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Speaker 1: Apoche production. We found out that where Michael was after

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Speaker 1: the death of another brother who died of a heart attack.

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Speaker 2: Another brother of yourself and dies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And of course through all the grief, I decided

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Speaker 1: to find Michael because Mum talked about Michael, but she

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Speaker 1: had no photos of Michael. She just described him and

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Speaker 1: said that we had a brother between Dawson and Annette,

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Speaker 1: our younger sister, and his name was Michael. So Michael

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Speaker 1: kind of like grew up with us, even though we

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Speaker 1: never saw a photo.

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Speaker 2: Of him or never knew he was spoken of.

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Speaker 1: Yes, he was spoken of. And many many mothers when

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Speaker 1: they lost a child. In average or women, they don't

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Speaker 1: talk about their babies that they're lost. But with Mum,

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Speaker 1: it was part of her grieving that she made sure

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Speaker 1: that the other seven siblings were well aware of Michael.

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Speaker 1: After Dawson died in twenty and fourteen, I started looking

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Speaker 1: for Michael into early June in twenty fifteen, and I

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Speaker 1: found him at the biggest cemetery at Rookwood.

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Speaker 2: Let's just take a step back. For those that are

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Speaker 2: listening at the moment, it's only you. You must have

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Speaker 2: really had to do a lot of work to find

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Speaker 2: out where Michael was. It wasn't just a plain and

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Speaker 2: simple burial where he was, was it?

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Speaker 1: No? Well, Mom used to call it Rockwood, and I

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Speaker 1: actually rang Rookwood and asked did they have a Michael

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Speaker 1: Kelly because Mum always said that he was in Kelly

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Speaker 1: and turned around. They said, yeah, we got an adult

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Speaker 1: Michael Kelly, but no child. So it just dawned on

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Speaker 1: me one day that he could be in her maiden

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Speaker 1: name of Nichols. Yes, and there it came up, and

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Speaker 1: I was that day I rang my mother to give

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Speaker 1: her the first message that I found Michael. And that

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Speaker 1: was a very day that we celebrated, so we knew

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Speaker 1: where he was. So then what happened in twenty and sixteen,

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Speaker 1: my brother Stephen, who's in between me and I, he

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Speaker 1: went down and they took him to a there was

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Speaker 1: a multiple grave of children with no headstones.

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Speaker 2: A multiple grave of children, so yes, young babies so

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Speaker 2: basically had just been stuck on the top of each other.

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Speaker 2: That's discuss.

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Speaker 1: It was just like a normal like park area, no

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Speaker 1: no headstones, nothing, And Steven took a bunch of flowers

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Speaker 1: and asked where Michael was and they said baby Nichols

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Speaker 1: is here. But you can't put the flowers on the grave.

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Speaker 1: You have to put the flowers in the tree because

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Speaker 1: there's another baby buried on top.

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Speaker 2: And now let's just put this in perspective. There is

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Speaker 2: no relation either far enough. You see family vaults where

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Speaker 2: you know, families are buried on top of each other

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Speaker 2: or what have you. But this is a young Indigenous

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Speaker 2: man that was taken from his country, Kempsy Dungutee country

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Speaker 2: in a time where if I can be very honest,

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Speaker 2: and you know, we've just had an amazing First Nations

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Speaker 2: woman with a powerful stir of Marie Barbaric and she

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Speaker 2: was from exactly Kempsey and she was, you know, the

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Speaker 2: last of the stolen generation. That being said, there was

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Speaker 2: a lot of politics around indiding his children, wasn't there

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Speaker 2: at this period of the seventies that was very controversial

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Speaker 2: that the government today still have a lot to answer

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Speaker 2: for as far as I'm concerned, and your mob must

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Speaker 2: be seeking answers as well.

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Speaker 3: How was that?

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Speaker 1: Well as the journey went through, after Steven found out

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Speaker 1: there was a it was a multiple grave, he rang

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Speaker 1: my mother? Who rang me? And I said no, Mum,

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Speaker 1: Michael's in a single grave, but he's in the Catholic side.

