WEBVTT - Riots and revenge attacks: Carl Scully and Mark Goodwin 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:04.840 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:07.840 Detective see a side of life the average person is 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.119 never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.040 For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.200 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:20.560 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.160 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.439 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.760 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.440 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.640 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.680 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.400 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:49.159 Welcome back to part two of my chat. We've retired 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:52.560 New South Wales Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Goodwin and former 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:55.920 New South Wales Police Minister Carl Scully. Welcome back, guys, 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:59.960 Thank you now. If you miss part one. The two 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:02.560 men that we've got in the studio today, they were 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.440 in their roles as police Minister and Assistant commission that 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:08.960 we were in charge or overseeing what happened in the 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:13.040 Crenulla Rights and the aftermath of the Cronulla Rights. In 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:16.640 Part one we talked about the build up to the rights, 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:20.680 specific incidents that had occurred, and that was on the 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:25.480 eleventh of December two thousand and five. What the public 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:27.800 don't know, and I think this is where we'll get 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:30.479 into it a little bit in a little bit more depth, 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:35.480 is what happened after the rights. Let's call them revenge attacks. 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:37.800 A lot of it's been covered in the book that 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:42.960 our two guests of co authored called The Cronulla Rights. Guys, 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:45.520 can you tell me about the revenge attacks? We finished 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.560 off in part one talking about Okay, on that particular night, 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.680 people went home, people got tired, they went home. But 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:55.480 that was just the start of what happened to happen 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:59.240 in regards to law enforcement, to make sure the situation 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:00.240 didn't escalate. 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:03.800 Probably best mark if you want to deal with Yeah. 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:08.959 Look, the six o'clock news hit that night after the 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:12.560 incidents during the day at Crinella, which was primarily a protest, 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.519 and as we've discussed in Part one that there was 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:19.800 violent incidents occurred down there, but the media had strung 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:25.480 them together in such quick succession with excited voiceover that 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:28.799 it made it look like a five thousand strong Caucasian 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.240 crowd had carried on like that all day long, which 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:34.919 was not the case. Regardless, that was seen obviously wired 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:39.000 and fired and justified the media beat. 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:40.640 Up and build up to the actual day. 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.960 So what occurred then is that's put broadcast into every 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:48.960 lound room around certainly New South Wales, if not Australia 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:54.760 and even internationally, and that enraged the young Lebanese Muslim 0:02:54.800 --> 0:03:01.320 youth that had seen people from their community being assaulted 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:06.480 on the beach by these inebriated Caucasians. And what started 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:11.320 from them almost instantly we started hearing and having information 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:14.560 brought to my attention was things that started popping up 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:16.720 at I think the first one was at Saint George 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:21.359 Hospital and then at Brighton the Sands and incidents that 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:24.520 were occurring which were of violent nature and. 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:26.560 Quite extreme. 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:30.000 And then we moved the command center then to the 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:33.520 Sydney Police Center and opened up the large Police Operations Center, 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.640 which had already been running in a support role to myself, 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:40.200 but we activated in full mode then and I called 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.040 back and luckily, in the planning for this, we had 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:47.720 anticipated that this may occur. So we immediately called back 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:51.760 in a large number of extra police to relieve the 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:53.360 ones that had been on duty all day in the 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:55.840 hot sun, and even they were kept on though anyway 0:03:55.840 --> 0:04:01.120 on overtime. But and I recalled an number of superintendent 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:06.040 local commanders to specific areas around the cocker Rockdale, Brighton, 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:11.120 Lessens and Uncliff area, the campsy La Kember Cannbury Bankstown 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:15.040 area and also in the eastern suburbs. 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:18.520 And what occurred is that. 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:23.960 We had then closed down the bridges into the Sutherland Shire. 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:25.599 We didn't even have the powers to do this, but 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.240 we just anticipated what was coming because I had been 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.239 a crome manager at Banksdown for five years and before 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:33.800 that had detected for five years as well in the 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:38.200 early eighties. But I knew what was coming and my 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:40.880 experience told me that this is going to be bad. 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:42.200 And it was. 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.919 And what we started seeing was these marauding groups of 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:50.760 up to fifty cars of young Lebanese Muslim men, very enraged, 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:55.159 very angry, and they armed themselves with baseball bats, knives, guns, 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.760 and we had entire suburbs attacked, such as Muruba, because 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.080 they couldn't get into the Sutherland because the bridges were shut, 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:02.479 even though we didn't have the power to do it. 