1 00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Apod Jake Production. 2 00:00:15,601 --> 00:00:19,281 Speaker 2: Welcome back to episode four of The Missing Matter. My 3 00:00:19,361 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 2: name's Sally for those of you who are jumping in 4 00:00:21,881 --> 00:00:25,561 Speaker 2: for the first time, I am the daughter of long 5 00:00:25,641 --> 00:00:29,441 Speaker 2: term missing person Marian Barter. Next month in June, it 6 00:00:29,481 --> 00:00:33,681 Speaker 2: will be twenty eight years since my mum vanished. She 7 00:00:33,721 --> 00:00:35,641 Speaker 2: went on a trip of a lifetime and we've never 8 00:00:35,641 --> 00:00:41,361 Speaker 2: seen her again since. And with me is my research extraordinary. 9 00:00:41,921 --> 00:00:45,921 Speaker 3: Johnny Condos, Hello everybody, Thanks for joining us again on 10 00:00:45,961 --> 00:00:50,081 Speaker 3: this episode. I'm a good friend of Sale now also 11 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 3: a researcher, been involved in this case since twenty nineteen. 12 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:59,961 Speaker 2: The reason where doing this is because it hasn't finished yet. 13 00:00:59,961 --> 00:01:00,881 Speaker 1: We've still got more. 14 00:01:00,761 --> 00:01:02,241 Speaker 3: To do, right, no endless. 15 00:01:02,441 --> 00:01:03,841 Speaker 1: So last year in. 16 00:01:03,761 --> 00:01:08,561 Speaker 2: October I set about to go overseas on a research 17 00:01:08,801 --> 00:01:12,641 Speaker 2: trip to find some more clues and speak to a 18 00:01:12,681 --> 00:01:16,921 Speaker 2: few people. And the next few episodes you're going to 19 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,241 Speaker 2: hear about what we did and how we did it 20 00:01:19,401 --> 00:01:26,401 Speaker 2: and what we stumbled across on the way. Do you 21 00:01:26,441 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 2: want to tell everyone why we needed to go to Japan? 22 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:34,361 Speaker 3: Japan was a bit of a strange sort of inclusion 23 00:01:34,521 --> 00:01:38,601 Speaker 3: into the trip, but it was also so essential because 24 00:01:38,601 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 3: we don't actually know concretely if your mum even went 25 00:01:42,881 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 3: to Japan. So some people might think, well, why bother. 26 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,921 Speaker 3: We all know that she flew on Korean air. It's 27 00:01:49,961 --> 00:01:54,481 Speaker 3: assumed that she landed in Korea and then she picked 28 00:01:54,561 --> 00:01:57,961 Speaker 3: up her bags, they went through transit whatever, and then 29 00:01:58,081 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 3: she popped out in London. But we have information from 30 00:02:02,641 --> 00:02:06,721 Speaker 3: her saying that she was like a pack horse and 31 00:02:06,761 --> 00:02:09,881 Speaker 3: she would never do that again. So that to us 32 00:02:09,921 --> 00:02:14,121 Speaker 3: indicated that the cases were not just simply being transited 33 00:02:14,161 --> 00:02:17,441 Speaker 3: through Korea, that there was more. There was more to 34 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,201 Speaker 3: Asia than just Korea for a short you know, to 35 00:02:21,281 --> 00:02:24,121 Speaker 3: our stopover or a little rest in a hotel like 36 00:02:24,161 --> 00:02:29,281 Speaker 3: the Hotel Nico for example. So therefore, when you got 37 00:02:29,321 --> 00:02:33,921 Speaker 3: the Hotel Nico Narita letter on that note paper, I 38 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,041 Speaker 3: guess it was always assumed right that within your family 39 00:02:37,641 --> 00:02:39,441 Speaker 3: that she had gone to Japan. 40 00:02:41,001 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 2: Well, she says in it doesn't she. I've just had 41 00:02:43,121 --> 00:02:45,361 Speaker 2: an interesting time visiting in the East. 42 00:02:45,401 --> 00:02:50,001 Speaker 4: East is sal and Chris, greetings from beautiful but very 43 00:02:50,041 --> 00:02:54,321 Speaker 4: wet Uk. I finally arrived in England after a most 44 00:02:54,401 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 4: interesting visit to the East. Cloud is somewhat by far 45 00:02:58,041 --> 00:03:00,601 Speaker 4: too much luggage. I felt like a pack horse. 46 00:03:01,481 --> 00:03:04,881 Speaker 2: It's eight days from the time she left Australia coming 47 00:03:04,881 --> 00:03:07,481 Speaker 2: out out of Brisbane Airport, as you say, on Korean 48 00:03:07,481 --> 00:03:12,281 Speaker 2: air landing in South Korea, and then her posting me 49 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,481 Speaker 2: that letter on that notepaper, and in using the envelope 50 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,601 Speaker 2: from the hotel as well, which was posted in tom 51 00:03:20,641 --> 00:03:23,761 Speaker 2: Bridge in the UK. So we have got a very 52 00:03:23,881 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 2: narrow window where we thought, when you are looking at 53 00:03:27,121 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 2: cases like this, you actually want to get the smallest 54 00:03:31,561 --> 00:03:34,041 Speaker 2: amount of timeline you possibly can, because that's when you 55 00:03:34,121 --> 00:03:36,801 Speaker 2: can actually find the information. You know, I think you 56 00:03:36,841 --> 00:03:38,961 Speaker 2: and I when we were first discussing it, it was 57 00:03:39,001 --> 00:03:43,561 Speaker 2: a case of this element is about mum, whereas the 58 00:03:43,601 --> 00:03:47,241 Speaker 2: other elements were more focused on Rick Blum, which will. 59 00:03:47,081 --> 00:03:49,601 Speaker 1: We agree, So we needed to start there. 60 00:03:49,601 --> 00:03:52,321 Speaker 2: Obviously, Japan is the closest to Australia, so we hopped 61 00:03:52,321 --> 00:03:53,321 Speaker 2: on a plane and off we went. 62 00:03:56,801 --> 00:03:59,081 Speaker 3: So it was definitely about your mum. It was about 63 00:03:59,121 --> 00:04:02,561 Speaker 3: seeing whether she had stayed at the hotel Nico Narita. 64 00:04:03,121 --> 00:04:06,481 Speaker 3: It was seeing whether there was any immigration records, so 65 00:04:06,641 --> 00:04:10,281 Speaker 3: coming in and out of Japan too, because you know, 66 00:04:10,361 --> 00:04:15,841 Speaker 3: within the inquest documentation it was stated that immigration Japan 67 00:04:16,121 --> 00:04:19,041 Speaker 3: and also through all of their connections back to New 68 00:04:19,081 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 3: South Wales Police that she didn't go there, but neither 69 00:04:23,921 --> 00:04:28,161 Speaker 3: did Rick Bloom according to the documents that we saw 70 00:04:28,241 --> 00:04:31,721 Speaker 3: within the brief of evidence. So that tells me that 71 00:04:31,761 --> 00:04:35,121 Speaker 3: there is an issue because we know that Rick Bloom 72 00:04:35,161 --> 00:04:38,561 Speaker 3: went to Japan. So that's also why we wanted to 73 00:04:38,601 --> 00:04:43,121 Speaker 3: go face to face and actually see utilizing Sally's documentation 74 00:04:43,281 --> 00:04:46,721 Speaker 3: that she got as part of the process post in quest, 75 00:04:46,801 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 3: which you would have heard last episode. So we just 76 00:04:50,561 --> 00:04:52,361 Speaker 3: wanted to see whether there was anything there. 