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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective see aside of life the average persons never exposed

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Speaker 1: to I spent thirty four years as a cop. For

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Speaker 1: twenty five of those years I was catching killers. That's

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Speaker 1: what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective.

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Speaker 1: I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking

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Speaker 1: the public into the world in which I operated. The

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Speaker 1: guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from

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Speaker 1: all sides of the law. The interviews are raw and honest,

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Speaker 1: just like the people I talked to. Some of the

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Speaker 1: content and language might be confronting. That's because no one

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Speaker 1: who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join

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Speaker 1: me now as I take you into this world. This

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Speaker 1: is an important follow up bonus episode to I Catch Killers.

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Speaker 1: Last September, I spoke to Kathleen Kirby, whose daughter Audrey Griffin,

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Speaker 1: was brutally murdered on the central coast of New South Wales.

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Speaker 1: It was one of the saddest conversations I've had on

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Speaker 1: my Catch Killers. Kathleen spoke about the devastation of losing

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Speaker 1: her daughter in a random act of violence that destroyed lives.

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Speaker 1: The murderer, fifty three year old Adrian Torrance, was a violent,

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Speaker 1: despicable man who had a history of violence against women,

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Speaker 1: and when court for Audrey's murder, took his own life

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Speaker 1: in prison. Kathleen was not only dealing with the loss

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Speaker 1: of her daughter, but trying to get answers as to

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Speaker 1: why Audrey's death was initially written off as misadventure and

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Speaker 1: why Tyrants was not in custody at the time of

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Speaker 1: the murder. So I thought we would check in with

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Speaker 1: Kathleen and see if any of those questions have been answered. Kathleen,

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Speaker 1: thanks for coming back on to the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Thank you Gary, Thank you for having me once again.

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Speaker 2: It's been a big year.

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Speaker 1: We've been in touch a lot, and I knowed the

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Speaker 1: pain that you're going And it's been twelve months since

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Speaker 1: Audrey was murdered than the how has your life changed

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Speaker 1: from that time?

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Speaker 2: Oh, Look, to be honest, I'm not feeling anything. I'm numb.

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Speaker 2: I'm just you know, I'm just completely numb. I you know,

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Speaker 2: people are saying to me every day how strong I've been,

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Speaker 2: and you know, for doing what I'm doing. But I

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Speaker 2: just feel, to be honest, that for me, I can't

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Speaker 2: allow myself to grieve as yet in a way that

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Speaker 2: I probably need to, because what I need to do

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Speaker 2: first is make sure that my daughter has justice for

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Speaker 2: what happened to her. And so for me, I don't

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Speaker 2: want to fall to pieces. I want to keep strong

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Speaker 2: and I want to keep fighting this to make this

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Speaker 2: a better and safer place as well, you know, for

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Speaker 2: this not to happen again. In regards to just getting

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Speaker 2: through the year, Yes, there's been a lot of roller coasters.

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Speaker 2: The family. It's pulled the family, you know, her friends,

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Speaker 2: you know, a lot of them have had to you know,

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Speaker 2: have pulled out of UNI and then you know, kind

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Speaker 2: of trying to find their ways. It's just it really

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Speaker 2: really has affected so many people on so many levels.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I don't think people understand the ripple effect

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Speaker 1: when one life is taken, the amount of people that

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Speaker 1: it affects.

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Speaker 2: And what support is not out there for them as well,

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Speaker 2: you know, like under these circumstances, there should have been

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Speaker 2: a lot more support. You know. Once again, you know,

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Speaker 2: we seem to always want to help the ones that

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Speaker 2: are not kind of out there trying to better their life,

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Speaker 2: and then you've got all these young girls that are

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Speaker 2: at UNI and you know, doing sports, and you know,

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Speaker 2: and I just feel that there was no support whatsoever

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Speaker 2: for them as well, you know, and their parents are

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Speaker 2: paying you know, big dollars for them to have counseling,

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Speaker 2: and you know, myself, even myself, you know, there's there's

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Speaker 2: victim support, but that's nine to five Monday to Friday.

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Speaker 2: How can I you know.

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Speaker 1: We're talking talking about that a month or so ago,

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Speaker 1: weren't we. Yeah, sometimes the lowest point can be at nighttime,

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Speaker 1: after business hours and no one to no.

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Speaker 2: One to call because during the day, you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: I've got Audrey's dog, and you know, I try and

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Speaker 2: get him down to the water. He's the one that

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Speaker 2: pretty much keeps me getting me out of bed at

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Speaker 2: the moment. You know, I have a lot of a

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Speaker 2: lot of days now where I do spend a few

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Speaker 2: days in bed, you know, like I've just kind of

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Speaker 2: got my own place now Intarigo where I'm landing for

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Speaker 2: a little while so that I can try and you know,

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Speaker 2: just get on top of all this that, you know,

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Speaker 2: waiting for the coroner's report to come back and finding

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Speaker 2: out what really did happen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, that's been the frustration.

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Speaker 1: And I think we did the podcast September and it's

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Speaker 1: virtually twelve months to the day that Audrey was murdered.

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Speaker 1: And the thing that I came away because we had

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Speaker 1: a lot of conversations before the podcast and after the podcast,

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Speaker 1: and you had a lot of questions that you want

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Speaker 1: wanted answers too, and I think at the end of

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Speaker 1: the podcast and we'll discuss the things and I want

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Speaker 1: to find out whether you have got answers to them.

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Speaker 1: But I made a commitment to you that i'd at

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Speaker 1: least contact the contact the police and see if I

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Speaker 1: could find the answers to that. And we got back

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Speaker 1: at Santa fairly detailed requests to the police.

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Speaker 3: From the media.

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Speaker 1: On the questions that you had, the questions that you

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Speaker 1: wanted answer, and the response that we got back from

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Speaker 1: the police was fairly brief that as this case will

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Speaker 1: be subject to a coronial inquest, New South Wales Police

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Speaker 1: will not provide further comment. I can see the expression

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Speaker 1: on your face and frustration, anger, sadness, the whole range

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Speaker 1: of emotions the inquest. Do you know when the inquest

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Speaker 1: is going to be up and running?

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Speaker 2: No, no, not at this stage, I have been informed

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Speaker 2: that I did pop my head in because when we

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Speaker 2: did the walk for Audrey from Gosford to are in

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Speaker 2: a Creek, which two hundred people showed up all in

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Speaker 2: white once again to support us, I did pop my

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Speaker 2: head in and had a bit of a chat and

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Speaker 2: just said, look where all we're at, just to let

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Speaker 2: them know that we are doing the walk. This is

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Speaker 2: a peaceful walk.

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Speaker 3: Listens to the police station, your.

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Speaker 2: Pop cared, and just to say, look, we are doing

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Speaker 2: a walk. It's not aggressive, it's not violent, it's light

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Speaker 2: and love for Audrey. And I did ask questions of

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Speaker 2: where it's at, and he said they had actually put

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Speaker 2: it across to the coroner, and that also just pretty

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Speaker 2: much they were saying that they had done you know,

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Speaker 2: when I questioned, he said to me, we did do

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Speaker 2: our job. And I said, well, if you had done

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Speaker 2: your job, then why was I out there doing what

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Speaker 2: I was doing, and you know, finding phones, door knocking

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Speaker 2: to find out that you hadn't done so and and

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Speaker 2: he's and I said, and what and if even if

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Speaker 2: it was under an investigation, why would they let me

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Speaker 2: as a mother coming to the station every couple of

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Speaker 2: days saying this is not a misadventure. Why would they

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Speaker 2: let me go through that? Like, why knowing that I

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Speaker 2: was door knocking, knowing that I was talking to people.

