1 00:00:01,300 --> 00:00:10,090 Speaker 1: I'm Ruby Jones, and you're listening to 7am. One of 2 00:00:10,150 --> 00:00:13,909 Speaker 1: the defining themes of Donald Trump's presidencies has been his 3 00:00:13,970 --> 00:00:17,390 Speaker 1: war against the media. Last week, he banned journalists from 4 00:00:17,470 --> 00:00:20,590 Speaker 1: three media outlets from the White House, saying he's had 5 00:00:20,650 --> 00:00:22,750 Speaker 1: enough of the negative stories about him. 6 00:00:23,570 --> 00:00:27,010 Speaker 2: This week, those outlets sued him over the ban. And 7 00:00:27,050 --> 00:00:28,690 Speaker 2: just last year, he proved. 8 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,310 Speaker 1: No-one's off-limits... taking media mogul Rupert Murdoch to court in 9 00:00:32,430 --> 00:00:36,190 Speaker 1: a $ 10 billion lawsuit that's still playing out, all over 10 00:00:36,290 --> 00:00:40,510 Speaker 1: another story he didn't much like. Today, journalist and author 11 00:00:40,610 --> 00:00:43,570 Speaker 1: Gabriel Sherman on the battle of the titans between Donald 12 00:00:43,610 --> 00:00:46,790 Speaker 1: Trump and Rupert Murdoch and who really holds the power 13 00:00:46,930 --> 00:00:49,310 Speaker 1: in this twisted transactional relationship. 14 00:00:53,750 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 2: It's Wednesday, September 23rd. 15 00:01:00,900 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: So, Gabrielle, let's begin by going back to last July 16 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: when Donald Trump learns that the Wall Street Journal is 17 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: about to publish a story about. 18 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,980 Speaker 2: A birthday letter that he sent to Jeffrey Epstein. Tell 19 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 2: me what happens. 20 00:01:15,260 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 3: Well, Trump has a very open channel to Rupert Murdoch. 21 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 3: You know, they speak, I would say, if not several 22 00:01:21,220 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 3: times a week, at least once a week. And like 23 00:01:23,260 --> 00:01:25,500 Speaker 3: Trump always does with the press when there's something he 24 00:01:25,540 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 3: doesn't like, he sort of bullies and threatens. And he 25 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,010 Speaker 3: called Rupert and said, said, this is ridiculous. You can't 26 00:01:32,050 --> 00:01:36,610 Speaker 3: publish this. And, you know, Rupert entertained the call, spoke 27 00:01:36,650 --> 00:01:39,410 Speaker 3: privately with Emma Tucker, the editor in chief of The 28 00:01:39,430 --> 00:01:43,750 Speaker 3: Wall Street Journal. And lo and behold, the piece promptly ran. 29 00:01:44,110 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 4: The note's existence initially reported by The Wall Street Journal 30 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 4: in July. The drawing shows the outline of a woman's torso, 31 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 4: breasts and hips with a message that reads, in part, 32 00:01:54,180 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 4: we have certain things in common, Jeffrey. 33 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,350 Speaker 3: Trump denies, obviously, that he had any role in Jeffrey 34 00:01:59,390 --> 00:02:02,430 Speaker 3: Epstein's illegal abuse of young women. 35 00:02:02,730 --> 00:02:06,140 Speaker 4: Before the closing words, happy birthday and may every day 36 00:02:06,230 --> 00:02:10,580 Speaker 4: be another wonderful secret. At the bottom, a familiar scrawled signature. 37 00:02:10,780 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 3: But of course, the letter itself shows that they had 38 00:02:13,860 --> 00:02:18,419 Speaker 3: a very close personal relationship. And the letter itself also 39 00:02:18,500 --> 00:02:22,340 Speaker 3: contradicted everything Trump had said about how he barely knew Epstein, 40 00:02:22,380 --> 00:02:25,410 Speaker 3: that he had a falling out with Epstein. So regardless, 41 00:02:25,470 --> 00:02:27,990 Speaker 3: it was a very scandalous story for the Trump White House. 