1 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm christanaming it. 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: It's Thursday, January twenty two, twenty twenty six. It's the 3 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: Writer's festival drama that's crashed out of the literary world 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: and into the mainstream. The cancelation of Adelaide Writer's Week 5 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: following a mass author boycott. Now the controversial author at 6 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: the center of it all is back on the bill. 7 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: But is that the right move for the festival and 8 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: for us all. That's today's episode. 9 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 2: This pre date seven October. This is seventy five years 10 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 2: of settler colonialism and violence against Palestinians. 11 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: This author, Randa abdel Fatah, is at the center of 12 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: a raging controversy. At the start of January, organizers of 13 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: the Adelaide Writers Week announced the anti Israel author had 14 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: been disinvited from the twenty twenty six event. They cited 15 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: cultural sensitivities as the reason for her axing following the 16 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: Bondai Beach terror attack on December fourteenth, where fifteen people 17 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: were killed and dozens more were injured when two gunmen 18 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: opened fire on a Harneker by the Sea event. Abdelphatar 19 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: is a Muslim woman, a lawyer, academic, and activist. She's 20 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: also a vocal supporter of Palestine and is fiercely anti Israel. 21 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: She celebrated the October seven, twenty twenty three attack by 22 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: her mass militants where more than twelve hundred Jews were 23 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: kidnapped and slaughtered, and has called for the destruction of 24 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: Israel on more than one occasion. She says she's not 25 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: an anti Semite, but many Jewish leaders disagree. Randa Abdelfhatar 26 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: was invited to Adelaide Writer's Week by Louise Adler to 27 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: promote her new novel called Discipline, which follows two Muslims 28 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: through Ramadan, the holiest month in the Islamic calendar. It's 29 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: set against the backdrop of the Israel Hamas war and 30 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:11,239 Speaker 1: is the first book she's written for an adult audience. Previously, 31 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: she's written predominantly for children and young adults. The backlash 32 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: to her dumping from Writer's Week was swift and brutal. 33 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 1: Within days, one hundred and eighty authors withdrew from the festival, 34 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: and sponsors quietly retreated its program suddenly barren The twenty 35 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 1: twenty six Adelaide Writers Week, which was due to get 36 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: underway in late February as part of the Adelaide Festival 37 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: was canceled. Then several members of the festival's board quit, 38 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: along with Writer's Week director Louise Adler. 39 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 2: I think when we look back on this history, we 40 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 2: will see a masterclass in poor governance, an act of 41 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 2: cultural vandalism. 42 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: A heated debate about cultural sensitivity, extrememism, political influence and 43 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: protection for free speech erupted. Abdelphatar claimed South Australian Premier 44 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: Peter malanowskis defamed her Twice. Premier Peter Malanowskus is accused 45 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: of defamation. Today served a concerns notice from the lawyer 46 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: of the ousted author, and then Abdelphatar was back. The 47 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: new Writer's Week board invited the author back for the 48 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven event and issued a grovelling apology. 49 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: We obviously believe this is the right thing to do 50 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: at this time. It is not a light decision to make. 51 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: There really was a need for an apology and that 52 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 2: is the view of this board. 53 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: Caroline Overington is The Australian's literary editor. Caroline the Adelaide 54 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: Writers Week and festivals like it have become quite politically charged, 55 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: but what's actually selling and what we've talked to you 56 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: about on the front in the past is romanticy. So 57 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: should writers' festivals and book weeks like this one stay 58 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: in that lane? Or is this politicized, highly charged version 59 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: just what they are now. 60 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 2: No, I don't think it is what they are now, 61 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 2: and I also don't think it's what the audience wants. 62 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: I think what the audience wants is to talk about 63 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 2: books and ideas and competing ideologies. But I think they 64 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 2: want to do it in an old fashioned way, which 65 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 2: is to say, a collegiate way, a kind way, a 66 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 2: fair way. They want a writer's festival to be part 67 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 2: of the community they don't want, and I don't think 68 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 2: anyone wants really a writer's festival. That's just people banging 69 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 2: a drum over and over again the same points of view. 70 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 2: Nobody else will be heard, and what they want is 71 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 2: to feel joyful. I mean, I hope I'm not naive 72 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 2: about that, but I don't want to hear the same 73 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 2: arguments I could just get if I tuned into a 74 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 2: very old, bad version of Q and A. 75 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: The Adelaide Writers' Week is of course government funded, but 76 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,239 Speaker 1: it doesn't appear to have government oversight. Is it even 77 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: worth it for governments to throw these kinds of events 78 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: or would they be better off investing those quite substantial 79 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: funds elsewhere. 