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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, September ten, twenty twenty five. Is the COP

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Speaker 1: thirty one Climate Summit too big for Australia to handle?

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Speaker 1: Tender documents show the United Nations talkfest could attract more

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Speaker 1: than fifty thousand people to Adelaide. If Australia wins its

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Speaker 1: bid to host first, we have to fight off Turkey,

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Speaker 1: who also wants to host. Snowy Hydro workers will get

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Speaker 1: a pay rise worth twenty six point five percent over

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Speaker 1: four years to bring the twelve billion dollar renewable energy

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Speaker 1: project to life. That includes increased hourly productivity allowances and

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Speaker 1: comes after a hard headed union campaign for increased pay.

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Speaker 1: That story is live now at be Australian dot com

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Speaker 1: dot au. Dispossession and systemic racism, those ideas will be

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Speaker 1: sent to an overhaul of the Victorian curriculum for kids

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Speaker 1: in the earliest years of school. It's all part of

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Speaker 1: the Labour government's bid to move towards a treaty with

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Speaker 1: Indigenous people and a permanent elected representative body similar to

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Speaker 1: the mooted Voice to Parliament Today, Indigenous Affairs Editor Page

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Speaker 1: Taylor on history's delicate balance. The school curriculum when most

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Speaker 1: of us were in the classroom didn't really do Australian

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Speaker 1: history justice. There was a lot of drawing lines on

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Speaker 1: maps and human hovel and the gold Rush when I

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Speaker 1: was a kid. In fact, our history is rich with drama, romance,

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Speaker 1: tragedy and heroism, vicious colonial power struggles, guerrilla resistance warriors

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Speaker 1: like pemel woyan Jandamarra. The incredible seagoing adventures of navigational

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Speaker 1: genius is James Cook and William Bligh.

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Speaker 2: God damn your blood, darn with myns, God, damn your blackness.

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Speaker 3: Room, Christian cab that.

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Speaker 1: If you haven't heard it is a movie, you've got

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Speaker 1: to check out The Bounty from nineteen eighty four, Anthony

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Speaker 1: Hopkins as Bly and Mel Gibson as Mutiny Fletcher Christian.

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Speaker 1: It's got an incredible cast. The supporting actors include a

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Speaker 1: very young leam Nieson, Daniel Day Lewis and even Laurence Olivier.

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Speaker 4: I didn't do a subject called history at all.

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Speaker 1: Page Taylor is The Australian's Indigenous Affairs editor.

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Speaker 2: When I was in high school, there was a subject

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Speaker 2: called social studies, and I remember we learned a little

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Speaker 2: bit about contemporary Australia. We were taught about a debate

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Speaker 2: that was going on in public at the time about

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Speaker 2: whether or not it should be legal to be a

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Speaker 2: gay person.

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Speaker 4: In Western Australia.

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Speaker 2: Where I went to school, there was zero about Indigenous

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Speaker 2: history or the Frontier Wars.

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Speaker 1: It's a shame, isn't it, because it's actually quite exciting history.

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Speaker 1: You know, Americans have lent in to the study of

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Speaker 1: the wild West, as we used to call it. It

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Speaker 1: can be taught in a way that acknowledges both sides, really,

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Speaker 1: can't it, I think so.

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Speaker 2: I remember choosing Kings in Grass Castles for my book

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Speaker 2: club not that long ago, and feeling really embarrassed that

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Speaker 2: it had taken me so long to find that book

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Speaker 2: is a gripping story about white settlers making their way

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Speaker 2: across the country, a crocodile attack, these encounters with Aboriginal people.

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Speaker 2: It was a fascinating book and it made me a

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Speaker 2: bit sorry that I hadn't learnt it at school.

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Speaker 1: Australian history has been a hotly contested topic, and the

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Speaker 1: latest battle is unfolding in Victoria, where there are plans

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Speaker 1: for a dramatic rethink of how our history is taught

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Speaker 1: from the earliest years of formal education.