42 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,420 Speaker 1: And so we know that Trump tried to stop the 43 00:02:31,460 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: story before it was even published. 44 00:02:34,139 --> 00:02:37,650 Speaker 2: Failing that, what does he do once it is out 45 00:02:37,669 --> 00:02:38,149 Speaker 2: in the open? 46 00:02:38,590 --> 00:02:41,290 Speaker 3: Again, this is straight out of the Donald Trump playbook. 47 00:02:41,690 --> 00:02:43,270 Speaker 5: But I'm not a drawing person. 48 00:02:43,570 --> 00:02:44,850 Speaker 3: I don't do drawings of women. 49 00:02:45,460 --> 00:02:46,260 Speaker 2: That I can tell you. 50 00:02:46,419 --> 00:02:48,860 Speaker 3: He first threatens to sue. And in this case, he 51 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:49,500 Speaker 3: did sue. 52 00:02:49,820 --> 00:02:52,380 Speaker 4: Tonight, President Donald Trump is suing the Wall Street Journal's 53 00:02:52,470 --> 00:02:57,790 Speaker 4: publisher and its leader, Rupert Murdoch, for $ 10 billion. 54 00:02:57,910 --> 00:03:01,490 Speaker 3: By all accounts, the journal stands by its story. And 55 00:03:01,650 --> 00:03:05,570 Speaker 3: most experts in the U.S. believe the lawsuit is completely 56 00:03:05,900 --> 00:03:08,820 Speaker 3: without merit. But again, this is more of as much 57 00:03:08,860 --> 00:03:11,519 Speaker 3: of a public relations stunt as it is a legal 58 00:03:11,620 --> 00:03:12,100 Speaker 3: one for Trump. 59 00:03:12,540 --> 00:03:14,870 Speaker 1: And we know that Trump has this direct line to 60 00:03:14,910 --> 00:03:18,489 Speaker 1: Murdoch and has tried to tell him before publication that 61 00:03:18,810 --> 00:03:20,030 Speaker 1: it's fake, the letter. 62 00:03:20,530 --> 00:03:21,570 Speaker 2: Tell me a bit about. 63 00:03:21,470 --> 00:03:25,549 Speaker 1: How personal this got between. 64 00:03:25,250 --> 00:03:26,340 Speaker 2: Trump and Murdoch. 65 00:03:26,620 --> 00:03:29,220 Speaker 3: You know, it's hard to say because both of these 66 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 3: men are so incredibly transactional. They can be enemies one 67 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,460 Speaker 3: day and allies the next. 68 00:03:36,590 --> 00:03:38,930 Speaker 5: By the way, we're just unrelated, but we have two 69 00:03:38,970 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 5: of the most talented people in the world. the legendary 70 00:03:42,180 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 5: Rupert Murdoch and Larry Ellison. 71 00:03:44,300 --> 00:03:48,380 Speaker 3: So Trump invited Rupert to the Oval Office after he 72 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 3: had filed the lawsuit against him. And in fact, Trump 73 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 3: had talked to Rupert Murdoch about being a part of 74 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,020 Speaker 3: the group of investors that were going to buy the 75 00:03:59,180 --> 00:04:02,980 Speaker 3: Chinese stake in TikTok when the White House demanded that 76 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:07,460 Speaker 3: TikTok US be owned by American companies. And so obviously, 77 00:04:07,540 --> 00:04:10,260 Speaker 3: on the one hand, Trump was furious and filed a lawsuit. 78 00:04:10,300 --> 00:04:13,180 Speaker 3: And on the other hand, He still knows that Rupert 79 00:04:13,220 --> 00:04:16,099 Speaker 3: Murdoch is a valuable ally. And so I think it's 80 00:04:16,140 --> 00:04:18,659 Speaker 3: a bit of a mixed picture. This isn't a case 81 00:04:18,740 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 3: where Trump has decided to just go to war with 82 00:04:23,100 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 3: Rupert Murdoch and his media empire because on some level 83 00:04:26,660 --> 00:04:27,799 Speaker 3: he still knows they're valuable. 84 00:04:28,580 --> 00:04:32,109 Speaker 2: Yeah, as you say, the relationship, it's always been transactional. 