WEBVTT - Credlin | 7 October 0:00:08.730 --> 0:00:12.299 Good evening and welcome to the show. I'm Jamie Rogers 0:00:12.460 --> 0:00:16.680 in for Peter Credlin. She is back tomorrow. Here's what's 0:00:16.700 --> 0:00:22.599 coming up tonight. Three years since the horrors of October 7, tonight, 0:00:22.820 --> 0:00:25.570 how the world failed the Jewish community in the years 0:00:25.630 --> 0:00:29.470 that followed and why anti-Semitism has been allowed to become 0:00:29.750 --> 0:00:36.290 frighteningly normal. Labor's primary vote crashes to a record low 25%. 0:00:36.290 --> 0:00:41.050 Could Labor power brokers be considering a leadership challenge for 0:00:41.070 --> 0:00:44.839 a prime minister under pressure? Plus, the fallout from the 0:00:44.900 --> 0:00:48.559 ban of credit card surcharge grows with the tax commissioner 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:52.979 forced into an emergency meeting as small businesses fight back. 0:00:53.940 --> 0:00:56.620 New South Wales coal mines could be forced to account 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:01.200 for emissions overseas in a landmark climate ruling. But has 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:04.450 the High Court crossed the line from interpreting the law 0:01:04.930 --> 0:01:05.730 to making it? 0:01:06.550 --> 0:01:09.190 The way the Australian law has typically worked in the 0:01:09.230 --> 0:01:14.020 past is that Australian governments, Australian companies are responsible for 0:01:14.060 --> 0:01:18.339 the emissions they generate in Australia. Traditionally, the emissions that 0:01:18.380 --> 0:01:22.050 are generated when that product is sent overseas They count 0:01:22.090 --> 0:01:25.490 towards that country's emissions rather than Australia's emissions. That's how 0:01:25.510 --> 0:01:26.929 the whole Paris Agreement works. 0:01:28.830 --> 0:01:33.319 Well, today marks three years since Hamas terrorists stormed into Israel, 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:40.000 murdering more than 1,200 people, taking 251 hostages. Families were 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:43.690 slaughtered in their homes. Young people hunted down at a 0:01:43.730 --> 0:01:48.110 music festival. And three years later, look at what's happened. 0:01:48.860 --> 0:01:52.780 Australia and much of the world has failed the Jewish community. 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:57.550 October 7 should have been a moment of absolute moral 0:01:57.650 --> 0:02:03.150 clarity that we stand with our ally against terrorism. But instead, 0:02:03.730 --> 0:02:06.730 October 7 became the breeding ground for a new wave 0:02:06.780 --> 0:02:12.680 of anti-Semitism that's left the Jewish community constantly threatened and attacked. 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:17.750 Somehow Hamas disappeared from the story. And instead, much of 0:02:17.810 --> 0:02:21.930 the world's fury was directed at Israel. And we've watched 0:02:21.990 --> 0:02:27.870 it happen. This distinction between attacking Israel, attacking Zionism and 0:02:27.930 --> 0:02:34.860 attacking Jews has become dangerously blurred. In Australia, anti-Semitic incidents 0:02:34.900 --> 0:02:38.720 have run at more than five times the pre-October 7 average. 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:43.590 Across the country, we've seen Jewish businesses, synagogues and even 0:02:43.710 --> 0:02:49.450 cars defaced. But still, it got worse. On December 14 0:02:49.450 --> 0:02:54.220 last year, Jewish Australians gathered at Bondi Beach to celebrate Hanukkah, 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:59.200 and 15 people were murdered. So what must it feel 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:03.740 like to be a Jewish Australian today? The relentless protests, 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:09.359 security at children's sporting matches, police outside schools, security at 0:03:09.419 --> 0:03:14.799 community events, security outside synagogues. And for many Jewish Australians, 0:03:15.430 --> 0:03:21.330 These aren't extraordinary precautions anymore. They're normal life. Executive Council 0:03:21.350 --> 0:03:25.310 of Australian Jewry co-chief executive Alex Rivchen summed that up 0:03:25.380 --> 0:03:26.250 on 2GB. 0:03:27.380 --> 0:03:30.560 This is why even on a day like this in 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:32.940 a country like ours, when Jewish people have to meet, 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:37.120 it's under ridiculous levels of police security because that's the 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:38.640 world that we live in, sadly. 