1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:11,079 Speaker 1: There's this huge difference in terms of the extent to 2 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: which this fuels or deplets your resilience and capacity for life. 3 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: And it's not just what is this thing how, not 4 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: just the sheer perimeters of that thing, but what is 5 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: this thing supposed to be doing? And so when you 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: find yourself belonging to something that is bigger, that is purposeful, 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: that has a positive intent, that has rules written or 8 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: otherwise that are supposed to help serve one another, that's 9 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: the good stuff. 10 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And you can see how powerful this stuff is, 11 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: you know, when you when you go to environments, particularly 12 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 2: when there is a lack of hope. There's a lot 13 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 2: being talked about over here in Australia about gangs, right 14 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: about young gangs, and I know New Zealand has similar problems. 15 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 2: But you look at the psychology of that. It's generally 16 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: a bunch of young men with lack of hope who 17 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 2: then kind of get pulled together with this tribalism. There's 18 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: this this sort of shared being a valued member of 19 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 2: some sort of a community. And now it's just changed 20 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 2: the morals and the behaviors. Uh. And you have all 21 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 2: sorts of different tribes and communities but we we want 22 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 2: to feel like we're a member of a tribe. I 23 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 2: think that's an innate thing because the human brain is 24 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 2: fundamentally a social organ You'll know as a psychologist how 25 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 2: much of our brain is dedicated to social interactions, to language, 26 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 2: to emotion processing, to understanding intent of others and all 27 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: of this stuff. It's just I think it's so fundamental, 28 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: that whole belonging, but the way that you talk about 29 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: it as well, not just belonging to a group, but 30 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: that the whole idea of wet self as well. Can 31 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 2: you just expand a little bit on belonging and are 32 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 2: there any tools in your toolkit resilience tools structure around 33 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 2: belonging that people can use. 34 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think so the starting point for 35 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: belonging for resilience is effectively understanding the perimeters of just 36 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: how much you could do if you knew yourself. 37 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 2: Right. 38 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: So, the reason why I'm mentioning this is oftentimes when 39 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: we're thinking about belonging, we're thinking about something we have inherited. 40 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: You describe yourself as a recovering Catholic, right, and oftentimes 41 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: what'll be fine is letting go of something we have 42 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: been born with or have inherited over time is one 43 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: of the hardest things, while resilience. When I'm speaking about 44 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: belonging to something that is bigger than you and better 45 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: than you, as well as belonging that starts from within, 46 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: defining the values, the purpose, the sense of identity that 47 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: you have. This is the stuff of magic, right, I 48 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: think to build the broader scope. By the way, I 49 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: got startled a little bit because there is a bunch 50 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: of loud individuals next door, and clearly they're starting there, 51 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 1: They're starting the daylight. So apologies, that's all good. So 52 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 1: the tools around deepening your own sense of belonging and 53 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: broadening it. Strangely enough, it starts with awareness. Again, That's 54 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: why these things are in sequenced awareness, belonging, curiosity, drive, right, 55 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: but really pausing long enough to understand what fuels and 56 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: drives you, what sustains you, what are the values and 57 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: principles that you uphold, and how many of these are 58 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: the echoes of yesterday rather than the thing that matters 59 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: most for the future. 60 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: Oh I like that. 61 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: Don't you. Let's can we stay on that for a 62 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: hot second? 63 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 2: Yes? Yeah, because you know. 64 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: When if we are thinking about we're not we are 65 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: speaking of belonging for resilience. It's not a different beast, 66 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: but it hasn't added little something something than the usual 67 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: belonging that makes you you'll soft and cozy on the couch, right, 68 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: that's not what we're here for. And so if you're 69 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: thinking about the kind of belonging that galvanizeres that focuses you, 70 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: that allows you to fortify your attention so that you 71 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,919 Speaker 1: can see your way out and thrive, then that is 72 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: the stuff that is very again intentional and deliberate. So 73 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: many of us define our sense of belonging, our sense 74 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: of identity based on heuristic rules of thumb, principles and 75 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: values that have been inherited, some kind of trickle down effect. 76 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: Seldom do we pose to actually work out where that 77 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: stuff comes from. We're taking us. So the echo of 78 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: yesterday is only as interesting as it helps inform our future. 79 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: That's not about rejecting everything you've come with, but about 80 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: being quite clear and quite open about just how much 81 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 1: more you can grow and just how much more you 82 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: can give. 83 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 2: And those echoes of yesterday, some of them will be useful. 84 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 2: Some of them will have been useful at some stage 85 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: in your life. But are no longer serving you well, 86 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: nigh right, And so it's a bit of an ongoing process. 87 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 2: This thing isn't it? 88 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: Yes, it is, and but I've got it on a 89 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: I think it can confidently say it is a It 90 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: is a good challenge because you see a kind of 91 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: a liken it to traveling with a backpack full of 92 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: howf open cans of beans? You don't need, you know 93 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: what I mean? You don't need that burden past a 94 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: certain point. And I think the ability to boss get 95 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: your lessons learned, then continue is essential for anyone who 96 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: considers themselves wanting to be resilient and to be driving 97 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: in life. 98 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I. 99 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 1: Love what you said. So you know the piece about 100 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: what has served you, what no longer does? And how 101 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: do you have to enrich your repertu our for life? 102 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: You understanding of it in order to be purposeful, to 103 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: be good, to be meaning, to grow. It does require 104 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: pausing for a hot second, checking yourself, and then continuing. 