1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Hello, welcome, Thanks for listening to the show. Thanks for 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: downloading it using a precious data. This is better than Yesterday. 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: It's a podcast that is full of useful tools and 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: useful conversations to help make your day to day better 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: than yesterday. Every week since twenty thirteen, Thank you for listening. 6 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: My name's Osha Ginsburg. I am a guy who once 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: countered roses on television in a wish bree voice and 8 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: broke the hearts of Australian singers with hopes and dreams 9 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: of fame and stardom in their eyes. I also write books, 10 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: and I'm a dad and a stepdad and a husband 11 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: to a varying degrees of success. And I'm here with 12 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: you right now, so thanks for listening. I've taken a 13 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: break over the summer, so as the team, so are you. 14 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: But I didn't want to leave you with that an episode, 15 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: so over this time we are getting the best and 16 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: most well received and most highly downloaded episodes that we've 17 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: had all year and giving them another run around the racetrack. 18 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: And today this one is well worth it. Doctor Billy 19 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: Garvey's episode is of the biggest ones of the year. 20 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: You should know who he is. If you don't well, 21 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: how exciting for you you get to find out who 22 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: doctor Billy Garvey yesterday. He's a senior developmental pediatrician. He's 23 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: got over twenty years experience. He's got a PhD in 24 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: supporting child development and the founder of the social enterprise 25 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: Guiding Growing Minds. His brilliant book, which I cannot recommend 26 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: enough is called Ten Things I Wish You Knew about 27 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: Your Child's Mental Health. 28 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 2: He's got a podcast himself. 29 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 1: It's called pop Culture Parenting and one of the best 30 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: community one of the best communicators on parenting and mental 31 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: health in the country. This conversation is brilliant. We talk 32 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: about cultural influencers, practical tools to meaningfully connect with your kids. 33 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: You'll want absolutely every second of this episode to sync 34 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: right in. Enjoy this conversation with a doctor Billy Garvey. 35 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: Belly hell a man, I'm good, I'm good. How are you, Asha, 36 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: I'm good? And you're joining us today from the set 37 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: of Scarface. 38 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 3: Yes, well, the set of Pop Culture Parenting. 39 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 4: But yeah, it was inspired partially by Miami Vice and 40 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 4: GTA five. 41 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: Your office is inspired by GTA five. 42 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, so we The podcast pop Culture Parenting was 43 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 4: off the back as boring, but off the back of 44 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 4: a Churchill fellowship to try and see how we could 45 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 4: use media to share the evidence more broadly of what 46 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 4: we're doing clinic around child of development mental health. And 47 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 4: one of the reasons that I did it is pop 48 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 4: culture has so many hooks in it and influenced how 49 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 4: we believed about things growing up, and I'm trying to 50 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 4: get as many dads over to it as possible. So 51 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 4: Miami Vice, even the illustrator, used those references for them 52 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 4: his teammade GTA five, And then we kind of use 53 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 4: a lot of movies. 54 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 3: From the eighties and nineties and more. 55 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 4: Recently to try and think about, Yeah, some of the 56 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 4: misconceptions we have about kids and masculinity and mental health 57 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 4: and anxiety and resilience and all that stuff. Because there's 58 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 4: just so much misinformation out there. 59 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: I had to unlearn a lot of things that I 60 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: had learned from eighties teen movies around, particularly around authority 61 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: and dating. 62 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 4: It was weird, so totally influence as still happening on 63 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 4: you kids that are coming up today, and I think 64 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 4: there's so many of us that are working really hard 65 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 4: to break those beliefs and attitudes but yeah, it's really challenging, 66 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 4: especially if you're not aware of the bias it has 67 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 4: on you. And that kind of you know, tough love 68 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 4: kind of attitude that a lot of men have, especially 69 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 4: towards boys, is just really harmful. 70 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: And you could only be two things as a high 71 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: school teenager in any of those films. You were either 72 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 1: the downtrodden one or you were the son of the 73 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: owner of the country club. 74 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you always you know, all the girls loved you, 75 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 4: and you were just you never showed any emotions, you 76 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 4: never showed any fear. 77 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: And you're always mean, like you only communicate with You 78 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: had no empathy. You were cold, and to be cold 79 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: and mean got you the hot check and the Corvette. 80 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the Corvette. We actually we use Pretty. 81 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 4: Woman for self esteem because yeah, that is this. You know, 82 00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 4: everyone looks up to Richard Gear, but actually he's got 83 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 4: really shallow relationships and he's really insecure, even that memory 84 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 4: of King of wishful thinking. You know, that's how he 85 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 4: dealt with his feelings. He just got out and drove 86 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 4: the car really fast. Yeah, you know, because God forbid, 87 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 4: you have to actually sit and be with your thoughts. 88 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: Well, Billy sometimes that can work. I had a difficult 89 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 1: morning this morning, as like, despite what the signs say, 90 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: I'm in a neighborhood where people just go, oh yeah, 91 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: but that no stopping sign of the kissing God doesn't 92 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: apply to me. I'm just going to double park this 93 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 1: Mercedes or this Q seven or whatever while little children 94 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: run between cars because I'm me. 95 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: And I got real pissed off about it. 96 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: But then I got on my motorbike and rode here 97 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: listening to Fu Manchu's King of the Road the whole way, 98 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: and it was good, beautiful. 99 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 4: But I wonder if you did something I should, where 100 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 4: you were aware of your frustration. 101 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 3: And what the reason. 102 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: I find it very much like be with this, breathe 103 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: a bit, and then get on get out of here. 104 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 3: Yeah beautiful? And how did you learn that. 105 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: Rude trial and error through reverse engineering? I was about nineteen, 106 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: I think eighteen nineteen years old, and I was like, 107 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: how do I keep having these days where everything just 108 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 1: stacks on top of itself and everyone's mad at me? 109 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 2: What is it? What is it? 110 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: And I would just go back and back and back 111 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: and back in the day to go, ah, when I 112 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: get that feeling, that's when it starts and I started 113 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: to learn to notice that and recognize and go ah. 114 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: I was seeing, thankfully a state funded psychologist at the time, 115 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: which helped me a lot. But yeah, I got just 116 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: being aware of that. And but that changes all the 117 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: time as the stresses in our life change. I say 118 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 1: to people all the time, like, you don't just go 119 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 1: to a psychologist for you, you know, meet it your 120 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,799 Speaker 1: healthcare plan, do ten weeks of it, and then you're clear. 121 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 2: It's not like high school. You don't graduate. 122 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 1: You're just getting a set of tools to deal with 123 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: what's happening in your life at that point. But then 124 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: comes summertime when I don't know, You've got a new girlfriend, boyfriend, 125 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: your kids now doing something they didn't do before, your 126 00:05:58,600 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: neighbor's building out something. 127 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 2: Now you've got more stresses. 128 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: You might be outgunned again, and it's important to keep 129 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: understanding that I might need a little bit more here. 130 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 3: So I'm still learning, well, yeah, I mean we all are. 131 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 3: You know. 132 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 4: I've done so much study in this space and worked 133 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 4: in it for so long, But I still am learning 134 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 4: every day from usually the kids I'm meeting clinic, but 135 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 4: also the other professionals, the families and my own kids, 136 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 4: you know about this, and my own therapist. I see 137 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 4: a therapist pretty regularly, and it's amazing I have to 138 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 4: do that to carry that much. 139 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 3: Weight O carry. 140 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 2: I do love that that. 141 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: You know, most psychologists don't see you on Fridays because 142 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: they're all seeing each other. 143 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 4: Yeah. So yeah, it's really interesting. But I mean it's 144 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 4: beautiful and it's funny. I was show like, I was 145 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 4: thinking about this coming into it, and I you know, 146 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 4: you had such a positive influence on me as a teenager. 147 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 3: Because you Yeah, definitely, I reckon. 148 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 4: One of the reasons that I felt brave enough to 149 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 4: wear my hair long was seeing you do it, and 150 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 4: you do it confidently, and you know, you weren't really 151 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 4: focused on other people's opinions. You just liked it like that, 152 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 4: and so, you know, I think it's quite funny to now, 153 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 4: you know, over twenty years later, to be talking to 154 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 4: you about this stuff, when you had that positive influence 155 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 4: on me in one of the most vulnerable periods of 156 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 4: my life, which is my teenagers. 157 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 2: Oh, Billy, I'm grateful to hear that, mate. Billy's talking 158 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: about that. 159 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: I was on music television for about five seven years 160 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: here in Australia, and for the first couple of years 161 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: I had long hair, like down to my belt line, 162 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of pressure for me to cut. 163 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 2: It like a lot, and I'm like, no, I'm not 164 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 2: going to. 165 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's beautiful though, because you would have been 166 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 5: influencing like thousands of people that said, actually there's someone 167 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 5: that's a bit different and they're comfortable with it and 168 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 5: they're confident, and maybe I can be a bit different too. 169 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 2: Well. I'm glad that helped. 170 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: And you know, I was listening to the very same 171 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: record that I listened to this morning at that point 172 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: in my life, because I'm not the old guy that 173 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: only listens to other music that was playing when life 174 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: was great, like that's not what I am. But today 175 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: I did actually need to pull that one out of 176 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: the toolkit and whack it on. 177 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 4: It was beautiful that you even have a toolkit and 178 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 4: you talk about it like that and think about it 179 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 4: like that because and you've been podcasting a lot longer 180 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 4: than I have, but it's really amazing for you to 181 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 4: share that with people and then they can think about 182 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 4: maybe it's okay to do myself. 