WEBVTT - Sharri | 3 April 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:02.239 Live on Sky News. 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:10.360 This is Sharry Good Evening tonight. The total overreaction to 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:14.800 Donald Trump's tariffs that will have barely an impact in Australia. 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:18.439 Matt Canavan, Adam Crichton and Basil Zemplus will be here 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:22.079 to discuss this is The coalition says we should look 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:24.440 at lifting the ban on American beef. 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:27.159 But at the end of the day, I mean we 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:29.960 should always be looking at our bios security protocols and 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:31.320 making sure they're fit for purpose. 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:33.400 Something we should consider what. 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:37.200 We should always be considering those protocols and we should 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:40.200 be asking our customers to consider them. 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:43.880 My exclusive interview with the Shadow treasurer Angus Taylor coming 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:47.080 up also in the show, where charity takes legal action 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:51.440 against the Albanezy government over a planned wind farm and 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:55.880 the double standards of the teals exposed. That's all coming up, 0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:00.640 but first tonight, let's cut the spin of Albaneze's confected 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:04.000 outrage over Donald Trump's trade tariffs and look at what's 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:07.840 actually going on here. There are three questions we're going 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.240 to talk about tonight. Why is Trump doing this, what 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:14.600 will the impact be? And should alban Easy have been 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.959 so angry Now, this is one of the most significant 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:21.240 moves that Trump has made as president, and we need 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:25.520 to understand his motivation before we can debate the tariffs 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.000 and the impact that they'll have in the shot and 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:33.319 long term, both in America and on globalization. Today the 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:36.360 President held a press conference in the Rose Garden, where 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.119 he claimed the day was historic. 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:45.720 My fellow Americans, this is liberation Day waiting for a 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:52.160 long time. April second, twenty twenty five will forever be 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:56.920 remembered as the day American industry was reborn, the day 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:01.320 America's destiny was reclaimed, and the day that we began 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.720 to make America wealthy again. 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:09.800 This was a day a long time in the making. 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.800 In fact, Trump has been campaigning on a fairer trading 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:19.160 environment for Americans since nineteen eighty eight. He's been consistent 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:22.880 about this policy, yep, for thirty seven years. Here he 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:26.480 is in an interview with Oprah speaking about evening up 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:27.280 the playing field. 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.400 I'd make our allies forgetting about the enemies, the enemies 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:33.680 you can't talk to so easily. I'd make our allies 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:36.680 pay their fair share. We're a debtor nation. Something's going 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:38.680 to happen over the next number of years with this country, 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:40.959 because you can't keep going on losing two hundred billion. 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:43.720 And yet we let Japan come in and dump everything 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:46.560 right into our markets and everything. It's not free trade. 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:48.480 If you ever go to Japan right now and try 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:50.960 to sell something, forget about it. Open, just forget about it. 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.960 It's almost impossible. Kuwait they live like kings. The poorest 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:56.520 person in Kuwait they live like kings. And yet they're 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:58.760 not paying We make it possible for them to sell 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:01.560 their oil. Why aren't paying us twenty five percent of 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:02.800 what they're making. It's a joke. 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:07.760 Fascinating interview. And of course Trump also campaigned on this 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:10.960 during the presidential election, and he's one of the only 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:14.920 politicians who actually does wood he pledges. You can compare 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:19.400 that to Albanize's own broken promises. Now. In his novel 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:23.960 He'll Billy Elegy jd Vance Now, the Vice President wrote 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.880 about his hometown in Ohio, and he wrote that today 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:32.080 downtown Middletown is little more than a relic of American 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:37.320 industrial glory. His novel, of course, was a worldwide sensation 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:46.000 because it captured the picture of local jobs disappearing, unemployment, skyrocketing, poverty, 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:50.120 consuming communities and at all being replaced by cheap imported 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:55.360 goods to the financial benefit of foreign nations. Now, Trump 0:03:55.400 --> 0:04:00.360 pledged to return manufacturing to America to make his treat 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:04.000 greater again. This is partly why he appealed so strongly 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:07.960 to white working class voters, and it is the sentiment 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.480 behind his Liberation Day tariffs. 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:15.960 Today, this will be indeed the Golden Age of America. 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:17.040 It's coming back. 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:22.400 In a dramatic touch. Trump even drew the comparison with 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:26.839 America's Declaration of Independence, written of course by Thomas Jefferson 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:28.000 and the founding fathers. 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:32.680 This is one of the most important days, in my opinion, 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:39.760 in American history. It's our declaration of economic independence. For years, 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.719 hard working American citizens were forced to sit on the 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:47.159 sidelines as other nations got rich and powerful, much of 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:48.479 it at our expense. 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:54.640 So the idea behind tariffs on important goods to America 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:58.920 is to encourage factories to create products in America and 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:04.120 of course create jobs. Trump spoke of supercharging America's domestic 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:08.000 industrial base, and he says more production at home will 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:13.000 ultimately mean lower prices for consumers. Trump invited up to 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.960 the Rose Garden press conference, a worker who spoke about 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.920 the sentiment behind JD. Vunce's best selling novel. 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.919 I have watched my entire life, I have watched plant 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:29.400 after plant after plant in Detroit and in the Metro 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:33.520 Detroit area close. There are now plants sitting idle. There 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:38.680 are now plants that are underutilized. And Donald Trump's policies 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:42.200 are going to bring product back into those underutilized plants. 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:44.400 There's going to be new investment, there's going to be 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:47.159 new plants built, and in six months or a year, 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:48.800 we're going to begin to see the benefits. 