105 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: So many of the people and teams that I work 106 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: with are obstracted by that white noise of unchecked stuff. 107 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 2: Right, the white noise, the white noise can be all consuming. 108 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 2: And let's talk about curiosity. Curiosity killed the cat. Satisfaction 109 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 2: brought it back, right have you heard of that term? 110 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 2: Curiosity killed the cat? That satisfaction brought it back. But curiosity, 111 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 2: see if your life absolutely taught us through. 112 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 1: That my favorite thing. Curiosity is absolutely my favorite thing, 113 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: and if you can please have more room for it, 114 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: then we will be all very happy. So, yes, curiosity 115 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: did save our life because it allowed us to look 116 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: at what appeared to be a fixed situation from different angles, 117 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:02,119 Speaker 1: including the intention of our tours. And I what hazard 118 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: A guess that if you can find space for curiosity 119 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: in the acute and it has served us right, then 120 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: you should make truckloads of room for it anyway you look. 121 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 2: Right. 122 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: So, in the context of resilience, I was surprised to 123 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: see that when I started researching it, resilience, curiosity didn't 124 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: seem to feature with it. That's some years ago. Now 125 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: now we know it's an absolute treasure, right, But effectively, 126 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: curiosity is one of those things that you can't be 127 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: curious and freaked out at the same time, right, interesting, Yeah, Yeah, 128 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: It's one of those things that you know, if you 129 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: allow yourself the scope for it, the space for it, it 130 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: doesn't take much to practice that muscle. It's a micro movement, right, 131 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: We're wired for it. What it does is that it 132 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: allows you to see what you previously thought was unsurmountable 133 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: or overwhelming. It's just a curious space to explore. And 134 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: when you get yourself look around the corner just long enough, 135 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: you get to see many different ways in which you 136 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: can respond rather than react. Right, it's a beauty. All 137 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: it takes is asking yourself a hot question here in 138 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: the air, a little bit more than you have previously done. 139 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: Curiosity is start with this thing that you mentioned earlier, 140 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: right from conduct, have to capture one one thousand, two, 141 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: one thousand and three, one thousand, taking a breath before 142 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: you get yourself in the reaction mode, allowing more of 143 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: the inputs of your context to influence you read of 144 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: a situation, to choose whether you want to engage with 145 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: it or not, and to actually begin to experiment with 146 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: different ways of taking your predicament and with curiosity. 147 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 2: Is it important to be curious about yourself and your 148 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 2: own behaviors and your emotions? Is that helpful from a 149 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 2: resilience perspective? 150 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: I think so, I think so, and I'm saying it 151 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: with caution because there is a risk of us becoming 152 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: indulgent looking to find the answer within, whereas the answer 153 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: is in interaction. 154 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 2: I find a paralysis by analysis, right. And this is 155 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: where talk, some talk therapist drive me mad, where people 156 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 2: just go and talk about their issues and there's no 157 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 2: action associated with it. 158 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's not. It's not a very healthy thing, 159 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: is it. 160 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 2: Now? God Jesus that you can just you can go 161 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 2: down so many rabbit holes in your own head. Uh. 162 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,079 Speaker 2: And I think think some talk therapist can actually make 163 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 2: it worse, particularly if there's no action that's aligned with 164 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 2: purpose and values. Right, all the stuff that you talk about. 165 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: That's it. That's it. There is no testing it, there's 166 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: no feedback loop. 167 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 2: Yes. 168 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: So, but an element of being curious about yourself is essential. 169 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: And I think let's tempt ourselves into this place because 170 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: if we are not what we assuming is that I emotion, 171 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: the one we get locked into reaction, the read or 172 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: the label we picked up about a situation is all 173 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: the ris So occasionally going hey, wait hot a second, 174 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: what is this thing? What is this? What is this 175 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: story I'm telling myself? I think it's really really helpful 176 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: because if we get ourselves in the state of actually 177 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 1: recognizing that conclusions, the conclusions we often draw about things 178 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: are just the habitual reaction rather than a deliberate response. 179 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 1: This place is better, right, So, yes, wondering where your 180 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: responses come from, what purpose they serve, and whether they 181 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 1: serve you is essential. Getting stuck in it not so much. 182 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, absolutely. And there's another thing about curiosity that 183 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 2: I think is really important because for me, being curious 184 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 2: not just about yourself in real the whole resilience contacts. 