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Speaker 1: Okay, read welcome, straight Talk.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, Thank.

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Speaker 1: You for wearing your ballgan today.

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Speaker 2: Hey, straight talk, I'm no angel, but.

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Speaker 1: I like it. I love it. It's awesome. Don't worry.

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Speaker 1: They can't sue me. They're can only sue me from

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Speaker 1: and you from here up. But we'll flash it you later,

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Speaker 1: so don't worry.

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Speaker 2: Having fun.

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Speaker 1: Already, engineer here an error. You're an aerospace engineer, correct,

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Speaker 1: but probably better known, well, probably maybe not better known,

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Speaker 1: but soon to be better known. As a word is

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Speaker 1: patissier batisseri. What was the French word for.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's chef petissier, chef bertissier. But I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't exactly call myself that. I spent a month in

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Speaker 2: a bou lingerie in Paris, which is certainly not long

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Speaker 2: enough from a training perspective to be formally classified as

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Speaker 2: that I learned just enough to give myself the confidence

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Speaker 2: to come back and open a business that specialized in

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Speaker 2: only croissants, which was also so not nearly enough. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think some people call me a pastry chef, but

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Speaker 2: I would not call myself that. You're definitely a founder, Yes,

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Speaker 2: definitely a founder.

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Speaker 1: You're a founder of a well known business, which I

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Speaker 1: don't tell me you've never had my mark. I am right.

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Speaker 1: I heard you because I've been down the other room

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Speaker 1: and I just heard you trying to sort something out

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Speaker 1: for cast Race Street. My building is right across the

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Speaker 1: road from there.

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Speaker 2: Perfect.

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Speaker 1: So my main office, our head office where all our

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Speaker 1: staff are not for this for another business, is in Chiffley. Okay, wow, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So we had a floora chiefly there so and of

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Speaker 1: course everyone in my building was extraordinarily excited when I hope,

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Speaker 1: hopefully I pronounce a word right because I only know

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Speaker 1: what to look at it from spelling.

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Speaker 2: But it's luna loon loon, so luna is the Italian

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Speaker 2: pronunciation and lone is the French pronunciation of the word moon.

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Speaker 1: Right, Okay, the word moon, since the word we'll come

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Speaker 1: back to that a moment. Like but it's a cross

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Speaker 1: crosshant shop, if I could say, and as plain as

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Speaker 1: Aussie language, I think that's perfect cross on shop. That's

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Speaker 1: actually what I call it.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm going down to the croissant shops.

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Speaker 1: And it's just around the but it's pretty bloody good.

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Speaker 1: I've had them and they're very good and I've taken

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Speaker 1: them home and I've actually lined up.

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Speaker 2: You've actually lined up, actually lined up impressed.

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Speaker 1: Not at the beginning. So when you first opened, there

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Speaker 1: was like mental lines going right up into the new

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Speaker 1: railway station there. I waited to start over. Time has

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Speaker 1: dropped off a little bit, but if you get at

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Speaker 1: a busy time, you still get on a decent line.

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Speaker 1: But I've worked out at the times of the day

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Speaker 1: when it's not as busy and there might only be

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Speaker 1: four or five people on the line, and then I

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Speaker 1: can just jump in.

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Speaker 2: I think for your sake, I would not mention those

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Speaker 2: times because they might not be so quiet after you

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Speaker 2: about them.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell them. I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: reveal my secrets. But I do really enjoy your exotic

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Speaker 1: cross once amazing. Thank you Exotic. But we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: a bit later, because at first I want to talk

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Speaker 1: to you about is Kate Reid, the aeronautical engineer you

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Speaker 1: know in my business, I have to if I just

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Speaker 1: might explain this to you, I have a young guy

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Speaker 1: when he's young, he's probably forty something, just had.

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Speaker 2: A kid young. I like that.

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Speaker 1: We'll go with that as relative. It's age a relative things.

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Speaker 1: So I found out about three years ago that he

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Speaker 1: was formerly an aeronautical engineer okay, and he's from South Astralia,

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Speaker 1: and that he would be my number one most successful

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Speaker 1: mortgage broker Australia by numbers of transactions by because you know,

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Speaker 1: he's lending into Soustralia. People borrow less moon in so Australia.

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Speaker 1: Therefore he doesn't lead as much into the toddle volume,

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Speaker 1: but interns of the numbers of transactions he does more.

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Speaker 1: And I once went to his office in Southstralia, should say,

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Speaker 1: and I said to him, Andy, can you explain to

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Speaker 1: me why he wrote so much business? I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to know. He's all he'sed to be an aeronautical engineer.

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Speaker 1: And he said to me, when I was doing that job,

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Speaker 1: he said, to look around the people in the room

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Speaker 1: with me, they're all much older to me. And he said,

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Speaker 1: I thought to myself, I don't want to be doing

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Speaker 1: this when I'm sixty or seventy or whatever. He said.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't think of anything worse. So I decided to

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Speaker 1: go on a mortge broke and said what I've done?

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Speaker 1: He said, I've broken up the process and remapped it

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Speaker 1: from the moment summarrings the phone to make an inquiry

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Speaker 1: about them all, which the moment the mortgage settles. And

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Speaker 1: so I've broken up into every single part and I've

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Speaker 1: now automated ninety percent of every one of those parts

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Speaker 1: and only ten percent of it does it require a

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Speaker 1: human And as a result of that, I've been able

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Speaker 1: to do I can process a greater percentage of my

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Speaker 1: inquiries because I've just got more hours to work with.

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Speaker 2: And I imagine also that small component that still requires

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Speaker 2: the human element, he can put more effort into that

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Speaker 2: one so that people still feel like they're getting that

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Speaker 2: human connection part does That's very smart. That's my next

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Speaker 2: career done.

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Speaker 1: So we then borrowed that. I said, can I borrow

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Speaker 1: your process? My point being is this aeronautical engineers engineers generally,

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Speaker 1: but aeronautical engineers are very good at steps in a process.

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Speaker 1: And I want to I would I want to talk

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Speaker 1: to you a moment about have you employed that engineering

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Speaker 1: learning process skill into your business to make your business successful?

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Speaker 1: Because your business is not just about cool, sexy looking

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Speaker 1: cross on Twitter are exotic looking and having all the

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Speaker 1: very good on photos and some of that, but it's

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Speaker 1: also about execution, about delivery. You've got to get the

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Speaker 1: shit out and getting but you've got to get these

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Speaker 1: things out. You've got to get a manufactured made vart

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Speaker 1: off a customer to buy. And I noticed your whole

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Speaker 1: shop is a process. It's a process going on. I

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Speaker 1: can see it from the back. I'm intrigued about that.

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Speaker 1: I will talk about that. But is the fact that

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Speaker 1: you were an error a autical engineer. Did that affect

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Speaker 1: you like it affected him? Like he got bored off

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Speaker 1: his head, had to do something different? Why did you

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Speaker 1: go from meronautical engineering into being founder of across On business.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny. No one's ever put it to me

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Speaker 2: quite like that. Did you get bored off your head?

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Speaker 2: I think you've maybe just gotten right to the heart

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Speaker 2: of it. When I was younger, my father loves cars.

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Speaker 2: He loves motorsport in particular, loves Formula one and F one.

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Speaker 2: For me, was this perfect opportunity to get to spend

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Speaker 2: time with my dad, you know, one on one time,

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Speaker 2: us hanging out, bonding over fast cars. But then I think,

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Speaker 2: as a little girl, as like you know, from my

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Speaker 2: earliest memories, I can remember sitting watching F one races

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Speaker 2: with him, you know the ones that travel around the

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Speaker 2: world with video them when I was really young, and

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Speaker 2: then we'd wait till the Monday night and watch them together.

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Speaker 2: And then when I got old enough, I was allowed

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Speaker 2: to stay up late on a Sunday night. And then

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Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety six, the Grand Prix moved from Adelaide

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Speaker 2: to Melbourne and for the first time I got to

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Speaker 2: witness it in person, and it was that defining moment

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Speaker 2: that made me think, I actually want my entire life

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Speaker 2: to be about these cars.

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Speaker 1: How old were you there?

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Speaker 2: Thirteen?

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Speaker 1: No, so I just stop there.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I can't imagine a third year old girl.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine a ten year old girl, six year

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Speaker 1: old girl watching these cars race around the joint, especially

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Speaker 1: if you watch you on television. Then at thirteen saying

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Speaker 1: this is where I want to be. That's amazing. It's

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Speaker 1: pretty crazy.

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Speaker 2: I think I've always been someone that when I find

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Speaker 2: the thing that like I'm obsessed about or passionate about,

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Speaker 2: I just lock onto it and then everything in my

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Speaker 2: life becomes about how to work towards that thing and

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Speaker 2: achieve the goal. And experiencing the cars in person for

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Speaker 2: the first time, I mean I'm sure you've been to

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Speaker 2: an F one race before.

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Speaker 1: I've been to Monte Color Grand Prix four times, You've been.

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Speaker 2: To Monaco four times.

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Speaker 1: In may Nico is.

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Speaker 2: My favorite, and I've been three times, so it's it's

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Speaker 2: unlike anything else, and especially Monaco. I mean, the cars

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Speaker 2: really shouldn't be allowed to race around that circuit. It's

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Speaker 2: by today's modern circuit standards. It's dangerou, especially.

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Speaker 1: When it comes up the hill, pass the the casino there.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, and then through the tunnel, Like, have an accident

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Speaker 2: in that tunnel, you're done. But I mean, it's it's

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Speaker 2: a spectacle. It feels like a feat of human engineering

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Speaker 2: that is beyond what we could have ever imagined. These

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Speaker 2: cars traveling so quickly on circuits that are narrow, I

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Speaker 2: mean three hundred kilometers an hour. It's wild. And when

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Speaker 2: you experience one in person, And when I was thirteen,

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Speaker 2: it was the V ten still and like that's the

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Speaker 2: sound of that car just rips through you. It's like

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Speaker 2: and I remember it. I could put myself back on

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Speaker 2: Brocki's Hill on that May that March day in nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety six, and I can remember what it was like

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Speaker 2: to still witness that, and for me, I thought that

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Speaker 2: engineering Formula one cars would be the most exciting thing

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Speaker 2: on the planet. Like, yeah, maybe working as an engineer

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Speaker 2: at an automotive company like Ford or Holden back in

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Speaker 2: the day, that wasn't for me. I knew that that

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Speaker 2: wasn't going to move at the pace that I wanted.

