course, like they say in bodybuilding,
Speaker 2: apples and oranges, you know, you what you prefer is
Speaker 2: different than what I might prefer, as someone's shoulders to
Speaker 2: look a particular way someone else like a particular way.
Speaker 2: So it's that's also the confusing part within bodybuilding. You're
Speaker 2: getting ahead of if you, for example, if you get
Speaker 2: got ahead of six judges in Victoria, you might get
Speaker 2: a of six different judges in Queensland and they might
Speaker 2: have different opinions with what a body should look like.
Speaker 2: So that's also that's another element of difference, even though
Speaker 2: there's some guidelines and then so that's I just tell
Speaker 2: people that just be your best and make yourself happy
Speaker 2: with what you look like.
Speaker 1: And I guess one of the differences between bodybuilding and
Speaker 1: a lot of other I mean, some people would argue
Speaker 1: that it's a sport or a hobby or a pastime
Speaker 1: or but let's go with sport, is that it's not
Speaker 1: an objective measurement. It's like a subjective interpretation. It's like
Speaker 1: literally a judge sitting in a chair ten feet off
Speaker 1: stage looking at a body and then scoring that through
Speaker 1: their eyes and there, like like you said, through their perception,
Speaker 1: and then the person next to them. You know, there
Speaker 1: might be ten let's say ladies on stage, and one
Speaker 1: judge places a particular lady first, and the guy girl
Speaker 1: next door places them forth, and they're looking at the
Speaker 1: same thing on the same day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, spot on exactly. Well, they imagine this. They all
Speaker 2: have they looking image if they're all clions, but one
Speaker 2: has brown hair and one has blonde hair, and that's
Speaker 2: their preference, so that's where they place. But then they
Speaker 2: go home not placing well and feel disappointed and upset
Speaker 2: that they've given up so much for so long and
Speaker 2: dieted and sacrificed, and then it didn't place where they
Speaker 2: wanted to. And then they have then this bad self
Speaker 2: image because they thought, oh, you know, didn't get what
Speaker 2: I wanted. So, yes, can have some really high highs
Speaker 2: this sport, and if you want to call it a
Speaker 2: sport into really low lows. Definitely.
Speaker 1: I told you before we started. I just had a
Speaker 1: super long chat with Trevor Hendy and we were talking
Speaker 1: about this. The former world champion and Australian Champion, iron.
Speaker 2: Man and Amazing Athlete.
Speaker 1: Order of Australia dude, and all that. Like, yeah, this
Speaker 1: challenge of being really good at something and receiving praise
Speaker 1: and accolades and recogniz and you know, all of this
Speaker 1: positivity through you know, in your case perhaps looking like
Speaker 1: a freaking being Australia's best bodybuilder or in his case
Speaker 1: being the best you know, surf life saver in the
Speaker 1: world or iron man in the world, and then trying
Speaker 1: to in the middle of that be normal whatever that means,
Speaker 1: like to be grounded, to not to not lose yourself,
Speaker 1: to not lose your identity in all of the emotion
Speaker 1: and bullshit and ego that can come with that stuff.
Speaker 1: That's that's like got to be a challenge.
Speaker 2: I guess yeah. I think being married to my wife's
Speaker 2: family's tongan is very easy. When you're considered a monster
Speaker 2: and then you're among all these big islanders is very
Speaker 2: humbly really, that was very easy for me.
Speaker 1: Are they all big units?
Speaker 2: There's there's a big units, there's a big units. But
Speaker 2: I do get what you mean in reference to that,
Speaker 2: for sure. So yeah, it's but you've always been I mean,
Speaker 2: that was the one thing initially I think you need
Speaker 2: is a great team around you, and that's You've been
Speaker 2: a real pivotal part of that hups. So you know,
Speaker 2: having people that know that, because man, you can get
Speaker 2: so wrapped up in just the body and make it
Speaker 2: just be everything and it's not. It's like, there's just
Speaker 2: so much more to life than that. And you try,
Speaker 2: you have a conversation with people were just only talking
Speaker 2: about bodybuilding. It's such a difficult. You just want to
Speaker 2: escape that conversation. You know, it's so much more to life.
Speaker 1: Do you know what? To me is a little bit sad.