185 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 2: But if we broaden it a little bit, just being 186 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 2: curious about the world I think is hugely important because 187 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 2: I think curiosity is a prerequisite for AWE. And there's 188 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 2: so much really cold shit involved in AWE. Then the 189 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 2: experience of awe, and how then that can flow on 190 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 2: to gratitude. So I like to talk about those three 191 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 2: things as close cousins. Curiosity about the word, about yourself, 192 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 2: about other people, and that then triggers AWE. Right, if 193 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 2: you're not curious about life, then you wouldn't be so 194 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 2: blown away by it. Right. I start off every day 195 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 2: by going to myself one in four hundred trillion, get 196 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 2: the fuck up. And do stuff, right, That's what scientists reckon, 197 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: are our odds of having been born. But if you're 198 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 2: not curious about that in the first place, and it's 199 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 2: hard to be awe inspired just with everyday life, the 200 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 2: stuff that's going on. And then if you have real awe, 201 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 2: it is so friggin hard not to be genuinely grateful 202 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,719 Speaker 2: about stuff. And I think that's a perspective shifter that 203 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 2: a lot of people miss out when they are just 204 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 2: passive consumers of life being entertained on friggin's screens. Right, 205 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 2: what's your thoughts on all of that? 206 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: I just I absolutely love all of that. You're speaking 207 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: of awe, and you know what instantly makes me. It 208 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: makes me concerned that so many of us are accustomed 209 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: to looking for it elsewhere, you know, like it's a coombastic, 210 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: super colorful version of life. But it is abundant and 211 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: available virtually every way you look down the hill from 212 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: my farm. I was there yesterday with my son and 213 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: one of his besties, and they were in awe. A 214 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,599 Speaker 1: small little you know, a leaf that hangs off a 215 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: spider web over a little river that only forms when 216 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: we have abundant rain out here, right, the bottom of 217 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: the very small little thing, and you could see them 218 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: mesmerized for the longest of time, studying this process of 219 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,599 Speaker 1: how have things occurred here? Wondering whether they're still in 220 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: a stage of wondering whether you know elves and little 221 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: creatures are real? Right? Yes, yes, stories about that stuff? 222 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: Now here's your scare folding of curiosity right, not is 223 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 1: something that astonishes you in that moment, begin to appreciate 224 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: how the subtleties of it, all the subcomponents of it 225 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: that have to travel together to form in this thing 226 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: that you are observing and witnessing at the moment exists. Yes, 227 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: that is astonishing, right, Whereas you know the alternative of 228 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: that is just racing to the mall with you muddy boots, 229 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: not having noticed any of that stuff at all, looking 230 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: for some kind of gratification loop. 231 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 2: That's put your head and your freaking phone on the way. 232 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's absurd, right, It's just insane. And when 233 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: you like these sorts of moments, give you space, give 234 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: you time, Suddenly time stretches. You know, thirty minutes walk 235 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: down a hill becomes an hour of exploration and ideas remarkable. 236 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 2: Thing absolutely that you mention in your books often that 237 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 2: I read that I absolutely love things that matter take effort. 238 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 2: What do you mean by that? 239 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: This is part of the wider, unapologetic script for life, right, 240 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: And so all of the things that we should be 241 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: waking up for that galvanize us, that center us, that 242 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: ground us, that give us a sense of momentum, are 243 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: the sorts of things we have chosen, right, or the 244 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: sorts of things that we feel committed to. And so 245 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: I think things that matter take effort is a little 246 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: heuristic I have for myself to allow myself never to 247 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: take the sorts of things that matter for granted, right, 248 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: to invest what I've got in pursuing those goals and 249 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: to grow them bigger, louder, more meaningful. You know it. 250 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: Also it also challenges us to pause when we catch 251 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: ourselves in this gratification cycle of life. That's not what 252 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: the good stuff is about, right, because that's the longer 253 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: journey and experiencing yourself being able to be your best 254 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: version as you traversed some of the gnarliest turns of life. 255 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's about being in the contest. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, 256 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 2: And you also talk about and this one got me 257 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 2: a procrastination story. So what is a procrastination story? How 258 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 2: do people do it? Why is it useful to do 259 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 2: this little exercise? 260 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: Tell me, tell me, tell me more. I forgotten that, 261 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: forgotten that? But why does that excite you? 262 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 2: Well, no, no, that didn't excite me. 263 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 3: It needled me because because I I can be guilty 264 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 3: of procrastination and I've I've worked out why, right, And well, 265 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 3: actually it was my wife who worked out why. 266 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 2: And I think it is because of my time in 267 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 2: the military. I did helicopter search and rescue, I did 268 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 2: anti submony warfare, and it was always better, right it was. 269 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 2: It was full on and and I think I became 270 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 2: an adrenaline junkie out of it. So I tend to 271 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 2: wait until there's a fucking looming disaster before I get 272 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: interested in doing stuff, and then I get excited and 273 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 2: completely dialed in. So it was just interesting for me 274 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 2: that procrastination story and what's behind it because I unpacked 275 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 2: and it was actually it was it was a mete 276 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 2: of mine who was my general manager at the time, 277 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 2: a guy called Maya big Maori dude, And we're going 278 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 2: to talk about Maris at the end. And he was 279 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 2: my general manager. I remember him saying to me, Paul, 280 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 2: it's clear to me that every time there's a crisis, 281 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 2: you get excited and that's when you get switched on. 282 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 2: But others don't just remember that, and he's true, It 283 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 2: was absolutely true, And so I will actually procrastinate so 284 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 2: that I create enough of a crisis to get interested 285 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 2: to do the work. 286 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 1: So thank you so much for sharing this. And I'm 287 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: sure a bunch of your audience would absolutely see themselves 288 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: in that this is an epic example of awareness, right, 289 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: whether you were conditioned like that through your military service 290 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: or whether you were innateve like that. 291 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 2: And yeah, I think it's probably a bit of both, right, 292 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 2: because that's why I got drawn into what I did, 293 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 2: and then it accentuated it. 294 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: I don't want to give any exits out of responsibility 295 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 1: or self but like, think about this is a this 296 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: is an epic evolutionary setting, right, Like why waste energy 297 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: for something that is non critical? Like who's going to die? 298 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: You know? Be it that I'm about to go hunt 299 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,439 Speaker 1: and eat? Like what what am I wasting my resources for? 300 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 2: Right? 