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Speaker 1: Hi, Mike Boris, and this is straight Talk. Hey guys,

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Speaker 1: just come back from holidays. One of my first podcasts

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Speaker 1: for twenty twenty five. I've done a couple, but two

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Speaker 1: really important ones. This year is an election year, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five, and what's really important is that we get

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Speaker 1: to hear all of us. Most importantly, you get to

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Speaker 1: hear the reason why. The two contenders for the role

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Speaker 1: of Prime minister, both at labor and liberal level, coalition level,

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Speaker 1: get to tell their story, who they are, what they

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Speaker 1: believe in, what some of their policies are, respond to

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Speaker 1: the opposition, et cetera. So tomorrow morning we'll be releasing

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Speaker 1: the very first of my interviews, which would be released

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Speaker 1: with one of the contenders who's going to be the

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Speaker 1: Prime minister and the other individual. He has been interviewed

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Speaker 1: as well, and that will be released sometime next week.

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Speaker 1: What's important for me to say to you is most

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Speaker 1: of you know my politics. I guess most people know

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Speaker 1: where my politics stand given my history. But straight talk

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Speaker 1: is not about politics. Straight talk is about me allowing

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Speaker 1: the person who is our guest, your guest, to tell

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Speaker 1: their story and they're going to put it in whatever

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Speaker 1: context that they think is appropriate relative to where they

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Speaker 1: want to be. I am not taking sides. I'm not

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Speaker 1: here judging anybody. I'll have my opinions and my views,

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Speaker 1: but my job is not to pull someone's pants down.

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Speaker 1: My job is to allow them to tell their story

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Speaker 1: so you can hear about it. You make the judgment.

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Speaker 1: You're the persons going to vote. I don't want anything

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Speaker 1: that I might do or say influencer or outcomes. So

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Speaker 1: enjoy it. Because they're both completely different people. They both

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Speaker 1: come from completely different sides of the fence. They have

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Speaker 1: completely different policies and dieme metrically opposed in style. So

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Speaker 1: it's going to be really interesting to see where this

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Speaker 1: all lands. And I want them to come back, and

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Speaker 1: anyone else in the voting environment, anyone who's a potential minister,

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Speaker 1: I want them to come back to Straight Talk. So

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Speaker 1: Straight Talk is going to deliver two podcasts in the

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Speaker 1: next seven days with the two contenders from the two

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Speaker 1: major parties. Peter Dutton, Well, Straight.

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Speaker 2: Talk make great to be with you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you mate, your period working in the police, working

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Speaker 1: as minutes for Home Affairs. You know Graham as a

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Speaker 1: kid who saw tough times, is a fair to say then,

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Speaker 1: what are all those things have done with influence youI

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Speaker 1: put you in a position you're prepared to make the

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Speaker 1: tough decisions.

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Speaker 2: Yes. For me, the leadership position and the position of

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister is about making the decisions that are not

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Speaker 2: always popular, but that you know in our country's best interest.

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Speaker 1: Is that a Peter Dutton thing though you'll call it

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Speaker 1: out in order to make sure that we have the

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Speaker 1: right rhythm in Australia economically. Yes.

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Speaker 2: And I said when I came into the lead ship

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Speaker 2: of this party that I thought the Liberal Party and

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Speaker 2: big business were estranged and but really our party is

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Speaker 2: for small business.

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Speaker 1: It was the recession we had to have for According

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Speaker 1: to Paul Keating, I overspending can cause inflation. Do you

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Speaker 1: think this is all happening again? Mister potato head? How

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Speaker 1: do you deal with that sort of stuff? What do

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Speaker 1: you do about it? Can you give us your take

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Speaker 1: on a straight a day? Apologize if we'll getting into

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Speaker 1: the two heavy stuff, but Peter Dutton went straight talk.

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Speaker 2: Great to be with you, Thank you mate.

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Speaker 1: First Days my first podcast for twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: Looking tanned and relaxed and pretty exct from holidays, I'm

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Speaker 2: pretty excited, mate.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, you know we're recording this on

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Speaker 1: Crazy but the inauguration day only was only five six

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Speaker 1: hours ago that President Trump was formally inaugurated into his

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Speaker 1: position as President of the United States of America. Do

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Speaker 1: you see any omens out of that? Do you feel

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Speaker 1: something from that?

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Speaker 2: I think there is something in it that's not just

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Speaker 2: in the United States. When you look at what's happening

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Speaker 2: in Canada, look what's happening in other parts of the world.

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Speaker 2: I think there is life's of cycle, and there is

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Speaker 2: certainly a recalibration, particularly in times where people are feeling

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Speaker 2: financially stressed and under pressure and don't see the blue

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Speaker 2: sky that was there a few years ago. So I

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Speaker 2: think it does do that. It's pretty pretty amazing when

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Speaker 2: you think of the fact that Donald Trump has moved

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Speaker 2: markets literally even before today. He obviously had a significant

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Speaker 2: hand in the negotiations between Israel and Hamas on the

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Speaker 2: release of hostages as well. It's a pretty formidable force

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Speaker 2: when you think about that, and he's only just been

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Speaker 2: sworn in, and he's obviously outlined some of his priorities,

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Speaker 2: and the reality will strike the you know, the incumbent

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Speaker 2: reality of being president now, so see how much he

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Speaker 2: can actually he can actually score. But there is momentum

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Speaker 2: and there's you know, and there is a lot in

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Speaker 2: that movement at the moment, I think on.

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Speaker 1: My park a bit of that because I want to

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Speaker 1: come back to some of it, if you don't mind, Peter,

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Speaker 1: and I don't actually, to be honest, I don't know

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Speaker 1: where to I was thinking about it, like at length

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Speaker 1: this morning. Where to talk to Peter dun't about what

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Speaker 1: to talk to Peter about? And what to talk to

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Speaker 1: Peter dun't about? Where I go? You know, it could

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Speaker 1: go from the memes about you, you know, mister Potato

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Speaker 1: and blah blah blah. I can talk about that, and

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Speaker 1: we will say something about that in the moment, But

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Speaker 1: right down to is Peter Dutton a hard ass because

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Speaker 1: of some of these portfolios and he might have had

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Speaker 1: the fact that he was once upon a time a

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Speaker 1: policeman in Queensland, right down to why the hell would

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Speaker 1: you want to become prime minister of the county country, Like,

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Speaker 1: it's not like being a minister. It's not like being

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Speaker 1: a local representative. You know, it's you're right out there

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Speaker 1: and it's completely exposed, and you don't, to be honest,

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Speaker 1: you you don't get paid that much relative to what

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Speaker 1: you've got to do their time, effort, risk associated with

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Speaker 1: everything else in your life. And I've thought about all

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Speaker 1: those things, and then I thought to himself, actually I

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Speaker 1: shall want to know a bit about more about the dude, Peter.

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Speaker 1: It aren't the guy because we don't know much about you.

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Speaker 2: No, that's true, that's true. I mean I've been around

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Speaker 2: a fair while twenty three years in parliament. But if

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Speaker 2: people are interested or exposed to politics, I suppose they

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Speaker 2: have a greater interest than they've read or found out

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Speaker 2: some more detail about you. But you're right. For most

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Speaker 2: people know they're busy grunning their kids to school, they've

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Speaker 2: got sport and all sorts of commitments, and you know

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Speaker 2: they're haby to flick the channel when they see one

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Speaker 2: of us on TV because it's just not their thing.

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Speaker 2: But as an election gets closer, people naturally have a

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Speaker 2: natural inclination or curiosity as to who it is they

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Speaker 2: might vote for, and for some of them, they don't

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Speaker 2: make a decision until they pick up the pencil in

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Speaker 2: the booth on election day, which is pretty amazing as well.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's I think it's right that those

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Speaker 2: questions are asked. And it's show business for ugly people,

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Speaker 2: as they say. And part of that is, you know,

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Speaker 2: getting in the public eye and telling people your story

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Speaker 2: and your vision and where you've come from, your influences

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Speaker 2: and and so yeah, that's that's that's a natural thing.

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Speaker 1: Well that's how the shown on me runs. But it

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Speaker 1: really is a bit of a I've been out the

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Speaker 1: door to Peter Dutton's life, so maybe at the risk

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Speaker 1: of boring you, but exciting me. You're a Queenslander. Where

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Speaker 1: we're born. I was born in Brisbane, Brisbane boy and in.

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Speaker 2: Nineteen seventy a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: It's not that long ago. I wish brothers and sisters.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm the eldest of five, so I've got two

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Speaker 2: brother and three sisters.

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Speaker 1: And what did your dad and mum do?

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Speaker 2: Dad was a bricklayer, so started out laboring. I think

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Speaker 2: he hung blinds. Originally left school at a young age

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Speaker 2: and he came from a family of five himself. So

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Speaker 2: his father was a linesman for PMG, the predecessor to

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Speaker 2: Telstras General. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So he was a blue

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Speaker 2: collar worker and so he didn't grow up with a

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Speaker 2: lot of money either, but good work ethic. And in

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Speaker 2: those days too, I think there was a sacrifice that

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Speaker 2: was made. Some of the kids they could afford to

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Speaker 2: send to school and others not. So he was a bricklayer,

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Speaker 2: and we didn't have a lot of money growing up.

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Speaker 2: But he worked really hard his whole life and he

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Speaker 2: did well by you know, by the end of his

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Speaker 2: working life. And I mean his back was bugget and

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Speaker 2: as a builder, and he I think demonstrated to us

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Speaker 2: a great work ethic. And Mum did the same. She

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Speaker 2: started out as a secretary and then took kids in

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Speaker 2: at home in a day care scenario, so lots of

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Speaker 2: kids at our place before and after school, and.

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Speaker 1: I mean like mining them like correct.

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Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, And that was just to sort of supplement,

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Speaker 2: you know, the family income. And then yeah, so that

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Speaker 2: was sort of the very early, the early stages. And

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Speaker 2: through that period there's ten years between myself and my

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Speaker 2: youngest siblings, so you know, so I also I guess,

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Speaker 2: as happens in bigger families, you play a role in

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Speaker 2: raising the younger ones as well, changing mappies and carrying

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Speaker 2: babies around and all the rest of it. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so I think that's there's some of the memories that

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Speaker 2: I would have.

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Speaker 1: And in that sort of scenario, do you ever reflect

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Speaker 1: back on what you can take out of those experiences

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Speaker 1: and put into your life, not as a politician, but

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Speaker 1: as Peter Dutton, the dad, the husband, the friend, the

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Speaker 1: brother's sister. What did you get out of that period?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm a big believer in the influencers that then

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Speaker 2: shape your life and that sort of nature nurture argument,

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Speaker 2: But there I think we certainly I developed an entrepreneurial

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Speaker 2: spirit fairly early on, and it was it was probably

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Speaker 2: money driven at that younger age, because you know, I

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Speaker 2: knew that mom and dad worked hard for every dollar

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Speaker 2: and there was never enough with a family that size.

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Speaker 2: So you know, I used to mow lawns and throw

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Speaker 2: papers and worked at the local butchers shop after school

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Speaker 2: from grade seven until I started UNI, And so there

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Speaker 2: was always a conversation at home, and I was always

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Speaker 2: interested in the small business element of it. So at

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Speaker 2: the end of the month, when the accounts were done,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'd sit around the kitchen table and write

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Speaker 2: out in my sort of teenage, young teenage handwriting the

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Speaker 2: checks and Mum or Dad would sign it, and I'd

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Speaker 2: write the envelope out and put the stamp on and

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Speaker 2: put paid and the check number and whatever on the

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Speaker 2: and then file the invoices. And so I'd always sort

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Speaker 2: of been fascinated with that small business element and also

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Speaker 2: exposed to it in the butcher's shop as well, and

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Speaker 2: watching how that business ebbed and flowed in good times

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Speaker 2: and bad.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting. I actually I wore in a butcher shop,

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Speaker 1: but I just have to because I don't know about

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Speaker 1: the period you're talking about. But they used to wrap

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Speaker 1: all the meat up in. First there was a white paper,

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Speaker 1: then there was a put newspaper around it. And if

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Speaker 1: you collected the local newspapers in those days those newspapers,

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Speaker 1: you collected the local newspaper, you got paid per pound

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Speaker 1: in those days. What were you doing in the butchers shop?