183 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: What I was speaking about before about being so influenced 184 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: by I mean, my mum raised us by herself when 185 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: I was about eleven, so four boys, one older, two younger, 186 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: and she worked six sometimes seven days a week. And 187 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: so listen man, the VHS movie library, the dollar weekly 188 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 1: section was, you know, kept us quiet. I get it, 189 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: and that was the screen time. And how influenced well 190 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: until he spoke now like, how influenced I was by 191 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: that those norms and tropes that I was being exposed 192 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: to about masculinity because mostly all American films and mostly 193 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: all that dynamic we discussed earlier. Not only that, when 194 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: my dad moved out did leave a stash of Playboy 195 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: magazines that were in a box that we discovered one day. 196 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: And now I'm reading the stories in Penthouse and Playboy 197 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: magazine a long long time ago. But people would write 198 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: in their stories about how they had sex with someone 199 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 1: or whatever. And this is what I absorbed as, Oh, 200 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: this is I guess, this is it. 201 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 2: This is what we have. 202 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: And because of the intensity of those both of those things, 203 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,959 Speaker 1: they really imprinted upon me when we have like no 204 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: other voice when it comes to talking to young men 205 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: about masculinity, and in my case, it was vhs and magazines. 206 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,839 Speaker 1: Now it's a tablet or a phone. What can happen 207 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: if if we as a parent momm did not have 208 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: time to jump in there. Right, she tried her best 209 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: and she did well, but she didn't have time to 210 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: kind of have a She wasn't she didn't know what 211 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 1: we were doing. 212 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 3: You know, she was a work totally. 213 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 4: And yeah, I actould wear kindred spirits because I was 214 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 4: the same. I was brought up by a single mum. 215 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 4: She was raising three boys, you know, same. She worked 216 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 4: full time for Frankston City Council and then waitress on 217 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 4: the weekends and evenings, and then worked a lot of 218 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 4: weekends as well as a receptionist and you know, just 219 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 4: to try and stop the mortgage drowning her. And it 220 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 4: was really hard. And you know, I have the same 221 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 4: memories of you. I you know, watching all the action 222 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 4: hero movies and being like, that's what a man is, 223 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 4: his muscles, and if he has a problem, he uses 224 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 4: physical violence to get what he needs and get respect. 225 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 4: Women are objects, their trophies. 226 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 3: You know. 227 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 4: The more women partners you have, you just grab them 228 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 4: and kiss them, you know, like you show them how 229 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 4: much of a man you are. And pornography is having 230 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 4: a hugely detrimental impact on what. You know, intimacy is 231 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 4: seen as by you know, people that are coming up now, 232 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 4: especially young boys through really early ages of teenage years 233 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 4: when you know, you and I, yeah, might have been 234 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 4: exposed to it. 235 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 3: You know, I had an older brother who had all. 236 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 4: Those magazines, and it was really hard because I remember 237 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 4: having to you know, I probably still have some bias 238 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 4: in that I work really hard. I was raised by 239 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 4: you know, strong feminist mother, but I witnessed a lot 240 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 4: of intimate partner violence against her, and so you know, 241 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 4: one of the biggest risk factors of adult mental illness 242 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 4: is developmental trauma, and one in three of it, one 243 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 4: in five of us, sorry, have experienced three different types 244 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 4: of developmental trauma, whether it's abuse, neglect, or household dysfunction, 245 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 4: parental mental illness, intimate partner violence. You know, this is 246 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 4: stuff that is really common through lots of households. And 247 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 4: then if you look and you have this awful kind 248 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 4: of acceleration of it because the movies are showing you 249 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 4: that men don't show their feelings. You know, they are 250 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 4: a real man if they just bury it or they 251 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 4: release it through anger and violence that's to be celebrated. 252 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 4: And that's not just movies. That's in our sporting culture. 253 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 4: That's in a lot of leadership positions, you know, hostility 254 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 4: and aggression and I'm the US and I'll take what 255 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 4: I want and you will respect me because you'll fear me. 256 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 4: But that's not true. That's false respect, and that's not 257 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 4: someone that we actually really value. We're just afraid of them. 258 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 4: And I think that you know, our ability to reflect 259 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 4: back on how that will influence like that is a 260 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 4: really powerful thing and to think how can we do 261 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 4: better knowing that kids today are getting lots of influencers, 262 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 4: that people are capturing them and going, hey, come and 263 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 4: spend money with me, Come and like spend time with 264 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 4: me online. 265 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 3: I will make. 266 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 4: You feel good about yourself and I'll show you that 267 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 4: you're valued and that this future path of power is 268 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 4: ready for you. 269 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 3: And it's it's a false prophet that is. 270 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 4: Hurting kids more than many other things in our community. 271 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: But sometimes remember in the fight scenes, Mum she worked 272 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: as a CVGP for the Australian Army and she would 273 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: walk past the house. 274 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 3: You know, she's. 275 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 2: Laundry in one hand. Groceres and the other. 276 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: You know, we're just sitting in front of the TV, 277 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: and she'd see people punching. 278 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 2: You go, that's bullshit. That got to be dead after 279 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 2: two punches with it. 280 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: Oh, and so we kind of at least had an 281 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: idea that the violence that we saw wasn't real. And 282 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: you know, later on, as I became a roadie, I 283 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: was like seventeen, and I'm working in pubs and stuff, 284 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: and I saw what pub violence can be. Fights don't 285 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: look like John Wick now over in eight seconds, and 286 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: someone's probably never going to smile the same. 287 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 2: Way again, you know. 288 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: And but the people, if you've never been exposed to that, 289 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:31,599 Speaker 1: you might go into a situation at a pub or 290 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: something with bravado when you're eighteen nineteen, thinking I've seen 291 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: how this works. I punched him twice and then do 292 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: some sort of rad ninja kick and then everyone kisses me. 293 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 2: No, you get king hit and you're dead. 294 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny. 295 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 4: I've never in my life started a fight, but my 296 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 4: fragility and my masculinity is that I can't walk away 297 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 4: from one. And I started pediatrics my first day ever 298 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 4: on a pediatric ward a very long time ago. I 299 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 4: had two black eyes, you know, because the night before 300 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 4: I'd jump by a bunch of guys and I started 301 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 4: boxing because of that, because I was like, that's the answer, 302 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 4: is be able to defend myself. But I you know, 303 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 4: it's not true. It's like it's not with violence against violence, 304 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,199 Speaker 4: just as you said it, it can be hugely physically 305 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 4: traumatic but also really emotionally and psychologically traumatic. 306 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 3: And I still carry that around with me. 307 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 4: I'm like hypersensitive to you know, threats and issues like that. 308 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 4: And now I'm raising a boy and a girl and 309 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 4: it's huge privilege, but it's more important for the safety 310 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 4: of the community. 311 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 3: How I raise my son, Charlie. 312 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 4: And as you said, where are the depictions of healthy 313 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 4: ways to deal with stress, healthy ways to show emotions 314 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 4: that we're struggling with? You know, how do we see 315 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 4: men that don't use violence but actually use understanding and 316 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 4: sympathy and empathy and compassion to actually make our communities 317 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 4: healthier and stronger and safer because we can do better 318 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 4: than what we're currently doing. Like it's ridiculous and we 319 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 4: just we love it so much, that's the problem. 320 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 3: It's so graphic. 321 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 4: And we even did Fight Club and Beautiful Boys recently, 322 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 4: and you know, I remember watching that as a teenager 323 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 4: and thinking, isn't this guy look how powerful Brad Pitt 324 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 4: is look at it doesn't care about anything. 325 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 3: He's just violent and he can take a hit, you 326 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 3: can give a hit. 327 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 4: He doesn't have feelings, and he just talks about that 328 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 4: idea of resilience being just gritting your teeth and like 329 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 4: taking what's yours, and it's it's hugely detrimental because it 330 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 4: does you know, you were probably able to watch it 331 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 4: and say maybe because of your mum, you were able 332 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 4: to watch it and go, but that's not real life. 333 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 4: So you didn't carry that through. But a lot of 334 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 4: people do. They carry it through with them, you know. 335 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 4: And I still have that difficulty with how I deal 336 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 4: with my anger today because of the experiences through my 337 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 4: childhood but also the influence those cultures had on me. 338 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 4: And you know, I work really hard to try and 339 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 4: get better with that, but it takes a lot of time, 340 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 4: and effort starts with me going, this is something that's 341 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 4: mine to work. 342 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 3: On, and I have to take responsibility for it. 343 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: So because auderies are often saying to me and she 344 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: said it around g when she was you know, fourteen 345 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: and fifteen started going out to parties and stuff like that, 346 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: She's not you. Okay, she's not you, and she's not 347 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: going to do the things that you did, and so 348 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: it's really difficult. 349 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 2: It was really difficult. 350 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: I had to learn how to do it to kind 351 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: of remember that when you're in the moment, can you 352 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: help me understand because it's something I struggle with a 353 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: lot as well. When it's a part of being a kid, 354 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: a little kid four five six years old, hitting, pushing 355 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: that is a part of figuring it out as a parent. 