1
00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,600
Speaker 1: Hi everyone, Kelly Taylor here for this week's Mojo Monday.

2
00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,680
Speaker 1: So last week was part two of the Becoming Mentally

3
00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,840
Speaker 1: Fit series and we talked about mindset through the lens

4
00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,799
Speaker 1: of psychological flexibility, and this week is actually part two

5
00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,479
Speaker 1: A because I thought that mindset being such a huge

6
00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:35,200
Speaker 1: topic and having so many different theories and approaches out there,

7
00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:40,000
Speaker 1: I thought it was worth doing another mindset episode. So

8
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,320
Speaker 1: if you have been listening to Mojo Monday right from

9
00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,360
Speaker 1: the start, you will know that Paul and I used

10
00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,919
Speaker 1: to do these together, so I thought it would be

11
00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,680
Speaker 1: great to get him back on as my guest on

12
00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:56,440
Speaker 1: Mojo Monday on the Paul Taylor Podcast to talk about mindset.

13
00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:57,840
Speaker 1: So welcome Paul Taylor.

14
00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:00,320
Speaker 2: It's nice to be here.

15
00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,520
Speaker 3: Thank you for inviting me on after all this time.

16
00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,800
Speaker 1: It has been a while, I know. And the reason

17
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,080
Speaker 1: you stopped going It was supposed to be a temporary

18
00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,679
Speaker 1: thing is because you and knee deep in your PhD,

19
00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,440
Speaker 1: weren't you and writing a book, and so that's why

20
00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,280
Speaker 1: I kind of took over. And then yeah, you've just never.

21
00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:22,080
Speaker 4: Come back, that's right, other than a live back of

22
00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:23,320
Speaker 4: the truth been all listeners.

23
00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,959
Speaker 3: But anyway, I am here for a guest appearance.

24
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,440
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, banjir PhD is submitted and the book is

25
00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:31,959
Speaker 1: nearly done, so yes, and that's really funny.

26
00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:33,480
Speaker 3: The book is done.

27
00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,480
Speaker 4: I am just doing the edits on it now, so

28
00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,000
Speaker 4: it's gone finished.

29
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:39,759
Speaker 2: The manuscript that went to the editor.

30
00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,640
Speaker 4: They have done the lit lelots and I'm just approving

31
00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:45,119
Speaker 4: the last of the edits.

32
00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:46,720
Speaker 2: So it's yeah, yeah, it's good.

33
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,400
Speaker 3: Good get that ticked off.

34
00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,880
Speaker 1: It is. Yeah, second book, that's that's an amazing achievement.

35
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,680
Speaker 1: So let's talk about mindset. And I thought it would

36
00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,240
Speaker 1: be good to talk to you in the looking at

37
00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:04,000
Speaker 1: mindset when we have big challenges, and you went through

38
00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,160
Speaker 1: a challenge recently, well we all did, given i'm your wife.

39
00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,000
Speaker 1: It was a challenge for me as well that you

40
00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:14,320
Speaker 1: had open heart surgery, which is huge thing to go

41
00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,800
Speaker 1: through and a lot of uncertainty in the lead up

42
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,919
Speaker 1: to it. So I thought maybe we could talk about

43
00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,480
Speaker 1: how you managed your mindset in the lead up to

44
00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:24,240
Speaker 1: that operation.

45
00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:30,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it was really quite interesting when my cardiologist

46
00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,440
Speaker 4: told me that we'd done an assessment actually for maybe

47
00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,559
Speaker 4: just to take a step back for the people.

48
00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:38,680
Speaker 2: Who don't know. Most listeners would be familiar with it.

49
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,560
Speaker 4: But I played soccer with a cardiologist, and because I

50
00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,239
Speaker 4: was in the fifties, I said to him, he amio it.

51
00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,799
Speaker 4: I want to get a full check to see how

52
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,600
Speaker 4: my heart's going. So he did all sorts of difference.

