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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Friday, February thirteen, twenty twenty six. Angus Taylor is

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Speaker 1: the new leader of the Federal Liberals and leader of

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Speaker 1: the Opposition, and his deputy as Liberal leader is Jane Hume.

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Speaker 1: That's after a ballot where MPs dumped Susan Lee. Today

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Speaker 1: Dennis Shanahan, our national editor, joins us for a look

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Speaker 1: at what Taylor aims to do with the job, what

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Speaker 1: went wrong for Lee, and whether the Glamour candidate Andrew

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Speaker 1: Hasty might try and snatch the job back anyway. That's

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Speaker 1: today's story. Dennis Shanahan is The Australian's National editor. Dennis,

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Speaker 1: do you get a sense of deja vu when these

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Speaker 1: leadership challenges come on? Do you wake up with a

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Speaker 1: sense of dread that it might be happening today?

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Speaker 2: Yes, it is a bit like that.

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Speaker 3: I've seen quite a few over the years, and this

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Speaker 3: one has been a little bit different. It's tried to

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Speaker 3: follow some of the usual rules, but then it hasn't

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Speaker 3: and a number of people have described as being weird.

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Speaker 2: There's not the sense of normal momentum.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of speculation, a long way out, a

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Speaker 3: lot of telegraphing well ahead of it, and really no

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Speaker 3: action taken about it. And then in the end when

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Speaker 3: the resignation came, it took about twenty four hours before

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Speaker 3: the challenge was announced. So yes, this has been different,

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Speaker 3: but in some ways always the same. Someone has a

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Speaker 3: go and then you have a vote, and sometimes they

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Speaker 3: get up and sometimes they don't. But generally when you

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Speaker 3: have a vote like this, a challenge against an incumbent leader,

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Speaker 3: it turns into a problem for the person who wins,

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Speaker 3: but also an ongoing problem for the party. We've seen

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Speaker 3: this over the last two decades where a challenge has

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Speaker 3: occurred during the Rad Guillard radjyears, absolutely polluted the standing

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Speaker 3: as a Labor party.

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Speaker 2: If you ever thought about this, I'm now not the

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Speaker 2: leader of the Labor Party, but I'm the Prime minister.

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Speaker 2: Anything could happen, folks.

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Speaker 4: I've been a little bit amused by those colleagues in

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Speaker 4: the newspapers who have admitted that I have suffered more

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Speaker 4: pressure as a result of my gender than other prime

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Speaker 4: ministers in the past, but then concluded that it had

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Speaker 4: zero effect on my political position or the political position

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Speaker 4: of the Labor Party.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't explain everything. It doesn't explain nothing. It explains

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Speaker 2: some things.

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Speaker 3: And then we had the Turnbull Abbot Morrison leadership challenges.

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Speaker 5: We have lost thirty news polls in a row. It

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Speaker 5: is clear that the people have made up their mind

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Speaker 5: about mister Abbot's leadership.

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Speaker 2: We are not the Labor Party.

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Speaker 4: This country needs strong and stable government and that means

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Speaker 4: avoiding at all costs Labor's revolving door prime ministership.

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Speaker 5: In so far as there has been chaos this week

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Speaker 5: that has been created by the wreckers, I have done

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Speaker 5: everything I can to maintain the stability of government and

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Speaker 5: the stability.

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Speaker 2: Of the party.

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Speaker 5: But of course if people are determined to wreck then

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Speaker 5: you know they will continue to do so.

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Speaker 3: And people get very tired of this because it looks

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Speaker 3: like and it is the politicians only talking about themselves

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Speaker 3: and their own futures.

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Speaker 1: We often talk about Anthony Albanezi as a very adept

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Speaker 1: tactical politician. He's shown time and time again that he

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Speaker 1: knows how to play the kind of dirty game of politics.

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Speaker 1: How much credit do you think he can take for

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Speaker 1: the fall of Susan Lee, or at the very least

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Speaker 1: the big trouble. The Liberals now find themselves in.

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Speaker 2: Look.

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Speaker 3: I think the official political scientist term for Anthony Albenese's

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Speaker 3: approach is called rat cunning.

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Speaker 2: He understands everything.

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Speaker 3: He has such a feel for insider politics. He has

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Speaker 3: a great understanding of parliamentary institutions and all of Susan

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Speaker 3: Lee's problems, that is, the outside problems, not the one

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Speaker 3: she created herself. But they go back to Anthony Albanese

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Speaker 3: manipulating the whole process of the emergency sitting of Parliament

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Speaker 3: to consider the anti Semitism and gun laws.

