Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Christian, amiot.
Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, April twenty three, twenty twenty five. The International
Speaker 1: Monetary Fund says the Australian government, elected on May three,
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Speaker 1: at the Australian dot com dot au. The world's most
Speaker 1: senior Catholic leaders are making their way to Rome following
Speaker 1: the death of Pope Francis on Monday, lay the late
Speaker 1: Pontiff to rest in the coming days before turning their
Speaker 1: minds to the question of who'll succeed the church's first
Speaker 1: South American Pope. That's today's episode. Hi Jack, how was
Speaker 1: the flight?
Speaker 2: Oh? It was a mad dash. Of course, trying to
Speaker 2: get a flight was always an issue. The plane was full,
Speaker 2: but I did get a seat, perhaps not as early
Speaker 2: as I would have liked, but I've arrived.
Speaker 1: Jacqueline Magne is the Australian's europe correspondent. She was headed
Speaker 1: in the opposite direction to Scotland when she got word
Speaker 1: Pope Francis had died in Rome.
Speaker 2: The hardest thing was actually finding a hotel that perhaps
Speaker 2: our accountants will be accommodating, because even as I was watching,
Speaker 2: the prices were doubling and then tripling. So it's not
Speaker 2: a cheap exercise to be in Rome at the moment.
Speaker 1: The Vatican announced the Pontiff's death on Monday evening, as
Speaker 1: the Easter long weekend came to a close.
Speaker 3: Cari si mi forrett elie la morte del Nostro Santo
Speaker 3: Padre Francesco.
Speaker 1: Pope Francis, the first Latin American leader of the Roman
Speaker 1: Catholic Church, has died.
Speaker 3: His final days were spent in Rome's Gamelli Hospital, battling
Speaker 3: a prolonged asthmatic respiratory crisis while being treated for pneumonia
Speaker 3: and a complex lung infection.
Speaker 1: This morning, confirmation from the Vatican he passed away from
Speaker 1: stroke and heart failure.
Speaker 2: Today global leaders are paying their respects and remembering the
Speaker 2: Pontiff's legacy. The Vatican will observe a nine day period
Speaker 2: of mourning.
Speaker 1: So Jack, we just heard there the bells of Saint
Speaker 1: Peter Square in the Vatican tolling to mark the death
Speaker 1: of Pope Francis. It came, of course, just one day
Speaker 1: after Catholics all over the world celebrated the Easter holiday.
Speaker 1: What's the mood like in Rome as the world reacts
Speaker 1: to the Pontiff's passing.
Speaker 2: I think it's still shock. Most people thought that the
Speaker 2: Pope was recovering. It would not have been a surprise
Speaker 2: five weeks ago for the Pope to have died, but
Speaker 2: then he appeared to rally and get better, so people
Speaker 2: were very encouraged, even though he did look frail, that
Speaker 2: he was making the effort to see them and be
Speaker 2: amongst them, and that was incredibly well received. So it
Speaker 2: was a big festive celebration of Easta but also of
Speaker 2: the Pope rejoining his flock, and so for him to
Speaker 2: have died just hours later really has just been such
Speaker 2: a huge shock to everybody.
Speaker 1: In the coming days and weeks, the grief of the
Speaker 1: world's one point three billion Catholics will turn to curiosity
Speaker 1: about who comes next following the pope's funeral, and when
Speaker 1: the official morning period ends, a conclay is called. It's
Speaker 1: the ancient and secretive ritual that's seen two hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty six popes elected to lead the Catholic Church. The
Speaker 1: vote takes place in the storied Cistine Chapel under that
Speaker 1: ornate ceiling painted by Michelangelo in the fifteen hundreds. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it last days, others weeks. Once it took three years.
Speaker 1: The ballots cast by eligible cardinals behind the lock doors
Speaker 1: of the chapel are kept secret, but the ending is
Speaker 1: always the same.
Speaker 3: Looking right now that smoke is now coming out of
Speaker 3: the chimney, it is.
Speaker 2: Oh very much white.
Speaker 3: We have a new pope.
Speaker 1: We asked Jack about the cardinals in line to be
Speaker 1: the next pope back in February when Pope Francis was
Speaker 1: hospitalized with pneumonia. Here's a bit of what she said.
Speaker 2: Then, well, there's about a dozen front runners. So there's
Speaker 2: an Italian cardinal, Pietro Parolyn. There's a reason that he's
Speaker 2: a front runner because he's considered to be a steady hand.
Speaker 2: And there's also the Philippines Cardinal Louis Antonio Tagle, he's
Speaker 2: also fairly moderate. We've got Cardinal Peter Urdo from Hungary.
Speaker 2: He's very popular amongst all of the cardinals. And then
Speaker 2: you know you've got people like will the church go
Speaker 2: and elect someone who's from the Congo, Fridolin and Bongo.
Speaker 2: He's the president of the African and Madagascar Symposium, so
Speaker 2: he has kind of control or authority of a significant
Speaker 2: area of the world. And then Robert Sara of Guinea.
Speaker 2: He's very conservative.
Speaker 1: Jack has that changed now that everyone's had more time
Speaker 1: than they might have expected to mull it over.
Speaker 2: All the cardinals, they're all coming in from all parts
Speaker 2: of the globe to try and be there at the
Speaker 2: first meeting, which was to decide when the Pope is
Speaker 2: going to lie in state and when the funeral is
Speaker 2: going to be held. So there's some pretty significant decisions
Speaker 2: to be made of events that will happen in the
Speaker 2: next few days, and so cardinals are literally in the air.