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:06.000 We just closed them off, anticipating and knowing what may happen. 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:08.240 So that first night they didn't get in there, but 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.600 they went to Ruber instead because what had occurred was 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:13.800 in the lead up to it, most unehelpfully, there'd been 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.599 an article run where the head of the Bra Boys 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.120 had said in the front page of the Daily Telegraph 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:22.839 that either reason they don't come here to Maruber is 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:24.080 because of us the bra Boys. 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:26.200 Well they came to Ruber, all right. They came that. 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:27.640 Night waving the red flag. 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:29.080 Rave the red flag. 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:32.479 A very irresponsible article and it absolutely caused Maruba to 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:35.600 be trushed. And what occurred over there was there was 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.680 rated paging gangs of up to fifty cars. They got 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:41.160 out with baseball bats, knives and they just went ballistic 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:44.000 on the town and they smashed car windows, shop windows, 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:48.160 People walking down the streets were baseball battered. We had stabbings. 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.040 We had over that period. That night and the next 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:53.880 following nights. This went on with more and more viciousness, 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:59.600 and you know, there was churches, Christian churches burnt down 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:00.640 in the West suburbs. 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.599 There was people stabbed. They got into the Shire. 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.480 The following night into the sutherland Shire, there was a 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:11.839 young guy stabbed outside viciously and almost died outside Willowere 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:16.039 Golf Club. And look, there was numerous baseball battings going 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:18.560 on and assaults, people being punch kicked and stuff for 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:20.360 no other reason that they were just Caucasians. 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:26.040 So that escalated to a point where. 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:29.960 We were having a lot of trouble responding to this 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:34.440 because there was so mobile, they were so random. They 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:39.080 were unlike popularist media have reported that they were all 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:41.600 coming from a particular park in Punchbow, they were emanating 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:45.760 from numerous areas in the western suburbs, all done by 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:50.680 mobile phane and meet up points organized very quickly. And 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.520 these mobile rampaging gangs very hard to police with. What 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.760 traditionally we see of public order is the static police 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:58.279 lines protests. 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.840 A one hundred right squad police up this OA. It 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:01.880 don't turn up there. 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:03.960 In a particular area because you well know that's where 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:04.800 the protest. 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:05.920 Is going to be. But this was random. 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:09.120 That was a lot night under the cover of darkness, 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.640 and you know this way years later we see that 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:15.880 and we say that there's just this media coverage of 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.040 the daytime events at Cornella is all you see. If 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:20.680 you google the Cronella RTEs, that's all you will see. 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:24.200 Because the media couldn't keep up. They literally decided and 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:26.760 they often act as a pack, and they decided at 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:28.640 about five o'clock at Cronell it was all over and 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:30.800 went in and they were out to dinner when the 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:33.240 main event occurred, which was the revenge attacks. And there's 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:37.440 no imagery, and these revenge attacks would have fed you've said, 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:41.120 like the six o'clock news, and I remember anyone around 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:44.200 at the time would remember how it was covered and 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.880 how you described it as it was a right of 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:52.120 large group of ossie males attacking anyone that came to 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:56.520 the beach of Middle Eastern appearance. And from what we've 0:07:56.600 --> 0:08:00.320 learned in part one, that wasn't entirely as yeah, as 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:02.680 straightforward as that, and that wasn't the numbers that were 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:05.680 portrayed in the media. But I know, like I was 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:08.560 speaking to in prep for the podcast, speaking to a 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.480 Lebanese friend, and she said she was getting calls as 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.720 you touched on from overseas, going are you guys all 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:15.440 right over there? 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:17.640 What's happening? Because that was the type of thing, that's 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:20.600 thing that was being portrayed, all the images that were 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:24.720 being portrayed in the media. What happened in the follow 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:28.680 up attacks didn't capture the media's attention because a little 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:32.080 bit harder, as you started to explain. But from a 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:34.280 policing point of view, and I ask you this, and 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:36.840 I'd also defer to you, Carl, because I think there 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:39.640 had to be changes in the legislation that got pushed through. 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:42.920 The type of powers mark that you were seeking to 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:47.960 quell that like stopping cars and pulling people over, we 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:51.400 didn't have those powers readily available. There was a little, 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:54.800 let's call it a gray area on what authority they 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:55.400 could use. 