Speaker 1: And this is very specific and probably ninety a percent
Speaker 1: of our audience might not relate to this, so I
Speaker 1: apologize to you. But and you know this, and I
Speaker 1: know this, like especially dudes, old dudes who have been
Speaker 1: bodybuilding forever and they still get their entire sense of
Speaker 1: self from their body. And they're like now in their
Speaker 1: fifties and maybe beyond. And I'm like, you know, and
Speaker 1: it's good to be in shape at fifty or sixty
Speaker 1: or beyond, of course, but you know, they're still doing
Speaker 1: heaps of gear, they're still red in the face, they're
Speaker 1: still fucking wearing the tight T shirts at the shows,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, come on, bro, you just there's
Speaker 1: more to you than that. There's more to life than that,
Speaker 1: you know, And that sounds judging and I don't mean
Speaker 1: it too, because I was fucking doing the exact same
Speaker 1: thing for you know. Thankfully I got over that when
Speaker 1: I was reasonably young. But yeah, it's it happens, don't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, it's an interesting field mate. You talk
Speaker 2: kill day about that, all right.
Speaker 1: So for people who don't don't know you, I just
Speaker 1: want to tell just a quick because the bodybuilding is
Speaker 1: not the story at the moment. I just want to
Speaker 1: see how you're traveling. So you were Australia's premiere elite
Speaker 1: pro bodybuilder for quite a while. You won pro shows,
Speaker 1: You competed in the Mister Olympia two or three.
Speaker 2: Times twice, competer twice at the mist.
Speaker 1: Placed in the top ten twice, which is an amazing effort.
Speaker 2: And there's another Arnold Classic is the other one major
Speaker 2: one with Arnold Swartznigger runs that was kind of competing
Speaker 2: with the with the Olympia. I got third in that once,
Speaker 2: which was that was big highlight my debut. That was
Speaker 2: one of my own career highlights.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, very thankful you won? Did you win?
Speaker 1: Did you win? Four? Are you won? Four? Yeah?
Speaker 2: One?
Speaker 1: Four?
Speaker 2: Sorry something POPI up there?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: One four?
Speaker 1: I did not know that.
Speaker 2: That is amazing. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Is any other Is any other Australian one or pro shows?
Speaker 2: No? No, I look at you blush. You make me blush.
Speaker 1: Here we go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, now now you're pumping my ties up. Here we go.
Speaker 1: So tell everybody what happened, and just not I mean
Speaker 1: as short as you want and just because I want to.
Speaker 1: One of the things I like to do on the
Speaker 1: show is talk to people when life's going great, but
Speaker 1: also when life's not going great, because the you know,
Speaker 1: for quite a while there everything was going amazing for
Speaker 1: you and then the metaphoric shit hit the fan. And
Speaker 1: so today is really just checking in to see where
Speaker 1: you're at and to let people know where you're up to.
Speaker 1: I get asked a lot about you. Do you see Josh?
Speaker 1: Do you see Josh? What's Josh up to? Is he training?
Speaker 1: Is he going to compete? I get asked a lot
Speaker 1: because people know where friends, So give people the snapshot
Speaker 1: of what happened. If you would.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, where I'd be very quiet on social media,
Speaker 2: I was very active on that and I'd love to
Speaker 2: give and try and encourage. And then what I guess,
Speaker 2: feeling like you're not living in alignment with you are
Speaker 2: as a person, it's very hard to give. And that's
Speaker 2: something I've had to kind of wrap my head around
Speaker 2: recent more reth especially more recently. But I've one thing
Speaker 2: I really I don't tell a lot of people, and
Speaker 2: I'll be open with it now is I've got epilepsy.
Speaker 2: So one thing I had which took me out of
Speaker 2: the last Olympia, which I was qualified for was a
Speaker 2: tumor in the skull, which is a rare place to
Speaker 2: have it, and then I'd had complications after the surgery,
Speaker 2: so it was a non It was a tumor that's
Speaker 2: in my family. And then my brother who wasn't a competitor,
Speaker 2: had one when he was eighteen, and might had one
Speaker 2: and the skull in a more kind of serious spot,
Speaker 2: I guess you could say, and it just, yeah, there
Speaker 2: was complications from the surgery and then it didn't I
Speaker 2: guess it didn't heal correctly or something for whatever reason.