301 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: But we don't let ourselves off the hook, even if 302 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: we are wire that way, And so the job to 303 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: be done then is to discover what it is that 304 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: galvanizes you. You don't have to be in a state 305 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 1: of constant burno the whole time. Obviously we don't want 306 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: to do any of that stuff. But I'm concerned about 307 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: the scripts for life that many of us choose will 308 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: have to apply to all of us, disregarding how different 309 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: we all are. Right, and so, for example, for some 310 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: of us, that procrastination story is procrastinating on the bigger 311 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 1: challenge that we should be focusing our attention on, and 312 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: instead seeing ourselves spilling our attention and energy over all 313 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: sorts of small stuff that nobody cares about, including ourselves. Yes, 314 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: I won't know what version of procrastination is scarier, and 315 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: there are plenty of numbers between zero and one, but 316 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: I just want to double click on that. Correct me 317 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: if I've gone all crazy on it. But one version 318 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: of procrastination in life is the one that kind of 319 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: waits until things have become totally disaster like to galvanize 320 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: and include us. There you are walking in saving us all. 321 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: The second one is procrastinating on the big important stuff 322 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: by distracting ourselves with a whole heap of small stuff. 323 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, absolutely, So in. 324 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: Between all of these things exist an opportunity for us 325 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: to pause and appreciate that we have plenty of choice 326 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: in some instances, perhaps too much of it. But in 327 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: that space we have to become a little bit more intentional. Right, So, 328 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: finding your medicine, understanding how your system operates, you know, 329 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 1: what is it that it requires. Does it require peace 330 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 1: and calm in order to be methodical, or does it 331 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: require a little bit more of a strain in order 332 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,719 Speaker 1: to be galvanized and focused. We're all unique and different. 333 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: Some of these things might take us to a bit 334 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: of a nasty spike. We have to work on. It's 335 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: just a gremlin. We have conversation with it, we sel 336 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 1: for it, and we continue. But I, yeah, I find 337 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: that really interesting, those those domains of procrastination and what 338 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: it actually might look like in terms of outcomes. 339 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 2: I love that you said and that something along the 340 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 2: lines of you're not going to absolve you of the 341 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 2: responsibility yourself off because it's interesting. Right, So I have 342 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 2: worked out why I procrastinate, and I could go, oh, 343 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 2: well that's just me and accept how I am, which 344 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 2: is not the right answer, right, It's to understand it 345 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 2: for the purpose of moving forward and actually betterment. And 346 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 2: I actually think if we again come to broader psychology, 347 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 2: I think a lot of mental health labels are absolving 348 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 2: people of responsibility for taking action, right, And I'm not 349 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 2: here incorporating people who have severe mental illness. I'm talking 350 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 2: about the people that have the mild anxiety or mild 351 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 2: depression that they kind of hook on to that label 352 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 2: and it's my anxiety or it's my depression, and it 353 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: becomes an excuse not to move forwards, are not to 354 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 2: do the work. And so I love that you said 355 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:04,640 Speaker 2: about not letting absorbing yourself with responsibility, because I think 356 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 2: that's dangerous. Right if we just become curious and go, oh, 357 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 2: this is just me, this is how I am. This 358 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 2: is why I think self acceptance is risky. Right. It's 359 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 2: a continuum, isn't it. 360 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,360 Speaker 1: Did you thank you for doing this for me? Did 361 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: you see me biting my tongue trying not to tach labels? 362 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: I don't like them because I think they're wildly limiting 363 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: unless we do something with them, right, I'm sure that 364 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: better understand ourselves and then build up a way forward 365 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: that is far more meaningful and agile than we could 366 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: have contemplated in the absence of them. But I fully agree, 367 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: I see it. Those labels. They're almost a caging device. 368 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 2: Do you know, love a caging device. 369 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: I just constantly bite my tongue. I catch myself constantly 370 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: looking those that just it's a little bit, it's a 371 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: little bit disconcerting. Don't know whether we found ourselves in 372 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: a place where we understand what might take away from us, 373 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: but have been slow to offer us. So then what 374 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? So I am extremely 375 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: keen for us to starting to to start to unleash 376 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 1: ourselves from some of these assumptions, those ways out of life, 377 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: because I don't know whether they serve us in any way, 378 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: you know, anyway in treapments. Labels can be intrepments unless yes, yeah, 379 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: I really love that. So I think let's go ahead 380 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,479 Speaker 1: and start putting commas after labels so that we can 381 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,360 Speaker 1: start exploring I love commas. 382 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 2: That's that's really important because and and this is I 383 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 2: think where psychology has gone wrong, And it's that that 384 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 2: there is a risk that the whole psychology industry is 385 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 2: actually minting, just like a central bank mints money, and 386 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 2: and and it's it's well intentioned, right, but I think 387 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 2: we've just gone to a crazy level where there's a 388 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 2: label for this and a label for that and a 389 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 2: label for the other thing. And as you say, there's 390 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 2: no comma or the comma is antake this medication, which 391 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 2: is just is a part like that's another rabbit hole 392 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 2: that we probably shouldn't go down. But I love your 393 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 2: idea of those labels need a comma after them, and 394 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 2: and that brings us nicely into your fourth one. And 395 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 2: and I hope our listeners can see the sequential nature 396 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 2: of this because from the curiosity, going back to belonging, 397 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,719 Speaker 2: going back to awareness, then let's all about drive because 398 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 2: for me, this is this is the biggie. Right. So 399 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 2: firstly I would question I have for you is what's 400 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 2: the difference between drive and motivation? 