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Speaker 1: Leg Were you cleaning up the mess after him at

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Speaker 1: the end of a Saturday after they'd or left or

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Speaker 1: what was it?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I mean it started out just as a butcher's boy,

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Speaker 2: and so cleaning the trays, cleaning out smokehouse, just washing up,

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Speaker 2: cleaning out the cold rooms, and you know, mopping the floor,

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Speaker 2: cleaning the windows, all of you, all of those sort

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Speaker 2: of medial task but you know, I used to happily

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Speaker 2: jump on the bike, can ride up and enjoy getting

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Speaker 2: paid at the end of the weekend. You know. I

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Speaker 2: mean in those days, some weeks you get paid in

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Speaker 2: meat because they just didn't, you know, they couldn't afford

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Speaker 2: to pay the wage bill. And then I'd go home

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Speaker 2: and try and flog the meat to mum and dad

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Speaker 2: and recoup some of the cash. But like, I look

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Speaker 2: back really fondly on that, and that then morphed into

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Speaker 2: you know, serving on the front counter. And I was

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Speaker 2: a pretty shy kid, I think by any you know,

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Speaker 2: by any measure, and that helped me and opened me

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Speaker 2: up to a retail world where you were having to

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Speaker 2: engage with customers and there's a lot of banter and

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Speaker 2: you know a lot of backchat and sort of you know,

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Speaker 2: smart ass comments by Butcher's and they're a pretty rough

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Speaker 2: crew back in those days as well. So so you know,

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Speaker 2: you've got fair character assessments most days if you weren't

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Speaker 2: you know, pulling your weight, and.

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Speaker 1: You say it with a fit bit of affection in

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Speaker 1: your face, out in your eyes. It seems to me like,

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Speaker 1: especially when you say you're a shy kid, do you

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Speaker 1: feel as though you recognized that you were show at

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Speaker 1: the time and you felt as though you needed to

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Speaker 1: pull yourself out of that environment therefore be part of

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Speaker 1: the retail engagement or do you think you know the

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Speaker 1: butcher's there. Certainly this kid needs to be pushed up

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Speaker 1: front a little bit less. Just make him, put him

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Speaker 1: through a bit of pain here and let him be

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Speaker 1: interacted with. Because to be local people, people from your

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Speaker 1: area correct exactly right in those days anyway, you won't

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Speaker 1: go into the big shopping center. It was like a

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Speaker 1: local thing. Was it them recognizing chinas in you or

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Speaker 1: was it you recognizing shiness in yourself?

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Speaker 2: I think probably it was. It was more sort of

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Speaker 2: a natural progression that and I wanted to be involved

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Speaker 2: in that because you know, much easier work serving on

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Speaker 2: the counter than you know, cleaning the trays up out

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Speaker 2: of the back. So it's a bit of a bit

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Speaker 2: of a combination. And I think as you get older

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Speaker 2: as well, and you're probably the reality is you're probably

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Speaker 2: a cheaper wage than somebody else on the front counter

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Speaker 2: as well. And also it's you become a jack of

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Speaker 2: all trades in a small business like that where there's

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Speaker 2: only you know, four or five people working, so you know,

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Speaker 2: you learn to cut up meat and you learn to

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Speaker 2: package up as you said, I mean we were using

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Speaker 2: plastic bags by then, but then wrapped in in paper,

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Speaker 2: not newspaper, but white butcher's paper after that, and then

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Speaker 2: it was you know, adding up the half a dozen

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Speaker 2: items or whatever it was by hand on the on the.

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Speaker 1: Back of the pencil.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, correct, correct, And so but I think all of

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Speaker 2: that it was probably a huge influence on me and

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Speaker 2: what happened in you know, in my life beyond that,

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Speaker 2: and my investment in business and and my interest I

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Speaker 2: think was generated well and truly back then.

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Speaker 1: Was it driven though through something like I recognize that

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Speaker 1: I wanted into money because you know, my folks, we

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Speaker 1: don't have enough dough or we don't have as much

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Speaker 1: as someone down the road. We just say, it's a

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Speaker 1: driven thing. And I not necessarily want to sort of

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Speaker 1: drill down too much on the butcher's job or the

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Speaker 1: butcher's you know, boy, your job. But more about did

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Speaker 1: Peter Dutton have ambitions to have more or was it

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Speaker 1: just like I want to do this? What? What?

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Speaker 2: What?

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Speaker 1: What was behind that as a kid.

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Speaker 2: I think it was driven by wanting to do more

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Speaker 2: and to have more and to enjoy success. I remember

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Speaker 2: a lady used to come into the shop, Missus Holloway,

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Speaker 2: I think her name was, and her husband I think

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Speaker 2: was a bookie, and she used to order order I

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Speaker 2: feel it, and I mean, you know, we'd never had

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Speaker 2: I feel it. I mean it was an expensive cut

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Speaker 2: of meat, and you know, and I mean it's it's

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Speaker 2: sort of a quirky thing, even to Mension, but it

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Speaker 2: comes to mind. And and they obviously came from a

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Speaker 2: lot of money. Used to turn up in a big

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Speaker 2: LTD I think at the time absolutely probably worth a

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Speaker 2: couple hundred thousand dollars now. But yeah, it was it

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Speaker 2: was looking at the haves and have nots and and

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Speaker 2: figuring that you wanted to work hard and the achieve

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Speaker 2: as much as you could.

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Speaker 1: See because you know, what you're painting here is sort

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Speaker 1: of similar to my background is a working class kid, Yes,

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Speaker 1: with working class parents, which basically means they worked for

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Speaker 1: a living, they weren't getting hand outs from anybody. And

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Speaker 1: then of course you finish off school, you went to university, yes,

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Speaker 1: and did you but I know you became a policeman.

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Speaker 1: Can you just give me the timelines around that territory.

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Speaker 2: So I'd always wanted to be a policeman, really, yeah,

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Speaker 2: from a young age for whatever reason, you know, I

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Speaker 2: just I like the excitement of it. I took mum's advice, though,

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Speaker 2: which you should do by default, but she wanted me

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Speaker 2: to go to union, and you know, and no one

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Speaker 2: in our family had been to university before. So I

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Speaker 2: got into a Bachelor of Business, which I started off

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Speaker 2: as accountancy, which I enjoyed and then detested, and so

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Speaker 2: I deferred that to join the police force, which is

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Speaker 2: what I really wanted to do. And then I finished

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Speaker 2: my degree part time and I switched over to public

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Speaker 2: administration and did some law electives. And I thought that

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Speaker 2: was more practical in terms of advancing in the police

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Speaker 2: or knowing that if I wanted to go into politics

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Speaker 2: at some stage, that might be of some practical benefit

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Speaker 2: to me, more so than an accountancy. But you know,

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Speaker 2: the accountancy skills also been important in my life, particularly

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Speaker 2: when we're in business as well.

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Speaker 1: Would you would you have seen your family go through

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Speaker 1: recession periods?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: During that Dad been a brickie and or in the

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Speaker 1: building trade that would be would have been particularly in

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Speaker 1: those days periods where tools down, no work did you

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Speaker 1: go through those it.

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Speaker 2: Was it was boombast, right, So you know you could

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Speaker 2: the building sectors I think different today and my son's

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Speaker 2: are doing a carpentry apprenticeship at the moment, and I

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Speaker 2: mean that, you know, the firm he works for seems

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Speaker 2: to have a lot of work on constantly and there's

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Speaker 2: demand and you know, we know all of that with

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Speaker 2: the housing situation at the moment. But in those days

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Speaker 2: I vividly remembered, you know, a day could go on

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Speaker 2: price ten jobs and get none, or he could price

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Speaker 2: ten and get ten. And it was a cutthroat industry

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Speaker 2: as well. I'm sure that's still the case today, but

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Speaker 2: a lot of low margin people, particularly when the economy

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Speaker 2: was contracting, people would cut their prices dramatically, which you

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Speaker 2: would expect, I suppose in sort of a free market

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Speaker 2: and people chasing work. And so that was definitely a

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Speaker 2: discussion around the kitchen table of you know, in our family.

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Speaker 2: So politics and keeping and high interest rates and all

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Speaker 2: of that was part of a discussion over a longer

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Speaker 2: period and that and it was also I mean in

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Speaker 2: terms of sort of my political interest. I finished school

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Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty seven, which was the end of the

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Speaker 2: giocipedis in Ere, so all of the scandal and his

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Speaker 2: dominance as premiere over that period it was splashed across

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Speaker 2: the front pages of the newspaper each day and on

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Speaker 2: the news of a nighttime, so you were exposed to it,

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Speaker 2: and I think they were sort of the early political

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Speaker 2: influences for me as well.

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Speaker 1: And also during that period you would have been aiding.

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Speaker 1: But it was the Hawk period and Hawk Keating period

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Speaker 1: and then became the Keating period. But it was a

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Speaker 1: period of extraordinarily high interest rates, big inflation, yes, big

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Speaker 1: big government spending from mid eighties to late eighties and

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Speaker 1: to the early nineties. It was the recession we had

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Speaker 1: to have, according to Paul Eating, but it boss and

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Speaker 1: there was a bit of a housing problem in that

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Speaker 1: house prices or people with homes that were paying somewhere

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Speaker 1: between twenty percent interest and a lot of people had

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Speaker 1: to sell the houses. Meebe one of them, and with families.

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Speaker 1: And I'll never forget that period in my life. And

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Speaker 1: whilst I think poor Keitting do a lot of great things,

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Speaker 1: particularly superannuation, all that sort of stuff. I also would

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Speaker 1: take the view. I'd also take the view that that government,

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Speaker 1: that administration overspent, overspent, and that's the conversations being held

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Speaker 1: in the United States right now. And that's a Trump conversation.

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Speaker 1: Pretty radical conversation there, especially with the way Musk is

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Speaker 1: coming into the whole deal and they're going to cut

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Speaker 1: government spending. But it is a conversation now. In Australia.

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Speaker 1: Overspending can cause inflation, irrespective of how much doctor Jim

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Speaker 1: dances around it. And I don't want to get too

385
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Speaker 1: heavy on the politics because there's an interview about you,

386
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Speaker 1: But what do you think about that? When you think

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Speaker 1: back to the late eighties nineties, do you think it's

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Speaker 1: this is all happening again.

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Speaker 2: I do. There's sort of an eerie, you know, deja

390
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Speaker 2: vu for me when you think about that period, you know,

391
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Speaker 2: the late eighties, early nineties and the period now. The

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Speaker 2: Reserve Bank governor I think has done a great job.

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Speaker 2: She's maintainer, independent, she's stoic, and she has been guided

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Speaker 2: not by the politics or the pressure that she feels

395
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Speaker 2: from the Treasurer, but by her training. And she's been

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Speaker 2: brought up in a model where they have an independence,

397
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Speaker 2: and you know, we might not always agree with the

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Speaker 2: Reserve Bank governor and the comments sometimes seem a bit

399
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Speaker 2: insincere or whatever over the years, but I think Michelle

400
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Speaker 2: Bullock has really switched the light on for a lot

401
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Speaker 2: of Australians when she's making a statement of the obvious

402
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Speaker 2: that if the government continues to spend like they have,

403
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Speaker 2: they've spent an extra three hundred and forty seven billion

404
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 2: dollars something of that nature. That is a lot of

405
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 2: money to pump into the economy, which does fuel inflation

406
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Speaker 2: and keeps interest rates high. I also think the energy

407
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Speaker 2: debate as well. I think we sort of sometimes brush

408
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Speaker 2: over this and people see the increases in their electricity

409
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Speaker 2: bills and their gas bills, but the fact is that

410
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 2: that feeds into inflation as well to grocery and food prices,

411
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Speaker 2: because cold storage is more expensive because its high energy use, ceter.

