WEBVTT - What happened to Virginia Giuffre?

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<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Christinamio.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Monday, April twenty eight, twenty twenty five. The government

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<v Speaker 1>knew Russia had designs on an Indonesian military base back

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<v Speaker 1>in March before the federal election was called. Anthony Albanesi

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<v Speaker 1>is shaping up to be a bigger spender than his predecessor,

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<v Speaker 1>Bill Shorten. But the big difference is the PM doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>appear to have a plan to pay for his cost

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<v Speaker 1>of living cash splash. That exclusive analysis is live right

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<v Speaker 1>now at the Australian dot com dot au. Prince Andrew

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<v Speaker 1>accuser Virginia Duffrey was in and out of hospital emergency

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<v Speaker 1>departments in the final months of her life. The Australian

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<v Speaker 1>is revealing today the forty one year old mother of

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<v Speaker 1>three died by suicide at her Perth home on Friday. Today,

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<v Speaker 1>our Queensland Bureau Chief Michael McKenna reflects on his last

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<v Speaker 1>conversation with the woman who waged war against sex trafficking

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<v Speaker 1>and abuse. A note before we begin this episode discusses

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<v Speaker 1>sexual abuse and suicide. Audrey Strauss had only been acting

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<v Speaker 1>as the United States Attorney for the Southern District of

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<v Speaker 1>New York for a month when she made a stunning announcement.

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<v Speaker 2>Maxwell and Epstein had a method. Typically there, we befriend

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<v Speaker 2>these young girls by asking them questions about their lives,

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<v Speaker 2>pretending to be taking an interest in them.

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<v Speaker 1>That morning, the socialite Galline Maxwell had been arrested following

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<v Speaker 1>a raid on her secluded New Hampshire mansion and charged

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<v Speaker 1>with trafficking teenagers and girls for abuse by the disgraced

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<v Speaker 1>financier Jeffrey Epstein.

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<v Speaker 2>Maxwell was among Epstein's closest associatest and helped him exploit

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<v Speaker 2>girls who were as young as fourteen years old. Maxwell

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<v Speaker 2>played a critical role in helping Epstein to identify a

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<v Speaker 2>friend and groom minor victims for abuse. In some cases,

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<v Speaker 2>Maxwell participated in the abuse herself.

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<v Speaker 1>It was July of twenty twenty and the world had

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<v Speaker 1>rearranged itself around the coronavirus pandemic. On the other side

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<v Speaker 1>of the world, one of Epstein's most prominent accuses received

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<v Speaker 1>news of Maxwell's arrest.

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<v Speaker 3>Last night at eleven seventy m My lawyer calls me,

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<v Speaker 3>sickred colleague, and she says, are you singing down for this?

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<v Speaker 4>Because Gilan's been arrested.

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<v Speaker 5>Wow.

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<v Speaker 4>I was elated. I was crying with tears of joy.

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<v Speaker 4>My heart was raising miles, like a million miles a minute.

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<v Speaker 1>Virginia Giuffrey living a quiet suburban life in cans with

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<v Speaker 1>her former husband Robert at the time. The next day,

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<v Speaker 1>she was on the phone with the Australian's Queensland Bureau

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<v Speaker 1>chief Michael McKenna, who was racing to meet a looming

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<v Speaker 1>print deadline.

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<v Speaker 6>Thanks for doing this again, I really appreciate it. If

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<v Speaker 6>you're here's some tapping, It's just me trying to tap

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<v Speaker 6>some of the answers out so I can make sure

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<v Speaker 6>I get deadline. I do a lot of work up

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<v Speaker 6>in Cape York and North Queensland and was aware that

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<v Speaker 6>Virginia was living in far North Queensland, and I was

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<v Speaker 6>given her telephone number by a friend. I rang up

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<v Speaker 6>that number and her husband Robert answered. I said who

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<v Speaker 6>I was, and that I was interested in talking to

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<v Speaker 6>her about Maxwell's arrest and how she felt. And you know,

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<v Speaker 6>some people respond differently when contacted by journalists, and in

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<v Speaker 6>this case, Robert really gave it to me. He called

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<v Speaker 6>me a few names, and he peppered it with a

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<v Speaker 6>few expletives. It's not my first radio I'm being generalist

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<v Speaker 6>for a long time, and look. I told him that

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<v Speaker 6>I understood his passion and apologized for the intrusion and

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<v Speaker 6>put the phone down. A few minutes later, my phone

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<v Speaker 6>rang and it was Virginia on the phone, apologizing.

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<v Speaker 5>We had a bit of a chuckle.

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<v Speaker 6>I said that I understood, and that if I was

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<v Speaker 6>in his shoes, I probably would have laden the assault

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<v Speaker 6>with a few more expletives. I heard a laugh in

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<v Speaker 6>the background. It was him, and then from that moment

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<v Speaker 6>on we started having a pretty friendly conversation. They then

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<v Speaker 6>later agreed to do the interview.