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:42.080 But how the hell do we allow that to become 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:46.460 normal in Australia? But the failure didn't stop at protecting 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.200 Jews here at home. Look at what happened to the 0:03:49.260 --> 0:03:54.740 international narrative. Israel saw traditional allies, including Australia, turn their 0:03:54.800 --> 0:04:00.020 pressure towards them. With accusations of genocide, Israel became increasingly 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:05.020 isolated internationally. And Benjamin Netanyahu called out what he described 0:04:05.100 --> 0:04:08.450 as the lies being told about his country in his 0:04:08.550 --> 0:04:10.470 recent address to the United Nations. 0:04:12.170 --> 0:04:18.060 What genocidal regime gives a million polio vaccinations to the 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:24.740 enemy's population. What genocidal regime enables the distribution of two 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:28.020 million tons of food into Gaza? That's a ton for 0:04:28.180 --> 0:04:34.719 every person. Accusing Israel of genocide is the greatest lie 0:04:34.870 --> 0:04:35.490 of the century. 0:04:37.650 --> 0:04:41.029 And here's the extraordinary thing. In the battle for the 0:04:41.089 --> 0:04:45.940 international narrative, Hamas succeeded in shifting the world's attention away 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:51.460 from their atrocities and instead onto Israel's response. But how 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.680 is Israel meant to manage the propaganda war when even 0:04:54.740 --> 0:04:58.620 Australia's foreign minister uses the world stage to direct her 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:00.200 condemnation towards them? 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:03.640 In the West Bank, the situation is worsening. In the 0:05:03.700 --> 0:05:06.729 first six months of this year alone, settler violence has 0:05:06.750 --> 0:05:08.250 driven more than 15,000 children from their homes. 0:05:11.180 --> 0:05:14.200 And just days ago, Britain's Green Party went even further. 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:19.600 It formally adopted a policy declaring Zionism a form of racism. 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:23.860 And it backed the establishment of a single democratic state 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:29.050 across historic Palestine, rather than Israel and a Palestinian state 0:05:29.210 --> 0:05:33.310 existing side by side. So think about where this conversation 0:05:33.490 --> 0:05:37.610 has ended up. A mainstream British political party has adopted 0:05:37.690 --> 0:05:42.400 a policy declaring the ideology behind the existence of the 0:05:42.460 --> 0:05:44.180 Jewish state racist. 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:48.430 It's not acceptable in my view and in the view 0:05:48.470 --> 0:05:50.230 of a lot of other people here in the UK. 0:05:50.470 --> 0:05:53.470 It's shocking, you know, what's actually, I think this has 0:05:53.529 --> 0:05:57.930 made the Green Party into an explicitly anti-Jewish party because 0:05:57.950 --> 0:06:00.300 all that Zionism means is the right of the Jewish 0:06:00.339 --> 0:06:03.140 people to their own homeland. It just means Jewish sovereignty, 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:06.980 Jewish self-determination. And if you're a political party that defines 0:06:07.020 --> 0:06:10.779 yourself against one form of sovereignty, no other, just the 0:06:10.820 --> 0:06:13.539 Jewish one, that makes you racist in my view. You're 0:06:13.620 --> 0:06:18.040 singling out the Jewish people and Jewish nationhood for demonisation. 0:06:18.060 --> 0:06:23.770 And while Israel became the focus of global condemnation, Jews 0:06:23.810 --> 0:06:27.490 were paying the price. In 2025, across seven of the 0:06:27.550 --> 0:06:34.089 world's largest Jewish diasporas, more than 23,000 anti-Semitic incidents were recorded. 0:06:34.740 --> 0:06:37.960 It was the deadliest year for anti-Semitic violence in more 0:06:37.980 --> 0:06:42.500 than three decades. And in the US, a 2025 FBI 0:06:42.540 --> 0:06:46.359 report revealed that nearly two thirds of all religious based 0:06:46.420 --> 0:06:50.870 hate crimes were directed at Jews. And what this shows 0:06:51.390 --> 0:06:57.130 is anti-Semitism isn't a temporary surge. It's a sustained global crisis. 