412
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Speaker 2: Fertilizers and all of that ultimately passed on in grocery prices.

413
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Speaker 2: So I do think it's a debate. Again. The thing

414
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Speaker 2: that's different in my mind today that stands out most

415
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 2: is that you've had asset price inflation, so people's homes

416
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Speaker 2: have gone up dramatically in value. If they owned a

417
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Speaker 2: home before COVID and they've got equity there now, whereas

418
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Speaker 2: in the eighties and nineties they didn't have that equity.

419
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Speaker 2: I don't think it. I don't think there was a

420
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Speaker 2: I don't think there were the buyers the demand for

421
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 2: the product then that there is now that if your

422
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 2: house price has gone up and you've got a million

423
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,919
Speaker 2: dollars of equity, you're in default interest. The bank probably

424
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Speaker 2: would have sold you up pretty quickly in the eighties

425
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Speaker 2: and probably at a fire sale price, and you probably

426
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Speaker 2: ended up with a debt walking away from it, or

427
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 2: bugger or net position, whereas now I think the bank's

428
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 2: probably because of the publicity, more loath to sell people up.

429
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Speaker 2: But also they're earning default interest knowing that there's a

430
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Speaker 2: million dollars of equity and there's probably ten buyers lined

431
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Speaker 2: up at an auction to buy the place, so there's

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Speaker 2: no great rush to sell it. And that has a

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Speaker 2: different psychological effect, because if you're walking away with nothing

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Speaker 2: or with debt from a house sale, then that's a

435
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 2: dark cloud. If you're walking away with a million dollars,

436
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 2: you might not be able to buy the house that

437
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 2: you want, or maybe end up compromising and buying a

438
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 2: cheaper house, or I you've got one hundred thousand dollars equity.

439
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 2: Whatever the numbers are, it's a different psychological equation today

440
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 2: than it was then. Now, maybe house prices are contracting,

441
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 2: and maybe people have paid over odds over the last

442
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,199
Speaker 2: couple of years and they're going to find themselves in

443
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 2: a negative equity position. But there's still sort of a

444
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 2: supply drought, so still demand for housing, which will probably

445
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 2: balance the equation out. I would have thought so. But yes,

446
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 2: I mean that was the dynamic back then.

447
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: That's for a budding prime minister. That's very interesting to

448
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: see such a full analysis. I mean, that's my game,

449
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 1: and I'm sitting here talking to a PM has got

450
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: to be across a whole lot of things if he

451
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 1: becomes PM, not just economics with his train economy. That's

452
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 1: a pretty articulated analysis of what's going on right now.

453
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: I probably could probably couldn't have got a better analysis

454
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: from Steve Goculis, who, by the way, he's a labor guy.

455
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: He's my economist guy that hangs out with me. He

456
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 1: was Julia Gillard's Chief economist co Culis whould do exactly

457
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: the same analysis as that. In fact, I've had the

458
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: conversation with him about exactly that. How the hell do

459
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 1: you become? How'd you become? So I don't know how

460
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: did you know this stuff? I mean our Prime minister

461
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: was asked about the cash rate prior to the previous selection.

462
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 1: You didn't even know it.

463
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 2: Well, I just think it's the influences that you've had

464
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 2: in your life and your experiences and what you bring

465
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 2: to the table. And I've always had an interest in property.

466
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 2: And you know, I've renovated a few places and sold them.

467
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: I've split a couple of thirty two perch blocks, which

468
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 2: you know was the thing years ago, went to perch.

469
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: How big is that?

470
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 2: It's eight hundred and nine square meters So in those days,

471
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 2: if you had a twenty meter frontage, you could split

472
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 2: it into two blocks of subdivided yea. And you know,

473
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 2: and so look, I've just I've had that interest in property.

474
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 2: I was probably you know, geeky kid reading the fin

475
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 2: Review at a pretty early age. And my twenty year

476
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:02,479
Speaker 2: old who is intro in sort of current affairs and

477
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 2: you know, the sort of the world I suppose, but

478
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 2: I never see him reading a newspaper, never watches the news,

479
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 2: and obviously gets a lot of social media feed, which

480
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 2: is fine. But I bought him an AFR subscription. I said,

481
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 2: but you've got to start reading the AFR and get

482
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 2: to get a sense. And in those days probably still

483
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 2: sell it. But I used to buy like the Money

484
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,719
Speaker 2: magazine or the Home. Maybe you probably contributed to it

485
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 2: back in the day and wrote articles. I'm not sure,

486
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 2: but so yeah, I think I've had that interest in

487
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 2: particularly housing, and I think I think also that the

488
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 2: home is such an important anchor for a stable relationship,

489
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 2: for raising of children, an asset that increases in value

490
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: that you can bequeath to your children, or that can

491
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 2: set you up in retirement. And it's also the underpinning

492
00:26:58,080 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 2: of small business because most of the lending is again

493
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 2: secured against the home. So for me, that home ownership

494
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 2: is really essential to the Australian culture and psyche, and

495
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 2: I think it really upsets me a lot of younger

496
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 2: people now have lost the belief that they will ever

497
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 2: own a home and there'll be lifetime renders, and I

498
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 2: just think that's a tragedy.

499
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 1: It's if I because I'm just because most people just

500
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: see you as Peter Dutton, foreign policemen and a minister

501
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: for various portfolios, and all of a sudden, petern't just

502
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: give me. Give me an analysis and economic analysis which

503
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: I probably couldn't put any better myself, and that's what

504
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: I spent my whole life doing. So I guess it's

505
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: apart from you saying you're interested in it and it's

506
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: something you do an analysis on your it's not just

507
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 1: because you want to be the Prime Minister. Is probably

508
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: am I getting it in my correct I mean you

509
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: generinely are interested in this stuff?

510
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, very much, very much.

511
00:27:58,359 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: And if I could take it beyond the economics of it,

512
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: are you genuinely interested in this stuff because what it

513
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 1: represents the fabric of being Australian.

514
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 2: Yes, And I'll again back to the early point we

515
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 2: discussed it. I mean the influencers I think shape who

516
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 2: you are and your attitudes obviously good and bad. And

517
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: for me it's been a tool of wealth creation and

518
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 2: opportunity for Kiraly and I and for our children and

519
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 2: and you know, I think my kids who are twenty two, nineteen,

520
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 2: twenty two, twenty and nineteen have that aspiration. They're saving

521
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 2: like crazy to try and buy a house because I

522
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: think we've instilled that in them that it's you know,

523
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 2: it's it's it's an aspiration that you should strive for

524
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 2: and there's good that comes from it. And if you

525
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 2: sacrifice and you save and you go without, then you know,

526
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: there's sort of a longer term opportunity and upside. So

527
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 2: and you know, for me, for a kid who came

528
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 2: from you know, a working class suburb, it it were,

529
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 2: property was an opportunity to you know, to try and

530
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 2: and move to you know, the next stage or two,

531
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 2: to have an opportunity to move beyond that. And and

532
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: I really think it's sad that, as I say that,

533
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 2: that that opportunity might be not available to a generation

534
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 2: of young Australians and and and renting, and for some

535
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,959
Speaker 2: people there's no choice, and I respect that, and but

536
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 2: I just think if we can, if we can provide

537
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 2: that financial stability and security, then it's better for for

538
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 2: relationship stability and better for family and better for therefore

539
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 2: better for society and the country as well. So I

540
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 2: think there are a few elements to the whole housing picture,

541
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 2: and how significant a part of our culture, that.

542
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: Is, and what you're paying to me though, was a

543
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: picture of someone who would not be considered to be

544
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: a typical liberal, just looking after the rich, you know,

545
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: and privileged. Would it be fair to say that liberal values,

546
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: liberal party values have moved down the scale a little

547
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: bit across more to the middle or something like that.

548
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: And could you, as a very conversation and the very

549
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: type of people that Trump's getting to go over him now,

550
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: do you think there's been a change in what Liberal

551
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: party represents as opposed to what they've always been typically

552
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: drawn as or put out there as.

553
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 2: I think it's a really interesting point. I think both

554
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 2: parties have changed a bit when you look at their

555
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 2: modern four.

556
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: Labor and Liberal Yeah, yeah, I.

557
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 2: Mean Robert Menzies when he set the Liberal Party up,

558
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 2: had as one of the cornerstone beliefs of the party

559
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: home ownership.

560
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: And the forgotten people, absolutely, which.

561
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 2: Was essentially that the tradees and the blue collar workers

562
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: and your dad correct one hundred percent, and it's aspiration,

563
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 2: a word that we don't speak of enough in this

564
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 2: country anymore, and reward for effort and wanting more for

565
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 2: your children and your grandchildren than your grandparents could have

566
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: ever conceived, and so in my mind it's a reconnection

567
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 2: with some of those values. I think the Liberal Party,

568
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 2: if we look back over the last twenty or thirty years,

569
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 2: drifted too close to big business. I said when I

570
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 2: came into the leadership of this party that I thought

571
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 2: the Liberal Party and big business were estranged, and that

572
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 2: really our party is for small business and for the

573
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: young people in tech startups and women working at home

574
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 2: with a young baby with an online business and trying

575
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,959
Speaker 2: to create an opportunity for a cafe owner to get

576
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 2: open a second and third store without regulation and taxation

577
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: killing their dream and their expansion plans. And that, for me,

578
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 2: is what the Liberal Party is about. The Labor Party

579
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 2: and its modern form, has moved closer to inner city

580
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 2: Green voters, and that's where the Prime Minister, if you

581
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 2: look at his seat you know, I mean Marrickville is

582
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: a Greens area effectively, and so his battle for the

583
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 2: last twenty or thirty years has been with the Greens

584
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 2: and trying to stop them from taking his seat. And

585
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 2: I think the Labor parties drifted more away from the

586
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 2: worker frankly to even the beg end of town, but

587
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: certainly the more gentrified part of society, and so there

588
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 2: has been a maturing of the parties, you know, for

589
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: good and for bad. Now the prime ministers say, oh,

590
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 2: that's nonsense. There's still the Party of the worker, but

591
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 2: there are very few workers who are in parliament now.

592
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: They're professional union secretaries and people who have been involved

593
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: in the upper echelons of the union movement. And it's

594
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 2: very hard for the you know, for the train driver

595
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 2: or for the you know, the school teacher to find

596
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:21,239
Speaker 2: their way into into Labor Party pre selection now. And

597
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 2: I want to make sure that Liberal Party. I mean,

598
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: we don't need to be at odds with big business,

599
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,479
Speaker 2: but big business is able to take care of itself

600
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 2: if we provide the right economic settings. Smaller business doesn't

601
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 2: have a general counsel, they don't have an HR department,

602
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 2: and they don't have you know, in house advisors. They're

603
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 2: doing the books of a nighttime themselves. And for me,

604
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 2: that's the Liberal party that can connect with people in

605
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 2: our suburbs and working class people who might have seen

606
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 2: the Liberal parties just for the beig end of town

607
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 2: and that that's not my vision for our party or

608
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 2: indeed for the country.

609
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: I've often wondered why, and this goes for both parties.

610
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: But I've often wondered why the Minister for Small Business

611
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: or the portfolio of a small business usually gets tucked

612
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: under the treasurer and it's a junior ministry whereas everybody

613
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: talks about everybody talks about, you know, small business, particularly

614
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 1: in Australia being the engine room of the country. Like

615
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: you know, we employ most of the people in the country.