53
00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,000
Speaker 4: He did a stress test, he did a cardiac MRI,

54
00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,000
Speaker 4: he did a number of different things, but anyway, and

55
00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,639
Speaker 4: he talked about the rooms, the plumbing, and the electrics,

56
00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,560
Speaker 4: the rooms being the different chambers, the plumbing being your valves,

57
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,360
Speaker 4: and the electrics being all your electrical activity and contractions

58
00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,560
Speaker 4: and all that sort of stuff. And it turns out

59
00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,560
Speaker 4: that he found out that I was born with a

60
00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:19,399
Speaker 4: dodgy valve, a die customd a ortic valve rather than

61
00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:20,240
Speaker 4: try cuspid.

62
00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,280
Speaker 2: So he told me, as you know.

63
00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,920
Speaker 4: That I needed to have open heart surgery or eventually

64
00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:26,600
Speaker 4: it would.

65
00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,280
Speaker 2: I would get heart failure or it would kill me.

66
00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,720
Speaker 3: And so but said that there was no rush.

67
00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,760
Speaker 4: And I remember him saying and said, you know, go

68
00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:38,960
Speaker 4: and chat to your family, take your time, and I said, look,

69
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,840
Speaker 4: I want to get it done soon because my view

70
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:47,360
Speaker 4: on these things, probably with my ex military bent, is

71
00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,920
Speaker 4: that when you're going in for a contest or you're

72
00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,000
Speaker 4: going to war, you do it on your terms and

73
00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,800
Speaker 4: when you're strong and your opponent's weaker. And I knew

74
00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,880
Speaker 4: if I weighed, I was going to be older, and

75
00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:05,320
Speaker 4: my heart was going to be weaker, you know. And

76
00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,200
Speaker 4: some people were like, why are you doing it now

77
00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,400
Speaker 4: if you don't absolutely have to, But that's really why

78
00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:09,880
Speaker 4: I did it.

79
00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,440
Speaker 3: But I remember walking out.

80
00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,280
Speaker 4: Of the surgery and the words of Seneca just rang

81
00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,480
Speaker 4: in my head. The stoic philosopher I pitied the man

82
00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:25,160
Speaker 4: who has not faced adversity because he has not faced

83
00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,320
Speaker 4: an opponent, and nobody, not even him, knows what he

84
00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:34,080
Speaker 4: is capable of. And I actually thought that this is

85
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:38,359
Speaker 4: my worthy opponent. And I went straight in to a

86
00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:44,800
Speaker 4: challenge orientation. And probably just because I've read so much stoicism.

87
00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,919
Speaker 4: I'm writing a book on hardiness. One of it is

88
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,640
Speaker 4: around challenge orientation, and I've read a lot about this

89
00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,560
Speaker 4: whole idea of challenge and threat. So maybe i'll explain

90
00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:00,560
Speaker 4: that a little bit and explain my kind of mindset

91
00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,560
Speaker 4: because the research, and I was very familiar with this

92
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:10,440
Speaker 4: is that if you view adversity as a threat, it

93
00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:16,520
Speaker 4: has a very different impact on your physiology and how

94
00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,080
Speaker 4: you deal with that. Then if you view it as

95
00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,120
Speaker 4: a challenge. So when you view something as a threat,

96
00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,840
Speaker 4: it basically eroade your motivation. And I think to take

97
00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,160
Speaker 4: a step back here, this has to be something that

98
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,720
Speaker 4: you care about and that you're interested in, right, And

99
00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,960
Speaker 4: then we tend to quickly evaluate stuff when it comes

100
00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,000
Speaker 4: up and we decide in our brain subconsciously or consciously

101
00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,839
Speaker 4: whether that's a challenge or a threat. And if you

102
00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,400
Speaker 4: decide that it is a threat and start focusing on

103
00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:52,599
Speaker 4: the bad stuff that could happen, it actually activates cortisol,

104
00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,599
Speaker 4: the major stress hormone. If you view it as a challenge,

105
00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,960
Speaker 4: it activates the or flight nervous system fight flight freeze.

106
00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,800
Speaker 4: They're called the SAM axis. But the fight part the

107
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,880
Speaker 4: engage part. Now that's important for two reasons. Number One,

108
00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,800
Speaker 4: when you view it as a challenge, then you have

109
00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:18,640
Speaker 4: motivation to actually lean into that challenge.