0:06:58.110 --> 0:07:00.010 And that brings me to what we saw on our 0:07:00.050 --> 0:07:05.800 streets today and currently right now. Protests in Sydney, Wollongong 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:10.080 and Melbourne. Just listen to the words used by the organisers. 0:07:10.730 --> 0:07:14.850 Stand with the resistance in Palestine. Don't let Israel steal 0:07:14.890 --> 0:07:20.250 the date. But I'm sorry, Israel didn't steal October 7. 0:07:20.250 --> 0:07:24.650 Hamas did. And to me, what we saw today wasn't 0:07:24.850 --> 0:07:30.660 about mourning Palestinians. It was deliberately provocative. And Alex Rivchen 0:07:31.020 --> 0:07:32.060 didn't mince his words. 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:35.720 They do it on this day because they choose to 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:39.120 do it. They want to do it. They relish inflicting 0:07:39.140 --> 0:07:41.870 trauma and pain on their fellow Australians. They get a 0:07:41.970 --> 0:07:44.510 sick thrill out of it. These are the same people who, 0:07:44.690 --> 0:07:48.150 as October 7 was unfolding, and the good and decent 0:07:48.190 --> 0:07:51.910 were mortified and shocked by what they were seeing. These 0:07:51.950 --> 0:07:55.190 people jumped on social media and celebrated and organized the 0:07:55.230 --> 0:07:58.610 first rally to mark what they called the humiliation of Israel. 0:07:58.650 --> 0:08:01.950 So They want this day. They want to claim this day. 0:08:02.090 --> 0:08:05.200 Any decent person would disassociate from it, but they're doing 0:08:05.220 --> 0:08:08.119 the exact opposite. And in previous years, I was asked 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.120 what message I have for these people, and I appealed 0:08:11.180 --> 0:08:13.100 to their sense of shame and their sense of empathy 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:15.880 and humanity, and I realized they have none of those things. 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.580 So if people want to go off and do that 0:08:18.780 --> 0:08:22.060 and celebrate this day and hold anti-Israel protests on the 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:25.140 day that 1,200 Israelis were slaughtered and 250 were dragged 0:08:25.170 --> 0:08:27.790 off to captivity, let them be exposed and let them 0:08:27.810 --> 0:08:28.530 be damned for it. 0:08:29.970 --> 0:08:34.290 And organisers were urged to choose another date. And they didn't. 0:08:35.170 --> 0:08:39.000 And that choice matters. New South Wales opposition leader Kelly 0:08:39.020 --> 0:08:46.500 Sloan also condemned today's protests. Looking away is not an option. 0:08:46.660 --> 0:08:49.710 And on this day, can I just say shame on 0:08:49.750 --> 0:08:53.349 you to the people who held protests on this day. 0:08:53.270 --> 0:08:59.030 Of all days. Ms Sloan is right. It is shameful. 0:08:59.610 --> 0:09:04.550 There are 364 other days to protest. October 7 belongs 0:09:04.610 --> 0:09:07.890 to the victims of October 7. And if we continue 0:09:07.910 --> 0:09:12.120 to excuse hatred, normalise intimidation and look the other way, 0:09:12.860 --> 0:09:16.620 we should be deeply concerned about the country we are. 0:09:21.460 --> 0:09:25.660 More unintended consequences tonight from a government that doesn't understand 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.990 how business works. The government wanted the headline, Ban credit 0:09:30.010 --> 0:09:32.950 card surcharges and save consumers money. 0:09:32.970 --> 0:09:37.150 Every time you tap, those little surcharges add up. Right now, 0:09:37.210 --> 0:09:42.040 they're costing Aussies $ 1. 6 billion each and every year. But 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:45.840 from today, they're banned, saving you money every time you tap. 0:09:45.860 --> 0:09:48.660 So whether you're at the supermarket paying bills or buying 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:50.860 a cup of coffee, the price you see is the. 0:09:50.820 --> 0:09:51.569 Price you pay. 0:09:53.290 --> 0:09:57.579 But here's the problem. They haven't made the card transactions free. 0:09:58.110 --> 0:10:01.449 They've just decided businesses should wear the cost instead of 0:10:01.510 --> 0:10:04.340 taking up the fight with the bank and payment providers. 