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Speaker 2: But working in F one sounded like you were working

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Speaker 2: at the edge of technology, creating things that might one

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Speaker 2: day cascade down into the automotive industry. Like I think

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Speaker 2: Williams created active suspension and now that's on every car

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Speaker 2: that you buy these days, but that's started in Formula one.

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Speaker 2: And I think because the turnover of the design is

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Speaker 2: so fast, I imagined these groups of like brilliant engineers

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Speaker 2: working in a really collaborative environment with a lot of resource,

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Speaker 2: a lot of money, the best equipment, wind tunnels, everything,

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Speaker 2: The whole thing sounded just fabulous, glamorous.

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Speaker 1: Is it glamorous or is it more intellectually exciting?

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Speaker 2: So the only experience I'd had with Formula one was

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Speaker 2: trackside as a little girl, because you know, you can't

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Speaker 2: get work experience in a Formula one team, So the

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Speaker 2: only interaction I'd had was the glamorous side. I knew

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Speaker 2: that engineering wasn't going to be trackside. I knew I

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Speaker 2: was going to be based in a factory, but I

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Speaker 2: imagined that being based in the factory would be some

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Speaker 2: sort of extrapolation of what you saw on the track.

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Speaker 2: I think, not glamorous, but definitely highly engaging from a

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Speaker 2: technical perspective, because.

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Speaker 1: The drivers are glamorous. That they are, I mean, they

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Speaker 1: really are. I was there in eighty six when I

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Speaker 1: met in Santa One in Monica.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, you saw ed and winning.

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Speaker 1: Actually, I tell you something. I had a bed on him.

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Speaker 1: So I went to a Calcutta and as my first

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Speaker 1: Calcutter i'd ever been to. I didn't go to the Calcutta,

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Speaker 1: but I invested in a group of guys who went

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Speaker 1: to the calcuttter in Monte Carlo. They're older guys. I

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Speaker 1: didn't get invited because I was pretty young, and but

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Speaker 1: they asked me would I like to put a thousand

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Speaker 1: bucks into the Calcutter. I didn't even know what a

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Speaker 1: Calcutta was, but they explained what it was to me.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what it is.

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Speaker 1: You go, you go along to a night. It's like

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Speaker 1: a big event. And syndicates of people can buy the driver.

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Speaker 1: So you you don't buy the driver, you can say,

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Speaker 1: well we'll we as Cindy will bid for that drive.

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Speaker 2: You bid on his success.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So you bid for the person who's

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Speaker 1: going to win the win the So it's not like

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Speaker 1: under the chair. I've been putting one thousand bucks onedon

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Speaker 1: Center where everyone could do that. You actually buy it,

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Speaker 1: and so you are the highest bit of buys iton Center.

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Speaker 1: And I was part of the syndica that they all

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Speaker 1: had more money than me, but I was part of

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Speaker 1: the part of it. I put a thousand bucks on it,

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Speaker 1: and I've got a very good return.

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Speaker 2: One thousand bucks in nineteen eighty six was of money

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: It was a lot of money. Yeah. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: you have to put it up front, which is great.

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Speaker 1: I was punding that. I was hoping you'd win or

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Speaker 1: second or third, Lise, I get some money back and

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Speaker 1: then I wouldn't have to pay. But we and he

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Speaker 1: did win. But I never forget it. I'll never forget

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Speaker 1: the glamour and excitement. And I was like eighty six,

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Speaker 1: so we're talking twenty forty years ago. I was thirty.

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Speaker 1: I was twenty nine, so I mean it was really

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Speaker 1: exciting for me, Like.

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Speaker 2: It was eating center like he is, he is not human,

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Speaker 2: He was a legend. He was he was a god

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Speaker 2: amongst men at that time in motor racing.

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Speaker 1: I think.

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Speaker 2: I think he was a very spiritual man as well.

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Speaker 2: And you like the way he's spoke about being in

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Speaker 2: the car. It was almost like he levitated out of

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Speaker 2: his body. And it's to watch him win a race

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Speaker 2: in Monaco would have been my all time dream.

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Speaker 1: It was. It was amazing. Was it was hot, it

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Speaker 1: was hot, the noise.

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Speaker 2: It's all the senses. You still remember senses.

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Speaker 1: I mean I could smell, I could smell the fuel

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Speaker 1: and rubber, and you're right, the speed which they got

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Speaker 1: around this kind of like you were, it was amazing,

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Speaker 1: Like you would think to yourself, that's not possible. How

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Speaker 1: could anyone sit monastering will and do that? Exactly crazy?

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Speaker 1: So you're right, all the senses a sort of going crazy.

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Speaker 2: Well, I love hearing you describe it now, like almost

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Speaker 2: forty years later and you're remembering the smelling, sound and everything.

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Speaker 2: It's yeah, And that's how I feel about my first

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six Grand Prix.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's and you're saying, as a young girl,

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Speaker 1: that was enough to sort of form in your mind

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Speaker 1: at least an academic career or a career in terms

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Speaker 1: of academia. So what you're going to study towards it

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Speaker 1: end up going to do couniversity.

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Speaker 2: It was done and dusted that day. So I was

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Speaker 2: a huge fan of Damon Hill, who raced for the

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Speaker 2: Williams F one team, and that year he won the

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Speaker 2: World championship and for Christmas, Mum and Dad bought me

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Speaker 2: a coffee table book celebrating his championship winning year. And

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Speaker 2: years later, when I was moving to the UK to

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Speaker 2: work for Williams, I pulled the book out of the

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Speaker 2: shelf and a note fell out of the front, and

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Speaker 2: I'd written a pledge to myself at that age saying

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Speaker 2: that by the age of twenty five I would be

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Speaker 2: offered a job by the Williams F one team. And

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Speaker 2: I got it when I was twenty three, So like

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Speaker 2: literally that moment I experienced it, I was dead set

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Speaker 2: that that was going to be my thing, and I

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Speaker 2: went along to the ri MIT career day. I thought

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Speaker 2: I'd study automotive engineering, but as you said earlier, it

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Speaker 2: really is. Aerospace is the pinnacle. You know, if you

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Speaker 2: can figure out how to get a rocket into space

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Speaker 2: and landed on the Moon, that's one of the most

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Speaker 2: technically difficult things to a problem to solve. So e

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Speaker 2: lecturer at THET day said to me, look, how about

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Speaker 2: you consider studying aerospace engineering because what you want to

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Speaker 2: get into is one of the hardest jobs in the world.

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Speaker 2: Because there are so few jobs, you need to give

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Speaker 2: yourself the best chance. So that's what set me down.

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Speaker 2: The trajectory of aerospace and.

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Speaker 1: When you went and did this at university and what

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Speaker 1: was the process of getting a job at Williams.

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Speaker 2: Huh, that's such a good question. I think a lot

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Speaker 2: of people out there, especially with the new interest in

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Speaker 2: F one ju to drive to survive. I get asked

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Speaker 2: so often, so how should I get a job in

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Speaker 2: Formula one? Literally you just have to do everything in

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Speaker 2: your power to make you stand out more than the

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Speaker 2: other thousands and thousands of people that want that job.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you think about it, in F one,

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Speaker 2: there was maybe fifteen aerodynamicists at Williams, and there are

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Speaker 2: at the moment ten teams on the grid. So you're

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Speaker 2: looking at one hundred and fifty jobs in the world

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Speaker 2: to be an aerodynamicist F one team, and there are

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Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands of aerospace engineers out there and many

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Speaker 2: of them probably who have that dream. So you need

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Speaker 2: to be loud. You need to get experience wherever you can.

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Speaker 2: Like I during university, I volunteered at a Formula three

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Speaker 2: team based in Melbourne, and that was tough. Like I'd

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Speaker 2: come from an all girls school, an all girls private

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Speaker 2: school in Melbourne, and then when I started studying aerospace engineering,

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Speaker 2: I was one of I think one of eight girls

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Speaker 2: in a course of one hundred and twenty guys. So

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Speaker 2: I went from all girls to all guys. And then

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Speaker 2: when I showed up at this F three team asking

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Speaker 2: to volunteer, these mechanics were they were like old school,

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Speaker 2: rough as guts, and they just saw this like wet

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Speaker 2: behind the years, private school educated girls studying aerospace engineering,

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Speaker 2: and like they literally ate me.

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Speaker 1: Alive, get the box of hammers and all that sort

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Speaker 1: of stuff. Oh, like they box sparks.

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Speaker 2: Like I think, like they bullied me and they teased

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Speaker 2: me and ribbed me, but I didn't care because I

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Speaker 2: knew that being around them, and I think that This

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Speaker 2: made me a bit more thick skinned as well. I

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Speaker 2: knew that being around them simply by osmosis. If I

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Speaker 2: just watched what they did and listened to their conversation,

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Speaker 2: I would learn. And years later, when I got the

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Speaker 2: job at Williams, I was living with one of the

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Speaker 2: race mechanics and one night I was speaking to.

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Speaker 1: Him about WIMS or yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he was my housemate, and I was telling him

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Speaker 2: about this time that I volunteered with the F three team,

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Speaker 2: and he said, you don't know how invaluable even just

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Speaker 2: being around those mechanics would be. Because if you design

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Speaker 2: a a component of a car theoretically as an engineer,

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Speaker 2: but in F one it takes you half an hour

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Speaker 2: to change the part, it's completely useless from a practical perspective,

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Speaker 2: Like in a race engineering moment, you have to be

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Speaker 2: able to change that part in ten seconds or you've

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Speaker 2: lost the race. And he said, like, they taught me

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Speaker 2: how to break down a gearbox and change suspension components,

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Speaker 2: and I learned so much practical hands on stuff from

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Speaker 2: them that I then took into my engineering Korea. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think that was one of the examples of me

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Speaker 2: maybe trying to set myself apart from everyone else who wanted.

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Speaker 1: Them and telling everyone about it though because you have

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Speaker 1: to talk about it, doesn't have to talk about it

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Speaker 1: and be prepared to prosecute it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, But how does a Philly daunting?

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Speaker 1: So Williams is in the UK. I don't know which

360
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Speaker 1: part of the UK, but London.

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Speaker 2: I was somewhere, I don't know where, southwest of London,

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Speaker 2: just near Oxford, Okay, so I think it's called the

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Speaker 2: Motorsport Valley. There's a lot of F one team's base there.