110
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,840
Speaker 2: It affects your.

111
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:26,520
Speaker 4: Motivation to do stuff. It affects your engagement level. But

112
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,520
Speaker 4: it also affects your hormones, so it activates adrenaline and

113
00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,839
Speaker 4: nora adrenaline. Whereas when you view it as a threat,

114
00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,680
Speaker 4: you tend to have avoidance behaviors, right, So you either

115
00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,880
Speaker 4: procrastinate or you try and hide from that thing. You

116
00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,160
Speaker 4: try to avoid it, so it affects your motivation, it

117
00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:48,920
Speaker 4: affects whether or not you engage with this particular piece

118
00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:53,159
Speaker 4: of adversity, and then it drives cortisol. Now this is

119
00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:59,240
Speaker 4: important for people to understand because the challenge response adrenaline

120
00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,160
Speaker 4: and nora adrenaline, and the half life of those chemicals

121
00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,960
Speaker 4: is around one to two minutes, so that means one

122
00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,880
Speaker 4: or two minutes after that event, those chemicals have dropped

123
00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,280
Speaker 4: in half in your body. So after four or five

124
00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,920
Speaker 4: six minutes, your body is back to what we call homeostasis,

125
00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:22,120
Speaker 4: whereas if you're in a threat response, cortisol is released

126
00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,680
Speaker 4: and the half life of cortisol is an r to

127
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,480
Speaker 4: two hours, so that means that ours later, there's still

128
00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,920
Speaker 4: significant amount of stress hormones running through your body, even

129
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:38,400
Speaker 4: if you're not thinking about it right, which then has

130
00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,119
Speaker 4: knock on effects because it can then affect your sleep

131
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,920
Speaker 4: that night, particularly if this is something that you've been

132
00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,000
Speaker 4: thinking about later in the evening, it's going to affect

133
00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,080
Speaker 4: your sleep, and then your sleep then effects your physiology

134
00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,200
Speaker 4: the next day and all sorts of knock on effects. Right,

135
00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,000
Speaker 4: So that's one thing, the physiology, but then it's about

136
00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,160
Speaker 4: your level of motivation, and you're in gagement with this thing,

137
00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,160
Speaker 4: and with that challenge orientation, that's when you get on

138
00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,840
Speaker 4: the front foot and you lean in and you're highly

139
00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,920
Speaker 4: motivated to deal with it, whereas with the threat, you're

140
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,520
Speaker 4: not motivated at all. You tend to procrastit it, you

141
00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:15,920
Speaker 4: tend to avoid, you tend to height And.

142
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,760
Speaker 1: I know, I walked into the bathroom and you'd written

143
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:24,080
Speaker 1: up on the bathroom mirror are worthy opponents. And this

144
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,920
Speaker 1: is before you'd even had a conversation with me about

145
00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:31,400
Speaker 1: that Seneca saying, and so I was like, what the

146
00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,320
Speaker 1: hell is this? And then you explained it to me.

147
00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,200
Speaker 1: And then even in the process of leading up to

148
00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:43,600
Speaker 1: the operation, you were trying to get as fit as possible,

149
00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:49,240
Speaker 1: as strong as possible. You were meditating every night. And

150
00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:55,360
Speaker 1: so I guess that's where that challenge orientation comes in,

151
00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,920
Speaker 1: where you're motivated to you were motivated to be in

152
00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,080
Speaker 1: the best shape that you would be for the operation

153
00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:03,640
Speaker 1: and for the recovery afterwards.

154
00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:08,600
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and that's why I wrote worthy opponent on my

155
00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:09,520
Speaker 4: bathroom Mrror.

156
00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,600
Speaker 3: I'd actually remembered a conversation.

157
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,640
Speaker 4: That I'd had with the made of mine, reg who

158
00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:19,440
Speaker 4: was an ex Lieutenant colonel Special Forces to the Australian

159
00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:25,920
Speaker 4: military and he led the special forces into Iraq said

160
00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,480
Speaker 4: it was Kuwait in the first in the first golf War.

161
00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,920
Speaker 4: And I'd asked him one day we were having coffee

162
00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,520
Speaker 4: and I said, you know, how did you feel when you.