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:54.240 And the move to return to local manufacturing is popular 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:58.080 in the Ross Belt states with working Americans, the blue 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:01.279 collar class, and Trump, as I said, campaigned on this 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:05.480 very issue of import tariffs, so it shouldn't come as 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:08.600 a surprise to anyone. Now, we do need to look 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:12.400 at how they worked out the reciprocal tariffs, so they're called, 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:16.960 were calculated by adding the foreign nation's tariffs plus the 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:20.520 value of any trade barriers that America says they have 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:26.040 in place, and then Trump charged them half that amount. So, 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:30.359 for example, Trump says China slaps tariffs of around sixty 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:35.200 seven percent on American imports. So he's put tariffs of 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:40.240 thirty four percent on Chinese inports. Now, the tariffs don't 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.320 take effect until April the ninth, and the President has 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:47.200 signaled he's open to negotiations and these will unfold in 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.760 the coming days. But he did have a firm. 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:56.960 Message likewise to all of the foreign presidents, prime ministers, kings, queens, 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:00.479 ambassadors and everyone else who will soon be willing to 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:05.080 ask for exemptions from these tariffs. I say, terminate your 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:10.160 own tariffs, drop your barriers, don't manipulate your currencies. 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:15.160 Now, as I mentioned, Trump claims the tariffs are reciprocal, 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:18.720 but we've already seen in Australia as one of them countries, 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:22.080 squabbling about the calculations. Well, they can do this during 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:26.320 the negotiations. Now, this is a very dramatic measure that 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:31.640 Trump has taken to force the revitalization of their manufacturing industry. 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:36.440 We know the pandemic highlighted the problems with relying, particularly 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.520 on Chinese markets. It was a wake up call that 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:45.680 were overly reliant on foreign imports and supply chains. But 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:49.400 thinking behind this is to yes, of course, raise revenue, 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:53.880 reduce America's debt, but also to increase America's self reliance 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:58.920 and independence rather than relying on foreign countries for critical goods, 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:05.080 particularly an enemy that's growing more hostile like China. Again, 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.440 you can disagree or agree with the tariffs, but it's 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:12.080 critical to understand first where this movement is coming from 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:15.760 and why it's so popular, at least in part in 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:20.960 the US. So that's why Trump is implementing these trade tariffs. Now, 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:27.680 the second question is Albanesi's response like this warranted. 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.320 But the Australian people have every right to view this 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:36.200 action by the Trump administration as undermining our free and 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:40.760 fair trading relationship and counter to the shared values that 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:44.040 have always been at the heart of our two nations 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:49.199 long standing friendship. This will have consequences for how Australians 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:50.559 see this relationship. 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:55.240 In my view, he took this too personally. It was 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.960 over the top, and it showed a failure to understand 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:02.319 the political movement behind Trump in America. And it was 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:05.080 also curious when the whole point of the American movement 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:11.000 is very similar to the motivation behind Albanese's own Future 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:15.679 Made in Australia program, except Trump isn't throwing money at 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:20.160 green hydrogen programs. Now, it's also important to note that 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:25.800 Australia has had a five percent customs duty or import 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:31.480 tax for years, for decades, So Albanezi is beyond furious 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:34.800 about a ten percent import tax when we have literally 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:38.120 had a five percent tax on every imported product that 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:42.000 wasn't subject to a free trade agreement for decades. On 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.559 top of this, we do, have, of course, our ten 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:49.400 percent Goods and Services tax that's applied to all imported goods. 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.720 So you could argue that imported products have had a 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:58.880 fifteen percent tax on them. America's ten percent tariff is 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:04.360 quite comparable. Now. Secondly, alban Easy claims of America that 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.480 this isn't what friends do. 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:12.760 The administration's tariffs have no basis in logic, and they 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:16.720 go against the basis of our two nations partnership. This 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:21.559 is not the act of a friend, all right. 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:23.280 Well, if he wants to speak about the act of 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:27.600 a friend, do friends call the immediate past presidents of 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:33.880 our closest allies village idiots and say they're scared of 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:37.080 what they're going to do, Because that's how Albinizi and 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.240 rud have treated their so called friend in Trump. 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:42.640 We have an alliance with the US. 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:45.000 We're going to deal with him, but that doesn't mean 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:47.679 that you're uncritical about it. 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:49.040 He scared it. 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:51.640 Out of me, as the United States in the last 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.120 four years has been run by a village idiot. 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:58.720 Yeah, the Prime Minister's right, that's not what friends do. 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:02.680 They don't insult the residence of our closest ally now. 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:06.760 Albanisi was also very worried today about Australian beef. 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:09.079 Books. 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:14.880 Our understanding is that there is a I heard President 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:20.479 Trump's comments that were made. Our understanding at this point 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:25.600 is that that is a ten percent tariff across the board. 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:30.000 On the first question, yes, we have received confirmation that 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.200 what we thought was the case, that it's just a 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:37.400 ten percent tariff. Similarly, the comparers. I just spoke with 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:41.760 the head of the National Farmer's Federation about fifteen minutes 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:44.160 ago as well and confirmed that with him. I've also 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:51.439 spoken to beef producers and confirmed it with them. 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.960 And he announced a fifteen million dollar subsidy for the 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:58.439 beef industry. But alber Ezy was pretty angry and concerned 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:02.840 about the prospect of an American ban on Australian beef. 