1 00:00:01,379 --> 00:00:09,619 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel James, and you're listening to 7am. The United 2 00:00:09,660 --> 00:00:12,700 Speaker 1: States is once again tightening its grip on Cuba. New 3 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,540 Speaker 1: travel and economic restrictions are adding to a brutal oil 4 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: blockade that has already pushed the country deeper into crisis, 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:24,300 Speaker 1: leaving Cuba increasingly isolated both politically and economically. But behind 6 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: the decades of hostility between Washington and Havana, there's a 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: human cost that can be easy to lose sight of. 8 00:00:30,770 --> 00:00:33,970 Speaker 1: Power cuts stretch through the night, food and medicine are scarce, 9 00:00:34,490 --> 00:00:38,450 Speaker 1: and millions of people are struggling with water shortages. Today, 10 00:00:38,790 --> 00:00:43,110 Speaker 1: SBS reporter for Dateline, Colin Kosier, takes us inside Cuba 11 00:00:43,190 --> 00:00:46,690 Speaker 1: where he travelled undercover to document what life has become 12 00:00:46,710 --> 00:00:49,330 Speaker 1: for the people caught up in an age-old power struggle. 13 00:00:53,950 --> 00:00:55,510 Speaker 2: It's Tuesday, October 6th. 14 00:01:00,970 --> 00:01:03,270 Speaker 1: Colin, we don't hear a lot about what's going on 15 00:01:03,390 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: in Cuba from inside the country because foreign journalists aren't welcome. 16 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 2: There right now. 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: So first off, tell us how you managed to get 18 00:01:12,300 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: in and stay undercover as you reported. 19 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:19,300 Speaker 2: So I went to Cuba pretending to be a tourist. 20 00:01:20,050 --> 00:01:23,270 Speaker 2: Dateline is normally at minimum a two-person crew, a reporter 21 00:01:23,310 --> 00:01:27,229 Speaker 2: and a camera person. But in this instance, because access 22 00:01:27,250 --> 00:01:30,850 Speaker 2: for foreign journalists is so highly restricted, I went, under 23 00:01:30,890 --> 00:01:34,310 Speaker 2: the guise of a tourist, filming purely on my telephone, 24 00:01:34,510 --> 00:01:38,290 Speaker 2: which meant I didn't have the normal big camera, microphones, 25 00:01:38,370 --> 00:01:41,990 Speaker 2: tripods that I would normally use. On the plus side, 26 00:01:42,010 --> 00:01:45,370 Speaker 2: it was wonderfully unencumbered. It meant I could just kind 27 00:01:45,390 --> 00:01:50,110 Speaker 2: of walk around Havana and talk to people in a 28 00:01:50,130 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 2: very casual, low-key way. 29 00:01:52,950 --> 00:01:55,710 Speaker 1: We know that Trump's oil blockade in the aftermath of 30 00:01:55,730 --> 00:02:00,150 Speaker 1: his intervention in Venezuela has made life incredibly difficult there. 31 00:02:00,710 --> 00:02:04,190 Speaker 1: Can you describe what happened and the impact it's actually 32 00:02:04,250 --> 00:02:05,810 Speaker 1: having on the people of Cuba? 33 00:02:06,170 --> 00:02:06,410 Speaker 3: Sure. 34 00:02:07,070 --> 00:02:10,460 Speaker 2: I'll actually take a small step back. I mean, Cuba 35 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,660 Speaker 2: used to be reliant on the Soviet Union, but after 36 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: the end of the Cold War, it then became very 37 00:02:16,060 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 2: reliant on Venezuelan oil. 38 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:23,839 Speaker 4: The United States Armed Forces... conducted an extraordinary military operation 39 00:02:24,660 --> 00:02:30,310 Speaker 4: in the capital of Venezuela to bring outlaw dictator Nicolas 40 00:02:30,530 --> 00:02:31,810 Speaker 4: Maduro to justice. 