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Speaker 1: So you're here applying for the job.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're I'm writing off to every single F

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Speaker 2: one team And then I started to go down the list, like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: if I can't get a job in F one, maybe

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Speaker 2: I'll start in F two or F three or A

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Speaker 2: one was big at the time. I wrote to Lemon's

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Speaker 2: team's rally teams. I just wanted to get my foot

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Speaker 2: in the door. I mean, if you owned a motorsport

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00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,360
Speaker 2: team back in the mid two thousands, you probably got

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Speaker 2: a letter from me. And I got a lot of

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Speaker 2: silence and a couple of rejection letters. But then one

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Speaker 2: day I got an email from Williams from the team

376
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Speaker 2: that was my dream team to work for. And I mean,

377
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Speaker 2: I think this goes against my scientific engineering brain, but

378
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Speaker 2: I am a bit of a believer in fate and

379
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,679
Speaker 2: like for the one team to actually reply to me

380
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Speaker 2: to be the one that i'd written that note about

381
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Speaker 2: saying you're going to get a job with them.

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Speaker 1: Did you tell them that, yeah again in your application?

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Speaker 2: Actually no, not in my application, but maybe that would

384
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Speaker 2: have been.

385
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Speaker 1: A good idea there.

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Speaker 2: Well, they sent me an email saying we're actually recruiting

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Speaker 2: for junior aerodynamicists and we'd like to interview you. So

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Speaker 2: that was like, that's all I needed. I'm I think

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty compelling in an interview perspective, Like, once you

390
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Speaker 2: get your foot in the door, you can really let

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Speaker 2: your personality and your passion shine. And I knew that

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Speaker 2: if I could just get my foot in the door

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Speaker 2: and be interviewed by a team. I mean, I had

394
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Speaker 2: the aerospace engineering degree like everyone else. I'm sure other

395
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Speaker 2: people had experience working in volunteering with other teams. I'd

396
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Speaker 2: done my thesis on the study of the rear wing

397
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 2: of an F one car. I'd tried to do all

398
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Speaker 2: the right things, but once they talked to me. I

399
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,639
Speaker 2: was pretty sure I could convince them to hire me,

400
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Speaker 2: and they did.

401
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,040
Speaker 1: Have you always been like that though? In terms of personality, yes,

402
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 1: you're Is that a confidencing or is that a learned behavior?

403
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,320
Speaker 1: I thin give your success and reward.

404
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 2: Oh, it's definitely not a confidence thing. I think I

405
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,480
Speaker 2: would probably say that I've lived most of my life

406
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:39,399
Speaker 2: feeling not confident. Maybe it's I feel like I have

407
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:40,919
Speaker 2: have something to prove.

408
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,800
Speaker 1: Is it a performance? Then you turn it on?

409
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Speaker 2: I think, so, Oh gosh, these are good questions to

410
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,399
Speaker 2: backtrack right to when I was an infant. I was

411
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Speaker 2: diagnosed with very severe asthma when I was eighteen months old.

412
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Speaker 2: And you know, I've spoken to many psychologists over the years,

413
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 2: and there's some belief that as a very young child,

414
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,720
Speaker 2: not understanding why you're so unwell and having to fight

415
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,720
Speaker 2: for your life, that builds a level of resilience and

416
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,359
Speaker 2: determination in a kid from an early age. So I

417
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,080
Speaker 2: think maybe that had something to do with me feeling

418
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Speaker 2: like I kind of had to fight for my life

419
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Speaker 2: all the time. I think I'm going to think about that.

420
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Speaker 1: More, Yeah, because I mean, I mean, some people think that,

421
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Speaker 1: for example, someone like me they think, oh, with make's

422
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Speaker 1: natial interviewer. But I am actually this a performance for me, Like,

423
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 1: but I know how to perform. Yeah, but it's something

424
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Speaker 1: I've learned. I've learned how to do it. It's not

425
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Speaker 1: natural for me. This is not natural for me. Really,

426
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Speaker 1: you know, I'm socially awkward. I'm hopeless.

427
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 2: Okay, so I would not have guessed that.

428
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,200
Speaker 1: Put me in the room, the cameras and the lights

429
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,840
Speaker 1: and you can turn it on. I've learned how to

430
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,920
Speaker 1: turn it on. Yeah, over time and know I've done

431
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Speaker 1: two hundred episodes. So but in the beginning was a bit,

432
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Speaker 1: was a bit that wasn't anywhere you perhaps as.

433
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Speaker 2: Good someone sat here twelve hundred times opposite you. That's crazy.

434
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Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, Yeah, that's what we do a lot of

435
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Speaker 1: We do a lot of podcasts in this joint. So

436
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,640
Speaker 1: you're i'd imagine then once you get the as you said,

437
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:13,879
Speaker 1: you got your foot in the door, you're going to

438
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 1: nail it. You'll convince them. Whether it's a performance or

439
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 1: if it's learned behavior or it's natural, it doesn't really matter.

440
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 1: And I can sense that. And what what do you

441
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 1: think though, is the element that gets you over line?

442
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 1: Is that your knowledge of the topic, is your passion

443
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: for the topic, is your sort of sense of I

444
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 1: take passion. I don't believe in passion. I believe in obsession.

445
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no point being passionate.

446
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 1: Lots a bit of passionate about things, but it doesn't

447
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 1: need to success. You'd obsessedly I agree with that. Yeah,

448
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 1: it's because of bullshit. Otherwise, Yeah, oh really passionate.

449
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 2: You're passionate. It's a word that's thrown around a lot.

450
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 2: But if you're obsessed with something, it's almost like you're

451
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 2: admitting that you get consumed by it. It's got a

452
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 2: slight negative connotation, but like if you say you're obsessed

453
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,679
Speaker 2: with something, it's like I'm admitting I'm all in for this.

454
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 1: I'm all in. That's the word all in. All the

455
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 1: words all in? And is it that? Do you think

456
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 1: it's convinced them? Do they read that? Do you think

457
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 1: did they read that in you? When the Williams people interviewed.

458
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 2: You, I thought about this moment a lot. I was

459
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,120
Speaker 2: told when I started at Williams that every week, three

460
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:26,640
Speaker 2: thousand cvs land on the.

461
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 1: Desk well, which is huge.

462
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 2: So what made first of all mine stand out, And

463
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 2: I think being a girl would have made me stand

464
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 2: out because I was the only female in the entire

465
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 2: company working in a technical capacity, and it was a company.

466
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 2: At a company of five hundred people. There were women

467
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 2: working in marketing, hospitality, human resources, more of the support

468
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,239
Speaker 2: type roles, but from a technical perspective, I was the

469
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 2: only female, and I was the only female in the

470
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 2: entire aerodynamics facility the building. So maybe being a girl

471
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 2: made me stand out from the three thousand other people

472
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 2: that had sent their resumes in I in the interview,

473
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 2: and knowing that I'd get to this point, I can

474
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 2: be charismatic. I can show my obsession and my dedication

475
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 2: to something. And I had the I guess, the backup

476
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 2: to speak to, like the volunteering and everything else that

477
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 2: I'd done. But it was interesting when I got into

478
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,879
Speaker 2: the office. The one thing that was immediately obvious to

479
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 2: me was I was the loudest person in the office.

480
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 1: And I don't mean to volume sense, no, I.

481
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 2: Mean as in a communication sense. Almost everybody else in

482
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 2: that office was a pretty much a head down, work quietly,

483
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 2: stare at your computer for sixteen yeah, tell.

484
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 1: Me, okay, why is it? Engineers across the world like

485
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean it was aeronautical or medical engineering or

486
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 1: any other typ of engineering. I like that, what is that? Well,

487
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 1: and what's your observation. I'm not an engine but I've

488
00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 1: certainly seen it.

489
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 2: I think it's they don't become that when they become

490
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 2: an engineer. I think that personality trait is attracted to

491
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: engineering because it requires very quiet, focused work, long hours

492
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 2: in front of a computer without much human interaction. And

493
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 2: that was essentially my undoing.

494
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: I'm just say they're not collegiate. Ah, but you know,

495
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 1: not naturally collegiate. They just opened a little cell and

496
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: they're in there. Yeah.

497
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, it's And it's funny that you say that

498
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 2: because I worked for two Formula One teams. In the end,

499
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 2: I moved from Williams to what's now the Aston Martin team,

500
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 2: but it was called Spiker when I worked for them,

501
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 2: and my observation was, instead of working together as a

502
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,959
Speaker 2: team because both both the teams weren't performing well at

503
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 2: the time.

504
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 1: They were themselves teams.

505
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, ironically, because they weren't performing well at the time.

506
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: There was a lot of pressure on all of us

507
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 2: to make the car better for it to perform and

508
00:24:55,480 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 2: it became kind of a like a competition for could

509
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 2: prove that they were the most dedicated to the company.

510
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 2: So instead of us all coming together and really collectively

511
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 2: solving this problem, you'd look around the office and you'd

512
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 2: be like, if I wait longer than him, and him

513
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 2: and him all look like I'm more dedicated to solving

514
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 2: this problem. And we became competitive amongst ourselves rather than

515
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 2: competitive together against the other teams. And no one in

516
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 2: a leadership role ever really swooped that up and dealt

517
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 2: with it and acknowledged that it was creating a negative

518
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 2: culture in the office.

519
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: Because I am going to be going to talk about

520
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: lunars in a moment. I like the Italian version, but anyway,

521
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: but like, I'm just wondering if you've taken any of

522
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: those experiences out and put it into your own business.

523
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: So I'm apart from coming up with a great idea,

524
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: Execution is what you're talking about. When it comes to teams.

525
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: You know, executing it to be the best, but that

526
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: does take teamwork and everyone but he's going to be

527
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:01,880
Speaker 1: on the same page. You've got to have the same

528
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: architecture and sure everyone have a different part or a

529
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: different role, but you've got to be collegiate to make

530
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: it happen.

531
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 2: I think also an experience that I had in both

532
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 2: teams was that I came in at an entry level.

533
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 2: I mean, even though I was I was one of

534
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 2: fifteen aerodynamicists at Williams. I was classified as a junior aerodynamicist,

535
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 2: and I had ideas. I mean, I was obviously brand

536
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 2: new to that level of the industry. But no matter

537
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 2: how old we are or what experience we have, if

538
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 2: we've got an idea, if that's not heard, that might

539
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 2: be shockingly the one idea that makes the car perform better.

540
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 2: But as a junior aerodynamicist, I wasn't allowed to have ideas.

541
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: Did you then? Notwithstanding that, did you bug you know,

542
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: your direct report and say, look, I just thought I

543
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: worked on this the other night and I don't know what.