356 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 2: What are the things we can do to keep. 357 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: Our own histories with that sort of stuff to one 358 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: side and understand this is a part of them figuring 359 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: out space and boundaries and things like that, like. 360 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 2: What's because it's going to happen, what are the healthy 361 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 2: ways that we might be able to do with it? 362 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 2: Deal with that? 363 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's so good and Ashua, you obviously 364 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 3: do it naturally. 365 00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 4: Even your story about this morning is having an awareness 366 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 4: of what's happening in our own feelings because of what 367 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 4: is happening in the environment around us. And mindfulness has 368 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 4: been misinterpreted as well. True mindfulness is really just what's 369 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 4: the experience I'm having. It's not what's the reason and 370 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 4: changing is it's actually just being. 371 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 3: Aware of it. 372 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 4: And when I've got a fiery, little redheaded girl, like 373 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,439 Speaker 4: I've got a sensitive teperament, she's got a sensitive teperament 374 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 4: that's set in stone. We were genetically destined for that. 375 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 4: I've given it to her, so I can see me 376 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 4: in her so much. But I have to be aware 377 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 4: of that and catch myself and go I've got a 378 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 4: risk of a trap that I'll fall into. Is supporting 379 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 4: her in a way that I would want to be supported. 380 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 4: And if I can do that first, and then I 381 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 4: can go in and even I said to her mum 382 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 4: yesterday and clinic, who's like horrible, horrific trauma. And she's 383 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 4: got this gorgeous seven year old girl who you know, 384 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 4: I can't go into detail because of how disturbing it 385 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 4: is what's happened to this family. 386 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 3: But this mum is coming down so hard on her. 387 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 4: Like every couple of minutes, like punitive yelling at her, 388 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 4: don't do this, don't do that. And I know her 389 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 4: well enough now, so we talked about how do you 390 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 4: feel when you're experiencing that, and she's not listening or 391 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 4: she's doing something I wanted to And then we talked 392 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 4: about how you need to connect with her, and then 393 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 4: you need to actually think what would I like her 394 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 4: to be doing instead, and how do I help her 395 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 4: do that? 396 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 3: You know. 397 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 4: And it's a really important thing because we often get 398 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 4: stuck on stop doing that, no, you know, and it 399 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 4: doesn't help, or you're okay, and things like that. Those 400 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 4: dismissive or punitive approaches not only they not help, but 401 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 4: they also risk shame, and shame is something that can 402 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 4: be hugely detrimental to our own mental health but also 403 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 4: the attachment that we have in healthy relationships, because one 404 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 4: of the worst things we do as parents is we 405 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 4: withdraw love as a punishment. So we say, like, I'm 406 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 4: so angry at you because you hurt your brother or 407 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 4: you didn't listen to me. So I'm going to actually 408 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 4: pull support away and I'm going to make you feel 409 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 4: like my love is conditional and my love will come 410 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 4: back when you comply. But that's actually when we most 411 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 4: importantly go towards kids and show them how unconditionally we 412 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 4: love them. That doesn't mean we're being permissive, that doesn't 413 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 4: mean we're saying do whatever you want. It's saying we'll 414 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 4: face this together, and I'll actually guide you with as 415 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 4: much support as you need to succeed in the thing 416 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 4: that I want you to be doing. 417 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: Instead, the kind of parenting you're describing is the kind 418 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: of parenting I'm going to say, pretty much nobody my 419 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: age ever saw. That's all right, So I understand you 420 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: when you say connect with the kid, and da da da, I'm. 421 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 3: Like, and. 422 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 2: What does that look like? 423 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 3: All right? 424 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 2: I have no like so, and I'm not alone in that. 425 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 2: So I'm wondering. I don't know what I'll be. I'll be. 426 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: It's three minutes left before we have got We've passed 427 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: every little fast last flag. We've got to get in 428 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: the car. We've got to get out of here. We've 429 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,959 Speaker 1: got to get to school. And I haven't finished my breakfast. 430 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: I'm still in my pajamas and I'm just being just 431 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: not wanting to do anything you tell me, all right, 432 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: and I'm throwing stuff go. 433 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 4: So first, I'm getting really upset and annoyed, and I've 434 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 4: got to sit with that, and I've got to own 435 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 4: that I can't give that to you. 436 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 3: You're a kid. 437 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 4: Next, I think Okay, do I actually have the capacity 438 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 4: in the space to support usher in this? And if 439 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 4: I do, my first priority once i'm calm, is going 440 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,640 Speaker 4: in regulated and trying to connect with you. 441 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:30,719 Speaker 1: Why are you bringing all that, Dad? Why are you're 442 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: making all huffing puffing noises? 443 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,360 Speaker 3: Dad? Yeah, because I'm getting frustrated. 444 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 4: But that's actually on me because I should be supporting 445 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 4: you more to meet you know what we need to 446 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 4: do this morning. 447 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 3: And I can see that you really loved it. 448 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 4: I don't want to go. I can see I don't 449 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:46,239 Speaker 4: want to go. Yeah, I can see that you know 450 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 4: you're having a great time. And what we're going to 451 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 4: do is we're going to come back to this or 452 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 4: you can bring in the car with you. But what 453 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 4: I actually need is you to show me how good 454 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 4: you are at getting in the car really fast, or 455 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 4: helping your brother get into the seat, like guiding with 456 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 4: a direction that is positive that the kid is a 457 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 4: small stretch. They can achieve it quickly and you can 458 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 4: reinforce it instantly, And that's called process praise. 459 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 3: And process praise. 460 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 4: Is not you're a good boy, it's what you're doing 461 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 4: is great, and process praise is actually more beneficial to 462 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 4: intrinsic motivation, because it's not I either good or bad. 463 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 4: It's the stuff that I make an effort on get 464 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 4: celebrated and reinforces the fact that I succeed in things 465 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 4: I make an effort towards. And then thinking about that 466 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 4: but also remembering it's actually okay. If you're like I 467 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 4: do not have the space, I don't have the time, 468 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 4: and I can't actually regulate myself. You just need to 469 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 4: get in the car. But you won't get better at 470 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 4: it by doing those. You'll get better at it by 471 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 4: the sixty percent of the time that you can get 472 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 4: down on a kid's level, like physically get down eyes 473 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 4: at the same level of below them and just. 474 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 3: Connect with them. 475 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 4: And we talk a lot as parents, especially like people 476 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 4: like you and I that like we like using words, 477 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 4: but actually a lot of it is nonverbal. A lot 478 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 4: of it is just being in the space with the 479 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 4: kid and being calm. And that's contagious because that's how 480 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 4: we're built. We're wired to attach. That's why mothers sacrifice 481 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 4: so much resources for newborn babies because attachment bonds are 482 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 4: so strong, and so if you just connect and when 483 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 4: you do talk, it's open language. 484 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 3: It's deep, it's low, and it's slow. 485 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 4: And it's trying to understand with curiosity, how can I 486 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 4: support you better to succeed at The thing I need 487 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 4: is both to you know, that's and I like, I'm 488 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 4: very lucky that I'm very trained in this space. 489 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 3: But also I've got thousands and thousands of kids. 490 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 4: That have met me in the worst times and have 491 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 4: come out the other side, either as little toddlers or 492 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 4: teens entering adulthood. And it's this beautiful privilege to watch 493 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 4: the evidence actually work in real life for all those kids. 494 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 4: And so I know where to put the money and 495 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 4: where to invest with my own kids, you know. And 496 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 4: it's not telling them to say please and thank you, 497 00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 4: and you know, this is how. 498 00:22:58,600 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 3: We sit it at a dinner table. 499 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 4: It's understanding why we do those things instead because it 500 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 4: makes the other person feel good, It helps them feel 501 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 4: a connection, it makes them more likely in the future 502 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,959 Speaker 4: to want to help us and be around us, and 503 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 4: you know, all those things. And I've got a really 504 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 4: bright three year old, but she's also like me. She's 505 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 4: really emotionally sensitive, so she disregulates quickly like I do. 506 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 4: So I need to help her with that and her 507 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 4: and I directly work on that, and the last time 508 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 4: that she'll succeed at it is in the most challenging spaces. No, 509 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 4: you know, we learn these skills in safe relationships and 510 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 4: safe environments with low levels of distress, not completely disregulated 511 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 4: and throwing chairs and breaking stuff and potentially hurting ourselves 512 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,239 Speaker 4: and others. That's the last time we get better at it. 513 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 4: And all of us as adults still fail at times 514 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 4: with that. And that's okay because we're humans. But as 515 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 4: long as people know that it's not all the time. 516 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 4: But I think it is important to understand the more 517 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 4: times that you do it well, the more likely the 518 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 4: kid is to get closer to independence in that skill set, 519 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 4: whether it's emotional regulation, empathy, whatever. 520 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: So it's offering rather than you're doing this because I'm saying, so, 521 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 1: it's let's do this and let's celebrate how we go. 522 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: Would that be what you would describe as process praise? 523 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 3: Definitely? 524 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's beautiful, And you know, I wonder I'll show 525 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,239 Speaker 4: if you in terms of like, do you think the 526 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 4: majority of the times that you are interacting and connecting 527 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 4: with your kid it's a positive one? 528 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: I would say, Yeah, I mean, if a majority to 529 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 1: win an election is fifty one percent, say, I'd say 530 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: it's probably sixty forty seventy thirty. 