41 00:02:32,090 --> 00:02:37,250 Speaker 2: When the U.S. captured the Venezuelan president, Nicolas Maduro, in January, 42 00:02:37,970 --> 00:02:42,070 Speaker 2: Trump saw to it that that oil supply was essentially 43 00:02:42,290 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: turned off from Venezuela. And he also pressured other oil 44 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 2: supplying countries like Mexico through tariffs to not supply Cuba. 45 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,730 Speaker 5: Tonight, the president also threatening tariffs on any country selling 46 00:02:56,930 --> 00:03:00,050 Speaker 5: oil to Cuba, a move putting pressure directly on Mexico 47 00:03:00,130 --> 00:03:03,930 Speaker 5: and its president, Claudia Scheinbaum. Mexico being the only economic 48 00:03:03,970 --> 00:03:05,030 Speaker 5: lifeline left for Cuba. 49 00:03:05,050 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 2: In essence, the oil tap was turned off. Russia did 50 00:03:09,940 --> 00:03:13,910 Speaker 2: supply one shipment of oil earlier in the year. And 51 00:03:13,950 --> 00:03:17,290 Speaker 2: the country does produce some oil, but by all accounts, 52 00:03:17,530 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 2: it doesn't even meet half of its own needs. So 53 00:03:21,340 --> 00:03:24,419 Speaker 2: the place essentially ran out of fuel. It should be 54 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: said that a lot of the problems that Cuba is 55 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 2: experiencing now were kind of in place before. This oil blockade, however, 56 00:03:33,419 --> 00:03:35,100 Speaker 2: was more a nail in the coffin. 57 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: And so when you're roaming the streets of Havana, what 58 00:03:39,580 --> 00:03:41,970 Speaker 1: impact is that having on the people that live there? 59 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:42,990 Speaker 1: What's life like? 60 00:03:43,950 --> 00:03:46,290 Speaker 2: So the first thing that I noticed was a lack 61 00:03:46,330 --> 00:03:51,940 Speaker 2: of cars on the street. There were some cars, but 62 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,300 Speaker 2: just hardly any. The second thing I noticed was a 63 00:03:56,540 --> 00:04:01,250 Speaker 2: lack of tourists. Havana is a beautiful old city, clearly 64 00:04:01,310 --> 00:04:05,550 Speaker 2: geared towards tourism, and I honestly felt like the only 65 00:04:05,590 --> 00:04:08,730 Speaker 2: foreign visitor in the whole city. Why is everyone lining 66 00:04:08,830 --> 00:04:13,690 Speaker 2: up for bread? The other thing you notice walking around 67 00:04:14,030 --> 00:04:17,690 Speaker 2: is the rubbish. They keep the touristy areas kind of clean, 68 00:04:17,710 --> 00:04:20,430 Speaker 2: but move not far into the back streets and you 69 00:04:20,450 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: will just see household waste strewn everywhere. The city apparently 70 00:04:29,300 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 2: doesn't have the fuel for the dump trucks to pick 71 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,219 Speaker 2: it up regularly, so it just piles up in the streets. 72 00:04:35,810 --> 00:04:39,380 Speaker 2: It stinks. You would see people picking over it. It 73 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 2: was gross, actually. So as well as there being hardly 74 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,030 Speaker 2: any cars on the road and rubbish everywhere, the power 75 00:04:47,110 --> 00:04:50,590 Speaker 2: outages are the big one. The blackouts, people told me, 76 00:04:50,730 --> 00:04:55,070 Speaker 2: lasted 16, 20, sometimes more hours a day. There have 77 00:04:55,100 --> 00:05:00,860 Speaker 2: actually been three nationwide outages this year alone. And what 78 00:05:00,900 --> 00:05:03,580 Speaker 2: that means is when you walk around at night, it's dark. 79 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:08,130 Speaker 2: It's really dark. And you would hear the occasional generator 80 00:05:08,150 --> 00:05:10,990 Speaker 2: that might be powering a shop here or an apartment there. 81 00:05:11,029 --> 00:05:14,730 Speaker 2: And when you look in through people's windows, you see 82 00:05:14,770 --> 00:05:19,090 Speaker 2: these little battery-powered lights. But it was quite something to 83 00:05:19,170 --> 00:05:24,530 Speaker 2: see a city so blacked out. And that's most nights. 84 00:05:24,990 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: And it's been that way all year. The other thing 85 00:05:32,339 --> 00:05:35,690 Speaker 2: that affects people is the lack of water. It's not 86 00:05:35,710 --> 00:05:38,870 Speaker 2: that there's no water in Cuba, but the city is 87 00:05:38,910 --> 00:05:41,490 Speaker 2: having trouble through a lack of fuel from running the 88 00:05:41,529 --> 00:05:45,150 Speaker 2: main water lines. And then at individual houses, they need 89 00:05:45,310 --> 00:05:48,050 Speaker 2: electricity for their little pumps to get water into the 90 00:05:48,110 --> 00:05:51,500 Speaker 2: little blue tubs that kind of dot every rooftop. So 91 00:05:51,860 --> 00:05:54,300 Speaker 2: locals told me that more often than not, you turn 92 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 2: the tap on and no water comes out. So you 93 