Speaker 1: From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven AM.
Speaker 1: As wildfires tore through some of LA's most affluent neighborhoods,
Speaker 1: burning down mansions owned by celebrities, some wondered if it
Speaker 1: might be a turning point in how seriously we take
Speaker 1: the climate crisis, but climate scientist Joel Gergis wasn't sharing
Speaker 1: that hope. Instead, what she saw made her angry that
Speaker 1: we seem more interested in the heartache of the wealthy
Speaker 1: while the effects of climate change continue to disproportionately affect
Speaker 1: the poor, and that as Californians lose their homes and
Speaker 1: their lives, a climate deny it has entered the White House.
Speaker 1: Now she's turning her attention to the next election here
Speaker 1: in Australia, where she says we have a choice to
Speaker 1: make about how comfortable we are being complicit today. Climate
Speaker 1: scientist and contributor to The Saturday Paper, Joel Gergis on
Speaker 1: why the next election is a fork in the road
Speaker 1: for our climate. It's Friday, January twenty fourth, So Joel,
Speaker 1: I thought we could start by talking about the wildfires
Speaker 1: that we saw in California recently, as you watched them unfold,
Speaker 1: as you watched the suburbs of La Burn and saw
Speaker 1: people and animals dying.
Speaker 2: What were you thinking, Well, so many things were running
Speaker 2: through my mind, I guess as an Australian, my mind
Speaker 2: went immediately back to the memories of that horrendous black
Speaker 2: summer bushfire season of twenty nineteen twenty twenty, and that
Speaker 2: was when we saw close to a quarter of our
Speaker 2: temperate forest burn in a single bushfire season.
Speaker 3: We were warned of catastrophic conditions and right now there
Speaker 3: are seven fires burning at emergency level. A powerful Southerly
Speaker 3: is currently moving through, making can additions for firefighters even
Speaker 3: more chaotic.
Speaker 2: You know, over half of our ancient rainforests we incinerated
Speaker 2: during this event and over three million.
Speaker 4: Animals were killed or displaced.
Speaker 2: And even during that event, the choler was listed as
Speaker 2: an endangered species in New South Wales. And so it
Speaker 2: was one of those things that that was a real
Speaker 2: pivotal moment for me where I realized that what used
Speaker 2: to be considered an extreme outline in today's climate will
Speaker 2: become average conditions in the future. And so it's been
Speaker 2: a real wake up call to me as a scientist
Speaker 2: that I need to be doing more to warn the
Speaker 2: public about the threats we're facing, not only here in
Speaker 2: Australia but also around the world. In terms of the
Speaker 2: Californian wildfires. Really it's a textbook example of what we
Speaker 2: can expect with a warming planet.
Speaker 4: So California experience.
Speaker 2: It's hot, a summer on record, and a severe drought
Speaker 2: that saw just four millimeters of rainfall since October last year,
Speaker 2: and so basically the landscape just burnt because everything.
Speaker 4: Had dried out, and it burned all the way to.
Speaker 2: The coastline, which is pretty phenomenal if you stop and
Speaker 2: you think about and during winter.
Speaker 5: Of course, all tens of thousands are still under evacuation
Speaker 5: orders tonight, with just some residents allowed back just now
Speaker 5: seeing the devastation firsthand, and the fight is far from over,
Speaker 5: Sirius Santa Anna. Winds are forecast and for tomorrow bringing
Speaker 5: risk of large fire growth.
Speaker 2: It's really just a sign of an overheating planet. It's
Speaker 2: also a sign of what we can expect. But it
Speaker 2: does give me chills as an Australian scientist watching these
Speaker 2: events unfolding, because I know what it means for us
Speaker 2: here at home.
Speaker 1: And as that crisis was unfolding in California News broke
Speaker 1: that we've just experienced Earth's warmest year on record twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four, So, I mean, that's obviously related to the fires.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me about why it is that we're
Speaker 1: seeing fires on this scale right now?