Speaker 2: And then I had a second surgery, and then I
Speaker 2: had more sieges after that, so tried to get back
Speaker 2: and compete, which was ridiculous, but I kind of with
Speaker 2: that pro mindset, I tried to compartmentalize and put that
Speaker 2: pain aside, and then even though the seizes was a possibility,
Speaker 2: I kind of pushed that aside, which was maybe idiotic,
Speaker 2: but I did that because also I had then a
Speaker 2: child with my wife, and the providing instincts were there
Speaker 2: and needed that to happen and keep sponsors happy. That
Speaker 2: didn't go well. COVID hit more seezes happened, more pain,
Speaker 2: a lot more pain, and then trying to just get
Speaker 2: through that and survive really was my thing. Went from
Speaker 2: thriving to surviving from you know, going and being troubled
Speaker 2: around the world and being flown and doing seminars and
Speaker 2: you know, being a guest appearance at places, to then
Speaker 2: just locked in a room trying to just yeah, stay
Speaker 2: alive in a way.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's some bad times. So and then yeah, more recently
Speaker 2: just some yes, more more setious. But I had the
Speaker 2: last time we spoke, I was preparing there was a
Speaker 2: contest called the Master's Olympia, and it was going to
Speaker 2: be you know, Masters is over forties, but it was
Speaker 2: still going to be with bodybuilding, It's something that takes time,
Speaker 2: of course and muscle maturity. So even though being over
Speaker 2: four years, still go and compete, Still go and compete
Speaker 2: in the open the main class. So it was just
Speaker 2: going to be kind of an entry back into competing again.
Speaker 2: And it was just I was still living in pain
Speaker 2: and training and the fear of having a seizure and things.
Speaker 2: So the last time we spoke, it was I was
Speaker 2: going to go over to Dubai, train there and prep
Speaker 2: there and even just trying to see some different specialists
Speaker 2: there in hopes that maybe something could help and then
Speaker 2: compete and then maybe my career would get back on
Speaker 2: track from a professional perspective. And then even before heading
Speaker 2: over there, I got scammed. So I paid for the
Speaker 2: room with Stays this app, and then you know, you
Speaker 2: communicate with the host and everything was set. Everything was
Speaker 2: there the day of lead of leaving, with flying through
Speaker 2: corners and stuff, and then it was like, sorry, can't
Speaker 2: fulfill your obligations. They haven't paid me with the Stays app.
Speaker 2: So then I'm on the phone. You know, bags are packed,
Speaker 2: everything's ready to go and They're like, no, they've paid
Speaker 2: in the money, etc. It was just like this big
Speaker 2: storm and I'm like, well, I'm not flying to the
Speaker 2: Middle East and landing in the heat with nowhere to
Speaker 2: stay and trying to figure something out. And it was
Speaker 2: just and then they wouldn't give me the money back,
Speaker 2: and then it was just this big It was paid
Speaker 2: for months and months at a time. It was just this, Okay,
Speaker 2: this is odd and you know, stressful circumstance. But and
Speaker 2: then I prepped, he stayed here, prepped here for it,
Speaker 2: and it was just bad anyway because of my pain,
Speaker 2: Like as soon as I started really pushing myself, and
Speaker 2: as soon as I got to a certain level of
Speaker 2: strength because we trained quite heavy for the to develop muscle,
Speaker 2: it would just there was only a certain point I
Speaker 2: could go before the pain was just stagonizing. So I
Speaker 2: knew something was up anyway. And then the fear of
Speaker 2: having a seizure was always there, so go ahead.
Speaker 1: And with the pain head pain, like like like super
Speaker 1: duper acute headache, migraine.
Speaker 2: Massive, yeah, massive, I could be like train trying like
Speaker 2: having and I was living off you normally eat food
Speaker 2: much more nourishing. I was living off shape, which is
Speaker 2: not the right way to get ready for a show
Speaker 2: and be in pain. Like I get up trying to
Speaker 2: an hour on the stairs in agony, come home, have
Speaker 2: a shake, ice pack on my head, back in bed,
Speaker 2: kind of get up, have a shake, or try and
Speaker 2: eat some fish or something light or blend something. So
Speaker 2: it's just trying to make it, make it there. And yeah,
Speaker 2: but it was kind of the more that thing was
Speaker 2: kind of the the providing factor was that was part
Speaker 2: of my mindset and which wasn't which isn't a you know,
Speaker 2: the providing factor is great, but the financial driving factor
Speaker 2: isn't a great motivational factor. You know, it's because there's
Speaker 2: many ways to make money, and that's in pain is
Speaker 2: not a great you know, you.