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:08.979 And now the cracks are really showing. The ATO will 0:10:09.020 --> 0:10:12.760 stop accepting credit card payments from November 30. They say 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:16.200 they can't afford to absorb the merchant fees. You couldn't 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:20.110 make this up. But the backlash is now so serious, 0:10:20.250 --> 0:10:24.720 the ATO Deputy Commissioner for Small Business, Rowan Fox, was 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.200 forced to chair a meeting today with more than 20 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:31.600 small business representatives. But one attendee in the meeting has 0:10:31.660 --> 0:10:35.460 spoken with the Daily Telegraph and said the ATO was 0:10:35.540 --> 0:10:39.820 completely unwilling to move on the decision and hypersensitive about 0:10:39.860 --> 0:10:44.079 the way they've buggered up the change. While another said, 0:10:44.780 --> 0:10:47.569 we basically got nowhere and there are a lot of 0:10:47.590 --> 0:10:52.470 bleep off people. We need Treasurer Jim Chalmers or the 0:10:52.530 --> 0:10:57.309 Finance Minister to sort these guys out. Now, Deputy Leader 0:10:57.610 --> 0:11:00.880 Jane Hume said the ATO should have already met with 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:03.440 small businesses before announcing these changes. 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.250 I would have thought that this perhaps would have happened 0:11:07.730 --> 0:11:10.949 before the announcement was made, before the decision was made. 0:11:10.970 --> 0:11:14.010 I think that that speaks volumes of what the priorities 0:11:14.050 --> 0:11:14.590 of government are. 0:11:16.470 --> 0:11:21.500 But today's meeting exposed another serious problem. Small businesses already 0:11:21.540 --> 0:11:25.340 have payment plans in place with the ATO that allows 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:29.240 them to repay their tax debts by credit card. And 0:11:29.300 --> 0:11:32.830 now with the ATO refusing to accept credit cards, these 0:11:32.890 --> 0:11:36.270 businesses are now forced to find another way to meet 0:11:36.309 --> 0:11:41.620 repayments or potentially risk defaulting on their payment plans. So 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:45.400 businesses that did the right thing, negotiated a repayment plan, 0:11:45.820 --> 0:11:50.090 now have the rules changed underneath them. And the consequences 0:11:50.500 --> 0:11:54.570 also now flow onto renters. Macquarie Bank ended credit card 0:11:54.590 --> 0:11:58.090 payments through its DEF system, a platform many Australians use 0:11:58.110 --> 0:12:00.990 to pay their rent. And Macquarie itself said there was 0:12:01.030 --> 0:12:05.060 no like-for-like alternative for customers who rely on credit to 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:09.819 make those payments. Then came the schools. Some private schools 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.199 have announced that fees will no longer be able to 0:12:12.220 --> 0:12:14.960 be paid by credit card. And credit cards are the 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:19.070 second most common way that parents pay school expenses, with 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.929 a third of families relying on them at some point. 0:12:22.950 --> 0:12:26.569 Last night, a small business owner contacted me and said 0:12:26.650 --> 0:12:30.130 Westfield will no longer accept their rental payments by credit card. 0:12:30.890 --> 0:12:34.050 Do we see the seriousness of what these changes have done? 0:12:34.970 --> 0:12:38.820 This is what happens when policy is announced Without understanding 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.140 how people and businesses actually manage their money in the 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:46.700 real world, the government wanted to eliminate a surcharge. And 0:12:46.740 --> 0:12:50.849 for a small business already operating on wafer-thin margins, it 0:12:50.890 --> 0:12:55.010 could be the difference between making payroll and not. Because 0:12:55.050 --> 0:13:04.410 cash flow isn't an accounting technicality, it's survival. Well, let's 0:13:04.450 --> 0:13:07.850 head to Canberra now for tonight's political headlines with political 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:09.069 reporter Cam Redden. 0:13:10.260 --> 0:13:13.440 Good evening. The High Court has delivered a significant judgment, 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.620 the first of its kind relating to the consideration of 0:13:16.700 --> 0:13:19.360 greenhouse gas emissions for fossil fuel projects. 