544
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 2: But I didn't have time to It got so flat

545
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 2: out like all you were. My role was modeling, like

546
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 2: three D computer ator design, modeling components that my senior

547
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 2: aerodynamatist believed we should be testing, and that probably came

548
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: down from the chief aerodynamicist, and maybe that was from

549
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: the technical director, but whatever, that cascade of level of

550
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: management was I would spend up to sixteen hours a

551
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 2: day just trying to keep up with modeling the components

552
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: that someone had told me I should model. There was

553
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 2: only one person when I was working at Williams, a

554
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 2: guy called Frank Deerney, who almost started at Williams at

555
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 2: the same time that Sir Frank founded the team, so

556
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 2: it was the two francs. Frank Deerney is a mastermind

557
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 2: in like he's a legend in Formula one from a

558
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 2: technical perspective, like he was one of the people that

559
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 2: introduced wind tunnel testing to Formula one. But by the

560
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 2: time I was working at Williams, he'd been reintroduced into

561
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 2: the team more as a role model and someone that

562
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 2: would walk around the offices and maybe he was the

563
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 2: only person that was trying to make the team more collegiate.

564
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 2: And I'd love it when he came into the office

565
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 2: because he actually wanted to have a qualitative chat about

566
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 2: what was going on, and he'd come into our little

567
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 2: cubicle and he believed and I actually think that I

568
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 2: think it's the Renault team of committed to or sorry

569
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 2: Alpine have done it this year, which is bold and

570
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: it'd be challenging from a financial perspective. But Frank Derney

571
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 2: believed that in two thousand and six Williams should just

572
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: scrap the entire season because we weren't going to get

573
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 2: enough better to be like cham to be competitive. He

574
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 2: thought we should scrap the entire season and then put

575
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 2: all the team's effort on designing the two thousand and

576
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 2: seven car to have a championship winning car. And that

577
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 2: probably would have worked. But how do you explain that

578
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 2: to all the sponsors on the two thousand and six.

579
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: I would give their name on the car, So, yeah.

580
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: They don't want to be at the back of the grid,

581
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 2: knowing that everyone at Williams has absolutely given up on

582
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 2: the car that their name is on for it to

583
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 2: sit at the back of the grid. But yeah, Frank

584
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 2: Deurney had maybe more of a a nebulous view on

585
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 2: we need to improve this car and the way that

586
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 2: we're doing it right now, not operating together as a

587
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 2: team and just chipping away at little things that may

588
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: or may not help, it's not really getting us anywhere.

589
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: If you look back on that period in your let's

590
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,719
Speaker 1: call it your career period or growth period, what are

591
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: some of the things you learned from that that you've

592
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: taken into your new business so much.

593
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 2: I think we haven't really gotten into it. But staying

594
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 2: in Formula one became incredibly bad from my mental health

595
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: and then my health. Ah, I do really want to

596
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 2: come back to your question about how I've employed my

597
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 2: learnings from F one in.

598
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: Lauckon when we talk about a learning a bit more.

599
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: Just just talk about what was happening though.

600
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Perfect. So I was at Williams for about a

601
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 2: year and pretty early on twenty three. Yeah, pretty early

602
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 2: on I acknowledged that, to quote you, I was bort

603
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:14,959
Speaker 2: out of my mind. It was so unstimulating in a

604
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 2: way that I was so shocked that, like I assumed

605
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: that it was going to be, as I said this,

606
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 2: like brilliant collaborative group of minds solving big problems in

607
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 2: an exciting way with a big budget, and like that

608
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 2: could have been really exciting. And maybe the teams that

609
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 2: were winning Renout was winning that year, and because they

610
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: were the leading team with all the exciting ideas, it

611
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 2: might have been a different experience if I'd ended up

612
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: in that team, but I didn't, and that, like Williams

613
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 2: wasn't a bad company to work for I just arrived

614
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: at the team at a time where it really didn't

615
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 2: suit my personality and I needed something that stimulated me more.

616
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 2: And I was sitting at a computer without engagement with

617
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: my brilliant teammates solving big problems in a really fun

618
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: and exciting way. I was staring at computer screen for

619
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 2: sixteen hours a day designing ideas that weren't my ideas.

620
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 2: And another team approached me and tried to head hunt me,

621
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 2: and I ended up confiding in of one of my

622
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: teammates and at Williams. Yes, he'd worked for this other

623
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 2: team at the start of his career, and he said,

624
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: look the experience I had there as a junior aerodynamicist.

625
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: They're a smaller team with lesser budgets, so you're more responsible.

626
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 2: You're responsible for a bigger area of things, and it

627
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: might be good for you from a learning perspective, But

628
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 2: by the time I got to that team, they were

629
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: performing even worse than Williams, and the culture in the

630
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 2: office was shocking. And it was really at that point

631
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: where you know, something that I've been working toward at

632
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: least since thirteen, if not having that obsession for earlier

633
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 2: than that, I'd defined myself by Formula one, like that

634
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: was my identity, and it was going I wanted to

635
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: be the first female technical director of an F one team,

636
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 2: and I'd planned out my entire career and my retirement

637
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 2: and I was going to be this incredible person to

638
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 2: change Formula one and it wasn't working out. Like do

639
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 2: you serve yourself for disappointment one hundred percent? That sums

640
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 2: it up. So I've defined myself. I've moved myself to

641
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 2: the other side of the world, away from the country.

642
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 2: I love the city, I love my family, my friends,

643
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 2: and I'm in a job sacrifice. Yeah, and I'm in

644
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 2: a job that ultimately I start to hate. But letting

645
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 2: go of that means letting go of the thing that

646
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 2: defines me and letting go of my purpose for.

647
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: Living full conflict, full conflict.

648
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: So I stick it out, and I stick it out,

649
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 2: and then I end up moving into a Formula one

650
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: marketing role, which was kind of like my last gasp,

651
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 2: like my last hope in this And by then depression

652
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 2: had already sunk in an anxiety. I was having panic attacks,

653
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 2: but neither of them were diagnosed, and I just carried on.

654
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 2: And then eventually I like, and I think this goes

655
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 2: back to obsession rather than passion, which is another example

656
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: of how I'm an obsessive person. Having all of these

657
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 2: big things out of control in my life. Automatically, I

658
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 2: started to grab for the things that I could control

659
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 2: in my life, and that's what I ate and how

660
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 2: much exercise I did. And so the depression and anxiety

661
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 2: morphed into anorexia and I became incredibly unwell so and.

662
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: In terms of food and training, yeah, overtrain, overrate, overtrain, underate.

663
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 2: Like you're talking to an aerospace engineer. I had crazy spreadsheets.

664
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: I would weigh every morsel of food that I ate.

665
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,239
Speaker 2: I had websites that i'd access to then calculate how

666
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 2: many calories I'd record that. I'd then record, you know,

667
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: how much exercise I'd done. I'd calculate, if I'm running

668
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 2: at this pace, how many calories will that burn. I

669
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 2: made sure that every day I had a deficit, like

670
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 2: I was essentially tracking my body like you would look

671
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 2: at the data on a Formula one car and I

672
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 2: was getting results because calorie.

673
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: Debta rewards well, results rewards you, so you got so

674
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: I got something good out of that without even knowing

675
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 1: about it, yeap.

676
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 2: And like a result is my goal for today is

677
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 2: to be lighter on the scales tomorrow, and so if

678
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: I do X, Y and Z, that should happen. The

679
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 2: thing about anorexia is, and I guess our bodies like

680
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 2: you can't account for things like water retention or a

681
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 2: whole lot like you know, with females, you cycle like

682
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 2: a whole lot of stuff. And so sometimes you do

683
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 2: exactly what you did the day before, and you'd stand

684
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 2: on the scales and you were a bit heavier. But

685
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 2: because I descended below a weight where really you can

686
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 2: think rationally, and also I had depression and anxiety. Seeing

687
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 2: that number higher, to my engineering mind made no sense

688
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 2: and it would send me into a tail spin of

689
00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 2: like panic and it was. It was terrible.

690
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: I understand. I don't understand to that extent, but I

691
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: do understand obsession. You're talking to a person who's still

692
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: plots on a spreadsheet. What time the sun? The sun

693
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: doesn't rise, but let's call it sunrise, you know, whereas

694
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: on the horizon halfway between half below you know what

695
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: what I still does that I still do it. I

696
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: don't do sunrise and sunset anymore, I just do sunrise.

697
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: I love that, but but a I can do it

698
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: for me. But so I have to tell you I

699
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 1: used to spreadsheet that stuff.

700
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 2: So in my brand new memoir Destination Moon, I write

701
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 2: when I'm in Paris about the light in Paris being unbeloved, different.

702
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 2: And because I was by this stage pursuing my baking career,

703
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 2: I was working at a bou lingerie and I would

704
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 2: walk to work as the sun was rising, and as

705
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 2: I was writing Destination, which is that day.

706
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: Every day changed by the way, yes, thirty thirty five

707
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: second change each day, but it doesn't matter. Go on.

708
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 2: So I wanted to know the eggs like it's something

709
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 2: like eighteen degrees when the sun reaches like eighteen degrees

710
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 2: above the horizon is classified exact sunrise.

711
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: As opposed to the first light. There's a big difference.

712
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 2: Because yeah, yeah, yeah, So I actually remember I was

713
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 2: sitting in my little village in Tuscany writing the book.

714
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 2: I'm like, I want to know what the exact degree

715
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 2: of sunrise is. So I love the fact that you

716
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 2: PLoP that.

717
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: I love that, but I use AI now, okay, because

718
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: it's much easier than it was. Just I don't have

719
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: to go and actually put it on a spreadsheet, but

720
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: and I actually do things to that, to that to

721
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 1: that rhythm. What do you do to that rhythm, Well, exercise, wake,

722
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: wake and exercise. So like dallat size, darlote saving foks

723
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: me up a bite. So this week I'm a little

724
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: bit all over the shop. But because we're recording this

725
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 1: during the daylight saving, we first week saving. But I

726
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: tried to expose myself to the first light because I

727
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: you know, I quite like the fact that the distribution

728
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: of light, particularly one particular part of the light which

729
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: is not visible to the eye, but it's six hundred

730
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 1: and fifty nanometers, which is the back part of your eyes.

731
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,800
Speaker 1: The retina actually converts that light energy of those photons

732
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 1: into a certain chemical in your body, and it gives

733
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: you a certain feeling and it's very good for your

734
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: health mental health. Especially.

735
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: I've been to Gwinana on the Gold Coast and every

736
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 2: morning you go out in time for sunrise, so your

737
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 2: eyes can look unfiltered at the sun. Because they never

738
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 2: described that to me. But it's a lovely feelings.