77 00:04:52,721 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: So in the last episode you would have heard me 78 00:04:54,561 --> 00:04:58,041 Speaker 2: talk about all the hoops I had to jump through 79 00:04:58,121 --> 00:05:00,081 Speaker 2: to get the grant of probate right, and that was 80 00:05:00,121 --> 00:05:02,601 Speaker 2: really key essential so that we could take that document 81 00:05:02,681 --> 00:05:06,401 Speaker 2: with me overseas as the next of kin appointed by 82 00:05:06,601 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court here in Australia to be able to 83 00:05:09,001 --> 00:05:11,681 Speaker 2: access that information. And so for those of you who 84 00:05:11,761 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 2: haven't put the dots together, Rick Blum we know flew 85 00:05:16,001 --> 00:05:21,041 Speaker 2: out on Tuesday, the seventeenth of June. He flew on 86 00:05:21,401 --> 00:05:25,481 Speaker 2: JL which is Japan Airlines. He was using a passport 87 00:05:25,481 --> 00:05:29,041 Speaker 2: in the name of Richard Lloyd Westbury, which was not 88 00:05:29,201 --> 00:05:33,721 Speaker 2: his name at the time either. Now his name at 89 00:05:33,721 --> 00:05:37,721 Speaker 2: the time was Frederick David de Heevideri, so that was 90 00:05:37,761 --> 00:05:41,361 Speaker 2: his legal name in Australia. But remembering that my mum 91 00:05:41,481 --> 00:05:45,001 Speaker 2: had actually changed her name to Florabella Ramckel, which we 92 00:05:45,081 --> 00:05:48,601 Speaker 2: now know that Rick Blum had a driver's license, a 93 00:05:48,641 --> 00:05:51,921 Speaker 2: Queensland driver's license in the name for Nan Ramckel, So 94 00:05:52,001 --> 00:05:55,361 Speaker 2: the only two Ramckels in the entire country of Australia 95 00:05:55,521 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 2: are those two people. So he leaves on the Tuesday, 96 00:06:00,681 --> 00:06:03,361 Speaker 2: the Friday, is the last day of term. My mom 97 00:06:03,401 --> 00:06:05,721 Speaker 2: then comes and has a roast dinner with us on 98 00:06:05,761 --> 00:06:09,001 Speaker 2: the Saturday night is my memory, with her friend Leslie, 99 00:06:09,081 --> 00:06:11,161 Speaker 2: and then she flies out the next day on the 100 00:06:11,201 --> 00:06:15,001 Speaker 2: twenty second. Now mum flies out on Korean air and 101 00:06:15,161 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: her first stop south Korea. So the other thing I 102 00:06:18,201 --> 00:06:19,801 Speaker 2: want to sort of talk about again and I have 103 00:06:19,841 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: spoken about a few times, is that Interpol do not 104 00:06:22,041 --> 00:06:25,361 Speaker 2: hold records after your first point of land. So if 105 00:06:25,481 --> 00:06:27,921 Speaker 2: Mum was landing in South Korea, that's what's documented on 106 00:06:27,961 --> 00:06:31,481 Speaker 2: Interpol anytime after that until such time as she comes 107 00:06:31,521 --> 00:06:34,721 Speaker 2: back into Australia, which we now know is Hong Kong 108 00:06:35,281 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 2: on Catha. So that tells us she didn't have a 109 00:06:37,481 --> 00:06:40,841 Speaker 2: return ticket on the same airline, so we don't know 110 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,561 Speaker 2: where she went from South Korea to Hong Kong six 111 00:06:44,601 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 2: weeks later. What happened in between outside of her sending 112 00:06:48,241 --> 00:06:50,601 Speaker 2: us letters and postcards and her friends, which she did 113 00:06:50,841 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 2: numerous times. So what I have is a letter that 114 00:06:56,001 --> 00:06:59,121 Speaker 2: mum wrote to me on Hotel Nico and Nerita paper, 115 00:07:00,041 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 2: and that's in an envelope from the hotel as well, 116 00:07:02,761 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 2: which she posted in Tonbridge in the UK. Rick Blum 117 00:07:06,601 --> 00:07:10,281 Speaker 2: says in his interview with police, they asked him where 118 00:07:10,281 --> 00:07:13,161 Speaker 2: did you stay when you landed in Japan? And he 119 00:07:13,321 --> 00:07:15,761 Speaker 2: just said, straight off the cuff, without even a thought, 120 00:07:16,081 --> 00:07:18,521 Speaker 2: I say at Hotel Niko Narita, because that's where I 121 00:07:18,561 --> 00:07:23,961 Speaker 2: always stay. We've actually used AI to recreate this police interview. 122 00:07:27,041 --> 00:07:29,121 Speaker 5: And so you traveled to Narita in Japan? 123 00:07:29,441 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: Yes? 124 00:07:29,961 --> 00:07:30,801 Speaker 5: Do you remember that? 125 00:07:31,361 --> 00:07:31,681 Speaker 2: Yes? 126 00:07:31,961 --> 00:07:35,801 Speaker 5: Do you remember? We stayed at the Narita, at the 127 00:07:35,881 --> 00:07:37,041 Speaker 5: Narita Hotel. 128 00:07:37,121 --> 00:07:38,561 Speaker 2: I think it's it was called. 129 00:07:38,601 --> 00:07:43,161 Speaker 5: It's the hotel owned by Japan Airlines there at Narita. 130 00:07:43,241 --> 00:07:45,241 Speaker 5: Who did you stay there with, mister Blum? 131 00:07:45,761 --> 00:07:47,121 Speaker 2: Nobody myself. 132 00:07:47,641 --> 00:07:50,881 Speaker 5: On the twenty second of June nineteen ninety seven, Marion 133 00:07:51,001 --> 00:07:55,201 Speaker 5: left Eagle Farm Airport in Brisbane. Yes, and she too 134 00:07:55,321 --> 00:07:59,641 Speaker 5: traveled to Japan. Marion sent correspondence to a daughter Yes, 135 00:07:59,841 --> 00:08:04,041 Speaker 5: soon after leaving on stationary from the Hotel Nico Narita. Yes, 136 00:08:05,201 --> 00:08:06,521 Speaker 5: the hotel that you stayed in. 137 00:08:07,601 --> 00:08:09,241 Speaker 3: Possibly, I'm not one hundred percent sure. 138 00:08:11,201 --> 00:08:12,761 Speaker 1: This is why it was important that we went. 139 00:08:13,001 --> 00:08:15,841 Speaker 2: We really wanted to go and see did Mum actually 140 00:08:15,921 --> 00:08:18,201 Speaker 2: land in Japan, because in my heart of hearts, I 141 00:08:18,281 --> 00:08:22,041 Speaker 2: think she did and we needed to go down that track. 142 00:08:24,201 --> 00:08:30,281 Speaker 2: So what's on tomorrow, Well, it's Mum's birthday, so I 143 00:08:30,401 --> 00:08:36,801 Speaker 2: have to find a cake celebrate her and hopefully that 144 00:08:36,801 --> 00:08:42,321 Speaker 2: brings us a little bit of luck finding some information. 145 00:08:42,441 --> 00:08:47,121 Speaker 2: So it will be at Hotel Nico and Narita. Simon, 146 00:08:47,441 --> 00:08:53,241 Speaker 2: my cousin is coming. He's taken three days off to 147 00:08:53,361 --> 00:08:57,401 Speaker 2: come and help us while we're there, and the key 148 00:08:57,761 --> 00:08:59,801 Speaker 2: is to try and see if we can find any 149 00:08:59,841 --> 00:09:03,081 Speaker 2: proof of marriage between them. It's going to be difficult 150 00:09:03,121 --> 00:09:06,121 Speaker 2: because there's two people in that and they might not 151 00:09:06,161 --> 00:09:10,401 Speaker 2: give us the records about another person, but hopefully they'll 152 00:09:10,481 --> 00:09:14,481 Speaker 2: let us know there's any records for Mum and we'll 153 00:09:14,521 --> 00:09:16,841 Speaker 2: be at the hotel. So we're staying at the actual hotel. 154 00:09:16,961 --> 00:09:19,121 Speaker 2: I've brought the letter that Mum wrote to me, so 155 00:09:19,161 --> 00:09:21,641 Speaker 2: I've got that and I can show them that and 156 00:09:21,681 --> 00:09:26,121 Speaker 2: see if anyone remembers anyone was working there in nineteen 157 00:09:26,201 --> 00:09:26,721 Speaker 2: ninety seven. 158 00:09:26,761 --> 00:09:32,441 Speaker 1: That is still possible, so they might know or remember something. 159 00:09:36,281 --> 00:09:40,201 Speaker 2: So through this journey, I've really been so blessed to 160 00:09:40,241 --> 00:09:42,961 Speaker 2: find so many kind and generous humans. 161 00:09:43,521 --> 00:09:44,041 Speaker 1: There was a. 162 00:09:44,001 --> 00:09:48,201 Speaker 2: Time, and I can't remember, I can't remember exactly when 163 00:09:48,201 --> 00:09:51,521 Speaker 2: this happened, but Chris and I were going through to 164 00:09:51,641 --> 00:09:54,441 Speaker 2: Sydney and it was a time when we're all wearing 165 00:09:54,481 --> 00:09:57,321 Speaker 2: masks and we've gone through and the woman Chris always 166 00:09:57,361 --> 00:09:59,641 Speaker 2: has my ticket on his phone, and the lady is 167 00:09:59,681 --> 00:10:00,841 Speaker 2: standing behind the counter. 