Speaker 2: So basically just comes back down to humanity's relentless burning
Speaker 2: of fossil fuels. So that's the burning of coal, oil,
Speaker 2: and gas that will continue to drive up temperatures until.
Speaker 4: We reach net zero emissions.
Speaker 2: So really, until we do that, there's going to be
Speaker 2: no letup of this warming trend. And in fact, as
Speaker 2: you said, while these fires were burning, leading scientific organizations
Speaker 2: around the world had confirmed that twenty twenty four was
Speaker 2: the year's warmest year on record. And also another interesting
Speaker 2: fact in there was that the top ten warmest years
Speaker 2: have all occurred since twenty fifteen, so really the last
Speaker 2: decade has been the warmest in our planet's history. And
Speaker 2: in fact, twenty twenty four was the first year that
Speaker 2: global temperatures have exceeded the Paris Agreements goal of one
Speaker 2: point five degrees. And the real problem with this is
Speaker 2: that global greenhouse gas concentrations reached record highs last year,
Speaker 2: so there's no clear decline in sight, and in fact, methane,
Speaker 2: which is a really powerful heat trapping gas that's around
Speaker 2: eighty times more potent than carbon dioxide, has risen really sharply,
Speaker 2: and it's got a lot of scientists worried because of
Speaker 2: its role in triggering periods of abrupt climate change in
Speaker 2: the Earth history. And the other issue here is that
Speaker 2: many countries, including Australia, are currently promoting methane or natural
Speaker 2: gas as a transition fuel, with no scientifically credible plan
Speaker 2: to transition away from any time before twenty fifty. So
Speaker 2: until we get serious about turning the fossil fuel tap off,
Speaker 2: the planet is just going to continue to warm, and
Speaker 2: so it's going to get ugly.
Speaker 1: And the wildfires while they were burning, they dominated the
Speaker 1: news cycle, and that was, of course because of the
Speaker 1: scale of them, but it was also because of the
Speaker 1: people who were affected, the celebrities who are losing their homes.
Speaker 1: And I just wonder what you made of the fact
Speaker 1: that this attracted the attention it did compared to other
Speaker 1: climate related crises that have happened in other parts of
Speaker 1: the world on a regular basis.
Speaker 2: I started to find myself getting a little bit angry.
Speaker 2: Actually when I was watching the media, because I guess
Speaker 2: this uncomfortable reality we need to face is that Western
Speaker 2: media is more interested in covering the losses and the
Speaker 2: heartache of white, rich people rather than those of dark skinned,
Speaker 2: poorer people.
Speaker 4: Celebrities are speaking out as devastating wildfires spread through southern California.
Speaker 4: The fast moving.
Speaker 2: Fires Lucy neighborhoods its home to the likes of Reese Witherspoon.
Speaker 1: Ban Affleck Toma Haggs all were evacuated.
Speaker 6: We're getting word, you know, as the hours go by,
Speaker 6: of more celebrities who have, yes, actually not just been
Speaker 6: threat of losing their property, but have actually lost homes.
Speaker 2: The Californian wildfires attracted a lot of attention because of
Speaker 2: the fact that I guess you know, some of the
Speaker 2: most iconic areas of America were being impacted by the fires.
Speaker 4: And the Western meat is also really obsessed with Hollywood culture.
Speaker 2: So as we've seen in the recent coverage, journalists have
Speaker 2: this inane fixation on reporting news of Burt mansions of
Speaker 2: Hollywood celebrities like Billy Crystal or Mel Gibson or Paris Hilton,
Speaker 2: instead of making that connection between how fossil fuels are
Speaker 2: driving climate change and how that's destabilizing our world in
Speaker 2: the form of these really extreme events. And around about
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty thousand people in LA were ordered
Speaker 2: to evacuate, but there was no mention made of the
Speaker 2: over twenty million people that were internally displaced because of
Speaker 2: weather disasters in twenty twenty three. So that's the year
Speaker 2: where we have the latest figures, and so I'm pretty
Speaker 2: sure most of those people did not have the luxury
Speaker 2: of paying private firefighters to save their homes. And it
Speaker 2: really highlights the inequalities entrenched in this issue and how
Speaker 2: surreal this whole situation has become.