739
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 1: About the distribution of light. So the ultra violet rays

740
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: which sit down the other end of the spectrum, compared

741
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: to the red rays which are down the shorter, the

742
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:50,479
Speaker 1: shorter end.

743
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 2: Of the spectrum, so these a longer race, so they're shorter.

744
00:37:53,680 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: So there's six fifty meters, which is six and fifty

745
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: billionths of a meter. It's not very big. But the

746
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,399
Speaker 1: ultra vile rays are much longer. They're twelve hundred there,

747
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: and they're more They're much more distributed at that time

748
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: of day because of the because of the axis of

749
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: the Earth, and it's a bit like if I shine

750
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: a torch on a on water, it spreads quite broadly.

751
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: And that's what happens at first, not a first light

752
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: at sunrise. I actually all sunrise because sun never rises,

753
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: by the way.

754
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 2: But I have the most random thing to tell you,

755
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 2: But I think you'll be interested in this. But this obsession,

756
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 2: by the way, yeah, another obsession. Another thing that I

757
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 2: write about is for three years in a row, I

758
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 2: was part of the World Solar Challenge and it wasn't

759
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 2: with the Australian team. The Dutch team from tu Delft

760
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 2: reached out to ask me to be on their support

761
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 2: crew and the first year that I was on the

762
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 2: support crew, they won, so it's a race that traverses

763
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 2: Australia from Darwin to Adelaide, and they smashed the record.

764
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 2: But they had read designed solar cells. So classically solar

765
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 2: cells are pyramid shaped and to get the maximum energy

766
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: from the sun, the sun had to be hitting it

767
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 2: perpendicular to the surface of the pyramid, and they designed

768
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 2: curved solar cells, so no matter what angle the ray

769
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 2: of light.

770
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: Was endicular, there was always eight parts of this perpendicular.

771
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 2: Very clever.

772
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting. Why did they think about doing one

773
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,959
Speaker 1: that elevated or changed Maybe maybe because it's used power

774
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 1: to do that, but anyway, so that it's just move beyond. Sorry,

775
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: that was such a deviation obsessed Yeah, right, and the

776
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 1: obsession with your weight and was it about look or

777
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 1: just or was it just was it just about the measurements?

778
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 2: It was about the number the measurements.

779
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's very much an engineering trait by the way,

780
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: you know, because engineering is very much about measurement and geometry.

781
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,720
Speaker 1: But measurement and geometry.

782
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 2: They sort of go together, but it's about measurable progress,

783
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 2: which is one of my favorite things, like the idea

784
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 2: of getting even one percent better every day. If you're

785
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 2: like edging towards perfection. While you'll never get there, it's

786
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 2: it's still measurable progress, and an eating disorder tracks measurable progress.

787
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so how did you get out of that disorder?

788
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 1: So what did you do?

789
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 2: So I came home Mum, Dad, No, I I got

790
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: so sick in the UK.

791
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: What's a sickness? Like, well, what happens? I mean, obviously

792
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: you lose a lot of weight, but what what is

793
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: the sickness? What are the symptoms?

794
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 2: So, first of all, anorexia has the highest mortality rate

795
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 2: of any mental illness. It's not only like as you're

796
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 2: starving your body, you're obviously restricting nutrients to all your

797
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 2: internal main organs. But then the flip side of that

798
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 2: is suicide and it's a less like it's a lesser

799
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 2: known thing that anorexia is the worst of the mental illnesses.

800
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 2: From that perspective, symptoms are.

801
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: Really feel sick and no energy.

802
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 2: No energy, very sleepy, irritable mood like huge mood swings

803
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: forgetfull foggy. From a physical perspective, like it was the

804
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 2: winter in the UK when it all started, and I

805
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 2: just like stopped having feeling in my extremities my hands

806
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: and feet. My blood pressure went very low, my pulse

807
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 2: went very low, my hair started to thin out. When

808
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 2: I got really really bad, my skin got bad. And

809
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 2: I spoke to my doctor about that, and she said,

810
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 2: the only job your skin needs to do right now

811
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 2: is to hold everything together. It doesn't need to look good.

812
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,720
Speaker 2: So it's just using the nutrients to like actually stay together.

813
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 2: It's an is it insiduous? Is that the right way?

814
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 2: It's an insidious disease. And all of this started to

815
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 2: happen to me when I was in the UK.

816
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 1: How are you now? Ah? Thirty?

817
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 2: Then No, I'd been in the UK for about three years,

818
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 2: so twenty six twenty seven. It got to the point

819
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,399
Speaker 2: where my dad actually flew to the UK and brought

820
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 2: me home. And I first thought, I think we all

821
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 2: first thought that, you know, get me home. Feed I

822
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: didn't think this, I have to be clear. I think

823
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 2: everyone thought we'd get home, feeder up, feeder up, and

824
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 2: then she'll be okay. But food is only a symptom

825
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 2: that the issue is why did you start doing this?

826
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 2: And I think I understood that, like if one had

827
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 2: occupied this area of my brain that requires obsession, and

828
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 2: then When I let go of that, I just it

829
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 2: allowed the eating to disorder to just take over my brain.

830
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 2: And until I found another obsession to take its place,

831
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 2: I was probably going to die. I made this realization yesterday, actually,

832
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 2: that it was a ticking time bomb like I needed

833
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: to find I was going to keep losing weight, and

834
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 2: you know, either, I mean I did have moments where

835
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 2: I had suicidal thoughts. I've obviously never acted on it,

836
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 2: but and you know, by bone density wasn't very good.

837
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 2: Something was going to go wrong, so I needed to

838
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 2: find something before anorexiaor one. But the ironic thing, you

839
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 2: knew that I knew that, well, maybe subconsciously, I knew

840
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 2: that I was desperately seeking a new passion because it's

841
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 2: not a good feeling to be caught up in an

842
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 2: eating disorder. It's you know, it felt good to be

843
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 2: working towards this thing with Formula one. And although I

844
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 2: was trapped in the eating disorder and controlled by it,

845
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 2: it didn't make me feel happy or good. But the

846
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 2: ironic thing about an eating disorder is that all you

847
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 2: can think about all days food because you're starving your body,

848
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 2: and so every part of your body is sending signals

849
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 2: to your brain telling you to fuel it. And you

850
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 2: don't dream about boring food or like healthy food. You

851
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,240
Speaker 2: dream about the thing that you really really love eating.

852
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 2: And my whole life, I've really loved baked goods.

853
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: So as in bread and cross ons and.

854
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 2: As in all of it, cakes, scones, biscuits. Like Mum

855
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 2: was a great baker when I was growing up, and

856
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 2: we'd come home from school and she'd always make something

857
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:14,320
Speaker 2: beautiful for afternoon.

858
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: At the moment I'm actually pretty hungry. You just have

859
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: to get a cart race not far from you.

860
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 2: So yeah, Anyway, I think it sort of started this

861
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 2: obsession with baking myself when I was still living in

862
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 2: the UK, desperately unhappy at work, and I'd come home

863
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 2: from a really long day at work and I would,

864
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 2: you know, bake a brownie or a cake. And it's

865
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 2: when you think about baking compared to cooking, Baking is

866
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 2: very scientific. You know, you bring you have to weigh

867
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 2: out your ingredients perfectly, and then you have to follow

868
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 2: a method to the letter about how you incorporate the

869
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 2: ingredients and it relies on you know, temperature in an

870
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 2: oven and airflow exactly, and so for me, I'd get

871
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 2: home and I could live vicariously through the process of

872
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 2: bay without eating it. And then I'd take it into

873
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 2: work the following day and we'd know pause mid morning,

874
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 2: and everyone would gather around and we'd cut it up

875
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 2: and I wouldn't eat it, but I would live vicariously

876
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 2: through seeing how happy it made everyone else. And So

877
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 2: I came back to Australia like a twig, but with

878
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 2: this dream that maybe I wanted to pursue baking as

879
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 2: a career.

880
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: You already had that thought.

881
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the day I landed back in Australia at

882
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 2: like so unwell, I had an interview with a bakery

883
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 2: in Melbourne to just work as a counterhand. Like I'd

884
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 2: gone from being an aerospace engineer at a Formula One

885
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 2: team to like serving people at a local bakery in Melbourne.

886
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: And how long did it take you before you worked out?

887
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: You started thinking to yourself, I can change this process.

888
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 2: I can change the anorexia.

889
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 1: No, no, I can change the process of the bakery.

890
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 2: Oh with croissants.

891
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,399
Speaker 1: Well, whatever you were doing working in this bakery, did

892
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: you I know people like similar to yourself.

893
00:45:58,080 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 2: Mark, I'm going to send you a copy of my

894
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 2: book after you cannot wait to change the process and

895
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 2: improve it.

896
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, faster, more efficient, more output, more productivity, better

897
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: take whatever.

898
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 2: So I was forty kilos at this point, I'm assuming

899
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 2: you understand bm my bam, I was like thirteen. Wow,

900
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 2: I for such an intelligent person, like I would cross

901
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 2: roads and like not even look left or right. I

902
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 2: would just Dad said there were several times where you

903
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,439
Speaker 2: nearly just got cleaned up by a car. It would

904
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 2: terrify him when I'd go out for a walk. I

905
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 2: don't think I was thinking about improving the process at

906
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 2: this stage yet. This was like ground zero recovery.

907
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: So the bottom about as low as you can.

908
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 2: Get, yeap, And it, honestly, it got a bit worse

909
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 2: before it started to get better. I think full recovery

910
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 2: back to a healthy weight where I could operate in

911
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:56,720
Speaker 2: life again was probably about five years.

912
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: When you say your mean function.

913
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and functioning like a high performing way because for me,

914
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 2: there's no other there's no other way. So I'm going

915
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 2: to tell you a quick story to explain to the

916
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 2: point where I started to see opportunity for improvement in

917
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 2: an existing industry. I'd borrowed this book from the library

918
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 2: about Paris potisseries.

919
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 1: Got at home, White Parises.

920
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,879
Speaker 2: Well, I was baking. I talked myself into a job

921
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 2: at this beautiful local cafe to do their baking every morning.

922
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 2: But we were doing pretty simple stuff like biscuits and cakes,

923
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 2: and while it was fun, I knew that my brain

924
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 2: needed something more challenging to feel really fulfilled with what

925
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 2: I was doing. And I was starting to research French

926
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 2: pastry a bit more because it's highly technical. So I

927
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 2: borrowed this book about French partisseries. Got at home, sat

928
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,439
Speaker 2: on the floor, flipped the book open randomly, and there's

929
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 2: this beautiful, zoomed in double page photo of Panoshchokola stacked

930
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 2: up on a counter. And I was so wowed and

931
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 2: enamored by this photo that I walked back up to

932
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 2: the shops where the library was, but into the flight

933
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 2: center and I booked myself a ticket to Paris.