168 00:10:01,401 --> 00:10:03,201 Speaker 1: As soon as he scanned mine. 169 00:10:02,961 --> 00:10:05,961 Speaker 2: She said, oh my god, Sally, I thought it was you, 170 00:10:06,241 --> 00:10:09,121 Speaker 2: and then said I listened to the podcast and I'm 171 00:10:09,281 --> 00:10:11,721 Speaker 2: so sorry for everything you've gone through, and. 172 00:10:11,681 --> 00:10:12,961 Speaker 1: She actually started crying. 173 00:10:13,601 --> 00:10:15,561 Speaker 2: She gave me a hug, and then we got up 174 00:10:15,561 --> 00:10:17,841 Speaker 2: to the lounge and my name got called out and 175 00:10:17,881 --> 00:10:19,761 Speaker 2: I went round to the counter and one of the 176 00:10:19,841 --> 00:10:22,081 Speaker 2: ladies said to me, oh, the lady downstairs has just 177 00:10:22,681 --> 00:10:25,201 Speaker 2: upgraded you to business and I went, oh my god, 178 00:10:26,561 --> 00:10:29,121 Speaker 2: that is so nice of her, not expected at all, 179 00:10:29,201 --> 00:10:32,241 Speaker 2: but thank you so much. Anyway, one of the girls 180 00:10:32,241 --> 00:10:34,801 Speaker 2: close to us in this was going through a pretty 181 00:10:34,801 --> 00:10:38,641 Speaker 2: bad situation last year and her world had just literally 182 00:10:38,721 --> 00:10:40,881 Speaker 2: turned on its head. So I sort of just went 183 00:10:40,921 --> 00:10:44,721 Speaker 2: straight into let's do something mode, and of course put 184 00:10:44,761 --> 00:10:48,961 Speaker 2: the call out and everyone just came amazingly once again. Anyway, 185 00:10:49,081 --> 00:10:51,841 Speaker 2: one of her sons, it was his eighteenth birthday. I 186 00:10:51,961 --> 00:10:54,201 Speaker 2: put a call out and said, if anyone was able 187 00:10:54,241 --> 00:10:56,401 Speaker 2: to make a cake, I'd be happily pick it up 188 00:10:56,521 --> 00:10:59,441 Speaker 2: and I'll take it to them. So anyway, I've driven 189 00:10:59,481 --> 00:11:02,401 Speaker 2: to her house and remembering too, we were wearing masks. 190 00:11:02,561 --> 00:11:04,441 Speaker 2: I come to the door and she presents me with 191 00:11:04,521 --> 00:11:07,961 Speaker 2: this professional box with a massive cake in it, which 192 00:11:08,161 --> 00:11:09,041 Speaker 2: was divine. 193 00:11:09,161 --> 00:11:11,481 Speaker 1: I was like, are you a professional cake. 194 00:11:11,321 --> 00:11:14,641 Speaker 2: Maker because this looks amazing, and she said, but I 195 00:11:14,681 --> 00:11:16,721 Speaker 2: wanted to let you know we have met before, and 196 00:11:16,761 --> 00:11:19,521 Speaker 2: I said, oh have we? She said, I'm the lady 197 00:11:19,561 --> 00:11:22,841 Speaker 2: who saw you that time when you came through the 198 00:11:22,921 --> 00:11:25,961 Speaker 2: Cornice lounge and I went, oh my god, how are you. 199 00:11:26,001 --> 00:11:29,121 Speaker 2: So we started chatting and I was telling her about 200 00:11:29,161 --> 00:11:30,641 Speaker 2: our trip at that point, because it was a couple 201 00:11:30,681 --> 00:11:32,801 Speaker 2: of weeks before, and she said, give me the flight 202 00:11:32,961 --> 00:11:34,841 Speaker 2: details and I'll see if I can get you and 203 00:11:34,881 --> 00:11:35,881 Speaker 2: Johning into the lounge. 204 00:11:35,921 --> 00:11:38,041 Speaker 1: So we arrive at the airport, we walk. 205 00:11:37,921 --> 00:11:40,841 Speaker 2: Into the corners lounge and sitting at the table with 206 00:11:41,321 --> 00:11:45,281 Speaker 2: her partner is longtime friend of mine. Her name is Elkie, 207 00:11:46,561 --> 00:11:49,921 Speaker 2: and we were chatting and Elkie just started talking to 208 00:11:49,961 --> 00:11:52,961 Speaker 2: me about this moment in time that she remembered. 209 00:11:54,161 --> 00:11:58,041 Speaker 3: I was there the morning that mister and missus Wilson 210 00:11:58,401 --> 00:12:01,281 Speaker 3: walked into bryce street of my grandparents' house. 211 00:12:01,601 --> 00:12:04,961 Speaker 1: And we're told by the Salvation Army that they had. 212 00:12:05,241 --> 00:12:12,041 Speaker 6: Found and that she had said she didn't want anything, 213 00:12:12,081 --> 00:12:14,801 Speaker 6: and they had looked back to Jesus Wilson. 214 00:12:14,841 --> 00:12:17,801 Speaker 1: That was the story, and I was sitting in the 215 00:12:17,841 --> 00:12:18,281 Speaker 1: front room. 216 00:12:18,321 --> 00:12:20,041 Speaker 2: It makes me want to vomit a little bit, yeah, 217 00:12:20,281 --> 00:12:21,721 Speaker 2: because you know, they never found her. 218 00:12:21,761 --> 00:12:25,281 Speaker 3: They never found it was said. I listened to the inquest. 219 00:12:25,361 --> 00:12:27,321 Speaker 3: I said, that's a look, that's a lie. 220 00:12:27,521 --> 00:12:29,121 Speaker 1: That never happened. That's a lie. 221 00:12:29,161 --> 00:12:31,121 Speaker 3: Because I was there that morning, I. 222 00:12:31,121 --> 00:12:33,401 Speaker 2: Felt a bit nervous. I felt a bit weird for me. 223 00:12:33,881 --> 00:12:36,681 Speaker 2: This is a big thing. It had taken you and 224 00:12:36,721 --> 00:12:39,441 Speaker 2: I nearly all year and a lot of planning to 225 00:12:39,481 --> 00:12:41,681 Speaker 2: get to that actual point, and I couldn't quite believe 226 00:12:41,761 --> 00:12:43,161 Speaker 2: that we were leaving our families. 227 00:12:43,641 --> 00:12:44,721 Speaker 3: It just under a month. 228 00:12:44,881 --> 00:12:47,001 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was quite a big thing for us to do, 229 00:12:47,201 --> 00:12:49,681 Speaker 2: I think, just to put ourselves in that position, and 230 00:12:50,161 --> 00:12:51,041 Speaker 2: it was a little. 231 00:12:50,841 --> 00:12:57,641 Speaker 1: Mental sid command. 232 00:13:01,921 --> 00:13:04,801 Speaker 5: Just passing to such like coach on the side at 233 00:13:05,121 --> 00:13:05,761 Speaker 5: thirty six. 234 00:13:05,681 --> 00:13:13,561 Speaker 2: Thousand wrong in Tokyo on time. What is our main 235 00:13:13,641 --> 00:13:18,361 Speaker 2: game coming to Nareda. We want to find evidence. 236 00:13:17,961 --> 00:13:21,561 Speaker 3: Any marriage, any any kind of evidence of her in Japan. 237 00:13:21,761 --> 00:13:25,401 Speaker 2: We need to clarify that she definitely came into reapration. Yeah, 238 00:13:25,481 --> 00:13:28,561 Speaker 2: not really everything cross that we'll be able to get 239 00:13:28,561 --> 00:13:33,441 Speaker 2: that information because that is important because that contradicts what 240 00:13:33,641 --> 00:13:39,721 Speaker 2: was the findings at the inquest into Tokyo Passages. 241 00:13:39,841 --> 00:13:40,881 Speaker 1: Group must now take the. 242 00:13:43,321 --> 00:13:46,841 Speaker 2: We've arrived in Japan, and we sort of wanted to 243 00:13:46,881 --> 00:13:51,201 Speaker 2: follow the footsteps of Rick Blum and experience the whole 244 00:13:51,401 --> 00:14:02,321 Speaker 2: bus out to Narita. Yes, I'm staying in the hotel. 245 00:14:02,561 --> 00:14:06,601 Speaker 1: Can I please get an envelope in middle? Do you 246 00:14:06,721 --> 00:14:11,041 Speaker 1: normally have them in the room? I think there is 247 00:14:11,081 --> 00:14:13,961 Speaker 1: an en bit of author Oh you think there is 248 00:14:14,281 --> 00:14:17,041 Speaker 1: upstairs in the room? Is that normal? 249 00:14:17,161 --> 00:14:23,201 Speaker 3: Is it normally. 250 00:14:20,761 --> 00:14:21,401 Speaker 1: Inside the room. 251 00:14:21,481 --> 00:14:23,961 Speaker 2: Oh okay, I just this is My mum sent me 252 00:14:24,041 --> 00:14:31,081 Speaker 2: this back in nineteen ninety seven from you, and she 253 00:14:31,161 --> 00:14:35,401 Speaker 2: wrote to me on your notepaper. But she's actually a 254 00:14:35,441 --> 00:14:40,721 Speaker 2: missing person. So I've come here to retrace and try 255 00:14:40,761 --> 00:14:43,841 Speaker 2: and find out what's happened to her. So that's why 256 00:14:43,841 --> 00:14:46,001 Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about the envelopes, if they 257 00:14:46,001 --> 00:14:47,841 Speaker 2: were in the room, or if she would have had 258 00:14:47,881 --> 00:14:51,481 Speaker 2: to ask you for an envelope at the desk. Let's 259 00:14:51,561 --> 00:14:55,881 Speaker 2: talk about our first day. We woke up to a 260 00:14:56,081 --> 00:15:00,481 Speaker 2: rainy day. There was lots of bamboo surrounding the hotel, 261 00:15:00,801 --> 00:15:03,761 Speaker 2: and I remember looking out the window. We are in 262 00:15:04,241 --> 00:15:07,801 Speaker 2: Hotel Niko Narita, my mama's birthday today. 