531 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: But I think that's probably fairly normal. You know. 532 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, so I meet heaps of parents every single 533 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 4: day and clinic where that ratio is off. It's more punitive, 534 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 4: it's more negativity. It's more like dysregulation and yeah, telling 535 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 4: them off and punishments, and it's really easy to get 536 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 4: caught in that russ But you, you and I, when we're. 537 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 3: In that right, we need to get out of it. 538 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 3: Not our kids. 539 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 4: Unconditional love and positive regard should exist to those we 540 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 4: care about, regardless of whether they say it back to us. 541 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 4: You know, that's when you prove it. You prove it 542 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 4: when it's still there, when they're driving you crazy, they're 543 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 4: not listening to you, they're not respecting it, and they're 544 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 4: being hurtful. 545 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 3: Because a lot of. 546 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 4: The kids that I see that are outcasts from society 547 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 4: have really never experienced that. And you know, that's multi 548 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 4: generational trauma. Their parents are no lesser parents than you 549 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 4: and me. They just carry more weight than we do 550 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 4: from their own childhood experiences and no one's guided them 551 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 4: to a better way, and I have the huge privilege 552 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 4: of meeting those and some of the best parents that 553 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 4: I've ever met as step parents, you know, or foster carers. 554 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 4: We're not better at it if we're biologically connected to kids. 555 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 4: Sometimes it makes it harder because we see ourselves in 556 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 4: them so much, you know, or our expectation is so high, 557 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 4: and that's most of the time. What we work on 558 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 4: is like, actually drop the expectation. And a beautiful woman 559 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 4: that I have the privilege of knowing called Rebecca Harris, 560 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 4: who worked as a well being lead in one of 561 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 4: the most disadvantaged primary schools in Victoria. She talks about 562 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,959 Speaker 4: how some kids just need to be celebrated for how 563 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 4: good they are walking through doors. And the point of 564 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 4: that story is like, how do we change the narrative 565 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 4: around a lot of the kids that are struggling because 566 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 4: so many of them they kind of become who they 567 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,239 Speaker 4: hear they are. And that was me, Like I got 568 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 4: kicked out of high school and no high schools around 569 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 4: wanted me to come because of how bad the narrative 570 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 4: was around me. So I almost didn't finish high school 571 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 4: because of that, and it was important, you know, for 572 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 4: me to understand that. When I finally got to the 573 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 4: space where it wasn't conditional, then I was able to 574 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 4: be myself and I stopped fighting authority, you know, and 575 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 4: started dealing with some. 576 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 3: Of the issues. 577 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 4: It took me over ten years to actually start genuinely 578 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 4: addressing them, but you know, they're really important things for 579 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 4: us to help with our kids. And I can see 580 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 4: that you're doing that even the way you talk about 581 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 4: your kids and your role is the one that takes 582 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 4: the ownership of things aren't going well. 583 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 3: That's actually on me. 584 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: I'm trying, trying, I'm not getting it right. No one's 585 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,959 Speaker 1: getting it right, no one's getting it perfect. If anyone's 586 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 1: then a couple's counseling, and I've done it before. The 587 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: first thing they basically tell you is don't come here 588 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:08,719 Speaker 1: and sit on this couch with the two of you 589 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,439 Speaker 1: expecting me to change the other person. 590 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 2: This is only going to change if you change. 591 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering how similar is that to the kind 592 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: of work you do when it comes to kids and 593 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: parents who come to you saying, ah, you know, he's 594 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 1: driving me nuts, he's you know, doing this and doing that, 595 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: or she's you know, won't listen or they're throwing this 596 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: like fix. 597 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 3: Them, yeah, totally. 598 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 4: So I always have to build the trust of the 599 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 4: parents first, and I have to therapeutically give them the 600 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 4: space to kind of express all those things that they're 601 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 4: being frustrated by and worried about. But often we'll then 602 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,959 Speaker 4: get to a point where I'll start introducing questions. 603 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 3: Like I wonder why. 604 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 4: I wonder why that's happening, Like I don't think he's 605 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 4: getting up in the morning and planning to be kicked 606 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 4: out of school that day or make you have an 607 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 4: awful time or scream at you for the afternoon. 608 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 3: I wonder why. Because there aren't any bad kids. I've 609 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 3: met the so called worst of them for years and 610 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 3: years and years, and they're not bad kids. Kids are 611 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 3: not innately built like that. 612 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,640 Speaker 4: They all want to connect, they all want to succeed, 613 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 4: but a lot of them just get caught up in 614 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 4: unhealthy patterns where their needs aren't being mesh because people 615 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 4: don't understand what those are, or they say he's a 616 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 4: certain age, he should know better by now, which is 617 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 4: really destructive, and so it makes it hard and probably 618 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 4: the hardest job that I have in clinic is convincing 619 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 4: parents to seek mental health support for themselves. And it's 620 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 4: really interesting, Asha, because I will frequently meet, especially dads 621 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 4: that got kids that are suicidal and self harming and 622 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 4: all the really awful stuff that too many people have 623 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 4: to experience, and I'll say, I just don't understand why 624 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 4: he won't go and see a psychologist, or when he goes, 625 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 4: he doesn't talk to them, and all that stuff. And 626 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 4: then we'll kind of give some space and I'll be like, 627 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 4: do you go and see someone? And they'll go no, 628 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 4: to waste the time, And it's like, it's crazy. When 629 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 4: your kid's life is on the line, they still think no, 630 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 4: there's no value in it. 631 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 3: But they get for themselves. 632 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 4: But they get frustrated, and the problem is they're unintentionally 633 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 4: role modeling that to those teenagers and saying I need 634 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 4: you to. 635 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 3: Go, but I'm not going. 636 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 4: And it's a bit like, even on a simpler, less 637 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 4: scared level, you know, why doesn't my kid respect me? 638 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 4: You learn about respect by how experiencing it coming to 639 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 4: you first? 640 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean? 641 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 4: As a child and a teenager, And then you go, 642 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 4: oh that's cool, I had a voice, I said, no 643 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 4: one it was respected. You know, when I said I 644 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 4: didn't want to do something, I was asked why a 645 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 4: person tried to understand why I'm getting frustrated. All that 646 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 4: stuff that's respect, and then you start understanding why you 647 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 4: give it to other people because you've felt it first yourself. 648 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 4: And so it's really important that we kind of understand 649 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 4: the processes that these kids are going through. And the 650 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 4: most likely reason a kid is consistently failing is because 651 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 4: the expectation is too much, and the best thing you 652 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 4: can do is actually drop the expectation, start where they're 653 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 4: connected them, and stretch them from there on the specific 654 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 4: things that you want to work with them. At so 655 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 4: many parents, I'm like, what are you working on? And 656 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 4: they're like, oh, him just listening to me or not 657 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 4: misbehaving or doing what on what he's told. I'm like, 658 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 4: that's so vague, Like how can you target that? Whereas 659 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 4: if you can be what we're actually working on is 660 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 4: getting out of the house in the morning without a fight, 661 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 4: then you're like, sweet, that's specific. We can do that, 662 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 4: and I want to that's what we're going to aim for. 663 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 4: So you get to the point where that doesn't happen anymore. 664 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 4: At all, we'll understand why it's happening, and then we'll 665 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 4: build the skill set in everyone in the family to 666 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 4: actually connect with each other and support each other so 667 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 4: that success comes. And too many families just accept that 668 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 4: that's what life is. But it shouldn't be like that. 669 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 4: There's a reason it's like that, and it's not because 670 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 4: you're a bad parent. It's just you haven't been given 671 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 4: the guidance and understanding and know how to support kids 672 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 4: and that stuff, which is what I really love doing. 673 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: Obviously, just taking a break from Doctor Billy Gary to 674 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: let you know that the story Club YouTube is up. 675 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: If you're looking for something interesting to watch across the break, 676 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: try story Club. It is the live shows that I've 677 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: been producing for over a year now. It's Australia's longest 678 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: storytelling show, longest running storytelling show, but I've been producing 679 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: it since about November last year year before by now, 680 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: and I film every show and I'm putting a new 681 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: story up every single week. It's only two things for 682 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: story Club. The story's got to be true in less 683 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: than fifteen hundred words, and they're brilliant stories told by 684 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: the most fantastic Australian comedians, authors, you know, raconteurs, you 685 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: know these people. They're very famous, wonderful people and it's hilarious. 686 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: You can jump on that in the show notes this 687 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: where you can also get yourself a ticket for the 688 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: live shows returning in February. That's also in the show 689 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: notes where you can get a copy of both. So 690 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: what now what my brand new book and of course 691 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: my third book now in the third edition, which is exciting. 692 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: Back after the break, which is where we're going to 693 00:31:53,560 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: be in just a moment. Through the work you're doing, 694 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: as you mentioned earlier, you are in contact with kids 695 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: that are as you said yourself just then you said, the. 696 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 2: Worst of the worst. 697 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: When you see policy, like for example, in Queensland, it 698 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: fits great on a billboard when I'm driving out to 699 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: Bribiy Island, it is that we in laws adult time 700 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 1: for adult crime. 701 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 2: If you're prepared to comment. 702 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 3: On it, like if I'm more than prepared to. 703 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: What do people need to understand about juvenile crime as 704 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: a symptom. 