80 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 2: I think the government has to support the arts. I 81 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 2: think they do because who else is going to put 82 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 2: on a writer's festival like that. We need the government 83 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: to provide some support for us. And there are private 84 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 2: philanthropists too. I don't make a song and dance about it, 85 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 2: but they do put in money because this is something 86 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 2: they're proud of and they want to see more of. 87 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 2: I'm not convinced that the government should just withdraw. I 88 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 2: am convinced that the government has no role to play 89 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 2: in the programming. I really believe that. I think that 90 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 2: a really good artistic director, a really passionate artistic director, 91 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 2: a fair minded artistic director, can put together a program 92 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 2: that people want to see, and can put together a 93 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 2: program that doesn't result in one hundred and eighty people quitting. 94 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 2: I worry that the idea that Australia is the kind 95 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 2: of place where you can come and see these amazing 96 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 2: cultural events, he's going to slip from our grasp because 97 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 2: we're so completely polarized and unwilling to talk to each 98 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 2: other and unwilling to meet each other in a state 99 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 2: of grace. 100 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: You are yourself an author of more than a dozen books. 101 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: You live in the literary world. What are you hearing 102 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: from authors and publishers in the fallout of Adelaide Writer's Week? 103 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: Are they in despair or are they viewing this as 104 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: an opportunity to reset how things are done going forward? 105 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,679 Speaker 2: Can I be honest? The feeling is sorrow, It's something 106 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 2: akin to grief. I can't I've tried, but I can't 107 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 2: ever properly explain what this festival meant to Australia. It is, 108 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 2: without question, the oldest and the most popular, the most 109 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 2: egalitarian and the only free writers festival in Australia. It 110 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 2: is a beautiful cultural bloom on the landscape. Or it was. 111 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 2: It's a tragedy that we have lost this festival, an 112 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 2: absolute tragedy, and that is the feedback that I am 113 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 2: getting from writers all across Australia, publishers as well. They 114 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 2: can't believe it that something that was so precious has 115 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: slipped out of our hands. Imagine the tens of thousands 116 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 2: of people who were intending to go who had booked 117 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 2: hotel rooms, who were excitedly looking forward to it, who 118 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 2: wanted to take their children, who feel pride in their 119 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: state because their state hosts a world class literary festival, 120 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 2: and you feel proud of it, and you turn up 121 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 2: and you sit there and you have a great day 122 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 2: and you talk about it with your friends, and they 123 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 2: can't do that. And I am distraught about it, as 124 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 2: I think most people. 125 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: Are coming up can Adelaide recapture the magic? 126 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 2: How quickly we turned on each other with glaring looks, 127 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 2: turned back and sorrow we left you to walk away. 128 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: This is the author Kate Llewellyn reading a verse from 129 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: a poem she wrote in the Fallout of the Adelaide 130 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: Writer's Festival Fiasco. At ninety Llewellyn has attended every Adelaide 131 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: Writer's Week except the first, which was held in nineteen sixty. 132 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 1: Here's Caroline Overington. 133 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 2: She missed the first one because she was pregnant, and 134 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 2: she went along to the second one and she said 135 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 2: straight away, I just knew this was going to be 136 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 2: something amazing for Australia. And she started writing poems of 137 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 2: her own. She's now written I think twenty five books 138 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 2: six of them are collections of poetry. She's really the 139 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 2: best placed, I think, to talk to us, all of 140 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 2: us about what Adelaide Writers' Festival means to the country, 141 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 2: and how devastating it is that it's gone just wiped 142 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 2: away so idly, so casually, as if it hardly matters 143 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 2: at all, when in fact it was a duel. 144 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me a bit about katela Wellens's reaction to 145 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: the circumstances surrounding the cancelation of the twenty twenty six 146 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: Adelaide Writers Festival. 