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Michael Thompson: PwC  sidelines  nine  leaders  as  Prime  Minister  Anthony  Albanese  weighs 

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Michael Thompson: into  the  scandal- ridden  firm.  Australia's  most  popular  premier,  Mark 

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Michael Thompson: McGowan  from  WA,  resigns.  And  a  last  minute  intervention  in 

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Michael Thompson: an  effort  to  stop  a  big  jump  in  HECS  bills.


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Michael Thompson: It's  Tuesday,  the  30th  of  May,  2023.  Welcome  to  Fear & 

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Michael Thompson: Greed,  Australia's  most  popular  business  podcast.  I'm  Michael  Thompson,  and 

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Michael Thompson: good  morning,  Sean  Aylmer.

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Sean Aylmer: Good  morning,  Michael.

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Michael Thompson: Sean,  your  interview  today  is  with  someone  who's  very  well 

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Michael Thompson: known  in  the  business  world.  You're  speaking  with  Bernie  Brooks, 

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Michael Thompson: the  former  CEO  of  Myer,  and  now  the  chair  of  ASX-

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Michael Thompson: listed  Dotz  Nano.

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Sean Aylmer: Yep.  It's  a  great  chat  with  Bernie,  all  about  carbon 

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Sean Aylmer: capture  and  storage,  which  has  got  nothing  to  do  with 

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Sean Aylmer: retailing,  let's  face  it.  Anyway,  Bernie  has  a  passion  for 

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Sean Aylmer: the  environment  and  green  energy  and  the  need  to  actually 

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Sean Aylmer: reduce  carbon  emissions  and  reduce  carbon  from  the  atmosphere.  And 

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Sean Aylmer: that's  what  this  company's  all  about.  A  really  interesting  take 

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Sean Aylmer: on  it.  They're  using  a  technology  that  was  developed  actually 

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Sean Aylmer: in  Israel  and  they  hope  to  expand  it  here  in 

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Sean Aylmer: Australia.  Well  worth  a  listen.

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Michael Thompson: Yeah,  it's  a  really  good  one.  It's  coming  up  a 

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Michael Thompson: little  bit  later  on.  But  the  main  story  this  morning, 

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Michael Thompson: Sean,  really  it's  the  saga  that  just  keeps  on  going; 

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Michael Thompson: embattled  consulting  giant  PwC  Australia  will  put  nine  senior  partners 

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Michael Thompson: on  leave  and  ringfence  its  federal  government  advisory  business,  as 

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Michael Thompson: Prime  Minister  Anthony  Albanese  weighs  in  calling  the  scandal " a 

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Michael Thompson: terrible  indictment  of  the  firm."  Jeez,  he  didn't  miss.

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Sean Aylmer: No,  he  didn't.  It's  a  mess.  PwC  is  trying  to 

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Sean Aylmer: demonstrate  to  clients,  including  the  federal  government  of  course,  that 

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Sean Aylmer: it's  taking  decisive  action  over  its  ongoing  tax  leak  scandal. 

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Sean Aylmer: Now,  according  to  the  Financial  Review,  the  partners  of  PwC 

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Sean Aylmer: met  yesterday,  and  during  it  the  Chair,  Tracy  Kennair,  and 

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Sean Aylmer: its  Governance  Board  Risk  Chairman,  Paddy  Carney,  stepped  down.  Two 

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Sean Aylmer: independent  non- executive  directors  have  been  appointed  to  the  board. 

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Sean Aylmer: Now  that's  the  first  time  you've  seen  independent  non- executive 

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Sean Aylmer: directors  at  one  of  these  firm's  boards.  The  hope  is 

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Sean Aylmer: that  the  announcement  will  calm  clients,  particularly  Canberra.
 For  those 

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Sean Aylmer: who  haven't  been  following  this  story,  in  short...  Very  much 

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Sean Aylmer: the  elevator  pitch  version  here,  Michael;  dozens  of  PwC  partners 

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Sean Aylmer: received  emails  related  to  plans  to  use  confidential  government  tax 

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Sean Aylmer: policy  information  to  win  new  clients.  That  happened  quite  a 

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Sean Aylmer: few  years  ago.  Anyway,  it  has  evolved  into  the  scandal 

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Sean Aylmer: it  is  today.
 Yesterday,  Prime  Minister  Albanese  said  what  went 