934
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 1: It sounds like you're going to the next version of Williams.

935
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: I was formula one it literally and in terms of yeah,

936
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: that's exactly what it was.

937
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 2: So I went to Paris, and on my last day

938
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 2: in Paris, I went to the boul Lingerie where the

939
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 2: photo had been taken and it's like it's a pastry wonderland.

940
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 2: It's one of the most beautiful places in Paris, definitely

941
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 2: one of the best croissants. I was hypnotized by the experience,

942
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 2: and the following day I sent an email. Like I

943
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 2: did with the F one teams, I sent an email

944
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 2: to the owner of the Boull Lingerie asking if he

945
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,240
Speaker 2: would take me on as an apprentice, just so bold

946
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 2: now thinking about it like this like your hand, yeah chance,

947
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 2: Like if you don't ask, you don't get So he

948
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 2: replied to me within an hour and said, well, yeah,

949
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 2: he's like I wouldn't normally because you don't speak French,

950
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 2: you have no experience, like I don't even know if

951
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 2: you've got a visa everything. But he said, for some reason,

952
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 2: I can see the same passion and motivation in you

953
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 2: that drives me. So yes, when would you like to start?

954
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 2: So I get this like I get the Williams F

955
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 2: one version of the bakery offer. And a few months

956
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 2: later I moved back to Paris and we initially agreed

957
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 2: to do a one month stars which would I guess

958
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 2: assess my level of viability longer term in the business.

959
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 2: And suddenly I find myself in the Formula one kitchen

960
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 2: of the baking world. Like this bakery was so highly technical.

961
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:39,280
Speaker 2: They had this huge marble bench on the first floor

962
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 2: that was like chilled from beneath with the fridges, so

963
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 2: the bench was already cool. When you roll out the pastry.

964
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 2: It had blast chillers and this like laminator that looked

965
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,240
Speaker 2: like the Ferrari of the Laminador world. And it was amazing.

966
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 2: And I get to work in this place and suddenly

967
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 2: I'm making pastry that's so highly technical. It's three days

968
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 2: to make it from start to finish. And now my

969
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 2: weight's starting to come up a little bit. I'm starting

970
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 2: to regain the ability of like rational and critical thought.

971
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 2: And again, kind of like those mechanics with the Formula

972
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 2: three team, I wasn't allowed to do a lot, but

973
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 2: I was allowed to observe, and I watched Sebastian, the

974
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 2: head chef, and I was thinking, like, why did you

975
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,399
Speaker 2: do it like that? Because I think it could be

976
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 2: better or more perfect, or more accurate or faster if

977
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 2: you did it like that. So this is where the

978
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 2: critical thinking really starts to come to think. Yeah, so

979
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 2: I came back to Australia. My money was running out.

980
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 2: A stage is an unpaid internship, and you can't really

981
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 2: live in Paris with no money. And I came back

982
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: to Melbourne with the view to maybe carrying on my

983
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 2: education in croissants in a bakery in Melbourne. And so

984
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 2: I started this obsessive tour around Melbourne's bakeries to try

985
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 2: and find a croissant that was anywhere near as good

986
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 2: as what we'd been making in Paris. And it just

987
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 2: didn't exist. And so then I had this light bulb moment, Well,

988
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,439
Speaker 2: I know everything there is to know about croissants after

989
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,760
Speaker 2: my one month in Paris, so maybe I'll start the business.

990
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:04,720
Speaker 2: So lun was born.

991
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: So what what? Just what is it about? Like you

992
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 1: see all sorts of I've seen all sorts of cross ons,

993
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: and I do love cross ons when I've had them

994
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 1: in France, but I ordinarily wouldn't buy him here, but

995
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 1: I have bought your ones. What is it? What? What

996
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: is what is the what is it? The MESA cross

997
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 1: on really good?

998
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 2: I love that you asked that because I'm really onto

999
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 2: my hot topic now. I feel like the first time

1000
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 2: I had a cross on in Paris, I had this experience,

1001
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 2: and it formed the blueprint for me of what a

1002
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: truly exceptional croissant should be.

1003
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: This is this is just a playing cross on.

1004
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 2: This is just a traditional croissant.

1005
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 1: Nothing on top like you guys do no, but like.

1006
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 2: The traditional loon croissant is my favorite anyway, I think

1007
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 2: it's also the foundation of every product on our council

1008
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 2: g Og.

1009
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:55,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1010
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 2: So this first cross on I had in Paris, which

1011
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 2: wasn't actually from the place that I did the Stars at,

1012
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 2: it was relatively fresh out of the oven, like when

1013
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 2: I picked up the bag and they gave it to me,

1014
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 2: the bag was still warm, and then when I opened

1015
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 2: the bag there was just this overwhelming scent of beautiful

1016
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 2: cultured butter, like butter like I'd never experienced with a

1017
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 2: croissant before. So the products was literally a celebration of

1018
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:26,359
Speaker 2: the butter that it had been made with. And it

1019
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 2: was quite big, but it was the bag was really light.

1020
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 2: I'm like, this is a big pastry, but it feels

1021
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:33,359
Speaker 2: quite light and you take a bite into it and

1022
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 2: the outer layer shatters and it doesn't It's not tiny

1023
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 2: little flakes. It's like beautiful, big curved shards of like

1024
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: crunchy buttery pastry. But then the internals of it are

1025
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 2: so light that it's like butter air as well as layers.

1026
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 2: It's like more air than it is dough. And it's

1027
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 2: just this thing of beauty that like you finish it

1028
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 2: and you don't feel full, but you feel so perfectly

1029
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 2: satisfied by this perfect thing that you've eaten. That to

1030
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 2: me is a perfect cross on.

1031
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 1: And when you say butter, because it's funny people talk

1032
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 1: to me. You were talking. You just mentioned then the

1033
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: experience you had eating this cross on and I immediately

1034
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:18,839
Speaker 1: were all the same in terms of memory, especially when

1035
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: it comes to food. I remember once my family's Greek.

1036
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,839
Speaker 1: Once I was in Greece is like a lot, like

1037
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: a million years ago. I was twenty five, so that's

1038
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 1: how long ago it was. Was it was forty five

1039
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 1: years ago. So I was in and they had a

1040
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 1: little bakery. It didn't make crossants, but they make it.

1041
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 2: But Greek bakery's amazing.

1042
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 1: And it's on the island of Idra, which is very

1043
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,240
Speaker 1: close to the mainland, and it's not there any that.

1044
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: The heart is there, but the baker's not there anymore

1045
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:48,760
Speaker 1: because I tried it out. But I have the same memory.

1046
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: It was six in the morning going down to this

1047
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 1: thing that've been baking since probably two am. And the

1048
00:53:56,719 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 1: thing was warm. What was it? It was a boogatza,

1049
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 1: which is it's a It was a savory buogutza. The

1050
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 1: booguts can be sweet or savory. And it's only the

1051
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:10,879
Speaker 1: only in those days, only bacon at a certain time

1052
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:17,280
Speaker 1: of year, which is to celebrate the the festival, our lady.

1053
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: It's in August, generally in August, and and the boogutza

1054
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 1: was a I got a savory one.

1055
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 2: It was.

1056
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: It's sort of like a cheese, but a sweet cheese inside.

1057
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 1: I don't know what it's made from, but I have

1058
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 1: this memory, and and it's about the taste, the smell

1059
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 1: of the bakery, the smell of the thing I bought,

1060
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: the weight of it also, and it was also the crunch.

1061
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,280
Speaker 1: And it's interesting you took me back to a time.

1062
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,320
Speaker 1: I can remember the morning that I first tasted and

1063
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: therefore when every single morning was was on that island and.

1064
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 2: Only one of these things. Now, this sounds amazing.

1065
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 1: Booboo guts and you don't get them, you don't see it,

1066
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:55,919
Speaker 1: but a lot of people make them now all year round,

1067
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: but they're they're not made. It'd been some old artist

1068
00:54:58,280 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 1: and the guys will be dead by now. But it

1069
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:01,760
Speaker 1: was my ardors and go. It was making these things

1070
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: that imprinted something on my mom. Did imprint something on

1071
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 1: your mind?

1072
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1073
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 1: To such an extent that I must try to reproduce

1074
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:10,879
Speaker 1: my version of this. Yes.

1075
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 2: And so I get back to Australia. I signed the

1076
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 2: lease on a tiny shop already. Well no, no, no,

1077
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,760
Speaker 2: So I mean I'm carrying on from the story earlier.

1078
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 2: Where come back? And I've done my tour around Melbourne.

1079
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,320
Speaker 2: Can't find a bakery, find a shop, sign the lease,

1080
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 2: think about a business name?

1081
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 1: Loon? What was the fascination with moon?

1082
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 2: Oh? Well, obviously my book's called Destination Moon. The first

1083
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 2: chapter details how even from a very very young age,

1084
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 2: I've been obsessed with the moon. And when I was

1085
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 2: very bad with asthma when I was young. To get

1086
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 2: me to go to bed, the only way I would

1087
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 2: do it is if Mum and Dad took me outside

1088
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 2: to say good night to the moon. And like still

1089
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:54,399
Speaker 2: to this day, if I'm out and I can see

1090
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:56,359
Speaker 2: the moon at night, or like say good night to him,

1091
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 2: I think it's a hymn, I don't know.

1092
00:55:58,239 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 1: And what'd you call lune?

1093
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 2: So that's the friend that Okay. So when I was

1094
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 2: working in Formula one, my boyfriend, who was also an aerodynamicist,

1095
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 2: we went for our one year anniversary to Bruges, which

1096
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:11,359
Speaker 2: is the.

1097
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 1: Home of Tintin. As in Belgium, Ye, the comic Tintin.

1098
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 1: It was a very famous as a German TV show, Tintin.

1099
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 2: No, it's Belgian, Belgian, is it ye? So they had

1100
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 2: this beautiful, very.

1101
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 1: Famous, very famous star on television. But it was a dog, yeah,

1102
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 1: Snowy Snowy. But then Tintin was Snowy's owner, and I

1103
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 1: think it was a bit of a I don't know.