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Speaker 2: It worked far better than he could have dreamed.

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Speaker 3: He felt that he could at least put a wedge

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Speaker 3: between the Nationals and the Liberals, the ones great party

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Speaker 3: of the Liberal Party in the National Party.

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Speaker 2: They've gone. They've gone.

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Speaker 3: They've gone from being a party of well, the alternative

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Speaker 3: party of government into playschool missus speaker in a play school.

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Speaker 3: Not only did he do that, he completely split the coalition.

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Speaker 3: They became the story for two weeks and now as

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Speaker 3: a result of that, the polls have plummeted and Angus

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Speaker 3: Taylor has actually now moved a challenge against Susan Lee.

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Speaker 2: So if she.

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Speaker 3: Fails as the Liberal leader in the ballot, then we

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Speaker 3: can think to a large degree Anthony Albaneze's rat cunning

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Speaker 3: for that as well as the split in the coalition.

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Speaker 1: I thought on Thursday morning that Angus Taylor has started

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Speaker 1: to look almost like an AI generated politician. He's handsome,

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Speaker 1: he's tanned, he is standing in a field, he's saying

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Speaker 1: all the right things and he's very articulate.

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Speaker 6: The Great Australian Dream. I'm committing myself to the cause

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Speaker 6: of restoring our party so that it can be the

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Speaker 6: party that Australians expect and deserve, because we're running out

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Speaker 6: of time and Australia is worth fighting for.

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Speaker 1: How well do you think he's going to go at

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Speaker 1: least getting his name known by the Australian public.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's his biggest problem.

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Speaker 3: That is his biggest problem as far as the public

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Speaker 3: is concerned. The other Conservative contender, Andrew Hasty, is much

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Speaker 3: better known in the public. He has a much better

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Speaker 3: message to cut through. His viral video with the old

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Speaker 3: Ford Falcon there really worked for Andrew Hasty in putting

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Speaker 3: him up in lights.

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Speaker 7: I don't know about you, but I have to remind

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Speaker 7: myself that we used to make cars in this country.

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Speaker 7: Check this car out. It's a beautiful piece of craftsmanship.

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Speaker 7: It's horsepower, it's heritage, it's grit and it's an Aussie

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Speaker 7: car made by Ossie workers for the Australian people.

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Speaker 3: Angus Taylor, although he has been a minister in the

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Speaker 3: Morrison government, he has been Shadow Treasurer, still doesn't have

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Speaker 3: the recognition level of either Susan Lee or Andrew Hasty.

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Speaker 3: Part of that is that he is very much a

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Speaker 3: reserved person. His style is not to go out and perform,

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Speaker 3: although we've seen over the last couple of days as

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Speaker 3: he's tried to appeal to the public put out his

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Speaker 3: own video with a haircut and standing under the trees,

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Speaker 3: probably recorded beforehand.

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Speaker 2: And also not a particularly good look when.

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Speaker 3: Someone puts out a video saying what I stand for,

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Speaker 3: Because if you're a politician, you're running to be leader

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Speaker 3: of the opposition, running to be leader of the Liberal Party,

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Speaker 3: and you're putting out a video saying what I stand for.

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Speaker 3: This is like one time Kim Beasley stood under a

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Speaker 3: placard saying what I stand for. This is not a

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Speaker 3: good look and it has a portent of a real

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Speaker 3: difficulty with Angus Taylor in public, performing in media, and

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Speaker 3: importantly in the Parliament, because part of Susan Lee's problem

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Speaker 3: has been her inability to cut through in parliament. Part

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Speaker 3: of her problem has been to get away from the

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Speaker 3: dominance of Antony alban Asi and Tony Burke in the parliament.

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Speaker 3: And so Angus Taylor faces a real challenge in his

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Speaker 3: personal presentation and his parliamentary presentation if he becomes leader,

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Speaker 3: and this is part of his character, it's part of

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Speaker 3: his personality and it will be part of the problem

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Speaker 3: he faces going forward if he is in fact the

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Speaker 3: Liberal leader.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the video contained absolutely nothing about what he does

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Speaker 1: stand for, though he said the phrase, but then he

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Speaker 1: said that he stands for the Great Australian Dream and

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Speaker 1: serving the Australian people and all stuff that any politician

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Speaker 1: might say. What direction would he actually take the Liberal

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Speaker 1: Party in? Do you think, Dennis Well?