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Sean Aylmer: on  was  totally  unacceptable  and  he  wants  the  list  of 

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Sean Aylmer: PwC  employees  allegedly  involved  in  the  tax  advice  scandal  to 

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Sean Aylmer: be  made  public.  Now,  federal  police  are  investigating  following  a 

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Sean Aylmer: referral  by  the  Treasury  Department,  and  recently  the  Greens  sought 

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Sean Aylmer: to  release  the  list  of  names  of  employees  who  had 

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Sean Aylmer: those  leaked  confidential  emails.  But  Finance  Department  officials  said  naming 

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Sean Aylmer: the  partners  involved  in  the  tax  advice  scandal  could  actually 

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Sean Aylmer: disrupt  the  criminal  investigation.  So  that  hasn't  happened  yet.

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Michael Thompson: Now  Sean,  PwC  is  obviously  a  giant, right? But  I  mean  the 

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Michael Thompson: scale  of  this  issue,  of  this  scandal,  is  pretty  much 

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Michael Thompson: unprecedented.  So  I  guess  the  question  is,  will  PwC  survive?

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Sean Aylmer: It's  a  fair  question.  It'll  probably  survive,  but  in  what 

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Sean Aylmer: form?  Will  it  have  to  separate  its  audit  and  consulting 

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Sean Aylmer: business?  Will  it  keep  its  partners?  Will  it  keep  its 

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Sean Aylmer: clients?  And  I'm  not  just  talking  about  the  government  here. 

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Sean Aylmer: There  are  plenty  of  stories  around  at  the  moment  suggesting 

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Sean Aylmer: that  corporate  Australia  isn't  happy  working  with  PwC.  Could  you 

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Sean Aylmer: imagine  if  some  of  those  firms  where  the  governance  expert 

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Sean Aylmer: says  to  the  CEO, " Are  we  happy  working  with  PwC?" And 

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Sean Aylmer: the  CEO  says " Yes."  And  the  governance  expert  goes, " Really?" 

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Sean Aylmer: I  think  that  a  lot  of  those  discussions  will  be 

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Sean Aylmer: taking  place.  My  best  guess  is  PWC  will  survive,  but 

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Sean Aylmer: it  will  never  be  the  same.

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Michael Thompson: Yeah,  it's  a  tough  one,  isn't  it?  When  kind  of 

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Michael Thompson: PwC  has  built  its  reputation  on  auditing  and  governance  and 

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Michael Thompson: all  of  that,  to  have  this  kind  of  going.  This 

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Michael Thompson: is  a  saga  that  we  will  be  talking  about  for 

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Michael Thompson: some  time.

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Sean Aylmer: Yeah.  And  all  these  big  consulting  firms  and  the  audit 

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Sean Aylmer: firms  particularly,  it's  all  about  integrity.  And  this  just  goes 

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Sean Aylmer: to  that  very  point.

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Michael Thompson: All  right,  local  markets,  Sean.  What  happened  yesterday?

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Sean Aylmer: It was  a  much  better  day,  with  the  S& P/ ASX200 

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Sean Aylmer: finishing  up  0. 9%  to 7, 217  points.  It  was  higher 

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Sean Aylmer: earlier  in  the  day  on  the  back  of  relief  about 

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Sean Aylmer: the  debt  ceiling  deal  announced  in  the  US  over  the 

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Sean Aylmer: weekend,  but  then  fell  back  during  trading.  It  was  a 

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Sean Aylmer: very  broad- based  rally  with  75%  of  stocks  rising.  The 

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Sean Aylmer: notable  laggards  were  tech  stocks,  which  have  done  very  well 

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Sean Aylmer: in  recent  sessions,  so  I'm  probably  not  surprised  to  see 

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Sean Aylmer: them  fall  back  a  bit.
 Not  sure  that  I've  seen 

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Sean Aylmer: this  before,  Michael,  but  the  top  nine  companies...  So  that's 

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Sean Aylmer: the  big  four  banks, BHP,  CSL,  Macquarie  Bank,  Woodside,  and  Fortescu 

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Sean Aylmer: Metals,  all  rose  more  than  1%.  There's  plenty  of  corporate 

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Sean Aylmer: news  around;  AMP  jumped  after  announcing  a  series  of  executive 

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Sean Aylmer: changes  and  saying  it's  going  to  dissolve  its  Australian  wealth 