163
00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:37,480
Speaker 2: Were going to war?

164
00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,120
Speaker 4: Because I was in the military but I never went

165
00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,720
Speaker 4: to war. And he said to me, he said it

166
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:43,920
Speaker 4: was it was interesting. He said I obviously had a

167
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,600
Speaker 4: bit of nerves going in, but he said the overwhelming

168
00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:52,000
Speaker 4: feeling was a perverse sense of excitement because this is

169
00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,240
Speaker 4: what we had trained for. And I actually thought, when

170
00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,839
Speaker 4: I was driving home, I'm going to borrow that attitude

171
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,440
Speaker 4: because we get to choose how we respond. I mean,

172
00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,840
Speaker 4: you talk about this a lot. We do get to

173
00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,120
Speaker 4: choose our attitude. And I actually, as I was driving home, went,

174
00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,800
Speaker 4: this is what it's all been for all.

175
00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:11,600
Speaker 2: Of my training.

176
00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,720
Speaker 4: I remember at university playing soccer, doing pre season training,

177
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,720
Speaker 4: running up hill, doing hill sprints and running till I

178
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,079
Speaker 4: threw up, and then getting up and running again.

179
00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:22,600
Speaker 2: And I used to pride myself on that.

180
00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,960
Speaker 4: And you know, my military training when me and a

181
00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,959
Speaker 4: bunch of unhinged meates who you know, quite a few

182
00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:30,520
Speaker 4: of them, used to get up in the morning and

183
00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,840
Speaker 4: do voluntary log runs up and down the hills, you know,

184
00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:38,600
Speaker 4: my combat survival training. I started to think, the everything

185
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,360
Speaker 4: here has been to train me for my worthy opponent,

186
00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:45,480
Speaker 4: all my ice baths, the CrossFit stuff, and so I

187
00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,840
Speaker 4: decided I was going to embrace my open heart surgery

188
00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,680
Speaker 4: as a worthy opponent. And I actually got to choose

189
00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,080
Speaker 4: the arena and got to choose when it was going

190
00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:01,760
Speaker 4: to happen, and critically had some time to prepare myself

191
00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,000
Speaker 4: to be the best that I could possibly be. So

192
00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,600
Speaker 4: I actually viewed this as an opportunity to bring out the.

193
00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:08,520
Speaker 2: Best in myself.

194
00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,800
Speaker 4: And actually I actually hit the fifty to fifty to

195
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,120
Speaker 4: fifty challenge, which I'd been flirting around a little bit,

196
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,320
Speaker 4: but because I really dug into my training, really cut

197
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:20,920
Speaker 4: back on my alcohol, I hit that fifty to fifty

198
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:22,719
Speaker 4: to fifty. I don't know if you have even told

199
00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,600
Speaker 4: you about this. So that's in your fifties to have

200
00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,600
Speaker 4: a VEO two max over fifty, to have your heart

201
00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,680
Speaker 4: rate variability over fifty, and to have your resting heart

202
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,760
Speaker 4: rate below fifty and if you do that, you're in

203
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,400
Speaker 4: pretty exceptional shape. And that actually got me over the line.

204
00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,000
Speaker 4: And as you know, on my bathroom murror, I wrote

205
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:47,840
Speaker 4: my training program so that every morning I actually saw

206
00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,680
Speaker 4: this and Epictetus, you know, his words in my mind,

207
00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,560
Speaker 4: even though when I first knew it was it was

208
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:56,640
Speaker 4: going to be probably six or eight months before it

209
00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,160
Speaker 4: was going to have the operation. Epicititus is the Olympi

210
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,920
Speaker 4: Games are upon us. We do not have a day

211
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,360
Speaker 4: to waste. So for me, it was like every day

212
00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:07,559
Speaker 4: is training day.

213
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,160
Speaker 1: And I just I love that and this is just

214
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,720
Speaker 1: this is so, this is what mental fitness is about.

215
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,920
Speaker 1: It's like we are training when the big challenges hit.