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:58.280 Yeah, well, what we found was is that first off, 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:00.280 this mass text messaging that was going on and that's 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:04.000 how things were being organized, we didn't have powers to 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:08.240 search phones and discover what had been said and where 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:09.800 it was being said and where they were going to. 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:12.160 So that was one issue. Another issue, we didn't have 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:15.000 powers to actually lock down suburbs. And you know there 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.760 was in those days, there was random breath testing legislation, 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:20.599 so we use that, but we literally didn't have the 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:22.440 We didn't have the power to lock down these bridges 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:24.120 to keep them out of the Sutherland Shower or any 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:25.840 other suburbs, Ruber or anywhere else. 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:26.840 But he just did it anyway. 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:33.040 And in discussions with the government with Carl Scully, who 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:36.960 was a police minister, we said, we think we need 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:37.440 these powers. 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:38.280 We need to be able. 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.400 To search these people, and we need to be able 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.559 to stop search these marauding gangs of cars. We need 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:46.800 to be able to confiscate their cars. 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:48.040 We need to be able to search. 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:50.280 Through their phones and if these messaging, seize those phones, 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:52.199 because these are the weapons you're literally being used to 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:57.400 organize and then also to shut licensed premises in case 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:59.559 there was more an ebriot sort of action on the beach. 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.480 And look, we went to the government and the response 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:04.440 and Car can talk about this because he was the minister. 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.480 But like the response week, I've never seen anything like it. Like, 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.480 as I said before part one, the Parliament was in recess, 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:11.800 so they finished for the year. 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:16.520 You've got holidays, Car, not quite holidays, but the parliament 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:20.360 itself it was in recess, and you know, and the 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:22.559 response that week, I wish I let Carl talk about 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.720 now from our law enforcement perspective was phenomenal how the 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:29.400 government reacted and able to car for what was actually done. 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:31.680 So I'll give an example. 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:36.560 Once we gave the power of entering public transport, inspect 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:42.680 all cars, inspecting phones, and then arresting and confiscating, it 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:46.720 went through like a bush telegraph. Suddenly these young men 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:49.880 realized the cops are there. If I've got this on 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:53.600 my phone, I can be put in prison. So that 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:59.840 was very rapidly impacted upon this incitement, and certainly the 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:04.240 out of lockdown suburbs and to seize cars and detain 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:07.560 people was enormously important. But yes, Mark's right, we acted 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:12.680 as quickly as we possibly could. Eleventh of December it occurred, 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.200 and the fifteenth that became law. So we had a 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:21.240 cabinet meeting a minute and the cabinet resolved very quickly. 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.320 By the way, there was no twenty page cabinet minute 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:28.439 with all this stuff. We met and the Cabinet secretary 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:32.000 made some notes about what we decided, and those notes 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:34.720 went to the Parliamentary Council and a bill was quickly 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:38.520 drafted and Parliament recalled and it. 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:40.320 Was all very very quick. 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:42.960 Credit to you, because I've been involved in trying to 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:45.920 get legislative changes on certain things, and I can assure 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:47.040 you it doesn't go that quick. 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:50.480 It was pretty impressive to see, but it gave them 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.480 what they needed. So, as I said, my job was 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:57.440 to provide the powers, the personnel and resources and to 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.760 nudge the commissioner around when he needed to be, to 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:04.360 give the backing to someone like Mark Goodwin and his commanders. 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:06.320 And I think the government did that well. 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.480 At what point you mentioned in part one early that 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:12.760 you flagged the idea of bringing the military in At 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.600 what stage in events was that when. 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:19.120 You straight after the main event? And I had the 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:23.760 concerns historically from McQuary Fields, And perhaps if I could 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:28.320 recount a quick story. The day after the mcquarie Fields 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:30.640 first day, which you might call went for about four 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.880 days or so, I had a meeting. I'd been minister 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.360 for about four or five weeks and we met out 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:38.600 at McQuary Fields and I said, all right, what are 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.679 you doing this evening? Oh, I've got one hundred and 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.600 fifty police said is that enough? Do you think that's enough? 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.880 And on the way back to the office I rang 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.400 the commissioner. I said, I'm just a lawyer who went 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:56.240 into politics who ended up as police minister. But you 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:57.960 guys have been doing this for decades. 0:12:58.360 --> 0:12:59.319 He rang me back. 