0:13:19.660 --> 0:13:22.280 Now this seems to be a novel decision from the 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:23.880 High Court and it will take a little bit of 0:13:23.900 --> 0:13:25.790 time to understand its implications. 0:13:26.030 --> 0:13:29.110 The court ruled on Wednesday that the NSW Planning Commission 0:13:29.150 --> 0:13:31.790 had made an error in approving the expansion of a 0:13:31.850 --> 0:13:35.600 Hunter Valley coal mine operated by Mack Energy. The error, 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:39.060 they say, was placing inadequate conditions on the project to 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.590 consider what's known as Scope 3 emissions, that is, emissions 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:47.030 produced from Australian coal that's exported and burned overseas. As 0:13:47.070 --> 0:13:51.010 a result, the expansion cannot proceed unless Mack Energy starts 0:13:51.110 --> 0:13:53.170 its application process from scratch. 0:13:53.510 --> 0:13:54.870 I mean, what is going to be next? 0:13:54.970 --> 0:13:57.410 Is the High Court or any court of Australia going 0:13:57.429 --> 0:14:00.590 to shut down our entire mining industry? The Coalition is 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:04.610 ruling out further carve-outs for in-demand sectors as it promises 0:14:04.690 --> 0:14:07.630 the biggest slash to migration in Australian history. 0:14:07.950 --> 0:14:10.670 Every time you provide carve-outs, there are people in this 0:14:10.730 --> 0:14:13.690 country who've made a business model out of gaming systems. 0:14:13.750 --> 0:14:16.090 Well, sure, but you've got control of that, don't you, Jono? 0:14:16.170 --> 0:14:18.030 I mean, you could say if you were on the 0:14:18.090 --> 0:14:20.830 skills list and you have studied that explicitly, we're going 0:14:20.850 --> 0:14:21.710 to give you a carve-out. 0:14:22.050 --> 0:14:24.950 I do not accept that this is going to somehow 0:14:25.030 --> 0:14:26.310 cause a skills crisis. 0:14:26.770 --> 0:14:27.750 Cameron Redden, News 24, Canberra. 0:14:31.210 --> 0:14:34.130 Well, for more now on that dramatic decline for Labor 0:14:34.310 --> 0:14:37.100 and a better understanding of exactly what's led to it, 0:14:37.530 --> 0:14:40.229 let's bring in our Wednesday panel, Senior Fellow at the 0:14:40.290 --> 0:14:44.300 Menzies Research Institute, Nick Cater, and Head of Advocacy at 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:49.300 Women's Forum Australia, Stephanie Bastian. Welcome to you both. Well, Nick, 0:14:49.580 --> 0:14:54.470 let's go through these numbers. Labor has dropped 9.6% since 0:14:54.730 --> 0:14:59.390 the election. That's nearly 1.5 million Australians who will no 0:14:59.450 --> 0:15:01.930 longer put a one next to Labor as it stands. 0:15:02.630 --> 0:15:04.760 Talk us through what you think some of the key 0:15:04.780 --> 0:15:08.300 drivers are here, because I feel like there's a lot 0:15:08.340 --> 0:15:10.240 of things to pick at here, but what for you 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:11.200 is the driving force? 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:15.880 Well, I think they're clearly losing votes to One Nation principally. 0:15:16.210 --> 0:15:18.400 And that remains, I think, the case that this is 0:15:18.450 --> 0:15:22.330 over immigration. Energy prices, of course, a big one. General 0:15:23.910 --> 0:15:26.770 running of the economy and the effect of these broken 0:15:26.850 --> 0:15:31.930 promises on property investors, largely mum and dad investors who 0:15:31.990 --> 0:15:34.930 invest for their retirement. So these are the people that 0:15:34.970 --> 0:15:36.770 are moving to One Nation. But I think what we're 0:15:36.790 --> 0:15:40.820 seeing now is a movement of Labour voters to the 0:15:40.860 --> 0:15:44.340 Greens with the new leader, David Shoebridge, who made that 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:48.080 explicit appeal. He said he wanted to become the default 0:15:48.140 --> 0:15:53.800 party of the centre left. Of course, anybody on the 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:56.060 left of the Labour Party will be tempted to move 0:15:56.140 --> 0:15:58.820 over to the purer party. So this is a terrible, 0:15:58.980 --> 0:16:02.400 terrible situation for Labour to find itself in, attacked at 0:16:02.470 --> 0:16:05.330 both ends. If it moves to one constituency, it loses 0:16:05.370 --> 0:16:06.570 the other and vice versa. 