616
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: We pay the large amount of tax in bulk. I'm

617
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: sure the banks pay a lot of tax and the

618
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: mining companies pay a lot tax, but if you look

619
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: at the bulk attacks it comes from the small business

620
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: small business owners in the country. As I said, we

621
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: employ most of the people. I've often wondered why in

622
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: a policy sense that the Minister for Small Business is

623
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: a small portfolio you the.

624
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 2: Thought of that well another thing again, I think it's

625
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 2: a good point. But and in government there was we

626
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 2: had a focus of putting small business into the cabinet

627
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 2: and having those discussions and really elevating And again it's

628
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 2: it's probably a natural instinct for a lot of us

629
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,760
Speaker 2: in the senior leadership team or across our party. Actually,

630
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 2: if I think about the front bench and the back bench.

631
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 2: Most have come from a small business background or had

632
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 2: an exposure to have employed staff, or been involved in

633
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 2: their own in their own small business life. And that

634
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 2: I think that really comes into many of the conversations

635
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 2: that we have about tax and agree with you, it's

636
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 2: the lifeblood of the economy. Interestingly, on the weekend, we

637
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 2: made an announcement about that, you know, providing support for

638
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 2: small businesses to be able to deduct up to twenty

639
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 2: thousand dollars of expense on meals effectively in cafes and

640
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 2: clubs and pubs and restaurants, et cetera, and without without

641
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 2: FBT and without the complication that exists there now. And

642
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 2: I was surprised actually when I looked at how many

643
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 2: businesses would be eligible for it, about two and a

644
00:35:55,160 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 2: half million businesses, because we set the critter at businesses

645
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 2: with ten million or less turnover, which represents actually ninety

646
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 2: eight percent of small businesses in the country have ten

647
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: mili or less turnover. And I was really surprised by

648
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 2: that stat And you know, and the whole idea of

649
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 2: the policy is that like a real estate agent can

650
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 2: take the sale stuff at the end of the months

651
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 2: down to a local pub and buy a meal. The

652
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 2: local builder can take you know, his tradees down to

653
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 2: the pub on a Friday if they've completed a big

654
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 2: job and you know, a big contract's just been won

655
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 2: by that manufacturer. Take the sale stuff out or take

656
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 2: your customers out and try and build up the business.

657
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 2: And it also helps a sector which I think is

658
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 2: really struggling at the moment with big input costs, big

659
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 2: wage bills, a lot of compliance and probably seeing a

660
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 2: downturn in their in their training numbers. And but yeah,

661
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: I was just was and it's attacked right correct, up

662
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: to twenty thousand dollars.

663
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: The company being in being obliged to take FBT.

664
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 2: Subject to FBT and the recording and you know the

665
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 2: complication that comes with it, and we've excluded alcohol from it,

666
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: and you know, not that alcohol is not going to

667
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 2: be purchased as part of the meal out, but you

668
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 2: know the boss will pick up that, I think happily

669
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 2: pick up the tab for the drinks. And by excluding it,

670
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 2: I think we've actually leveraged the twenty thousand into a

671
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 2: biggest spend within those businesses, maybe to thirty or forty

672
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 2: thousand dollars and and that that you know, I think

673
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 2: is going to be good for employment. It's going to

674
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 2: be good for those businesses are probably finding it a

675
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 2: bit tough at the moment.

676
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 1: Because I remember during the the COVID period, and actually

677
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: just a bit prior to that, under the Morrison at

678
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: Midnight of Josh Freienberg, he introduced a couple of times,

679
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: on one occasion an increase in the investment allowance right off.

680
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: And I have so many people because you know, I

681
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: run the Mental podcast and like I get so much

682
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: interaction Peter from people were saying, if we could increase

683
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: the the write off, it doesn't have a get one

684
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty grand, which is what it was during

685
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: the COVID period for obvious reasons. But I think right

686
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 1: the moment, like twentyth that.

687
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 2: It's twenty and we've announced that we're going to it

688
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 2: will go to thirty. Yeah, So the instant's right off,

689
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 2: which I think was a huge win for small businesses,

690
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 2: and again you know in terms of depreciation schedules and

691
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 2: the rest have just made it easier in terms of

692
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 2: the investment decision, and it obviously spurred that activity. I

693
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 2: was worried at the time, because I was in the

694
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 2: discussions where we made some of those decisions. I was

695
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 2: worried that it was going to be a big bring

696
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 2: forward of capital investment and that we'd see a real

697
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 2: drought in the coming years. But it seems to have

698
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 2: washed out quite effectively, and I think it saved a

699
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 2: lot of businesses and generated economic activity that was well

700
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 2: needed at the time.

701
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: I do want to deal with a period where you're

702
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,280
Speaker 1: whilst you're a placement. Let's just deal with that now.

703
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: So when need to join the cops.

704
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 2: I joined in nineteen ninety.

705
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 1: Stay please, yes, And you mentioned you always want to

706
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: be a policeman as a kid. What was wrong? Did

707
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: you get to rank sergeinal.

708
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,720
Speaker 2: I got to the lofty rank of detective senior constable.

709
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: What does that mean?

710
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 2: It means about ten ranks short of commissioner and only

711
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,919
Speaker 2: one rank up from constable, which is the last rank.

712
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: So not much pay no.

713
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 2: But again in those days maybe it's still the case now.

714
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 2: But you used to be able to say, do an

715
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 2: eight to four shift or two to ten two pm

716
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 2: to ten pm shift, and then you could do what

717
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 2: they called a special which was you know, just like

718
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 2: a road works, and it was on overtime and as

719
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 2: a jump bloke, you know, I used to jump into

720
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 2: that and do all of that. And then I have

721
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,240
Speaker 2: you know, some part time business on the side anyway,

722
00:39:55,239 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 2: which ended up being childcare, and.

723
00:39:59,239 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 1: So you were mining.

724
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 2: I ended up I bought a block of land which

725
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 2: I wanted to develop into a childcare center, and I

726
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 2: ended up in the introm running it as a landscape yard,

727
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: just to try and generate some cash to pay the rents,

728
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 2: to pay the mortgage. And yeah, yeah, and it wasn't

729
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 2: too conducive to happy relationships at the time because you're

730
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 2: working sort of back to back shifts. But again and now,

731
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 2: ultimately the reason I left the police was to I'd

732
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 2: opened the third child Cais center by then and it

733
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 2: just became too much to do both jobs. But yeah, look,

734
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 2: I had a great career nine and a half years.

735
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 2: I loved it. I did the first about fifteen months

736
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 2: in uniform, and then I was a detective after that

737
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 2: for the balance of the period, and made some lifelong friends.

738
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 2: Saw the best and worst that society has to offer.

739
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 2: And again, it's one of those experiences that can't help

740
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: but shape you and your perspective and your priorities in life,

741
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 2: for the way you raise your children, the way that

742
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 2: you make decisions, and for me, what makes me so

743
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 2: passionate about protecting women and children as well. You know,

744
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 2: all of that was as a result of seeing domestic

745
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:22,879
Speaker 2: violence and working in the sex offenders squad and seeing

746
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 2: all the realities of life.

747
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: Does it just make you somebody who's aware of how

748
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: crappy life can be for somebody, particularly if they're in

749
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: a domestic violence situation. Does it just do that and

750
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 1: therefore make you really aware of those processes and make

751
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: you sort of fairly strident about protecting those individuals, or

752
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:51,720
Speaker 1: does it also give you a sort of an insight

753
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,399
Speaker 1: into why people become these sorts of people and sort

754
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: of against which you start to build a bit of

755
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: empathy about. I'm not saying being empathetic to it's criminals,

756
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: but have an understanding of white people because a lot

757
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: of times it's circumstances, their own circumstances, their own crappy lifestyle.

758
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: There might have been a mum and dad who a

759
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: drunks and bash the hell out of them as well.

760
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 1: Do you get that sense too, because you've been painted

761
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: as Peter Dutton, the ex copper who's hard ass. Yeah,

762
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: and this conversation here on straight Talk is about finding

763
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: out who you really are. And if that's the du

764
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: that's tell me. But if do you sort of get

765
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,399
Speaker 1: a sense of also, you know, there is some circumstances

766
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: it can't happen, it should have never happen, but there

767
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: are circumstances why these things happen.

768
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 2: I think the honest answer is it's a combination of

769
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 2: those things. So I think my starting position would be

770
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: that there's never a justification two for violence to never

771
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: regardless of your own circumstances, you know, assaulting your wife

772
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 2: or your children, or you know, sexually assaulting someone. I

773
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 2: just see that there's any excuse for that justification, not

774
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 2: at all. But when you step back into the backgrounds

775
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 2: of some of the offenders and you see that they

776
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 2: were victims themselves, and you see that they grew up

777
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 2: in an abusive environment. You look at the fact that

778
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 2: they've bounced around between different foster families, and when you

779
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 2: look at that, you think, well, I mean, what chance

780
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 2: did they have when their innocence, their childhood innistance has

781
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 2: been robbed of them? So yes, I think there's I

782
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 2: think there's an empathy that comes with it. But there's

783
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 2: also for me, when I was Home Affairs Minister, we

784
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 2: put eighty million dollars into the Austraine Center account of

785
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 2: child exploitation because when I came into that portfolio and

786
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 2: asked the question of the Australian Federal Police, you know,

787
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 2: what operations do you have underway? What focus do you

788
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 2: have on child protection? Yeah, there was an obvious focus

789
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,399
Speaker 2: and a priority, but it just wasn't backed up by

790
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 2: the statistics and the arrests that have been made and

791
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 2: the interventions. And I gave direction to the Commissioner that

792
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 2: I wanted that as a priority because I believe really

793
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 2: passionately in the fact that those formative years, so education

794
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 2: is important, a stable environment, and also the sanctity of

795
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 2: that childhood is paramount. So why should we tolerate a

796
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 2: situation where where kids are being brought up in that

797
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 2: circumstance And we're not going to solve every problem. But

798
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 2: for me, now you know there will have been hundreds,

799
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 2: if not thousands, of lives of young children that have

800
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 2: been saved, or pedophile networks that have been closed down

801
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 2: as a result of that investment and the prioritization that

802
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 2: we gave to the AFP, And you know when people

803
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 2: ask why would you be in politics, and you know

804
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,280
Speaker 2: the money and exposure and public and you know, the

805
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 2: memes and all the rest of it, it's for that because,

806
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 2: I mean, there's an incredible sense of satisfaction that you

807
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 2: get from being able to make those decisions that can

808
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 2: positively impact and sometimes you know, on sort of the

809
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 2: hard ass aspect, you know, I canceled six three hundred

810
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 2: visas or something when I was minister, more than any

811
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 2: minister since since federation. But that's also sort of a

812
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 2: again sort of a deliberate decision to prioritize the cases

813
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 2: and to look at and probably just a work ethic

814
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 2: element to it as well. I mean, I just plowed

815
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 2: through those cases and looked at them on their facts.

816
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 2: And there are some terrible circumstances, but there are where

817
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 2: you decide for somebody to stay even if they've committed

818
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 2: a minor offense. But the next one you look at,

819
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 2: you go back and there are six or eight or

820
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,399
Speaker 2: twelve victims and you think, well, why hasn't this guy

821
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 2: been booted before? Nowpe, you know, half a dozen kids

822
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 2: who have been involved in drug trafficking and arrested a

823
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,280
Speaker 2: dozen times, Like why is he here? There are millions

824
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 2: of people, good people who want to come to Australia

825
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 2: and let's give them the golden ticket and kick out

826
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 2: somebody who was taking us for a ride. So yeah,

827
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 2: I guess all of that feeds into the perceptions and

828
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,240
Speaker 2: to your attitudes, et cetera.