705 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a symptom, and it's not a symptom of 706 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 3: the kid. 707 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 4: It's a symptom of a society that doesn't support everyone 708 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 4: in us and it's not the parent's responsibility. People who 709 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 4: say where was the parents, so why did the parent 710 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 4: not catch this earlier don't understand that it's actually all 711 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 4: of our responsibility. And that's what the evidence shows is 712 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 4: if we want safer community, we actually all have to 713 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 4: take responsibility in every single one of those kids I've 714 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 4: ever met shot up flares for years that they needed 715 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 4: more support, and they were told they're bad kids because 716 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 4: they had ADHD or learning difficulty or other conditions like 717 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 4: mass and they just got left out. They got expelled 718 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,239 Speaker 4: from schools. And I've done a PhD with schools like 719 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 4: I'm very privileged to have learned a lot from educators 720 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 4: and they're the most important professionals in our community. 721 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 3: But schools that expel. 722 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 4: Kids will often argue you, we need to make sure 723 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 4: that the kids who aren't acting like this are protected 724 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 4: and safe. But actually, what the evidence strongly shows is 725 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 4: that schools that expel kids are worse for the kids 726 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 4: that are left behind. It is a symptom of a 727 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 4: school that does not know how to support kids with 728 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 4: emotional behavioral difficulties. And that's why my PhD was in 729 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 4: building the capacity of educators to support kids of emotional 730 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 4: behavioral difficulties and the punitive approaches. We know these kids, 731 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 4: there's a big percentage of them, twenty five to fifty 732 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 4: percent in some states, will reoffend within twelve months. That 733 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 4: is a kid showing you that the punitive approaches are 734 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 4: not helping. Like, this is not a supportive approach. This 735 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 4: is one that thinks that if we hurt them afterwards 736 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 4: and shame them and strike them out even more from society, 737 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 4: that somehow they'll reflect on it and go, I'll never 738 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,800 Speaker 4: do that again. But that's ridiculous, Like, we need to 739 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 4: show these kids that we come in around them when 740 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,359 Speaker 4: they're struggling, when they're being violent, when they're acting out. 741 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 4: It's not that there isn't consequences, but the difference between 742 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 4: a consequence and a punishment is a punishment intends to 743 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 4: hurt you. A consequence is to help you learn, and 744 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 4: you have to know the consequence before you act out 745 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 4: the behavior and understand why and be capable of not 746 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 4: acting out the behavior. So many of these kids have 747 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 4: really unhealthy ways that they deal with anger because that's 748 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 4: all they ever learned, that's all they ever witnessed, and 749 00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:00,240 Speaker 4: their parents are just drowning in carrying so much weight around, 750 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 4: whether it's poverty, whether it's parental mental illness, developmental trauma, 751 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 4: intimate partner violence. This stuff is rife in our communities 752 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 4: and we need to start taking a collective responsibility for us. 753 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 4: And I'm always happy to get on a soapbox and 754 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 4: talk about that because it needs to happen. It's probably 755 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 4: the most important thing we can do just that in 756 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 4: the environment and the two things that really scare me 757 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,240 Speaker 4: about the future from my little kids. 758 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 2: What you just said, absolutely I'm on board. 759 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,240 Speaker 1: And there's someone in my life who was the victim 760 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: of a home invasion to the point where this person 761 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 1: no longer felt safe and now left the city. They 762 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,439 Speaker 1: are still with their partner, but their partner travels down 763 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 1: to be with them because they just don't feel safe 764 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: at all to be anywhere near that. What you just said, 765 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:56,800 Speaker 1: the empathy and compassion around that those kids, I absolutely 766 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: agree with. And how would you talk to this person 767 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: whose life has been altered completely by this moment about 768 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,280 Speaker 1: how to access that empathy for these kids. 769 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 3: I would say, I'm so sorry that's happened to you. 770 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 3: That is so awful. 771 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 4: We was robbed three times growing up like and experienced 772 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 4: terrible it's local time. Yeah, and it's like that trauma 773 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 4: never leaves you, really like that's the hard thing about it. 774 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 4: And that person and I'm angry for them should be 775 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 4: angry at the border community, the people with power that 776 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 4: have made it so hard to get mental health support. 777 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 4: It's so hard to get support around families that are struggling, 778 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,359 Speaker 4: Like I work within those systems and they are so dysfunctional, 779 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 4: and sometimes it feels like they're intentionally dysfunctional because they 780 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 4: want to make it harder and harder for people to 781 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 4: get support, because other people are hoarding resources and saying, 782 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 4: you know, actually we know. There's a thing called the 783 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 4: inverse care law that all of the mental health conditions 784 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,799 Speaker 4: exist in the communities that least need them, the affluent communities, 785 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 4: not that they don't need them, but their rates of 786 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 4: mental illness in those children and teenagers is lower than 787 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 4: the disadvantaged communities. But none of none of the professionals 788 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,399 Speaker 4: work in them, because why would you. I can get 789 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,439 Speaker 4: paid twice as much to sit in the inner East 790 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 4: of Melbourne, and I can if I've got a clinic 791 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 4: set up out west, and it's just unacceptable and like 792 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 4: this has to change and has to change now. That's 793 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,720 Speaker 4: how you protect people from future home invasions, future intimate 794 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 4: partner violence, you know, future assaults. All that stuff is like, 795 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 4: but we don't we focus. We talk about this a 796 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 4: lot as being at the ambulances at the bottom of 797 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 4: the cliff and just sending more ambulances to the bottom 798 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 4: of the cliff and not actually getting up on the 799 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 4: cliff and going we need to educate people about how 800 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 4: dangerous this is. We need to put safety measures in 801 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 4: place so that we don't need to send the ambulances 802 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 4: down there anymore. 803 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 2: That's a harsh metaphor fuck. 804 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 4: Me totally, but it's hard, it's wild. That's what's happening, 805 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 4: and it will keep happening if we keep focusing on 806 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 4: like what age to put these kids into jail or 807 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 4: how long to put them in jail for that's a 808 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 4: symptom of us and our need. It's to be better, 809 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 4: not a single parents or a bad kid. And it 810 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 4: infuriates me, like, and I do so much work in 811 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 4: that space because I care so much about it, but 812 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,479 Speaker 4: it's selfish. I'm not doing it because I'm a nice guy. 813 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 4: I'm doing it because I've got two little kids that 814 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 4: are coming up and a third one on the way. 815 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 4: And the evidence is there's a thirty percent chance that 816 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 4: Avest is going to experience intimate partner violence, and we 817 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 4: know the actual rates are way higher than that because 818 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,879 Speaker 4: most people don't disclose it that's happened to them. 819 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: Everything you just said is amazing, yet will not fit 820 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: on a billboard driving out a good gund you know, 821 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: And that's the really hard part about I want to 822 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: ask you know, the last month of our lives in 823 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: this community that we live in has been just dominated 824 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 1: with conversations about a television show that came out on 825 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: a Netflix, a television show called Adolescence. For you, as 826 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 1: a pitutrician trying to parent, very difficult to set your 827 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 1: clinical brain aside understanding what's going on while you're emotional. 828 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,839 Speaker 1: I'm sitting there watching it, going, holy fuck man, that's 829 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: a gimbal that's been passed through a window. And look 830 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:05,799 Speaker 1: at that light. 831 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 2: That's like to the production because there's all on in 832 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 2: one shot. 833 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: If you haven't seen it, there's potentially spoilers going to 834 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 1: come up. When did you start realizing that this was 835 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,359 Speaker 1: something that was connecting with people that people start reaching 836 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: out to you about it. 837 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, lots and lots, And I've watched it because of 838 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 4: how much I was getting asked to talk about it. 839 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 4: You know, you can understand why it's connected so well 840 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 4: with everyone because I think, as you said, it was 841 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 4: beautifully done and beautifully acted, looks amazing all that stuff, 842 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 4: and there's an amazing. 843 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 3: Dialogue in it. 844 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,880 Speaker 4: But it's a really powerful piece that I think is 845 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 4: missing something really important, which is what do we do 846 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:36,759 Speaker 4: about it? 847 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 3: You know? 848 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,839 Speaker 4: And I think that if it helps create awareness of 849 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,400 Speaker 4: how vulnerable a lot of these little boys are, and 850 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 4: they are. They're little boys, they're not evil men. But 851 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,879 Speaker 4: if it can show us that and then give us 852 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 4: the pathway to actually step in and support them. And 853 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 4: you see that depiction through that show so much, you know, 854 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 4: classic classic stuff. He talks about how the kid was 855 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 4: bad at soccer. He put him in soccer because he's 856 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 4: getting bullied in teas, and he couldn't look at him 857 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:03,400 Speaker 4: when he failed. 858 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 3: He's like, he's crap at it. 859 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,360 Speaker 4: And the kid remembers looking over to his dad and 860 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 4: his dad not supporting him when he was failing at soccer, 861 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 4: and so his dad goes, I'll put him into boxing, 862 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,360 Speaker 4: then that all solve it, instead of going, actually, I 863 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 4: need to connect with this kid and help build his 864 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 4: self esteem through him valuing himself intrinsically and seeing success 865 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:23,760 Speaker 4: in the things he makes effort on and cares about. 866 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,359 Speaker 4: You know, and you see it all through that show 867 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,919 Speaker 4: that dad tried to break a cycle of trauma and him, 868 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 4: but he didn't know how to do something better. He 869 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 4: just knew how to stop doing one destructive thing that 870 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,279 Speaker 4: happened to him. You look at the schools. Schools are 871 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 4: like that. There's these communities that are drowning in schools. 