0:16:07.980 --> 0:16:10.870 You know, Stephanie, there's so much commentary around how it's 0:16:10.900 --> 0:16:13.490 so dire for the coalition at the moment. They're sitting 0:16:13.530 --> 0:16:17.310 there at 21%. But Labor, they really need to be 0:16:17.410 --> 0:16:19.930 looking at their numbers as well because they're in a 0:16:20.370 --> 0:16:22.950 world of pain. What do you think they need to 0:16:23.010 --> 0:16:25.480 be doing to start clawing some of these voters back 0:16:25.500 --> 0:16:28.120 and stopping them from going over to the Greens or 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:28.660 One Nation? 0:16:30.090 --> 0:16:32.270 Look, you know, Jamie, I'm not sure if it's possible. 0:16:32.690 --> 0:16:35.110 Labor used to be the party of the worker. Now 0:16:35.130 --> 0:16:37.340 they're the party of the elites. You look at climate change, 0:16:37.380 --> 0:16:40.420 for example. They're bought into that hook, line and sinker. 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.560 Yet people in Labor held seats haven't had, you know, 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:45.940 I know of people who haven't had peeing this winter 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:49.400 because they're still paying off last year's electricity bill. There 0:16:49.450 --> 0:16:51.770 are mums and dads on two income topping up their 0:16:51.790 --> 0:16:54.990 pantry at food bank. Labor is so out of touch. 0:16:55.500 --> 0:16:58.729 But what is going on in these communities? I mean, sport, 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.250 another issue. I've spoken to so many parents in the 0:17:01.290 --> 0:17:04.629 last week where their girls are being at risk of 0:17:04.690 --> 0:17:07.750 being injured by male players or they're losing their spots 0:17:07.770 --> 0:17:11.390 to male players in sport. We obviously had the big judgment, 0:17:12.109 --> 0:17:15.500 the high court refused to overturn or have a hearing 0:17:15.540 --> 0:17:18.730 for Sal Grover's case. And so now we have a 0:17:18.770 --> 0:17:21.350 situation where girls do not have the legal right to 0:17:21.430 --> 0:17:23.780 single sex sports and spaces and they don't want to 0:17:23.820 --> 0:17:25.939 deal with this. They are so out of touch. They 0:17:25.980 --> 0:17:27.980 are locked in with their elite groups and their powerful 0:17:28.020 --> 0:17:31.060 lobby groups and they are ignoring the fact that Australians 0:17:31.100 --> 0:17:33.940 are suffering not only from these social issues but also 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.199 in the economy as well. I don't think they can 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:36.640 fix this. 0:17:38.109 --> 0:17:41.010 Well, let's take a look now at the migration policy 0:17:41.050 --> 0:17:45.219 that was unveiled yesterday by the Coalition. And, Nick, it's 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.080 a real line in the sand moment. You know, we've 0:17:48.100 --> 0:17:50.480 obviously been calling for this policy for a little while. 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:54.410 And Pauline Hansard then today lifted the stakes by releasing 0:17:54.450 --> 0:17:57.710 some modelling showing that her policy will save renters between 0:17:57.710 --> 0:18:02.790 $ 2, 000 and just under $ 4, 500 a year. We now have 0:18:02.810 --> 0:18:07.610 three very clear different choices here. The decision now is 0:18:07.750 --> 0:18:09.820 who's going to be able to prosecute the most and 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.540 get the cut through, and ultimately who voters will back. 0:18:14.740 --> 0:18:18.080 Yeah, I think the Coalition's policy seems to me to 0:18:18.540 --> 0:18:21.389 hit the ball straight down the middle of the park 0:18:21.450 --> 0:18:24.920 and get this right. They're focusing on skilled workers. They're 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:27.820 focusing on people who will be net contributors to the 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:32.540 Australian economy and will therefore be net taxpayers to the 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.700 Australian economy and will have a minimal effect actually on 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:38.400 the economic outlook. But we have never had a guest 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:42.850 worker policy in this country, not since 1788. We've