829
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: A very interesting point. This is sort of where it

830
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: leads me to. You know, it's a big issue. It's

831
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: a big discussion, and an issue wokesm and it seems

832
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 1: to be that there is this trade off between empathy

833
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 1: towards the people who have bad circumstances and they commit

834
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 1: crimes and therefore, oh well, let's not jail them, let's

835
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: give them another chance and another chance, another chance. That

836
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: that piece compared to actual victims, and there's been a reticence.

837
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: I think in a lot of the more established countries

838
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: around the world, there's been a reticence to make that call.

839
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 1: And of course there is a change you mentioned a

840
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 1: little bit earlier about Canada, US Europe. There's a change

841
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 1: we're starting to say, you know what, let's do what's

842
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: best for the greater good. Yes, and let's just be

843
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 1: acknowledged that there are issues on the other side of it,

844
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 1: but the greater good far outweighs the minority. Do you

845
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:30,879
Speaker 1: think we've been concentrating too much on the minority for

846
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: too long a time, such so much so that the

847
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,720
Speaker 1: the greater good or the greater majority of missing out

848
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: or being affected.

849
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 2: I think there is truth in that, And the approach

850
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 2: that I always took to it was what's in our

851
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 2: country's best interests as sort of the first lens to

852
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 2: look through and then go down into the detail of

853
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 2: the individual and whether even though he's offended, he might

854
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 2: have children, he might have a spouse with a terminal illness,

855
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 2: there might be other extenuating circumstances that you would consider

856
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 2: in that individual case, the likelihood of repeat offending, and

857
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 2: whether there'd been a history of that. I mean, you know,

858
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 2: there are many factors that go through your mind in

859
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 2: a decision making process. But for me, I've always felt

860
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 2: that the primary responsibility is to, you know, what what's

861
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 2: in our country's best interest, because what what defends the

862
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 2: values and what provides for a societal benefit and an

863
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 2: environment that the Australians would expect and have grown up

864
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 2: with and what to bequeath to their children, and and

865
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 2: that obviously they want delivered from their members of parliament.

866
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 2: So that's that's you know, it's a pretty basic approach,

867
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 2: I'm sure, and nothing revolutionary in it, but that's that's

868
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 2: how I how I saw it, and I'm sure that

869
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 2: was influenced in part by you know, my days as

870
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 2: a police officer and as a detective and investig and

871
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 2: going through methodically those cases to try and find, you know,

872
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 2: the justice in the end for for it. And yes,

873
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 2: I think I think a minority have in some cases

874
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 2: trump the rights of the majority. And I think most

875
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 2: people law abiding and ninety nine percent of people who

876
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:26,399
Speaker 2: come to our country want to do the right thing

877
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 2: and have an incredible migrant story in this country that

878
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 2: we don't talk enough about, to be honest, particularly the

879
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 2: post Second World War migration period where people came with nothing,

880
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 2: were laborers and have gone on to make a lot

881
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 2: of money or see their kids educated and provide huge opportunities.

882
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 2: But I just think we live in a great country.

883
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 2: We should be prepared to defend it. And there's you know,

884
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,240
Speaker 2: there's also an element of society and universities and others

885
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 2: in big business and industry super funds who make their

886
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 2: money out of awoke. That's their business, right.

887
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 1: I saw something recently where you had a crack at

888
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: a couple of banks who I mentioned, but who just

889
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: made a decision they weren't going to lend money down

890
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: in Tasmania to for logging. And it's like they're making

891
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 1: decisions relative to influencers that they think are better for

892
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: their brand as opposed it was better for Australia. And

893
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: I think it was in the fin Interview last week

894
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 1: the article, and I guess what I'm getting to a

895
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 1: bitter is that your period and working in the police,

896
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: working as minutes for home affairs, perhaps you're growing as

897
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,399
Speaker 1: a kid who saw tough times but at the same

898
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: time saw people recover from tough times just through effort

899
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: and merit. It is it fair to say, then, maybe

900
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 1: what all those things have done with influence you put

901
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 1: you in a position you're prepared to make the tough decisions, yes,

902
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,359
Speaker 1: and less popular just tough yes.

903
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 2: I mean, if you want to be a super popular character,

904
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 2: then become a movie star or whatever it might be.

905
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 2: But for me, the leadership position and the position of

906
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 2: Prime Minister is about making the decisions that are not

907
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:20,280
Speaker 2: always popular, but that you know in our country's best interests.

908
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 2: And sometimes I've seen examples over the years with some

909
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 2: ministers who know there are glaring problems in their portfolios,

910
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 2: but are either too scared to make the decisions that

911
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 2: need to be made to resolve it, even if it's

912
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 2: causing harm to business or to individuals, and they don't

913
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 2: want the drama, and they're just happy to hand over

914
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 2: the problems to her as coming in behind them at

915
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 2: the next reshuffle or whatever it might be. I just

916
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 2: can't I can't abide that. I think in this job,

917
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 2: you spend a lot of time away from your family.

918
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 2: You know, we do over two hundred flights a year.

919
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 2: We're in a different hotel every night, you're on the

920
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 2: road a lot, you're in Canberra for twenty weeks of

921
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 2: the year. You miss it, miss out on different milestones

922
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 2: for your kids, et cetera. Why would you do that?

923
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 2: And then at the end of your career, nobody could

924
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 2: tell you, or explain even to their friends, what you

925
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,720
Speaker 2: stood for or what you believed in. And I think

926
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 2: better to be known for what values you have and

927
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 2: what good you want to do for the country then

928
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 2: then seeking to offend nobody. And I think that's with

929
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 2: the banks. I mean, my view was that I've said

930
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,439
Speaker 2: this to some of the CEOs that I think they've

931
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 2: got a household brand and an iconic brand that's been

932
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 2: supported by generations of Australians and I think with the

933
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,479
Speaker 2: big paycheck and good luck to them. But I don't

934
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 2: begraduate at all. But with that comes a moral obligation

935
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 2: to give back to our country and to do what's right.

936
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,919
Speaker 2: And if the government of the day determines that log

937
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 2: in Tasmania or salmon farming in Tasmania is a legal activity,

938
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 2: a legal a legal activity, then why do the banks

939
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:17,760
Speaker 2: decide that they have a higher calling to stop lending

940
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 2: to that business because they think that it's what the

941
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 2: proxy voters want to hear, or that it'll make the

942
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 2: more popular online and some you know, social media movement

943
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 2: or whatever it might be. I just I don't get that.

944
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 2: I mean, they should be looking at the credit worthiness

945
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 2: of the applicant. They should be looking at the equity position,

946
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,240
Speaker 2: they should be looking at the cash flow and making

947
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 2: a decision as to whether that person is bankable or not.

948
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 2: Their job is not to decide that that customer is

949
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 2: involved in an industry that's offensive to you know, to

950
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 2: their to their brand. I'm pretty sure that they still

951
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 2: bank outlaw motorcycle gang members. I'm pretty sure that they

952
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 2: still bank the workers and are happy to take the

953
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 2: margin in the loan that that they've written for that

954
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 2: forestry worker. But somehow they want to make themselves a

955
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 2: hero on I just don't think that's their role.

956
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,319
Speaker 1: And that's a pretty strong position to take, and that

957
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 1: sort of takes me back because I'm not remember this

958
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: period quite well when Costello Peter Costello as Treasurer and

959
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 1: John Howard was as Prime Minister. Back in the early

960
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 1: two thousand period, actually nine two thousand when I launched

961
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:28,919
Speaker 1: my original business. We're very vocal about how unfair banks

962
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 1: were to consumers, and whilst it may not have been

963
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:35,760
Speaker 1: that popular because the banks have a massive lobby and

964
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 1: they are the biggest small group of taxpayers in the country,

965
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 1: and by the way, very good banks, and we have

966
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: a great banking system here, the safest in the world,

967
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 1: and we survived you know, gfc's and all that sort

968
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 1: of stuff. But at the same time, they stood up

969
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 1: to them and they had a didn't have a crack

970
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 1: a number. They called them out. We haven't had that

971
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 1: for a long time. Joe Hockey did it for a

972
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 1: period of time, but we haven't had that for a

973
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 1: long time. Is that and normally people say either Liberal

974
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 1: is going to protect the banks? Is that a Peter

975
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: Dutton thing? Though you will call it out, you are

976
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 1: prepared to say what might be unpopular in the newspaper,

977
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: it might be unpopular at the beginn of town, in

978
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 1: order to make sure that we have the right rhythm

979
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 1: in Australia economically.

980
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 2: Yes, And I'm not advocating that their margins should be

981
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 2: capped at x. I'm not suggesting that their profit is

982
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 2: to be distributed evenly amongst every Australian or I'm saying

983
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 2: to them that they have a banking license and with

984
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 2: it comes a responsibility. And if you're in the business

985
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 2: of banking, you're not in the interests, you're not in

986
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 2: the business of politics, and you haven't been elected as

987
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 2: a representative of one hundred thousand people in a seat somewhere.

988
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 2: You're a banker and your job is to maximize the

989
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:03,399
Speaker 2: return for your sharehold to have a strong balance sheet

990
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 2: as you pointed out before, and we've got capital adequacy rules,

991
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 2: et cetera for banks. And I was Peter Costello's assistant

992
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 2: treasurer many years ago, but it's it's in my mind,

993
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 2: it's a statement of the obvious. If you've got a

994
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 2: legal business and they've got the ability to repay their loan,

995
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:25,959
Speaker 2: they've got a good business and it's profitable, and you're

996
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 2: assessing that against an objective criteria as you would with

997
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 2: the next customer that comes through the door. That's that's

998
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 2: the business and that's where it should stop. And telling

999
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 2: us that we can't celebrate Australia Day, or that they

1000
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 2: want to become involved in this social cause but not

1001
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 2: that one. The companies who gave significant money tax or

1002
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:53,320
Speaker 2: shareholders money to the Voice campaign, all of that I

1003
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:57,880
Speaker 2: just think is beyond the remit of their responsibility. And

1004
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 2: their responsibility is to run a stable business, to provide

1005
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:05,720
Speaker 2: adequate return to their shareholders and take care of their customers.

1006
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:07,839
Speaker 2: And I don't think it's too complicated.

1007
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: It's interesting you mentioned Australia Day. Even Australia's like a

1008
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: few days away from from this conversation, austraight A has

1009
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 1: been a football has been kicked around by everybody, counsel's,

1010
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: big business, individual groups, et cetera. Can you give us

1011
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: your take on Australia Day, what's better done? And think

1012
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 1: about that?

1013
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 2: Well. I've had had a few things to say about

1014
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 2: it over the last couple of years, in particular, but

1015
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 2: also in relation to the flag as well. I have

1016
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 2: a great deal of respect for the Indigenous flag and

1017
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 2: the Torres straight Olander flag, but it's not our national flag.

1018
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 2: Spoke before about President Trump's inauguration earlier today, it was

1019
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 2: done under an American flag, not under other flags that

1020
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 2: might be of significance to parts of the population in

1021
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,360
Speaker 2: the United States and the United Kingdom under one flag.