263 00:15:08,401 --> 00:15:10,841 Speaker 1: I honestly never thought that I would be here. 264 00:15:11,041 --> 00:15:14,281 Speaker 2: That's kind of a spin out for me and Janie 265 00:15:14,281 --> 00:15:17,281 Speaker 2: and I are about to head off. We're gonna go 266 00:15:17,321 --> 00:15:23,161 Speaker 2: downstairs today. We've got the chapel here and we want 267 00:15:23,201 --> 00:15:25,121 Speaker 2: to go and see if we can get records of 268 00:15:25,201 --> 00:15:29,561 Speaker 2: any sort of marriage or any indication that mum was here. 269 00:15:30,641 --> 00:15:35,241 Speaker 2: And then we're heading off into Narita to go into 270 00:15:35,281 --> 00:15:39,801 Speaker 2: the town square. We're meeting my cousin Simon who's taken 271 00:15:40,161 --> 00:15:43,001 Speaker 2: a few days off to come and help us, which 272 00:15:43,081 --> 00:15:46,801 Speaker 2: is super kind of him. That's Degree's son and he 273 00:15:46,841 --> 00:15:50,201 Speaker 2: lives over here and he is married to his Japanese wife, Emiko, 274 00:15:51,161 --> 00:15:54,201 Speaker 2: and they have two boys, and I think we're catching 275 00:15:54,281 --> 00:15:56,601 Speaker 2: up with them as well at some point having dinner. 276 00:15:57,121 --> 00:15:59,081 Speaker 1: And we've got. 277 00:15:58,921 --> 00:16:01,321 Speaker 2: This is what's been spinning me out, is the note 278 00:16:01,401 --> 00:16:06,521 Speaker 2: paper because it's identical. I've just done a comparison to 279 00:16:06,641 --> 00:16:09,441 Speaker 2: mums because I've bought the letter that mum sent me 280 00:16:09,761 --> 00:16:16,961 Speaker 2: and the notepaper is identical, which is just bizarre to 281 00:16:17,001 --> 00:16:18,641 Speaker 2: think after twenty seven years. 282 00:16:18,881 --> 00:16:19,561 Speaker 3: And I want to. 283 00:16:19,521 --> 00:16:23,001 Speaker 1: Prove that my mum actually did come here because that. 284 00:16:22,921 --> 00:16:26,201 Speaker 2: Was not the result from the inquest. 285 00:16:26,681 --> 00:16:29,681 Speaker 1: We're here on a mission to prove that theory wrong. 286 00:16:30,121 --> 00:16:33,001 Speaker 2: So let's hope we go and get some answers. Today, 287 00:16:33,761 --> 00:16:37,401 Speaker 2: on our first official day of the research trip. 288 00:16:38,641 --> 00:16:40,321 Speaker 1: We had a very busy day planned. 289 00:16:40,481 --> 00:16:43,401 Speaker 2: We only were staying two nights at hotel in Nico 290 00:16:43,401 --> 00:16:46,401 Speaker 2: and Nrita before heading into Tokyo, and we had planned 291 00:16:46,681 --> 00:16:49,841 Speaker 2: to meet early with my cousin Simon, so we were 292 00:16:49,841 --> 00:16:52,801 Speaker 2: just sitting there having a coffee. We literally were heading 293 00:16:52,841 --> 00:16:56,001 Speaker 2: over to Narita City Hall, and there we spoke to 294 00:16:56,041 --> 00:16:59,001 Speaker 2: a lovely man who took an interest in helping us. 295 00:16:59,121 --> 00:17:01,881 Speaker 2: He did speak English, and he was there to help 296 00:17:01,961 --> 00:17:05,041 Speaker 2: us understand the rules around getting married in Japan. 297 00:17:05,121 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 7: And so they do a search for records just to 298 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 7: say whether there's a marriage interesting Marian within that day range. 299 00:17:16,521 --> 00:17:19,321 Speaker 7: They need to fill in some special forms and be 300 00:17:19,360 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 7: different for every country, so he has to spend some 301 00:17:21,761 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 7: time to say, Australia, this is what we need, and. 302 00:17:26,721 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: Since I'm in Japan, it's easier. I'm the request. 303 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:33,401 Speaker 7: I think I might need some of these type of documents, right, 304 00:17:33,681 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 7: actually maybe I should get a copy. 305 00:17:35,481 --> 00:17:37,441 Speaker 1: So I would go to him on. 306 00:17:37,321 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 7: One of these days and he would talk to his 307 00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 7: boss where he explain the story, show him the libiot, 308 00:17:41,681 --> 00:17:43,921 Speaker 7: and they might come back and say they need something else, 309 00:17:43,961 --> 00:17:45,681 Speaker 7: something again, and eventually they would fill in the form. 310 00:17:46,001 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 7: He said it would take at least one or two weeks, 311 00:17:48,961 --> 00:17:52,761 Speaker 7: possibly a month for them to process the request. And 312 00:17:52,801 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 7: all they'll do is say yes or no. They're not 313 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 7: going to show us the certificate or the interviews. 314 00:17:58,080 --> 00:17:59,841 Speaker 3: But if we can get a. 315 00:17:59,801 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 7: Yes, if you give you just know yes the birth 316 00:18:03,921 --> 00:18:07,281 Speaker 7: place and that's pretty into partment and interesting information. 317 00:18:08,241 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 3: I mean, there was a lot of theories around the 318 00:18:10,481 --> 00:18:14,241 Speaker 3: whole marriage and the whole wedding thing within Japan where 319 00:18:14,241 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 3: people would have gone. There was a whole hipp of 320 00:18:16,241 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 3: research that was done by researchers about this, but we 321 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 3: really needed to find actual proof of this and records 322 00:18:23,681 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 3: and things like that. So that's why we went to 323 00:18:26,201 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 3: the city hall because the whole idea of it was 324 00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:31,721 Speaker 3: if they were only there for a very short time, 325 00:18:31,921 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 3: and if they, I say, Marion and Rick Bloom were 326 00:18:34,961 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 3: staying at Hotel Nico Nerita, then that would be the 327 00:18:38,441 --> 00:18:42,561 Speaker 3: obvious place where any records coming from the chapel within 328 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,001 Speaker 3: the grounds of Hotel Nico Nearita would have landed. So 329 00:18:46,041 --> 00:18:49,321 Speaker 3: we basically we were going there to see whether there 330 00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 3: was any records there. 331 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:52,481 Speaker 2: So we were basically. 332 00:18:53,561 --> 00:18:57,281 Speaker 7: Were most impossible legal marriage and toolhi. 333 00:18:56,681 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: Is and we assumed that we wanted it. 334 00:18:59,721 --> 00:19:02,041 Speaker 2: I wanted to hear it from somebody who works here, 335 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 2: and I thought, I just said to Journing because we 336 00:19:04,201 --> 00:19:06,201 Speaker 2: saw the tops up, whether it was worth coming here. 337 00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:09,281 Speaker 2: We both are the same opinion that you'd have to 338 00:19:09,321 --> 00:19:12,481 Speaker 2: be legally bound to do it, and he wouldn't have done. 339 00:19:12,241 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 3: That, and you have to get a certificate of single. 340 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:16,721 Speaker 3: There's a whole lot of time. 341 00:19:16,721 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 1: And we went through this morning. It's all different. 