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 2: would often see, I would see people wheeling buckets of 94 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:05,690 Speaker 2: water down the street or little water deliveries happening, literally 95 00:06:05,790 --> 00:06:08,790 Speaker 2: buckets of water being walked into homes. Is that the. 96 00:06:08,750 --> 00:06:13,410 Speaker 1: Case for everyone there? Because also in the documentary, a 97 00:06:13,450 --> 00:06:17,620 Speaker 1: lot of people spoke about how That scenario actually isn't 98 00:06:17,700 --> 00:06:20,700 Speaker 1: being suffered by everyone. There are the rich that are 99 00:06:20,740 --> 00:06:23,659 Speaker 1: not suffering in the same way as the people on 100 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,219 Speaker 1: the street, which is an obvious thing worldwide. But can 101 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: you describe that double standard? 102 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, my hotel was 103 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,220 Speaker 2: quite fancy. It was one of the few that was 104 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 2: still open. It still had 24-hour electricity. It had air conditioning. 105 00:06:42,660 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 2: I had a lovely meal and it was surreal because 106 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,580 Speaker 2: at night I could see most of the city blacked 107 00:06:47,740 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 2: out and yet I was kind of living in luxury. 108 00:06:51,740 --> 00:06:57,690 Speaker 2: I went to a supermarket that stocked imported goods, kind 109 00:06:57,710 --> 00:06:59,970 Speaker 2: of like chocolates from Europe and juices and the like, 110 00:07:01,190 --> 00:07:04,650 Speaker 2: and the shop only took US dollars and euros. It 111 00:07:04,710 --> 00:07:08,490 Speaker 2: didn't even take the local currency. that shop would just 112 00:07:08,529 --> 00:07:12,590 Speaker 2: be inaccessible to most average Cubans. But I did see 113 00:07:12,630 --> 00:07:15,300 Speaker 2: people in there shopping, so clearly it's not everyone. 114 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: One of the most confronting scenes you filmed was that 115 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: of a 100-year-old woman who looked incredibly sick. Can you 116 00:07:22,500 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: just tell us about that scene? 117 00:07:24,540 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: So a lot of my reporting there was simply walking 118 00:07:27,490 --> 00:07:30,530 Speaker 2: the streets of Havana and talking to people. And in 119 00:07:30,550 --> 00:07:33,370 Speaker 2: this instance, I met a woman in her front door. 120 00:07:33,490 --> 00:07:33,950 Speaker 3: Hello. 121 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 2: We went down this little corridor. She opened the door 122 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:45,980 Speaker 2: into this small room. And this incredibly frail old woman 123 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 2: was just sitting there hunched over. I'm not even sure 124 00:07:48,900 --> 00:07:55,989 Speaker 2: if she recognized that I was there. The daughter explained 125 00:07:56,010 --> 00:07:59,630 Speaker 2: that she's 100 years old, that she's quite sick. She's 126 00:07:59,690 --> 00:08:03,730 Speaker 2: asthmatic and can't afford her medication. She's incontinent and they 127 00:08:03,770 --> 00:08:07,430 Speaker 2: can't afford the incontinence aids to help her. And she 128 00:08:07,490 --> 00:08:12,490 Speaker 2: said that the mother receives a pension that essentially amounts 129 00:08:12,510 --> 00:08:16,590 Speaker 2: to about $ 2, $ 2. 20 US dollars, which she equated to 130 00:08:16,610 --> 00:08:19,190 Speaker 2: the cost of a bottle of cooking oil. It was 131 00:08:19,210 --> 00:08:19,810 Speaker 2: quite confronting. 132 00:08:21,650 --> 00:08:24,330 Speaker 1: And the interview itself was kind of interrupted by neighbors, 133 00:08:24,450 --> 00:08:27,710 Speaker 1: wasn't it? So how hard is it to get people 134 00:08:27,750 --> 00:08:31,179 Speaker 1: to speak freely there at the moment? Because that's something 135 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:32,670 Speaker 1: that they can get into trouble for, isn't it? 136 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'd only been speaking to this woman for 137 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:41,210 Speaker 2: a few minutes when a neighbour interrupted us and told her, 138 00:08:41,450 --> 00:08:43,230 Speaker 2: in his words, that she was being dumb and that 139 00:08:43,250 --> 00:08:44,949 