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:08.280 But he does realize that Australia bans American beef entirely 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.240 bans it. As Trump pointed out today. 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:14.360 They won't take any of our beef. They don't want 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:17.000 it because they don't want it to affect their farmers. 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:18.480 And you know what, I don't blame them, but we're 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:19.480 doing the same thing. 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.120 Now. The ban, as you probably know, was introduced because 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:29.000 of biosecurity concerns owing to mad cow disease. But now 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:34.800 the US has basically eliminated this, and yet the ban remains. Now. 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:39.800 Of course I can understand Ossie beef farmers feeling anxious tonight, 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:44.360 but Australian beef could actually come out of this equation 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.080 in a better position than it is now. And I'll 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:51.480 explain why. Canada and Mexico supply around twenty four percent 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:55.640 of US beef imports, the same as Australia does, yet 0:12:55.679 --> 0:13:00.640 their tariffs are higher. Canada and Mexico both subject to 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:05.959 around twenty five percent tariffs announced by Trump, higher than 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:10.080 the ten percent on Australia. Now, American produced beef will 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:13.960 be cheaper, but they don't have the capacity to increase 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:17.160 their production, at least not in the short term. That'll 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.760 take years. So in terms of the competition to fill 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:25.560 the American need for beef, Well, Australia's beef will be 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:29.600 cheaper than the higher tariffs and Canadian and Mexican beef, 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:33.040 so this could, depending on how it plays out, even 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:36.160 be of benefit to Australia. We could even see our 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:41.679 beef xpots increase. But it's also strange Albanese's angry response 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.560 to a ten percent tariff from the US compared to 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:51.079 when China entirely banned our beef, wine and balley. He's 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.240 giving money to the beef industry, but there were no subsidies, 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:58.280 for example, to the Australian wine industry, which was hurt 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.839 very badly. Even DEAC made it by the Chinese ban. 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:05.959 And also, if Albanesi is so worried about the cost 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:09.440 on business, then why doesn't he remove the two point 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:14.000 three billion dollar climate stranglehold he's putting on businesses here 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:18.080 in Australia. The ten percent tariff equivalent to our GSD 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:23.040 pales in significance to the billions of dollars Albanzi is 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:28.920 strangling businesses with in the name of climate compliance. Now 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:32.240 to the last question, well, what impact will these tariffs 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:36.880 actually have? Well, that depends on whether countries retaliate and 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:41.800 global trade protectionism returns. In America, prices are expected to 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.720 rise in the short term until cheaper local products are 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:49.600 produced again. That might take some time, although already we've 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:53.080 seen the companies and Trump spoke about this today, companies 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:57.960 including Apple, Hyandai, Johnson and Johnson, and Eli Lilly are 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:02.000 planning to expand their operations in America in response to 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:07.280 the tariffs. Now Goldman Sachs has reportedly estimated that prices 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:11.240 could rise by half a percent to one percent in 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:14.400 the States. In terms of the global picture, the Wall 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:18.360 Street Journal's editorial predicts that if countries try to negotiate 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:21.760 with the US to reduce tariffs, the damage could be 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:26.520 mild up, but if the response is widespread retaliation, the 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:30.400 result could be shrinking well trade and slower growth, recession 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:35.240 or worse. And it says there could also be erosion 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:40.800 of US competitiveness, harmed to American exports, reduced American influence 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:44.160 on the global stage. And they say it could provide 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:48.800 a major opportunity for China to caught our traditional allies 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:53.720 like South Korea, Japan and even Europe. Now Sky's Business 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:56.920 editor ross Green would also highlighted some of the concerns 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.960 around the potential impact of rising in flat and he 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:05.360 said even that could then lead to possible interest rate rises. 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:10.400 Perhaps Australia will be impacted by more goods coming in 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:14.120 from places like Cambodi, Vietnam and China, and we've got 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.360 to be very careful in this country that we don't 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:21.080 certainly find dump goods also affecting Australian jobs and Australian manufacturers. 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:28.120 Not all experts, though, agree global geopolitics experts Stephen Kotkin, 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:31.800 a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute at Stanford University, 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.880 challenged the view that Trump's posturing and the rebalancing that 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:39.119 he's set in motion signals that the US is retreating 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.200 from the world. He says, this is not about America 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:44.280 giving up its role in the world. All of that 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.920 is social media rubbish. This is about a rebalancing of 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:51.240 the costs and benefits, and it's happening, and it's mess 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.800 and Trum's version of it is going to maybe even 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.960 fail to produce a new equilibrium, but it's going to 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:02.800 break the current equilibrium that needed to be broken. So yes, 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:06.280 there are concerns about where this will all settle, and 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.760 the markets of course will be rocky in the meantime. 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:12.200 But as with anything to do with Trump, the reaction 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:20.879 today has been over the top and disproportionate. Okay, for 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.560 further analysis, let's bring in National Senator Matt Canavan and 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:29.679 leader of the WA opposition Basil Zemplus. Great to see you, guys. Matt. 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:33.640 There's been a very patronizing attitude towards these tariffs. But 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:36.680 this is what Trump campaigned on. It's what he said 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.760 he was going to do. It's why Americans, particularly in 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:41.920 the working class states, voted for it. 