WEBVTT - Why David Pocock was booted from parliament's sports club 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:04.080 Darni. Last week we spoke to you about your story 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.520 on the Australian Parliament's Sports Club, how I was registered 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:10.440 as a lobby group and sponsored by the gambling industry. 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:12.920 So apart from everyone else reporting on that and not 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:16.280 giving you any credit, what's happened after you broke that story? 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:18.920 It blew up in a way that I didn't expect 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:19.200 it to. 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:24.920 Danielle say it is Kriik's media reporter and no stranger 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:25.560 to a scoop. 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:29.320 We spoke on Monday about this club that organized the 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:33.159 special games of sport between politicians and journalists and offers 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:36.080 corporate memberships that start reportedly at a cost of two 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:39.400 and a half thousand dollars. Amongst those corporate members who 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.559 is responsible Wagering Australia, which is a peak body for 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:46.360 the gambling industry that represents companies like sports Bet. 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:49.960 Darney reported to this sponsorship by the gambling industry and 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.800 the questions around lobbying. We're making some MPs who attended 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:54.880 very unhappy. 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.280 And in my piece we had a quote from David Pocock, 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.640 who's an independent senator for the ACT, who was really 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.600 critical of the relationship that the club has with the 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:10.479 gambling lobby. So he took that to a Senate estimates 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:14.480 hearing with Foreign Minister Penny Wongo's representing the PM. 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:16.080 Now, I know you want to get a grab ar, 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:19.880 but I don't know that the Parliamentary Sports Club is 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:21.440 a lobbying firm. 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:22.280 That it might not. 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:24.759 Basically, it was this back and forth over whether the 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.199 parliament Sports Club was a lobby organization and the function 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:29.880 that it had, and some of the transparency around that. 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.920 Is it's a Parliamentary sports club and it's not well 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.039 and it may be required the under the Code of 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:39.800 Conduct or whatever, the Code of lobbying what's called the 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:43.800 Register of Lobbyists to register. 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.280 I accept that that clip goes around the internet and 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:50.560 by Thursday he had been booted from the club. 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:54.040 This is when the story really. 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:57.080 Blows up, the idea that this ex Wallaby could be 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:58.360 booted out of the sports club. 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:07.400 I'm Vaniel James and you're listening to seven AM today, 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:11.320 Danny sayid, I'm the sports club that's just not cricket. 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:23.080 It's Friday, October seventy. There are a lot of peculiarities 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:25.840 about this story, but this one sort of does my heating. 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.320 So imagine booting one of the all time great back 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:32.400 railers from your team. What did the club organizers say 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:34.000 about why he was booted? 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:37.560 So the club organizer is a blow called Andy Turnbull, 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:42.760 and he said that David Pocock's position was untenable after 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.120 he had raised the issue in Senate Estimate. So he 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:49.239 gave a statement to Kriikee and he essentially said that 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:52.720 David Pocock, raising it in the manner that he did, 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.880 suggested that he had brought up the club into disrepute. 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:00.000 There ended up being a number of leagues of messages 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:04.840 between Andy Turnbull and David Pocock, and he actually describes 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:07.240 the sports club as the most a political organization in 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.360 the Parliament, and he wrote to David Pocock, sadly, this 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.040 week you've see our twenty years of serious effort to 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:15.680 bring a harmonious and fun environment to a small part 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.400 of each sitting day. You chose a cheap shot that 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:20.480 will have no effect on the outcome of your anti 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.560 gambling campaign. I'm sorry, it's reach's point, but you have 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:27.639 left me with no choice. Very stern, very stern, very stern. 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:29.480 It's I'm picking up my bat and ball and I'm 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:35.040 going home. Then there's the Prime Minister and his relationship 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:38.839 to the club, into Pocock, into Turnbull and he gets 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:42.040 asked about it on Friday morning up in Brisbane and 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:46.000 he says, the club presidency comes with the gig, David 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:50.920 Pocock being David Pocock, getting himself in a story. You know, 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:54.120 this is a voluntary organization. The inference being he is 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:57.080 accusing him of grandstanding, he's accusing him of being attention seeking. 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.240 And then he says, the amount of time I have 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:03.080 spent on the Australian Parliament Sports Club this year is zero. 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:07.440 I have participated in zero events in terms of sports, 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:08.640 just because I'm a bit. 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:10.880 Busy, because I'm just a little bit busy, which he 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:14.360 of course is as the PM. But past chairs of 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:18.080 the organization are people like Mel Braff and who's the 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:22.280 current director, people like Barnaby Joyce and Mick McCormack. It's 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:26.640 not necessarily a thing that comes by default when you're 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:30.600 the PM. And that is really really fascinating. This idea 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:34.680 that Albanizi has sort of raised of well I don't 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:36.800 get a choice is just part of it's just part 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.600 of it. The third part is the amount of time 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:41.600 I've spent on the Australian Parliament Sports Club this year 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:45.840 is zero. That's not strictly true, because he spoke at 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:48.679 the season launch of the sports club at the Press 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.560 Club two months ago, and we have photographs of him speaking, 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:54.320 and there are a number of other speakers, people like 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:57.800 stakeholders and industry bodies. Kay Campwell, who's the SEO of 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.760 Responsible Wagering Australia Capitol Brief reported was at that event 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:01.599 as well. 