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Speaker 2: Since then, I have caught up with his ex wife

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Speaker 2: ye and his mate and had to chat with them

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Speaker 2: because the ex his mate turned around and said that

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Speaker 2: he had some stuff that I needed to know after

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Speaker 2: watching your podcast, the one we last done, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: like you know, and even to that, it was I

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Speaker 2: was informed that he was in casino after he murdered Audrey.

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Speaker 2: And now I've found out by speaking to his wife

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Speaker 2: and she said he wasn't at casino because they were

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Speaker 2: looking for him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Look, Kathleen, I suppose what I learned as a homicide

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Speaker 1: detective is that there's a lot of information that comes

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Speaker 1: in and you can call them rumors, and quite often

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Speaker 1: when you go back to the source of it, that's

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Speaker 1: one person telling another person something and that gets passed

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Speaker 1: on and lost in translation, and when you follow up

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Speaker 1: the investigation, you find that there's no substance to that

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Speaker 1: information that's not making excuses the reality of it. And

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Speaker 1: I suppose that people who haven't heard the two episodes

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Speaker 1: we did where we talked about exactly what happened. If

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Speaker 1: they're listening to this, it's probably a good idea to

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Speaker 1: go back and listen to those two episodes. But in summary, Audrey,

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Speaker 1: your daughter was walking home in the early hours of

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Speaker 1: the morning and she didn't arrive home. She'd left the

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Speaker 1: left a hotel. She wasn't drunk, and that's what's been firmly,

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Speaker 1: firmly established. Nineteen year old drugs no drugs, had a

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Speaker 1: whole life ahead of her. She was about to join

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Speaker 1: or had joined the Navy and was about to go

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Speaker 1: down and start the training. She was physically active, she

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Speaker 1: was an athlete, a swimmer, and she was found deceased

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Speaker 1: in a waterway that's described as a creek. It's a

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Speaker 1: river type creek that runs along a road leading from Gosford.

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Speaker 1: How that was written off and you were told that

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Speaker 1: there was nothing suspicious about it's misadventure. So we've got

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Speaker 1: a situation where your daughter's just walking home, not drunk,

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Speaker 1: and has just fallen into a river and drowned and.

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Speaker 2: Been on the phone to her girlfriend's all the way

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Speaker 2: home chatting.

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Speaker 1: And from that from that scene, and we won't go

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Speaker 1: into the details, people can have it listened to the

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Speaker 1: first podcast that we did with you, but her phone

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Speaker 1: wasn't found. She had DNA from the offender, the person

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Speaker 1: who was charged with a murder, under her.

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Speaker 2: Fingernails, a left index finger.

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Speaker 1: And I said it on the last podcast, and I

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Speaker 1: say it on this podcast. How the hell did please

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Speaker 1: not treat that as suspicious from the outset?

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Speaker 2: Well, Garry, can I just say too, you know, like

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Speaker 2: I'm still searching, I'm still door knocking, you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: still going down backstreets. Because when i'd actually spoken to

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Speaker 2: his mate and his wife and so I know that

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Speaker 2: he went there. Yep, after he murdered, So he went

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Speaker 2: to Saratoga. They told me that he jumped, that he

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Speaker 2: headed back to the station and jumped on the train

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Speaker 2: and headed back. Well, I know he was in Saratoga.

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Speaker 2: And when I also said previous that my girlfriend saw

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Speaker 2: him at the site the following Friday after he took

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Speaker 2: Audrey's life, they denied that. And firstly they told me

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Speaker 2: when I went to the site when they were doing

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Speaker 2: a replay, I was informed. I walked up to one

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Speaker 2: of the constables and said, look, I've been in for

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Speaker 2: my girlfriend's come in to say that he was here

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Speaker 2: at the location. She said, yes, he's phone dig to

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Speaker 2: the location. Then when we obviously had meetings again, we

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Speaker 2: were told no, it wasn't He was up at casino

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Speaker 2: that morning. That morning, so only about three or a

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Speaker 2: couple of weeks back after Christmas, I went and spent

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Speaker 2: Christmas Day with my mom and just the two of

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Speaker 2: us just hung out at the nursing home. We didn't

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Speaker 2: celebrate Christmas at all, the whole family. It just wasn't

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Speaker 2: right this year. But what I wanted to say is

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Speaker 2: that that couple of days after I got back, I'd

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Speaker 2: been informed that there was a camera on the opposite

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Speaker 2: side of the road, a couple of feet down near

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Speaker 2: the mower shop, and it's a massive, big camera. When

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Speaker 2: I knocked on his door, and the boy that lives there,

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Speaker 2: he works at the Eleanora and he works in the

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Speaker 2: He works there and he gets home late, and he's

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Speaker 2: a gamer, and he's also a computer He's always on

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Speaker 2: his computer. So he said he saw Audrey that morning

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Speaker 2: because he's dog. He got home early morning, heard the

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Speaker 2: dogs open the screen, saw Audrey walking, then saw him

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Speaker 2: walking behind the next morning, the police turned up on

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Speaker 2: his doorstep and he's got footage of that which I

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Speaker 2: have now of them going into his house picking up

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Speaker 2: the footage of Audrey and him behind her, and then

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Speaker 2: they took the evidence. And then a week later they

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Speaker 2: came back and got some more and the gentleman actually

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Speaker 2: said to me, Kathleen, I was so angry. I was

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Speaker 2: so angry. I gave him footage of him behind her,

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Speaker 2: and I questioned him on that day, why haven't you

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Speaker 2: followed through all that light?

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Speaker 1: So that was a day after that morning, that morning, the.

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Speaker 2: Day of can I just say too? Audrey's best friend's

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Speaker 2: father who actually found Audrey, which didn't come through and

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Speaker 2: tell me earlier, but obviously when we did the podcast,

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Speaker 2: he felt that he needed to come forward and say more.

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Speaker 2: When my friend's father found Audrey's bag, he did go

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Speaker 2: into the water and picked the bag up where he

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Speaker 2: looked at the identification and identified it was Audrey. The police.

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Speaker 2: He called the police, told everyone not to go into

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Speaker 2: the water or do anything else. When the police turned up,

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Speaker 2: they walked into the water with no gloves, no nothing,

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Speaker 2: picked up all the belongings, not put him in a bag.

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Speaker 2: It was no over fenced off. The next day. It

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Speaker 2: was never a creerent crime scene.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think I was comfortable.

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Speaker 1: We established that when I spoke to the last time

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Speaker 1: or the first time on the podcast and what I

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Speaker 1: looked at it, and after we sat down and spoke

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Speaker 1: and lenge me before before you even agreed to come

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Speaker 1: on the podcast the first time, that I've got to

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Speaker 1: offer an honest opinion based on my experience as homicide detective,

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Speaker 1: and I stick to that. And after we did the podcast,

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Speaker 1: you were preparing documentation for the coroner, the type of

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Speaker 1: thing that you want, and you were giving me a

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Speaker 1: lot of information. We had a lot of conversations, and

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Speaker 1: I broke down sort of four points that the questions

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Speaker 1: you've got really the murder of Audrey, the investigation or

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Speaker 1: lack thereof the initial stages of Audrey's murder, and what

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Speaker 1: happened in the leader, Why was the person that was

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Speaker 1: charged with Audrey's murder out and about in the first place,

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Speaker 1: and breaking that down And I made some notes here

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Speaker 1: because I think it's important and I want to be

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Speaker 1: very very clear on it. Why was Audrey's murder not

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Speaker 1: treated as suspicious from the outset?

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Speaker 3: Can?

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Speaker 1: And if so, when will the police justify what efforts

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Speaker 1: they made to apprehend the person accused of Audrey's murder

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Speaker 1: when he was out on bail committing offenses before his

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Speaker 1: alleged murder of Audrey. Is there any failings by police?