401 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: Ah? Right? So okay, can I start with my favorite heuristic, 402 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 1: which is purpose precedes drive? 403 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 2: So I love that and your it's very cool. 404 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I absolutely love it. Right, And so again in 405 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: that is the answer of the motivation versus drive. I 406 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: just don't want to make it simple a simple answer, right, 407 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: because it's a biggie. The vast majority of us run 408 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: around trying to find a reason of trying to find 409 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: ourselves in a state of energized neuroticism so we can 410 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: achieve the things we don't want to achieve, Which is 411 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 1: why I'm I'm hesitant to speak about this motivation versus 412 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: drive thing, right, because we are putting the card before 413 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: the horse or whatever the saying is that basically suggests 414 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: we're putting things in the wrong order over and over 415 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 1: and over again. So purpose precedes drive is the easiest 416 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: and most impactful heuristic I've come upon. And I attribute 417 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: this to my dear, dear friend Sam, who was a 418 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: mentor in THEESS and an extraordinary, extraordinary wise man. So anyway, 419 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: the point of this is, unless we know and are 420 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 1: assigned to our sense of purpose, the probability of us 421 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: being a saying human that is also driven is zilch 422 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: to none. And I think we oftentimes become wildly indulgent 423 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 1: expecting that we are going to feel a sense of 424 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: motivation and drive towards something that we don't understand, don't 425 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: align with, or don't inspire us. Doesn't inspire us, right, 426 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: So that's the starting point and the easiest conclusion. There 427 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: is bit clear on where it is that you are heading. 428 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: Know who you are, not this person standing there holding 429 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: the ground beneath your feet, but more importantly, bit clear 430 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: on what it is that this journey is about for you. 431 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 2: Right. 432 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 1: So, I think so many of us just are in 433 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: the state of reactivity or the daily grind, to the 434 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: point where we haven't caught ourselves in any way aligned 435 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: with what it is that we do. Right, So, purpose 436 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: procease drive is incredibly important. Motivation seems to follow when 437 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 1: we have discovered that, Right, It's a no brainer. It's 438 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 1: a no brainer when you get there. It's it's it's 439 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 1: not a thing to find first before you realize what 440 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: you do with it. It goes the other way. 441 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a similar ish heuristic. Motivation follows action, 442 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 2: not the other way around. Right, And but the action 443 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 2: bit is linked to your purpose and values. And there's 444 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 2: so many people who are out there waiting for the 445 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 2: motivation fairy to come along and give them a dollop 446 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 2: of motivation to be motivated around their health or their 447 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 2: their life, or or their work or whatever it may be. 448 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 2: And and and this is the thing you want, the 449 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 2: you want the motivation ferry, start freaking acting towards a 450 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 2: meaningful goal that's aligned with your purpose and values. Yes, 451 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 2: there's where the motivation ferry lives under that rock. 452 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: Why did no one read that book? Now? That was 453 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: not written at the start of humanity? Do you know 454 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: what I mean? That thing about it just it has 455 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 1: to follow You're absolutely right. It follows action. 456 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 2: And there's now a whole host of neuroscience experiments that 457 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 2: shows that when you're bringing perceives that you're in forwards 458 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 2: motion towards a valued gold, that's when it releases dopamine. Beautiful, 459 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 2: and that's what propels you to do further stuff. So 460 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 2: tell us for people who are listening, going okay, so 461 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 2: they're talking a lot about purpose and values. This this 462 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 2: continually comes up. Are there any tools that you have 463 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 2: or little exercises that people can do if they're unclear 464 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 2: about this? Because often in workshops, you know, I'll ask 465 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 2: an audience, you know, when we're talking about purpose, So 466 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 2: who here would have a clear sense of meaning and 467 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 2: purpose in their life? Typically I'll get five to ten 468 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 2: percent hands going up, and then there'll be a chunk 469 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 2: of people. I'll ask, well, who has thought about this 470 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 2: and has wrestled with it? And you get the majority 471 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 2: of the audience and then I'm like, who else is going, 472 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 2: what the fuck are you talking about? Dude? Right? And 473 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,719 Speaker 2: a few hands go up laughingly. So some people are 474 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 2: completely rudderless in life. Some people the rudder is kind 475 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 2: of weaving but not fixed. So how do you help 476 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: people to discover what their purpose and values are? 477 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: So? Interestingly, I mean, I really want you to at 478 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: some point come back to the point that you made 479 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: earlier about dopament, because I think it's an incredibly important 480 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: line that we have to underline for absolutely everyone that listens. Right, Yeah, 481 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: the whole thing about how is your how is our 482 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: system designed? And why is our system designed in such 483 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: a way that the good stuff follows action, it doesn't 484 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: proceed it. You really have to, I think, make a 485 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: small little chunk of this conversation with you on that alone. 