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Sean Aylmer: management  structure.  Select  Harvest  climbed  also  after  flagging  improved  conditions 

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Sean Aylmer: for  its  2024  crop.  Humm  Group  jumped  10%  after  the 

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Sean Aylmer: Australian  Securities  Investments  Commission  revoked  the  stop  order  placed  on 

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Sean Aylmer: Humms  by- now- pay- later  subsidiary.  It  had  put  that 

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Sean Aylmer: on  Friday.  That  didn't  help  Humm  anyway,  it  revoked  it 

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Sean Aylmer: over  the  weekend.  So  its  share  price  jumped.
 IDP  Education, 

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Sean Aylmer: that  was  the  standout.  Its  share  price  fell  16%  following 

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Sean Aylmer: Canada's  decision  to  allow  competitors  to  enter  the  student  direct 

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Sean Aylmer: stream  component  of  student  visas.  In  short,  investors  think  that's 

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Sean Aylmer: really  going  to  hurt  IDP  Education's  bottom  line.  Also  ALS 

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Sean Aylmer: dropped  4%  even  though  it  said  that  net  profit  would 

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Sean Aylmer: be  up  about  23%.

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Michael Thompson: Ouch.  Now,  Sean,  we're  all  still  waiting  to  see  what 

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Michael Thompson: happens  on  international  markets.

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Sean Aylmer: Yes.  I  mean,  there  are  holidays  in  the  United  Kingdom 

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Sean Aylmer: and  on  Wall  Street  overnight,  so  we  don't  quite  know 

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Sean Aylmer: how  equity  markets  will  respond  to  the  debt  ceiling  solution 

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Sean Aylmer: until  tonight  at  least.
 One  proxy  though  is  cryptocurrencies.  Now 

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Sean Aylmer: they  always  trade.  Bitcoin  climbed  to  its  highest  level  in 

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Sean Aylmer: more  than  two  weeks  yesterday,  amid  a  boost  to  investor 

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Sean Aylmer: sentiment  as  a  result  of  the  debt  ceiling  deal.  It 

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Sean Aylmer: jumped  more  than  3%  yesterday  to  above  28,000  US  dollars 

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Sean Aylmer: a  unit.  Other  smaller  tokens  also  did  pretty  well.  Bitcoin's 

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Sean Aylmer: now  on  a  five- day  streak  of  gains,  which  is 

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Sean Aylmer: its  best  since  March.
 Another  proxy  for  risk  of  course 

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Sean Aylmer: is  oil.  It's  also  a  higher,  and  aren't  we  seeing 

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Sean Aylmer: it  at  the  petrol  bowser?  I  bring  this  up  because, 

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Sean Aylmer: Michael,  I  filled  up  on  Saturday,  165. 9.  Sunday  I 

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Sean Aylmer: was with  one  of  the  kids,  they  went  to  fill  up.  205.

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Sean Aylmer: 9,  same  petrol  station.

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Michael Thompson: Oh,  a  40  cent  jump.

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Sean Aylmer: 40  cents.  Yeah.  50  liter  tank  who  are  not  that 

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Sean Aylmer: I'm  counting  or  anything.  What's  that?  50  liter  tank, 40 cents. $ 20  extra.

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Michael Thompson: Hang  on.  When  you  say  it  was  one  of  the 

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Michael Thompson: kids,  this  is  one  of  your  adult  kids.

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Sean Aylmer: Of  course  I  paid.

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Michael Thompson: That  was  where  I  was  going.  Surely  you  could  just  go, "

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Michael Thompson: Hey,  you  know  what?  There's $ 20  difference  here.  I  think 

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Michael Thompson: you  kind  of  chip  in  the  balance."

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Sean Aylmer: Why  is  it  when  you,  with  the  kids  in  the 

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Sean Aylmer: car  and  they're  driving  you,  they  always  find  a  petrol  station?

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Michael Thompson: They  couldn't  have  found  it  on  Saturday  when  it  was 

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Michael Thompson: a  dollar  65.

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Sean Aylmer: No,  no.  Well  obviously  they  had  plenty  petrol,  didn't  they?

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Michael Thompson: Yeah,  of  course.  Until  dad's  in  the  car  and  the 

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Michael Thompson: credit  card's  in  the  car.