85 00:04:32,350 --> 00:04:35,669 Speaker 1: And Trump and Murdoch have never particularly trusted each other. 86 00:04:35,690 --> 00:04:39,230 Speaker 2: They've fallen out in the past. Does this fight feel 87 00:04:39,450 --> 00:04:40,250 Speaker 2: different to you, though? 88 00:04:40,700 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 3: On the one hand, yes, this fight does feel different 89 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 3: because a $ 10 billion lawsuit is still a major escalation 90 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,900 Speaker 3: of a feud. On the other hand, Trump attacks Fox 91 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,669 Speaker 3: News all the time whenever there's a poll that he 92 00:04:53,710 --> 00:04:57,710 Speaker 3: doesn't like or a headline he doesn't like. And so 93 00:04:57,830 --> 00:05:01,770 Speaker 3: this relationship has been filled with conflict from the moment 94 00:05:01,830 --> 00:05:05,510 Speaker 3: Trump came down the golden escalator in 2015 to start 95 00:05:05,550 --> 00:05:10,679 Speaker 3: his presidential campaign. And yet, The relationship has endured. So 96 00:05:11,180 --> 00:05:13,979 Speaker 3: I don't see this as being part of a falling 97 00:05:14,100 --> 00:05:16,529 Speaker 3: out that will continue as long as they are useful 98 00:05:16,570 --> 00:05:17,029 Speaker 3: to each other. 99 00:05:17,589 --> 00:05:22,110 Speaker 1: And from Rupert Murdoch's perspective, there was a time when 100 00:05:22,170 --> 00:05:25,850 Speaker 1: he and Fox News, they could turn on a Republican 101 00:05:25,890 --> 00:05:29,530 Speaker 1: politician and that it would be devastating for that particular politician. 102 00:05:30,050 --> 00:05:32,670 Speaker 2: That balance of power, though, does seem different with Trump. 103 00:05:32,850 --> 00:05:33,690 Speaker 2: Tell me about that. 104 00:05:34,070 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a fascinating question. And I think it's one 105 00:05:36,690 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 3: of the most revealing questions aspects of American politics in 106 00:05:40,060 --> 00:05:43,490 Speaker 3: the age of Trump. Basically, Fox News could make a 107 00:05:43,630 --> 00:05:47,950 Speaker 3: Republican politician. Fox News was famous for having the, quote, 108 00:05:48,010 --> 00:05:52,750 Speaker 3: Fox News primary, where every Republican candidate would go on 109 00:05:52,810 --> 00:05:57,010 Speaker 3: Fox News and essentially audition for then Fox News chief 110 00:05:57,070 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 3: Roger Ailes. 111 00:05:59,010 --> 00:06:00,990 Speaker 6: And tonight on a special edition of Hannity, we are 112 00:06:01,010 --> 00:06:05,330 Speaker 6: kicking off the 2012 campaign with our very own Hannity primaries. Now, 113 00:06:05,350 --> 00:06:08,270 Speaker 6: throughout this campaign, we'll give each candidate a half hour 114 00:06:08,430 --> 00:06:10,130 Speaker 6: right here on the show to share his or her 115 00:06:10,170 --> 00:06:10,809 Speaker 6: views with. 116 00:06:10,710 --> 00:06:11,489 Speaker 1: You, our audience. 117 00:06:11,790 --> 00:06:15,270 Speaker 3: And what happened when Donald Trump entered politics is that 118 00:06:15,950 --> 00:06:20,950 Speaker 3: Trump's fans were so loyal to Trump himself that when 119 00:06:21,050 --> 00:06:24,170 Speaker 3: Trump and Fox News became enemies of each other, whenever 120 00:06:24,190 --> 00:06:28,570 Speaker 3: there was open conflict between them, the Fox News audience sided. 121 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 3: with Donald Trump. And it's a bit of a Frankenstein story. 122 00:06:32,580 --> 00:06:38,620 Speaker 3: And I've reported extensively about this. Rupert Murdoch benefited from 123 00:06:39,300 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 3: class antagonism and wedge issues and rage and cultural war 124 00:06:44,190 --> 00:06:46,370 Speaker 3: and all the things that Fox News built itself on. 125 00:06:47,089 --> 00:06:49,330 Speaker 3: And yet he kind of lost control of that audience 126 00:06:49,370 --> 00:06:53,070 Speaker 3: because Donald Trump was even more effective at stoking those 127 00:06:53,130 --> 00:06:56,310 Speaker 3: same passions. And so we're now at the stage where 128 00:06:57,060 --> 00:07:02,020 Speaker 3: Donald Trump is effectively the editor-in-chief of Fox News because 129 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 3: the audience of Fox cares more about Donald Trump than 130 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 3: they do about the fortunes of Rupert Murdoch. 