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Speaker 3: We walk on stolen land, a truth etched into the soil,

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Speaker 3: in the rivers that have carried stories of a people

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Speaker 3: for my Lenia, and in the skies that have witnessed

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Speaker 3: it all.

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Speaker 1: This is a voice actor reading from a document that's

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Speaker 1: now to become a guiding force in Victorian education.

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Speaker 3: The scars of colonial invasion, its massacres, violence, and relentless

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Speaker 3: erasia are not confined to the past. They reside in

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Speaker 3: the present, shaping the lives of first peoples in Victoria today.

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Speaker 1: It's from a report by the Yuruk Justice Commission, the

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Speaker 1: Victorian Royal Commission that was created by Labor Premier Daniel

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Speaker 1: Andrews in twenty twenty one to create an official public

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Speaker 1: record of first people's experience of what the report calls

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Speaker 1: systemic injustice. Since the start of colonization.

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Speaker 3: Colonial systems have shape shifted, but never relinquished their grip.

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Speaker 3: From the first footsteps of invaders to the halls of

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Speaker 3: contemporary power, the machinery of dispossession persists.

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Speaker 2: The europe report doesn't pull any punches it's very direct language.

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Speaker 2: So for example, at one point, the Commission says that

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Speaker 2: across its extensive body of work, which went from twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two to twenty twenty four, York has consistently found

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Speaker 2: that the injustice is faced by First People's in Victoria,

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Speaker 2: and they're talking about modern day injustices flow directly from colonization.

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Speaker 2: So that's a view that I think is quite contentious

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Speaker 2: with many Australians. They're talking about the things we see

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Speaker 2: in the closing the Gut Report, over representation.

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Speaker 4: In jails, low birth weights, the fact.

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Speaker 2: That children aren't as ready for year one as they

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Speaker 2: ought to be, the suicide rates. York Reports links this

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Speaker 2: all directly to colonization and it's ongoing impact.

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Speaker 1: How do you think it will be infused into the

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Speaker 1: Victorian curriculum.

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Speaker 2: I think we're going to be a long time waiting

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Speaker 2: to find out the answer to that, because in the

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Speaker 2: document before the Victorian Parliament, in the bill, it says

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Speaker 2: that this is yet to be worked out between the

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Speaker 2: representative body, the First People's Body called Galongwill and the

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Speaker 2: various departments that have a say in this. So it's

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Speaker 2: going to be what they call code designed. I know

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Speaker 2: people's eyes glaze over when they hear the word code design.

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Speaker 2: It's become a little bit of a nothing word. But

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Speaker 2: what it basically means is they're going to sort it

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Speaker 2: out together and it's subject to the powers of the minister.

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Speaker 4: The Minister of the day.

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Speaker 2: Has the authority to say, actually, I don't like this

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Speaker 2: at all, try again, or yep, love it, let's go Paige.

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Speaker 1: In Victoria, like in the rest of Australia, we've seen

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Speaker 1: a reconsideration of history in the past few years, particularly

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Speaker 1: about some of the former superstars of history. For example,

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Speaker 1: there's a statue of Captain Cook in central Melbourne that's

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Speaker 1: been vandalized a number of times at Cook's cottage. They've

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Speaker 1: had to remove the statue for its own safety at times.

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Speaker 1: Do you think the Victorian education system is capable of

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Speaker 1: getting some kind of balance in the curriculum, so there

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Speaker 1: is an acknowledgment of the subtleties of our history of

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Speaker 1: looking fairly at the intentions of people like Captain Cook

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Speaker 1: and Arthur Phillip, for example, I think.

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Speaker 2: They need to and I suspect they know they need to,

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Speaker 2: because that's going to create a legitimacy for the rest

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Speaker 2: of the curriculum. I'm not a curriculum expert, but I

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Speaker 2: imagine there are going to be some pretty robust discussions

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Speaker 2: when this thing is co designed. There's nothing I've seen

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Speaker 2: in the bill which suggests a complete takeover of the

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Speaker 2: history curriculum, but how it's inserted and the context is

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Speaker 2: going to be crucial. I think what the government and

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Speaker 2: the Education Department will be keen to avoid is a

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Speaker 2: situation where parents are upset about what their children are learning.