216
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:23,400
Speaker 1: And even before you knew about your heart surgery, I mean,

217
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:31,480
Speaker 1: this is laying those foundations of exercise, mindset, nutrition, slight connection,

218
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,200
Speaker 1: all that stuff is laying that foundation so when life

219
00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,199
Speaker 1: does throw us those curve balls, we are better prepared

220
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:40,119
Speaker 1: for them.

221
00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:40,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

222
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,160
Speaker 4: Look, one of my favorite quotes, as you well know,

223
00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:48,080
Speaker 4: is from Apictitis, historic philosopher who said, we must all

224
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:52,360
Speaker 4: undergo a hard winter training and not enter into lately

225
00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,400
Speaker 4: that for which we have not prepared and he was

226
00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:57,480
Speaker 4: talking about life.

227
00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,920
Speaker 3: So you know, the storics knew that life.

228
00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,360
Speaker 4: Is whole, so you need to train for it. Now,

229
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,880
Speaker 4: this brings us back to the challenge orientation. So what's

230
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,840
Speaker 4: critical in challenge orientation is that you can.

231
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,719
Speaker 3: Only really, you know, fully be.

232
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:19,000
Speaker 4: In that challenge orientation if you believe that you have

233
00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,160
Speaker 4: the resources to deal with the threat.

234
00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:23,360
Speaker 2: Right. So this is really critical.

235
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,199
Speaker 4: And how do you know that you have the resources

236
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:32,400
Speaker 4: because you've done stuff before that's hard, right. And this

237
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:37,600
Speaker 4: is I think hugely important for parents to understand. I

238
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,640
Speaker 4: think we're coddling our kids far too much. You know,

239
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,679
Speaker 4: as you will know, my biggest issue whenever we had

240
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,920
Speaker 4: kids was, you know, being brought up in Belfast in

241
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,600
Speaker 4: the nineteen seventies in a mixed marriage, as a Catholic

242
00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,280
Speaker 4: living in a Protestant neighborhood was really reasonably resilience building.

243
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,360
Speaker 4: And we're bringing our kids in a bubble within a

244
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:00,800
Speaker 4: bubble within a bubble.

245
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,240
Speaker 3: All right, And I was like, how do you bring

246
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,679
Speaker 3: up resilient kids? And that's where.

247
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:06,880
Speaker 2: I think we both agree.

248
00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,880
Speaker 4: I think you've told my first suggestion, which was to

249
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,600
Speaker 4: take them through a kiddie version of combat survival it

250
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:15,640
Speaker 4: was just interrogation training.

251
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:17,360
Speaker 1: I think there are a few things I said no

252
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,880
Speaker 1: to with our kids that are from a very young age.

253
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,320
Speaker 1: I think he had them in stress positions at one point.

254
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:26,520
Speaker 1: It was a very It was all supervising.

255
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,200
Speaker 3: It's okay, that was Oscar.

256
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,680
Speaker 4: He wanted to know what it was like when I

257
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,600
Speaker 4: went through interrogation training, so I put him through a

258
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:37,520
Speaker 4: little bit of it.

259
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,320
Speaker 2: It's just quite funny. Anyway. We probably shouldn't talk about it.

260
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:42,000
Speaker 1: No, we shouldn't.

261
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:48,560
Speaker 4: But but this, this is the thing, is to understand,

262
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,600
Speaker 4: whether you're a leader, or you're a parent, or you're

263
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:57,160
Speaker 4: a coach of of of kids doing sport or whatever,

264
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:02,920
Speaker 4: is to give them challenge. Is that just stretched them

265
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,520
Speaker 4: right that are within their capabilities or just outside of

266
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,880
Speaker 4: their capabilities. They are a push they could then achieve

267
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,000
Speaker 4: it because this is the stuff that builds what I

268
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:18,760
Speaker 4: call the challenge muscle. Right, we have to deliberately work

269
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:23,280
Speaker 4: on our challenge muscle so that we build our faith

270
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,600
Speaker 4: in ourselves that we can actually confront or deal with stuff.