342 00:19:20,321 --> 00:19:22,241 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you have to have a passport in your 343 00:19:22,321 --> 00:19:23,521 Speaker 2: name from your country. 344 00:19:24,241 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 3: And also it doesn't make sense to me because I know, 345 00:19:26,801 --> 00:19:30,441 Speaker 3: why would you link link It's no benefit to him. 346 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,281 Speaker 3: All it needs is to look down the island and 347 00:19:32,321 --> 00:19:35,121 Speaker 3: chapel that's right. I mean she was happy to marry Rayne, 348 00:19:36,321 --> 00:19:37,521 Speaker 3: you know, like to be fair. 349 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,721 Speaker 2: And so after that, you remembering it was mum's birthday. 350 00:19:41,921 --> 00:19:47,201 Speaker 2: You'd actually found a Buddhist temple, this beautiful Buddhist temple. 351 00:19:47,721 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 2: And if you haven't been to a temple before, you 352 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 2: actually have to cleanse or you're supposed to cleanse yourself 353 00:19:53,321 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 2: with the water before you actually enter. So people wash 354 00:19:56,241 --> 00:19:58,081 Speaker 2: it over their face and wash it all over their 355 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 2: hands before entering. And I remember there was just a 356 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 2: haze of smoke. 357 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 1: Do you remember that? 358 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 2: And it was all like I kept going, it's everywhere, 359 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,801 Speaker 2: like it was all over us for the remainder of this, Yeah. 360 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,481 Speaker 3: Because they burn it burns twenty four to seven. Yeah, 361 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,681 Speaker 3: while we went there was for the And I apologize 362 00:20:16,681 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 3: if any of these words are said incorrectly. The Agoma prayer, 363 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 3: which is a very special prayer and it's a ritual 364 00:20:25,961 --> 00:20:30,241 Speaker 3: brought back from China, and it involves burning of special 365 00:20:30,321 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 3: firewood and making a big flame for the fulfillment of 366 00:20:35,801 --> 00:20:39,801 Speaker 3: the wishes of the audience and the worshipers or whoever comes. 367 00:20:41,001 --> 00:20:46,201 Speaker 3: So it's quite stunning. It's been around for one thousand 368 00:20:46,241 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 3: and eighty years. I just really felt that if we 369 00:20:49,441 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 3: did have the time, it would be quite nice for 370 00:20:52,281 --> 00:20:56,281 Speaker 3: you to go and just do that and give something 371 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,801 Speaker 3: of your mum for that blessing. So that's what you did, 372 00:20:59,801 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 3: and what did you bring? 373 00:21:02,001 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 2: Well, we have to purchase like the little piece of 374 00:21:04,721 --> 00:21:06,961 Speaker 2: wood and then you write on it. 375 00:21:07,561 --> 00:21:11,761 Speaker 1: I just wrote the missing matter Marion matters, and I 376 00:21:11,801 --> 00:21:12,441 Speaker 1: asked them. 377 00:21:12,241 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 2: To help me find my mum. 378 00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 4: So. 379 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 3: Happy the same mum. 380 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:41,481 Speaker 1: Would be seventeen on them today, eternal, eternally. 381 00:21:41,521 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 3: I loved. 382 00:21:43,681 --> 00:21:47,201 Speaker 1: Very sad that I haven't boundary yet. 383 00:21:49,201 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 3: A Buddhist temple. 384 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,641 Speaker 1: And just written a wish for you. 385 00:21:58,001 --> 00:21:58,841 Speaker 3: Did I find you? 386 00:22:00,001 --> 00:22:01,961 Speaker 2: I'm gonna go in and sit down now for about 387 00:22:01,961 --> 00:22:06,161 Speaker 2: twenty five minutes with there's smoking ceremony, and just take 388 00:22:06,241 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 2: twenty five minutes to think of you and think of 389 00:22:09,961 --> 00:22:23,281 Speaker 2: the journey that we're on finding and so then you 390 00:22:23,321 --> 00:22:26,321 Speaker 2: pop that in amongst all the other wishes, and then 391 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:29,360 Speaker 2: they actually burned the wishes in their smoking ceremony. 392 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:30,721 Speaker 1: So I lit a. 393 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 2: Candle for Mum, being that it was her birthday, and 394 00:22:33,761 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 2: then we took our shoes off and we went and 395 00:22:35,281 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 2: sat in on the Buddha blessing, which was quite emotional 396 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 2: for me, to be honest, I did have tears in 397 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,321 Speaker 2: my eyes because it was just like the drums and 398 00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:48,521 Speaker 2: everything were just pounding through my chest as I'm sitting 399 00:22:48,681 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 2: right next to it. 400 00:22:49,441 --> 00:22:53,161 Speaker 3: You see that symbol next to the drum, and they're. 401 00:22:52,961 --> 00:22:56,321 Speaker 2: All sitting there humming, and I could just it was 402 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,881 Speaker 2: just quite a powerful thing to do. So I'm really 403 00:22:58,961 --> 00:23:01,401 Speaker 2: grateful that you took time to think about that, because 404 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,321 Speaker 2: I was too busy doing all the other stuff to 405 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 2: think about doing just stopping for a minute and having 406 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,521 Speaker 2: a breather, because you know, it was an important day. 407 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 2: It was Mum's birthday, and you know, I feel like 408 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 2: that was a really beautiful thing to be able. 409 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:15,641 Speaker 1: To do for her. 410 00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:21,801 Speaker 2: So once we left the temple, we all went back 411 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 2: to Hotel Nicnareta and I just sat down and we 412 00:23:25,721 --> 00:23:28,401 Speaker 2: decided we'd have a coffee and I bought a. 413 00:23:28,321 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: Little cake for mum. 414 00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:34,281 Speaker 2: And after we had the cake and just had a 415 00:23:34,321 --> 00:23:39,481 Speaker 2: moment to think about her again, we approached concierge at Hotelnicna, 416 00:23:39,521 --> 00:23:43,281 Speaker 2: Rita and asked them if they could help us talk 417 00:23:43,321 --> 00:23:46,201 Speaker 2: to somebody at the chapel. And we walked into this 418 00:23:46,321 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 2: room and they sat us down with all wedding videos 419 00:23:49,681 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 2: playing around us, and wedding dresses on display and suits 420 00:23:54,201 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 2: on display, and there was a hair dressing salon and 421 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, wow, so people literally come here, they 422 00:23:59,561 --> 00:24:01,761 Speaker 2: pick a dress, they whack it on with their suit, 423 00:24:02,321 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 2: they walk downstairs and go and get married. 