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<v Speaker 1>Virginia Drew Frey died by suicide at her home in

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<v Speaker 1>Perth on Friday. She was forty one years old.

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<v Speaker 7>In a statement, Virginia Geuphra's family said she was a

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<v Speaker 7>fierce warrior in the fight against sexual abuse and sex trafficking.

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<v Speaker 7>She was the light that lifted so many survivors. In

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<v Speaker 7>the end, the toll of abuse is so heavy that

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<v Speaker 7>it became unbearable for Virginia to handle its weight. We

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<v Speaker 7>know that she is with the angels. Western Australia Police

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<v Speaker 7>say they're not treating her death as suspicious.

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<v Speaker 1>Giffrey alleged she was recruited by Maxwell following a chance

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<v Speaker 1>meeting at Donald Trump's Mara a Lago club in the

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<v Speaker 1>year two thousand, when she was sixteen years old and

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<v Speaker 1>working as a locker room attendant. She described the encounter

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<v Speaker 1>in the twenty twenty documentary Surviving Jeffrey Epstein.

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<v Speaker 3>She was like this really bright Mary Poppins kind of

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<v Speaker 3>a figure, and then she goes, oh, you know what,

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<v Speaker 3>I know this guy. There's an opportunity. Actually, if you

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<v Speaker 3>want to become a real massage therapist, we can get

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<v Speaker 3>she trained within the next few weeks. Jeffrey Giland told

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<v Speaker 3>me that I need to quit my job with mar

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<v Speaker 3>Lago because I'll be traveling with them as they're traveling massuse.

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<v Speaker 1>Giffrey claims she was also assaulted by the Duke of York,

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<v Speaker 1>Prince Andrew, who counted Epstein and Maxwell among his close

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<v Speaker 1>personal friends. The UK Royal has always denied the allegations

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<v Speaker 1>against him, settled with Juffrey out of court in twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty two. Michael Virginia Guffrey had less than a day

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<v Speaker 1>to process the news that Glenn Maxwell had been arrested

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<v Speaker 1>and charged with a range of trafficking and conspiracy charges.

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<v Speaker 1>What was her demeanor like when you spoke with her

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<v Speaker 1>back in twenty twenty.

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<v Speaker 5>She was a little reluctant, and she was reluctant in

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<v Speaker 5>one way. She had at various times.

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<v Speaker 6>Been in the middle of a global story, and she

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<v Speaker 6>wasn't like a politician or an actor.

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<v Speaker 5>She didn't really know how to deal with it. It

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<v Speaker 5>was all.

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<v Speaker 6>Really overwhelming to her, and she wasn't someone that really

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<v Speaker 6>chased the limelight or anything like that. But she kept

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<v Speaker 6>saying to me in off the record conversations that she

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<v Speaker 6>had to be careful that she was going to do

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<v Speaker 6>the interview, but what was most important to her was

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<v Speaker 6>not to imperil the trial, given that Maxwell had just

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<v Speaker 6>been arrested, and that's why she wasn't going to give

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<v Speaker 6>a press conference or give interviews generally. But she was

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<v Speaker 6>very considered when she said, but this was different. This

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<v Speaker 6>was a woman who had found me, who had groomed me,

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<v Speaker 6>abused me, and then handed me over to Jeffrey Epstein.

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<v Speaker 6>There was a real I noticed a real steal with

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<v Speaker 6>her when she talked about that.

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<v Speaker 1>Virginia Giufray was never called to give evidence at Gallaine

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<v Speaker 1>Maxwell's trial, where she was ultimately found guilty of five

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<v Speaker 1>counts of sex trafficking.

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<v Speaker 8>Jeffrey Epstein's partner in crime, were sentenced today to twenty

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<v Speaker 8>years in prison for sex trafficking minors. Epstein was indicted

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<v Speaker 8>on federal sex trafficking charges back in twenty nineteen, but

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<v Speaker 8>committed suicide in prison.

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<v Speaker 6>Certainly in the day after Maxwell's arrest in the United States,

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<v Speaker 6>when I spoke to Virginia, she expected that she was

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<v Speaker 6>going to give evidence at the trial, and she told

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<v Speaker 6>me that she was willing and eager to give evidence

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<v Speaker 6>at that trial. And her absence from the trial was

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<v Speaker 6>quite extraordinary, given it was her story that really pushed

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<v Speaker 6>the allegations against Epstein and Maxwell onto the front pages globally.

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<v Speaker 6>There's been speculation in the United States press that because

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<v Speaker 6>she had a parallel civil case against Prince Andrew, which

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<v Speaker 6>was later settled purportedly with a payout of fourteen point

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<v Speaker 6>six million pounds he paid out to her without any

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<v Speaker 6>admission of liability or guilt.

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<v Speaker 5>That was one of the reasons that there was a.