1104
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 1: I didn't fully follow it, but we went into the

1105
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:37,839
Speaker 1: Tintin shop and right in the window there was a

1106
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:41,240
Speaker 1: poster and it was a poster of a rocket about

1107
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 1: to take off from the desert, and all the scaffolding

1108
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 1: was around it, and Tintin and Snowy were in this

1109
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:49,760
Speaker 1: jeep bouncing towards it, and the title of the poster

1110
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:54,879
Speaker 1: was objective Loon, which in French translates to destination Moon.

1111
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,840
Speaker 2: And I was so captivated. Sorry, I was so captivated

1112
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 2: by this poster that my boyfriend bought it for me

1113
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 2: and brought it home to England and had it framed.

1114
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 2: And by this stage I'm already coming home from work

1115
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 2: and baking at night. And he'd been joking that I

1116
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 2: should open a cafe and he said to me, if

1117
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 2: you ever opened a cafe, you should call it objective loon. Now,

1118
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 2: objective loon is not particularly catchy, but loon is. And

1119
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 2: then when I started to think about it, like loon

1120
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 2: means moon in French and croissants are crescent moon shaped. Yeah,

1121
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 2: and I studied aerospace engineering and fell in love with

1122
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 2: the early space race during my university years. And then

1123
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 2: thinking all the way back, for my whole life, I've

1124
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 2: had to say good night to the moon every night

1125
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 2: and for me, and also croissants are French and loon

1126
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 2: is a French word, and for me, it just felt

1127
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 2: like the business couldn't be called anything else.

1128
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: It sounds comforting, Yeah, it's also a nice way to say,

1129
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: it's quite comforting that the story sits around it.

1130
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'm someone and I'm only realizing this now.

1131
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 2: I really love a full circle moment. And for me

1132
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 2: that like in that where you describe comforting, it feels

1133
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 2: like it ties back to everything. So yeah, for me,

1134
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 2: maybe it was that opportunity to bring all of these

1135
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 2: important things in my life together in one little business,

1136
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 2: the important emotions.

1137
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: And it's quite interesting for someone who's an engineer and

1138
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: who probably thinks in a engineering process, there's there's a

1139
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 1: lot of emotion around you. It may well have actually

1140
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 1: been responsible for you getting unwell, and may but also

1141
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: maybe where you are, where you land it today may

1142
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 1: be responsible responsible for getting you well.

1143
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think you've actually just summed up

1144
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 2: the core theme of my book, Well done, don't read it.

1145
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 2: That's that's actually it. It's this idea that perfectionism and obsession,

1146
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 2: when applied for good can have very powerful positive impact.

1147
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 2: But then on the flip side, when used in a

1148
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 2: negative way, you can have a very detrimental, very detrimentally.

1149
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 1: But that's quite binary. So it's it's not maybe this

1150
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 1: or maybe.

1151
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 2: That is No, it's not that or that. Yes, it's

1152
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 2: one or the other.

1153
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 1: It's good or bad. It's it's like, how have you

1154
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,959
Speaker 1: applied It's not it's not you know, there's nothing gray

1155
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 1: in there.

1156
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 2: No, it's probably not a gray area.

1157
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 1: Very mathematical, you know, like it's zero or one.

1158
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're right, Yeah, very mathematical.

1159
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 1: So least, okay, I'm done to know about how do

1160
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: you design? I can only tell you what I've seen.

1161
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 1: So the crosslands you have in your store probably most

1162
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 1: people center, but they're all beautifully designed and sort of

1163
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 1: quite exotic looking, apart from the OG the original one,

1164
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 1: the rest of us sort of and they just make

1165
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 1: you want to eat them. I'll buy one of those,

1166
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: and I buy one of those. A bit of trama

1167
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 1: of those, because I don't know what any of them

1168
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 1: tastes like, but I can just look at him. I'm thinking, well,

1169
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 1: that looks interesting. That looks interesting, that looks interesting. Where

1170
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 1: did the design process come from? What was that idea?

1171
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 1: What's that thinking?

1172
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 2: The design process? I'm going to use an analogy I think.

1173
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've been to our now what

1174
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 2: I would call the flagship store in Melbourne. It wasn't

1175
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 2: where I originally started Loon, but then to bring you

1176
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 2: up to speed quickly, after about a year and a half,

1177
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 2: my brother joined me in the business and he's been

1178
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 2: instrumental in helping me grow it. So we outgrew the

1179
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:48,360
Speaker 2: initial space very quickly, and then we moved into this

1180
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 2: four hundred square meter turn of the century warehouse and

1181
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 2: we built a bakery that it was unlike any bakery

1182
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 2: on earth. We put a huge glass cube right in

1183
01:00:57,840 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 2: the center of it, and we climb it, controlled it,

1184
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 2: and became the raw Pastry kitchen where we made the

1185
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 2: raw croissant pastry, which meant that chefs working in the

1186
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 2: kitchen could be in the heart of the customer area

1187
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 2: and enjoy the customers eating eating the pastries and enjoying them.

1188
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 2: And it also meant that the customers could watch how

1189
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 2: much care and attention and detail was being put into

1190
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 2: the pastries. Like, you know, when I first started Loon,

1191
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 2: some people would say to me, oh, so do you

1192
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:23,640
Speaker 2: just get up in the morning and whip up a

1193
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 2: batch of croissants. I'm like, no, I started them three

1194
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 2: days ago. But for me and for Cam designing Loan,

1195
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 2: like this was the opportunity to showcase just how difficult

1196
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 2: it is to make a croissant. Well, so when we

1197
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:40,439
Speaker 2: ll probably properly, yeah, thank you. So when we were

1198
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 2: presented with this empty, you know, one hundred year old factory,

1199
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 2: we could have thought about it from a beautiful design perspective,

1200
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 2: or we could have thought about it from like, how

1201
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 2: can we make this how can we engineer this space

1202
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 2: to best serve the people in it, to make the

1203
01:01:58,440 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 2: croissants the best that they can.

1204
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 1: Also showcased at the same time, well did you showcase it?

1205
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, But we weren't really thinking about it like that.

1206
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 2: We were thinking about like Cam and I were the

1207
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:09,959
Speaker 2: ones making the croissants at the time, and we didn't

1208
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 2: want to be stuck in a room with out windows

1209
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 2: out the back. We kind of wanted to be in

1210
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 2: the thick of it, and so for us, we kind

1211
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 2: of designed the room that the glass climate controlled room

1212
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 2: for ourselves and then had this moment a little bit

1213
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 2: later being like, that's going to be really cool for

1214
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 2: people to be able.

1215
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 1: To watch it hily immersive.

1216
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:30,480
Speaker 2: But then when we thought about the layout of this space,

1217
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 2: I mean, we didn't need four hundred square meters to

1218
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 2: make croissants. We went from twenty square meters to four hundred,

1219
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 2: So it was excessive, but it gave us this open

1220
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 2: plan to design the perfect flow for making croissant pastry.

1221
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:46,479
Speaker 2: So we thought about every single step in that three

1222
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 2: day process engineered. Yeah, and how the journey that the

1223
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:52,960
Speaker 2: pastry moves from from the dough being made to the

1224
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:55,600
Speaker 2: croissants finally being pulled out of the oven, and like

1225
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 2: what is that perfect journey for the pastry and also

1226
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 2: the people that work with it. And you know, we

1227
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:03,080
Speaker 2: didn't have a huge amount of money, so we were like, Okay,

1228
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 2: we've got this beautiful old warehouse. We need to maximize

1229
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 2: our spend on bakery equipment. So we really designed that

1230
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:15,120
Speaker 2: space for perfect function. But when you watch people working

1231
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 2: in a space that was designed with them in mind

1232
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 2: and their ease of work and their efficiency, suddenly the

1233
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 2: space becomes very beautiful in its form. And to go

1234
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 2: back to talking about the croissants, Yeah, I mean some

1235
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 2: of our garnishes are maybe elaborate and for design, but really,

1236
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:39,320
Speaker 2: when we think about designing a new pastry, we think

1237
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 2: about the eating experience and when someone takes a bite,

1238
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 2: are they going to get a little bit of each element?

1239
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 2: How do they work with each other, what's the flavor?

1240
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 2: What's the experience?

1241
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 1: So it's really so it's not about it's not about

1242
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 1: the physical or like they of it.

1243
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 2: No, it's about the whole experience. Of eating it, and

1244
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:04,280
Speaker 2: I think, I mean, you know, I've got a team

1245
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 2: now at Loon of nearly three hundred people. We've got

1246
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 2: an executive team of fifteen people, and we all every

1247
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 2: day come to work thinking is there something that we

1248
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 2: can be doing better, really applying that engineering mindset and

1249
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 2: giving everyone in the organization the agency to impact positively

1250
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 2: the business if they have an idea. And I think

1251
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 2: this is a nice full circle moment that's coming back

1252
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:32,040
Speaker 2: to the opposite of my experience of working in Formula one.

1253
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 1: Teamwork, proper team work.

1254
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, if a kitchen hand comes up to us and says,

1255
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:37,800
Speaker 2: this job that you've had me doing for the past

1256
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 2: three weeks, I actually think there's a more efficient way

1257
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:42,040
Speaker 2: we can do it, or a better way, or a

1258
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 2: cheaper way without affecting the product quality. We allow them

1259
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 2: to present to us, tell us how you're going to

1260
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 2: test it, what you're going to look for, and if

1261
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 2: you can prove that it is better, then that will

1262
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 2: become the new process.

1263
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 1: Give an opportunity. Do you do coilabs with people like

1264
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 1: Messine or etc. We do. Yeah, if you're doing a nick.

1265
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 2: We haven't done a Massina one yet, but now he's

1266
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:06,200
Speaker 2: got shadow baking. I'm sure the idea of him. I

1267
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 2: love shadow baking as well. They also Flow, who's one

1268
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 2: of the owners, did a couple of years with us

1269
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 2: and he's an incredible pastry chef, so to have him

1270
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:16,720
Speaker 2: at the Helm.

1271
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:18,640
Speaker 1: Is But there's a different type of pastry what they

1272
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 1: do a shadow No, they do croissant pastry as well.

1273
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 1: Cross to recall, they've got breads and like yours. Really

1274
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:27,120
Speaker 1: just no.

1275
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 2: I think we might be the only business in the

1276
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 2: world that I know of that every product on our

1277
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:34,959
Speaker 2: counter is made from croissant pastry. You know, we don't

1278
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 2: have a donut or a briar sure cookie. It's all croissants.