424 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,201 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is actually a thing. 425 00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 2: Yes, But they came down and usd us to sit 426 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:11,681 Speaker 2: and wait, and then someone from the chapel came down 427 00:24:11,721 --> 00:24:14,561 Speaker 2: and got us, and he took us down into the. 428 00:24:14,521 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 1: Actual chapel and we're standing in there. 429 00:24:17,441 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 2: They had told us that there used to be an 430 00:24:19,281 --> 00:24:22,681 Speaker 2: older chapel and we were standing in the very new chapel. 431 00:24:22,801 --> 00:24:25,481 Speaker 2: So this chapel was not there in nineteen ninety seven. 432 00:24:25,561 --> 00:24:28,921 Speaker 2: There was a different chapel that was no longer in action. 433 00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: Or being used. 434 00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 2: He was very clear to us that you can't just 435 00:24:32,921 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 2: walk in and get married in air so two foreign 436 00:24:36,441 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 2: people walking in wouldn't be allowed to just walk in 437 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 2: and get married. 438 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,161 Speaker 1: They didn't have records. 439 00:24:42,201 --> 00:24:45,001 Speaker 2: We asked him if they had archives, and they did 440 00:24:45,041 --> 00:24:47,401 Speaker 2: go off in check and triple check, but they came 441 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 2: back and said, unfortunately, they don't have records going back 442 00:24:49,721 --> 00:24:53,801 Speaker 2: to nineteen ninety seven. Unfortunately we didn't find anything with 443 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,761 Speaker 2: relation to whether or not mum was married in Japan 444 00:24:59,001 --> 00:24:59,761 Speaker 2: to Rick Blum. 445 00:25:01,681 --> 00:25:04,481 Speaker 1: So our next stop was Tokyo. 446 00:25:05,241 --> 00:25:08,201 Speaker 2: Up the next morning, we're heading back to the airport 447 00:25:08,321 --> 00:25:12,401 Speaker 2: and downstairs at the airgeport in Narita, you actually walked 448 00:25:12,441 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 2: down to catch the train. 449 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 3: Well, primarily we were going into Tokyo obviously to find 450 00:25:25,921 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 3: out about the immigration and whether try and at least 451 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 3: see if we could apply for those records based on 452 00:25:33,481 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 3: the documentation that you had post the death certificate and 453 00:25:37,721 --> 00:25:39,721 Speaker 3: all the probate sort of processes. 454 00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 2: So this is you reaching out to them before we'd 455 00:25:43,481 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 2: left Australia to find out what information was available and 456 00:25:47,721 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 2: whether we could access or not. 457 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 3: That's correct, Yeah, So I had a number of phone 458 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,041 Speaker 3: calls with them that is basically what we were aiming 459 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,961 Speaker 3: to do on that day was to try to get 460 00:25:57,001 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 3: the movement records. Simon came with us, and Simon's son 461 00:26:00,481 --> 00:26:01,121 Speaker 3: as well. 462 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,361 Speaker 1: If he speaks fluent, he was. 463 00:26:04,281 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 3: To do, yeah, to do the interpreting. 464 00:26:07,201 --> 00:26:09,721 Speaker 1: But and so we arrive. 465 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 2: And then we were called up to a little booth 466 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:24,321 Speaker 2: and the gentleman behind the counter he didn't really understand. 467 00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:27,681 Speaker 2: He couldn't speak English. I can't speak Japanese. 468 00:26:28,001 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 8: So if this is true, and if if there's a 469 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 8: record of it, but they say they keep records, so 470 00:26:33,961 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 8: if it exists, it exists. 471 00:26:35,681 --> 00:26:43,561 Speaker 6: But what's the earliest year that they do have records 472 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:56,281 Speaker 6: for if you could ask? 473 00:27:00,321 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 2: And there was a form that he gave me that 474 00:27:02,961 --> 00:27:05,321 Speaker 2: he started asking me to fill in, but we soon 475 00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:08,801 Speaker 2: realized that the form wasn't really relevant because he was 476 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 2: asking me to fill it in from my perspective, not 477 00:27:11,241 --> 00:27:16,761 Speaker 2: from mum's perspective. And we literally just wanted him to say. 478 00:27:15,721 --> 00:27:18,601 Speaker 1: Whether or not she landed in Japan or not, and 479 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:19,721 Speaker 1: he would not tell. 480 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 2: Us that she wrote to me on a notepaper from Japan, 481 00:27:25,681 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 2: so I don't have any proof that she came here. 482 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: And I'm trying to get proof that she arrived in Japan. 483 00:27:32,201 --> 00:27:34,001 Speaker 2: I don't even need to see the documents really, I 484 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 2: just like if he could tell me that she definitely 485 00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:38,521 Speaker 2: came to Japan, I'd be happy with that, and the 486 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,241 Speaker 2: date that she left. It's just that she because she's 487 00:27:41,281 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 2: a missing person, so it's important to get clarification to 488 00:27:45,321 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 2: know that if she was in Japan, she definitely stayed here, because. 489 00:27:48,921 --> 00:27:50,001 Speaker 3: That's what she's written to me. 490 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,601 Speaker 1: So that's the whole purpose. There's not really a lot 491 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: in it. 492 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 2: I don't see the value in me paying lawyer another 493 00:27:57,721 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 2: lawyer to. 494 00:27:59,041 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: Tell me whether she was here or not. If he 495 00:28:01,001 --> 00:28:03,401 Speaker 1: could just say that to me, that would be very helpful. 