147 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 2: She's written a beautiful poem about this, which we're publishing 148 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 2: in the paper, and she talks about the way the 149 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 2: Writer's Festival was meant to be not at all controversially 150 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 2: about writing. It was about writers. So John Updight came, 151 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 2: Ted Hughes came. People would talk about their books, how 152 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 2: they came to write them, where they got the idea, 153 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 2: whether they thought they pulled it off, and they knew 154 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 2: as a reader could go and buy the book and 155 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 2: decide for yourself. What Kate says is that when Louise 156 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 2: Adler took over the Writer's Festival in twenty twenty three, 157 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 2: it almost immediately became more political. I think that is 158 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 2: a trend that has been coming for a while. The 159 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 2: idea became more about ideas and political ideas in particular 160 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 2: repitting people against each other. You might remember, I certainly 161 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 2: do that. The twenty twenty three festival was mired in 162 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,599 Speaker 2: controversy because Louise had decided to have a day particularly 163 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 2: for Palestinian writers, and she invited a bunch of people 164 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 2: from overseas and they came out and some of them 165 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 2: had these really dodgy social media accounts where they said 166 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 2: quite inflammatory things and there wasn't a lot of counter 167 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 2: opinion coming in. It wasn't a balanced discussion. But it 168 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 2: really came to a head this year because initially we 169 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 2: were all told that a Palestinian Australian writer had been disinvited, 170 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 2: and that was true, so she'd received an invitation from 171 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 2: Louise Adler and then the invitation had been rescinded. Now 172 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 2: I don't know a single writer, or very very few 173 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 2: who could tolerate that, because most people, most writers believe 174 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 2: in free speech. Their free speech absolutists actually, they believe 175 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 2: that you have a right to have your say, however 176 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 2: apparent it might be. To me, what nobody knew at 177 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 2: the time was that the same people had been advocating 178 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,839 Speaker 2: for the exclusion of other writers from this festival and 179 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 2: from other festivals. So we know, for example, that Randa 180 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 2: abdel Fatar had urged the board to disinvite a Jewish writer, 181 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 2: Thomas Friedman, a Politzer Prize when he writer from The 182 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 2: New York Times just two years earlier. And we know 183 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: that she signed a petition about Deborah Conway, a Jewish 184 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 2: guitar player and singer. And I guess one of the 185 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 2: things that Kate was saying, and many writers I know 186 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 2: are now saying, is we didn't know that. We didn't 187 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 2: know that the wholesale cancelation of writers was happening across 188 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 2: the board to all kinds of people, and that the 189 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: people who were standing up and saying, you know, free 190 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: speech and don't censor us, were engaged in censorship or 191 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 2: a temp set censorship themselves. That is what has most 192 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 2: shocked people and hurt people. It has hurt people because 193 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 2: they're people of goodwill who wanted to stand up for 194 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 2: someone who was being canceled, only to find that she 195 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 2: had been involved in the attempted cancelation of others herself. 196 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: Just lastly, Caroline, if we cast our minds forward to 197 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven, of course, Randa abdel Fata has now 198 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: been reinstated on the lineup for next year's Adelaide Writer's Week. 199 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: Do you think it can recapture some of that magic 200 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: that you've talked about next year, noting everything that's gone on? 201 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 2: You know, I don't know why they did that, and 202 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 2: I think it's a mistake, not because it's arounda I 203 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:49,959 Speaker 2: think it's a mistake because I think they need to 204 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 2: take this time to reset. I think now that it's happened, 205 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 2: I mean, it's a tragedy that it's happened, But now 206 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 2: that it's happened, it's a good idea. I think to 207 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 2: let the new board settle and think about the kind 208 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 2: of festival they want to be, and think about the 209 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 2: kind of atmosphere they wish to bring to it and 210 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 2: what goodness they wish to put in the world. What 211 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 2: do we want to do? Do we want to be 212 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 2: divisive and ugly and political and obsessed with events of 213 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 2: the day, or do we want to be grace filled 214 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 2: and generous and warm and entertaining and electrifying and I 215 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 2: think that that takes time. They really need this time 216 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 2: to just recalibrate, take a deep breath, think about how 217 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 2: do we go forward. 218 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: Caroline Overington is The Australian's literary editor. For all the latest, 219 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: visit the Australian dot com dot au