131 00:07:16,110 --> 00:07:18,890 Speaker 1: Still to come, who really has the upper hand in 132 00:07:18,940 --> 00:07:28,810 Speaker 1: this rivalry? Gabrielle, we have seen Rupert Murdoch try to 133 00:07:28,870 --> 00:07:32,500 Speaker 1: move the Republican Party beyond Trump in the past. If 134 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: we go back to the 2020 election, tell me about 135 00:07:35,820 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: how that played out. 136 00:07:37,270 --> 00:07:41,450 Speaker 3: Yes, you're talking about the famous Dominion voting machines lawsuit 137 00:07:41,490 --> 00:07:44,710 Speaker 3: against Fox News. I think that was one of the 138 00:07:44,750 --> 00:07:48,309 Speaker 3: most revealing episodes in the entire history of Fox News. 139 00:07:48,750 --> 00:07:51,770 Speaker 5: The Fox News decision desk can now project that former 140 00:07:51,810 --> 00:07:56,690 Speaker 5: Vice President Joe Biden will win Pennsylvania and Nevada, putting 141 00:07:56,730 --> 00:08:00,690 Speaker 5: him over the 270 electoral votes he needs to become 142 00:08:00,730 --> 00:08:03,310 Speaker 5: the 46th president of the United States. 143 00:08:03,670 --> 00:08:06,500 Speaker 3: In the days after the 2020 election, when Fox News 144 00:08:06,540 --> 00:08:10,550 Speaker 3: had reported, that Joe Biden had won the election. Trump 145 00:08:10,570 --> 00:08:14,730 Speaker 3: was calling the election fake. If you count the legal votes, 146 00:08:15,730 --> 00:08:16,610 Speaker 3: I easily win. 147 00:08:17,350 --> 00:08:20,870 Speaker 5: If you count the illegal votes, they can try to 148 00:08:21,070 --> 00:08:23,930 Speaker 5: steal the election from us. 149 00:08:24,010 --> 00:08:26,470 Speaker 3: If you count the votes... And the Fox News ratings 150 00:08:26,530 --> 00:08:29,230 Speaker 3: started to go down and down and down, and you 151 00:08:29,290 --> 00:08:33,630 Speaker 3: saw panic and fear in the private emails between Rupert Murdoch, 152 00:08:33,690 --> 00:08:37,890 Speaker 3: his son Lachlan Murdoch, Fox News CEO Suzanne Scott's, They 153 00:08:37,910 --> 00:08:40,790 Speaker 3: were emailing and texting each other about how the Fox 154 00:08:40,830 --> 00:08:44,420 Speaker 3: News audience was moving to new channels called Newsmax or 155 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,820 Speaker 3: One American News. And they were terrified that the Fox 156 00:08:47,860 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 3: News audience was rejecting Fox. And so what did they do? 157 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,179 Speaker 3: They totally reversed course. And they started to embrace the 158 00:08:55,300 --> 00:08:57,990 Speaker 3: Trump lie that the election was stolen. 159 00:08:58,470 --> 00:09:00,329 Speaker 6: Nobody liked Dominion voting systems. 160 00:09:00,390 --> 00:09:00,770 Speaker 3: Nobody. 161 00:09:01,150 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 6: Why we would use a system that everybody agreed sucked 162 00:09:04,410 --> 00:09:05,939 Speaker 6: or had problems is beyond me. 163 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,500 Speaker 3: And that led to the $ 787 million settlement that Fox 164 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:15,500 Speaker 3: had to reach. because they had defamed Dominion voting machines. 165 00:09:15,660 --> 00:09:18,719 Speaker 4: We are following some breaking news in Dominion's defamation lawsuit 166 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,370 Speaker 4: against Fox News. The judge in the case just announced 167 00:09:21,770 --> 00:09:23,429 Speaker 4: the two sides have reached a settlement. 