1279
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 2: And that was very That was very thought out and

1280
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 2: specific on my behalf, because when I came back from

1281
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:49,120
Speaker 2: France and I did my obsessive bakery tour, I learned

1282
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 2: that there were three types of bakeries. Pastries were good

1283
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 2: and bread was average, or bread was good and pastries

1284
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 2: were average, or everything was average. And if I was

1285
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 2: going to start a business, I only wanted everything to

1286
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:04,400
Speaker 2: be the best that it could possibly be on the counter,

1287
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 2: and bread and croissants require very different environments for them.

1288
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 2: To be made the best way possible. And I had

1289
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 2: like a twenty square meter kitchen, and I'd fallen in

1290
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 2: love with the Corossant in Paris. Anyway, I already knew

1291
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 2: that that was the one that I wanted to innovate

1292
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 2: and to try and perfect.

1293
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 1: I love bread. Can you fall in love with bread

1294
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:26,040
Speaker 1: and make really good bread? Because I'm not. I really

1295
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:27,240
Speaker 1: love bread. I just love bread.

1296
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 2: I mean I love bread and butter, bread and olive oil.

1297
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 1: All of me. But I like olive oil. Yeah, not

1298
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 1: from Greece, but I actually if it's from Greece. I

1299
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 1: got one particular olive oil I love from Greece. It's

1300
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 1: called wild olive and it actually comes from wild olive

1301
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 1: trees in Greece. And I know that Evan Caravens, who

1302
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 1: imports or he produce it. He's Australian from Melbourne actually,

1303
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:54,240
Speaker 1: but I do think Australian olive oil is some some

1304
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 1: of the best olive oil in the world. In fact,

1305
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:58,920
Speaker 1: we're just about to do a testing process of olive.

1306
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 2: Oils around sometime next week. I'm willing to help out

1307
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 2: good bread and olive oil.

1308
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:07,120
Speaker 1: You must just on things like bad. Would you consider

1309
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 1: going into other areas outside of crossponse. That's a request.

1310
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 2: It's actually not a question, it's a request. I there

1311
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 2: are some things that I've come across in the last

1312
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 2: few years. Actually I've already done it. Not bread. But

1313
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 2: I went to New York for the first time in

1314
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, a year after The New York Times had

1315
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:32,480
Speaker 2: written the article that really made Lune globally.

1316
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 1: Fa gradulation because that's pretty hard to get.

1317
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:37,880
Speaker 2: Yes, it was really like a mop me up from

1318
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 2: the floor from my puddle that I've just melted because

1319
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:42,160
Speaker 2: the New York Times have written about Lune. And I

1320
01:07:42,200 --> 01:07:44,520
Speaker 2: had dinner with the journalists who wrote the article, and

1321
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:46,680
Speaker 2: he said, if you eat anything in New York, you

1322
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 2: have to go to Daily Provisions and have a crueler

1323
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 2: crueler or a craller. I'm not one hundred percent sure

1324
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:55,280
Speaker 2: of a disronunciation. It's shoe pastry, like normally what a

1325
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 2: profiterole or a claire would be. But it's piped with

1326
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 2: a star nozzle in a ring a donut and it's

1327
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 2: deep fried. And honestly, I went to Daily Provisions the

1328
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 2: next day and I ordered a maple glazed cruler and

1329
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 2: my life was changed, similar to that moment of having

1330
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 2: a croissant for the first time in Paris.

1331
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 1: Well, we can see another business.

1332
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:17,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's happening.

1333
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:19,439
Speaker 1: It's for you. Yeah, you're doing it.

1334
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 2: So No. In twenty twenty one, Cam and I, you're

1335
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 2: doing it already, we opened Moon.

1336
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 1: Wow.

1337
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:25,679
Speaker 2: So it's like Lune's little sister.

1338
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:28,040
Speaker 1: I've seen Loon, but I haven't seen Moon.

1339
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:31,439
Speaker 2: So Moon only operates on a Saturday and Sunday out

1340
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:34,080
Speaker 2: of out where our office is in Melbourne at the moment,

1341
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 2: but we're getting ready to open its first ever permanent

1342
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 2: store in the city. And I also haven't really seen

1343
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:45,520
Speaker 2: a business that just specializes in crulers and.

1344
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 1: A lot of Bella cruel. I've never heard of.

1345
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 2: A cereubl Ei.

1346
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:50,080
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna be looking out for that.

1347
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:52,479
Speaker 2: If you come to Melbourne, meet me or meet you

1348
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:55,840
Speaker 2: at Moon, It's they're like one fresh out of the

1349
01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:59,680
Speaker 2: fryer with the vanilla glaze on. It is. It's like

1350
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:03,440
Speaker 2: childhood levels of excitement happiness.

1351
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 1: I love that.

1352
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:04,760
Speaker 2: It's pretty good.

1353
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 1: I love that. So just at less around it all off,

1354
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 1: if talk about full circle right off, full circle, has

1355
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:16,800
Speaker 1: anyone ever reached out to you and said, Hey, Kate,

1356
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:21,559
Speaker 1: I'm a patry chef and I'm dying to many nineteen

1357
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:23,840
Speaker 1: years of age, and I live in London and I'd

1358
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:25,679
Speaker 1: love to come and work for your great business loan.

1359
01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:27,640
Speaker 1: Have you had that experience yet?

1360
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:29,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? Countless times?

1361
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:29,599
Speaker 1: Oh really.

1362
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 2: And there have been several people that we've welcomed into

1363
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 2: loun and they've done stags And there have been some

1364
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 2: people that have come and done a few weeks and

1365
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:39,720
Speaker 2: they've loved it so much that they've stayed on and

1366
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:43,719
Speaker 2: worked for us. It does feel like a pay it forward.

1367
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 2: Maybe it's pay it back for Yeah, I think I am.

1368
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:51,760
Speaker 2: I'm incredibly grateful to the opportunity that Christoph gave me

1369
01:09:52,280 --> 01:09:55,680
Speaker 2: because that month in Paris really defined for me that

1370
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:58,760
Speaker 2: turning point in my illness where I got that new

1371
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 2: thing to latch onto and obsession that pulled me out

1372
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,880
Speaker 2: of the anorexia and gave me something very hopeful to

1373
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:05,800
Speaker 2: work towards again.

1374
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:09,320
Speaker 1: And you're well, completely well now or do you have

1375
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:10,160
Speaker 1: to still manage this?

1376
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think eating disorders are kind of like maybe alcoholism,

1377
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 2: where you reach a point of sobriety, but then you're

1378
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 2: constantly required to manage that. There have been moments in

1379
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:24,680
Speaker 2: the last fifteen years where I dip into a very

1380
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 2: stressful period and I start to go down that path

1381
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:32,240
Speaker 2: of using eating an exercise to control. But I can

1382
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:34,800
Speaker 2: catch myself and like now, I know it. I know

1383
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 2: I can sense when it's coming, and I just have

1384
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:42,000
Speaker 2: to put mechanisms in place to look after myself. But yeah,

1385
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:46,519
Speaker 2: it's a there's Once you've had an eating disorder, you'll

1386
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:48,960
Speaker 2: never not have an eating disorder. But I do enjoy

1387
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 2: food again.

1388
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:53,040
Speaker 1: And I'd love you to comment on this if you

1389
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:57,959
Speaker 1: wouldn't mind. But everyone sort of freaks out about obsession

1390
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:03,200
Speaker 1: or having obsessive characteristic, but maybe you could just give

1391
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:08,480
Speaker 1: a commentary on this one last thing. If you understand,

1392
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 1: this is obsession approaching me now, and I'm going to

1393
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:18,479
Speaker 1: use obsession to get this outcome. But when I've got there,

1394
01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:20,640
Speaker 1: I've got When I've got that outcome, I'm going to

1395
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:23,240
Speaker 1: put it in a box and just park it over

1396
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 1: there and grab it again when I need it. In

1397
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:29,400
Speaker 1: other words, using the emotion to your benefit. Is that

1398
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:32,599
Speaker 1: something that you feel as though you're able to do,

1399
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 1: and if so, how important is that for you to

1400
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:38,960
Speaker 1: be successful because you've been successful in everything you've done,

1401
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:40,439
Speaker 1: including overcoming obsession.

1402
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:46,240
Speaker 2: It is it is crucial to me. I think, ah,

1403
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:53,280
Speaker 2: I think it's my superpower. And from having the eating disorder,

1404
01:11:53,479 --> 01:11:57,400
Speaker 2: I can now spot when I use obsession in a

1405
01:11:57,439 --> 01:11:59,519
Speaker 2: negative way, and as I said, I can catch it

1406
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:04,000
Speaker 2: in and that can be in multiple forms. But I

1407
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:08,639
Speaker 2: don't think I would have had success without that very

1408
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:16,519
Speaker 2: strong personality trait. It's been one hundred percent crucial to

1409
01:12:16,600 --> 01:12:17,720
Speaker 2: making me who I am.

1410
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:22,840
Speaker 1: Therefore, people who worry about it having obsessive it's only

1411
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 1: disorder when you can't control it. So therefore, if you

1412
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:34,440
Speaker 1: can recognize that trait within yourself and harness its.

1413
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:35,679
Speaker 2: Actually there's this one perfect way I can sum it up.

1414
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:41,040
Speaker 2: Based on being very vulnerable about the eating disorder. I

1415
01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 2: have a lot of people, whether it be parents or

1416
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:47,400
Speaker 2: people who are suffering from one themselves, reaching out. And

1417
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:51,120
Speaker 2: I learned when I was going through it that it's

1418
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:53,880
Speaker 2: very important not to say the wrong person to someone

1419
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:55,920
Speaker 2: suffering from an eating disorder, because it can set them

1420
01:12:55,960 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 2: back significantly. And now the one thing that I say,

1421
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:06,760
Speaker 2: which I one hundred percent believe, if we are stubborn

1422
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:10,880
Speaker 2: and determined and strong enough and obsessive enough to get

1423
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 2: us that sick to like restrict like daily human need

1424
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:20,200
Speaker 2: of food, then we are strong enough to get ourselves

1425
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:23,080
Speaker 2: out of it and do anything else, and do anything else.

1426
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:25,439
Speaker 1: So, in other words, and I think it's a good

1427
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 1: place to finish this off, Kate, is that that thing

1428
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:34,320
Speaker 1: that got you into the hole is actually superpower if

1429
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 1: you know how to manage it.

1430
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:37,400
Speaker 2: And it's probably the thing that got me out of

1431
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:38,280
Speaker 2: the hole again and.

1432
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:39,920
Speaker 1: Got you and got you to where you are now

1433
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:41,719
Speaker 1: in terms of your success.

1434
01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, k Read.

1435
01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 1: Thanks very much. That was awesome.

1436
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:45,479
Speaker 2: Thank you