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Speaker 1: Will an inquest or an internal police investigation identify these

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Speaker 1: failings and make changes and recommendations as a result. So

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Speaker 1: they're the first three points. And on that last one,

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Speaker 1: I think the thing that concerns me about this. People

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Speaker 1: make mistakes. Police make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. That's one thing.

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Speaker 1: But if you don't learn by the mistakes, acknowledge the mistakes,

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Speaker 1: that's where it gets a lot worse. And the fourth

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Speaker 1: point is there provisions for legal assistance to be provided

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Speaker 1: to the family so their interests are properly represented at

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Speaker 1: the inquest. Now that's an interesting one and one that

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Speaker 1: people don't often think about. But I know, speaking to you,

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Speaker 1: and I've seen this during my career in the homicide

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Speaker 1: people like yourself don't get involved in the criminal world,

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Speaker 1: don't get involved in the justice system, have don't have

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Speaker 1: dealings with police. You're good people. That's for the other people.

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Speaker 1: So it's a completely foreign world to you. And some

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Speaker 1: of the questions that you've asked me about what is

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Speaker 1: the purpose of the inquest and.

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Speaker 3: That I'm just shocked.

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Speaker 1: I'm shocked for you that you have no idea what

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Speaker 1: the whole purpose purpose of So breaking down in the

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Speaker 1: conversations that we've had, the inquest is to determine the

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Speaker 1: cause and manner of a person's death.

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Speaker 3: Now person has been charged.

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Speaker 1: I know you don't like mentioning his name, so we

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Speaker 1: won't mention his name again. The person that was charged

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Speaker 1: killed himself in prison, you would have potentially got answers

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Speaker 1: when it went to court about what happened. The evidence

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Speaker 1: would have been presented. Once this person has taken his

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Speaker 1: own own life, then we've got a situation that you

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Speaker 1: haven't got answers, and the answers are what you're looking for.

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Speaker 1: So breaking down those questions why Audrey's murder was not

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Speaker 1: true suspicious from the outset, we talked about the fact

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Speaker 1: that the nineteen year old girl, healthy, nineteen year old

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Speaker 1: girl walking home has just been found deceased in a

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Speaker 1: waterway beside the road. One thing I was taught in

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Speaker 1: homicide that you treat it as suspicious until you can

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Speaker 1: prove otherwise. And that's an important important thing. My assessment

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Speaker 1: from what you've told me, is that that that wasn't done.

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Speaker 1: And I go as far as to say, if you

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Speaker 1: didn't campaign and push police and push police, this very

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Speaker 1: well could have been written off as a misadventure.

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Speaker 2: That's my way, I believe, definitely, that's.

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Speaker 1: My interpretation of it.

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Speaker 2: What's definitely, oh definitely, like you you know, they mode

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Speaker 2: the grass the day after. The council mode the grass

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Speaker 2: the day after. It was never a crime scene. And

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Speaker 2: you know, as we said right from the beginning when

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Speaker 2: I said where's her phone, everything was just it's a misadventure.

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Speaker 2: And you know, it was like that was just so crazy.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, those few days were probably not blurry.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I do come in and out. There's things

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Speaker 2: that people are telling me. Now that I've just realized

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Speaker 2: that my girlfriend and her two children, who are pretty

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Speaker 2: much my family I've been friends with her since I

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Speaker 2: was too, who practically brought Audrey up with me as well.

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Speaker 2: I only found out last week that they were on

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Speaker 2: the scene and found Audrey as well. You know, like,

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Speaker 2: how do young people go to a station saying there's

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Speaker 2: a location where her friend didn't come home, and this

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Speaker 2: is where the location is, and they're all there before

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Speaker 2: the police, and then they go down there, they find

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Speaker 2: the belongings and call the police, and then they walk up,

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Speaker 2: you know, like how from day and then to walk

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Speaker 2: even the way the one of them walked up to

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Speaker 2: me and the things they said, everything was just right

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Speaker 2: from day. It was never ever ever treat as a homicide.

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Speaker 2: It was, as far as I was concerned, it was

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Speaker 2: like a young girl walking home. She was probably intoxicated

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Speaker 2: or on drugs, and she's falling in the water, and

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Speaker 2: that was it. They didn't actually look at her as

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Speaker 2: a person like phone me and going, Okay, what type

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Speaker 2: of person is Audrey? You know, like give us some

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Speaker 2: information on Audrey. Never ask the question Now when you

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Speaker 2: thought if they asked all those questions, they would have

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Speaker 2: went alarm bells. She's a triathlon she's an ocean swimmer.

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Speaker 2: She's going in the navy. Hey, there has to be

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Speaker 2: more to this. Nothing.

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Speaker 1: Well, you asked me to be honest and forthright in

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Speaker 1: my opinions before you started dealing with me, and I

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Speaker 1: can tell you, and I'm more than confident I will

348
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,920
Speaker 1: argue the point with anyone that wants to argue with

349
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Speaker 1: me that that should have been treated there's a suspicious

350
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Speaker 1: death right from the start, right from the start, so

351
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Speaker 1: many warning signs there, and the protocol for police because

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Speaker 1: we've given them opportunity to respond to us, and they've

353
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Speaker 1: said they don't want to respond until because it's before

354
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Speaker 1: the inquest, which a date hasn't even been set. But

355
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Speaker 1: why wasn't that true that as a homicide to start with?

356
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Speaker 1: Were homicide called? Because the proper protocol is that when

357
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Speaker 1: a situation like that occurs, local police contact homicide and assessment.

358
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Speaker 1: There is not an assessment homicide or in charge of

359
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Speaker 1: the matter from the outset.

360
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Speaker 2: I don't believe.

361
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Speaker 3: So these are the type.

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Speaker 1: Of things that you want answers to do. I have

363
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,119
Speaker 1: it correct. Were you told there would be an investigation

364
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 1: by police into it? An internal investigation? Was that something

365
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,160
Speaker 1: that's ever been suggested?

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Speaker 2: As I said, right from day one, all I was

367
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Speaker 2: ever told, all I was ever told is that it

368
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:45,959
Speaker 2: was a misadventure.

369
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Speaker 3: Right and then after it was shown to be a murder.

370
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Speaker 2: Then obviously that wasn't well even then, that wasn't until

371
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Speaker 2: we Trevor and I were called into Surrey Hill Police

372
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Speaker 2: station where we had to there from our locations. We

373
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Speaker 2: didn't have anyone come and collect us. We had to

374
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Speaker 2: drive there separately because obviously Trevor and I are not together.

375
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Speaker 2: We get to Surrey Hill Place station and one of

376
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Speaker 2: the constables turned around and said, we've arrested someone for

377
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,840
Speaker 2: the murder of Audrey. He said to me their support

378
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,639
Speaker 2: out there with Grace House, which they've been lovely, but

379
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Speaker 2: as I said, nine to five, nothing, There was no

380
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:31,400
Speaker 2: support for us leaving there. There was no one addressing

381
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 2: us on how or the procedures of what we needed

382
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 2: to do next, or how to go about that or

383
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 2: you know, as I said, we're fish out of order.

384
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Speaker 2: I've learned so much. I've had to learn so much.

385
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Speaker 1: Are you hoping to get these answers from the inquest?

386
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Speaker 2: Is this I'm really hoping? Yes?

387
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Speaker 1: And has anyone informed you whether the inquest or look

388
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Speaker 1: at the actions of the police and whether they could

389
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Speaker 1: be improved, because it concerns me greatly that if this

390
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 1: is the standard of way a nineteen year old girl

391
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 1: found deceased in a waterways is investigated from the outset,

392
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,439
Speaker 1: surely we need to have a look at protocols or

393
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 1: reinforce protocols or people that have not followed protocols need

394
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: to be disciplined or re educated about it because this

395
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: just should not happen.