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:47.359 Well, Charry, I wish Donald Trump and the US administration 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:50.720 were to putting these tariffs on Australia, but I didn't 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:54.479 get a vote on the US presidency. He's been elected, 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:56.520 as you say, he was elected on that platform. What 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.240 we need to do is respond in the way we 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.120 best can to protect to Austraya's interest what we should do, 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:04.600 and it's been instructive this week that finally I see 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.200 the Prime ministers say that in his response to Donald 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:10.360 Trump's tariffs, he's going to put Australia first. Well, why 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.600 hasn't he been putting Australia first the whole time. What 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:15.679 is why has it taken Donald Trump for him to 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.400 say something like that and encourage people to buy Australian 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:20.560 made products. I actually think I have this sort of 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:26.119 sort of sneaking suspicion that Anthony Alberanez he actually was 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:30.439 relishing this outcome. He seemed almost giddy this morning. I 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:33.240 don't think he's put up much of a fight here 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:38.200 to try to stop these tariffs coming in. He's actually 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:40.720 most welcome this because it gives him something to campaign 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.760 on and apparently look tough, et cetera. But he's not 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.200 being tough. He's not being putting Australia first, because, as 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.360 you've just said in your editorial, he's smashing the Australian 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:52.719 people with higher energy prices, higher grocery prices. I mean, 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:54.800 if we're going to have this sort of reaction from 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:58.280 the Prime Minister for a ten percent tariff on some 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:00.800 of our exports to US, which just five percent of 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.280 our exports, if it's going to generate a cent tariff's 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:06.679 condgenerate that sort of outrage. Why isn't the Prime Minister 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:11.560 as outraged as the thirty percent increase in grocery prices 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:15.080 that Australian families have had to suffer under his leadership. 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:17.439 Why hasn't he focused on that? Why is he focused 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:20.080 on the self imposed tariffs that his government is placing 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:24.520 on our energy system, in our grocery supermarkets, through our 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:28.280 transport businesses as well, that are adding costs onto everybody. 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.159 I wish he was so angry. 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.919 About the damage he's doing to the Australian economy compared 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:37.040 to only being angry about the responses he doesn't like 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:38.280 being made by Donald Trump. 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.600 Yeah, such a good point, Basil. What's your view on 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:44.800 the tariffs but also how this played out today? Do 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.399 you agree with me that there was this overreaction to 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:51.199 what is quite is going to impact Australia really in 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:52.200 quite a minimal way. 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:55.200 Well that could be the case. 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:57.199 In fact, you could argue, and we won't know the 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.520 full effects until we get going through the process, but 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.840 you could argue that in fact Australian beef producers may 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:07.040 in fact end up being better off. Donald Trump is 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.600 playing to his base and by appearing to try and 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.440 stand up to Donald Trump. Although pretty mildly I agree 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.840 with Matt, the Prime Minister is playing to his bass 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:19.439 who you would naturally accept, not Donald Trump. 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:19.800 People. 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.000 That sort of makes sense, But I can't help watching 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:26.480 this think if Anthony Albanezi was serious, and we know 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.960 Donald Trump is a relationship guy, if he's trying to 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:32.439 make this election somehow a referendum on who's going to 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:35.800 deal better with Donald Trump and his tariffs, I think 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:38.440 he's playing into Peter Dutton's hands. Peter Dutton will get 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:40.680 on a plane, he'll get over there and he'll get 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:42.080 on well with Donald Trump. 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:43.800 And it feels to. 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:49.680 Me that relationships could have averted this tariff imposition that's 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.400 come on to Australia. And that's not a trump card. 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:55.400 Pardon the pun that Albaneze has played. And I've got 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.800 to say also the rud stuff now really coming back 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.399 to buy it. It was always going to it really 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:03.640 is now no absolutely well. 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.760 One thing that could make a difference in the negotiations 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:09.919 to have this ten percent lifted if it's worth it 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:14.440 is potentially removing those biosecurity protocols around American beef. It 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:18.359 is something that Angus Taylor says we should consider. I 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:21.200 asked him about this in a pre recorded interview. Have 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:23.600 a quick look but at. 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:25.160 The end of the day, I mean we should always 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:28.040 be looking at our biosecurity protocols and making sure they're 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:28.760 fit for purpose. 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:30.840 Something we should consider what. 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:34.639 We should always be considering those protocols, and we should 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:36.879 be asking our customers to consider them. 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:40.600 Matt, what do you think about this? I mean, mad 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:44.679 cow disease is extremely rare now in the United States. 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:47.600 As Andrew Bolt said earlier, people aren't getting sick in 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:50.040 America from eating beef, so why is it banned? 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:55.880 Look, Shari, you might expect me, as a Nationals Party politician, 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:57.879 to take a slightly different perspective on this. We're very 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:01.600 lucky to have a very strong biosecurity system and the 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:04.240 costs of having mad cow disease come to this country 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:06.040 would be in the tens of billions. I think it's 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:09.399 been measured at about forty billion dollar impact on Australia huge. 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:13.040 We'd have massive coals, these movements of cattle restricted. It 0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:14.960 would be horrible for our nation, so we want to 0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:16.800 keep it out now. In terms of the US, you're 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:20.040 right to say that since the US did have a 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:21.840 case in twenty two thousand and three or some case 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:23.639 twos and three they have got rid of it largely 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:27.160 in their own country. But the problem is the US 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:29.159 has not been able to assure us that the beef 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:31.280 that we would or could import from the US could 0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:34.840 not contain Mexican or Brazilian beef where there is mad 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:38.160 cow disease. Now it's not actually exactly true to say 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:41.240 that we ban American beef. We do allow American beef 0:22:41.280 --> 0:22:43.760 to come into Australia if it can show that it 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:47.680 is actually American beef. Unfortunately, the United States does not 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:49.920 have the kind of supply chain assurance that we do 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:52.879 in this nation, so they can't give us a guarantee 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:54.840 that what's in the box has actually come from a 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:58.119 Texas farm or a Californian farm, and not a farm 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:01.600 from south of the border. I support our biosecurity system. 