Speaker 1: And there was this sentiment that I heard from some
Speaker 1: people that perhaps this crisis in California, because of all
Speaker 1: the attention that it's receiving, would actually end up somehow
Speaker 1: changing the course of our response to the climate crisis,
Speaker 1: that it might raise enough attention somehow for people I
Speaker 1: suppose to take it more seriously. Is that naive?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I saw that too on social media, and I would
Speaker 2: say it's probably a case of just wishful thinking. I mean,
Speaker 2: as a climate scientist, it's really hard not to feel
Speaker 2: cynical when people say that perhaps an event like the
Speaker 2: la fires are going to be the moment where the
Speaker 2: world finally wakes up to the reality of climate change.
Speaker 2: And the truth is that this is just another event
Speaker 2: that people will eventually tire of and the media circus
Speaker 2: will move on. And the reality also here is that
Speaker 2: the climate change denier Donald Trump was sworn into the
Speaker 2: White House this week and a time where the world
Speaker 2: is facing just an unprecedented confluence of global disasters.
Speaker 4: The new US.
Speaker 2: President is expected to pull the world's second largest greenhouse
Speaker 2: gasimit out of the Paris Agreement, and he's been bragging
Speaker 2: about his pro fossil fuel use in terms of his policy.
Speaker 4: Of drill, baby drill, He's not the only one.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 2: Governments still plan to produce more than double the amount
Speaker 2: of fossil fuels in twenty thirty that is consistent with
Speaker 2: limiting warming to one point five degrees. So coal production
Speaker 2: is expected to continue until then, with oil and gas
Speaker 2: extending out to at least twenty fifty. So in my life,
Speaker 2: I view things that are going to get a lot
Speaker 2: worse before they get better. And really it's a case
Speaker 2: of our political leaders and our business leaders having the
Speaker 2: courage to put a price on carbon and remove the
Speaker 2: fossil fuel subsidies that are blocking the renewable energy transition.
Speaker 2: And until then, we're just going to see these worsening
Speaker 2: weather extremes that are going to upend our lives and
Speaker 2: reconfigure life on the planet.
Speaker 1: After the break, what will it take for Australian leaders
Speaker 1: to turn off the fossil fuel tap? Joelle, let's talk
Speaker 1: a little more about our political leaders here in Australia,
Speaker 1: because we are of course getting close to another federal election.
Speaker 1: So what do you make of the debate that we're
Speaker 1: hearing around climate at the moment and whether it's urgent enough.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that the climates is still alive
Speaker 2: in Australia, but we have come a long way and
Speaker 2: I do think that the next federal election is a
Speaker 2: really fateful fork in the road for our nation. So
Speaker 2: we really have a clear choice between leaders who are
Speaker 2: trying to keep the country on track to decarbonize our
Speaker 2: economy and those who want to lead us down our
Speaker 2: nuclear power dead end. So the fact of the matter
Speaker 2: is is that renewables are the cheapest and the cleanest
Speaker 2: form of energy and it can be deployed really, really quickly.
Speaker 2: We don't have to wait until the twenty forties or
Speaker 2: twenty fifties for nuclear power, because Australia actually is the
Speaker 2: sunniest consonant on the planet, and yet only eighteen percent
Speaker 2: of our electricity is generated by solar, so that is
Speaker 2: an enormous economic advantage that we're currently squandering. And while
Speaker 2: the Labor government has made some good progress on renewables,
Speaker 2: so currently there's nearly forty percent of Australia's electricity is
Speaker 2: now powered by clean energy sources. But the government runs
Speaker 2: the risk of undoing all of this good work by
Speaker 2: continuing to support fossil fuel production.