396
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Speaker 2: Oh, Gary, Look, I do have a lawyer and a

397
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,400
Speaker 2: barrister that I spoke to a couple of weeks ago

398
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,159
Speaker 2: that are on the case with me. Now you know,

399
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 2: they're saying it could be another two years before I

400
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 2: hear anything. That's why I decided to stay on the

401
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 2: coast and just keep hunting and trying to find as

402
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 2: much more information while I'm here. And that was a

403
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 2: little bit of a journey as well, trying to get

404
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 2: that all sorted out. But yeah, as I said, look,

405
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 2: I just I feel like, especially now, I understand people say,

406
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 2: you know, after grief and then the funeral, and then

407
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 2: you know, the year comes and people get on with

408
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,879
Speaker 2: their lives, and then she's not forgotten. I know that,

409
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Speaker 2: and I know that she will never be forgotten by

410
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 2: her friends and loved ones. But for me, I have

411
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 2: a very tight group of people on the coasts that

412
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 2: have been absolutely amazing. But I'm still alone. I wake

413
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 2: up every morning and I'm alone, and they've got their

414
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 2: lives and they're all helping where they can because they've

415
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 2: all got work to do as well, but for me,

416
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,199
Speaker 2: as I said, sometimes I just sit there and I'm like,

417
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 2: do they want me to give up? Is this what

418
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 2: they're hoping for? Are they hoping that I won't? Because

419
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 2: I just feel there's no there's just nothing. It's like

420
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 2: they've allowed someone out of the system that should never

421
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 2: have been out. Audrey was in the wrong place at

422
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 2: the wrong time. She didn't know him, as we said,

423
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 2: she was out celebrating going into the Navy. Two weeks later,

424
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 2: her life was taken because he committed suicide in prison.

425
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Speaker 2: The case obviously that side of it, I probably would

426
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 2: never know. And there's just nothing. There's no follow up,

427
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 2: there's no no what if it's not me ringing, texting,

428
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 2: pushing all the time, you know, even in regards like

429
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 2: I was saying, I wanted to you know, so things

430
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 2: are coming fresh every day, there's new stuff coming up.

431
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 2: And even yesterday I was, you know, driving driving into

432
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 2: Sydney yesterday and I thought all those people that came

433
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Speaker 2: forward and the witnesses that were with her, like, can

434
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Speaker 2: I see those I want to see what they wrote.

435
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 2: I wanted those people that were with her in her

436
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 2: last moments, you know, they've all been pulled in to

437
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 2: have a you know, do a statement, and you know,

438
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 2: I want to know. I don't actually know from that

439
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 2: night that she left Gosford. I do know a little bit,

440
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,239
Speaker 2: but I don't know, and I want to know, and

441
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 2: I think as a mother, the courteous thing to do

442
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 2: is to sit down and tell me. And there's people

443
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 2: that know.

444
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 1: Okay, I see what's happening. It's prolonging your grief not knowing,

445
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: and that's just let you. You're called up and you're

446
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 1: just your head spinning trying to find out what's happened.

447
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 1: I spoke to you the previous occasion, and you said

448
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: to me, would it be normal for people when they

449
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: give statements to police and an investigation, that they get

450
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: a copy of the statement and there's that statement allowed

451
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: to be passed around. I said, look, in my practices,

452
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: if I'm investigating a homicide, that wouldn't be the norm

453
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 1: that we would hand out and a statement because it

454
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: potentially could be part on to someone and there could

455
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: be a contamination. So I always err on the side

456
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 1: of caution to protect the integrity of the investigation. But

457
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: you explain that to the families, and the families see

458
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: what's going on. I was taught and I passed this

459
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: on and I'd like to think that people look at

460
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: it this way as well. I would always say the families,

461
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 1: the questions that you're asking that I can't answer them

462
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: right now. The reason I can't answer them is because

463
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 1: the matter is before the court. I will at some

464
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 1: point in time sit down with you and go through

465
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: everything and explain any questions that you have, or answer

466
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,360
Speaker 1: any questions that you have. Where this situation, I think

467
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: is a little bit different, is that what's happened after

468
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: Audrey was found found de ceased and the lack of investigation,

469
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: and I think that's something that needs to be addressed

470
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: pronto otherwise it can occur again. And if these are

471
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 1: the practices that across the state, we need to do

472
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: something so this type of thing can't happen because someone

473
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: makes a judgment call that this was misadventure and then

474
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: you don't do any follow up. That's not the way

475
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: policing should should work. But now, for the life of me,

476
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: I can't see why the police can't sit down with

477
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: you and go through everything that was being done. It's

478
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: an inquest, it's not a criminal court.

479
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:21,439
Speaker 3: That's coming up.

480
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 1: It's an inquest. It's a public inquiry into finding out

481
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: what's happened. I don't see how sitting down with you

482
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: and explaining some of the things, some of the questions

483
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: you've got because you don't know when the inquest is

484
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: coming up there, That's what I mean.

485
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 2: Like even when I went to see them the other day,

486
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 2: Like why am I kept in the dark? You know?

487
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 2: Like why am I? Why is no one telling me anything?

488
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: You know? Like I understand that it's got but as

489
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 2: you know, as I've been informed, even the inquest, nothing

490
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 2: can come with that. All I can do is find

491
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 2: out the information, and even then with the coroner, he

492
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: may decide not to I don't know do I get

493
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 2: the opportunity to hear the whole, Like you know, I've

494
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks, two weeks ago one of the

495
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: constables actually rang the head lady that's been involved with

496
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 2: this from day dot with me to get a have

497
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 2: an interview and have a chat with her. And I'm

498
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 2: like twelve months later. You know that some of them

499
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 2: were seven months later. Like I don't understand.

500
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: If and with all the emotion floating around in your head,

501
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: I try to break it down in simple, simple terms

502
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: with the inquest it's cause and manner of Audrey's death,

503
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: which is that that's understandable. But the coroner does also

504
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: have powers to look at the way the police responded

505
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: to The.

506
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 2: Investigator can't action on it, though, can they.

507
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: They can make recommendations, but recommendations whether they come into place.

508
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: But on the face of it, what you've told me

509
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: and the information I've got, and we get nothing back

510
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: from the police because all these questions that talking about here,

511
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: That's why I wanted to get the police side of things,

512
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,239
Speaker 1: and I was hoping that we'd get an answer. But

513
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: it comes down to it will not comment because it's

514
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: subject to a cranial inquest of which a date hasn't

515
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: been hasn't been set.

516
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 3: I would have thought there'd be.

517
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: Some sort of internal investigation about the situation that happened here,

518
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: because I just it doesn't sit right with me. And yeah,

519
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: I see the pain you're going through. Losing your daughter

520
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: is painful, But when you lost your daughter and you're

521
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: not getting the answers that you should be should be getting.

522
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 2: And then this is it, Garry like, I will not

523
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 2: stop and this is not even for me about you know,

524
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 2: as I've said, people say to me all the time,

525
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 2: you know, thank you, thank you for trying to make

526
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 2: a change, and or not trying. Thank you for doing this,

527
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 2: and you know you will get change or you will this.

528
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: And it's like, but you've got to understand first, I

529
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: cannot get change on this. I get justice for Audrey.

530
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 2: Change is justice for Audrey, and then they'll be changed.

531
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 2: I will not stop.

532
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 3: I will not see what do you say is justice

533
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:09,959
Speaker 3: for Audrey?