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:05.240 I think our provisions here are rules here, are very reasonable. 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:08.600 We are happy to work for the US if they 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:11.480 can apply some kind of supply chain insurance that we 0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:12.400 have in this country. 0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:14.080 If they can do that, we're happy to talk. If 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:14.520 they can't. 0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:16.800 Look, we've got to put our biosecurity first. 0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:20.399 Okay, interesting look making news today, as well as the 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:22.080 fact that the Prime Minister had a bit of a 0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:24.080 tumble at a mining conference here. 0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:26.720 He was photos with everyone. 0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:51.640 Okay, perhaps since when ALBINIZI starts falling up the stairs 0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:53.920 like Joe Biden did that, we have. 0:23:53.960 --> 0:24:08.040 To worry, Basil. 0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:10.840 He actually tried to hold onto the leg of one 0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:13.520 of the union members that was there, but look he 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:15.520 was quick to recover and turn this into a joke. 0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:17.720 I guess these things happen and then they suddenly become 0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:19.480 a story when you're in the middle of a campaign. 0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:23.119 They do. I don't love that stuff. 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:25.600 I mean, I think they're cheap shots all round, and 0:24:25.680 --> 0:24:28.520 not anyone in particular that's taking them. But obviously they 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:30.639 become a story for the evening news. 0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:31.440 We get it. 0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:34.240 I don't think Australians generally love. 0:24:34.119 --> 0:24:35.080 That sort of stuff. 0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:37.720 Everybody's going to stumble or tumble at times, and I 0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:40.239 think a little bit of discretion and a little bit 0:24:40.240 --> 0:24:43.960 of fair play for everybody. Nonetheless grabbing onto the leg 0:24:44.080 --> 0:24:47.520 of a union official. Maybe it is representative of other 0:24:47.560 --> 0:24:50.320 things that are at play at the moment, and unfortunately 0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:53.600 these incidents always open themselves up through those sorts of lines. 0:24:54.359 --> 0:24:57.080 Indeed, they do, all right, Matt Canavan, Basil Zempler is 0:24:57.080 --> 0:25:00.680 great to see you as always on a Thursday. Okay, 0:25:00.760 --> 0:25:04.240 let's get some more analysis about Trump's tariffs, and I'm 0:25:04.280 --> 0:25:08.520 joined now by IPA senior fellow and chief economist Adam Crichton. Adam, 0:25:08.800 --> 0:25:13.320 thanks for your time. Look what's your take on these tariffs? 0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:17.240 Are they reciprocal at least with Australia and do you 0:25:17.320 --> 0:25:21.920 think are they're a bad idea? 0:25:22.280 --> 0:25:24.760 Well, just a few points there, Sharry, your editorial I 0:25:24.760 --> 0:25:26.919 think was very right. The Prime Minister's rhetoric is so 0:25:27.080 --> 0:25:29.879 over the top here. The implication is that the US 0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:33.240 has somehow put new taxes on Australians, but no Australian 0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:35.399 will be sending a single cent to the US treasury 0:25:35.440 --> 0:25:38.560 as a result of these tariffs. They are taxes on Americans, 0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:42.640 specifically American importers, and they will ultimately increase the prices 0:25:42.680 --> 0:25:45.000 of goods and services for Americans. So it's a quasi 0:25:45.040 --> 0:25:47.719 consumption tax, and I would argue that this is therefore 0:25:47.720 --> 0:25:51.240 a matter for the United States. In fact, as you 0:25:51.280 --> 0:25:54.560 also said, Australia ended up with the lowest rate of 0:25:54.640 --> 0:25:58.160 all applying to the imports from Australia, only ten percent. 0:25:58.200 --> 0:26:00.520 I think Japan got twenty percent, the European Union twenty 0:26:00.560 --> 0:26:03.040 four percent, so we've actually done pretty well out of 0:26:03.080 --> 0:26:05.960 this new policy of the United States. The second point 0:26:06.000 --> 0:26:08.560 is the fiscal situation in the US. There are two 0:26:08.640 --> 0:26:11.000 trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see, 0:26:11.040 --> 0:26:14.200 and these tariffs will raise about seven hundred billion dollars. Now, 0:26:14.240 --> 0:26:16.320 if the US government is not going to cut spending 0:26:16.560 --> 0:26:18.520 by two trillion dollars, and I don't think it will, 0:26:18.640 --> 0:26:22.600 then this is practically the only alternative alternative that it has. 0:26:22.680 --> 0:26:24.520 And just very quickly, finally, on all the doom and 0:26:24.560 --> 0:26:27.920 gloom forecasts, the stock market in Australia only fell by 0:26:27.920 --> 0:26:30.240 one percent today, which was a pretty small move. So 0:26:30.720 --> 0:26:33.959 certainly investors do not see these tariffs as the end 0:26:33.960 --> 0:26:35.119 of the economic world. 0:26:35.520 --> 0:26:37.359 Yeah, the stock market's one thing, and that's going to 0:26:37.400 --> 0:26:40.879 move around. But what about the concerns that some have, 0:26:40.960 --> 0:26:43.639 and including the Wall Street Journal mentioned this about how 0:26:43.720 --> 0:26:47.400 it could potentially the tariffs be inflationary. What's your view 0:26:47.440 --> 0:26:47.720 on that. 0:26:50.840 --> 0:26:51.720 Well, look, they could be. 0:26:51.920 --> 0:26:53.800 I mean the first round of tariffs, certainly they were 0:26:53.840 --> 0:26:56.840 much smaller in twenty eighteen from the first Trump presidency 0:26:56.880 --> 0:26:59.080 on China, but there wasn't such a huge impact on 0:26:59.160 --> 0:27:01.600 inflation back then, And I'd just be very wary of 0:27:01.640 --> 0:27:04.680 the economic consensus because certainly we've seen in the last 0:27:04.680 --> 0:27:07.440 ten years you know that the consensus of economists tends 0:27:07.480 --> 0:27:09.639 to get the big things wrong. So I would be 0:27:09.640 --> 0:27:12.280 reluctant to say that this is going to be hugely inflationary. 0:27:12.800 --> 0:27:15.680 We haven't seen huge changes in the ten year US 0:27:15.720 --> 0:27:18.199 bond yield, which suggests to me that the forecast for 0:27:18.240 --> 0:27:22.760 inflation haven't really changed a great deal. You know, these 0:27:22.800 --> 0:27:26.400 are basic. This is basically a huge quasi consumption tax 0:27:26.440 --> 0:27:28.440 on Americans from my point of view, So there will 0:27:28.480 --> 0:27:30.679 be an increase in price, but some of the burden, 0:27:30.720 --> 0:27:33.199 of course, will be born by the exporters from other countries. 0:27:33.240 --> 0:27:35.960 We just we don't know as yet kind of how 0:27:36.000 --> 0:27:37.359 the burden will actually fall. 0:27:38.160 --> 0:27:39.760 I want to ask you about a couple of other topics, 0:27:39.760 --> 0:27:43.280 but very quickly. While this has been Trump's policy for 0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:47.960 a long time, the current US Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant, 0:27:48.280 --> 0:27:52.000 he is considered to be pretty smart. He knows what 0:27:52.040 --> 0:27:56.960 he's doing. Would you agree with that, Oh. 0:27:56.840 --> 0:27:59.800 Certainly, yes, he's a multi billionaire. I think he's largely 0:27:59.840 --> 0:28:02.720 so made, almost entirely self made, very smart man and 0:28:02.840 --> 0:28:04.159 very highly respected in markets. 0:28:04.160 --> 0:28:05.320 I would say so he. 0:28:05.320 --> 0:28:08.080 Would know what he's doing here. I mean he's implementing. 0:28:07.480 --> 0:28:13.359 This, yes, yes, well, obviously he's implementing Donald Trump's policies. 0:28:13.400 --> 0:28:16.600 We don't know his private views necessarily, but he's certainly. 0:28:16.920 --> 0:28:19.720 He certainly puts himself out there as a very articulate spokesman. 0:28:20.520 --> 0:28:22.560 All right, just want to get your view. And a 0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:25.639 couple of other topics that have been big news today. Firstly, 0:28:25.680 --> 0:28:29.040 the issue of the Teals and their hypocrisy. It's front 0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:32.440 and center. They've been accused of double standards for refusing 0:28:32.480 --> 0:28:36.440 to comment on that inappropriate joke by the Bradfield Teal 0:28:36.560 --> 0:28:40.000 candidate Nicolette Bowl at the hair salon. The Liberals have 0:28:40.040 --> 0:28:42.800 put together an ad to highlight the point. If we 0:28:42.840 --> 0:28:47.080 have that, let's play it. As your member four keon, 0:28:47.360 --> 0:28:49.440 I will act with integrity and honesty. 