168 00:09:23,470 --> 00:09:27,230 Speaker 3: Fox has admitted to telling lies about Dominion that caused 169 00:09:27,309 --> 00:09:31,650 Speaker 3: enormous damage to my company, our employees, and the customers 170 00:09:31,670 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 3: that we serve. Nothing can ever make up for that. 171 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,459 Speaker 3: And so those emails to me are the most like 172 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 3: vivid examples of how from Rupert Murdoch on down, the 173 00:09:41,620 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 3: senior Fox News leadership realized that they were not in 174 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 3: control of their audience. 175 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,210 Speaker 1: And so what lessons do you think Murdoch took from 176 00:09:49,270 --> 00:09:50,050 Speaker 1: that episode? 177 00:09:50,590 --> 00:09:54,890 Speaker 3: You know, journalism is about telling the audience what happened, 178 00:09:55,050 --> 00:09:57,370 Speaker 3: I mean, in the classical sense. And I think the 179 00:09:57,410 --> 00:10:00,890 Speaker 3: lesson is that the Fox News audience doesn't want the truth. 180 00:10:00,980 --> 00:10:02,910 Speaker 3: They want to hear what they want to hear. They 181 00:10:02,929 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 3: want to hear what helps their side. They want to 182 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,580 Speaker 3: hear what confirms their version of reality. And telling the 183 00:10:09,620 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 3: Fox audience inconvenient things that conflict with their version of 184 00:10:13,700 --> 00:10:17,220 Speaker 3: reality actually makes them turn the channel off. And so 185 00:10:17,260 --> 00:10:20,460 Speaker 3: I think that showed Rupert that you can never get 186 00:10:20,740 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 3: too far away from whatever narrative Donald Trump is talking about. 187 00:10:25,100 --> 00:10:26,740 Speaker 3: But on the other hand, they have to be careful 188 00:10:26,780 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 3: about not repeating Trump's lies too much in a way 189 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,569 Speaker 3: that would get them in renewed legal jeopardy like they 190 00:10:33,590 --> 00:10:35,630 Speaker 3: did with Dominion. So I think it's this kind of 191 00:10:35,690 --> 00:10:37,490 Speaker 3: balancing act that they're doing right now. 192 00:10:38,090 --> 00:10:40,300 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. OK, so if you look at this fight 193 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,890 Speaker 1: that's playing out now, if Trump and Murdoch go to 194 00:10:43,950 --> 00:10:48,390 Speaker 1: war over Trump's connections to Epstein, who do you think 195 00:10:48,429 --> 00:10:49,510 Speaker 1: has the upper hand? 196 00:10:50,230 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 3: I think without question, Trump has the upper hand. You know, 197 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,780 Speaker 3: look at Republicans who went to war with Trump over 198 00:10:57,420 --> 00:11:02,500 Speaker 3: Jeffrey Epstein. Marjorie Taylor Greene is one. Thomas Massey is another. 199 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,610 Speaker 3: These are both Congress people. Well, Marjorie Taylor Greene, in 200 00:11:06,650 --> 00:11:10,650 Speaker 3: her case, quit Congress. And Thomas Massey lost his reelection 201 00:11:10,730 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 3: and is no longer serving. So, you know, those are 202 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,580 Speaker 3: two recent examples of people who tried to go to 203 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 3: war with Trump over Epstein and fought for more disclosure. 204 00:11:22,100 --> 00:11:26,010 Speaker 3: And the voters rejected them and sided with Trump. So 205 00:11:26,030 --> 00:11:28,390 Speaker 3: I think that's, again, another reason that Rupert should be 206 00:11:28,429 --> 00:11:32,190 Speaker 3: cautious about getting Fox too far on the other side 207 00:11:32,230 --> 00:11:32,390 Speaker 3: of Trump. 