496 00:28:05,681 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: I don't know what to do. I don't can you 497 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:08,761 Speaker 1: just say to him? 498 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,401 Speaker 2: So what's my options is to find a lawyer, pay 499 00:28:11,441 --> 00:28:14,321 Speaker 2: for a lawyer, and then get the lawyer to send these. 500 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,001 Speaker 3: Forms to these people. 501 00:28:16,561 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: Has he got a card or something like gift to him? 502 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:30,481 Speaker 8: Like you, it's an option, So it's not you, But 503 00:28:30,921 --> 00:28:34,041 Speaker 8: you can go through here, which is the place which 504 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,561 Speaker 8: is basically here, so there's no need because it will 505 00:28:38,601 --> 00:28:40,881 Speaker 8: be from the lawyer. So okay, it's a different route. 506 00:28:40,961 --> 00:28:46,041 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're a thank you a couple of thousands. 507 00:28:47,121 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 2: And I remember being quite grinded by this because he 508 00:28:50,561 --> 00:28:53,481 Speaker 2: kept laughing, and I'm like, this is actually quite stressful 509 00:28:53,481 --> 00:28:53,681 Speaker 2: for me. 510 00:28:54,041 --> 00:28:55,001 Speaker 1: From my perspective. 511 00:28:55,081 --> 00:28:58,801 Speaker 2: I've just gone through absolute helen back to get this 512 00:28:59,241 --> 00:29:02,121 Speaker 2: death certificate in both names so that we can access 513 00:29:02,201 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 2: her in coming and out going passenger information all over 514 00:29:06,561 --> 00:29:09,041 Speaker 2: the world, was my thought, because I had this piece 515 00:29:09,041 --> 00:29:12,041 Speaker 2: of paper from the Supreme Court in Australia which deemed 516 00:29:12,081 --> 00:29:14,561 Speaker 2: me to be able to do that, and he said 517 00:29:14,601 --> 00:29:18,161 Speaker 2: that document does not apply here in Japan. Australian documents 518 00:29:18,201 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 2: don't apply here. Really, sorry. The best bet is to 519 00:29:22,521 --> 00:29:26,641 Speaker 2: for you to engage with a Japanese lawyer and then 520 00:29:26,961 --> 00:29:29,761 Speaker 2: they will have to access that information to get the file. 521 00:29:30,521 --> 00:29:32,801 Speaker 2: And I was just beside myself. I'm like, okay, so 522 00:29:32,841 --> 00:29:35,521 Speaker 2: I need to jump through more hoops just to find 523 00:29:35,561 --> 00:29:38,041 Speaker 2: out whether my mum landed here in nineteen ninety seven 524 00:29:38,121 --> 00:29:39,881 Speaker 2: or not. We had a really tight window, as I 525 00:29:40,041 --> 00:29:42,521 Speaker 2: talked about before, We had that eight days and it 526 00:29:42,601 --> 00:29:44,601 Speaker 2: was like, why is this so difficult? 527 00:29:44,601 --> 00:29:47,001 Speaker 1: Why can't you? And even Simon kept jumping in. 528 00:29:47,041 --> 00:29:50,761 Speaker 2: He's like, she's a missing person, she's deceased, so she doesn't. 529 00:29:51,001 --> 00:29:52,921 Speaker 2: She's not alive anymore. And he kept saying, oh, you 530 00:29:52,961 --> 00:29:55,441 Speaker 2: need to get her to sign a document to allow 531 00:29:55,481 --> 00:29:58,841 Speaker 2: you to do it. I'm like, you're not understanding. She's 532 00:29:58,881 --> 00:30:01,401 Speaker 2: not alive for me to ask her to sign a document. 533 00:30:02,241 --> 00:30:03,321 Speaker 1: If you post it to them in the. 534 00:30:03,321 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 3: Mail, there'll be some deercut there. 535 00:30:04,441 --> 00:30:06,961 Speaker 7: They're opening the see this form and it's like they'll 536 00:30:06,961 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 7: take a check book and you just want them to 537 00:30:09,441 --> 00:30:11,881 Speaker 7: throw it over there to the next instead, which would 538 00:30:11,921 --> 00:30:13,921 Speaker 7: be easier for them if they can just kind of give. 539 00:30:13,801 --> 00:30:17,241 Speaker 3: It a glance without all the other added complications. 540 00:30:16,921 --> 00:30:20,801 Speaker 7: Simple just like them, and maybe don't you could not 541 00:30:20,881 --> 00:30:23,881 Speaker 7: do any idea at all, right, that's another option. Maybe 542 00:30:23,961 --> 00:30:29,121 Speaker 7: I could do one without it's even happens, and they. 543 00:30:28,881 --> 00:30:31,121 Speaker 1: Might just look at it and toss it. 544 00:30:31,081 --> 00:30:33,841 Speaker 3: With him and then you know land. 545 00:30:35,121 --> 00:30:38,321 Speaker 7: You could also try Histralian lawyer letter saying you know 546 00:30:38,481 --> 00:30:45,161 Speaker 7: this from the head, you know please, something like that 547 00:30:45,201 --> 00:30:48,361 Speaker 7: to make it kind of scary, and then it's actually 548 00:30:48,441 --> 00:30:50,321 Speaker 7: makes it a little less likely because I'll pass it 549 00:30:50,321 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 7: on to the day become bureaucratic. But that's why the 550 00:30:53,601 --> 00:30:58,521 Speaker 7: simple one, just going through the cracks, it's probably the 551 00:30:58,561 --> 00:30:59,241 Speaker 7: best chance. 552 00:31:01,081 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 3: So One of the other little side projects that we 553 00:31:04,041 --> 00:31:06,921 Speaker 3: did while we were there was just looking into any 554 00:31:06,961 --> 00:31:10,681 Speaker 3: coin shops or antique places or anything like that where 555 00:31:11,121 --> 00:31:13,561 Speaker 3: we were hoping that there could have been someone there 556 00:31:13,641 --> 00:31:16,121 Speaker 3: that over the years that may have had some kind 557 00:31:16,121 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 3: of interaction with Rick Bloom. I don't know if you 558 00:31:19,241 --> 00:31:24,521 Speaker 3: remember that he actually spoke about giving some Japanese coins 559 00:31:24,561 --> 00:31:28,561 Speaker 3: to one of the managers at the Amsterdam airport with 560 00:31:28,641 --> 00:31:32,641 Speaker 3: Japan Air. So in regards to the coin dealing, I 561 00:31:32,761 --> 00:31:35,921 Speaker 3: just want to take everybody back a moment right to 562 00:31:36,001 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 3: the start of the coin dealing stuff, because you know, 563 00:31:40,041 --> 00:31:43,161 Speaker 3: there was many years there where obviously you didn't know 564 00:31:43,201 --> 00:31:46,521 Speaker 3: where you MAMO was, and then when Rick Bloom came along, 565 00:31:46,641 --> 00:31:49,641 Speaker 3: or Frederick de HEEVERI it was quite early in the 566 00:31:49,721 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 3: peace when we found out that he actually had a 567 00:31:54,241 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 3: company called Balina Coin invest So we go. 568 00:31:57,521 --> 00:31:59,601 Speaker 2: Back in a timeline just to help people who haven't 569 00:31:59,641 --> 00:32:03,481 Speaker 2: been listening to the Lady Vanishers. You met me in 570 00:32:03,601 --> 00:32:06,561 Speaker 2: May of twenty nineteen, so we launched the podcast the 571 00:32:06,561 --> 00:32:10,601 Speaker 2: first of April twenty nineteen. You find the ad in 572 00:32:10,681 --> 00:32:13,881 Speaker 2: the paper with the name RAMACKURL linked to a Lennox 573 00:32:13,961 --> 00:32:16,041 Speaker 2: Head post office box and phone number. 574 00:32:16,161 --> 00:32:18,081 Speaker 1: That was in the May of twenty nineteen. 575 00:32:18,601 --> 00:32:21,201 Speaker 2: Then I get an email from a gentleman who wants 576 00:32:21,241 --> 00:32:23,761 Speaker 2: to remain anonymous, who says, I've gone down to the 577 00:32:23,761 --> 00:32:27,161 Speaker 2: local library at Balana. I've hand scanned thousands of searchers 578 00:32:27,161 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 2: for phone numbers, and I found a link to the 579 00:32:29,001 --> 00:32:32,241 Speaker 2: phone number which linked that phone number to a company 580 00:32:32,241 --> 00:32:35,801 Speaker 2: called Baalano Cooin Invest. You and I then did a 581 00:32:35,801 --> 00:32:39,121 Speaker 2: massive search with him. He actually did the assex search 582 00:32:39,201 --> 00:32:39,561 Speaker 2: on that. 583 00:32:39,721 --> 00:32:41,681 Speaker 1: Name, didn't he with it? Yeah, yeah, that's right. 