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Sean Aylmer: That's  exactly  right.  And  finally,  Michael,  the  Aussie  dollars  buying 

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Sean Aylmer: about  65  and  a  half  US  cents.

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Michael Thompson: All  right,  we'll  be  back  in  a  moment  with  the 

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Michael Thompson: rest  of  the  day's  business  news.
 Sean,  the  big  story 

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Michael Thompson: in  politics.  The  country's  most  popular  premier,  Mark  McGowan  from 

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Michael Thompson: WA,  has  resigned  saying  he  wants  to  be  remembered  as 

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Michael Thompson: an  achiever  and  needs  to  step  down  before  signs  of 

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Michael Thompson: his  exhaustion  begins  showing.

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Sean Aylmer: That's  right.  Yesterday  he  came  and he  just  said  he's  tired. 

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Sean Aylmer: He  just  wants  to  get  out.  He  is  the  most 

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Sean Aylmer: popular  premier,  at  least  within  their  own  state,  and  said 

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Sean Aylmer: it's  been  an  honor  and  privilege  to  serve  the  people 

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Sean Aylmer: of  Western  Australia.
 McGowan  entered  state  politics  in  1996.  He 

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Sean Aylmer: was  first  elected  premier  in  2017.  He  won  a  massive 

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Sean Aylmer: victory  again  in  2021.  I  might  be  wrong,  but  certainly 

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Sean Aylmer: one  of  the  all- time  largest  victory  margins  over  the 

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Sean Aylmer: Coalition.  Perhaps  he'll  be  best  remembered  for  how  he  handled 

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Sean Aylmer: himself  and  his  jurisdiction  during  COVID;  he  effectively  sealed  off 

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Sean Aylmer: the  state.  He  ended  up  in  a  legal  dispute  with 

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Sean Aylmer: Clive  Palmer.  A  lot  of  businesses  were  very  upset  with 

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Sean Aylmer: him  because  of  the  way  that  they  couldn't  trade  across 

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Sean Aylmer: borders.  However,  Western  Australia  did  pretty  well  during  COVID,  at 

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Sean Aylmer: least  in  terms  of  health.  And  certainly  the  electorate  supported 

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Sean Aylmer: what  he  was  doing.
 There  was  plenty  of  plaits  for 

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Sean Aylmer: Mr.  McGowan  yesterday.  Prime  Minister  Anthony  Albanese  congratulated  him  on 

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Sean Aylmer: his  tenure  as  the  state's  leader,  saying  he  improved  lives 

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Sean Aylmer: and  created  progress  on  social  media.  Fellow  labor  premier  from 

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Sean Aylmer: Queensland,  Anastasia  Palaszczuk,  said  it  was  a  pleasure  working  with 

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Sean Aylmer: McGowan,  describing  him  as  tireless.

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Michael Thompson: It  is  really  kind  of  how  you'd  want  to  go 

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Michael Thompson: out,  isn't  it,  in  politics  or  in  business?  You  kind 

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Michael Thompson: of  want  to  go  out  while  you're  still  on  top.

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Sean Aylmer: Absolutely.  And  he  said  yesterday  he  just  didn't  think  he 

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Sean Aylmer: had  the  energy  to  keep  going.  He  said  that  every 

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Sean Aylmer: day  he's  fighting  a  battle,  which  is  what  leaders  of 

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Sean Aylmer: countries  and  states  do.  And  I  think  he's  just  had  enough.

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Michael Thompson: And  surely  any  leader  who  led,  whether  it's  state  or 

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Michael Thompson: federally,  through  COVID  that  would've  aged  them  about  kind  of 

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Michael Thompson: four  years  for  every  one.

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Sean Aylmer: Yeah,  I  admire...  I  mean,  whatever  side  of  politics  they're 

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Sean Aylmer: in,  the  good  ones  really  do  dedicate  their  lives  to 

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Sean Aylmer: public  service  and  I  admire  it  totally.  And  it  must 

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Sean Aylmer: be  an  incredibly  difficult,  worrying,  and  aging  job.

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Michael Thompson: Yes,  indeed.  All  right.  Now  Sean,  the  chief  executive  of  low-

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Michael Thompson: cost  airline  Jetstar,  Stephanie  Tulley,  has  blamed " unique  supply  chain 

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Michael Thompson: issues"  for  its  ongoing  problems  and  apologized  to  customers.