534
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 2: What would you can say everyone that's accountable, Like, I

535
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 2: don't even know if the constables that were involved in

536
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 2: the situation, if there was a higher place coming up,

537
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 2: someone higher that was telling them not to action on

538
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 2: these situations. I'm not pointing the finger. I'm just what

539
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 2: I'm saying is this wasn't done. I've questioned I've questioned them.

540
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 2: I've looked them in the eyes, and they've just looked

541
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 2: at me and said, Kathleen, it's a misadventure, over and

542
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 2: over and over. And you know, even to the fact,

543
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 2: after as I said, when I saw Audrey for the

544
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 2: last time and everything, everything, even the coroner after seeing her,

545
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: I feel everything was just put down as a misadventure.

546
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 2: Because for what I was told, how she was going

547
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 2: to look and what they did to her wasn't she

548
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 2: hadn't been touched. As far as I'm concerned, I think

549
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 2: they wrote it off as a misadventure.

550
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: And yeah, and this is your thoughts, and I'm offering

551
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: an opinion based on my expertise as homicide. If it

552
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: was written off as a misadventure, a mistake has been made.

553
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: As I've said, we all make mistakes. And I've found

554
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: you more than reasonable in your attitude towards police. It's

555
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: not like vindictive.

556
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 2: You just yeah, I've never been naster.

557
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, trying to get trying to get answers if mistakes

558
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: were made, who made that judgment call to write this

559
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: off as a misadventure and what's happened to that person?

560
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: Is that person still to this day doing the same

561
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: the same thing, And it's concerning so and.

562
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 2: That's not and you know, when we talk about mistakes,

563
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 2: there's more than one person involved here, So how can

564
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 2: we all how can they all make a mistake? You know?

565
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: And when I walk in there and I explained to

566
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 2: them after I've been to see Audrey, wouldn't that rattle

567
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: you to kind of go yeah, this is and all

568
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: the stories people are saying the community coming together like.

569
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, so if there's a problem in the system, if

570
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: we're not attacking the individuals, we're attacking the process and

571
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: the system that this could fall through the gaps. There's

572
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: another And I consider this more more concerning from looking

573
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: at it, and I've spoken to you about it that

574
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: one of the points that we talked about, can police

575
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: justify the actions they made to locate him when he

576
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: was breaching he's breaching his avios? Now he was on

577
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: the community corrections order from January I believe, So that

578
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: was January two thousand and twenty five when he was

579
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: charged with Audrey's murder. Was also charged with breaching eleven

580
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: counts of breaching AVOs I believe.

581
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 2: And then there was stories of the week before that

582
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: he was you know, he'd been on a bender for

583
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 2: like four days of drugs and alcohol, Like, how is

584
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 2: someone able to do that?

585
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: Well, my question is, and this is something that I

586
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: think really needs to be asked because I think as

587
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: a nation, we're tired of these people that afflicting violence

588
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: on women out on bail when they shouldn't be on bail,

589
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: not questioning the court decision.

590
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 3: What I'm questioning, because this.

591
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,239
Speaker 1: Is the only area I've got expertise in, is what

592
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: did the police do when he was breaching those AVOs? Now,

593
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: some of those breaches, as I understand it, and this

594
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: is just from the information I've gathered, was via his telephone.

595
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 1: How can police say they can't find him when he's

596
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: using his telephone to commit these offenses, making threats on

597
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: his phone?

598
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:57,719
Speaker 3: It's pretty simple.

599
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: So I would be one thing that and this is

600
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: in discussions with you, and I tried to articulate it

601
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 1: into a specific point on what needs to be addressed

602
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: is what actions were done to find him when he

603
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: was breaching the AVOs before Audrey was killed. Now it's

604
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 1: obvious what I'm saying here, if those actions were done,

605
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: maybe Audrey wouldn't have been that random victim that she

606
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: she became.

607
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 2: Well, you know, even as I said, I caught up

608
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 2: with his wife and she said, oh, you know, he

609
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 2: was calling me thirteen times. I mean she never reported that.

610
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: Well I heard or read or saw something that she said.

611
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: She got to the point where she didn't bother phone

612
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: in the police because it happened so many times.

613
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 2: And then how those conversations that she had on its phone,

614
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 2: and she said she was blocking him, but yet ringing him.

615
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 2: When you block a phone, someone can't ring you. So

616
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 2: all that, and did the police actually go to her,

617
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 2: did they get her records? Did they see there was communication?

618
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 2: Did they find out if he had a different phone

619
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 2: or a different phone number? Do you know what I mean?

620
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 2: Like all this stuff, it's like to me, it's yeah,

621
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 2: I just don't think for one minute they did any

622
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 2: chasing at all.

623
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: Well, you are asked for my advice and thoughts on it,

624
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: and I made that commitment. My biggest concern is what

625
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,240
Speaker 1: efforts were made to locate him. Now, what I'm also

626
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: saying here is those records are readily obtainable with the police.

627
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 1: Like the police, when you do something, you keeping records.

628
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: So if they've got the records there, they'll be able

629
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: to show well, on such and such a date, we

630
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: did this, we did this, follow up, we did this.

631
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: I would be asking, as you're said to me, and

632
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 1: in discussions with your solicitor, where are those records? Have

633
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: police got those records? Can they demonstrate what they did

634
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: in an effort to find him before he murdered Audrey Well?

635
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 2: This is what I'm saying. Also, too simple question. They

636
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 2: said to me after he took Audrey's life, that he

637
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 2: went back to the train station, and what I was

638
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 2: told he had mud on his shoes and he was

639
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: at the station. And now on that video clip that

640
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 2: I picked up from that gentleman of him walking, he

641
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,959
Speaker 2: has twenty four hours after that, he's not walking past. Yeah,

642
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 2: so all those questions, were they looking for him at all?

643
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 2: Were they doing anything after they knew that? I mean,

644
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 2: they must have known that photo behind him, Like when

645
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 2: as I said to you, when I saw that photo,

646
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 2: and I said to him, why didn't I see that

647
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 2: photo of him walking behind her? And he said because

648
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 2: he was twenty meters exactly four minutes behind and it

649
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 2: was irrelevant.

650
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 3: Well, we've been out to the scene.

651
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,439
Speaker 1: I know the scene, well, I know the location well,

652
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,399
Speaker 1: and yeah, four minutes behind that's a straight road.

653
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: And we did it on Sunday. Yeah, we did the

654
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 2: walk on Sunday.

655
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,479
Speaker 1: So anyone that's in the vicinity and the.

656
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 2: Car's going pass, yeah, like why didn't they stop? And

657
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 2: you know, why didn't they straight away get onto all

658
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 2: the taxis and the ubers for cam you know, like

659
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 2: there was this, and I kept asking, and when I

660
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 2: kept saying, I want to see all the footage, they

661
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 2: kept saying to me, Oh, it's in Sydney. It's in Sydney.

662
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 2: And then two and a half weeks later when they

663
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 2: finally finally say to me, yes, you can come in.

664
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: And that's when I'm sitting at Audrey's site and I'm

665
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 2: sitting there and I see the house and I'm thinking, oh,

666
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: And I phoned and I said to him, has anybody

667
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 2: door knocked? And they went, yes, we've door knocked and spoken.

668
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: No one's heard anything. They heard something like something like

669
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 2: a dog or something barking, and I end up I

670
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: had an hour spare, so I went over there and

671
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 2: I door knocked, and I said this in the last podcast.

672
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 2: As we found out when we sat down on a

673
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 2: board meeting with all the big department that they didn't

674
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 2: door knock. They put business cards into the screen door.

675
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 2: A young girl has been found murdered or found dead

676
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 2: at a creek, and it's not the first time it's happened.