Speaker 2: The Australian Cardinal Bichok is in Israel as we speak.
Speaker 2: He was in the air en route to Israel when
Speaker 2: he heard the news that the Pope had died so
Speaker 2: there's been these frantic efforts to reroot his itinery so
Speaker 2: that he can get to Rome as quickly as possible.
Speaker 2: So that's just one cardinal. Everybody else around the world
Speaker 2: as well is also trying to get to Rome. So
Speaker 2: the opportunities for the cardinals to get together to discuss
Speaker 2: this have been quite limited. But I think it's a
Speaker 2: little bit too early to say, and to be honest,
Speaker 2: history will show that the bookies always get it wrong
Speaker 2: on this. So who people think might be the best
Speaker 2: pope not necessarily the pope that gets elected.
Speaker 1: Pope Francis was, of course the first pope from the Americas.
Speaker 1: He was born to Italian immigrants in Buenos Aires.
Speaker 2: Do you think this.
Speaker 1: Upcoming conclave is an opportunity for another first in that
Speaker 1: we could see a pope from Asia or even Africa elected.
Speaker 2: I think we might find that there is a certain
Speaker 2: backlash against the progressiveness of Pope Francis, that many of
Speaker 2: those within the church at the higher echelons were disappointed
Speaker 2: with the very left leaning liberal ways that the church
Speaker 2: was heading, and so there could be a real switch
Speaker 2: to go back to someone more conservative. So we can't
Speaker 2: rule out that there could be another pope outside of Europe.
Speaker 2: When we look at the church's popularity now, we see
Speaker 2: that it's in areas of Asia and South America where
Speaker 2: the church is incredibly popular. So perhaps that may reflect
Speaker 2: the popularity of the church rather than its particular leanings.
Speaker 2: The fact that we're even talking about these cardinals as
Speaker 2: being candidates shows how much the church has changed over
Speaker 2: the last ten twenty years. If we look at who
Speaker 2: the voting cardinals are, you have to be under eighty
Speaker 2: to be able to vote for the pope, and if
Speaker 2: we look most of them, about sixty sixty five percent
Speaker 2: of them were actually appointed by Pope Francis. It will
Speaker 2: be interesting to see who they actually vote for. So
Speaker 2: there will be a lot of lobbying and moving and
Speaker 2: shaking going on over the coming days, certainly after the funeral,
Speaker 2: and a lot of interesting developments going on around the church,
Speaker 2: with people laying out their stall really of what they're
Speaker 2: whether they're progressive or conservative, and really trying to attract
Speaker 2: their fellow cardinals to vote for them.
Speaker 1: Coming up, what kind of legacy will Pope Francis leave.
Speaker 1: Pope Francis was a reformer, someone who's considered to have
Speaker 1: changed the papacy forever. He was embraced by progressives who
Speaker 1: celebrated his bucking of traditions and heralded his leadership as
Speaker 1: a new era for the Catholic Church.
Speaker 3: Pol Francis has discussed the possibility of relaxing the discipline
Speaker 3: of priestly celibacy.
Speaker 2: Pol Francis says Catholic priests can now bless same sex couples,
Speaker 2: but not for marriage. Honesty, courage, and responsibility, three qualities
Speaker 2: the pope says he wants everyone on earth to show
Speaker 2: in the battle against climate change.
Speaker 3: Poor Francis has offered his deepest apologies to the people
Speaker 3: who suffer sexual abuse at the hand of Catholic priests, but.
Speaker 1: More conservative Catholics felt he pushed the envelope too far,
Speaker 1: and his unprecedented availability to the world's media and his
Speaker 1: willingness to inject himself into global politics landed him in
Speaker 1: hot water more than once. Now, the cardinals eligible to
Speaker 1: vote in the conclave have a choice to make stay
Speaker 1: the course towards modernity or re established traditions forged over centuries.
Speaker 1: Jack Pope Francis was arguably the most visible pope in history,
Speaker 1: both in terms of his presence in the media and
Speaker 1: the notoriety of some of his reforms. What kind of
Speaker 1: legacy will he leave, do you think?
Speaker 2: I think Francis will most definitely be seen in an
Speaker 2: affectionate way, in that he was incredibly well intentioned. Everybody
Speaker 2: is very reflective of this pope as being incredibly humble,
Speaker 2: somebody who was with the people, who wanted to help
Speaker 2: the people and what is the church for? So he
Speaker 2: reflected that very generous liberal way of the church and
Speaker 2: trying to open up the church to a different way
Speaker 2: and to modernize as well. But his successor will be
Speaker 2: somebody who will cast their own views upon the church
Speaker 2: and help guide the church in the way they want
Speaker 2: to see it. Head So it's to be seen. We
Speaker 2: won't know, but certainly upon the reflections of Francis, I
Speaker 2: think you know the coming days we will see everybody
Speaker 2: speak incredibly well of him and what he achieved. Whether
Speaker 2: people liked it or not is another matter, but they
Speaker 2: certainly cannot be critical of his intentions and his humbleness.
Speaker 1: Jacqueline Magne is The Australian's europe correspondent. You can read
Speaker 1: her reporting on the legacy of Pope Francis and the
Speaker 1: upcoming conclave at the Australian dot Com dot Au