Speaker 1: Weren't getting on stage because you're excited to get on stage,
Speaker 1: exactly age because you thought, this is the way that
Speaker 1: I can potentially make reasonable dough, and I need to
Speaker 1: make dough because I've got a wife and two it's
Speaker 1: in a family and responsibilities, and this is not what
Speaker 1: I want to do, but maybe what I need to
Speaker 1: do to create an outcome that I want.
Speaker 2: That's one hundred percent correct. So it was, and it
Speaker 2: was something that I reflect back and go the best
Speaker 2: way to look at future behavior, look at past behavior.
Speaker 2: This worked in the past, this could work in the future.
Speaker 2: And then you know, that was just a really grueling,
Speaker 2: horrible prep just with suffering and pain and and even
Speaker 2: though I shouldn't. And then you listen to people when
Speaker 2: you talk to me, and they're just, no, it's just
Speaker 2: another test, you know, It's just it's just a test,
Speaker 2: you know, to see how how bad you want it.
Speaker 2: And I'm kind of I don't think this is I
Speaker 2: think this is just yeah, you know, listen to your
Speaker 2: almost listening to yourself in a way. And then almost
Speaker 2: to the point where okay, and then so I'm trying
Speaker 2: to get to go The comp was in this place
Speaker 2: called Clues in Romania, and I'm trying to get my
Speaker 2: wife and the kids to come, and she's like it's
Speaker 2: going to be agony, like trying to travel with this
Speaker 2: be screaming and kid and I'm like, ah, you know
Speaker 2: that I've never competed without my wife being there. So
Speaker 2: I end up I go, Okay, I'm going to book
Speaker 2: the last flight there, and then I'm going to leave
Speaker 2: the first flight after the show, and which is the
Speaker 2: worst thing to do as a body. But when you
Speaker 2: get rid of you got to get there early, you
Speaker 2: got to get rid of the water, you got to
Speaker 2: do all this stuff. So I get there late, make
Speaker 2: this just to just to make this athletes meeting, which
Speaker 2: is compulsory, and I do the contest. As soon as
Speaker 2: I walk out on stage, I just hated it. You
Speaker 2: do this first walkout on your own, not even in
Speaker 2: comparisons in groups, and I just as soon as I
Speaker 2: walked out, I just hated it, Like the lights, everything.
Speaker 2: I just felt like I was going to have a seat,
Speaker 2: like almost like I was going to have a seize her.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, what am I doing? And I was
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to win anyway, Like it was. The
Speaker 2: people that deserve to win, definitely deserve to win. Hats
Speaker 2: off to them, well done for me. Just with my
Speaker 2: I was just like, I'm just not enjoying this. This
Speaker 2: is wrong. Why did I do this for? You know?
Speaker 2: This isn't good. And then I'm not not enjoying it.
Speaker 2: You know, normally I'd enjoy performing and I've done all
Speaker 2: this hard work and instead of training and getting those
Speaker 2: open me in doorphins, it was just you train, it'd
Speaker 2: be pain. You train, it'd be pain. It'd be like
Speaker 2: there was no uplifting aspects of this prep that well
Speaker 2: would even though it was a painful experience. Normally the
Speaker 2: contest preps are there was still an element of enjoyment
Speaker 2: out of it that you could reflect on. There wasn't
Speaker 2: that within this prep at all. And I wasn't going
Speaker 2: to get on social media and be like, you know,
Speaker 2: having another hard day, guys, Hey, guys doing it? Look
Speaker 2: at me, Look how good I am? Well, look how
Speaker 2: much I'm pushing. It wasn't that. It was and exactly
Speaker 2: like I said, I was doing it to try and
Speaker 2: make a living for my kids and stuff. Right, So
Speaker 2: so then I get that they do the call outs,
Speaker 2: and then what happens in bodybuilding, They maybe like twenty competitors, right,
Speaker 2: but only the top ten come back for the night
Speaker 2: show to do a square opposing routine. It's like a
Speaker 2: choreographed routine for entertainment for the crowd. And I knew
Speaker 2: by the way the call outs were that I was
Speaker 2: going to be within that top ten and I was
Speaker 2: hating it. So as soon as they did they were
Speaker 2: doing the callouts, I just walked off the stage like
Speaker 2: I knew I was in the top ten, called my
Speaker 2: wife and they were calling Josh Josh, and my wife's
Speaker 2: home watching it live and she's like get back on stage.