271
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,400
Speaker 4: Whenever the big shit sandwich comes in and it's linked

272
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,480
Speaker 4: to the stocktaal paradox, which you know, I'm a massive

273
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,000
Speaker 4: fan of and when Oscar went through his Cushing's disease,

274
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,880
Speaker 4: he had it on his bathroom mirror. You know, the

275
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,200
Speaker 4: stocktail paradox is from Jim Stocktaal who spent seven and

276
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,320
Speaker 4: a half years in the Hanoi hilt in prison camp.

277
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,360
Speaker 2: Was brutally tortured I think.

278
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,200
Speaker 4: Eighteen times, spent four years in solitary confinement because they

279
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,240
Speaker 4: were trying to break him. But he used actually Epictetus's

280
00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,360
Speaker 4: teachings to get him through. But the Stocktail paradox is

281
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 4: that you need to that you need to hold two

282
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,960
Speaker 4: seemingly opposable things in your mind at the same time. Firstly,

283
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,080
Speaker 4: you need to retain the faith that you will prevail

284
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,560
Speaker 4: in the end, regardless of your circumstances. And at the

285
00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,160
Speaker 4: same time, you have to confront the most brutal aspects

286
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:17,840
Speaker 4: of your reality, whatever.

287
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:18,040
Speaker 2: They might be.

288
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,640
Speaker 3: So as you know, I didn't bury my head in

289
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:21,040
Speaker 3: the sand.

290
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,960
Speaker 4: You know, the second thing that I did after I

291
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,120
Speaker 4: wrote my training program on my bathroom mirror is that

292
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:31,840
Speaker 4: I went and researched the heart surgery because we talked

293
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,640
Speaker 4: about the different options for me. So I researched the

294
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,120
Speaker 4: options and then you know, we decided on something called

295
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,800
Speaker 4: the Ross procedure where they take your pulmonary valve out

296
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,080
Speaker 4: and they use it as the donor valve, and then

297
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,560
Speaker 4: they get a separate donor and put that in your

298
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,920
Speaker 4: palmary valve. And it's a bit more complicated, but a

299
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,800
Speaker 4: lot better outcomes. So I wanted to know all the outcomes.

300
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,120
Speaker 4: I wanted to know the death rates on the table

301
00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:02,080
Speaker 4: so that I was fully prepared, but not to dwell

302
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,879
Speaker 4: on it. Just saw that I could then go into

303
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,359
Speaker 4: action to mitigate that. Yeah, and that's part of the

304
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,399
Speaker 4: stock deal paraduct. You can't just bury your hand in

305
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,879
Speaker 4: the sound and go She'll be right. You've got to

306
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,520
Speaker 4: actually look at what are all the risks here, what's

307
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,360
Speaker 4: the chances of it happening, and how do I mitigate

308
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:20,280
Speaker 4: for those risks.

309
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, you also had momento Mauri in mind as well,

310
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,719
Speaker 1: which is remember you can you will die, or remember

311
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,639
Speaker 1: you can die because you you actually went over to

312
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,320
Speaker 1: the UK to go and see your family and your friends,

313
00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,520
Speaker 1: And that would have been a hard decision to make

314
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,560
Speaker 1: because it was based on that, well, if this happens,

315
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,840
Speaker 1: then I want to go and see all my mates.

316
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well I called it mate, just in Case visit.

317
00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:52,480
Speaker 1: That's I'm sure I love that.

318
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,280
Speaker 4: Oh my minutes thought it was hilarious, but it was

319
00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,639
Speaker 4: it was a you know what, I actually thought about it,

320
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,679
Speaker 4: and I thought, I knew the chances were pretty slimy, right,

321
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:03,600
Speaker 4: yeah it's less.

322
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,080
Speaker 3: Than one percent, but it was just in case.

323
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,880
Speaker 4: Yeah it's less than one percent, And I thought, well,

324
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,160
Speaker 4: I actually back myself because it's one percent.

325
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:14,719
Speaker 3: Of all people going through that surgery.

326
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,240
Speaker 2: I mean, they're so freaking good at it now.

327
00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,280
Speaker 4: And I thought, well, look, I'm pretty fit, I'm pretty

328
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,119
Speaker 4: healthy compared to the average person with open heart surgery,

329
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,280
Speaker 4: just because I was born with it. And then I thought,

330
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,600
Speaker 4: well I can. I can improve my odds by getting

331
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:29,160
Speaker 4: myself in.