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:04.000 So do you think the Prime Minister is mistaken or 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.440 misleading when he says he's had zero involvement. 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:11.200 I think he's trying to minimize his relationship to the 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.240 club quite reason because obviously this is such a hot 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:16.880 button issue. I think it's slightly misleading in the spirit 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:18.560 of it in terms of passing and partists. I think 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:20.719 it is misleading. So suggest he spent zero time on 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:24.520 the club. I don't have any information to contradict the 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:27.880 idea that he has participated in zero events, but to 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:29.599 suggest that he's spent no time on it, that he 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:33.240 doesn't think about it, that he has no real substantive 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:35.359 relationship with it, which is what he's trying. In my 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.560 view to suggest here, I think that's misleading. 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:43.320 So putting that aside when it comes to David Pocock, 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:45.320 does he have a point? I mean Pocock would have 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:48.560 known about the sponsorship when he was playing in the club. 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.040 Right yeah, And I think this touches on a really 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:57.359 interesting sort of discussion that also negates a lot of 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:01.680 the arguments around the substantive impact blobbing here, right the 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:03.560 idea that David Pocock a would have known about the 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.680 sponsorship reasonably he would have and casual sports social sport 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:09.480 especially is a great tool for relationship building and it's 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.120 a really positive thing and there are lots of benefits 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.039 it does. It fundamentally does a really good thing for 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:18.520 relationships across the various people that work in Parliament House. 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:21.960 That's why he's sort of been inclined to stay in 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:26.240 the club and didn't resign voluntarily, and he sort of 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.360 wants there to be some sort of sporting for him. 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:31.520 Obviously, as wall we have seen the impact of that. 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:35.120 The interesting part is this counter argument that comes from 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:38.000 the likes of Andy Turnbull who say there's an unwritten 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:40.200 rule that you don't talk shop while you're playing sport 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:45.120 and that there's no real lobbying going on here. The 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:48.880 fact is that you form these relationships while you're playing sport, 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:51.200 and that's the point of the thing. You can't have 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.520 an organization that is based in relationship building that is 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:58.240 a positive thing, and simultaneously have that relationship building have 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.919 no impact. Otherwise your organization's pretty useless. That's the admission 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:02.640 you're making. 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:16.560 Coming up a club without a ball thief Danny. It 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.080 wasn't a great headline for the club when they booted 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:22.440 David Pocock, So what's been the fallout? 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:24.160 This is fascinating. 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:28.600 So a number of fellow mostly tier independent MPs have 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:32.080 followed his lead, so a Legraspender and Sophie Scomp's went 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:34.360 with him, and Nick Ryan had already quit at this 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:38.040 point by the time we had published and Alegraspender called 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.440 his ejection of disgrace. She said the sports club should 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.679 be about politicians love of sport, not their sad addiction 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:46.960 to the gambling lobby. I can't be a part of 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:50.040 a club that promotes the gambling lobby because it's such 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.720 a big headline and again completely in congruous for a 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:56.760 punter to see one of the only sort of able 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.840 sportsmen in Parliament. There's a couple of others kicking her, 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.680 but certainly one of the fittest and fastest in the. 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.840 Parliament be booted out of the club. 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.160 The Prime Minister is still called it absurd that it's 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.640 this sort of nefarious lobbying organization, but he suggests that 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:15.960 David Pocock should be allowed to play, and all of 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:21.040 a sudden, Andy Turnbull follows the PM's suggestion on Friday afternoon, 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:23.560 who sort of walks back some of that snark we 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:27.800 talked about and says, well, participation should be open to everyone. 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:30.440 Who am I to argue at the Prime Minister and 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:31.920 invites David. 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:36.000 Pocock back, So he's back in No, he. 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.280 Has come out and said that he won't redoin until 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:43.360 the club undertakes a transparent, open process to consider all 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:47.560 current and future sponsorships. There are rumblings that we're hearing 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:51.559 about what's going to happen sort of on the twenty 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.280 eighth or so in a couple of weeks when the 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.360 Parliament comes back and sits again. Is David Pocock just 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:59.280 going to show up on the lawns outside of the 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:03.040 Senate wing? What do you do when you know this, 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.400 this hulking back rower comes up to you and he says, 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:06.439 I'd like to play place. 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:07.840 Are you going to tell him no? 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.679 And so what is the club said? I mean, are 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:13.480 they war gaming this possibility? 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:14.439 I imagine they are. 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:19.720 But now they have deregistered the club as of Monday. 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:24.239 They say that they've deregistered the club on the basis 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:27.559 of advice they've taken from the Register of Lobbyists. 