486 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 2: If you don't, let's stay on that and then we'll 487 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 2: move to it. Yes. 488 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, So the first thing that I wanted to suggest this, 489 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: when we are looking for purpose and values, we oftentimes 490 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: are deceiving ourselves that it's some sort of cerebel exercise, right, 491 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: that it's something we need to intellectualize. There is an 492 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: element of that. But it doesn't happen within and it 493 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: doesn't happen in spite of the world outside of us. 494 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: I've come to realize, and I'm sure it exists widely 495 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: in the literature, that it happens in living. And so 496 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: what I mean by that, we've got simple formulas, right, 497 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: There are tools in my book, There are tools everywhere around. 498 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: How would you define your purpose? The simple reference we've 499 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: all seen is that three circle, you know, kind of 500 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: model right where you overlay your ability with your passion 501 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: and opportunity. And in that little perfect overlad is purpose. 502 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: But what it does is that this is just the 503 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: starting point to it, right. The job to be done 504 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: is to step into it, to test it and to 505 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: see how you can grow it. I whan you cat 506 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: yourself on that wave feeling fulfilled, feeling satisfied, feeling equally 507 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,959 Speaker 1: challenged and supported by your ability bio context as well 508 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: as the opportunities ahead of you, there is your purpose. 509 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: So the short of it is, when you're talking about purpose, 510 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: which is the sort of label you're going to be 511 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: going by with life ahead of you, the easiest thing 512 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: to do is to start considering what's your passion first 513 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 1: and foremost, what inspires what fuels you? Equally, what keeps 514 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: you up at night? Right? That is your really clear 515 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: sense of what are the sorts of things that resonate. 516 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: We keep thinking that purpose, that same purpose we were 517 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: born with, is going to stay with us for life. 518 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: In some instances, maybe live life well, hopefully at the 519 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: very least expense. It deepens, it broadens even better, It 520 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: might becomes something else, It might become multiple different things. 521 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: Right faces the stages of life challenges to show up 522 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: a little differently. I feel the time when we have 523 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: lost our sense of purpose is when we have caught 524 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: ourselves in an unhealthy inertia. Right, we just jumped on 525 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: that wheel and we didn't realize the turning point had 526 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: missed us. So shorthand passion, What fuels, what drives, what 527 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: sustains you? Be aware these are indulgent exercises. The biggest 528 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: part of the world doesn't appear to have the time 529 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: or the opportunity to discuss these sorts of things. Yeah, 530 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: it finds you when you walk out the door when 531 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: you wake up in the morning. 532 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely. I think one other 533 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 2: question I like to get people to think about as 534 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 2: well as the passion stuff, which I think is critical 535 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 2: is what if it was taken away from you, would 536 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 2: create a massive hole or vacuum in your life. I 537 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 2: think that can also help to guide people. And I 538 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 2: like to get people to do a little exercise what 539 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 2: I call a tombstone statement, which is what would you 540 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 2: like to be written on your tombstone? That would and 541 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 2: I put some guardrails on this, that would sum up 542 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 2: your life, how you want to be remembered and your 543 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 2: contribution to society. All right, So mine and I often 544 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 2: talk about this in workshops, is military man turned educator 545 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 2: to help others be better versions of themselves. But I 546 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 2: said to people that this is just about how you 547 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 2: can make a little difference in your little corner of 548 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 2: the universe. Right, It's not about having a multimillion dollar 549 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 2: startup and an orphanage in Nepal. I think Seneca talked 550 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 2: about is everybody's responsibility to be of value to humanity. Beautiful, 551 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 2: and that kind of I think is helpful for people 552 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 2: to think not just about me, but how I fit 553 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 2: into the world and how I can be a useful 554 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 2: member of a tribe. I keep coming back to that 555 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 2: word usefulness, because to be a functioning member of a tribe, 556 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 2: you've got to be useful to others, not just to yourself, 557 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 2: but to others. 558 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: This means the world, you know, talking about tombstones, right 559 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: and purpose one of the some time back we were 560 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: hopefully it doesn't sound too that, but we were reflecting 561 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: on how many of the tombstones, if you cast your 562 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: eye over, it would read much the same, you know, 563 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: loving father, loving parent, whatever, and all that kind of stuff. 564 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: And that's fine, that's fantastic. Right, you have followed some 565 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: version of a script. You have done well sticking to it. 566 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: If we are helping support individuals so that they are 567 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: better contributors, more worthy humans, then maybe the job to 568 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: be done is to be more explicit around how do 569 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: you arrive at that place? Do you know what I mean? 570 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: And if you were to be you know, a good human, 571 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: to be someone who is serving those beyond yourself better, 572 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: what is the unique way in which you go about 573 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: doing that? Do you know what I mean? 574 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 2: Yes? And which are if I'm if I'm following you correctly, 575 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:21,399 Speaker 2: they are behaviorally based values. Right, how do you how 576 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 2: do you actually get there? Right? It's that whole then 577 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 2: in the art of motorcycle maintenance. I don't if you've 578 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 2: ever read that book by Robert Persing the line in 579 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 2: that book that's stuck in my head as a nineteen 580 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 2: year old. He was talking about everybody traveling up the 581 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 2: mountain and wanting to get to the peak, and he 582 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 2: said that sometimes it's better to travel than to get there, right, 583 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 2: And that whole part about being fully engaged in the process. Right, 584 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 2: That's a that's a critical part of heartiness, the close 585 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 2: cousin to resilience that I talked about, but also very 586 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 2: important in your concept of resilience. So tell me this, 587 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 2: h what commonality So you've worked with the sas you're 588 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:16,280 Speaker 2: also an org psyche and you work with organizations a lot. 589 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 2: What do you notice similarities and differences when it comes 590 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 2: to the topic of resilience between the essays and in 591 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 2: the bordroom marine corporations. 