208 00:11:33,580 --> 00:11:36,099 Speaker 1: On the other hand, though, Rupert Murdoch has run a 209 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:40,670 Speaker 1: media empire for decades and Trump is nearing the second 210 00:11:40,710 --> 00:11:44,349 Speaker 1: half of his second term and is decreasing in popularity 211 00:11:44,410 --> 00:11:45,590 Speaker 1: among the American public. 212 00:11:45,950 --> 00:11:48,090 Speaker 3: No, that's a great point. That will be, you know, 213 00:11:48,150 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 3: I think a dynamic that we will see continue to 214 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,059 Speaker 3: become even more pronounced, you know, as Trump becomes a 215 00:11:54,100 --> 00:11:59,580 Speaker 3: lame duck and his support wanes, you know, whether Fox 216 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,870 Speaker 3: News or tries to break with Trump and tries to 217 00:12:02,929 --> 00:12:07,890 Speaker 3: position a new candidate for the future is definitely something 218 00:12:08,250 --> 00:12:11,010 Speaker 3: that is very possible. But again, I will point out 219 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:16,500 Speaker 3: that this happened before. After the 2020 election, Trump lost 220 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 3: the election. He was under indictment. He was in exile 221 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 3: in Mar-a-Lago, completely out of politics. And Rupert made a 222 00:12:26,140 --> 00:12:31,990 Speaker 3: very strong effort to get Florida Governor Ron DeSantis kind 223 00:12:32,010 --> 00:12:35,380 Speaker 3: of elevated and promoted as the future of the Republican Party. 224 00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:40,849 Speaker 3: And famously, Rupert Murdoch's tabloid, The New York Post, splashed 225 00:12:40,970 --> 00:12:44,550 Speaker 3: a whole cover photograph of DeSantis. The cover of the New. 226 00:12:44,510 --> 00:12:48,030 Speaker 6: York Post says, young GOP star DeSantis rumps to victory 227 00:12:48,290 --> 00:12:49,130 Speaker 6: in Florida. 228 00:12:49,750 --> 00:12:51,270 Speaker 3: DeSantis is the future. 229 00:12:51,290 --> 00:12:53,729 Speaker 7: I think Governor DeSantis is the biggest single winner of 230 00:12:53,770 --> 00:12:57,540 Speaker 7: the night, and he will almost certainly become the rallying 231 00:12:57,620 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 7: point for everybody in the Republican Party who wants to 232 00:13:00,900 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 7: move beyond President Trump. 233 00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 3: If there is a Trump-DeSantis contest, it will be between 234 00:13:05,660 --> 00:13:11,210 Speaker 3: forward-looking landslide winner and backward-looking former president who cannot accept 235 00:13:11,250 --> 00:13:14,610 Speaker 3: his loss. And DeSantis promptly, you know, lost the Republican 236 00:13:14,650 --> 00:13:17,430 Speaker 3: primary as soon as Trump got back into politics. So, 237 00:13:17,950 --> 00:13:20,190 Speaker 3: you know, we've seen Rupert try to turn the page 238 00:13:20,470 --> 00:13:23,390 Speaker 3: before when Trump is kind of on his back foot, 239 00:13:23,870 --> 00:13:26,790 Speaker 3: and it hasn't worked. But again, I think as you 240 00:13:26,809 --> 00:13:29,870 Speaker 3: point out, this time is slightly different because this is 241 00:13:29,929 --> 00:13:33,429 Speaker 3: Trump's last term. The Iran war has made him uniquely 242 00:13:33,490 --> 00:13:38,220 Speaker 3: unpopular amongst even Republicans. So it's something definitely I'm going 243 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:38,780 Speaker 3: to be watching. 244 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 7: Yeah. 245 00:13:40,340 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 2: Okay. 246 00:13:40,500 --> 00:13:43,340 Speaker 1: And so just finally, how do you see the Murdoch-Trump 247 00:13:43,380 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: relationship playing out post-presidency? Do you think that Murdoch will 248 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,610 Speaker 1: continue to give Trump a platform? 