332
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:30,280
Speaker 2: The best shit possible.

333
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,800
Speaker 4: But there's still a slight chance. And so what would

334
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,960
Speaker 4: I regret if just In kis right? And so that's

335
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,119
Speaker 4: why I went and had my just In Kis visit

336
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:42,800
Speaker 4: in the UK.

337
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,600
Speaker 1: So what would you say to those people who they

338
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,920
Speaker 1: might look at you and kind of go, well, yeah,

339
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,320
Speaker 1: you've got this history of being in the military, You've

340
00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:57,600
Speaker 1: gone through some pretty challenging comeback survival, you know, living

341
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,840
Speaker 1: in Belfast, and you know you've had a few hardships

342
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:07,439
Speaker 1: there what about a people who may not necessarily have

343
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:12,400
Speaker 1: a challenge orientation now it's more around threat, but they

344
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,480
Speaker 1: want to change, It's like how would they go about that?

345
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 2: Yeah?

346
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,440
Speaker 4: Well, look, look, I think the first thing is to

347
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,720
Speaker 4: create your best self or you know the concept of

348
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,920
Speaker 4: the seeds that we talk about, so actually to write

349
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 4: down the character traits that you know that you have

350
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 4: when you're at your down best. And the best way

351
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 4: to do that is think about your biggest achievements in

352
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 4: your life, write them down, and then write down what

353
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:43,000
Speaker 4: character traits did you have to exhibit to get through

354
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:47,520
Speaker 4: that stuff. So the more you reflect on having gone

355
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:52,159
Speaker 4: through difficulties and then and then you create this best

356
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,840
Speaker 4: version of you. So my best version is called JEV.

357
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,840
Speaker 4: As you know, J for Jim Stock, deal E for Epictetus,

358
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,879
Speaker 4: V for Victor Frankel. And often I asked myself, and

359
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,080
Speaker 4: that was actually the first question I asked myself on

360
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,679
Speaker 4: the way home, was what would JEV do? You know

361
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 4: he would he would see this as a worthy opponent.

362
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 4: He would lean into it, right, And then it's it's

363
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 4: about building your capability to deal with stress. So you know,

364
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,760
Speaker 4: this is things like doing exercise that makes you uncomfortable

365
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,919
Speaker 4: because you're actually going I'm actually doing this to build

366
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,399
Speaker 4: my challenge muscle, to build my capability to deal with

367
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,120
Speaker 4: the inevitable shit sandwich that's.

368
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 2: That's around the corner.

369
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,400
Speaker 4: You know, three three things you can guarantee death taxes

370
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 4: and shit sandwiches from the universe. So it's about building

371
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 4: that through hard exercise, coal shars, ice baths, psychologically doing

372
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 4: stuff that makes you uncomfortable. I think you know one

373
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 4: of your clients you talked about that she went into

374
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 4: public speaking because she was shit scared of public speaking,

375
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 4: so she went and actually joined groups and and did that,

376
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 4: which I thought was just absolutely brilliant. You know, you've

377
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 4: got to do stuff that gets you out of your

378
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 4: comfort zone.

379
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:10,160
Speaker 3: That's key.

380
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:16,239
Speaker 4: And I think the words of Stan Beacham, who's been

381
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 4: on my podcast a couple of times, and I love this.

382
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,919
Speaker 4: He says, every nine and men, So this isn't a daily,

383
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 4: weekly thing, but every nine and Anne, you need to

384
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 4: walk right to the edge of yourself and you need

385
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 4: to stir into the abyss and work out what the

386
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 4: abyss tells you, and then you walk back and you

387
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 4: take it on board. And every nine and then you

388
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 4: learn the lessons in every nine and then you walk

389
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 4: back to the edge and you find that over time

390
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,120
Speaker 4: you have to walk further to get to the edge.

391
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 4: I think everybody understands what that means, but it is

392
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 4: it's this hard winter training.

393
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:53,879
Speaker 2: That the Stoic's talked about.