592 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 1: Do you know, as much as these environments appear to 593 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,359 Speaker 1: feel very different on the kind of outset, they're much 594 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 1: the same when it comes to driving and pig performance 595 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: and capacity for contribution. And I love nothing more. I 596 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 1: get to see these things globally and cross contextually. So 597 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: you know, from corporate space, yesdessays and extreme military context, 598 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: but also athletes and not for profits in between. And 599 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,760 Speaker 1: when I get to see that same model so opariety, 600 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,320 Speaker 1: that same kind of principle emerging action is when individuals 601 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: in this collective are very clear on who it is 602 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 1: that is standing there, holding the ground beneath the feat 603 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: and not precisely how they're going to use those capabilities 604 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: to serve their mission, which in and of itself actually 605 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: affords for awareness, belonging, curiosity, and drive. What I mean 606 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 1: by that is the best context that I've operated in, 607 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 1: and the best pivots we have made have been because 608 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: we are working under a sheared understanding of what matters most. 609 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: We understand who it is that we are, and we 610 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: go after that goal, finding thousand workabouts along the way 611 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: to achieve it. That's the beauty of it. And so 612 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: the parallels are much the same when you look at 613 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 1: it from this perspective, right being, redients are exactly the same. 614 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: You have really clear compelling mission, You have an understanding 615 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: of everyone who is standing there unapologetically. The way in 616 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,720 Speaker 1: which they assume this position isn't to follow a script, 617 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: but to do some version of service with their capability 618 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: to that cheered purpose and the capacity for curiosity, which 619 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: allows us to then look beyond the obvious break silos 620 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: and think about how we could do things even better. 621 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: That unrelenting pursuit of excellence that happens because they understand 622 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 1: who they are, they know those around them in the context. 623 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: They have profound sense of purpose within that is evolving 624 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,800 Speaker 1: as they engage with the challenge, and then the result emerges. 625 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: And I love nothing more than seeing these parallels over 626 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 1: and over and over again. I don't show up with 627 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: an ABCD script, you know. I wait to see what 628 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 1: the context needs, and in retrospect it always fits that 629 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 1: cadence for life, you know. 630 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 2: And I think a little bit that you said about 631 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 2: finding the worker rends in life, I would add to 632 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 2: that being fully engaged in the context of finding the 633 00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 2: worker rends in life, because that's where the beauty lies 634 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 2: for me, is he's actually getting fully immersed and engaged 635 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 2: in the ship as well as the lovely stuff and 636 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 2: finding that that meaning in suffering and drive, I think 637 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 2: is just so critical with all of this. 638 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't agree with 639 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: you more. It's in the contrasts. 640 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:28,240 Speaker 2: Right, do you know the one thing that I have noticed, 641 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 2: and this will this will will go to my last 642 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 2: question is because I've worked with military, done some of 643 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,439 Speaker 2: my studies with him with my pH d, I've also 644 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 2: worked a lot with corporates and I've worked with elite athletes, 645 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:48,959 Speaker 2: I find that there's one distinction. And I'm generalizing here, 646 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 2: but if you look at I'll take military and athletes 647 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 2: on one side and corporations on the other. The difference 648 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 2: when it comes to resilience is around focus on the 649 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 2: bodily stuff that in the essays the old thing. If 650 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 2: you're not eating, if you're not on watch or are engaged, 651 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 2: you should be eating or sleeping. Right. Athletes talk about recovery, 652 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,399 Speaker 2: whereas for for me, a lot of corporates, their recovery 653 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 2: is coming home with Friday night, exhausted with putting a 654 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 2: feed up and a bottle of wine and watching Netflix. 655 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 2: And I say to them, that's not recovery, that's relaxation. 656 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:33,400 Speaker 2: They are. It's very different gravy. And so my last 657 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:39,760 Speaker 2: question then is how important is the focus on the physiology. 658 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 2: I like to talk about psychophysiological resilience or hardiness. Where 659 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,240 Speaker 2: does a physiology come into this, and and and how 660 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,240 Speaker 2: do you stop drive turning into burnout? 661 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: Mm hmm, thank you for taking usdiah And and do 662 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: you know what uh? Earlier on when I was reflecting 663 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: on similarities, I'm only speaking of pig performing individuals and 664 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 1: teams here, right, I think great handling stuff, pushing yourself 665 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 1: to just a hard beat before you are in a 666 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: state of burnout is wildly responsible thing if we are 667 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: after good outcomes, right, that stuff you just highlighted, the 668 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:26,360 Speaker 1: baseline recovery is a non negotiable stuff. So many of 669 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: us are kidding ourselves that we can trick the system. 670 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: It doesn't work like that. So do you know the 671 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,680 Speaker 1: really confronting thing I'm trying to I'm trying to not 672 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: waste a minute trying to convince individuals who already know 673 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: how important this stuff is, of its importance, because no, 674 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: there is no sign on the wall or anyway in 675 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: our environment that doesn't tell us recovery is absolutely critical. 676 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,799 Speaker 1: Netflix and a bottle of wine. I don't even know 677 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: if it amounts to relaxation. It's probably some version of avoidance. 