Speaker 2: And I'm like no, and she's like, you need to
Speaker 2: get back on stage now, like will our son's watching it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, I'm done. She's just like you need
Speaker 2: to get on stage, like you need to finish what
Speaker 2: you said. I'm like I'm finished, Like I'm done. That's
Speaker 2: it for me, Like I'm I'm done. I'm in pain,
Speaker 2: I'm in agony, this is this is great. I'm done.
Speaker 2: So I was over the other side of the world
Speaker 2: without doing something for my family, without my family there,
Speaker 2: and it was just like the almost like a place
Speaker 2: like rock bottom when you hit where you hit that feeling.
Speaker 2: And I was just got home to the hotel. I'm
Speaker 2: just sitting there waiting because it was the flight was
Speaker 2: first thing in the morning, so I'm just up all
Speaker 2: night waiting for the flight. As soon as it hits
Speaker 2: time to go to the airport, go to the airport,
Speaker 2: go to check my bags, and they're like, you've missed
Speaker 2: the bag checking. You can't get the flight and I'm like,
Speaker 2: no way, I don't care about my bags. I'm leaving
Speaker 2: my bags. You can't do that. That's illegal to do
Speaker 2: it an airport. I was just like, I ain't okay,
Speaker 2: I'll get the next flight. I'll get the next one.
Speaker 2: You can't because you booked it as one flight. It
Speaker 2: was just like this language barrier as well, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: when's the next one you can get me? It's like
Speaker 2: two days later. I was like, ah, given me. It
Speaker 2: was just one of those deep thinking like what am
Speaker 2: I doing? Like what is going on here? And yeah,
Speaker 2: it was just one of those times where it was
Speaker 2: like need to really figure out what's going on here?
Speaker 2: Like what's why am I still in pain? Why am
Speaker 2: I still having these sages? And then what am I?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: What was I? What was I? What was I thinking
Speaker 2: doing this show?
Speaker 1: It's like Trevor Hendy and I spoke before and we
Speaker 1: were talking. He was talking about not to the same
Speaker 1: level of despair and pain that you were in, but
Speaker 1: he was talking about like he had like he went
Speaker 1: through this period. I don't want to fuck up the
Speaker 1: show in case people haven't heard it, but where he
Speaker 1: was going through some shit and it's like He calls
Speaker 1: it the gift that came out of the darkness, like
Speaker 1: this ship that he was in the middle of, which
Speaker 1: you're kind of still in the middle of. And we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about that in a minute. But you know,
Speaker 1: just dealing with dealing with really hard stuff that you
Speaker 1: can't like. You and I have chatted a little bit lately,
Speaker 1: and I'm not throwing you under the bus, I don't think,
Speaker 1: because we're just being honest and real. And hopefully next
Speaker 1: time we chat it's going to be a lot of
Speaker 1: more great stuff going on. But like right now, there's
Speaker 1: you know, fucking struggle town with you know, trying to
Speaker 1: figure out medically what's going on with you and seizures
Speaker 1: and pain and and you know, but trying to try.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like when people you were saying before,
Speaker 1: people like, oh, you'll be right, it's just tough it
Speaker 1: out and all that, Like that's not wisdom, that's just
Speaker 1: wishful thinking. You know, there is a time when your
Speaker 1: body is going, no, this is not just about being tough.