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Sean Aylmer: Don't  you  like  that?  Unique  supply  chain  issues.

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Michael Thompson: I'd  love  to  know  more  about  these  unique  supply  chain  issues.

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Sean Aylmer: Yes.  Yeah,  exactly.  She  also  promised  a  return  to  pre-

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Sean Aylmer: pandemic  service  standards  by  the  middle  of  2023.  She  said 

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Sean Aylmer: fixing  the  operational  performance  of  the  Qantas  subsidiary  was  her 

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Sean Aylmer: main  priority.  The  airline  canceled  one  in  every  12  flights 

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Sean Aylmer: last  month,  and  more  than  40%  of  its  flights  experienced 

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Sean Aylmer: delays  when  the  industry  average  is  closer  to  30%.  40% 

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Sean Aylmer: is  bad,  industry  average  30.  Don't  think  that's so  good  either, 

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Sean Aylmer: to  be  perfectly  honest.
 Anyway,  Ms.  Tulley  said  bringing  forward  check-

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Sean Aylmer: in  times,  things  like  that,  were  helping  improve  performance,  although 

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Sean Aylmer: the  more  significant  factor  was  supply  chain  bottlenecks  holding  up 

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Sean Aylmer: critical  mechanical  fixes.  And  Michael,  because  I  know  you  love  planes.

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Michael Thompson: I  do.

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Sean Aylmer: Yes.  So  Tulley  yesterday  was  next  to  the  outgoing  Qantas 

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Sean Aylmer: chief  executive  Alan  Joyce.  They  were  farewelling  the  group's  final 

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Sean Aylmer: Boeing  717  aircraft.  It's  been  in  service  for  19  years. 

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Sean Aylmer: It's  been  sold  to  a  North  American  carrier.  There  you  go.

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Michael Thompson: Oh,  I  suppose  I  mean,  remember  when  Qantas  had  retired 

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Michael Thompson: its  last  747?

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Sean Aylmer: Yes.

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Michael Thompson: And  that  was  very  dramatic.  And  there  was  all  the 

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Michael Thompson: kind  of  the  Flybys  and  all  of  that  kind  of 

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Michael Thompson: thing.  They  managed  to  sneak  this  one  out  fairly  quietly, 

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Michael Thompson: didn't  they?

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Sean Aylmer: Yeah,  well.  Yeah. I think  717  isn't  quite  the  747  though.

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Michael Thompson: I  know.  But  I  think  every  aircraft  needs  a  proper 

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Michael Thompson: sendoff,  Sean.
 Financial  Services  Minister  Steven  Jones  says  the  government 

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Michael Thompson: is  looking  to  partner  with  private  companies  to  build  disaster 

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Michael Thompson: resilience  and  improve  the  affordability  of  insurance.  That's  a  big  one.

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Sean Aylmer: Yes.  Speaking  at  the  Actuary's  Institute  conference  in  Sydney  yesterday, 

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Sean Aylmer: he  said  that  as  climate  change  worsens,  it's  Australians  least 

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Sean Aylmer: able  to  afford  insurance  that  are  suffering  most  from  natural 

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Sean Aylmer: disasters.  He  also  called  on  the  insurance  industry  to  up 

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Sean Aylmer: its  game  on  recognizing  clients'  work  to  minimize  the  risk 

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Sean Aylmer: of  damage  to  their  homes.  He  said,  by  doing  this 

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Sean Aylmer: insurers  can  play  in  helping  address  under- insurance,  non- insurance, 

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Sean Aylmer: and  the  affordability  of  protection.

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Michael Thompson: Defense  Minister  Richard  Marles  has  rejected  claims  Australia  is  scaling 

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Michael Thompson: down  the  support  it's  been  giving  Ukraine's  defense  forces.

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Sean Aylmer: Marles  said  the  federal  government  is  delivering  the  military  assistance 

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Sean Aylmer: it's  announced  for  Ukraine  on  the  timeline  it's  set,  and 

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Sean Aylmer: Australia  stands  shoulder  to  shoulder  with  a  European  nation.  Australia's 

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Sean Aylmer: providing  training  assistance  primarily  to  Ukraine.  That's  been  ramped  up 

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Sean Aylmer: since  the  beginning  of  the  year.  Marles  said  Australia  is 

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Sean Aylmer: working  closely  with  Ukraine,  but  he  wouldn't  comment  on  speculation 

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Sean Aylmer: that  Canberra  will  soon  provide  additional  military  support.