1022
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 2: In Canada that they meet under one flag. It's not

1023
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 2: to say that we have disrespect for people of Indigenous

1024
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 2: heritage or people who really believe passionately about what the flag,

1025
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 2: the indigenous flag represents to them. But my view is

1026
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 2: that we can't be united, we can't deal with reconciliation

1027
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 2: and the hurt of a white settlement in this country

1028
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 2: if we're separating people into three tribes and living under

1029
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 2: three different flags. Ultimately, Australians, whether you came here with

1030
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 2: a bag and a dollar in your pocket in nineteen

1031
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 2: fifty five, or you came here yesterday and became an

1032
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 2: Australian citizen, or you can trace your heritage back sixty

1033
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 2: thousand years. We are all equal Australians. We don't have

1034
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 2: different standards of citizenship in this country. And it's why

1035
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 2: I feel so passionately about the attacks on the Jewish

1036
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 2: community at the moment. I just I can't abide any

1037
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 2: part of our society treated differently to the next part

1038
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 2: of society, on religious belief, on political belief, the color

1039
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 2: of his skin, whatever. And to me, Australia Day is

1040
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 2: a celebration of our indigenous heritage and our migrant story,

1041
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 2: which started with the British coming over but has now

1042
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 2: melded into people coming from the four corners of the Earth.

1043
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 2: And again, as I said earlier, I just don't think

1044
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 2: we celebrate the great stories of Greeks and Italians and

1045
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 2: people who came from Eastern Europe and came from Vietnam,

1046
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 2: and came from other parts of the world and have

1047
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 2: become medical researchers and members of parliament and successful business people.

1048
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 2: And I think for millions of those people who got

1049
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 2: sworn in, who became Australian citizens on Australia Day. That

1050
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 2: is a significant day for them and their families and

1051
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 2: their forebears. And we have to deal with the hurt

1052
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 2: of a part of the Indigenous population that is represented

1053
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 2: in January twenty sixth. But I think there are other

1054
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 2: ways in which we can provide that support and that

1055
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 2: practical support. But if we continue to bash ourselves up

1056
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 2: as a country, and that goes on and on and on,

1057
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 2: and it's taught in schools and universities, I don't think

1058
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 2: we can be the best country that we need to be.

1059
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 2: And that's why I feel passionately about it. It's not

1060
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 2: driven or motivated by anything other than how can we

1061
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:37,080
Speaker 2: provide the best for our people and for our future?

1062
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 1: How do we get there? Though, because it is a thing,

1063
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 1: you know, wogism, and in fact it's nearly a has

1064
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 1: been a particularly over the last two months for me anyway,

1065
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 1: it's sort of scary to take a position on something

1066
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 1: because you're worried you're going to get canceled because your livelihood, well,

1067
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 1: the thing you're passionate about it depends on audience. And

1068
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:03,920
Speaker 1: let's call it acceptability as opposed to popularity. How did

1069
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 1: we get to that position, you think, I mean it

1070
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 1: was that a global movement.

1071
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 2: It's a global movement. I mean it's starting to weighe now,

1072
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 2: I think. And again it's a life cycle. It's just

1073
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 2: getting to a different part of the debate, and it'll

1074
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 2: be advanced now with President Trump being elected. And if

1075
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 2: there's a change of leadership in Canada and just Sindra A.

1076
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 2: Durn's gone in New Zealand. I think Anthony Elbanezi is

1077
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 2: trying to grasp on to it, but I just think

1078
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 2: most of strains have moved on. I also think in

1079
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 2: our country, the voice allowed people to say, you know,

1080
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 2: I thank goodness. I thought I was the only one

1081
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 2: who thought that, you know, this wasn't necessary, wasn't a

1082
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 2: good thing for our country. I want to help indigenous people,

1083
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:47,320
Speaker 2: but just didn't think this was the way to do it.

1084
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden it turns out, well, there

1085
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 2: are six seven out of ten in your workplace that

1086
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 2: think exactly the same way as you do. So I

1087
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 2: think it's allowed people a little bit of breathing space

1088
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 2: and they're more inclined to be able to speak out.

1089
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 2: So where does it come from. I think there are

1090
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 2: a lot of universities who have worked on this. I

1091
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 2: think it's a movement of the left. And again, this

1092
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 2: is a business model for some people. And I just

1093
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 2: don't believe that we should discriminate on the basis of

1094
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:22,080
Speaker 2: gender or race, or on any basis. And I think

1095
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 2: this is when you look at part of the outcome

1096
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 2: in the United States election, when they look at young

1097
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 2: males who are moving, I think a lot of young

1098
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 2: males feel disenfranchised and feel ostracized, and they're saying, well,

1099
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:40,919
Speaker 2: hang on, I have nothing but respect for women, and

1100
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 2: I would never treat my female friends differently than my

1101
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 2: male friends. But I'm being told that I'm some sort

1102
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 2: of ogre or I have some belief structure which is

1103
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 2: true to that which I know is what I hold

1104
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:01,919
Speaker 2: in my heart. And there's i think, just a point

1105
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 2: where people are fed up and there and they're pushing

1106
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:07,440
Speaker 2: back and saying, well, why am I being overlooked at

1107
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 2: work for a job, you know, three jobs running? When

1108
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 2: I've got a partner at home and she's decided to

1109
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 2: stay at home with three young kids, and I want

1110
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:20,640
Speaker 2: a promotion at work so that I can help pay

1111
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 2: the bills at home, and so I think all of

1112
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 2: that has morphed. I also think there's, to your point, marketman,

1113
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:32,120
Speaker 2: a lot of CEOs who have public listed companies, who

1114
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 2: have got HR and marketing people saying to them, don't

1115
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 2: enter into these debates, don't say anything. Whereas a generation

1116
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 2: to go, the CEOs of BHP or Cohals or Myers

1117
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 2: or you know, the big sort of iconic brands felt

1118
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 2: an obligation to be on the front page of the

1119
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 2: finn advocating for tax change, or for industrial relations reform,

1120
01:03:54,440 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 2: or for workplace whatever it might have been. And now

1121
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 2: they only feel that they can comment on in support

1122
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 2: of some of the white causes because their marketing people

1123
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 2: are telling them that will get them greater popularity online. Again,

1124
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 2: I just think it's a level of weakness that doesn't

1125
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 2: serve our country, our country's best interests.

1126
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 1: So and I I listen to President Trump this morning.

1127
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 1: It for him and after he's inaugurational, listening to his speech,

1128
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 1: and he said from and it's a different structure there.

1129
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 1: He can make these decisions, of course, because you know,

1130
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 1: the president has these executive perils which prime ministers won't have.

1131
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 1: You won't have them. We don't have But he said

1132
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 1: there's only going to be two genders, male and female.

1133
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 1: And I thought about it. I thought, wow, that's going

1134
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:45,919
Speaker 1: to be a lot of transgender people were unhappy about

1135
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 1: that at search, but I thought himself, well, actually probably

1136
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 1: makes sense. Anyone can do what they want. If you

1137
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 1: want to change your sex, that's fine. As long as

1138
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 1: you're of age and you want to do it, that's

1139
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:55,480
Speaker 1: up to you what you want to do. If you

1140
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 1: if you don't want to be identified as male or female,

1141
01:04:58,360 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 1: that's fine, has no druma. But what he was saying

1142
01:04:59,920 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 1: is is that we're only going to have male or female,

1143
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 1: nothing else in between.

1144
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 2: But there's a big debate in the UK, where there's

1145
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 2: a labor government at the moment, there's a big debate

1146
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 2: there about this issue and medications and what doctors are prescribing,

1147
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 2: and particularly for younger children who might identify in a

1148
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 2: way that we wouldn't have sent a generation to go

1149
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 2: or that debate is maturing there as well, and you're

1150
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 2: going through a different phase.

1151
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 1: And what do you think about that though? For example,

1152
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 1: like schools talking to kids when they're young kids in

1153
01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 1: early school periods that's their choice as to what they become.

1154
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:46,560
Speaker 2: Well, I default back to the position that I took before,

1155
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 2: and that is about the firstly, the innocence of childhood.

1156
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:56,440
Speaker 2: I want to do everything I can to provide an

1157
01:05:56,520 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 2: environment where kids can be brought up in environment where frankly,

1158
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 2: they're not being pressured one way or the other, that

1159
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:08,320
Speaker 2: they can be themselves, that they can live a happy

1160
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 2: and peaceful existence. And that has come traditionally in my case,

1161
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 2: from the perspective of making sure that children are subject

1162
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 2: of physical or sexual abuse, but it also extends into curriculum,

1163
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 2: into the education system, and I think right with the

1164
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:33,640
Speaker 2: whole influence of social media and now kids are being

1165
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 2: forced to grow up much more quickly than what they

1166
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 2: otherwise would have. But I also strong believer in the individual,

1167
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 2: which is a core part of the liberal belief and

1168
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:51,200
Speaker 2: the men's in tradition in our party. And I don't

1169
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 2: as a government have a role to play in somebody's

1170
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 2: private life or their sexual life and their identity and

1171
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 2: how they deal with that is issue for them. Where

1172
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:04,960
Speaker 2: where it causes me concern is if you've got an

1173
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 2: activist teacher talking to a year three class, or talking

1174
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 2: to seven or eight year olds or nine year olds,

1175
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:17,280
Speaker 2: which is at odds with what their parents believe they

1176
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:19,960
Speaker 2: should be taught. And I think it comes down to

1177
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 2: parental decision and parental discussion, and that's that's as as

1178
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 2: I see it. I just don't. I've never believed in

1179
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 2: discrimination against anybody on any basis, as as I mentioned earlier,

1180
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 2: and so I think there's a lot of there's a

1181
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 2: lot of personal decision making based on advice from doctors.

1182
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 2: And but if you've got a teacher who is pushing

1183
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 2: a particular line or is trying to arrive at a

1184
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:51,960
Speaker 2: particular outcome, then then I've got a huge problem with that.

1185
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 1: I might just sort of flipo because I'm I'm apologize

1186
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 1: if I'm getting into heavy to heavy stuff. How do

1187
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 1: you support in Rugby League? I support the Broncos, now

1188
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:06,920
Speaker 1: I saw you at the launch of the Dolphins.

1189
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:12,400
Speaker 2: Well yeah, we put so the Dolphins. My electric's probably

1190
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 2: a catchment. Probably it is in your Redcliffe, not in

1191
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:19,559
Speaker 2: my electric, it's just outside, but it's within the same

1192
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:23,760
Speaker 2: council area, so it's within the Morton Bay Council. So

1193
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 2: Luke Howse spent a great champion as the local member

1194
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:30,719
Speaker 2: out in Redcliffe for the Dolphins, and and I also

1195
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 2: I thought it was fantastic to have another team in

1196
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:39,400
Speaker 2: the comp and we supported them with funding when we

1197
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 2: were in government for their stadium and to try and

1198
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:45,479
Speaker 2: put some money into the bid. So I'm incredibly excited

1199
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 2: about the Dolphins, but.

1200
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:50,080
Speaker 1: You forget about the right goso Well, but.

1201
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:53,599
Speaker 2: To see the trouble is that I can't change teams.

1202
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:57,680
Speaker 2: And I know some people, some people do and you

1203
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:01,280
Speaker 2: could probably justify it in their minds in that circumstance

1204
01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:05,760
Speaker 2: that you could become a Dolphins supporter. But I just

1205
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:07,880
Speaker 2: I pick and stick, and I just you know, I

1206
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:12,240
Speaker 2: grew up, well, not grew up with with the Broncos,

1207
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 2: but I you know, I went to a lot of

1208
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:21,720
Speaker 2: Broncos games in early years and I've been with them

1209
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 2: through thick and thin, and so I couldn't switch on

1210
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 2: that basis And to magic, I haven't spoken to me,

1211
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:33,559
Speaker 2: but I had actually went for a walk with Carl

1212
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:35,800
Speaker 2: Morris this morning, the chair of the Broncos so and

1213
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:38,840
Speaker 2: he was telling me how good a job Major is

1214
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 2: doing so and he's a great leader. He'll, I think

1215
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:44,400
Speaker 2: he'll he'll give him a good season this season.

1216
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 1: Well, Andrew Webster, we saw he found out you were

1217
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:49,600
Speaker 1: coming inside this morning. The journalist, a great journalist, Lindy

1218
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 1: and Weeby said, ask me. I asked you the question,

1219
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:52,600
Speaker 1: what do you think about P and G coming in

1220
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:53,120
Speaker 1: the competition?