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.240 Five minutes later and said, well, actually, there's going to 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:04.480 be six hundred and so when at the end of 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.320 the same year I got oh, we're putting six hundred in, 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.880 I thought, well, is that the magic number for law 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.200 and order events? And I said this is a lot 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.120 worse than mcquarie fields. Do I need to ask the 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:20.480 premier to bring soldiers in? We'll need to put troops 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.199 on the street. And he got the message very quickly. 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.680 We changed the law, We gave the powers to the cops, 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:31.800 and the commissioner authorized two thousand police officers. So he 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:33.960 did what was expected of him, and I believe the 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:37.240 government did what was expected of it. All we can 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:41.240 do is empower the police with personnel, resources and powers, 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.400 and there was up to them to do that work. 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:46.640 But we knew he had plans in place. He already 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.640 had those escalation plans in place, which he was already 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:51.760 implementing from the previous evening. 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.480 Okay, mark those powers when they came in the play 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.200 and the resourcing that we just talked about, then, how 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.800 much did that assist in staying on top of the situation. 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.360 Look, I think the people of this South Wales have 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.559 really got no idea what threat they were under. And 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:08.640 I'll talk about the second the intelligence that we had, 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.840 and then you know we needed those powers. We were 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:15.960 acting and hoc really and just doing it because it 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.560 was the right thing to do. Bit like Craig Campbell 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.040 on the on the train. If people want to say 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.480 that's a defensive weapon and he was using it offensively, 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:25.560 well that's what was required at the time. We shut 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:27.760 down bridges, we shut down suburbs and stuff because there'd 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.240 be people dead otherwise and that's your job as policing. 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:31.600 Worry about it later. 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:33.760 But we did need these powers to give the police 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:35.840 the assurance on the street of doing what I was 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:39.200 asking them to do was lawful and that they needed 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:43.120 that morale boost. And look, the government responses I've outlined 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:45.680 already was was, I mean, it's a fantastic example of 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.200 the system, the best I've ever seen to have legislation 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.520 after I opened my mouth on the table four days 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:51.840 and I'm using it four days later. 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.400 So we gave police a great morale boost. 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:59.240 We certainly then organized our plans around that and you know, 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.320 the following week again we had to run an operation 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:05.160 because of the amount of intelligence we had. We had 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:08.080 to run an operation that extended from Woollongong in the 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.600 south to Newcastle in the north, with two thousand police involved. 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:14.720 And that was the largest public order operation ever run 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:18.920 in Australia and still to this day is it was very, 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.080 very complex in seven zones and shut We used this 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.680 legislation and were shut down and lockdown areas based upon 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:29.240 the intelligence we had, mostly beachside suburbs, but certainly inner 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.360 western Sydney as well. And you know, people entering and 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.280 leaving those had to give reasons they were there, They 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:37.200 had to show identification, so they are lockdown with roadblocks 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:39.720 like you know in COVID. People saw it in COVID, 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:42.640 but this this happened in parts of as I said, 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:46.680 right from Wollongong to Newcastle, Beach suburbs lockdown completely and 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.200 you had to either live there or show identification as 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:50.640 to why you were going in there, have a reason 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:52.080 to go in there, and your car would be searched 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:54.320 and you would be searched. And but look, the public 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.440 were very cooperative because you know, I can't recall one 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:01.840 single complaint that we had against any police officer during 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:03.760 that period of time, which is just bizarre for the 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:06.160 amount of this law enforcement that was done, and. 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:07.160 It was over the top. 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.240 But they were built in safeguards in this law enforcement 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.200 activity too, because the use of these powers can only 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.760 be authorized by an Assistant commissioner, which was me sign 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:18.680 You had to sign off on it, a bit like 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.840 I say, controlled operation type thing. It's not just an 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.200 everyday power that exists normally, so it has to be 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.760 extreme circumstances and this then gets signed off and it 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.160 then becomes the fact that the police can use it. 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:32.240 They can't use these powers on any other normal day, 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:34.160 So they were these safeguards build into it. But it 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.240 gave police enormous confidence and it was. 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:41.640 Used, and it was used heaps and making the difference. 