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Michael Thompson: Now,  Sean,  our  sister  podcast, " How  Do  They  Afford  That?" 

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Michael Thompson: with  Canna  Campbell,  the  founder  of  Sugar  Mama  TV.  It 

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Michael Thompson: comes  out  every  Wednesday.  But  the  current  episode  that's  available 

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Michael Thompson: is  all  about  HECS  debts.  And  basically  what  to  do 

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Michael Thompson: about  kind  of  skyrocketing  HECS  debts  that  are  actually  growing 

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Michael Thompson: quite  quickly  now  after  such  a  long  period  where  they 

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Michael Thompson: didn't  move  much  at  all.  Because  from  this  week,  about 

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Michael Thompson: 3  million  people  will  start  getting  higher  HECS  bills.  The 

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Michael Thompson: latest  development  on that is that  crossbench  MPs  are  pushing  the  Albanese  government 

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Michael Thompson: to  intervene.

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Sean Aylmer: So  the  indexation  of  university  debt  repayments  is  tied  to 

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Sean Aylmer: inflation,  and  the  higher  rate  kicks  in  from  June  1, 

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Sean Aylmer: Thursday.  Increased  repayments  on  the  higher  education  loans  program  debts 

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Sean Aylmer: will  average $1, 769  a  year  when  the  7. 1%  indexation 

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Sean Aylmer: kicks  in.  The  debts  don't  attract  interest,  but  they  are 

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Sean Aylmer: indexed  to  inflation  based  on  the  consumer  price  index.  Last 

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Sean Aylmer: year  for  example,  the  hike  was  nearly  4%.
 Several  Crossbench 

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Sean Aylmer: MPs  have  now  come  out  and  written  to  the  Prime 

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Sean Aylmer: Minister  and  Minister  for  Education  Jason  Clare  about  it,  saying 

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Sean Aylmer: larger  debts  take  much  longer  to  pay  off  and  student 

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Sean Aylmer: debt  is  becoming  a  lifelong  burden  for  too  many.  I 

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Sean Aylmer: think  it'll  be  interesting  to  see  what  happens  on  this  one.

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Michael Thompson: Yeah,  absolutely.  And  if  you've  got  anyone  in  your  household 

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Michael Thompson: or  if  you  are  kind  of  paying  off  a  HECS 

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Michael Thompson: debt,  Sean,  that  episode  of  How  Do  They  Afford  That 

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Michael Thompson: is  definitely  worth  a  listen.  Canna  has  a  really  interesting 

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Michael Thompson: take  on  it  all.
 In  international  news  now,  Sean,  Turkey's 

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Michael Thompson: president  Recep  Erdoğan  has  extended  his  rule  into  a  third 

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Michael Thompson: decade,  comfortably  beating  his  rival  in  an  acrimonious  runoff  election.

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Sean Aylmer: Erdoğan  had  secured  about  52.1%  of  the  vote  with  almost 

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Sean Aylmer: all  the  counting  complete,  according  to  Turkey's  election  board.  That 

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Sean Aylmer: runoff  victory  caps  an  extraordinary  campaign  for  Erdoğan,  who  went 

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Sean Aylmer: into  this  election  cycle  at  his  most  vulnerable  since  he 

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Sean Aylmer: first  became  Turkey's  leader  back  in  2003.
 The  country  is 

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Sean Aylmer: gripped  by  an  acute  cost  of  living  crisis.  The  opposition 

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Sean Aylmer: was  much  better  organized  than  normally.  In  fact,  there  was 

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Sean Aylmer: a  real  chance  that  Erdoğan  wasn't  going  to  win,  and 

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Sean Aylmer: Sunday's  second  round  vote  was  billed  as  a  referendum  on 

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Sean Aylmer: Turkey's  future.  Exactly  100  years  after  the  Republic  was  founded 

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Sean Aylmer: by  Atatürk, Erdoğan  won.

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Michael Thompson: Sean,  Russian  forces  pounded  Ukraine's  capital  Kyiv  yesterday  in  what 

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Michael Thompson: local  officials  described  as " The  largest  kamikaze  drone  attack  since 

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Michael Thompson: Moscow  launched  its  full- scale  invasion  of  the  country  15 

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Michael Thompson: months  ago."