394
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 4: So if you're somebody who is easily stressed, you know,

395
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,640
Speaker 4: it's a combination of in in the moment when you're stressed,

396
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 4: doing your breathing, you know, getting control of your physiology,

397
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 4: and then shifting it into a challenge orientation like what

398
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,120
Speaker 4: would your best self do or what would somebody who

399
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 4: you admire do, Because we can choose how we respond,

400
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,439
Speaker 4: we can choose how we react to our circumstances. But

401
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 4: I think it's that combination of the thinking about it,

402
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 4: the visualization, the reframing stuff as challenges, but also then

403
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 4: training yourself so you get that heartiness edge over time

404
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,439
Speaker 4: that you're doing hard stuff that's physically and psychologically hard,

405
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 4: so you build that challenge muscle, so you then eat

406
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 4: it's easier for you to slip into the challenge orientation.

407
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I think that's great, and I think

408
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: that's that's something that I have done personally, because as

409
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: you know, like you know, public speaking is when I

410
00:22:55,160 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: first started doing talks, I was a wreck, a wreck,

411
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: but I was Yeah, you probably could describe it as that.

412
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 3: I mean it.

413
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: Certainly having that feeling made me. It motivated me to

414
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: work harder and be prepared. Sometimes that can be a

415
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 1: bit of a perfectionist tendency is to over prepare. But

416
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,360
Speaker 1: it certainly motivated me. But I know the more that

417
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 1: I do talks now and go through that, the easier

418
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: it has become. And that's not to say that I

419
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 1: don't still get nervous, but I approach the nerves as

420
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: a positive thing because I need them to prepare, I

421
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 1: need them to motivate me, So they're not something that

422
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: I shy away from now. So I think that acceptance

423
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 1: as well. It is like this is my body preparing me. Yeah.

424
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And you've built your challenge mussel all the time,

425
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 4: Like you could have from that first talk when it

426
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 4: was highly stressed. You could have just gone, I'm not

427
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 4: going to do it, and you could have walked away.

428
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 4: And how different would it be if you had have

429
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,120
Speaker 4: done that? Right, And there's a lot of people who

430
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 4: do do that. But if they can just find that

431
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 4: ten seconds of courage to actually lean in and go right,

432
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 4: I'm doing it, and then they get that little bit

433
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 4: of fierce as long as they don't completely and utterly

434
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 4: fuck it up and make it an abomination, because that

435
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 4: will then weaken your challenge muscle.

436
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 3: And this is the point that if.

437
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 4: You're a teacher a culture parent, is not to throw

438
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 4: people in the deep end too much, to do something

439
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 4: that completely overwhelms them, because that can then send them

440
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 4: into that threat response.

441
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that then goes into a skill, doesn't it.

442
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: So you have to be realistic about what you are

443
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 1: about to do and do you have the resources and

444
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: the skill. Have you done the work to actually do it?

445
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

446
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 4: And that's the other thing that plays into challenge orientation is.

447
00:24:58,320 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 2: Knowing that you've done the work.

448
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 4: You know, most athletes, and I work with quite a

449
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 4: lot of karate athletes, a lead athletes, the biggest.

450
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 3: Thing that athletes want is confidence.

451
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 4: And any sports or any sports psych worth their salt

452
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 4: will tell you the best way to build confidence is competence,

453
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 4: is to do the work, to know that you've done

454
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 4: the work, and to actually have that progressive overload where

455
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 4: you stretch yourself, right, So if you've never lifted weeds before,

456
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 4: you don't go in and try and do two hundred

457
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 4: kilo deadlift. You start little, and then you progressively overload

458
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 4: the system as you go.

459
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that competence, and you also need courage.

460
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: I think it's like I'm looking at that equation courage

461
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: plus competence equals confidence.

462
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yeah.

463
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 1: All right, well, I think that's been really useful. Thank

464
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: you for coming on right Jo on Monday for this week.

465
00:25:58,200 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 2: Absolute pleasure.

466
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 4: Hopefully I get back on at some stage within the

467
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 4: next couple of years.

468
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: We'll say all right, well, thanks everyone for listening. I

469
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 1: hope you've got value out of that, and I'll catch

470
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: you next week.

471
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 2: So yeah bye,