0:28:49.920 --> 0:28:52.120 It's the question of do you practice what you preach? 0:28:52.320 --> 0:28:55.800 Teal MP already made headlines earlier this week accused of 0:28:55.840 --> 0:28:59.360 shouting at children in a quarrel with Liberal volunteers. 0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:04.440 Ryan's husband tearing down one of your liberal rivals campaign signs. 0:29:04.560 --> 0:29:07.920 There you go, Monique Ryan, there you go, Community values. 0:29:08.000 --> 0:29:10.720 It's been a really good day for integrity and transparency 0:29:10.920 --> 0:29:13.920 in Australia Parliament today. 0:29:14.920 --> 0:29:17.760 Adam, this is double standards, isn't it. Why can't they 0:29:17.800 --> 0:29:20.479 comment on their own inappropriate comment? 0:29:23.920 --> 0:29:26.200 Well, look, I think they're trying to play a small 0:29:26.200 --> 0:29:28.880 target strategy, like many politicians are in this election. I 0:29:28.880 --> 0:29:30.720 think I think it's fair to say overall the brand 0:29:30.760 --> 0:29:33.600 of the Teals has not done so well in the 0:29:33.640 --> 0:29:36.479 first week or so of the campaign. They haven't been 0:29:36.520 --> 0:29:38.960 falling off stages yet, but certainly you know, the hair 0:29:38.960 --> 0:29:41.960 salon joke, the core Flutes drama. It's not been a 0:29:41.960 --> 0:29:42.840 good first week for them. 0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:46.719 No, absolutely not. And the biggest revelation for me this 0:29:46.760 --> 0:29:49.000 week was when Ray Hardley told me that men don't 0:29:49.040 --> 0:29:52.520 get their hair washed in hair salons. I literally had 0:29:52.720 --> 0:29:55.000 no idea about that. I can't imagine a man leaving 0:29:55.000 --> 0:29:58.440 a hairdressing salon without getting their hair washed. Okay, well 0:29:58.440 --> 0:30:02.400 maybe you Adam, finally got to cover this story. Hamas 0:30:02.760 --> 0:30:08.280 has has admitted that seventy two percent of Palestinian deaths 0:30:08.440 --> 0:30:14.200 were combat aged men, so terrorists, and they've revised down 0:30:14.480 --> 0:30:18.880 their figures. This is quite extraordinary and we haven't really 0:30:18.920 --> 0:30:21.400 seen this broadly covered well. 0:30:23.360 --> 0:30:25.040 Certainly, that doesn't shock me at all. I mean, the 0:30:25.600 --> 0:30:27.920 first casualty of war is truth, and there's always an 0:30:27.960 --> 0:30:30.520 incentive for governments to exaggerate or to change figures to 0:30:30.560 --> 0:30:32.320 help their cause. And it would not shock me at 0:30:32.320 --> 0:30:34.600 all with the case of a mass here that they've 0:30:34.600 --> 0:30:39.479 been exaggerating the death figures to generate an emotional response 0:30:39.520 --> 0:30:42.000 around the world. So look, if there's any silver lining 0:30:42.040 --> 0:30:44.960 to this ongoing tragedy in the Middle East, at least 0:30:45.000 --> 0:30:46.760 they're trying to put out the correct figures, I guess, 0:30:46.840 --> 0:30:49.280 but they should have done that in the first place. 0:30:49.280 --> 0:30:50.880 But I think I think the broader lesson is don't 0:30:50.920 --> 0:30:54.360 seize on the casualty and the death figures of various 0:30:54.360 --> 0:30:57.000 governments in war time because they probably don't even know 0:30:57.000 --> 0:30:59.360 what they are themselves. But there's always an incentive to 0:30:59.480 --> 0:31:01.640 exaggerate for their own purposes. 0:31:02.120 --> 0:31:04.800 Or inflating death figures. I mean, we always knew that 0:31:04.920 --> 0:31:07.800 was the case, and now the proof starting to emerge. 0:31:07.840 --> 0:31:11.080 Adam Crichton, thank you very much for your time. Now 0:31:11.120 --> 0:31:14.080 still to calm the Albanezy government facing a battle between 0:31:14.080 --> 0:31:17.240 a wind farm and saving the koalas. I have that 0:31:17.520 --> 0:31:20.600 fascinating story in a moment, Plus, Angus Taylor tells me 0:31:20.640 --> 0:31:24.640 Australia is bound on American beef could be reconsidered. That's 0:31:24.720 --> 0:31:32.760 all coming up, welcome back. Or Albanizi and Tanya Plubisek 0:31:32.880 --> 0:31:35.640 have a new legal headache to contend with in their 0:31:35.760 --> 0:31:40.400 race to renewables. A Queensland environment charity has started legal 0:31:40.440 --> 0:31:44.080 action against the government as well as and Andrew Forrest 0:31:44.120 --> 0:31:48.560 backed renewable energy company. This is over concerns about a 0:31:48.600 --> 0:31:53.560 planned wind farm near a heritage protected wilderness, which it 0:31:53.680 --> 0:31:57.480 said will cause too much environmental damage. Joining us to 0:31:57.480 --> 0:32:02.120 discuss his associate editor and chief writer Theustralian, Christine Midup. Christine, 0:32:02.120 --> 0:32:06.000 this is a fascinating story. Can you tell us about 0:32:06.040 --> 0:32:08.040 this legal fight and what's behind it. 0:32:09.320 --> 0:32:13.160 Yes, So, this is a wind farm planned to be. 0:32:13.160 --> 0:32:16.880 Built just near the Wet Tropics World Heritage Area up 0:32:16.880 --> 0:32:19.800 in far North Queensland. It borders a National park and 0:32:19.800 --> 0:32:23.000 a state forest and it's quite environmentally rich area. So 0:32:23.040 --> 0:32:25.280 where the wind farm is going there's something like twenty 0:32:25.320 --> 0:32:28.560 two vulnerable or threatened species that live in that area. 0:32:28.720 --> 0:32:32.440 So This little group called Rainforest Reserves is a small 0:32:32.960 --> 0:32:36.000 charity in North Queensland. They do things like run at 0:32:36.000 --> 0:32:39.480 Cassowary Sanctuary, they plant trees, they buy up rainforest. 0:32:39.920 --> 0:32:42.280 But they've become increasingly concerned. 0:32:41.800 --> 0:32:44.840 About the damage to the environment from different renewal projects, 0:32:44.840 --> 0:32:47.880 particularly wind farms going down the sort of Great Dividing 0:32:47.960 --> 0:32:50.880 Range up in North Queensland and Central Queensland. So they 0:32:51.000 --> 0:32:54.800 decided they would take this case to court. It's actually 0:32:54.800 --> 0:32:57.920 being heard in the Federal Court at the moment. It's 0:32:57.960 --> 0:33:01.400 a difficult case this little charity. They don't have a 0:33:01.400 --> 0:33:03.200 lot of money. They've got about one hundred. 0:33:02.920 --> 0:33:03.760 And fifty members. 0:33:04.080 --> 0:33:08.360 They're up against the Federal government and all of their resources, 0:33:08.760 --> 0:33:13.280 and also against wind Lab, which is an Andrew Forrest 0:33:13.320 --> 0:33:13.920 back company. 0:33:15.320 --> 0:33:17.960 So there's been a lot of concerns in local communities 0:33:18.080 --> 0:33:22.080 about when farms like this one. And you've characterized this 0:33:22.160 --> 0:33:25.080 in your article in The Australian as the ultimate David 0:33:25.120 --> 0:33:27.360 and Goliath battle, as you say, it was in the 0:33:27.400 --> 0:33:31.640 Federal Court today. What's your feel on how this is 0:33:31.680 --> 0:33:34.920 going to go and whether the charity will have the 0:33:35.000 --> 0:33:37.000 finances to continue this battle. 0:33:38.200 --> 0:33:42.240 Well, it's a difficult case. And their lawyers will accept that. 0:33:42.320 --> 0:33:45.160 It's a difficult case because they can't just bring on 0:33:45.200 --> 0:33:46.880 a case that says this is going to cause so 0:33:46.960 --> 0:33:47.520 much damage. 0:33:47.520 --> 0:33:50.360 I mean, we're talking about six hundred hectares of habitat. 0:33:49.920 --> 0:33:57.280 That supports Koala's vulnerable wallabies, lots of birds and bat species. 0:33:58.040 --> 0:34:00.360 So they can't just argue about the damage. They have 0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:02.280 to pick out a judicial argument. 0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:04.720 And so this is turning on very sort of technical 0:34:04.760 --> 0:34:09.000 approval conditions as part of this sort of overall decision. 0:34:09.280 --> 0:34:11.719 So it's not an easy case to bring. It's an 0:34:11.800 --> 0:34:13.799 uphill battle. I mean, I think they've really got it 0:34:13.800 --> 0:34:15.480 ahead of them, but I think what they really wanted 0:34:15.480 --> 0:34:17.319 to do as well, is, you know, they wanted to 0:34:17.360 --> 0:34:20.680 do something. This group has become really concerned about the 0:34:20.760 --> 0:34:25.239 damage to the environment and they want to highlight that 0:34:25.440 --> 0:34:27.120 and this is one way for them to do it. 0:34:28.080 --> 0:34:30.720 We've seen, and I don't know how widely you've reported 0:34:30.760 --> 0:34:33.480 on these sort of issues, but we have seen communities 0:34:33.480 --> 0:34:36.480 in other areas concerned about the impacts that when farms 0:34:36.520 --> 0:34:40.160 could have on say the whale population. So this isn't 0:34:40.200 --> 0:34:43.319 just limited to this charity in this area, is it. 0:34:44.400 --> 0:34:44.920 No, it's not. 0:34:45.000 --> 0:34:46.600 I mean if you go all the way down from 0:34:46.640 --> 0:34:50.480 far North Queensland down through central Queensland, down through northern 0:34:50.480 --> 0:34:52.719 New South Wales into Victoria. I mean I wrote about 0:34:52.760 --> 0:34:55.719 Kusiosco National Park on the weekend, which has got a 0:34:55.800 --> 0:34:58.840 major scar going through it now to build transmission lines 0:34:58.880 --> 0:35:00.840 to get the energy out of snow two point zero. 0:35:01.040 --> 0:35:04.480 There are widespread concerns about the environmental damage due to 0:35:04.920 --> 0:35:07.400 really poor planning. I think about a lot of the 0:35:07.440 --> 0:35:11.480 renewables rollouts, and a lot of scientists I speak to 0:35:11.760 --> 0:35:13.640 also say they see problems with this. 0:35:14.480 --> 0:35:17.520 The bigger environmental groups green groups are a bit more 0:35:17.520 --> 0:35:18.160 silent on it. 0:35:18.200 --> 0:35:20.040 They don't want to do anything to sort of dampen 0:35:20.960 --> 0:35:21.640 the rollout. 0:35:22.440 --> 0:35:25.680 But smaller groups environmental groups, they are really standing up 0:35:25.719 --> 0:35:28.120 now and saying we have to do something before you know, 0:35:28.200 --> 0:35:30.120 this gets to a point that we can't turn back. 0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:35.240 Yeah. Yeah, fascinating reporting and a really worrying issue. Christine 0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:38.839 mid Upp, thank you so much for your time. All right, 0:35:38.920 --> 0:35:42.080 still to come, a high profile defamation lawyer Nicholas Pullen 0:35:42.160 --> 0:35:45.080 will give his verdict on how the explosive recording of 0:35:45.160 --> 0:35:48.280 Nick McKenzie could impact the Ben Robert Smith case. 0:35:48.640 --> 0:35:48.960 Plas. 0:35:48.960 --> 0:35:52.480 Angus Taylor weighs in on the Trump impact of those tariffs. 