677
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: That's when an assumption is made, and I've saw it

678
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,240
Speaker 1: too many times in homicide, when the assumption is made

679
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: that it's not suspicious, then everything just falls by the wayside.

680
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 2: So I've heard so much about Gosford, you know, and

681
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 2: like everyone comes up here to retire. They you know,

682
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 2: it's a country town and once again a country town,

683
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 2: not much happens up here. Every reason to even more

684
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 2: look at that as a homicide, because it's not like

685
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 2: it's happening like in Sydney every two seconds, do you

686
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 2: know what I mean? And just the fact that I

687
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 2: went there time and time and time and time again.

688
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's Gary jubilin here. Want they get more

689
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: out of I Catch Killers, then you should head over

690
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: to our new video feed on Spotify where you can

691
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: watch every episode of I Catch Killers. Just search for

692
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: I Catch Killers video in your Spotify and start watching today.

693
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 1: If it was a situation that again without attacking the individuals,

694
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: if the police are over worked there and they're avoiding things,

695
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: but breaking it down, what efforts and I think, as

696
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: Audrey's mum, you're entitled to get these answers sooner rather

697
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: than later. What efforts were made to locate him when

698
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 1: he was out breaching his avas prior to him murdering Audrey.

699
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 1: I think that's a reasonable question, and it's not a

700
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: cynical question. We're not trying to cause problems for anyone,

701
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: but that's an obvious question you, as a mother would

702
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,919
Speaker 1: be asking why was he out? What information was put

703
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 1: before the court in January when he was put on

704
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 1: a community corrections order? Was all the information there? And

705
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: more importantly, if he started breaching AVOs after that point

706
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: in time, what did police do to find him before

707
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: he inflicted the damage and took Audrey's Audrey's life. They're

708
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: crucial questions that I would like to see answer that

709
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: the inquest, and you have asked me time and time

710
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,439
Speaker 1: again about what an inquest can do. They're the type

711
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: of things can this death? Could this death have been prevented?

712
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: And let's just say, and I'm speaking hypothetically here, so

713
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: I don't want people to jump on me hypothetically, Let's

714
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: just say police didn't do anything to catch him. There's

715
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: a failing there. We know about domestic violence and all

716
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: sorts of issues there. If police made no efforts to

717
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: find him when he was breaching a vos, there's a

718
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: failing in the system, and that's a.

719
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 2: Failing to Trevor and I and everyone that loved Audrey.

720
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 2: You know, they've taken They've just and this is the

721
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 2: thing that I wake up every morning when I'm like,

722
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 2: how do they just get to release someone they take?

723
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 2: You know, he should have been behind bars, we know

724
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 2: that release him out on the street. He takes my

725
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 2: daughter's life and that's it. Yeah, that's it, Like, how

726
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 2: is that possible? I understand this stuff going on in

727
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 2: the walls and all over the world, but to actually

728
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 2: treat like every morning I wake up and when I

729
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 2: say I'm alone because it's just so surreal.

730
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I think as a society we've got the

731
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:25,320
Speaker 1: responsibility to protect vulnerable people and a young girl walking home.

732
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: As a society we should be I'm just blown away.

733
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 2: That's why I can't understand. I'm like, where is the

734
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 2: support here, Like the support from this you know, the

735
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 2: community and the people that love you know, but the

736
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 2: system nothing.

737
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 1: Well, if the system was supporting you, like twelve months

738
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 1: down the track, where's this inquest? What priority he's been

739
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: given to the inquest? Have you been updated when it's

740
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: likely to come ahead? Have the police told you what

741
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: they've done, Because clearly, and I think we can say

742
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 1: this clearly, there were some shortcomings in the initial investigation.

743
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: It's only speculation, that's only a query what was done

744
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: to locate him before he murdered Audrey. But what I

745
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,320
Speaker 1: will say is that police should have very detailed records

746
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: on what was actually done to recover him, the failings

747
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: at the start of the investigation. What's the problem with

748
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 1: police actually sitting down and going through all this with you.

749
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: I don't see how that. I don't see how that

750
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: impacts on an inquest Garry.

751
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 2: I even received a letter. I received a letter saying

752
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 2: that I needed to pick up Audery's belongings, and I

753
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 2: go to Gosford station and on the letter it said

754
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 2: that if I don't pick it up within the month,

755
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 2: then they'll be thrown out pretty much. And I turn

756
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: up at the station and they're like, nobody knows anything

757
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 2: about the letter, nobody knows where the stuff or whatever.

758
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 2: And they were like, oh, we'll get back to you

759
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 2: haven't heard. Like, see, how can they turn around and

760
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 2: just send me a letter to say they've got belongings

761
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 2: off my daughter and that if I don't pick them

762
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 2: up within the month, they'll be smissed. How does that?

763
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: Well, you ask me the question, what I think is

764
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: clearly lacking here is an acknowledgment of what this case

765
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: is about. Correct, that's a standard from an exhibit officer

766
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: or someone have responsibility through an exhibit, just a standard

767
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 1: form that goes out.

768
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 2: But really correct, I know, and I know that it's

769
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 2: the case.

770
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: Given the circumstances as the history of this, a little

771
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: bit more care and consideration.

772
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 2: Correct, that's what I mean. Like, you know, I understand

773
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 2: that's a system that went out, But even when I

774
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 2: went in there there was no oh, we apologize or whatever.

775
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 2: But I will get back to it. And they still

776
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 2: haven't got back to me, do you know what I mean? Like,

777
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 2: that's her phone, her clothing, her shoes.

778
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 1: Has anyone involved in the case been appointed to liaison

779
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: officer for you? Someone that you can pick them?

780
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 2: It was originally there was originally yes, I can pick

781
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 2: up and speak to one, but only it's only if

782
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 2: I pick up the phone to him. Now he doesn't

783
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 2: call back to me anymore.

784
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 3: If you pick up the phone.

785
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: Then we're speculating here and say, well, is there an

786
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: internal investigation into what's happened with Audrey? I'd be interested

787
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: in what the what the answer is you've got the

788
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: right to ask these questions. And I just want to

789
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: clarify here I sound.

790
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 3: Like I come.

791
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 1: You know, I'm cranky at the police. I love policing.

792
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: It's an important job and there's great people in there,

793
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: and I'm sure there is great people involved in everything's to.

794
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 3: Do with Audrey.

795
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 1: But if mistakes were made and when someone's life has

796
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: been taken, there needs to be accountability.

797
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And this is what I keep saying. It's not

798
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 2: it's probably not the people that are on the surface.

799
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 2: It's it's probably if I'm a higher power, I don't know.

800
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 2: But for me, I'm not pointing the finger at this

801
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 2: stage at anyone. I'm just saying what wasn't done is

802
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 2: not acceptable.

803
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 1: I think the best way forward for you is you

804
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: want answers, specific answers to specific questions. Then why was

805
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: this treated as a misadventure before it was determined to

806
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 1: be a homicide. What accountability has there been for the

807
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 1: people that made the wrong assessment from the start and

808
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: treated as a misadventure? Has there been the internal investigation?

809
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 1: Have pray the coals changed? I think you look at

810
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: that and I'd be very inquisitive as to what was

811
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: done in the lead up to Audrey's murder to locate

812
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 1: him when he was in breach of his AVOs, because

813
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: I think that is.

814
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,320
Speaker 2: Where that is where I need to know you.

815
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: That's if the system has broken down. That's where it's

816
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: broken down big time, and the consequences are devastating in

817
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: that Audrey's lost her life. That if mistakes were made

818
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: there after she was murdered, if mistakes were made in

819
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 1: the wrong assessment, that's concerning.