872 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 4: And this is why my PhD was in this space 873 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 4: because if you're a remember, all of the educators are 874 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:51,240 Speaker 4: coming down really hard. They're being authoritarian and they're standing 875 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 4: over kids. And what kids learn is I can't wait 876 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 4: to be the one to stand over someone else. And 877 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 4: a lot of those boys go home to mums and 878 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 4: stand over them is the patriarchy has hurt them so much. 879 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 4: That's why, you know, we blame women for how high 880 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:08,840 Speaker 4: the suicide rates are in men. 881 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:10,880 Speaker 3: It's patriarchy's fault. 882 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,319 Speaker 4: It's taught us that you push down feelings that you 883 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 4: use violence to get respect that you know, women are trophies. 884 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,440 Speaker 4: That you know, gay men aren't real men, like we 885 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 4: shouldn't do chores. 886 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 3: All of this stuff. 887 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 4: This evidence has been out since Paul Covell looked at 888 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 4: it in the eighties. We've known about this stuff. Those 889 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 4: factors in your belief systems increase your rates of intimate 890 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 4: partner violence, of mental illness, of suicidality, of alcoholism, gambling, 891 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,279 Speaker 4: all of that stuff. And what that show showed is 892 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,279 Speaker 4: that it happens at a very young age and these 893 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 4: kids are looking for their place in the world and 894 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 4: they will find it in these toxic online communities if 895 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,759 Speaker 4: they don't find it in real life. And that's we 896 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 4: have to bring these kids in, you know, when they're 897 00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 4: struggling and realize that lots of them have sual diagnosable 898 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 4: mental illness. This is baseline rates of one in seven, Like, 899 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,719 Speaker 4: that's a lot of kids. You know, fourteen percent of 900 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 4: kids from four years of age. This is not a 901 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,319 Speaker 4: teenage thing. These kids are not getting the support that 902 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 4: they need because people just think we'll just leave alone. 903 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 4: Thirty three percent of adults in Australia think that mental 904 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:24,360 Speaker 4: illness in kids. 905 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,520 Speaker 3: Is just best left alone. It's wild. 906 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,080 Speaker 4: You know, two thirds of them aren't confident they could 907 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 4: recognize signs of mental illness in kids. It's wild, Like, 908 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 4: how do we change that? And that's I'm trying to 909 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 4: bring the evidence out into this space because it'll make 910 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 4: the society safer for my own kids, Like most of 911 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 4: their life, I'm not going to be around to protect them. 912 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,239 Speaker 4: So this is this is why this matters to me. 913 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,840 Speaker 4: And I think if that TV show helped raise awareness, 914 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 4: then it's really powerful. But I just think it would 915 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 4: have been great if it had what do we actually 916 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:56,799 Speaker 4: do about it? 917 00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 3: And never really showed us that. 918 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: I got right right into it and I started well, 919 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,400 Speaker 1: certainly with the production of it and the story behind 920 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: it and how it came up, and I was listening 921 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: to the writer they addressed this question and it was 922 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 1: a deliberate move because the idea was that then the 923 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,960 Speaker 1: conversation would be had about what happens now, because that 924 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 1: was what was important. 925 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. 926 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:24,839 Speaker 4: I think the hard thing is I show that most 927 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:26,880 Speaker 4: people that are speaking to it don't actually have the 928 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,320 Speaker 4: qualifications to be talking about that stuff, you know what 929 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,440 Speaker 4: I mean? And so if you think about it, if 930 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 4: this was cancer, you'd be letting people who actually know 931 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 4: about chemotherapy and all the science. 932 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,239 Speaker 2: That's Apple cited Inigo still Netflix with a different show. 933 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 1: But yeah, that did show that they did show people 934 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,200 Speaker 1: that didn't know what they were doing talking about. 935 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:47,400 Speaker 3: That's most people. 936 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned not being able to recognize symptoms or 937 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:52,880 Speaker 1: sciences of mental illness and kids. 938 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,359 Speaker 2: You know, because we talked about parents trying to seek help. 939 00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:58,920 Speaker 1: I mean this is what Eddie the dad, you know, 940 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 1: they both tried, but they were just had they just 941 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,160 Speaker 1: didn't have had nothing, the empty pendsal case, they had 942 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,319 Speaker 1: nothing to write with, right, So when it comes to 943 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,799 Speaker 1: trying to recognize things in kids, what are some things 944 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,880 Speaker 1: in that? And that show that depicted clear signs that 945 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,000 Speaker 1: we could identify and go, oh, that's what that looks like. 946 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 2: This is a problem. 947 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,279 Speaker 4: He was really you know, shut out this kind of 948 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 4: you know, we hear about this toxic alpha male you 949 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 4: know approach that the community that he's outcast from is there. 950 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:32,960 Speaker 3: You know, bullying should not exist in schools. 951 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,000 Speaker 4: We know the evidence of how to prevent it, but 952 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,200 Speaker 4: often we wait until it happens and then we come 953 00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 4: in and try and resolve it. 954 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:40,319 Speaker 3: You know that kid was. 955 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:44,759 Speaker 4: Really, you know, struggling with self esteem and often you know, 956 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 4: thinking about that. Everyone thinks I want a kid to 957 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,600 Speaker 4: have high self esteem, but what you actually want is 958 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,400 Speaker 4: secure self esteem. They can take on feedback and it 959 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 4: doesn't crush them. They're not transactional in their relationships. You know, 960 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,279 Speaker 4: they can fail at something and have growth from it. 961 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,480 Speaker 4: All of those things assigned of normal, healthy, secure self esteem. 962 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,320 Speaker 4: The other thing is that you know, he really struggled 963 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:08,880 Speaker 4: to get any support and any practical stuff. You know, 964 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,040 Speaker 4: his dad even really struggles to be affectionate, where his 965 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,880 Speaker 4: dad can't deal with his own emotions outside of aggression 966 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 4: and anger. You know, the kid, they weren't having conversations. 967 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,719 Speaker 4: It came out of nowhere, but you could kind of 968 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,400 Speaker 4: tell that they didn't know who this kid was anymore. 969 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:28,680 Speaker 4: And you know, building that, you know, proactively into our 970 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,240 Speaker 4: relationships with all of our kids so that we don't 971 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,799 Speaker 4: wait until they're drowning and then say, hey, what's going on? 972 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,800 Speaker 4: You know, how do we have sanctuaries that just celebrate 973 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 4: who the kid is? Even asking you at the start 974 00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,920 Speaker 4: of our conversation, like, how often is it just fun 975 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:44,319 Speaker 4: and joy and positivity? 976 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:45,799 Speaker 3: With the kids that are in your care. 977 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,880 Speaker 4: And we got caught up in so much of life 978 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 4: that makes it quite hard to prioritize that. But I 979 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,120 Speaker 4: would argue that is more important than how many vegetables 980 00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,600 Speaker 4: your kids eat, how good about reading and writing, how 981 00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:58,520 Speaker 4: good they are doing maths, how good. 982 00:45:58,440 --> 00:45:59,440 Speaker 3: About riding a bike. 983 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 4: The biggest predictor of success through life is your social 984 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,840 Speaker 4: and emotional development. The problem is everyone feels lost in 985 00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,520 Speaker 4: how to actually guide kids through that and recognize when 986 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,840 Speaker 4: they're struggling with it. And I mean, I can do 987 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,600 Speaker 4: ten hours just on that topic, but it's really important 988 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,560 Speaker 4: that you understand that's the bit to invest in with kids. 989 00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,280 Speaker 4: The other thing I'll show you, know you're asking about, 990 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,080 Speaker 4: what are the signs aggression? Aggression is a sign of 991 00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:27,600 Speaker 4: anxiety in childhood. It's not it's same as depression, aggression 992 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:28,280 Speaker 4: and agitation. 993 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:30,960 Speaker 3: That's not. The elderly is similar. 994 00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:34,239 Speaker 4: It's only adults that really have that low really flashed 995 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,280 Speaker 4: or I'm really scared and anxious. You know, they'll struggle 996 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,880 Speaker 4: to focus and need constant reassurance. Their body is often 997 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,000 Speaker 4: telling them they got a sort tummy or a headache, 998 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 4: or they feel tired, they're not making those feelings up. 999 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,520 Speaker 4: That's how a childhood and adolescent brain often translates I'm 1000 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:53,480 Speaker 4: feeling really lower, I'm feeling really scared, and so you know, 1001 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,400 Speaker 4: recognizing that if a kid is struggling with those things, 1002 00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,520 Speaker 4: then they need you to come in and support them 1003 00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,640 Speaker 4: and connect with them and trying understand their perspective and experience. 1004 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:05,040 Speaker 4: And if you're doing that, helping them regulate, helping them 1005 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:09,360 Speaker 4: think about healthier ways to handle rejection or not feeling 1006 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,600 Speaker 4: good enough and all of that stuff, and you're drowning. 1007 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 4: You should reach out to professionals, and it should be 1008 00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:18,040 Speaker 4: easy to access those people and educators, general practitioners, Maternal 1009 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,719 Speaker 4: child Health News. All of these guys are like the 1010 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,719 Speaker 4: coal Front specialists that are doing amazing work. They just 1011 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:25,880 Speaker 4: need to be better supported. And that's a lot of 1012 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:27,520 Speaker 4: the work that I do. I can get more reach 1013 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,919 Speaker 4: if I know support those professionals that are actually doing 1014 00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,400 Speaker 4: all the hard work to support these families and their kids. 1015 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,359 Speaker 1: You mentioned the stakes as to why you do this, 1016 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,680 Speaker 1: and I certainly think about that as well, and that 1017 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:49,000 Speaker 1: your job is to deliver this person at eighteen, you know, okay, healthy, 1018 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,520 Speaker 1: a decent human being and someone who's going to make 1019 00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,000 Speaker 1: the community that you all live in a better place. 1020 00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:58,960 Speaker 2: But that's me. I have the capacity in the space. 1021 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:00,239 Speaker 5: You know. 1022 00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,000 Speaker 1: We have a relationship with my wife and I were 1023 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,600 Speaker 1: there's you know, the families together, we have the time 1024 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,320 Speaker 1: and we think about this kind of stuff. But you 1025 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,640 Speaker 1: know that's not my mum who's by herself with four kids, 1026 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,200 Speaker 1: four boys who are or three of us would pre 1027 00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,000 Speaker 1: puberty at the same time. So the house smell's like 1028 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,160 Speaker 1: sweat and come and rotten food and just like it. 1029 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:23,040 Speaker 2: Was there was you know, but that's just when your 1030 00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:23,760 Speaker 2: teenage boys. 1031 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,440 Speaker 1: So how do you speak how do you speak to 1032 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,600 Speaker 1: the parent who's busiest shit going like, yeah, that's all 1033 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:30,040 Speaker 1: well and good for you guys to talk about that, 1034 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:32,840 Speaker 1: but I'm so busy keeping the lights on. 1035 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, drop the demands around it as much as you can. Yeah, 1036 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,279 Speaker 4: it's the same mush like I grew up. You know, 1037 00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,440 Speaker 4: there often wasn't food in the house. Like so if 1038 00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,000 Speaker 4: I said to my mum, hey, go and listen to 1039 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,239 Speaker 4: his parenting podcast where this guy bangs on about this 1040 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,440 Speaker 4: for two hours, you know, she would have been probably 1041 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,719 Speaker 4: pretty upset. All laughed at me about it. It's the 1042 00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,560 Speaker 4: same as the book I wrote. I don't think that 1043 00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,799 Speaker 4: book is being read by people like my mum. 1044 00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,279 Speaker 3: I don't think the podcast has been listened to it either. 