0:35:52.520 --> 0:35:59.640 That's after this quick break. Returning now to tonight's top story, 0:36:00.160 --> 0:36:03.040 Trump's trade tariffs. Well for more insight into what this 0:36:03.280 --> 0:36:07.120 means for Australia, our economy and how the Coalition would 0:36:07.120 --> 0:36:10.480 handle this, I spoke a little earlier to Shadow treasurer 0:36:10.560 --> 0:36:13.839 Angus Taylor. Angus Taylor, thank you very much for your time. 0:36:14.000 --> 0:36:15.359 Great to be with your shary. 0:36:15.600 --> 0:36:19.680 Dominating the agenda today, of course, are Donald Trump's trade tariffs. 0:36:19.680 --> 0:36:23.920 He slapped the lowest ten percent on all Australian imports 0:36:23.920 --> 0:36:26.920 to the United States. He says they're reciprocal. Do you 0:36:26.960 --> 0:36:27.640 agree with him? 0:36:27.960 --> 0:36:28.680 No, I don't. 0:36:29.200 --> 0:36:32.799 We don't have tariffs on American goods coming into Australia 0:36:32.840 --> 0:36:35.560 of anything like that kind of magnitude. We haven't had 0:36:35.560 --> 0:36:38.359 a free trade agreement with the United States for nine 0:36:38.480 --> 0:36:43.360 twenty years now, and that's been important in facilitating trade 0:36:43.600 --> 0:36:46.400 and good trade between Australia and the US, including our 0:36:46.400 --> 0:36:50.279 exports of beef and so I don't accept that, but 0:36:50.640 --> 0:36:54.120 I do think there's real rumors they're always with Don 0:36:54.400 --> 0:36:57.160 is with Donald Trump to negotiate a better outcome, and 0:36:57.200 --> 0:37:01.560 the government should be acting now to ensure that we're 0:37:01.560 --> 0:37:04.120 in a position where we can negotiate a better outcome 0:37:04.480 --> 0:37:06.640 with Donald Trump. One of the things we know, for instance, 0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:11.400 with beef exports, is that American beef consumers will have 0:37:11.440 --> 0:37:13.160 to pay more as a result of this because they're 0:37:13.160 --> 0:37:13.719 short of beef. 0:37:13.760 --> 0:37:14.160 Right now. 0:37:14.280 --> 0:37:17.399 The beef herd has dropped significantly because of drought. There's 0:37:17.400 --> 0:37:19.920 still rebuilding, and so I think there's a real opportunity 0:37:19.920 --> 0:37:20.319 for us. 0:37:20.239 --> 0:37:21.400 To get in and negotiate. 0:37:21.560 --> 0:37:25.239 The problem is this government hasn't had good relationships with 0:37:25.320 --> 0:37:28.480 this administration as we did with the last Republican administration, 0:37:29.160 --> 0:37:31.160 and the result is they're not in a position to 0:37:31.239 --> 0:37:33.440 get in and negotiate the sorts of outcomes we should. 0:37:34.280 --> 0:37:37.120 Could he be referring to our goods and services tax 0:37:37.160 --> 0:37:40.680 of ten percent when he talks about having reciprocal tariffs. 0:37:40.680 --> 0:37:43.439 Sure, they might be talking about that, but that's not discriminatory. 0:37:43.840 --> 0:37:48.080 It's applied equally to imported goods versus domestic goods. There's 0:37:48.120 --> 0:37:51.880 no difference in the regime between inputs and domestic purchases. 0:37:51.960 --> 0:37:54.800 So how that can be seen as a discriminatory tariff 0:37:54.800 --> 0:37:56.640 against inputs makes no sense. 0:37:57.120 --> 0:38:00.640 We have also had a five percent customs duty, including 0:38:01.160 --> 0:38:04.640 when the Coalition was in government. So again the customs duty, 0:38:04.680 --> 0:38:08.480 that's not really really any different to an import tariff 0:38:08.680 --> 0:38:10.080 that Trump's speaking about, is. 0:38:10.040 --> 0:38:12.200 It, except that it didn't apply in the case of 0:38:12.200 --> 0:38:14.120 the United States because we had a free trade agreement. 0:38:14.400 --> 0:38:18.120 So that's a default tariff which applies very rarely these days, 0:38:18.480 --> 0:38:21.840 only to a very small proportion of traded goods, because 0:38:21.880 --> 0:38:23.160 at the end of the day, we've got free trade 0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:26.000 agreements with most countries which we put in place, which 0:38:26.040 --> 0:38:28.960 we put in place. So the important point here is 0:38:29.000 --> 0:38:30.719 that the free trade agreements have put us in a 0:38:30.760 --> 0:38:34.120 position where our customs duty doesn't apply. GST is not discriminatory, 0:38:34.440 --> 0:38:37.520 and so the result is this is a tariff being 0:38:37.560 --> 0:38:41.520 imposed which is not reciprocal and it will hurt American consumers. 0:38:41.600 --> 0:38:43.880 But we've got a government that simply doesn't understand the 0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:47.840 beef market frankly, but also more importantly doesn't have the 0:38:47.880 --> 0:38:50.640 connections into the administration we had that. I saw that 0:38:50.719 --> 0:38:53.000 personally when I was the Minister for Cybersecurity with the 0:38:53.040 --> 0:38:57.200 last administration. I worked on the decision we made on Huawei, 0:38:57.880 --> 0:39:01.080 working closely with the United States throughout that we had 0:39:01.120 --> 0:39:05.920 a very close relationship because Joe Hockey was essential to that. 0:39:06.160 --> 0:39:08.680 The last phone call the Prime Minister's had with Trump 0:39:09.200 --> 0:39:11.520 was on February the tenth, so it has been a 0:39:11.520 --> 0:39:16.239 long time. The President today spoke about Australia's ban on 0:39:16.320 --> 0:39:19.800 beef expots from the United States. The reason that was 0:39:19.840 --> 0:39:23.399 in place was by security reasons mad cow disease. That's 0:39:23.520 --> 0:39:26.520 no longer an issue anymore, so should that be lifted. 0:39:26.520 --> 0:39:27.359 Well, it's not a ban. 0:39:27.480 --> 0:39:31.680 It requires certain protocols to be followed if beef. 0:39:31.480 --> 0:39:33.680 Is effectively is to come in. 0:39:34.160 --> 0:39:35.520 But at the end of the day, I mean we 0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:38.319 should always be looking at our bios security protocols and 0:39:38.360 --> 0:39:40.919 making sure they're fit for purpose. And you know that's 0:39:40.920 --> 0:39:44.320 something that we take Well, I'm not going to appinn 0:39:44.360 --> 0:39:45.960 on that one now. I think that's one where you 0:39:46.000 --> 0:39:47.640 take advice from the experts. 0:39:47.800 --> 0:39:48.800 Something we should consider. 0:39:49.520 --> 0:39:53.160 What we should always be considering those protocols and we 0:39:53.200 --> 0:39:55.440 should be asking our customers to consider them. I mean, 0:39:55.480 --> 0:39:58.840 I worked very hard to get Australian cherries into Asian markets, 0:39:58.880 --> 0:40:02.480 and we worked very hard to get protocols changed, and 0:40:02.480 --> 0:40:05.279 we should always be seeking to do that. But when 0:40:05.320 --> 0:40:08.440 I take a step back, the Coalition has been always 0:40:08.440 --> 0:40:10.439 been the one to open up these markets and get 0:40:10.440 --> 0:40:14.399 this working. We've understood the markets, We've represented agricultural parts 0:40:14.440 --> 0:40:17.279 of Australia much more than the Labor Party, and we've 0:40:17.280 --> 0:40:21.879 had deep, deep links into the last Trump administration and 0:40:21.920 --> 0:40:24.360 we can do that again. But you've also got to 0:40:24.400 --> 0:40:28.000 be prepared to say this is unacceptable and we have 0:40:28.040 --> 0:40:31.480 a strong relationship with the US. We have done throughout 0:40:31.480 --> 0:40:34.239 our history and we can do better than this. 0:40:34.920 --> 0:40:37.960 Donald Trump is emerging as a dominant figure in this 0:40:38.080 --> 0:40:42.520 election campaign. Somewhat surprisingly, the research in the published polls 0:40:42.560 --> 0:40:45.960 show that Australians are concerned about Trump. They view him 0:40:45.960 --> 0:40:50.120 as erratic and unreliable. Do you think this is working 0:40:50.160 --> 0:40:53.800 as a negative for Peter Dutton and the Coalition because 0:40:53.880 --> 0:40:56.640 Albin Ezi is comparing Dutton to Trump. 0:40:57.160 --> 0:40:59.400 Look, Albenezy will do that. He's desperate. 0:40:59.440 --> 0:41:02.040 It's student politics every day of the week with this guy, 0:41:02.400 --> 0:41:05.200 and the same with his treasurer. I mean, let's focus 0:41:05.239 --> 0:41:07.600 on the main issues here. This is a government that 0:41:07.640 --> 0:41:10.240 has absolutely failed to deal with the cost of living crisis. 0:41:10.239 --> 0:41:13.920 We've got our standard of living has collapsed. It's been unprecedented, 0:41:14.120 --> 0:41:16.640 worse than any of our peer countries in the world. 0:41:16.680 --> 0:41:17.680 We're not going to get back to. 0:41:17.600 --> 0:41:19.600 Where we were when we were asking government under their 0:41:19.640 --> 0:41:21.920 plan until the twenty thirty. 0:41:22.560 --> 0:41:25.640 This is a hopeless situation for Australia to. 0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:27.920 Be And the worst part of this is we are 0:41:27.960 --> 0:41:30.759 seeing an uncertain world and the Reserve Bank Governor, in 0:41:30.800 --> 0:41:33.000 her statement earlier in the week, used the word uncertainty 0:41:33.000 --> 0:41:36.400 five times. We are in a more uncertain world than 0:41:36.440 --> 0:41:38.719 we have been for a long time, and yet the 0:41:38.800 --> 0:41:41.760 government has left us in a position where we don't 0:41:41.800 --> 0:41:45.319 have the buffers. Our government budget is reading as far 0:41:45.360 --> 0:41:48.960 as the eye can see, and household budgets have been decimated, 0:41:49.239 --> 0:41:52.359 so our capacity to absorb shocks that might come through 0:41:52.840 --> 0:41:55.120 is not anything like it was. 0:41:55.200 --> 0:41:56.759 And that's that bad situation to be. 0:41:57.440 --> 0:42:00.600 Just on the IRBA you mentioned the governor. Of course, 0:42:00.760 --> 0:42:04.080 the RBA didn't even have a discussion about cutting rates 0:42:04.080 --> 0:42:06.879 in this board meeting. Do you think that shows that 0:42:06.960 --> 0:42:10.080 the rate cut at the last board meeting was premature 0:42:10.160 --> 0:42:12.360 and even potentially politically motivated. 