1221
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:55,960
Speaker 2: Well, it's a lot of bucks, six hundred million dollars

1222
01:09:56,200 --> 01:10:00,160
Speaker 2: and I understand the you know the the I mean,

1223
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:02,599
Speaker 2: this is motivations for it. I think there's a lot

1224
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 2: of skepticism, particularly from the Cowboys about what happens if

1225
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:09,479
Speaker 2: players are based in cans or they're flying in flying

1226
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:12,679
Speaker 2: out from North Queensane. And I think particularly the women's

1227
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 2: side of the Cowboys have got a fair following in

1228
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 2: in Cans. So look, if it can work, it's a

1229
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 2: good thing for the relationship between the two countries. As

1230
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:28,920
Speaker 2: you know, rugby league is religion in P ANDNG and

1231
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 2: I've had a fair bit to do with Melvinenger over

1232
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 2: the years, a great like and he's done a lot

1233
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:38,599
Speaker 2: of work up there. And so there's a huge following

1234
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:43,599
Speaker 2: particularly for Queenslane in the state of origin and probably

1235
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:46,800
Speaker 2: traditionally the Broncos for a lot of people out of

1236
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:49,000
Speaker 2: P and G. So look, I think it's good if

1237
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 2: it helps develop a junior's program, and it becomes a

1238
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 2: focal point for good in a society which is doing

1239
01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 2: it pretty tough. But it's a lot of money, and

1240
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 2: the question is can it hold together. I mean there's

1241
01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 2: the talk of tax free, the tax free status for

1242
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 2: the players. There'll be a lot of players reluctant to

1243
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:14,320
Speaker 2: take their families into Port Moresby. So you know, there

1244
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:18,120
Speaker 2: are a lot of difficult elements to it. But I

1245
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:21,080
Speaker 2: think once forl Andy sets his mind to it, it's

1246
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:22,840
Speaker 2: pretty hard to see him deviating from it.

1247
01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:25,840
Speaker 1: So if I did say I was going to park this,

1248
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:27,880
Speaker 1: and I parked, and I'm going to reverse that out

1249
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:36,080
Speaker 1: of the parking spot means about Peter Dutton, mister potato,

1250
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:39,920
Speaker 1: heead you just explained. Where do you think that's come from?

1251
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:42,640
Speaker 1: I mean maybe your mates? Of course that because you

1252
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 1: do have a condition, So let's talk about that.

1253
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:48,240
Speaker 2: Well, it's well, my kids get a great laugh out

1254
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:50,679
Speaker 2: of it. But I do say to my two boys

1255
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 2: who are twenty and nineteen that when I look back

1256
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:56,080
Speaker 2: at photos when I was twenty and nineteen, I actually

1257
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 2: had more hair than they do now, So be careful

1258
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:02,599
Speaker 2: look out exactly, And when I say mate, when you

1259
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 2: know you can give me, you can give me a

1260
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 2: shit about that. But when you look at me, you're

1261
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:08,640
Speaker 2: looking you've got an eye into the future, So just

1262
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:13,479
Speaker 2: be careful, and that normally kills the conversation. Say but no, look,

1263
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:16,400
Speaker 2: I remember giving my uncle heaps a crap when I

1264
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:18,600
Speaker 2: don't know, maybe I was fifteen sixteen and he was

1265
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 2: losing his hair. And as it turns out, I've now

1266
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:24,479
Speaker 2: got less hair than him, so it's a calmer baby.

1267
01:12:24,479 --> 01:12:29,080
Speaker 2: But but yeah, so I've got a skin condition alopecia.

1268
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:34,519
Speaker 2: Alopecia which shad, which is sort of accelerated if you like,

1269
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 2: the probably a natural gene of baldness that I was

1270
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:39,760
Speaker 2: going to end up with anyway, because you know, my

1271
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:42,800
Speaker 2: hair was starting to sort of thin out in my

1272
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:47,639
Speaker 2: early twenties. So and I took a decision. Well, with

1273
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:49,400
Speaker 2: with alopecia, it means once it falls out, it can't

1274
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:53,680
Speaker 2: grow back. Whereas you know, if you look at sort

1275
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:59,680
Speaker 2: of a yeah yeah type option that you could take, yeah,

1276
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 2: there that that's probably not something I could have done anyway,

1277
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:03,800
Speaker 2: But I didn't know that.

1278
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:05,320
Speaker 1: Imagine the ship you're made to give you if you

1279
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 1: went did.

1280
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:07,640
Speaker 2: Well one of my mates said to me, you know,

1281
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 2: a little while gas, it made you looks so much

1282
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:12,559
Speaker 2: better on TV, you know, with with hair, I saw

1283
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:15,880
Speaker 2: you know the choice I reckon, you reckon, I'd go

1284
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:19,040
Speaker 2: for this style. So yeah, look, and that's where I

1285
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:21,719
Speaker 2: mean the potato thing was. So that's only come about,

1286
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,920
Speaker 2: I think in recent years. And no, I had a

1287
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:28,679
Speaker 2: great cropper hair back in the day. But yeah, that's

1288
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:29,760
Speaker 2: that's we might put it.

1289
01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:36,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, get ready, but but but you see your roll

1290
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 1: with the punches. Sometimes it does look like people having to dig,

1291
01:13:40,320 --> 01:13:45,240
Speaker 1: particularly in terms of your opposition. People take political fun

1292
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:47,160
Speaker 1: out of put political fun out of it, and or

1293
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:50,000
Speaker 1: sometimes it might even go a little bit further than that.

1294
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:52,719
Speaker 1: You never know their attentions, but it can feel that way.

1295
01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 1: How do you deal with that sort of stuff? What

1296
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:55,840
Speaker 1: do you do about it? I mean, what has been

1297
01:13:55,880 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 1: done to go? Or does he just say just chilly?

1298
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:01,320
Speaker 1: This is the game.

1299
01:14:02,240 --> 01:14:06,040
Speaker 2: Look. People deal with with it different in different ways.

1300
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:08,120
Speaker 2: And you know, if you're in the public eye, then

1301
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:13,120
Speaker 2: you've got to expect it. I use it as fuel

1302
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:16,840
Speaker 2: in the tank, and what they don't realize is that

1303
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:21,160
Speaker 2: it just makes me more determined to succeed and I

1304
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:24,320
Speaker 2: don't say that lightly, because you've got to listen to criticism.

1305
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:28,920
Speaker 2: But where it's personal criticism about your physical appearance and

1306
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:31,040
Speaker 2: the rest of it, it's sort of it's water off

1307
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:32,840
Speaker 2: a ducts back in a sense, because I think, well,

1308
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 2: you know, have you got the perfect nose, or you

1309
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:37,880
Speaker 2: know it's your hair part of the right way, or

1310
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 2: you know you're going you're thinning out on top, or

1311
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:43,920
Speaker 2: you're carrying a bit of a gut, but you know,

1312
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:48,679
Speaker 2: say what, And I just think people expect more mature

1313
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:51,640
Speaker 2: debate than that. I think part of the reason that

1314
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:54,960
Speaker 2: the personal attacks come from Labor is because you know,

1315
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:56,720
Speaker 2: I think they've had a pretty shabby two and a

1316
01:14:56,760 --> 01:15:00,400
Speaker 2: half years. There's not many achievements of the Albany's government

1317
01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:02,479
Speaker 2: that they could point to, I mean for the last

1318
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 2: few months. So that really means, say, the last six

1319
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:07,720
Speaker 2: months of the Albanza government. All I've talked about is

1320
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:09,200
Speaker 2: what they'll do in the next term, when nobody can

1321
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:11,679
Speaker 2: tell you what they've done this term. And so if

1322
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:14,559
Speaker 2: you concentrate on a two horse race, I'm trying to

1323
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:18,320
Speaker 2: pull the other blake down, then maybe it's you know,

1324
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:21,960
Speaker 2: look over here, but not at our failings, then labor

1325
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 2: think they can get away with it. But for me,

1326
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:28,400
Speaker 2: I think you develop a thick skin. I'm guided by

1327
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:33,479
Speaker 2: what I know is right according to my values. You

1328
01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:35,760
Speaker 2: don't always get it right. You accept the criticism when

1329
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:38,360
Speaker 2: you get it wrong, and you correct the record. But

1330
01:15:38,439 --> 01:15:39,720
Speaker 2: you know, there are different things that I've said over

1331
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:41,280
Speaker 2: the years where I've said, Look, if what I've said

1332
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:43,920
Speaker 2: is factually in correct, I'll correct the record in a heartbeat.

1333
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:49,400
Speaker 2: But if what I've said is is just offensive to

1334
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:52,680
Speaker 2: you because you've got a different perspective than mine, I'm

1335
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 2: not apologizing for that, and I'm not going to shout

1336
01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 2: you down when you express your view that's contrary to mind.

1337
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:01,599
Speaker 2: We live in the greatestmocracy in the world and should

1338
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:04,519
Speaker 2: encourage free speech and try and do away with the

1339
01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:08,160
Speaker 2: personal attacks. I mean, when I describe Anthony Albanezi is weak,

1340
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:11,559
Speaker 2: it's not saying that he's weak because you know, if

1341
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 2: he's height, or because of his skin color or any

1342
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:18,840
Speaker 2: nonsense like that. I call him weak because I don't

1343
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 2: think he has the ability to make the tough decisions

1344
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:26,880
Speaker 2: and to call out the wrong that's in our society.

1345
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 2: And so for me, that's that that's the motivation. I

1346
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:35,960
Speaker 2: don't say it from you know, sticks and stones sort

1347
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:41,640
Speaker 2: of perspective. It's it's not a name calling thing that

1348
01:16:41,680 --> 01:16:43,840
Speaker 2: I engage in. And look, I think most people are

1349
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:47,519
Speaker 2: smarter than that. They see through the memes and the

1350
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:51,880
Speaker 2: name calling, and that's that's just you know, I think

1351
01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:53,120
Speaker 2: that's part of part of life.

1352
01:16:53,560 --> 01:16:57,719
Speaker 1: Peter Dutton's in his early fifties now feel much oldermate

1353
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:04,479
Speaker 1: worse once you become promise, but what do you do

1354
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:07,920
Speaker 1: for yourself in terms of just physical health and like

1355
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:11,120
Speaker 1: do you have a regime like food? Sleep? So he's

1356
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:15,640
Speaker 1: probably a difficult one. But exercise, what's the deal with you?

1357
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:18,840
Speaker 2: It kills me if I can't get to the gym

1358
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:21,160
Speaker 2: or go for a walk in the morning, and I

1359
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:22,880
Speaker 2: just find it's such a better start to the day.

1360
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:24,680
Speaker 1: Is that early start than to see you?

1361
01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:30,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I start reading the papers about four point thirty,

1362
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:33,880
Speaker 2: I'll go for a walk. At five, I'll go to

1363
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:36,960
Speaker 2: the gym and generally that's sort of over by about

1364
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:41,439
Speaker 2: six thirty seven. I meditate, which I believe strongly in

1365
01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:43,760
Speaker 2: and not for everybody, but for me. It allows you

1366
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:45,679
Speaker 2: to clear the mind either before you go to sleep,

1367
01:17:46,439 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 2: or at the start of the day or during the day.

1368
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:51,080
Speaker 2: I think it helps you deal with, you know, whatever

1369
01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:51,880
Speaker 2: load you've got.

1370
01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:53,760
Speaker 1: More time meditation. We bet talk about Peter, is it

1371
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:55,640
Speaker 1: like box breathing or are you talking about.