1045 00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,960 Speaker 4: So we need to collectively have responsibility of taking some 1046 00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:02,399 Speaker 4: weight off those people's shoulders, financially, mentally, you know, all 1047 00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,560 Speaker 4: of the bits, how do we connect them to community? 1048 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,280 Speaker 4: Also remembering that we have a role that the evidence 1049 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,839 Speaker 4: can guide us on. One of the most protective things 1050 00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:14,200 Speaker 4: we can do for teenagers at risk is be non 1051 00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:17,160 Speaker 4: parental adult to take a genuine interest in them, you know. 1052 00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,400 Speaker 4: And I was lucky that I had a couple of 1053 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,080 Speaker 4: people like that that buffered me against all the awful 1054 00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:23,359 Speaker 4: stuff I was experiencing. 1055 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:24,839 Speaker 3: And how do we do that? 1056 00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,360 Speaker 4: We know, you know, every single school should be a 1057 00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,480 Speaker 4: positive experience for the kids that are in it. And 1058 00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:32,919 Speaker 4: the way that you do that is you make sure 1059 00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,800 Speaker 4: that every single kid in that community genuinely and honestly 1060 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,920 Speaker 4: feels like they're a positive element of that community, and 1061 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,880 Speaker 4: that community is richer and stronger because of them. And 1062 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,640 Speaker 4: that's what true inclusion is. True inclusion is not a kindness. 1063 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,680 Speaker 4: It We will be collectively stronger if we understand how 1064 00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,360 Speaker 4: to access the strengths of every single kid in our community, 1065 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,160 Speaker 4: and every kid has the potential. Way too many kids 1066 00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,080 Speaker 4: that are like school just sucks. And it's not the 1067 00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:01,000 Speaker 4: completely responsibility of the schools either, with rates of mental 1068 00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:04,000 Speaker 4: illness being so high. But also one of the biggest 1069 00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:08,120 Speaker 4: reasons of early educator burnouse is behavioral difficulties in kids. 1070 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,239 Speaker 4: They're not trained in how to understand it, identify it, 1071 00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,200 Speaker 4: and support it. And so how do we use a 1072 00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,600 Speaker 4: community start prioritizing this stuff and then you take some 1073 00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,360 Speaker 4: of that weight off the single parent. The mom's like 1074 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,040 Speaker 4: my mum and your mum that are doing this too much. 1075 00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,400 Speaker 4: But I bet you our show if you think about it, 1076 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,880 Speaker 4: there was something that your mom did that made you 1077 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,799 Speaker 4: such a pro social, healthy person. You might not like 1078 00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,319 Speaker 4: that compliment, but you know you're prioritizing your own mental health, 1079 00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:35,799 Speaker 4: given you're prioritizing those in your care, and you're doing 1080 00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,920 Speaker 4: advocacy work to try and support the broader community. And 1081 00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,640 Speaker 4: I bet you it was because there's something about your mum. 1082 00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,680 Speaker 1: I think it was both seeing both of my parents 1083 00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,280 Speaker 1: engage in help seeking behavior and as they're both doctors, 1084 00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:54,880 Speaker 1: and so also seeing that if something they didn't know 1085 00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:55,840 Speaker 1: the answer to something. 1086 00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 2: They would call I don't know. I don't know. I'm 1087 00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,240 Speaker 2: going to call he's the gastorine orologist, call him. 1088 00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,640 Speaker 1: And make it mean nothing about how great an nicasius 1089 00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,560 Speaker 1: they were. You know that they don't know the answer 1090 00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,960 Speaker 1: to that, And so that was I think the thing 1091 00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:15,640 Speaker 1: that ultimately did help a lot was was that and 1092 00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,759 Speaker 1: seeing them be cool with what does the evidence say 1093 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,239 Speaker 1: we got lucky in that we were raised like that. 1094 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:24,799 Speaker 1: Let's just say, for example, you know, you're sitting down 1095 00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:29,600 Speaker 1: with a piget Netflix and okay, doctor Billy, what's episode five, 1096 00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,279 Speaker 1: what's episode five of adolescents look like? 1097 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:34,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great question. 1098 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:36,680 Speaker 4: I think what it would look like is how the 1099 00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:41,239 Speaker 4: community responded and they took some ownership everyone in that 1100 00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:44,640 Speaker 4: community for the kids that were getting lost. And that's 1101 00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,239 Speaker 4: how you protect the girls, you know what I mean, 1102 00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:50,440 Speaker 4: make it so that the boys aren't behaving that way 1103 00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:54,200 Speaker 4: and you understand the reason why there's such antisocial behavior, 1104 00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,680 Speaker 4: risk taking in violence and aggression and kind of you know, 1105 00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:59,480 Speaker 4: things like intimate partner violence. 1106 00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,240 Speaker 3: And it would be a collective. 1107 00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,719 Speaker 4: Responsibility of one that kind of, for example, set up 1108 00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:09,200 Speaker 4: ways to support single young mums. You know, they're really vulnerable. 1109 00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,719 Speaker 4: They're so isolated, and how do we come in and 1110 00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:13,640 Speaker 4: around them. And the way that we do it is 1111 00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:18,239 Speaker 4: we build protective relationships within the community. Not you know, 1112 00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,960 Speaker 4: even there's a bit boring, but community health centers and 1113 00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,759 Speaker 4: hospitals should be owned by the community. The community should 1114 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,719 Speaker 4: walk into those spaces and feel like they're theirs. That's 1115 00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,480 Speaker 4: why people connect so well with a footy club because 1116 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:31,880 Speaker 4: they're like, this is my space. 1117 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:32,920 Speaker 3: The problem is. 1118 00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:36,120 Speaker 4: There's a lot of you know, patriarchal or toxic masculinity 1119 00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:38,520 Speaker 4: in those spaces that you and I know about that 1120 00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:42,080 Speaker 4: reinforces that behavior. So how do we challenge that collectively 1121 00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,000 Speaker 4: where we see it that idea that men are tough, 1122 00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,000 Speaker 4: that women are objects, you know, all of that stuff, 1123 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,799 Speaker 4: and call it out and challenges and put better behaviors 1124 00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,680 Speaker 4: and ideals in that space for everyone and celebrate. 1125 00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:54,960 Speaker 3: And we don't do it punitively. 1126 00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,759 Speaker 4: We don't do it from like moral perfection perspective that 1127 00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,320 Speaker 4: makes other people feel good because they might be saying 1128 00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,560 Speaker 4: the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing. We give 1129 00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:07,000 Speaker 4: them opportunities to learn better because, like you just talked about, 1130 00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,560 Speaker 4: you'll have a richer, healthier life because of it. Your 1131 00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,839 Speaker 4: relationships will be better, You'll feel better about yourself. When 1132 00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:14,880 Speaker 4: you do struggle, you'll catch it earlier and do the 1133 00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:15,759 Speaker 4: things you need to do. 1134 00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:17,840 Speaker 3: Like that's how we do it. 1135 00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,800 Speaker 4: We just put all the support around, all the parents, 1136 00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:23,239 Speaker 4: but also all the professionals that day in day out 1137 00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,560 Speaker 4: are supporting these kids in how they do it. So 1138 00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:30,160 Speaker 4: that would be a beautiful episode five of that community 1139 00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:31,520 Speaker 4: collectively heals through that. 1140 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:33,680 Speaker 2: You mentioned something earlier which. 1141 00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,319 Speaker 1: I really stuck on and it's what helped me, and 1142 00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:41,359 Speaker 1: you mentioned it helped you as well. How as far 1143 00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,399 Speaker 1: as I understand it, certainly as young men, I don't 1144 00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,319 Speaker 1: know if it's the same for young women. We're kind 1145 00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,320 Speaker 1: of biologically wired to seek out someone around our father's 1146 00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:54,680 Speaker 1: age but isn't our dad, and almost we're wired to 1147 00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:56,880 Speaker 1: see them as a guide that's sort of a mentor. 1148 00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:59,200 Speaker 2: And they could say the same thing to me that. 1149 00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,440 Speaker 1: My dad would say, and it would mean so much 1150 00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:06,200 Speaker 1: more because they weren't my dad. And so what can 1151 00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:11,600 Speaker 1: we as grown dudes, what role can we play in 1152 00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:13,840 Speaker 1: the lives of other teenage kids and you know, the 1153 00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:15,560 Speaker 1: teenage kids and friends of ours. 1154 00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, connect with them, value them for who they are. 1155 00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,960 Speaker 4: Show interest in who they are, show them your emotional struggles. 1156 00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,359 Speaker 4: You know, my daughter, at two and a half years 1157 00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,839 Speaker 4: of age, said she wants to be a boy, and 1158 00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:30,600 Speaker 4: my partner said why, and she said, because boys don't cry, 1159 00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,040 Speaker 4: you know, like they need to see men crying. They 1160 00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,759 Speaker 4: need to see men struggling, not feeling good enough, then 1161 00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:38,880 Speaker 4: working through. How do we deal with it in ways 1162 00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:43,160 Speaker 4: that isn't just external expressions of anger and violence. You know, 1163 00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:46,239 Speaker 4: how do we start kind of idolizing men that do 1164 00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,120 Speaker 4: that type of thing. You know, they're not They don't 1165 00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,239 Speaker 4: have athletic pross and bury their feelings and just punch 1166 00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,640 Speaker 4: people when they're angry, but they actually take responsibility for 1167 00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,120 Speaker 4: it and say, actually, I should be doing better. I'm 1168 00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:01,120 Speaker 4: really struggling with this express their and the help seeking 1169 00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:05,120 Speaker 4: behavior that your parents showed you. Just valuing these kids, 1170 00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,080 Speaker 4: like I've learned this off the professionals to do the 1171 00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:10,920 Speaker 4: actual work, whether they're in the police or they're educators, 1172 00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:14,200 Speaker 4: they're social workers. Like these guys are amazing. They just 1173 00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:16,239 Speaker 4: get down to these kids and show them that they 1174 00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:19,040 Speaker 4: care about them despite how they're behaving and acting, because 1175 00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:22,040 Speaker 4: they understand it's not their fault, and they're curious to 1176 00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:24,920 Speaker 4: understand why and actually help them through that process. 1177 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:26,320 Speaker 3: That's how we do it. 1178 00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:28,680 Speaker 1: I just as you mentioned that, I was thinking about 1179 00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:31,839 Speaker 1: the guy who plays the cop who's checking the young 1180 00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:35,799 Speaker 1: boy in in episode one, and just the gentle kindness 1181 00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:39,600 Speaker 1: in his voice, like he clearly knows exactly why he's there. 1182 00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:43,120 Speaker 1: He's probably seen the video. But you're doing really well, mate, 1183 00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:44,120 Speaker 1: You're doing so well. 1184 00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:45,200 Speaker 2: This part will be over soon. 1185 00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:47,000 Speaker 1: Just the way that he spoke to him. I got 1186 00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,080 Speaker 1: so much from that. It's like, all right, I has 1187 00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,239 Speaker 1: mentioned before. I might not have seen that when I 1188 00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,719 Speaker 1: was younger. No, I don think no anybody my age did. 1189 00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,160 Speaker 1: But ah, that's what it looks like. That was what 1190 00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,319 Speaker 1: it looks like, or can look like, to speak really 1191 00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,920 Speaker 1: kindly in a really intense situation to someone. 