820
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 2: Can I ask you another question too, So he from

821
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 2: what I've been told, he actually confessed to what he

822
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 2: had done. I mean, obviously he's told a couple of people.

823
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 3: Yep.

824
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 2: Why aren't those people made accountable?

825
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 1: Well, there's certain defenses that would fit into that category.

826
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: I can't comment one way or the other. What I

827
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: can say is there is provisions four offenses aiding a

828
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: betting after a murder, different offenses that could fit into

829
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 1: that category. But it would be a breakdown of the details,

830
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 1: the specific details exactly what was said, what the person

831
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: did with the information, what was acting on the person's mind,

832
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: and did that person pass the information onto police when

833
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: spoken to? So it wasn't hindering an investigation. But look,

834
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: these are all the questions that need to be asked.

835
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: And I know you've been speaking to your solicitor and

836
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 1: letters to the coroner, and I get frustrated with police

837
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 1: hiding behind And I say this hiding behind it before

838
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 1: a coroner's inquest because the coroner's inquest can drag on

839
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: for years, as I've seen in many many matters.

840
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 2: How do I get that brought forward? How can I

841
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 2: do that? Like, how do I do that?

842
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 1: Well, again, I said, I'd give you honest advice. I

843
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: think I would be writing, writing to the police and saying,

844
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,439
Speaker 1: what's happening with the inquest? Can you give us a date?

845
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: Has there been inquiries into how Audrey's initial investigations treaty

846
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: as a misadventure? It wasn't investigation, it's just written off.

847
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 1: They could come back and say, okay, we've got to

848
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 1: wait till, wait till the inquest. Well, then you push

849
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: up on wh when's the inquest and what efforts were

850
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,760
Speaker 1: made to locate him before Audrey's murder?

851
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 3: And that's I.

852
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 1: Think that there. There, they're the questions. And you can

853
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: also reach out to the Coroner's Court and make contact

854
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 1: with them and say, well, what's the parameters of the

855
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: inquest going to be when's it likely to be held?

856
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: Just to give you some peace of mind, because I know,

857
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: and when you reached out and spoke to me again

858
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: and saying that that's twelve months since Audrey was murdered,

859
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: and yeah, I got the sense of you just on

860
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: a spinning wheel, just running around.

861
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 2: And even when I spoke to the coroners, when we

862
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 2: sat down with the coroner's.

863
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 3: Counsel.

864
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I said to me, how you're telling me

865
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 2: this is a couple of years process. They said, two years,

866
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 2: and it's been a year now being told two years again.

867
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,360
Speaker 3: So you've just lost a year in that. Ye, another

868
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 3: year and now.

869
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 2: There's another two years. They're saying, this is just from

870
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,919
Speaker 2: the solicitors that I've spoken to. And then I sat

871
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 2: there and I went, but how did the Bondi situation

872
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 2: get done within twelve months?

873
00:48:58,160 --> 00:48:58,720
Speaker 3: Good question?

874
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 2: You know, like bond I was done within twelve months?

875
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 2: You know, how did that happen?

876
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: And that they would say, well, the magnitude of what

877
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 1: happened at Bondai and we need to make sure that

878
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: things are in place so that doesn't happen again. What

879
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: I'm saying to you, And this is the argument that

880
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: should be put forward. There's another person in the country

881
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:25,359
Speaker 1: that hasn't been shocked by the amount of domestic related violence. Now,

882
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 1: make it clear that the person that murdered Audrey, they

883
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 1: weren't in a domestic relationship. But there is a time

884
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 1: with domestic violence in that he was out on the

885
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 1: community corrections order because of domestic violence and was breaching

886
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:41,240
Speaker 1: domestic violence. And my question is why wasn't this person

887
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: in custody after those breaches? And if the police can't

888
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 1: find him, they can't find him, But what inquiries were

889
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:52,399
Speaker 1: done or what things were done to locate him when

890
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: he was out committing these offenses.

891
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 2: I mean, he got hold of his son, so you

892
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 2: know that there was ways that they must have been

893
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 2: able to get in contact with him. Do you know

894
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 2: what I mean?

895
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,760
Speaker 1: Well, if he had the phone, who's breaching on the phone,

896
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: they could have found him. I'm certain of that. So

897
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 1: these are the questions that you want to answered.

898
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 3: Now.

899
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: My argument if people say, Okay, well it's going to

900
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: take two years, my argument would be, well, hold that

901
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 1: if it takes two years, we've learned nothing. And I

902
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 1: respect the role of the coroner, and the coroners do

903
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: great work and do hand down some very detailed findings.

904
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: Respect the findings of the coroner, but given the fact

905
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 1: that there's some major potentially because we don't know until

906
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: all the facts and the balance everything I say out here,

907
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: until all the information comes in, I'm getting it from

908
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,720
Speaker 1: your side of things. We haven't heard from the police.

909
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 1: We tried to get it from the police. But the

910
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: coroner can look at all those situations and address them

911
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: now delaying that. You know, they say two years, You'll

912
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 1: be lucky if it's three years, because you've already been

913
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: shown how it can just drag on and drag on.

914
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,399
Speaker 1: Maybe we need to address this before the inquest and

915
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: the police are in the position where they can address it.

916
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: If there were failings done, they should address it. And

917
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: I think you're entitled as a mother of a murdered

918
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 1: nineteen year old girl, to be told that if police

919
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 1: have done anything to make sure this type of thing

920
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 1: doesn't happen again, Because if there were failings and they

921
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: haven't been addressed, it doesn't give anyone any confidence, does it.

922
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 2: No, God, No, and again on that side of it,

923
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying, Like in regard to you know,

924
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 2: I know that I have got a massive, a massive

925
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 2: journey a head for some of life. Really, isn't it

926
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 2: as like? But you know, people are saying to me

927
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 2: all the time, you know it's too hard, or you

928
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 2: know you're fighting against the law, you're fighting against this.

929
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 2: But to me, I don't see that. I don't see that.

930
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 2: I just think if I'm going for the bigger picture,

931
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 2: I'm not starting from the little part of it, I'm

932
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 2: going from David One's like everyone that you know, from

933
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 2: the judge that needs to be approached, that the police

934
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 2: system needs to be a place all those need to

935
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:12,919
Speaker 2: be accountable of what has actually happened here, and no

936
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 2: one has. No one's been made accountable. Everyone in life

937
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 2: who makes a mistake, as you know, is made accountable.

938
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:25,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I'd always say that you investigate a homicide,

939
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 1: you accept the responsibility and the accountability. I have not

940
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 1: got a problem with that, and I'm not being a

941
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:35,800
Speaker 1: hypocrite sitting here. I stood by that my whole career,

942
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: and I'll stand by what I did. But I think, okay,

943
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: if we look at what we hope to achieve by

944
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 1: coming on the podcast again voicing your opinions and getting

945
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 1: my thoughts on where there's been failings and what we're

946
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: looking for. The end result is that these issues, if

947
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 1: they are issues, are addressed sooner rather than later. And

948
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: it might their case we can wait for another two years,

949
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,760
Speaker 1: because then that's three years. So how many more mistakes

950
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: about I mean the.

951
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 2: Fact that he was they had a photo of him

952
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 2: that day and he was out for three weeks? Like,

953
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 2: what did they do there to find you? Like he

954
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 2: was in Saratoga.

955
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 1: Well, they weren't looking for him because they told you

956
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 1: it wasn't suspicious.

957
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,360
Speaker 2: That they had a photo of him that morning, Like

958
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 2: this is what you know what I mean like before,

959
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 2: So obviously what they were doing before was nothing, and

960
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 2: what they were doing after was nothing. I mean, it'll

961
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 2: be interesting to see.