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Sean Aylmer: Officials  said  Ukraine's  Air  Defense  Systems  had  downed 58 of  59  incoming 

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Sean Aylmer: drones  launched  against  Ukrainian  targets,  with  40  downed  in  Kyiv 

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Sean Aylmer: alone.  The  attack  came  as  the  city  prepared  for  the 

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Sean Aylmer: annual  Kyiv  Day  celebrations  held  to  mark  its  founding.  Now, 

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Sean Aylmer: it  was  the  14th  air  attack  on  the  capital  since 

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Sean Aylmer: the  beginning  of  May.  The  engines  of  the  drones  apparently 

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Sean Aylmer: were  audible  following  the  air  raid  sirens,  followed  by  the 

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Sean Aylmer: sound  of  machine  gunfire,  service  to  air  defense  systems,  and 

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Sean Aylmer: fighter  jets  seeking  to  intercept  them.  Officials  reported  damage  across 

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Sean Aylmer: the  capital  city.

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Michael Thompson: All  right,  one  more  to  finish  off  on,  Sean.  And 

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Michael Thompson: I  think  this  week  is  fast  becoming  the  week  of 

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Michael Thompson: unusual  stories.  I  didn't  think  you  could  top  yesterday's  effort, 

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Michael Thompson: because  we  started  the  week  with  the  Indian  food  inspector 

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Michael Thompson: who  had  a  dam  drained,  I  think  it  was,  so 

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Michael Thompson: that  he  could  find  his  phone  that  he  dropped  into 

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Michael Thompson: the  water  while  he  was  taking  a  selfie.
 Now  this 

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Michael Thompson: story,  a  nun  has  moved  a  step  closer  to  sainthood 

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Michael Thompson: after  her  exhumed  body  showed  no  signs  of  decay  four 

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Michael Thompson: years  after  it  was  buried.

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Sean Aylmer: So  pilgrims  are  now  flocking  to  Missouri  in  the  US 

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Sean Aylmer: to  see  the  impeccably  well- preserved  body  of  Sister  Wilhelmina 

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Sean Aylmer: Lancaster,  according  to  the  Daily  Telegraph  of  London.  Sister  Wilhelmina, 

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Sean Aylmer: the  founder  of  the  Benedictine  Sisters  of  Mary  Queen  of 

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Sean Aylmer: the  Apostles  in  Missouri,  died  at  age  95  in  May, 

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Sean Aylmer: 2019.  Now,  she  was  buried  without  being  embalmed  in  a 

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Sean Aylmer: cracked  wooden  coffin,  which  exposed  her  body  to  moisture.  When 

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Sean Aylmer: her  remains  were  exhumed  on  May  18  this  year...  What's 

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Sean Aylmer: that,  four  years  later?  To  be  moved  to  the  monastery 

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Sean Aylmer: chapel  that  was  intended  to  be  her  final  resting  place, 

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Sean Aylmer: the  Benedictine  sisters  expected  to  find  bones.  However,  the  sisters 

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Sean Aylmer: instead  found  an  intact  body  and  habit  according  to  the 

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Sean Aylmer: Catholic  News  Agency.  According  to  the  sisters  who  witnessed  the 

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Sean Aylmer: exhumation...  Is  that  the  word?  Exhumation,  hard  word  to  say 

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Sean Aylmer: that,  isn't it?

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Michael Thompson: It  is  a  tough  one.

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Sean Aylmer: Yeah.  Anyway,  people  had  witnessed  digging  her  up.  The  ribbon, 

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Sean Aylmer: crucifix,  and  rosary  were  all  intact  as  was  the  veil, 

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Sean Aylmer: while  the  body  was  unchanged.  Now  the  lining  of  the 

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Sean Aylmer: coffin  had  disintegrated.
 You  know  about  this  story?  It's  a 

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Sean Aylmer: cracker,  I  do  get  it.  But  you've  just...

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Michael Thompson: Ye  of  little  faith.

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Sean Aylmer: I  just  don't  know.  All  the  sources  from,  this  seems 

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Sean Aylmer: to  be  part  of  the  community  of  Sister  Wilhelmina,  but 

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Sean Aylmer: I'd  like  to  see  a  bit  of  independent  verification.

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Michael Thompson: Oh  really?  You're  suggesting  there's...