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Speaker 3: I think this is again in a shortcoming, and a

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Speaker 3: lot of the video he did create was similar to

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Speaker 3: Andrew Hastis, about values and so on. Just what didn't

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Speaker 3: have the impact because it didn't talk about any policy.

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Speaker 3: This challenge is about polling and personality, it's not about

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Speaker 3: policy and all we have seen from Angus Taylor so

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Speaker 3: far is to say that he's not Susan Lee. And

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Speaker 3: although Susan Lee is a nice and courageous person, she

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Speaker 3: can't lead the party, but he can. This is a

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Speaker 3: real problem for somebody taking over one of the major

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Speaker 3: parties as leader of the opposition. He's been in opposition

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Speaker 3: for nine months and the Liberal parties in dire straits,

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Speaker 3: dire straits. We can see that he says it, and

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Speaker 3: he says this is a moment where the Liberal Party

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Speaker 3: it's a moment to die if they're not careful. And

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Speaker 3: yet he doesn't have an alternative agenda, an alternative.

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Speaker 2: Vision to the leader who is trying to remove.

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Speaker 1: Coming up more of my conversation with Dennis Shanahan. Susan

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Speaker 1: Lee is, of course the first female leader of the

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Speaker 1: Federal Liberal Party, and I've spoken to lots of Liberal

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Speaker 1: women who in the past few years are pretty despairing

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Speaker 1: about their prospects of ever advancing in a party. As

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Speaker 1: obviously its popularity shrinks, you know, it's harder and harder

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Speaker 1: to get any seat at all, really hard to get

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Speaker 1: into a winnable seat, because you need to have done

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Speaker 1: the work with pre selection committees and branch meetings that

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Speaker 1: often women haven't had the time to do because they're

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Speaker 1: raising families, building careers, are busy people. What do you

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Speaker 1: think the fact that Susan Lee has only lasted such

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Speaker 1: a short amount of time says about the Liberal Party's

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Speaker 1: attitude to women or is it actually completely irrelevant?

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Speaker 3: Look, it's not completely irrelevant, and in fact the Prime

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Speaker 3: Minister in Parliament on Thursday made a great point about it,

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Speaker 3: as does other ministers saying, oh, the Liberal Party doesn't

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Speaker 3: treat women well, they don't have Liberal women in all

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Speaker 3: levels of positions of power. It was all about trying

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Speaker 3: to blacken Angus Taylor as being a misogynist who is

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Speaker 3: undermining and trying to remove the first female federal Liberal leader.

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Speaker 2: Now that is all pertinent.

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Speaker 3: I think that as far as the Poles are concerned,

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Speaker 3: as far as the draining of support in the polls

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Speaker 3: and at branch level from the Liberals and the Nationals

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Speaker 3: to One Nation, and we have in the latest News

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Speaker 3: poll One Nation at twenty seven percent primary vote. This

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Speaker 3: is a good eight or nine points above the coalition,

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Speaker 3: making the Coalition the third party on primary support. And

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Speaker 3: this really doesn't have anything to do with the gender

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Speaker 3: of Susan Lee. It is about her own problems as leader,

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Speaker 3: ineptitude in the House, and a lack of talent around her.

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Speaker 3: One of the points here is after the devastating loss,

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Speaker 3: the Liberal Party and the National Party have been reduced

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Speaker 3: to their bare bones of talent, and a lot of

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Speaker 3: the talent is in the Senate where it can't make

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Speaker 3: an impact on the leadership and on the daily parliamentary

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Speaker 3: attacks on the government. So I don't think it's irreli

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Speaker 3: but I don't think it is a major issue.

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Speaker 1: What do you think about the future of the coalition now, Dennis,

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Speaker 1: We saw an embarrassing breakup and then get back together,

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Speaker 1: then a break up again, and then they got back

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Speaker 1: together again. Seems that's only a few days ago, and

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Speaker 1: it seems pretty fragile. Can Angus Taylor hold this coalition

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Speaker 1: together better than Susan Lee could?

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Speaker 3: Well, you have to give Susan Lee credit because it's

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Speaker 3: my view that the National Party was unrealistic in the

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Speaker 3: way it went about the first breakup that we've had two,

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Speaker 3: and then the second one was particularly bitter, with the

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Speaker 3: National Party leader David Little Proud saying he couldn't work

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Speaker 3: with Susan Lee.