Speaker 1: This is about if you keep doing this the way
Speaker 1: that you're doing it, you might kill yourself or fuck
Speaker 1: yourself up medically forever and so I'm really glad that
Speaker 1: you paid attention, but you know, it is difficult and
Speaker 1: this I had this chat with Carlie and Brad whose business,
Speaker 1: the Fit Shop, burned to the ground a few weeks
Speaker 1: ago now, and we're doing a fundraiser for them, and
Speaker 1: if you feel like coming along, everybody, just please come
Speaker 1: and support them. It's in a couple of weeks. I
Speaker 1: think it's fuck. I should know it's June second or
Speaker 1: something I shouldn't know off the top of my head.
Speaker 1: But but you know, I mean, I think the beauty
Speaker 1: of having a show like this and a platform like
Speaker 1: this is to get people on who sometimes like you.
Speaker 1: Right now, mate, it's okay to go. Look, I'm not
Speaker 1: being negative when I say things suck right now. You
Speaker 1: know that that's not you being a silk. That's not
Speaker 1: you looking for attention. Because I think there's a real
Speaker 1: propensity when people get on podcasts or shows to kind
Speaker 1: of be all about, oh, yeah, this happened, and this
Speaker 1: was the lesson and this was yeah, that's that's cool,
Speaker 1: and here's seven key insights, and here's five strategies to
Speaker 1: do this and that. But sometimes too, like in the moment,
Speaker 1: like the practical reality is that physically, mentally, emotionally, financially
Speaker 1: sometimes it sucks. And so for you right now, So
Speaker 1: still lots of pain, am I correct? And still like
Speaker 1: a fair bit of unknown in terms of the medical stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and just wanting to be you know,
Speaker 2: wanting to make sure everything's okay for family.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've thought with all that stuff from the past,
Speaker 2: you know, but it's you know how hard it is
Speaker 2: you lift weights. It's it's tough at times when you
Speaker 2: push yourself right, it's pain and it's stuff. And I'm
Speaker 2: like done that for a long time, and i feel like,
Speaker 2: you know, I've suffered and there's pain and I can
Speaker 2: it's it's difficult obviously the pain, but I'm like, I
Speaker 2: get more worried about my wife and the kids and stuff.
Speaker 2: So I'm like, I want to make sure you know
Speaker 2: that they're okay, and I want to make sure that
Speaker 2: everything's okay for them. So I'm like, it's, you know,
Speaker 2: I've always been very I come from, you know, a
Speaker 2: medical family, Like I want to make sure I've always
Speaker 2: been very strict with my medical health and it's and
Speaker 2: if I wasn't, I wouldn't have never found this tumor.
Speaker 2: You know, I was always trying to you know, I did.
Speaker 2: I was, you know, a natural world champion before I
Speaker 2: ever switched over to do this, you know, competing in
Speaker 2: the I F B and the Mysterill Impure and you
Speaker 2: go down that route later on in my career. It
Speaker 2: was like, so it was now, you know, going back
Speaker 2: and doing this to try and get back into competing.
Speaker 2: I made sure everything was you know, okay from that aspect.
Speaker 2: I just didn't realize, you know, when I did dehydrate
Speaker 2: before this contest, that I would feel that way. They
Speaker 2: getting on stage, it was like, okay, this is yeah,
Speaker 2: this isn't where I want to be. And you know,
Speaker 2: if they can figure out what's going on with these sieges,
Speaker 2: it seems like it's it's just strange that they're happening.
Speaker 1: Well, we're going to stay in touch with you. Look.
Speaker 1: The good news every one is this his brain still
Speaker 1: works well enough that he can coach people, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, this was just a ruse to
Speaker 1: not really but I mean the great thing is that
Speaker 1: you know, and I do I do want to give
Speaker 1: Joshah blatant plug because I do want to you know,
Speaker 1: he's one of my friends, and I love him and
Speaker 1: I want to support him. But you know, he's just
Speaker 1: opened the door, not just but he's opened the door
Speaker 1: on doing some work training people. And by the way,
Speaker 1: not necessarily, in fact preferably in some ways, not elite athletes,
Speaker 1: not elite bodybuilders, just people who want to train, people
Speaker 1: who want to get in shape, and people who want
Speaker 1: somebody who really understands training and understands optimizing genetic potential.