Speaker 2: it wasn't a good idea to speak with a foreigner 140 00:08:44,970 --> 00:08:51,770 Speaker 2: like myself. To her credit, she defended herself and said, no, 141 00:08:51,809 --> 00:08:55,140 Speaker 2: I'm not saying anything bad about the revolution, I'm just 142 00:08:55,380 --> 00:08:59,540 Speaker 2: telling this guy about my sick mother. But look, Cuba 143 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:05,569 Speaker 2: is an... authoritarian single party state where it's well-documented, speech 144 00:09:05,630 --> 00:09:08,870 Speaker 2: is not very free. There's not really a free and 145 00:09:08,890 --> 00:09:13,130 Speaker 2: independent press to speak of. And so, yeah, naturally in 146 00:09:13,150 --> 00:09:15,100 Speaker 2: that environment, people are guarded. 147 00:09:15,820 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 1: I was surprised. 148 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,740 Speaker 2: I didn't really see a heavy police presence, but I 149 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 2: was also told that they have this kind of neighborhood 150 00:09:22,860 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 2: watch system. It's called the CDR, the Committee for the 151 00:09:25,660 --> 00:09:28,990 Speaker 2: Defense of the Revolution, which kind of essentially works as 152 00:09:29,050 --> 00:09:30,270 Speaker 2: a dobbing your neighbor system. 153 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: So what sort of sense did you get from the 154 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: people that you spoke to about who's to blame for 155 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,740 Speaker 1: what's happening? Are they blaming Trump, Rubio, or their own 156 00:09:40,780 --> 00:09:41,540 Speaker 1: communist government? 157 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 2: Both, though it depended on who you spoke with. I 158 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,390 Speaker 2: spoke to an 87-year-old woman who, like everyone else, is 159 00:09:49,410 --> 00:09:52,430 Speaker 2: struggling with no power at home and hardly any water, 160 00:09:52,910 --> 00:09:55,809 Speaker 2: and she was a lifelong member of the Communist Party, 161 00:09:56,510 --> 00:09:59,189 Speaker 2: and she lays the blame squarely at the US and said, 162 00:09:59,210 --> 00:10:03,380 Speaker 2: you cannot blame... the cuban state but when you speak 163 00:10:03,420 --> 00:10:05,719 Speaker 2: with young people like i did they told me that 164 00:10:05,940 --> 00:10:08,450 Speaker 2: yes there are these external pressures that are making life 165 00:10:08,490 --> 00:10:11,610 Speaker 2: difficult but they pointed to what they called the internal 166 00:10:11,650 --> 00:10:15,910 Speaker 2: blockade meaning the uh the the internal economic mismanagement and 167 00:10:15,950 --> 00:10:17,790 Speaker 2: problems uh from the cuban state. 168 00:10:21,290 --> 00:10:25,530 Speaker 1: Coming up, as Washington ramps up pressure on Cuba, how 169 00:10:25,580 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: much further can its people be pushed? 170 00:10:35,100 --> 00:10:39,219 Speaker 4: Communism will never be coming to America, but freedom will 171 00:10:39,260 --> 00:10:41,540 Speaker 4: be coming to Cuba and safety and security. 172 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,350 Speaker 1: Just over a week ago, the Cuban delegation walked out 173 00:10:44,370 --> 00:10:47,610 Speaker 1: of the UN General Assembly after Donald Trump said that Cuba, 174 00:10:47,990 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: which he called a failed state, will soon be released 175 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:55,309 Speaker 1: from communism. Is that another threat? Because there's been speculation 176 00:10:55,350 --> 00:10:58,329 Speaker 1: for some time now that Cuba could be next on, 177 00:10:58,710 --> 00:11:00,490 Speaker 1: for want of a better term, the US hit list. 178 00:11:00,970 --> 00:11:03,429 Speaker 2: Trump has more or less said it, that after Venezuela, 179 00:11:03,630 --> 00:11:05,270 Speaker 2: after Iran, that Cuba is next. 180 00:11:05,290 --> 00:11:07,390 Speaker 4: They built this great military. 