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:29.560 There's a bit of a weird. 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:32.720 Element here where the Register of Lobbyists is run and 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:36.560 maintained by the Attorney General's Department. The reason that Anie 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:39.960 Turnbull gives for the club being registered as a lobby 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.440 organization in the first place is because he says he 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.400 got advice from a very senior member of the Attorney 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.360 General's Department suggesting that he should register the club as 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:52.720 a lobby group. And so there's at some point somewhere 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:56.480 some conflicting advice being given to if any Turmberle is 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.800 of course telling truth that there's somewhere there's some conflicting 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:06.040 given to the Parliamentary Sports Club from the Attorney General's Department. 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.920 And I'd be really really interested to see that advice 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:09.760 laid out in full. 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:12.640 So Darnie, through your reporting, you've gone ahead and you've 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.000 blown up a sports club. I hope you proud of yourself. 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:18.160 What do you think is likely to happen now? In 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:19.040 terms of reform. 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:21.520 It's a real shame that it's that it seemed to 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:25.840 have this effect because also I didn't I didn't realize 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:28.400 until this afternoon that the Parliamentary Sports Club is also 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:32.000 responsible for the infamous Polly's Verse Press cricket match which 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:33.559 Andrew Purben has been trying to get me in for 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:36.160 a number of years. I still play great cricket. Now 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:40.800 that might be off the cards, I'm afraid. But in 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:44.720 terms of reform, I'm really I really don't know. I'm 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:49.359 really curious to see whether sort of the more informal 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:51.480 types of sports that have played at Parliament House. There's 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.840 a long running squash competition, for example, at Parliament House 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:58.360 that sort of is very not corporate. I wonder whether 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.640 those sorts of things will take more precedence or whether 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:05.360 things will just carry on as usual and David Pocock 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:08.000 will just be forced to throw rocks at windows in 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:09.720 Parlament House on the lawns and that's going to be 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:11.920 his new sporting pursuit. 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.400 And of course there's a much bigger and far more 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:17.720 seriously ship behind all of this, Darney, and that's the 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:20.959 government's willingness to address the bigger issue of their inaction 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:24.400 on evidence based gambling reform. What sense do you have 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:26.040 of where that's at at the moment. 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:30.040 I think there's been lots of moving parts that sort 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.480 of effect whether or not we see movement on gambling 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:35.319 advertising reform. And it is things like sports rights, it's 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:38.920 things like new television deals being broken. It's things like 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.800 the gambling lobby itself having a presence in Parliament House 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.880 as it does. But the government hasn't responded to the 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:49.160 Murphy report, which was ordered back in September twenty twenty two. 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:51.080 There's not really a sense that the government's going to 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.920 do anything in the immediate term. We are coming up 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:55.960 to the Spring racing Carnival, which is one of the 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:59.280 big It's betting Christmas for the betting companies and for 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:03.080 the lobby. I will believe it when I see it 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:08.000 at this point. This government previously started to commit to 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:11.120 partial bans on gambling advertising sort of in the lead 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.520 up to the twenty twenty five election, then went back 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:16.240 on that and said that there wasn't going to be 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:18.480 anything to laughter the election. We're now a solid six 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:22.520 months post election, so I don't anticipate there to be 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:26.679 any significant change. Noting, of course, the government line that 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:31.360 they've done more on gambling arm than any government since federation, 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:34.120 which is their sort of routine talking point. 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.640 That is in a sense true. 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.240 They've made a number of changes around things like self 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.600 exclusion registers and whatnot, a number of self regulatory changes 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.760 for gambling companies. A lot of those aren't being adhered 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.520 to anyway, so I'll believe it when I say it. 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:52.560 Dannie, thank you so much for your time. 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:54.000 Thank you very much for having me, Daniel. 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:58.560 As always, you can read Dannisaya It's reporting at krikey 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:14.480 dot com dot are you. There are many many exclusives there. 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.520 Also in the news, a protest group behind regular pro 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:20.680 Palestinian rallies has won a case in the Supreme Court 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:24.400 against the new South Wales government. The Palestine Action Group 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:28.520 challenged laws introduced earlier this year with stop protesters from 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:32.599 gathering around places of worship. Lawyers from the group organizer 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:36.400 Josh Lees, successfully argue that the laws gave police too 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:40.000 much power, including the move protesters on even when there 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.400 was no reason to believe worship has felt obstructed, harassed 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:47.440 or scared. And an Australian soldier has died in a 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:51.040 training accident in Townsville. The soldier died after a vehicle 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.600 rollover on Wednesday evening. In a statement, the Department of 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:58.040 Defense confirmed the death. Two other soldiers were injured in 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:01.000 the accident but have since been dis charge from hospital. 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.679 I'm Daniel James. This is seven am. Thanks for listening.