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<v Speaker 6>Parallel civil case, and Maxwell's lawyers could argue that there

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<v Speaker 6>was a financial incentive for her to give evidence against

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<v Speaker 6>her Equally, there was also speculation that there had been

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<v Speaker 6>inconsistencies in her public accounts given to the media about

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<v Speaker 6>what happened with Epstein and Maxwell and Prince Andrew, starting

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<v Speaker 6>from when she was first recruited to work at Moreligo.

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<v Speaker 6>When we last spoke, she told me that if she

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<v Speaker 6>was ultimately paid out or she did get any more compensation,

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<v Speaker 6>that she really wanted to dedicate her life to helping

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<v Speaker 6>victims of abuse, and that's what she hoped would be

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<v Speaker 6>her legacy was to help people to set an example

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<v Speaker 6>as to someone who was willing to get up and

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<v Speaker 6>make the accusations against her alleged offender, and also to

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<v Speaker 6>help provide platforms with support for those victims.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up. How Virginia Dufray became a symbol of the

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<v Speaker 1>me too movement. Virginia Dufrey kept a reasonably low profile

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<v Speaker 1>after relocating to Perth with her husband and children a

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<v Speaker 1>few years ago. She told the Australians Michael McKenna in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty that she appreciated the power of the media in

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<v Speaker 1>bringing perpetrators like Jeffrey Epstein and Glen Maxwell to justice,

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<v Speaker 1>but she didn't necessarily seek it out.

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<v Speaker 4>And unfortunately I have more faith in the media at

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<v Speaker 4>the moment than I view the Justice Department, because you

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<v Speaker 4>guys are actually helping us tell the Justice Department how

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<v Speaker 4>do the jobs? Like, guys, we cannot let these people

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<v Speaker 4>keep getting off the hook.

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<v Speaker 1>In turn, the media has handled her story with relative care,

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<v Speaker 1>but Jiffrey exploded back into the public sphere in February

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<v Speaker 1>when she shared a post on Instagram that suggested she

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<v Speaker 1>had days to live following a collision with a bus

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<v Speaker 1>on a Perth Highway. Giffrey later backtracked, saying the post

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<v Speaker 1>had been made in error, and Western Australian Police said

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<v Speaker 1>the crash wasn't as serious as Giffrey suggested. Around the

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<v Speaker 1>same time, it emerged that the mother of three was

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<v Speaker 1>facing a criminal charge in the West Australian courts for

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<v Speaker 1>breaching a family violence restraining order. Michael Virginia Jefrey did

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<v Speaker 1>some big interviews in her time, most notably with the

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<v Speaker 1>BBC's Panorama program, in which she really doubled down on

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<v Speaker 1>her allegations against Prince Andrew, and with the documentary Surviving

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<v Speaker 1>Jeffrey Epstein. In many ways, she was the face of

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<v Speaker 1>what she called the fight against trafficking and sexual abuse.

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<v Speaker 1>But she didn't really seek out the media after she

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<v Speaker 1>spoke to you in twenty twenty, and the media mostly

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<v Speaker 1>let her be. How do you report the public interest

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<v Speaker 1>aspects of a story like this when the central figures

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<v Speaker 1>life is so obviously in turmoil.

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<v Speaker 6>The first thing is to respect all involved, and that

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<v Speaker 6>includes the alleged defender.

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<v Speaker 5>So you keep to the facts that.

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<v Speaker 6>Are known, and you respect the people involved insomuch as.

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<v Speaker 5>With a victim, is you have empathy for these people.

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<v Speaker 6>For victims, know that they've been through a lot, know

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<v Speaker 6>that they are probably going through a lot in now,

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<v Speaker 6>probably going through this process of being in the public

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<v Speaker 6>eye and the possible ability of having to give a testimony.

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<v Speaker 6>So I've done this quite a lot over my career,

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<v Speaker 6>and it's really just to show respect, ask the questions

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<v Speaker 6>and lay it out that you're going to in some

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<v Speaker 6>cases test what they're going to say, and ask those

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<v Speaker 6>questions and report dutifully. We've seen in recent years that

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<v Speaker 6>some of the media can take an advocacy role in

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<v Speaker 6>reporting these sorts of cases. So it's really down to

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<v Speaker 6>the journalists and the publication or the broadcaster to do

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<v Speaker 6>their job. The way that they're supposed to do, and.

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<v Speaker 5>That is to keep to the facts.

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<v Speaker 6>Do not introduce evidence into the public arena during a trial,

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<v Speaker 6>for instance, unless that evidence has been placed before the jury.

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<v Speaker 6>There are rules, and some of them are legal and

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<v Speaker 6>some of them are just obvious, and that involves not

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<v Speaker 6>being an advocate the facts, asking the right questions and

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<v Speaker 6>reporting without favor.

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<v Speaker 5>That's what the public expects.

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<v Speaker 1>Michael McKenna is the Australian's Queensland Bureau chief. You can

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<v Speaker 1>watch the video of his interview with Virginia Dufrey and

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<v Speaker 1>read the latest about her death at forty one at

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<v Speaker 1>the Australian dot com dot au