always 0:18:43.109 --> 0:18:46.570 emphasised skill migration. And what we have now is a 0:18:46.609 --> 0:18:49.170 lot of people coming in for lower skilled jobs, filling 0:18:49.230 --> 0:18:51.489 up those kind of jobs. That is not the way 0:18:51.530 --> 0:18:53.669 we've run immigration up to now. And if we go 0:18:53.710 --> 0:18:55.570 down that path, we end up where we are with 0:18:55.630 --> 0:19:01.530 far too many migrants. I think that the One Nation's modelling, well, broadly, 0:19:01.650 --> 0:19:04.490 you'd think it's correct. If you reduce migration, you will 0:19:04.580 --> 0:19:07.660 reduce rental prices. But I wouldn't be putting too much 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:11.220 store on those numbers. I see they've modelled those in-house, 0:19:11.260 --> 0:19:14.100 as it were. So I'd like to see how they 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:16.140 got to those figures, because I don't think we should 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.660 put any great faith in the accuracy of those. 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:23.960 Well, Steph, we do have Senator Nampochimpa Price coming on shortly, 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:26.700 but the Coalition has said that they're going to cut 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:30.820 it down to 100,000 for two years. And there has 0:19:30.859 --> 0:19:33.680 been criticism regarding the skilled visa holders having to leave 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.430 the country and then reapply. Do you think the Coalition 0:19:37.790 --> 0:19:40.330 should create some carve out so that the industries that 0:19:40.369 --> 0:19:43.230 we really need here aren't leaving and then having to 0:19:43.290 --> 0:19:43.730 come back? 0:19:45.990 --> 0:19:48.840 Look, I think any immigration policy needs to be seamless 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.390 in how it's executed. That is certainly something that they 0:19:52.430 --> 0:19:54.780 should consider. If there are issues with people having to 0:19:54.859 --> 0:19:57.490 come and go, it then becomes very messy and it 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.639 becomes a message that they can't sell very well. I 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:04.100 think what the Coalition will have to grapple with, though, 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:06.359 is that it's very obvious that One Nation's led the 0:20:06.380 --> 0:20:09.129 debate on immigration and they're well and truly committed behind 0:20:09.150 --> 0:20:13.690 the eight ball in delivering something tangible to voters. But 0:20:13.970 --> 0:20:16.830 what they need to do is they need to get 0:20:16.850 --> 0:20:19.630 their backbench in line because you have, you know, for example, 0:20:19.770 --> 0:20:23.740 Andrew McLaughlin and Paul Scar and these other Liberals leaking 0:20:23.940 --> 0:20:27.860 and briefing outlets like The Guardian when Angus Taylor does 0:20:27.900 --> 0:20:30.380 come forward with an immigration policy. So I think the 0:20:30.420 --> 0:20:32.399 public then lose faith that they're actually going to be 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:34.180 able to deliver on this. 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:34.260 So. 0:20:35.869 --> 0:20:39.810 In terms of the coalition being able to present something 0:20:39.970 --> 0:20:41.470 that the public are going to have faith in, they're 0:20:41.490 --> 0:20:43.430 going to have to really clean up their back room. 0:20:45.390 --> 0:20:50.570 Nick, today marks the third anniversary of the horrific attacks 0:20:50.910 --> 0:20:56.610 in Israel. Yet protesters have picked today to hold vigils 0:20:56.790 --> 0:21:00.689 for Gaza. Israel's ambassador to Australia is amongst those that 0:21:00.750 --> 0:21:04.450 are fiercely condemning these protests. There's one right now that's 0:21:04.470 --> 0:21:09.070 happening in Sydney. What do you make of organisers choosing 0:21:09.210 --> 0:21:11.920 today of all days to be out protesting? 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:15.440 These are sick fanatics. That's all I can say about them. 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:18.639 I mean, we remember the shock of October 7th and 0:21:18.660 --> 0:21:21.140 we know why we were shocked because of the terrible... 