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Speaker 1: So I rang up Rookwood, and Rookwood I said, can

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Speaker 1: there be a plaque or anything put there until we

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Speaker 1: can get the money to exoom Michael and take him

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Speaker 1: home to Armadale. But they turned around and said, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: but there's a seventy year old man buried on top

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Speaker 1: of your brother in nineteen eighty six.

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Speaker 2: What the fuck?

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Speaker 1: Yes, a seventy year old man buried on top of

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Speaker 1: Michael in a paupers grape a row.

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Speaker 2: But so is there identification of this seventy year old

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Speaker 2: man being buried? There is there a plark or something

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Speaker 2: to commemorate the passing of him? Yes, And here's your

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Speaker 2: your young brother underneath.

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Speaker 1: This, underneath the seventy year old homeless man.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, I get that seven year old homeless man.

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Speaker 2: That happens, but I don't understand how they have the

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Speaker 2: hide to sit there and put anybody on top of it.

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Speaker 3: It gets better, it gets better.

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Speaker 2: Oh, please go for it, because this is something that

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Speaker 2: needs to be heard.

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Speaker 1: And when Diane, I'll let Diane talk because she was

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Speaker 1: the one that got the burial deed. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Oh that was a mission like everything too was When

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Speaker 2: you say it was a mission, die was it? Mainly

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Speaker 2: because everything you've been covered up, like you know, from

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Speaker 2: the governor's point of view, have been able to get

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Speaker 2: any information.

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Speaker 3: It was more like red tape. Every door that we

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Speaker 3: tried to get through, it was like slammed. We didn't

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Speaker 3: have no support. And when we we had to get

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Speaker 3: permission of you know, Rockwood to go to another agency

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Speaker 3: to access you know, like information about our brother was

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Speaker 3: just unbelievable. Just to the access what information that we needed

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Speaker 3: to get me and Zona, we we bounce off each other.

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Speaker 2: I can see that where this all I was just

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Speaker 2: for those that for those that are listening at the moment,

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at two wonderful sisters here, and just the

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Speaker 2: energy from them both is very powerful. And I've got

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Speaker 2: to say, you know, like just in the short moment

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Speaker 2: we've had this chatting and then we've got a lot

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Speaker 2: more to get through yet, but I can see that

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Speaker 2: there's a very strong connection between the both of you,

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Speaker 2: and I think that that is starting to give me

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Speaker 2: a bit of a picture of what your mob's all about,

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Speaker 2: and you know, the fight in you and your family.

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Speaker 2: I can see that already.

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Speaker 3: So it was a long, hard journey. Took a lot

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Speaker 3: of our energy. Yeah, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

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Speaker 3: For all the red tape that we went through, I

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Speaker 3: have the belief that there's more to the story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So basically that didn't define us. So we kept going

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Speaker 3: and going until we found what we needed and then

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Speaker 3: going back to the actual records of a cemetery. They

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Speaker 3: had no records. It was just only Michael's name, father unknown,

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Speaker 3: funeral director unknown. It really crucified us.

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Speaker 2: How is your mom feeling? You know through this stage.

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Speaker 2: Mom's still alive today, is she?

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Speaker 3: Yes, she is pretty much. On our journey through this,

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Speaker 3: we had to hold certain things back because of her health.

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Speaker 2: Be traumatic for her to relive too, wouldn't me?

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Speaker 3: And Zona, we were exposed to the full force of

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Speaker 3: it emotionally, you know, mentally being told you know, and

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Speaker 3: seeing information that you wouldn't wish you know, how could

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Speaker 3: they get it wrong? You know, you got one hundred

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Speaker 3: and one questions of how could they get it wrong?

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Speaker 3: It was a new single grave, but they were saying

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Speaker 3: that it was a multiple grave. Then you get the

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Speaker 3: records to clarify that that it was a you know,

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Speaker 3: a new single grave that to us, he wasn't a pauper,

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Speaker 3: you know. And you think, as a mother today, to

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Speaker 3: think of my mum, of everything that she went through,

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Speaker 3: of you know, not saying her last goodbyes to our

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Speaker 3: baby brother, not holding him, you know, seeing him. It

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Speaker 3: crucifies a mother. And to go through that, to relive

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Speaker 3: that journey, it was very emotional and very hard,