1192 00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:03,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. 1193 00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,160 Speaker 4: Well, paramedics have taught me that, because they find that 1194 00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,080 Speaker 4: one of the most helpful things they can do when 1195 00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:13,120 Speaker 4: someone's disregulated and violent is connected with them and say 1196 00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,279 Speaker 4: I'm so sorry this is happening to you, you. 1197 00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:18,480 Speaker 3: Know, because it is. It's an awful experience. 1198 00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:20,520 Speaker 4: And I often talk about kids in the classroom who 1199 00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:23,920 Speaker 4: are really disregulating and being violent, and they're the ones 1200 00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:26,200 Speaker 4: that feel the least safe, you know, and we have 1201 00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:28,280 Speaker 4: to remember that. It's hard because we have to protect 1202 00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:31,120 Speaker 4: ourselves and other kids, but remembering that that kid feels 1203 00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:33,680 Speaker 4: really unsafe. And it's really funny, Olsha, because there's even 1204 00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:40,759 Speaker 4: some evidence around partnership approaches therapeutically using quiet enthusiasm and say, 1205 00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,080 Speaker 4: you know, you're a teenager and you're struggling, and I'm. 1206 00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:45,600 Speaker 3: Like, mate, what are you talking about. 1207 00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:47,520 Speaker 4: You're going to be an astronaut, like you're probably going 1208 00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:49,560 Speaker 4: to kill cancer, like all of this is going to 1209 00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:49,960 Speaker 4: be fine. 1210 00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:51,200 Speaker 3: You're the best kid in the world. 1211 00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,840 Speaker 4: It's very hard to believe that, where if I'm quietly 1212 00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,239 Speaker 4: enthusiastic and think, hey, I'm sure, I know this is hard, 1213 00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,000 Speaker 4: and I'm so sorry, and I want to support you better, 1214 00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,479 Speaker 4: but I actually think you have huge potential. I think 1215 00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:05,319 Speaker 4: there's going to be such a bright future for you 1216 00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:07,560 Speaker 4: when I figure out how to support you better and 1217 00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:08,600 Speaker 4: how to guide you better. 1218 00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:09,600 Speaker 3: And we're going to. 1219 00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:13,360 Speaker 4: Now today start working on all the amazing things about 1220 00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,239 Speaker 4: you being a bigger part of your life. And I 1221 00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,040 Speaker 4: can't wait to see you have the life and future 1222 00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:18,640 Speaker 4: that you deserve. 1223 00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:21,160 Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean? That's more believable, isn't it. 1224 00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,880 Speaker 2: Yeah? And you know, look the tears in my eyes. 1225 00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:26,760 Speaker 4: My yeah. 1226 00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,760 Speaker 3: Well it's beautiful, isn't it? Like it's just so much. 1227 00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,520 Speaker 3: The beautiful thing is this is out there. This isn't fictional. 1228 00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:33,160 Speaker 5: I'm not. 1229 00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:36,240 Speaker 4: I get to do this every day with teens that 1230 00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:40,560 Speaker 4: have been labeled since since kinder and preschool that they're 1231 00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:43,400 Speaker 4: bad kids, and I meet them as teenagers and often 1232 00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:46,240 Speaker 4: as a kid. I see recently, he's seventeen. He walks 1233 00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:49,000 Speaker 4: around school and he's like, I'm like, how come you 1234 00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:51,720 Speaker 4: don't have any mates? And he's like, because all the 1235 00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:53,440 Speaker 4: girls want to be with me, and all the boys 1236 00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:54,280 Speaker 4: know that old bashing. 1237 00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:55,640 Speaker 3: He's seventeen. 1238 00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,720 Speaker 4: He's had such severe trauma that he's still a toddler 1239 00:57:58,800 --> 00:57:59,840 Speaker 4: socially and emotionally. 1240 00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:01,520 Speaker 3: And so if I treat. 1241 00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:04,440 Speaker 4: Him like an adult and say, mate, think about how 1242 00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,960 Speaker 4: the other people feel. I don't think that's true. You know, 1243 00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:08,600 Speaker 4: actually all the girls don't want to be with you, 1244 00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:10,720 Speaker 4: and all the boys aren't afraid of you. He'll just 1245 00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:14,600 Speaker 4: dig in further. Whereas if I actually connect with him 1246 00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,560 Speaker 4: and try and put better pro social behaviors in at 1247 00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:23,280 Speaker 4: the level of a toddler, just early superficial empathy, showing 1248 00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,080 Speaker 4: him that he has a strength in protecting others and 1249 00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:28,800 Speaker 4: connecting with them and guiding them, give him opportunities for 1250 00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:32,520 Speaker 4: leadership like that, then he'll get to the part where 1251 00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,960 Speaker 4: those behaviors and beliefs don't exist him him anymore. And 1252 00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:37,520 Speaker 4: I don't do it by punishing him. 1253 00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:41,800 Speaker 1: And this is why experts like you exist because I mean, 1254 00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:43,360 Speaker 1: what parent would know to do that? 1255 00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:45,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, no one's ever showing. 1256 00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:47,560 Speaker 1: This is why finding help is so important because you 1257 00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:49,480 Speaker 1: don't know what you don't know. You might want to 1258 00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:51,240 Speaker 1: help as much as you can, but you might not 1259 00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,400 Speaker 1: realize that what you're doing isn't actually helping totally. 1260 00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:57,160 Speaker 4: But I would also argue that the specialists and experts 1261 00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:59,160 Speaker 4: are not the most powerful in this space. It's the 1262 00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:02,800 Speaker 4: people that have relationships, you know, and it's the people. 1263 00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:04,480 Speaker 3: With you know, visibility. 1264 00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:06,720 Speaker 4: Like like I said at the start, you did you 1265 00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,960 Speaker 4: You directly influenced my trajectory as a teenager because I 1266 00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,480 Speaker 4: saw a male with long hair who was happy and 1267 00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:15,880 Speaker 4: successful and secure in himself, and I was able to 1268 00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,440 Speaker 4: be something different to what every other bit of mainstream 1269 00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,920 Speaker 4: culture was showing me, you know, like, that's but that's important. 1270 00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:25,000 Speaker 4: You might feel uncomfortable about that compliment, but we actually 1271 00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:28,360 Speaker 4: need to start elevating those people. And that's how you 1272 00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:30,160 Speaker 4: get rid of Andrew Tate. That's how you get rid 1273 00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:32,840 Speaker 4: of all that stuff because they see someone else and 1274 00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:36,520 Speaker 4: they go, oh, it's the same as pornography. Show them 1275 00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:40,200 Speaker 4: what genuine healthy intimacy looks like, you know, and then 1276 00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:43,000 Speaker 4: they will be so like jarring when they see when 1277 00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:45,120 Speaker 4: it's not like that, that it will feel foreign and 1278 00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:47,480 Speaker 4: wrong to them. And that's you know, I have to 1279 00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:49,640 Speaker 4: work on that. I have to be more intimate to 1280 00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:52,720 Speaker 4: everyone I care about, Like I love my friendships, so 1281 00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:55,400 Speaker 4: men in my life, I love them, and I physically 1282 00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:57,520 Speaker 4: show them I love them, I tell them I love them, 1283 00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,440 Speaker 4: and so it's it's a really important thing that we 1284 01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:03,680 Speaker 4: actually get better at complimenting each other and showing those 1285 01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:05,760 Speaker 4: sensitivities in a strengths based approach. 1286 01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:08,000 Speaker 2: I'm very grateful that you said that. 1287 01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:10,520 Speaker 1: I'm very grateful that I got to play a part in, 1288 01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:13,240 Speaker 1: you know, the life that you have, and that it 1289 01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:15,200 Speaker 1: meant a lot to me that you said that I 1290 01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:18,600 Speaker 1: would like personally like I would like to bring back 1291 01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:22,880 Speaker 1: benevolence as this that's what masculinity looks like. That's what 1292 01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:28,240 Speaker 1: strength looks like. It takes strength and benevolence. And you know, 1293 01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:32,440 Speaker 1: you can be like you can have muscle and you 1294 01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:37,800 Speaker 1: can show that if push does come to shove, then 1295 01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:38,880 Speaker 1: it's going to be a different thing. 1296 01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:40,040 Speaker 2: But it takes strength and. 1297 01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:44,280 Speaker 1: Power and grit to have someone shouting at you and 1298 01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,480 Speaker 1: not respond at that energy and to take it on 1299 01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:50,920 Speaker 1: and to try to understand and to try to solve 1300 01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:55,200 Speaker 1: something that is hard. I'd like to see more men 1301 01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:59,560 Speaker 1: doing that in leadership roles, but that doesn't win your elections, unfortunately. 1302 01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:01,160 Speaker 3: Mate. 1303 01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:03,080 Speaker 1: I couldn't be more grateful that you made time to 1304 01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:05,560 Speaker 1: do this with us today. The work you're doing is 1305 01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:10,160 Speaker 1: really important. And yeah, thank you for making the time 1306 01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:12,240 Speaker 1: to speak to us. I've really really stoked we've got 1307 01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:12,920 Speaker 1: a chance to do it. 1308 01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:13,720 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Bell. 1309 01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,440 Speaker 3: Thanks, I really really appreciate the chance. 1310 01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:23,320 Speaker 1: That was. Doctor Billy Garvey his book, which I have 1311 01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:25,680 Speaker 1: listened to now twice, is called Ten Things I Wish 1312 01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:27,280 Speaker 1: You Knew about your Child's Mental Health. 1313 01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:29,440 Speaker 2: It's excellent if you. 1314 01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:31,680 Speaker 1: Want a podcast that He's a part of it's called 1315 01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:32,920 Speaker 1: pop culture parenting. 1316 01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:33,560 Speaker 3: It's very good. 1317 01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:35,160 Speaker 1: It does a Q and a episode as well with 1318 01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:38,080 Speaker 1: each other one. It's really good stuff. 1319 01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:39,480 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. 1320 01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,000 Speaker 1: You can check the story Club YouTube page and the 1321 01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:43,640 Speaker 1: show notes. That's where you can also get a copy 1322 01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:44,960 Speaker 1: of my books. 1323 01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:46,000 Speaker 2: Thanks for being a. 1324 01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:46,439 Speaker 3: Part of it. 1325 01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:49,440 Speaker 1: If this episode of this show brought you some value, 1326 01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:50,280 Speaker 1: please do share. 1327 01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:50,440 Speaker 3: It with someone. 1328 01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:53,000 Speaker 1: That's why you can support the show without giving us 1329 01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:53,479 Speaker 1: any money. 1330 01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:54,760 Speaker 2: But you're more than we going to give us money. 1331 01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:56,120 Speaker 2: If you want, I'll let you do that. 1332 01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:01,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, you can support the show by telling you mate, rating, commenting, subscribing, 1333 01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:03,920 Speaker 1: whatever you do, how you do, where you do it, 1334 01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:06,120 Speaker 1: please do it. You can also just take a photo 1335 01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:07,200 Speaker 1: of what you're looking at and send it to me 1336 01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,200 Speaker 1: because I'm really interested in where you listen to this show. 1337 01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,960 Speaker 1: I like to see how people use this in their day. 1338 01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:14,760 Speaker 1: A lot of usually a lot of dog walking, in laundry, 1339 01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:17,560 Speaker 1: sometimes dishes. I love being a part of domesticity. 1340 01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:18,200 Speaker 3: It's fun. 1341 01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:19,919 Speaker 2: Thanks for being a part of the show. 1342 01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:33,040 Speaker 3: I see it Monday.