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.920 Let's talk about the intel that there's some that's referred 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:48.240 to in the book and conversations I've had with you 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:53.880 quite horrific the potential for what they'd been rumored to 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:54.920 be about to occur. 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:57.320 Yeah, look, I'll give you a couple of examples, and 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.280 we reveal this in the book. For the first time ever, 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.840 we had intelligence, for instance, that there was going to 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.600 be a drive by shooting with Uzi submachine guns at 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.359 the Northey's Hotel at Cronulla, which is the local drinking 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:12.239 whole of a Friday Saturday night. The following weekend there 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:13.600 was going to be this drive by shooting. 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:15.360 There was also in. 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.439 That same incident going to be a hand grenade thrown 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:22.480 into the front bier garden. We knew from existing task 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:25.440 forces of the police that there was attempts being made 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:29.040 to purchase a hand grenade on the black market. There 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:31.440 was an undercover operation that the police ran that week 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:34.400 and took a hand grenade off the street and purchased 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:38.199 it and it was secured by the bomb squad and removed. 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.200 There was search warrants also done to remove guns off 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.359 the street and another potential source that we knew was 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.800 another potential source of another hand grenade from intelligence that 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:52.040 we'd been provided. And we also had intelligence for instance 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:55.280 that Westfield's at Miranda and the Thursday night before Christmas, 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:56.880 because all this was in the lead up to Christmas, 0:17:57.760 --> 0:17:59.520 there was going to be a raid done on the 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.320 west Fields at moriunded by fifty car loads of young 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:06.440 Lebanese Muslim men with baseball bats, knives and good nos 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:08.760 what else. And we saw the result of one offender 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:12.119 recently in Bondo and what rampaging through a shopping center 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.000 that can do this was going to be fifty So 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.440 we had a lot of conversations with Westfields about this 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:24.520 and we locked down that whole precinct with enormous amounts 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.280 of police and it didn't occur as thwarted. You know, 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:30.960 the attack at Cernulla was thwarted and what was really 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.480 going on behind the scenes, And you wonder why there 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:36.520 was a special sitting of New South Wales Parliament because 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.359 it was frightening Gary what the intelligence we were receiving. 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.320 And we had intelligence in the abundance load because thankfully 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:44.639 there was a lot of existing police task forces that 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:46.520 were already working on some of the criminals that were 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.359 acting in these revenge attacks. And we also have a 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:53.560 lot of informants coming forward, a lot of also concerned 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.480 parents from both sides that were giving police information. 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:58.440 So we had a lot of intelligence. 0:18:58.000 --> 0:18:59.959 About authorities also feeding. 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:02.920 Yeah, I was approached by our federal counterparts and some 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:07.320 agencies that I can't really mention approached me quite concerned 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:09.640 and had the exact identical intelligence that we did. 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:12.760 It was sound, sound intelligence. 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:15.720 And for instance, like we one of the I don't 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:17.639 want to name him here, but one of the people 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:23.480 we interviewed saw a bootload of oozy submachine guns outside 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.720 the mosque that was going to be used, and him 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:32.480 and other senior Muslim leaders shut that down. And you know, 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:34.959 you can't underestimate the work that was done over there 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:38.840 at Campsy because you know, after Ruba was attacked, there 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:41.960 was a it was actually a quite false rumor went 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.639 around that in retribution for that, every surfy was going 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:47.399 to turn up there and destroy the mosque, and so 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:51.160 you know, that went round like wildfire in the Arabic 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:54.879 Muslim community, and all of a sudden, thousands of people 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.280 literally started turning up to the mosque and it was hostile. 0:19:57.800 --> 0:19:58.879 And the police. 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:03.000 Commander over there, John Richard, did an absolutely fantastic, marvelous 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:07.280 job with the local game because of fantastic existing relationships 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.840 that they already had with the local Muslim leaders, and 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:14.359 you know, they screamed themselves hoarse outside that mosque to 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.120 close down what the potential was going. 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:21.280 To prevent their credit to prevent this. The role that 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:24.080 law enforcement plays in it, but the community play such 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:26.600 a big part, The community leaders play such a big 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:27.840 part in its. 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:32.520 Absolutely, and they got there their unsung heroes and of 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:35.080 all this because you know what was prevented by them, 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:38.600 by John Richardson and also the and most particularly actually 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:43.960 the I say John richards I mean police, his frontline police, 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:46.240 and I'm talking about the superintendent, I mean the actual 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:48.880 bodies on the ground, the frontline troops that we all 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:53.800 know did a wonderful job, but the Muslim leaders themselves 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:57.440