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Sean Aylmer: Maybe  that's  unfair.

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Michael Thompson: A  little  bit  of  creative  kind  of  retelling  of  the  story?

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Sean Aylmer: When  you're  a  journalist  for  a  long  time  and  stuff 

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Sean Aylmer: happens,  you  just  think...  So  the  guy  that  drained  the 

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Sean Aylmer: Indian  dam,  I  kind  of  got  that  right  from  the 

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Sean Aylmer: get  go.  This  is  from  the  Daily  Telegraph  of  London. 

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Sean Aylmer: That  is  a  very,  very  reputable  paper.  So  we're  being 

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Sean Aylmer: serious  here.  But you  just  wonder.

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Michael Thompson: Yeah,  but  you  know  what  it  does  for  me  though, 

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Michael Thompson: Sean?  It  makes  me  realize  that  you  are  putting  yourself 

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Michael Thompson: under  enormous  pressure  to  top  this.  You  had  the bloke with the  dam 

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Michael Thompson: being  drained  yesterday. That's right.  Now  you've  got  the  nun  kind  of 

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Michael Thompson: in  impeccable  condition  four  years  after  death.  What  can  you 

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Michael Thompson: possibly  come  up  with  tomorrow  that  is  going  to  top 

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Michael Thompson: these  two?

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Sean Aylmer: Well  it's  something  that  we  will  all  be  looking  forward  to.

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Michael Thompson: Oh,  yeah.  I  will  be  listening.  I  mean,  obviously  I'll 

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Michael Thompson: be  listening  'cause  I'm  here  every  day.  But  I  will 

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Michael Thompson: be  paying  close  attention,  for  once.  Now  up  next  is 

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Michael Thompson: the  Fear &  Greed  daily  interview  with  Bernie  Brooks,  former  CEO 

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Michael Thompson: of  Myer,  now  the  chair  of  ASX- Listed  Dotz  Nano.

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Sean Aylmer: Yes.  All  about  carbon  capture  and  storage.  A  long,  long 

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Sean Aylmer: way  from  Myer.  Bernie  has  a  real  interest  in  the 

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Sean Aylmer: energy  transition  and  the  role  that  carbon  capture  and  storage 

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Sean Aylmer: can  play.  Had  a  great  chat  to  him  about  that, 

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Sean Aylmer: well  worth  the  listen,  I  say.

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Michael Thompson: Yeah,  I  agree.  It's  coming  up  next  in  the  Fear & 

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Michael Thompson: Greed  playlist  on  your  podcast  platform  or  at  fearandgreed. com.

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Michael Thompson: au.  Thank  you,  Sean.

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Sean Aylmer: Thank  you,  Michael.

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Michael Thompson: It's  Tuesday,  the  30th  of  May,  2023.  Make  sure  you're 

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Michael Thompson: following  the  podcast.  Join  us  online  on  LinkedIn, Instagram,  Twitter,  and 

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Michael Thompson: Facebook.  And  Sean,  tomorrow  we  need  to  have  a  MEA, 

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Michael Thompson: a  most  enthusiastic  advocate.  We  haven't  done  it  for  about 

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Michael Thompson: a  week.  It  just  keeps  slipping  my  mind.  So  if 

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Michael Thompson: you  want  to  nominate  yourself  for  our  MEA,  a  most 

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Michael Thompson: enthusiastic  advocate,  basically  a  Fear &  Greed  super  fan  who  tells 

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Michael Thompson: other  people  to  listen,  jump  onto  social  media,  jump  onto 

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Michael Thompson: our  website,  fearandgreed.comau.  But  any  of  those  social  media  platforms 

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Michael Thompson: and  let  us  know  and  we'll  be  appointing  awarding  a 

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Michael Thompson: MEA  tomorrow.
 Make  sure  you  stay  up  to  date  on 

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Michael Thompson: all  the  business  news  as  well  with  Alexa  and  your 

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Michael Thompson: Amazon  Echo  Smart  speaker.  Simply  say, " Alexa,  play  the  Fear & 

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Michael Thompson: Greed  podcast"  to  catch  the  latest  episode.  And  you  can 

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Michael Thompson: grab  yours  now  at  amazon. com. au.  I'm  Michael  Thompson 

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Michael Thompson: and  that  was  Fear &  Greed.  Have  a  great  day.