1372
01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:58,479
Speaker 2: I've just I've just got a mantras, so and so

1373
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:02,840
Speaker 2: Luke Darcy's I've got a mutual mate. And Darcy's big

1374
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:06,960
Speaker 2: into meditation. And for me, when I look at somebody

1375
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:11,360
Speaker 2: like Luke Darcy, he's got great balance in his home life.

1376
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:16,240
Speaker 2: He's a great dad and husband. He has got obviously

1377
01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 2: incredible success that he's enjoyed, you know, in AFL, but

1378
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:24,519
Speaker 2: he's also had a successful business career and post career,

1379
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:27,559
Speaker 2: and I think part of that is through his meditation.

1380
01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:30,360
Speaker 2: So and as I say, for some people it's religion.

1381
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:34,639
Speaker 2: For some people it's you know, sport, or it's whatever,

1382
01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 2: and so each to their own. I don't you know,

1383
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:42,640
Speaker 2: I'm not preaching or telling people what they should do,

1384
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:48,160
Speaker 2: but for me that that has been important. I'd love

1385
01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:50,880
Speaker 2: to be better at food and more disciplined at diet,

1386
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:57,200
Speaker 2: and I try and cut back and particularly nighttime, you know,

1387
01:18:57,280 --> 01:19:00,000
Speaker 2: sort of portion sizes because you're out at a line

1388
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:03,840
Speaker 2: and dinner every day and I try if I can

1389
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:07,160
Speaker 2: to either skip breakfast, but sometimes if I've got a

1390
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:11,360
Speaker 2: really full day, I think the energy of breakfast in

1391
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:14,040
Speaker 2: the morning is an important meal. So it just depends

1392
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:17,000
Speaker 2: on what's on in the diary. I'd love to say

1393
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:18,800
Speaker 2: that I don't have a sweet tooth and that I

1394
01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:22,439
Speaker 2: don't enjoy a steak and a glass of red or

1395
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:26,360
Speaker 2: two and a few, you know, a few beers with mates.

1396
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:32,679
Speaker 2: So but for me, it's sort of balance, and it's

1397
01:19:32,439 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 2: it's trying to get that balance right in a busy

1398
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:39,800
Speaker 2: lifestyle and also get that family piece right. Like the

1399
01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:42,439
Speaker 2: worst thing in my mind would be going home to

1400
01:19:43,080 --> 01:19:45,800
Speaker 2: an empty house after having been in a hotel six

1401
01:19:45,800 --> 01:19:49,280
Speaker 2: different hotel rooms during the week. So the kids are

1402
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:54,479
Speaker 2: you know, sacrosanct and watching. I've always made a habit,

1403
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:58,400
Speaker 2: even as Defense Minister or Home Affairs whatever, health minister

1404
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:02,280
Speaker 2: or assistant treasurer, always made the point of being there

1405
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:05,840
Speaker 2: probably nine out of ten of their rugby games or

1406
01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:10,559
Speaker 2: swimming for Rebecca on a Friday night, or you know,

1407
01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:14,240
Speaker 2: cricket or whatever, because that's important to them. But it's

1408
01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:20,240
Speaker 2: also for me to switch off from work and and

1409
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:23,840
Speaker 2: you know, I've always gained enjoyment from watching them season

1410
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:27,400
Speaker 2: to season grow and develop and and turn into young adults.

1411
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:30,360
Speaker 2: And that's so yeah, I mean it's everyone finds their

1412
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:33,000
Speaker 2: own formula. But that's that's in part mine.

1413
01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:35,640
Speaker 1: And your and your wife, Like do you have like

1414
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:38,320
Speaker 1: I mean, not a date night, but a night you

1415
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:41,040
Speaker 1: allocate say, look, let's go and have got out of

1416
01:20:41,080 --> 01:20:44,640
Speaker 1: the pub, gose local, have a beer or have a

1417
01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:47,880
Speaker 1: have a meal. I mean, because it made is pretty tough,

1418
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:50,280
Speaker 1: especially when you're a whale all a whole lot of

1419
01:20:50,320 --> 01:20:53,000
Speaker 1: the time. But what's what's the process of something.

1420
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 2: Like definitely, I mean you've got to prioritize. And you know,

1421
01:20:57,080 --> 01:21:00,680
Speaker 2: John Howd I think gave a couple of points on

1422
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:03,200
Speaker 2: this couple of pieces of advice early on. It was

1423
01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:07,519
Speaker 2: always never run late for a plane because of the

1424
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:10,280
Speaker 2: stress and grief that it causes you, particularly if you're

1425
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:15,040
Speaker 2: flying daily, which I don't always here to, but it's

1426
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:18,680
Speaker 2: good advice. And secondly, you know, speak to your wife

1427
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:21,599
Speaker 2: at least a couple of times a day, and so

1428
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:24,639
Speaker 2: I you know, particularly with FaceTime or whatever and the kids,

1429
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:27,639
Speaker 2: you can do that more easily than when I first

1430
01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:31,640
Speaker 2: went into parliament. But so I do that, you know,

1431
01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:34,960
Speaker 2: morning and night or twice a day. Try not to

1432
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:37,920
Speaker 2: do it more than that, or particularly when the kids

1433
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:41,920
Speaker 2: were young during the course of you know, when they're

1434
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:44,360
Speaker 2: getting ready for meals or whatever, because I think that

1435
01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:47,599
Speaker 2: would be unhappy times in the relationship and it caused grief.

1436
01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 2: But no matter. I think maintaining those lines of communication,

1437
01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:56,800
Speaker 2: sharing your days, but also when you get home, leaving

1438
01:21:56,800 --> 01:22:00,439
Speaker 2: it at the front door as well. And so yes,

1439
01:22:00,479 --> 01:22:03,360
Speaker 2: I mean date nights, are going out for for a

1440
01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:06,799
Speaker 2: meal or just having you know, takeaway on the couch

1441
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:09,640
Speaker 2: watching footy on a Friday night, or just you know

1442
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:10,639
Speaker 2: normally good stuff.

1443
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:16,680
Speaker 1: Absolutely, how could absolutely is the best you said right

1444
01:22:16,720 --> 01:22:20,479
Speaker 1: at the beginning, Peter Dutton, I was happy to when

1445
01:22:20,479 --> 01:22:22,720
Speaker 1: he was a young kid, in order to deal with

1446
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:25,720
Speaker 1: the shyness to get on the front calendar at the

1447
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:34,679
Speaker 1: butcher shop and deal with whoever it was Piddans vying

1448
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:37,480
Speaker 1: for the position of prime minister, dealing with everyone in Australia.

1449
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:42,120
Speaker 1: Is that a way of dealing with because my sense

1450
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:43,200
Speaker 1: is still a pretty shy bloke.

1451
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:46,559
Speaker 2: Ye, still shy I am actually, and I don't I

1452
01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:49,559
Speaker 2: don't seek the public light at all. But you are

1453
01:22:49,640 --> 01:22:51,960
Speaker 2: going for post politics. You'll never hear from here again.

1454
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:53,200
Speaker 2: I'll be happy to.

1455
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:55,679
Speaker 1: If you get in, you'll be in for a while.

1456
01:22:55,720 --> 01:23:00,760
Speaker 1: So is do you ever think about that? You know,

1457
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:03,479
Speaker 1: this is just the same kid when he was eight, nine,

1458
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:06,519
Speaker 1: ten eleven being pushed into the front of the calendar

1459
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:09,599
Speaker 1: to deal with all the people. Now you're Peter Dutton dialing,

1460
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:11,320
Speaker 1: who is still as shy and my gut and my

1461
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:15,160
Speaker 1: gut feeling is just still a shy I did is

1462
01:23:15,200 --> 01:23:17,960
Speaker 1: now going to push himself into the biggest counter in

1463
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:18,400
Speaker 1: the country.

1464
01:23:18,479 --> 01:23:20,320
Speaker 2: Yes, And I think over the last couple of years

1465
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:26,200
Speaker 2: as leader, you know that's been necessary. And if you

1466
01:23:26,240 --> 01:23:28,320
Speaker 2: look at you know whether the Prime Minister and I

1467
01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:31,120
Speaker 2: have sort of locked. And I think the polling is

1468
01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:35,280
Speaker 2: today forty three a piece on preferred prime minister. My

1469
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:38,439
Speaker 2: net favorabilities are much higher than the Prime minister. So

1470
01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:41,760
Speaker 2: that's been sort of a twenty point turnaround good for me,

1471
01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:44,800
Speaker 2: bad for him over the last couple of years. And

1472
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:46,680
Speaker 2: I think that in part has been because people have

1473
01:23:47,439 --> 01:23:49,840
Speaker 2: seen a different side or they've thought, well, hang on,

1474
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:51,800
Speaker 2: I've heard all this stuff and how bad he was

1475
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:54,080
Speaker 2: over these years. But I've heard him speak or heard

1476
01:23:54,120 --> 01:23:57,800
Speaker 2: him interview interviewed somewhere, and actually a lot of what

1477
01:23:57,800 --> 01:24:00,799
Speaker 2: he said I agree with, or I think it's unfair

1478
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:03,120
Speaker 2: that they characterize him that way, or you know whatever,

1479
01:24:04,640 --> 01:24:09,519
Speaker 2: and so so I think that happens naturally. Anyway. I

1480
01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:11,600
Speaker 2: like to think that I've kept my feet on the

1481
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:15,600
Speaker 2: ground pretty much. I've still got the same group of

1482
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:20,320
Speaker 2: mates from school, and still they're as loyal to me

1483
01:24:20,400 --> 01:24:23,240
Speaker 2: as I am to them. And again, sort of the

1484
01:24:23,240 --> 01:24:25,760
Speaker 2: pick and stick thing, and so loyalty has always been

1485
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:29,960
Speaker 2: a really important commodity for me in relationships and in

1486
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:34,960
Speaker 2: what I do, and and so yeah, I think therefore,

1487
01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:38,519
Speaker 2: naturally some of those same attributes from the shy kid

1488
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:43,240
Speaker 2: on the counter probably still still carry through. And I

1489
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 2: always feel, you know, for somebody like Steve Smith for example,

1490
01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:50,240
Speaker 2: or you know, you could rattle off other you know,

1491
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:54,960
Speaker 2: codes and sports and whatever, but they're talented and that

1492
01:24:55,439 --> 01:24:59,200
Speaker 2: their talent is to play, you know, their sport for

1493
01:24:59,240 --> 01:25:02,080
Speaker 2: their country and that's the pinnacle of their success that

1494
01:25:02,120 --> 01:25:05,040
Speaker 2: they've dreamt about as a young kid. But they don't

1495
01:25:05,240 --> 01:25:08,280
Speaker 2: crave the limelight, but it comes with it, and there's

1496
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:11,360
Speaker 2: there's no separating the two. And I think when you

1497
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:14,120
Speaker 2: accept that that's just the reality. You live your life

1498
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:18,519
Speaker 2: that way. But you know, like you sometimes going out

1499
01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:22,760
Speaker 2: to a restaurant, you better off just to stay at

1500
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:25,040
Speaker 2: home and have a quiet night, because it's totally it's

1501
01:25:25,040 --> 01:25:26,720
Speaker 2: great to meet people and the rest of it, but

1502
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:32,880
Speaker 2: it just you can't get that privacy, and it's sometimes

1503
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:34,719
Speaker 2: it just becomes a bit much.

1504
01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:37,559
Speaker 1: But I don't want to thank you for your openness

1505
01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:41,000
Speaker 1: today and we want to wish you the very best

1506
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:42,880
Speaker 1: to luck in the upcoming election, which by the way,

1507
01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:46,679
Speaker 1: hasn't been announced, but it's happening because it's coming.

1508
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:50,120
Speaker 2: Thanks very much, mate, I really appreciate it. Thanks for

1509
01:25:50,120 --> 01:25:58,000
Speaker 2: having me on. Thank you