181 00:11:07,429 --> 00:11:09,350 Speaker 2: I said, you'll never have to use it, but sometimes 182 00:11:09,370 --> 00:11:10,089 Speaker 2: you have to use it. 183 00:11:10,990 --> 00:11:12,310 Speaker 4: And Cuba's next, by the way. 184 00:11:12,350 --> 00:11:15,530 Speaker 2: But Pretend I didn't say that. Yeah, he's been saying 185 00:11:15,730 --> 00:11:19,950 Speaker 2: this all year and it's been backed up by the 186 00:11:19,970 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 2: fuel embargo and these extra sanctions. Is it a failed state? Look, 187 00:11:26,100 --> 00:11:29,220 Speaker 2: I'm no political scientist, but I don't think it meets 188 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,860 Speaker 2: the criteria of a failed state. You know, it still 189 00:11:32,140 --> 00:11:36,500 Speaker 2: has the rule of law, still has some state institutions 190 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 2: functioning poorly. I think what you can say is... It's 191 00:11:42,860 --> 00:11:46,780 Speaker 2: in an economic and social crisis. That's not in debate. 192 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,780 Speaker 2: And none of this is new for Cubans. In the 193 00:11:50,820 --> 00:11:53,910 Speaker 2: last six years alone, it's thought that, and this is 194 00:11:53,929 --> 00:11:57,890 Speaker 2: the conservative estimate, that at least 1.6 million people have 195 00:11:57,950 --> 00:12:02,290 Speaker 2: left the country. That's roughly one in 10 people. Locals 196 00:12:02,330 --> 00:12:05,530 Speaker 2: told me that since COVID, things have been very, very 197 00:12:05,570 --> 00:12:09,350 Speaker 2: bad and the place never recovered. And this fuel blockade 198 00:12:09,390 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 2: this year that really turned the oil tap off and 199 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:17,579 Speaker 2: meant that there's been rolling nightly blackouts and a lack 200 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 2: of water at home and all the other associated problems 201 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,460 Speaker 2: has really just been more of a final straw. 202 00:12:24,110 --> 00:12:26,910 Speaker 1: Was there a sense of inevitability while you were there 203 00:12:26,970 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: that the US would actually do something sort of more 204 00:12:31,580 --> 00:12:35,140 Speaker 1: serious when it comes to actually taking over the country 205 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: and invading Cuba? Was there a sense that that is 206 00:12:38,450 --> 00:12:40,710 Speaker 1: on the horizon or are people just taking things one 207 00:12:40,730 --> 00:12:41,329 Speaker 1: day at a time? 208 00:12:42,090 --> 00:12:44,729 Speaker 2: One day at a time. I think the more immediate 209 00:12:44,770 --> 00:12:48,670 Speaker 2: problems people have, can I charge my mobile phone at 210 00:12:48,710 --> 00:12:51,170 Speaker 2: home tonight? Will water come out of the tap? What 211 00:12:51,210 --> 00:12:52,250 Speaker 2: am I going to eat and how am I going 212 00:12:52,270 --> 00:12:55,390 Speaker 2: to cook it? Saying that, I did ask people, what 213 00:12:55,410 --> 00:12:59,270 Speaker 2: do you make of Trump's comments? And by and large, 214 00:12:59,290 --> 00:13:02,420 Speaker 2: they were all dismissed. Most people thought he won't go 215 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:08,079 Speaker 2: ahead with anything more serious. But, and I guess they're 216 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,579 Speaker 2: just used to decades of US sanctions. It's kind of 217 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 2: not really new in that regard. 218 00:13:14,220 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 6: I'm taking one further step to protect the dollar. As 219 00:13:17,380 --> 00:13:22,179 Speaker 6: a temporary measure, I am today imposing an additional tax 220 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,609 Speaker 6: of 10% on goods imported into the United States. 221 00:13:27,250 --> 00:13:29,429 Speaker 1: There is a history of US leaders lashing out that 222 00:13:29,450 --> 00:13:32,010 Speaker 1: dates back to Nixon and Kennedy. 223 00:13:32,630 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 6: All ships of any kind bound for Cuba, from whatever 224 00:13:36,100 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 6: nation or port, will, if found to contain cargoes of 225 00:13:39,820 --> 00:13:41,339 Speaker 6: offensive weapons, be turned back. 226 00:13:41,700 --> 00:13:44,750 Speaker 1: How does this current situation compare to those times, though? 227 00:13:45,010 --> 00:13:47,790 Speaker 2: Look, I wasn't around in the Kennedy and Nixon era, 228 00:13:47,970 --> 00:13:50,109 Speaker 2: but I did speak to some older people. You know, 229 00:13:50,530 --> 00:13:53,390 Speaker 2: I spoke to, so Marta, the older woman I spoke to, 230 00:13:53,510 --> 00:13:56,380 Speaker 2: she remembers what's called the special period, which was when 231 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:01,340 Speaker 2: the Soviet Union collapsed and there were, it was another crisis. 