249 00:13:49,950 --> 00:13:51,370 Speaker 2: Where does this end? 250 00:13:51,970 --> 00:13:56,110 Speaker 3: Good question. Rupert's 95 now, and Trump is the oldest 251 00:13:56,309 --> 00:13:59,699 Speaker 3: American president in history. So I don't think either of 252 00:13:59,740 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 3: them have long futures in public life. But no, I 253 00:14:02,900 --> 00:14:05,949 Speaker 3: don't think Fox will continue to be a megaphone for 254 00:14:06,010 --> 00:14:08,010 Speaker 3: Trump to the degree it has been once he's out 255 00:14:08,030 --> 00:14:12,829 Speaker 3: of office. I think they will be looking for another 256 00:14:12,890 --> 00:14:15,390 Speaker 3: candidate to back, you know, and to me, I think 257 00:14:15,470 --> 00:14:17,530 Speaker 3: one of the most closely watched things that I will 258 00:14:17,550 --> 00:14:21,780 Speaker 3: be following is to see how Fox either embraces or 259 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 3: does not embrace Vice President J.D. Vance. Vice President J.D. Vance, 260 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,370 Speaker 3: in many ways, is trying to position himself as the future, 261 00:14:31,490 --> 00:14:34,530 Speaker 3: as the heir of the MAGA movement. And part of 262 00:14:34,590 --> 00:14:37,090 Speaker 3: that positioning of being the heir to the MAGA movement 263 00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:42,170 Speaker 3: will be getting the Murdoch empire behind him. And so far, 264 00:14:42,610 --> 00:14:46,350 Speaker 3: they have not fully done that. The bigger question to 265 00:14:46,390 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 3: me is who Murdoch will kind of get behind next. 266 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,260 Speaker 2: Well, Gabe, thank you so much for your time. 267 00:14:53,740 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: Great. 268 00:14:53,940 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 3: It's good to be with you. 269 00:15:01,090 --> 00:15:03,610 Speaker 1: And Gabriel Sherman will appear at the Sydney Opera House 270 00:15:03,690 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: on Sunday 4th of October as part of Curious. Also 271 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,500 Speaker 1: in the news, former police officer Beau Lamar Condon has 272 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: pleaded not guilty to the murder of Sydney couple Jessie. 273 00:15:25,300 --> 00:15:26,380 Speaker 2: Baird and Luke Davies. 274 00:15:27,010 --> 00:15:30,090 Speaker 1: Claiming he acted in self-defence then panicked and started cleaning 275 00:15:30,130 --> 00:15:33,930 Speaker 1: up the crime scene. The prosecution say Lamar Condon became 276 00:15:34,030 --> 00:15:37,420 Speaker 1: obsessed with Baird after a brief relationship and planned the 277 00:15:37,460 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: murder in early 2024. But the defence claim the fatal 278 00:15:41,300 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: shots were fired during a tussle that broke out when 279 00:15:43,700 --> 00:15:46,420 Speaker 1: Lamar Condon went to the house to pick up some belongings. 280 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: And the White House has been forced to promote its 281 00:15:50,660 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: own feed online, branding it Trump TV, in an effort 282 00:15:54,090 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: to ensure President Trump's public appearances are covered. It's after 283 00:15:57,940 --> 00:16:00,700 Speaker 1: the major US TV outlets agreed to suspend their video 284 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,470 Speaker 1: coverage of Trump in solidarity after several journalists were banned 285 00:16:04,530 --> 00:16:05,470 Speaker 1: by the administration. 286 00:16:05,490 --> 00:16:08,170 Speaker 2: I'm Rumi Jones. This is 7am. 287 00:16:08,510 --> 00:16:09,130 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.