Speaker 1: And so if people want to a program written by
Speaker 1: you and some kind of ongoing coaching, mate, where they
Speaker 1: can connect with you. You don't need to live in Melbourne,
Speaker 1: which is where Josh lives. You can live. In fact,
Speaker 1: you can live anywhere in the world. And that's the
Speaker 1: beauty of I guess technology these days is you can
Speaker 1: have a coach, a mentor, or a teacher. Somebody is going
Speaker 1: to help you through that process that doesn't need to
Speaker 1: live around the corner. So anyone can be coached by
Speaker 1: you and mentored by you in that space. Mate, Is
Speaker 1: that right? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Mate, Well that's what I noticed when I was overseas, like,
Speaker 2: this isn't my time to be back competing, It's my
Speaker 2: time to be giving back, And that was my kind
Speaker 2: of epiphany. It was, Okay, I've gone through It's not
Speaker 2: why is this happening to me? It's what do I
Speaker 2: need to learn from this experience? It was okay, well,
Speaker 2: obviously was able to toughen out all these adversities and
Speaker 2: trials and struggles that life's thrown at me, and they
Speaker 2: still keep getting up and still keep putting the work
Speaker 2: and then doing what I need to do. So how
Speaker 2: can I then help others when they're going through something
Speaker 2: that you know, may not be as severe but still
Speaker 2: be quite difficult for their lifestyle, And how can I
Speaker 2: then invest in them and help them? So it was
Speaker 2: that was where I'm now. I just turned to well,
Speaker 2: I've got such a vast amount of knowledge with what
Speaker 2: I was able to accomplish to then pass that on
Speaker 2: to to other people. So if anyone wants to do that,
Speaker 2: it's through my other main Instagram, which is my name
Speaker 2: will be in this Josh Lenadowitz, So just send me
Speaker 2: a DM or Facebook, and then Josh Lenadowitz dot com
Speaker 2: is the website as well.
Speaker 1: And again stuck, if you get stuck and you can't
Speaker 1: find him, send me an email just through my website
Speaker 1: and I'll put you together. And I think also important
Speaker 1: to point out that you know, you're happy to help
Speaker 1: people who want to get on stage, but that's you know,
Speaker 1: you happy to really help anyone who wants to even
Speaker 1: beginners who want to get underway and start weight training.
Speaker 1: Maybe people who've never lifted a weight but just need
Speaker 1: somebody with vast knowledge to kind of keep an eye
Speaker 1: on them and give them a little bit of a guide. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I think with me, I think I've done
Speaker 2: so many different diets and plans and stuff around. I've
Speaker 2: done so many things right and now with what you said,
Speaker 2: they're still trying to figure things out. And we know that,
Speaker 2: you know, with nutrition, it's kind of everything. So you've
Speaker 2: will be a fan bit of a fan of Jordan Peterson,
Speaker 2: I assume, and they've gone through just that Carnival diet,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, well, I think maybe it's time for
Speaker 2: me to give that a bit of a crack. So
Speaker 2: I've been on here a handful of times. I love you.
Speaker 2: Maybe we use this as a bit of a platform
Speaker 2: to say, well, let's do me to turn into the
Speaker 2: Carnival man, to try that out for a bit and
Speaker 2: see how that affects me with getting rid of these
Speaker 2: seizes in this pain and me go onto that and
Speaker 2: a bit of an update letter.
Speaker 1: Have you started that or are you going to?
Speaker 2: Let's do it. I'll start now thinking about that after
Speaker 2: we spoke last night. Well let's when we do this podcast.
Speaker 2: Let's make that the d day.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, all right, so good. So let's all right,
Speaker 1: So are you going to start that now?
Speaker 2: Just meet mate, I'll give it a.
Speaker 1: Crack wow wow, all right, so happy.
Speaker 2: And if it's my discipline, mate, I should be able
Speaker 2: to do it if I can get through those the
Speaker 2: rest of the stuff I've gone through. If I can't
Speaker 2: do it, how can I be a coach and tell
Speaker 2: people to die and need healthy.
Speaker 1: By the way, everyone, that's not a personal recommendation that
Speaker 1: you become a carnival Ony diet.
Speaker 2: But it isn't. But if someone's struggling with keto is
Speaker 2: meant to be a great thing for epilepsy. Yet they
Speaker 2: get very concerned about people's cholesterol and that they put
Speaker 2: people on statins and seize your medication, whereas Carnival's kind
Speaker 2: of a bit more of a newer thing for people.