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Speaker 1: You're saying that you cannot work with Susan Lee. So

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Speaker 1: who can you work with?

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Speaker 2: Who should be leading the Liberal Party? Well that's up

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Speaker 2: to the Liberal Party.

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Speaker 3: Now that's unprecedented and it is not helpful for the

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Speaker 3: Liberal leader, but I think for Angus Taylor if he

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Speaker 3: becomes leader. One technicality here is that agreement that Susan

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Speaker 3: Lee and David Little Proud signed only last week, which

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Speaker 3: was a great victory for Susan Lee and David Little

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Speaker 3: Proud saying we've got this agreement, we can all work together,

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Speaker 3: we've got the imperative of winning.

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Speaker 2: That agreement has to be signed again because it's.

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Speaker 3: Between the leaders, and now Angus Taylor has to go

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Speaker 3: and he can say, oh, I'm just going to tick

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Speaker 3: this off and tick off the agreement that Susan Lee

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Speaker 3: won last week, or are the Nationals going to say, oh,

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Speaker 3: we think we might have a bit more here.

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Speaker 2: So the coalition is still on.

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Speaker 3: Very thin ice and at the mercy of just having

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Speaker 3: one or two National Party front benches, and I know

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Speaker 3: there are one or two who are not happy with

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Speaker 3: that agreement that David Little Proud signed with Susan Lee.

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Speaker 3: And so the coalition could be right back where it

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Speaker 3: was last week at the end of this week or

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Speaker 3: when parliament resumes, when all National Party members come back

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Speaker 3: onto the front bench.

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Speaker 1: It's a very long way back to the lodge from

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Speaker 1: where the coalition is now. It's probably going to be

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Speaker 1: two elections at least. Is this a bad time to

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Speaker 1: be getting the leadership given that you're going to have

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Speaker 1: to work very hard for not a lot of result

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Speaker 1: for probably years on end, and then some glamour candidate

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Speaker 1: might come in closer to victory time and you will

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Speaker 1: have done it all for nothing.

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Speaker 3: This is precisely the view of a lot of the

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Speaker 3: Conservative supporters, because yes, the polling is terrible and it's

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Speaker 3: probably going to get worse, particularly after another leadership challenge.

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Speaker 3: So whoever becomes leader or is leader after the meeting

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Speaker 3: on Friday, they will face further tough polling and a

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Speaker 3: drop in the polls. There's no doubt about that. And

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Speaker 3: for Angus Taylor, he will have had his shot and

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Speaker 3: if he's become leader he can then face all of

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Speaker 3: these difficulties we've talked about a whole range of difficulties,

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Speaker 3: much beyond just the change of leader. This isn't going

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Speaker 3: to solve any of the Liberal Party's problems. And so

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Speaker 3: what we will see will be a continuation of poor polling,

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Speaker 3: a continuation of disaffection with the Liberal Party, divisions within

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Speaker 3: the coalition, and the prospect that Andrew Hasty, the other Conservative,

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Speaker 3: the frankly more popular, that is in the public's mind,

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Speaker 3: candidate of Andrew Hasty will then be able.

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Speaker 2: To drop in. As you say, the Glamour candidate.

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Speaker 3: Andrew Hasty is considered the Glamor candidate former sas officer,

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Speaker 3: good looking, young family, lots of ideas, likes Ford Falcons.

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Speaker 3: So there's a much greater prospect of Andrew Hasty coming

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Speaker 3: in for the next election and removing Angus Taylor.

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Speaker 2: This is a real possibility.

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Speaker 3: Or and remember Andrew Hast He's still young enough he

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Speaker 3: can hang around for the election after that. And so,

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Speaker 3: in the brief answer your question is it's not the

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Speaker 3: best of times to become.

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Speaker 2: Leader of the Liberal Party.

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Speaker 3: But there are people who take the view that is,

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Speaker 3: if you're the leader and you get the opportunity to

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Speaker 3: be the leader, you.

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Speaker 2: Take it no matter when and no matter for how long.

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Speaker 2: It's a tough game. Dennis Shanahan. Thank you very much.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. Claire Dennish Shanahan.

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Speaker 1: Is The Australian's National editor. You can check out all

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Speaker 1: his reporting and analysis, and of course we'll be covering

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Speaker 1: all the leadership drama live at The Australian dot com

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Speaker 1: dot a