232 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,750 Speaker 2: There was hardly any fuel, food was short. She remembers 233 00:14:04,790 --> 00:14:07,490 Speaker 2: that being bad. She acknowledges this is bad. She didn't 234 00:14:07,530 --> 00:14:09,890 Speaker 2: really kind of rate it as one was worse than 235 00:14:09,910 --> 00:14:16,890 Speaker 2: the other. But a 65-year-old tobacco farmer I spoke to 236 00:14:17,450 --> 00:14:20,310 Speaker 2: said that in his view, this really is the worst 237 00:14:20,370 --> 00:14:22,489 Speaker 2: crisis that he has experienced. 238 00:14:23,290 --> 00:14:25,810 Speaker 1: The US aside, what is the government going to do 239 00:14:25,850 --> 00:14:28,330 Speaker 1: to get the country back on its feet? Is that 240 00:14:28,350 --> 00:14:31,210 Speaker 1: something that people are demanding? Is there sentiment for change 241 00:14:31,250 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: within the country itself against its own government? 242 00:14:34,490 --> 00:14:38,950 Speaker 2: There were protests, big protests back in 2021 that were 243 00:14:38,990 --> 00:14:43,620 Speaker 2: quite harshly put down. And following that, there was the 244 00:14:43,650 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: mass exodus of 1.6 million minimum people. Everyone's gone. Everyone's gone. 245 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:59,140 Speaker 2: That kind of would be agitating for change. You know, 246 00:14:59,700 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 2: a man I spoke with, a very young man who 247 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,460 Speaker 2: was fishing for his dinner, told me that One of 248 00:15:04,500 --> 00:15:07,420 Speaker 2: his neighbours is facing 20 years in jail for banging 249 00:15:07,460 --> 00:15:12,500 Speaker 2: pots and pans and demanding electricity. And another young woman 250 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 2: I spoke to told me bluntly she doesn't have any hope. 251 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 2: She loves her country, but doesn't have any hope. It's 252 00:15:19,140 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 2: quite grim. 253 00:15:21,350 --> 00:15:23,750 Speaker 1: Well, it's a fascinating insight into a forgotten part of 254 00:15:23,770 --> 00:15:25,930 Speaker 1: the world in many senses. Colin, thank you for your 255 00:15:25,950 --> 00:15:27,150 Speaker 1: work and thanks for speaking with us. 256 00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:28,090 Speaker 2: Thank you, Daniel. 257 00:15:33,090 --> 00:15:38,230 Speaker 1: And Dateline's Cuba Inside the Blockade airs tonight, 9.30 on SBS. 258 00:15:38,750 --> 00:15:41,150 Speaker 1: Or you can stream it on SBS On Demand. 259 00:15:58,090 --> 00:16:01,430 Speaker 3: Also in the news, former Bachelor star and fitness influencer 260 00:16:01,550 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 3: Sam Wood will remain in custody until a bail application 261 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,660 Speaker 3: hearing on Thursday after being charged with domestic violence offences, 262 00:16:08,750 --> 00:16:12,970 Speaker 3: including strangulation. Wood's lawyer says he'll defend the charges after 263 00:16:12,990 --> 00:16:16,810 Speaker 3: being arrested following an alleged incident in Noosa on Saturday night. 264 00:16:17,390 --> 00:16:20,570 Speaker 3: Wood has been stood down from his fitness business, 28 265 00:16:20,570 --> 00:16:23,700 Speaker 3: by Sam Wood. He and his wife, Susanna Wood, have 266 00:16:23,780 --> 00:16:26,140 Speaker 3: posted that it's a difficult time and that they're working 267 00:16:26,260 --> 00:16:29,340 Speaker 3: through it as a family as they cooperate with authorities. 268 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,180 Speaker 3: And Israeli media is reporting that a fly-Jubai pilot who 269 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,340 Speaker 3: allegedly attacked his colleague on a flight to Israel had 270 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,140 Speaker 3: planned to crash the plane in Tel Aviv. The man 271 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 3: is being grilled by authorities in the United Arab Emirates 272 00:16:42,380 --> 00:16:45,420 Speaker 3: and reportedly told them he'd planned to kill his co-pilot, 273 00:16:45,780 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 3: then continue flying normally to Israel before crashing. There are 274 00:16:49,660 --> 00:16:52,770 Speaker 3: conflicting reports about whether his final target was Tel Aviv's 275 00:16:52,850 --> 00:16:56,970 Speaker 3: main airport or a block of skyscrapers near Israel's military headquarters. 276 00:16:57,940 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 2: I'm Ruby Jones. This is 7am. Thanks for listening.