678 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,040 Speaker 1: If we are there, perhaps we should sneak in a 679 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 1: run beforehand. Or some sort of weightlifting exercise or something dynamic, 680 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 1: at least to get the system moving, because we won't 681 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 1: be reaching a state of relaxation when we are in 682 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 1: a state of avoidance. Right, too many words to say. 683 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 1: We know that it's not negotiable. There are no shortcuts 684 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,920 Speaker 1: in the game of life. Those things need to be 685 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 1: a part of the composition in order for us to 686 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 1: be able to think effectively. I cannot tell you right 687 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 1: so because I work in venture. Right so, some of 688 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,439 Speaker 1: the most exceptional and challenging individuals and teams I worked 689 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 1: with are in venture. They're not in the essays, and 690 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: the reason for it is that their mission stays on 691 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,479 Speaker 1: for eighteen months. We might think it's not life and death, 692 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 1: but for them it feels like it is. Right, it's 693 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,440 Speaker 1: a hugely challenging thing. It concerns the identity and a 694 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,200 Speaker 1: lifetime of work. So if you are in a state 695 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,360 Speaker 1: of law and you are kind of trekking along and 696 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 1: you're about to have your most brilliant idea, these moments 697 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,160 Speaker 1: are precious. They need to be contained. We need to 698 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,400 Speaker 1: allow ourselves to be there. We can't be in some 699 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,280 Speaker 1: version of rigidity that tells us, oh, look, it's eight o'clock. 700 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:09,759 Speaker 1: Stop thinking right now, right, But it's not designed for 701 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: us to be in that state forul prolonged periods of time. 702 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: I'm concerned that so many of us are deceiving ourselves 703 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,279 Speaker 1: to think that maybe tomorrow will be a better day 704 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 1: when we can integrate those basics. Maybe tomorrow never comes, 705 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 1: you know, right now, it's today. I want us to 706 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,520 Speaker 1: tempt ourselves in these things, even if it takes ten 707 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,879 Speaker 1: minutes here and there. We all know that the only 708 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 1: way to prove the difference that it makes is by 709 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:44,359 Speaker 1: experiencing it. So anyway, recovery critical and actually even before 710 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 1: we get there, building a really strong baseline so that 711 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,759 Speaker 1: recovery is something that happens in life as opposed to 712 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:53,799 Speaker 1: an exception to it. 713 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah, and if you think that you're going to 714 00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 2: your health when you retire, you are completely and utterly bonkers, 715 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,879 Speaker 2: because there are there are so many corporates that I 716 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 2: know that that is their mindset that I'm just going 717 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,160 Speaker 2: to work, work, work, work, and then when I retire, 718 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:21,000 Speaker 2: I'll switch over and start looking after my body. The 719 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,879 Speaker 2: horse is going to have bolted by then. But so look, 720 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,279 Speaker 2: they we do unfortunately need to wind this up. This 721 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,399 Speaker 2: has been an absolute tour of force on resilience. There's 722 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,200 Speaker 2: so there's so many bits that I've written down as 723 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:40,360 Speaker 2: little markers that that that could be a great little 724 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:45,839 Speaker 2: grab for social media, but that the I love the 725 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,920 Speaker 2: structure that you've put behind it through not just academic research, 726 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 2: but practical living and observation of others. Where can people 727 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,880 Speaker 2: go to find out more about you, to buy your book, 728 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:02,520 Speaker 2: to book you for corporate talks and what other services 729 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,880 Speaker 2: do you offer for people who've been listening to this 730 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:12,360 Speaker 2: and go on, I need my little dose of Alia Bodyeleva. Sorry, 731 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:13,880 Speaker 2: do you know what's interesting? 732 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 1: I've never promoted myself. I don't have a website, and 733 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,239 Speaker 1: yet people find me, which is so gay. 734 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:19,759 Speaker 2: You don't have a website. 735 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,359 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't have a website. I haven't 736 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,440 Speaker 1: promoted myself. Good news though I kind of. I am 737 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,719 Speaker 1: on LinkedIn, and I do have colleagues of mind that 738 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:32,239 Speaker 1: monitor that, and I'm genuinely quite keen to help a 739 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,960 Speaker 1: worthy mission. So the kinds of environments are work in 740 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,400 Speaker 1: a bit of a figure rate. So some of them 741 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: were individuals, some of them are teams, some of who 742 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 1: have a lot, some of them not so much. Some 743 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,440 Speaker 1: of the environments are working I pay to be a 744 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:49,799 Speaker 1: part of and so it's an interesting piece that. Yeah. 745 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,360 Speaker 1: But anyway, I am on LinkedIn. I can be fined 746 00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:57,560 Speaker 1: found there. I do have an amazing agent. It's part 747 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,000 Speaker 1: of Between two Beers b to be Speakers. 748 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 2: Yes, we can find you in book you as a 749 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 2: speaker between two Beers. Did you say, oh they are 750 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:15,239 Speaker 2: speaking bureau over in New Zealand they are. Yes, I've 751 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:20,399 Speaker 2: heard of these guys. Okay, So there's no websites. There's 752 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,840 Speaker 2: no website. However, you can go to the Resilience Toolkit 753 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:30,680 Speaker 2: on any good bookstore. But also people presumably can just 754 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,880 Speaker 2: connect with you. Well actually that's where I found you, 755 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 2: was on LinkedIn and through a connection with a young 756 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,840 Speaker 2: Northern irishman across the water, young Games, who we both 757 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:48,480 Speaker 2: know and so look, this has been awesome. So people 758 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,120 Speaker 2: can for corporations if they want to book you, just 759 00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,120 Speaker 2: go to Between two Beers and then they'll be able 760 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,680 Speaker 2: to book you to come in and talk to their organization, 761 00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:02,200 Speaker 2: because God, people need you and their organizations. But also 762 00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,320 Speaker 2: they can reach out to you separately on LinkedIn. 763 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:07,879 Speaker 1: Beautiful yes please and of. 764 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,160 Speaker 2: Course, if you're watching this and this is the book 765 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,239 Speaker 2: that you're after. If you're not watching, it's called The 766 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:17,879 Speaker 2: Resilience Toolkit, A proven four step process to unlock your 767 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:22,880 Speaker 2: true potential by doctor Alia Jaalova. 768 00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:27,360 Speaker 1: Nice correct, nicely, don Thank you so much. 769 00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,000 Speaker 2: Thank you. This has been absolutely awesome. Keep doing what 770 00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:32,399 Speaker 2: you're doing, as I'm sure you will. 771 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:33,879 Speaker 1: Thank you so so much,