0:42:12.920 --> 0:42:15.160 Look, I'm not going to comment on Reserve Bank decisions. 0:42:15.200 --> 0:42:18.040 I mean I think that ultimately should be left to 0:42:18.040 --> 0:42:20.319 be independent. What I do know is I think the 0:42:20.320 --> 0:42:23.320 government has made it harder for them to cut interest rates. 0:42:23.640 --> 0:42:26.279 Core inflation in Australia has remained higher than other peer 0:42:26.360 --> 0:42:28.640 countries across the world, and that, at the end of 0:42:28.680 --> 0:42:31.120 the day makes it harder for the Reserve Bank to 0:42:31.120 --> 0:42:36.239 bring down interest rates. We've also seen the government projecting 0:42:36.400 --> 0:42:38.919 ready as far as the eye can see. That makes 0:42:38.920 --> 0:42:41.400 it harder to bring down interest rates. So it's not 0:42:41.440 --> 0:42:44.800 surprising that we're being slow to see the reductions in interestrates. 0:42:44.840 --> 0:42:47.759 And of course we've seen between three and seven cuts 0:42:47.800 --> 0:42:51.000 in Canada and Europe, in New Zealand in the UK, 0:42:51.880 --> 0:42:53.800 and of course that's not been the case here. 0:42:54.040 --> 0:42:56.080 All right, Angus Taylor, really appreciate your time in the 0:42:56.080 --> 0:42:57.320 middle of a busy campaign. 0:42:57.480 --> 0:43:00.480 Good to be with you, Shary all right. 0:43:00.560 --> 0:43:04.319 Coming up next, high profile defamation lawyer Nicholas Pullen will 0:43:04.360 --> 0:43:07.640 give his verdict on how that explosive recording of Nick 0:43:07.680 --> 0:43:11.480 McKenzie could impact on the Ben Robert Smith case. That's next. 0:43:15.880 --> 0:43:18.600 Welcome back. Well. There will be a two day hearing 0:43:18.680 --> 0:43:21.600 on May first and second in the Federal Court for 0:43:21.719 --> 0:43:25.560 Victoria Cross recipient Ben Robert Smith to argue his case 0:43:25.920 --> 0:43:29.920 that the defamation judgment made against him should be set aside. 0:43:29.960 --> 0:43:32.520 This is in light of the audio recording where nine 0:43:32.600 --> 0:43:37.200 journalist Nick McKenzie admitted to breaching his ethics. He also 0:43:37.239 --> 0:43:40.799 admitted to obtaining part of Robert Smith's legal strategy. 0:43:42.080 --> 0:43:44.400 No, I shouldn't tell you I've just breached my ethics 0:43:44.560 --> 0:43:46.440 doing that. Like this is where like this is to 0:43:46.600 --> 0:43:50.320 really cheap position. There if they knew that impeting you, 0:43:50.400 --> 0:44:01.040 that actively breaking us on his legalship, you respected you 0:44:01.320 --> 0:44:03.919 like the his piece, and yet we're not learning about 0:44:04.000 --> 0:44:06.799 we anticipated most of it. One or two things now 0:44:06.880 --> 0:44:09.000 we know, which is helpful. But he's about. 0:44:10.480 --> 0:44:14.200 Ben Roberts, Smith's father, the former Justice of the Supreme Court, 0:44:14.320 --> 0:44:17.360 Len Roberts, released his statement earlier this week where he 0:44:17.400 --> 0:44:20.560 said there were questions about what legal strategies of Ben's 0:44:20.840 --> 0:44:25.160 McKenzie was referring to questions too, about what privileged information 0:44:25.520 --> 0:44:29.000 or material Ben's ex wife, Emma and her friend Dannielle 0:44:29.040 --> 0:44:32.600 Scott told McKenzie or gave to him. Len Roberts also 0:44:32.640 --> 0:44:35.640 said further, if mackenzie was prepared to speak to Person 0:44:35.760 --> 0:44:38.759 seventeen as he did, on the recording. Did he have 0:44:38.880 --> 0:44:43.680 similar conversations with other witnesses? If so, who and what 0:44:43.719 --> 0:44:47.400 did is say to them? Now Nine has denied any 0:44:47.600 --> 0:44:51.560 journalistic breaches or any breach of their legal strategies as well. 0:44:51.600 --> 0:44:55.759 They have launched a full defense accusing everyone else of 0:44:55.760 --> 0:44:59.960 a smear campaign without properly answering questions now to analyze 0:45:00.120 --> 0:45:02.560 how this could affect the case. Joining me now is 0:45:02.560 --> 0:45:06.560 an expert in defamation law media law partner at HWL 0:45:06.640 --> 0:45:09.840 Absworth Lawyers, Nicholas Pull and Nicholas thank you for your time, 0:45:10.360 --> 0:45:13.120 and we should just add for full disclosure that you 0:45:13.320 --> 0:45:16.760 acted against Nine in a case representing an orthopedic surgeon. 0:45:16.880 --> 0:45:21.160 It's concluded, but it is awaiting final judgment. Now, Nicholas, 0:45:21.200 --> 0:45:24.600 what do you think the legal ramifications of this recording 0:45:24.640 --> 0:45:25.080 could be. 0:45:28.040 --> 0:45:33.279 The ramifications really need to be assessed once, certainly once 0:45:33.320 --> 0:45:36.440 submissions are made and evidence which has to be provided 0:45:36.440 --> 0:45:39.680 by a fidavit material before first of May, as you've mentioned, 0:45:40.600 --> 0:45:45.160 comes out. At the moment, it really is speculative concerning 0:45:45.680 --> 0:45:49.680 what impact this is going to have, but one can 0:45:49.760 --> 0:45:54.760 say quite clearly that what we're looking at are issues 0:45:54.760 --> 0:45:59.520 that go to credit of witnesses, and how that assessment 0:45:59.560 --> 0:46:02.799 of credit that was made by the trial judge in 0:46:02.880 --> 0:46:09.480 the case has been affected perhaps by the representations that 0:46:09.520 --> 0:46:13.040 have being made by Ben Robert Smith's lawyers. 0:46:14.600 --> 0:46:17.960 So talking about that credit issue, then, in the judgment, 0:46:18.280 --> 0:46:22.800 the judge did not find Person seventeen's evidence sufficiently reliable 0:46:22.880 --> 0:46:27.239 to accept that her serious allegations were true, but he 0:46:27.320 --> 0:46:31.520 also did not accept Robert Smith's evidence regarding Person seventeen. 0:46:32.160 --> 0:46:35.239 So how could this rejection of Robert Smith's evidence in 0:46:35.280 --> 0:46:40.200 relation to Person seventeen have influenced potentially the judge's view 0:46:40.360 --> 0:46:43.359 of Ben Robert Smith's credibility when it then came to 0:46:43.400 --> 0:46:46.400 the war crimes witnesses and allegations. 0:46:47.760 --> 0:46:48.439 Yeah, well, this. 0:46:48.360 --> 0:46:52.800 Is certainly going to one of the very salient points 0:46:52.880 --> 0:46:56.640 in this matter. And I've also noticed some media commentators 0:46:56.719 --> 0:47:00.440 have in a sense tried to categorize the issues of 0:47:00.719 --> 0:47:05.640 credit carrying over from issues concerning Witness seventeen and other 0:47:05.800 --> 0:47:14.520 issues concerning what occurred in Afghanistan. Now, you can't box, 0:47:14.600 --> 0:47:19.040 you can't categorize a person's credit in relation to one 0:47:19.080 --> 0:47:23.640 set of instances and be ignorant or certainly not take 0:47:23.680 --> 0:47:26.800 them into account in the other instances in the same trial. 0:47:27.280 --> 0:47:30.720 I think that this is certainly what this is certainly 0:47:30.800 --> 0:47:33.840 what Ben Robert Smith's lawyers will be going for. Ben, 0:47:34.040 --> 0:47:40.400 don't forget even though witness seventeen was not fully accepted 0:47:40.520 --> 0:47:45.120 credit wise in the trial judge assessment, it was preferred 0:47:45.120 --> 0:47:50.400 over the assessment made on many issues regarding Witness seventeen 0:47:51.760 --> 0:47:53.960 over Ben Roberts Smith by the trial judge. 0:47:55.560 --> 0:47:57.600 Now, as I said, nine has said that they haven't 0:47:57.600 --> 0:48:01.840 breached their journalistic or legal ethics. Given we now know 0:48:01.960 --> 0:48:05.640 that Ben Robert Smith's emails were accessed both in relation 0:48:05.719 --> 0:48:09.160 to Person seventeen and in relation to his marriage breakdown, 0:48:09.800 --> 0:48:12.480 do you think it's reasonable to ask whether other emails 0:48:12.480 --> 0:48:15.360 were accessed in relation to other areas of the case. 0:48:17.600 --> 0:48:22.520 Well, this is certainly the thrust of Ben Roberts Smith's lawyers. 0:48:22.680 --> 0:48:29.880 That is, that information has been accessed that was legally privileged. 0:48:30.360 --> 0:48:32.919 This is part of the information that they're looking for 0:48:33.000 --> 0:48:36.560 as to whether or not any other information has been accessed. 0:48:36.800 --> 0:48:41.480 So it really remains to be seen what the nature 0:48:41.560 --> 0:48:44.280 of that evidence, sorry, what the nature of that information 0:48:44.400 --> 0:48:49.840 or that was gained. We can only speculate in relation 0:48:49.920 --> 0:48:53.200 to what that is and clearly it's not worth while 0:48:53.200 --> 0:48:54.959 going down that avenue right now. 0:48:56.080 --> 0:48:58.560 So just explain to us how this appeal will work. 0:49:00.840 --> 0:49:04.759 Look, that's a good question in the sense that it's 0:49:04.800 --> 0:49:08.880 not usual. I mean, after all, it's the appeal has 0:49:08.920 --> 0:49:12.200 occurred and there has been an application on for an 0:49:12.239 --> 0:49:18.080 amended appeal to take into account what is being said 0:49:18.080 --> 0:49:18.359 to be. 0:49:20.880 --> 0:49:23.080 Well in the application, a miscarriage of justice. 0:49:23.760 --> 0:49:30.120 Now it's been indicated that if the application is successful, 0:49:30.160 --> 0:49:34.200 it's been indicated that in fact a trial could happen 0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:36.879 before the full Court. At the moment, that's a bit 0:49:36.960 --> 0:49:38.560 up in the air. It's a bit hard to read 0:49:38.600 --> 0:49:40.760 the ruins on that one, but it has been mentioned 0:49:40.800 --> 0:49:45.319 by the judge hearing the application that that is a 0:49:45.320 --> 0:49:47.279 possibility it could be heard before the full court. 0:49:48.120 --> 0:49:50.759 Not fascinating, all right, Nicholas Pullan, thank you very much 0:49:50.800 --> 0:49:53.960 for your insights tonight, and everyone, thank you so much 0:49:53.960 --> 0:49:56.239 for your company this week. Thanks for watching. Next week 0:49:56.360 --> 0:49:58.800 is going to be huge. We've got the Leader's debate 0:49:58.960 --> 0:50:02.239 on Tuesday night, first time Albanesi and Dutton will be 0:50:02.360 --> 0:50:04.759 up against each other. Then the treasure is debate on 0:50:04.800 --> 0:50:07.840 Wednesday night. It's all heating up. Have a lovely weekend, 0:50:07.960 --> 0:50:09.520 and right now, here's Paul Murray.