962
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: A lot of a lot of people in your situation

963
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 1: because you're dealing with all the emotion that comes in

964
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 1: with this, and quite often sit down and speak to

965
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: someone and you've got a list of questions in your head.

966
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: You sit down and you want answers, and you walk

967
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: away and you're dealing with the emotion and the detail

968
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 1: of the information that's provided back. I think the way

969
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: forward for you is put it down in writing and

970
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: send it off to the police and done that and

971
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: have you been getting written.

972
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,919
Speaker 2: Respect so at the in the process. So from day

973
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 2: dot we've got everything, everything written down from right from

974
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 2: the right, from the beginning, from the conversations. Everything has

975
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 2: been documented. I've got a great teamwork of corporate ladies

976
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,720
Speaker 2: that have been working with me here, so we've got everything.

977
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 2: We're just in the process of also putting a complaint

978
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 2: into the actual police department. So that's something else that's

979
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 2: I'm going to be putting on. I've got a solicitor

980
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 2: and a barrister that's working on the case at the moment.

981
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 2: But as I said, look, it's still you know, even

982
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 2: when I spoke to them the other day and I

983
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 2: was like, you know, how do we get this moving?

984
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 2: Like I just feel like what am I supposed to

985
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 2: do for two years?

986
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: I wish they could understand You're not an adversary, You're

987
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 1: not fighting against them.

988
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 2: You just want I want I want this, I want society.

989
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 2: You know, there's so much ugliness out there, so much

990
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:56,919
Speaker 2: and we all need to come together and go it's

991
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 2: not okay. It's not okay, And I'm not on this

992
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 2: journey alone, that there has to be change. There has

993
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,799
Speaker 2: to be changed, and unless everyone gets on board and

994
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 2: supports then we're not going to and our kids and

995
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 2: the younger generation having kids, imagine what it's going to

996
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 2: be like. Every time you turn the telly on. It's

997
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 2: just educate your children. Get back to the old school

998
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 2: you know, manners, and you know, like, and this is

999
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 2: not just about girls, this is boys too, you know,

1000
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 2: like boys need to be safe too, as you know,

1001
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 2: you know, like it's not about an agenda, it's about anyone,

1002
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 2: you know. So and that was Audrey never ever, never, ever,

1003
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:44,279
Speaker 2: for a minute ever judged any sex or you know,

1004
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 2: anything whatsoever. She was just such a solid young girl

1005
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:52,280
Speaker 2: that just was had the world at affair and was thriving.

1006
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 1: You know from what you told me, what you've told

1007
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 1: me over the past yeah, twelve months or so, that

1008
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: she is an amazing young girl and she shouldn't be forgotten.

1009
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 1: I hope with all your frustrations trying to get answers,

1010
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 1: you can put that to a side and grieve and

1011
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 1: feel the emotion that you need to feel for the

1012
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 1: loss of your daughter too.

1013
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 3: That it's one battle.

1014
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 1: And you said at the start you find it hard

1015
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 1: because you're just focusing on getting answers. You are going

1016
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:27,839
Speaker 1: to get answers, and you keep doing what you're doing.

1017
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: And if people need to be accountable, will make them accountable.

1018
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 1: And I think if anyone's trying to fob people off,

1019
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 1: and I say this, what I've learned with victims of homicide,

1020
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 1: the families, they never give up, never give up.

1021
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:45,959
Speaker 3: And it's if.

1022
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: People are naively thinking of this will go away if

1023
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 1: we just do.

1024
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 2: And it's also amazing, Gary, like when you talk to people,

1025
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 2: you can see straight through them now too, you know

1026
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 2: That's what I'm seeing, you know, Like I can see

1027
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 2: straight through people, you know. I'm just I can just

1028
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,879
Speaker 2: see when the lies are there or they're not. You know. Yeah,

1029
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 2: It's just it's made me very clear of a lot

1030
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:12,839
Speaker 2: of things, you know, and where what I need to do.

1031
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 2: And yeah, I just hope I just hope that, you know,

1032
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 2: I do hope society sits with me and does fight

1033
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 2: with me, because nobody wants to feel like, yeah, I

1034
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 2: was only saying to Audrey's father yesterday, Audrey Audrey brought

1035
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 2: me a Christmas present, one of her Christmas presents that

1036
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 2: she bought for me. She gave me a ticket to

1037
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:42,920
Speaker 2: for hours to go to the zoo together. So and

1038
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 2: she bought a dad, a go cut and a go cut,

1039
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 2: and he was like, oh, it was really strange. She

1040
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 2: brought me one ticket. I thought I was going on

1041
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 2: my own, and then I didn't realize she bought is

1042
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 2: both one and we're both going to go out there.

1043
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 2: And that's what she was like, you know. And anyway,

1044
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 2: so he's not up to doing any of the social

1045
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 2: media or the walks. He just needs to deal with

1046
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 2: it his way, and I respect that. But I did

1047
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 2: say to him, so he didn't come on Sunday, and

1048
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 2: I did say to him, look, it's twelve months yesterday.

1049
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 2: Audrey gave me a zoo ticket. Would you spend the

1050
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 2: day with me? Can we go to the zoo? And

1051
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 2: he said of course. So we went to the zoo

1052
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 2: and unfortunately they were all asleep, so we didn't get

1053
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 2: to see anything. But it was really sweet because we

1054
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 2: get to the gate and I'd actually lost the ticket

1055
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 2: that Audrey gave me with all the move and moving

1056
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 2: and just he's lost his too, And we get to

1057
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 2: the gate and there's these two gentlemen, one gentleman and

1058
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 2: a lady that they were smiling at me as I

1059
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 2: walked past, and because so many people recognize me now,

1060
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure if they knew my story. And I

1061
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 2: smile and hi, and I was looking for Trevor and

1062
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 2: as I turned around, they both walked up to me

1063
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 2: and went, are you going into the zoo? And I

1064
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 2: said yes, and they said have you bought a ticket?

1065
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 2: And I said, oh, not as hip, We're just about

1066
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 2: to go and buy one. And he said, well, I've

1067
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 2: got VIPs. I would love to give you two three tickets.

1068
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 2: And Trevor and I just looked at each other and

1069
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 2: got tears in our eyes and we're just like, oh,

1070
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 2: you have no idea why we're here today, and so

1071
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 2: we kind of gave him a sure a little bit,

1072
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 2: but just said look Google and they were just like,

1073
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 2: you know, another two that now wanted to come on

1074
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 2: our journey and have locked on, you know, And it

1075
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 2: was just so beautiful, do you know what I mean?

1076
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 2: Like how everyone just keeps giving And that's what makes

1077
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 2: me keep fighting because the support, the support's been amazing.

1078
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: Well, I know you will keep fighting.

1079
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 3: I get that sense.

1080
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 1: We've spoken enough and I know well enough now and

1081
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 1: any way that I can help in anyway, and we'll

1082
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: tell the story and we support you, and we might

1083
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 1: be chatting him again down the track.

1084
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:04,439
Speaker 2: Get done, hopefully when we get get just to get

1085
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 2: some answers, yeah, and get some more answers, because as

1086
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 2: I said, look, you know, I've got nothing else. It's

1087
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 2: a fight for now. I'm numb, like I just it's

1088
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 2: just as I said to Trevor yesterday, We're talking about stuff,

1089
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 2: and I just said, it's just hollow, Like life's just hollow.

1090
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 2: He said, I feel exactly the same. You're like there's

1091
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 2: just no emotions, there's no feelings, there's no joy, there's

1092
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 2: no Yeah.

1093
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 3: So well, I think you're amazing from what you're doing.

1094
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 3: So hanging.

1095
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 2: She's worth every bit of it.

1096
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for that, Thank you, Thank you Carrier again