584 00:32:41,921 --> 00:32:45,041 Speaker 2: He did that and he found the name of the 585 00:32:45,081 --> 00:32:47,801 Speaker 2: owner of Balin cooin invest was Frederick de Heavidery and 586 00:32:47,881 --> 00:32:48,841 Speaker 2: Diane to Heavidairy. 587 00:32:49,081 --> 00:32:52,201 Speaker 3: Yes. So I rang around the local coin dealers there 588 00:32:52,721 --> 00:32:56,281 Speaker 3: and I happened to speak to a very old, very 589 00:32:56,281 --> 00:32:59,961 Speaker 3: well known dealer called Jim and I actually called him 590 00:33:00,201 --> 00:33:04,361 Speaker 3: and this is what he said. He said, oh yes, Rick. 591 00:33:05,801 --> 00:33:10,481 Speaker 3: Now at this stage I wasn't expecting him to actually 592 00:33:10,601 --> 00:33:14,321 Speaker 3: know anything. I was expecting him to know Barry Cooper, 593 00:33:14,641 --> 00:33:17,161 Speaker 3: That's who I was aiming to try and connect with. 594 00:33:18,121 --> 00:33:20,041 Speaker 3: So when he I don't know if you remember, but 595 00:33:20,161 --> 00:33:24,281 Speaker 3: when he said, oh, yes, Rick, the Belgian, Yes he's 596 00:33:24,321 --> 00:33:27,161 Speaker 3: living in the foothills of Byron Bay. He's in his 597 00:33:27,241 --> 00:33:30,841 Speaker 3: early eighties now. He's looking to put some coins in 598 00:33:30,881 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 3: for an auction in the next month or so. He 599 00:33:33,321 --> 00:33:36,441 Speaker 3: goes by a few names, so you never know who 600 00:33:36,441 --> 00:33:39,241 Speaker 3: you're talking to on the phone. He was just laughing 601 00:33:39,321 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 3: the whole time, like you thought it was hilarious that 602 00:33:42,281 --> 00:33:46,161 Speaker 3: I was asking about this person. Like people are probably wondering, well, 603 00:33:46,881 --> 00:33:49,081 Speaker 3: so what Like he was a coin dealer, you know, 604 00:33:49,121 --> 00:33:51,161 Speaker 3: a big deal. What's this got to do with Marian 605 00:33:52,001 --> 00:33:53,881 Speaker 3: And at the end of the day, as one of 606 00:33:53,881 --> 00:33:57,801 Speaker 3: the dealers said to me, a coin shrinks fifty thousand 607 00:33:57,841 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 3: euro into a nondescript piece of metal in the zipper 608 00:34:02,001 --> 00:34:06,361 Speaker 3: of your wallet. A perfect way to affectively lawned ill 609 00:34:06,401 --> 00:34:10,801 Speaker 3: gotten gains. I'm not saying that mister Bloom did this, 610 00:34:11,081 --> 00:34:13,441 Speaker 3: and that was the reason why he was a coin dealer. 611 00:34:13,481 --> 00:34:15,721 Speaker 3: From what I understand, he was very knowledgeable. 612 00:34:16,601 --> 00:34:19,641 Speaker 2: You're talking about buying a coin that is worth fifty 613 00:34:19,681 --> 00:34:20,681 Speaker 2: thousand euros. 614 00:34:20,801 --> 00:34:22,201 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's through gold. 615 00:34:21,921 --> 00:34:24,841 Speaker 2: Coin that sits in your wallet, and when you're coming 616 00:34:24,881 --> 00:34:28,161 Speaker 2: through customs, they're not looking at your coins in your wallet. 617 00:34:28,521 --> 00:34:31,481 Speaker 2: And the little amans terms is what that's saying. 618 00:34:31,321 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so an ancient coin. I mean it could 619 00:34:33,561 --> 00:34:36,481 Speaker 3: just be a beaten up old coin that you wouldn't 620 00:34:36,521 --> 00:34:39,481 Speaker 3: even look twice at within a mix in your hand. 621 00:34:39,721 --> 00:34:43,081 Speaker 3: That was how it's explained to me. So it's effectively 622 00:34:43,081 --> 00:34:46,761 Speaker 3: a very good way to move money from country to 623 00:34:46,801 --> 00:34:50,561 Speaker 3: country or continent to continent, because as we've seen, within 624 00:34:50,601 --> 00:34:53,801 Speaker 3: the passenger cards, it's a maximum ten thousand you are 625 00:34:53,921 --> 00:34:57,641 Speaker 3: Australian that you can bring in him. So therefore I 626 00:34:57,801 --> 00:35:01,601 Speaker 3: just thought that we'd see if there was someone exists 627 00:35:01,641 --> 00:35:04,361 Speaker 3: in Tokyo, especially that may have known him, that we 628 00:35:04,401 --> 00:35:07,121 Speaker 3: should really go along. So that was what we did. 629 00:35:07,681 --> 00:35:11,161 Speaker 3: I want to ask you a question, do you know 630 00:35:12,561 --> 00:35:19,881 Speaker 3: I don't know Frederic. They had a very or his 631 00:35:20,041 --> 00:35:31,281 Speaker 3: name was Willie Wooters. No coin dela, yes, okay, never, 632 00:35:31,441 --> 00:35:32,761 Speaker 3: he's never traded with. 633 00:35:32,801 --> 00:35:36,841 Speaker 7: You, not traded, No, No, okay. 634 00:35:38,481 --> 00:35:46,841 Speaker 3: Every day for people come to my shop, I can't remember. 635 00:35:47,921 --> 00:35:55,601 Speaker 1: Everybody halfa I can, okay, many men come every day, of. 636 00:35:55,601 --> 00:36:00,001 Speaker 3: Course, yes, no, I understand. So we ended our trip 637 00:36:00,041 --> 00:36:05,881 Speaker 3: in Japan going to the Meiji jing Ju Temple in Shabu. Yeah, 638 00:36:06,001 --> 00:36:07,601 Speaker 3: one of the things that we did want to do 639 00:36:08,001 --> 00:36:12,561 Speaker 3: was to have Sally write a message on a plaque 640 00:36:13,081 --> 00:36:15,401 Speaker 3: and hang it on the wall there of the temples. 641 00:36:15,521 --> 00:36:18,281 Speaker 3: So that was what we did on that final day. 642 00:36:19,081 --> 00:36:23,401 Speaker 3: She actually wrote the Missing Matter Marion Matters. 643 00:36:23,081 --> 00:36:23,881 Speaker 1: And I had it in me. 644 00:36:24,001 --> 00:36:26,601 Speaker 2: I said to you, let's pull up how to write 645 00:36:26,641 --> 00:36:30,641 Speaker 2: it in Japanese. Some people actually who were Japanese could 646 00:36:30,641 --> 00:36:33,681 Speaker 2: read it as well. So I'm there with my black 647 00:36:33,761 --> 00:36:35,961 Speaker 2: pen writing it in Japanese. 648 00:36:36,001 --> 00:36:36,681 Speaker 1: We hung it up. 649 00:36:36,641 --> 00:36:39,801 Speaker 2: There and among the thousands, and just the hope that 650 00:36:39,881 --> 00:36:42,601 Speaker 2: one person might read it and think what is that 651 00:36:42,681 --> 00:36:44,921 Speaker 2: about and just take a moment. And I guess at 652 00:36:44,921 --> 00:36:47,161 Speaker 2: the end of the day, this whole podcast and the 653 00:36:47,161 --> 00:36:50,281 Speaker 2: whole talking about all of this, it just comes back 654 00:36:50,321 --> 00:36:53,881 Speaker 2: to the fact that missing persons do matter, and that 655 00:36:53,961 --> 00:36:57,721 Speaker 2: the people who are missing shouldn't be forgotten. So hence 656 00:36:57,721 --> 00:37:01,521 Speaker 2: why this storyline is about my mum, but it stems 657 00:37:01,561 --> 00:37:04,401 Speaker 2: back from all missing persons and you know we really 658 00:37:04,601 --> 00:37:07,721 Speaker 2: should remember them and that they do matter. So we 659 00:37:07,881 --> 00:37:11,081 Speaker 2: left there with hundreds and thousands of wishes and prayers. 660 00:37:11,521 --> 00:37:14,281 Speaker 3: We did and on our way to London to London 661 00:37:17,601 --> 00:37:21,361 Speaker 3: in the next episode of The Missing Matter, or. 662 00:37:21,361 --> 00:37:24,721 Speaker 2: We went to London because we had a few things 663 00:37:24,801 --> 00:37:26,921 Speaker 2: we needed to do. We needed to go to the library, 664 00:37:27,161 --> 00:37:29,921 Speaker 2: and we also needed to go and visit a massive 665 00:37:30,001 --> 00:37:35,121 Speaker 2: coin dealer in the UK that we have some information 666 00:37:35,281 --> 00:37:39,721 Speaker 2: that really potentially connects Mum and Rick Blum at the 667 00:37:39,761 --> 00:37:43,121 Speaker 2: same time in London, and of course