Speaker 1: And so do you think that there are areas or
Speaker 1: ways of responding to the climate crisis that are still untapped,
Speaker 1: things that we could or should be doing that would
Speaker 1: provide a roadmap FRAWD and some hope in terms of
Speaker 1: combating what's ahead.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean there's a range of scientific agencies
Speaker 2: that have shown that it's possible to reduce global emissions
Speaker 2: between fifty and eighty percent by twenty thirty using technologies
Speaker 2: that are available right now. And even the CSO has
Speaker 2: shown that the fossil fuel intensive nation like Australia could
Speaker 2: Harvard's emissions by twenty thirty using existing technology. So in
Speaker 2: that report they identify the decarbonization of the electricity sector
Speaker 2: as the way to unlock Australia's clean energy transition in
Speaker 2: other areas like green manufacturing and electrified.
Speaker 4: Transport and things like that.
Speaker 2: So really we just need this new generation of leaders
Speaker 2: to foster that political, social, and economic environment. We need
Speaker 2: to incentivize the clean energy transition and really, once the
Speaker 2: benefits of the green economy start to be realized, we
Speaker 2: won't look back.
Speaker 4: Our only regret will be that we didn't start any sooner.
Speaker 1: And as you say, though the current Labor government is
Speaker 1: still committed to mining fossil fuels, that doesn't seem likely
Speaker 1: to change. How do you envision a way of I
Speaker 1: suppose putting pressure on that.
Speaker 2: Well, this is where I feel that how we vote
Speaker 2: really really matters, and that Australia's next federal election is
Speaker 2: a really faithful fork in the road for our nation.
Speaker 2: And the more that we understand that as voters we
Speaker 2: can influence our political leadership into doing better. So if
Speaker 2: the electorate really wants to see real climate action, because
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes there's a lot of hollow words when
Speaker 2: we talk about climate change, in climate action being this
Speaker 2: in citious phraser that I don't love actually, but I
Speaker 2: think it comes down to people being really aware of
Speaker 2: the connection between the burning of fossil fuels. So whether
Speaker 2: those fossil fuels are burned here within Australia's borders or
Speaker 2: overseas with our trading partners, the atmosphere doesn't really care
Speaker 2: where those fossil fuels originated.
Speaker 4: The fact is is they pollute the environment.
Speaker 2: They're driving up temperatures and the concentration of greenhouse gases
Speaker 2: in the atmosphere is leading to more and more extreme weather.
Speaker 2: And so you know, this is the time to not
Speaker 2: stand on the sidelines. We really have to engage in
Speaker 2: our political conversation and what we do as australiager really matters.
Speaker 2: As the third largest exporter of fossil fuels, what we
Speaker 2: do in terms of our ethical.
Speaker 4: Stance and our moral stance on this really matters. Joelle,
Speaker 4: Thank you for your time, Oh pleasure, Ruby, thanks a lot.
Speaker 1: Also in the news today, one of Australia's biggest music festivals,
Speaker 1: Splendor in the Grass, has been canceled for the second
Speaker 1: year in a row. The festival previously announced it would
Speaker 1: be canceling the twenty twenty four event, just weeks after
Speaker 1: it announced its lineup with Kylie Minogue as the headliner
Speaker 1: on social media. Splendor in the Grass organizers have now
Speaker 1: posted twenty twenty five won't be going ahead either, but
Speaker 1: we'll be back when the time is right. And a
Speaker 1: huge foul smelling flower has bloomed in Sydney and will
Speaker 1: emit its stench for twenty four hours only. The rare
Speaker 1: and endangered flower, known as the corpse flower and nicknamed Patricia,
Speaker 1: is on display at the Royal Botanic Gardens. Corpse flowers
Speaker 1: are usually found in the West Sumatran rainforests and there
Speaker 1: are estimates that there are only one thousand specimens left
Speaker 1: in the wild. Seven Am is a daily show from
Speaker 1: Schwartz Media and The Saturday Paper. It's made by Atticus Basto,
Speaker 1: Shane Anderson, Chris Engate, Daniel James, Eric Jensen, Ruby Jones,
Speaker 1: Sarah McVie, Travis Evans and Zolnfetcho. Our theme music is
Speaker 1: by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of envelop Portio. See
Speaker 1: you next week.