Speaker 2: So I'm not recommending people do that whatsoever. I'm saying
Speaker 2: for someone like me who's in the rare instance, who's
Speaker 2: been a profession nobody will who's had a cranyotomy and
Speaker 2: had a tumor in the head and had seizures and
Speaker 2: had all these things. It's yeah, try something a little
Speaker 2: bit different, especially when he's got his wife and kids
Speaker 2: to fight for. That's a great motivational tool.
Speaker 1: All right. So I'm looking in my phone. So tomorrow
Speaker 1: is the twenty third of May.
Speaker 2: So when do you want to have me on next
Speaker 2: mante so that this is let's do.
Speaker 1: So let's say you start tomorrow on the twenty third,
Speaker 1: So one week, two week, the four weeks is four
Speaker 1: weeks is the twentieth of June. So I'm going to
Speaker 1: write down June twenty, June twenty, June twenty. We're going
Speaker 1: to get you back on on June twenty, which means
Speaker 1: you will it'll be your twenty eighth day, and we're
Speaker 1: just going to talk about how you've gone on four
Speaker 1: weeks of me ONLYZ. That's that's an interesting N equals
Speaker 1: one study. We're always talking about that here. And Josh
Speaker 1: is the researcher and he is the subject so all
Speaker 1: right mate, well we mate love you too.
Speaker 2: Buddy, and said sorry for complaining any one other story
Speaker 2: was a little bit not.
Speaker 1: Complaining, not complaining. We're just having a chat and you're
Speaker 1: going through a ship time and that's it. Not everything struggle,
Speaker 1: Not everything needs to be. You know, life is peaks
Speaker 1: and troughs, and sometimes you know, it's like loving someone,
Speaker 1: caring about someone, wanting to support someone. Sometimes it's the
Speaker 1: troughs where we really need to work. You know. It's
Speaker 1: like I, when your life's going great, I'm happy to
Speaker 1: just get the fuck out of the road as your friend.
Speaker 1: I don't need to talk to you on a daily
Speaker 1: basis or weekly basis and and fucking pump up your tires.
Speaker 1: But you know, you and I have connected, Like the
Speaker 1: most times where we've connected deeply is often when things
Speaker 1: have gone a bit shit for you. And that's that's
Speaker 1: not because you only reach out to me when you
Speaker 1: need something, but that's when I feel like, hopefully I
Speaker 1: can be of value to you and help you and
Speaker 1: support you. And that's to me, that's like I feel.
Speaker 1: And I know that you're grateful, but you don't need
Speaker 1: to be. But for me, I feel like I have
Speaker 1: an ability to be able to help people in that way.
Speaker 1: So I think I need to use that, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think having conversations like this when things are
Speaker 1: not great, albeit not that common, that everyone wants to
Speaker 1: get on a podcast and be all love and light
Speaker 1: and unicorns and positivity. And I understand that because that
Speaker 1: gets bums on seats, But also that's not reflective of life,
Speaker 1: because sometimes life's a fuckfest of pain and bullshit, and
Speaker 1: you know, that's where we're at, and it's okay, it's
Speaker 1: okay to go, Look, today is a bit shit. That's
Speaker 1: not you being negative, that's you just reporting on how
Speaker 1: today is, you know. And so for me, while this
Speaker 1: is maybe not a typical fucking let's all sing Kumbai
Speaker 1: Ah and conquer the world, I still think these conversations
Speaker 1: are really important. And you know, I appreciate you for
Speaker 1: being honest and vulnerable and authentic in the middle of
Speaker 1: it all.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it, mate, And I also know that not
Speaker 2: what happens to you, it's what you do about it.
Speaker 2: So I hope from you know this conversation as well,
Speaker 2: it's what can I do about it? And some things
Speaker 2: are out of my control, but what is in my control.
Speaker 2: I hope I can control that and and create a
Speaker 2: better outcome.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what you can do, motherfucker. You can
Speaker 1: eat meat for twenty eight days and laugh at you.
Speaker 1: You might get rid of your fat face.
Speaker 2: Oh well, yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1: Love you. I love your fat face.
Speaker 2: So anybody more men to love? Love you, mate,