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Speaker 2: They need to bring the parents with them so that

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Speaker 2: they can properly explain that this is adding to the

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Speaker 2: children's knowledge.

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Speaker 4: It needs to be understood that they're not replacing the

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Speaker 4: entire curriculum with.

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Speaker 2: A narrative about squatters and their insociable hunger for land

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Speaker 2: and how that displaced people and staffed them. Those things

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Speaker 2: did happen, but other things happened too. This Nation Leading

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Speaker 2: bill and the treaty process as a whole, shows what

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Speaker 2: we can achieve when we listen to first people's and

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Speaker 2: work together for better outcomes.

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Speaker 1: Victoria's still got a labor government now. The premier is

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Speaker 1: just into Allen and she's shipping in a big reform

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Speaker 1: program about Indigenous Affairs. It starts with a new body

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Speaker 1: called gellung Wil.

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Speaker 2: This is a body like nothing we've ever seen in Australia.

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Speaker 2: I'm quite sure this is unique, and that's because it

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Speaker 2: took so long to organize. This is a ten year

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Speaker 2: process and the traditional owners of Victoria got together with

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Speaker 2: the various aboriginal organizations and they've really thought about this

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Speaker 2: over a long period of time and it's all been

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Speaker 2: done in consultation with the Victorian government.

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Speaker 4: Until last year.

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Speaker 2: The opposition was on board too. I think the Victorian

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Speaker 2: government had a really they've got an interest in getting

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Speaker 2: this right, not only because they think it's the right

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Speaker 2: thing to do, but because I'm told repeatedly by people

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Speaker 2: in government that they want to get policy right. They

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Speaker 2: want to make informed decisions about where to put money.

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Speaker 2: They want to know what's working and what's not working.

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Speaker 4: But they don't know who to talk to.

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Speaker 2: It's an ad hoc system where people who are highly motivated,

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Speaker 2: highly mobile and with agency go to Parliament and say,

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Speaker 2: look what I'm doing. It's so good, but what about

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Speaker 2: the people who don't have, for one of a better word,

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Speaker 2: a voice. This is a representative body that is the

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Speaker 2: most comprehensive attempt at capturing every I think the government

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Speaker 2: sees it as a one stop shop on indigenous policy.

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Speaker 2: I think they believe it's going to make their job

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Speaker 2: a lot easier. I think they believe it's going to

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Speaker 2: save them a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: Victoria already has something called the First People's Assembly, which

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Speaker 1: is an elected body which already consults with government. What

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Speaker 1: will be the difference between that and Gellung While.

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Speaker 4: It's basically the same but expanded.

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Speaker 2: So the First People's Assembly was created specifically to do

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Speaker 2: this bill. It was put together for the purposes of

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Speaker 2: working out the treaty. And so what we're going to

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Speaker 2: see if this bill passes is a version of the

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Speaker 2: First People's Assembly, but it will have authority. It's going

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Speaker 2: to be able to make rules about who can and

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Speaker 2: cannot claim to be Aboriginal. It's going to have a

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Speaker 2: room in Parliament, access to Parliament. It's going to have

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Speaker 2: an accountability arm, so a commission off to the side

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Speaker 2: that can audit government departments. And this could be revolutionary

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Speaker 2: in some ways if this accountability mechanism get stuck into

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Speaker 2: underperforming bureaucrats and government agencies that are wasting money that

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Speaker 2: could be amazing page.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about that idea of who is identifying as

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Speaker 1: Indigenous now. Between twenty sixteen and twenty twenty one, the

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Speaker 1: census showed a big jump in the number of people

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Speaker 1: identifying as Aboriginal. There's been contention about why that was happening.