0:21:21.450 --> 0:21:25.629 events that happened in Israel by Hamas, by Palestinians, at 0:21:25.670 --> 0:21:29.669 the hands of Palestinians, brutal, sadistic, you know, well, we 0:21:29.710 --> 0:21:32.190 know what they were. And to be out there trying 0:21:32.210 --> 0:21:35.170 to claim this day as somehow sort of a liberation 0:21:35.210 --> 0:21:37.930 day for Palestine or whatever else they're carrying on with. 0:21:38.350 --> 0:21:41.369 These people have got no sensitivity. They've got no knowledge 0:21:41.410 --> 0:21:44.590 of history, no understanding of the complexity of the situation 0:21:44.609 --> 0:21:47.449 in the Middle East. And quite frankly, I think they 0:21:47.490 --> 0:21:50.209 should just pack up their banners and go home and 0:21:50.250 --> 0:21:52.369 leave the streets for people who just want to observe 0:21:52.410 --> 0:21:56.010 this peacefully and for people that are attending services this 0:21:56.109 --> 0:21:58.679 evening in memory of those terrible events. 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:03.240 And Steph, what are your thoughts about what you're seeing? 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:05.899 We have got some live vision playing now for our 0:22:05.940 --> 0:22:10.290 viewers at home. But it's a shameful, shameful day, I think, 0:22:10.390 --> 0:22:13.610 that we've got protesters who decide today is the day 0:22:13.650 --> 0:22:14.290 to be out there. 0:22:15.790 --> 0:22:18.270 Oh, absolutely. I think Nick summed it up perfectly. But 0:22:18.369 --> 0:22:20.770 I mean, we all saw what happened on October 7th. 0:22:21.170 --> 0:22:25.090 Over a thousand people murdered, hundreds taken hostage, rape used 0:22:25.130 --> 0:22:27.389 as a weapon of war against women. It was an 0:22:27.770 --> 0:22:32.169 absolute travesty what happened. And these people have hijacked the 0:22:32.190 --> 0:22:36.280 capital cities week after week for years since this has happened. 0:22:36.430 --> 0:22:39.150 And to hijack today of all days while a community, 0:22:39.190 --> 0:22:42.180 the Jewish community, is still grieving is just a disgrace. 0:22:43.540 --> 0:22:46.300 It really is, and we'll keep everyone at home up 0:22:46.340 --> 0:22:49.820 to date on those protests. Steph and Nick, thank you 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:53.500 so much for your time tonight. All right, well, back 0:22:53.580 --> 0:22:57.320 to the Coalition's migration policy that was unveiled by Angus 0:22:57.340 --> 0:23:00.919 Taylor yesterday, and there were promises to offer a pathway 0:23:01.060 --> 0:23:03.900 out of the record intake and the pressure on housing 0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:07.600 and households. Here to discuss it is Shadow Minister of 0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:14.060 Skills and Training, Jacinta Nampochimpa-Price. Senator, welcome. It was definitely 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:17.500 a long time coming, but we have got those numbers 0:23:17.580 --> 0:23:20.580 that has been released by your team. One of those, 0:23:20.619 --> 0:23:23.900 it's the pledge to allow 100,000 for the first two 0:23:23.980 --> 0:23:28.550 years and then progressively increase the intake after that. There's 0:23:28.570 --> 0:23:31.109 been some business groups that have warned the cuts could 0:23:31.130 --> 0:23:35.490 potentially worsen some workforce shortages, in particular the aged care 0:23:35.690 --> 0:23:38.950 and essential sectors. What do you make about some of 0:23:38.970 --> 0:23:39.750 those criticism? 0:23:41.650 --> 0:23:45.240 Yeah, look, The Coalition, we have worked very hard because 0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:47.429 what we want to do is ensure that we are 0:23:47.470 --> 0:23:51.070 delivering the biggest cut in immigration in our country's history 0:23:51.250 --> 0:23:53.870 and off the back of the fact that we have 0:23:53.890 --> 0:23:57.470 dealt with immigration as the Coalition in government previously very 0:23:57.510 --> 0:24:00.760 successfully and we want to continue that success going forward. 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:05.900 So what we want to do is ensure that we are... 0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:09.619 What we've set out to do in this particular policy 0:24:09.780 --> 0:24:13.369 is address those problems those concerns in particular in terms 0:24:13.410 --> 0:24:16.810 of workforce shortages around the country, which we have listened 0:24:16.830 --> 0:24:20.830 to with small business right around the nation. So it's 0:24:20.890 --> 0:24:25.280 about strengthening our economy, delivering in terms of the workforce 0:24:25.490 --> 0:24:29.310