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Speaker 1: Some people have said it's because there was less shame

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Speaker 1: attached to having Aboriginal heritage. People more and more proud

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Speaker 1: of that and were more willing to put it in

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Speaker 1: the census. Other people have suggested different motives for people

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Speaker 1: identifying as Indigenous, like perhaps being able to apply for

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Speaker 1: jobs that they might not be able to get if

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Speaker 1: they weren't. How hot is this as an issue within

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Speaker 1: the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community and why would

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Speaker 1: it be something that the government would want this new

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Speaker 1: body to take a look out?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think Aboriginal people understand that the government has

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Speaker 2: these dedicated positions. Sometimes, you know, they want to hire

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Speaker 2: an Indigenous person for a particular job.

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Speaker 4: They can do that. The Commonwealth has the.

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Speaker 2: Power to do that and you can see those jobs

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Speaker 2: advertised sometimes. But the government doesn't want to be giving

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Speaker 2: these jobs to people who aren't recognized by their community

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Speaker 2: as Indigenous. In my round in Indigenous affairs, I'm quite

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Speaker 2: often fielding calls and emails and correspondents from Aboriginal people

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Speaker 2: who are pretty concerned that someone is in a position

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Speaker 2: where their aboriginality matters. It's part of their career, and

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Speaker 2: there are people in the community who aren't even sure

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Speaker 2: if this person is Indigenous or not. And this organization,

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Speaker 2: gallong While is going to have the authority to create

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Speaker 2: a uniform guideline rule standard, and that's going to make

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Speaker 2: I think some of the criticism damp and down about

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Speaker 2: whether or not someone's in a position that they shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be in if the test is standard.

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Speaker 4: Coming up.

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Speaker 1: What would a treaty actually look like? What would a

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Speaker 1: treaty mean in Victoria?

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Speaker 2: The treaty Bill we've seen in the Parliament this week

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Speaker 2: is not your traditional treaty where an amount of money

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Speaker 2: and some land is exchanged and that's the end of it.

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Speaker 2: It's an ongoing arrangement to do things in partnership. And

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Speaker 2: I think there are some romantic ideas around about what

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Speaker 2: a treaty is, but the modern treaty, constitutional experts tell me,

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Speaker 2: is just so different to the kinds of treaties that

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Speaker 2: were made in North America. When those treaties were made

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Speaker 2: in the early days of the settlement of North America,

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Speaker 2: it was two people who were trying to work out

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Speaker 2: how they can get the most out of their arrangement

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Speaker 2: with each other, and there was no government structure over

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Speaker 2: the top of it. You know, this has all had

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Speaker 2: to be done within the laws that have existed for

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Speaker 2: a long time in this country.

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Speaker 1: There's been a shift in the political landscape over the

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Speaker 1: past ten years when it comes to these issues. The

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Speaker 1: Victorian Liberals previously supported the idea of progress towards a

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Speaker 1: treaty and a first People's Assembly. Now they don't support it.

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Speaker 1: Of course, there was a national referendum in the past

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Speaker 1: couple of years about creating a federal voice to Parliament

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Speaker 1: and that was rejected. So what do you think of

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Speaker 1: the prospects of this actually coming to life and how

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Speaker 1: do you think Victorians are going to receive it.

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Speaker 2: I think there are people in the state opposition in

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Speaker 2: Victoria who are pragmatic about this. They knew for a

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Speaker 2: long time that there was something very good about having

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Speaker 2: a representative body that they could go to on indigenous policy,

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Speaker 2: and they did when they were in opposition. They relied

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Speaker 2: on the First People's Assembly for advice and guidance and

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Speaker 2: I think they got a lot out of it, or.

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Speaker 4: They told me they did.

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Speaker 2: But this got very hot during the referendum campaign. The

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Speaker 2: First People's Assembly, the body put together to do this treaty,

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Speaker 2: began to look a lot like a voice, not a

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Speaker 2: constitutionally enshrined one, but a voice nonetheless, and it was

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Speaker 2: pretty inconvenient for the Victorian opposition to be backing it,

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Speaker 2: and that's what I saw play out. I think the

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Speaker 2: state opposition may very well vote against it, but I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't be surprised if they use it the next time

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Speaker 2: they're in government.

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Speaker 1: H Taylor is The Australian's Indigenous Affairs editor. You can

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Speaker 1: read all about this story right now at the Australian

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Speaker 1: dot com dot a