1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: on which this podcast was produced, the Galligle people of 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: the orination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present. 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: This episode contains discussion of suicide. If this raises any 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: issues for you, support is available through the links and 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: phone numbers in the show notes. 7 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 2: It's twenty twenty two and Julie Goodwin's phone is ringing. 8 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,639 Speaker 2: It's the producer of Master Chef inviting Julie to come 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 2: back for the Fans and Favorites season, thirteen years after 10 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: winning the first Australian season. Julie is utterly terrified at 11 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 2: the thought of returning to where it all began. You 12 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 2: are first Master Chef. This show completely changed her life. 13 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 2: Her win catapulted her into the spotlight and with it 14 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 2: came book deals, a cooking school, radio show and hosting gigs. 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 2: But in twenty twenty everything came to a grinding holt. 16 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 2: Julie couldn't cope with the pressure any longer and didn't 17 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 2: want to be here anymore. Her despair reached crisis point, 18 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 2: resulting in a five week stay in a mental health facility. 19 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 2: Two years on, she's in a much better place. Despite 20 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 2: being terrified, she says yes to the opportunity, a far 21 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 2: cry from the woman who couldn't step into a kitchen 22 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 2: just a couple of years prior. Julie is back in 23 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: the pressure cooker. I'm at Middleton and this is Headgame today. 24 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 2: Julie Goodwin on the conversation that kept her alive. Julie, 25 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 2: we first met on Dancing with the stuff. 26 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 3: We are dancing buddies, aren't we. 27 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: We are dancing buddies, and we got on really well. 28 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 2: I really enjoyed your journey. I really enjoyed your your presence, 29 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 2: your aura, your energy. Have you always been like that? 30 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 3: Oh god, I don't know. I don't know, I've always 31 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 3: I don't know. I just love new experiences and getting 32 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 3: to sort of chuck myself into something completely different. And 33 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 3: always the best part of those things is the people 34 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 3: that you meet, isn't it, And what you get to 35 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: do with the people that you meet. And you know, 36 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 3: I really loved I really loved seeing you sort of 37 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 3: progress through that competition. But your acknowledgement, because obviously such 38 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 3: a sort of physical beast specimen, your acknowledgement of the 39 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 3: dancers and how fit they are, and what what a 40 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 3: different kind of discipline ities and that you can you 41 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 3: can be really at the top of your game in 42 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 3: one area and still have no dear about other other things, 43 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 3: and you know, things you're unfamiliar with. It was so interesting. 44 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I sort of swapped out my army boots for 45 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: dancing shoes, and you swapped out your spatulate hand for 46 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 2: dancing shoes. Let's go right back before we get into 47 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 2: the nitty griitty of master chef and your life and 48 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 2: you know where you are today, Let's go back to 49 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 2: how where it all started as a youngster growing up? 50 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 2: How did life look for you? 51 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 3: I grew up in the suburbs of Sydney, blue collar family, 52 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 3: sort of fairly fairly normal, I would say, you know, 53 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 3: Mum and dad both had a working ethic. I was 54 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 3: raised by my stepdad, who is still my dad. Like 55 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 3: mum and dad had been married for coming on fifty 56 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 3: years now, and so my biological father left when I 57 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 3: was very young and what age just I was three? 58 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: Oh wow, do you remember your biological father? 59 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 3: I do? 60 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 2: You do? 61 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 3: I have? It was like one of my earliest memories as. 62 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: Well, your early memory. 63 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 3: The first thing I can attribute to that time in 64 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 3: my life was the memory where he had left. Mum 65 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 3: was pregnant when he left, and he popped back to 66 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 3: collect some of his things, and I was so excited 67 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 3: to see him because I hadn't seen him for ages. 68 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 3: You know, little kids get excited. And Mum said, I 69 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 3: must have been so excited. I need to go to 70 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 3: the bathroom. And when I came back, he had gone again. 71 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 3: And yeah, and I didn't see him again until I was, oh, gosh, 72 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 3: coming out for fourteen fifteen years old. 73 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 2: Wow, So that memory was it was a positive one 74 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 2: in the excitement, but ultially a super negative one because 75 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 2: when you came back, he'd obviously popped in, grabbed his 76 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 2: stuff and left. 77 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't think he wanted to do the goodbye. 78 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 3: I don't think he wanted to tell me that it 79 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 3: was goodbye. 80 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 2: And for that to be one of your first memories 81 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 2: as well, so obviously in plant as he does, right 82 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 2: as it does. How did that affect you sort of 83 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 2: moving forward with your let's say, your your your new father, 84 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 2: your your stepfather, and your mom did was there any 85 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: sort of hurdles there where there was resentment or anything 86 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 2: like that or age. I suppose you're quite multiple, aren't you. 87 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 3: Totally? And when my stepdad dad came on the scene, 88 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 3: I just loved him and he loved us, and so 89 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 3: he like he just stepped into that role and has 90 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 3: maintained that role. He took me to band practice, and he, 91 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 3: you know, loved my mom and he we're a family, 92 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 3: you know, So I'm I adore him and he adores us. 93 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 3: So you know, I don't feel like I missed out 94 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 3: on having a father figure in my life because they 95 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 3: got married when I was six, So I had this 96 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 3: beautiful male role model in my life. But now what 97 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 3: I've just been unpacking through all this psychological journey I've 98 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 3: been on for one of a better word, is that 99 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 3: that early leaving it does shape how you interact with 100 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 3: the world, and so my persona And when you ask 101 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 3: if I've always been like that, I guess what I've 102 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 3: learned is that that always trying to be really shiny, 103 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 3: do really well at school, make everybody happy, never let 104 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 3: anybody down, all of that really comes from a terror 105 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 3: of being left. 106 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 2: Wow, And that makes complete sense because when that gets 107 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 2: snatched away from you, I suppose it sort of lived 108 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: as you you know, it's like, what did I do 109 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 2: wrong or how could I do things better to make 110 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:41,799 Speaker 2: sure that this doesn't happen again? 111 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 3: Absolutely, yep, absolutely, And you know I didn't know until 112 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 3: recently how much that shapes you, you know, because I've 113 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 3: always thought, you know. 114 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 2: And when you say recently recently as in the last 115 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 2: couple of years, or recently as in your adulthood, past 116 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 2: past four years, past four years, yep, Wow, when did 117 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: that sort of trigger and when did that sort of 118 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 2: click in? 119 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 3: Well, it clicked in when I started having pretty intensive 120 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 3: therapy for a complete mental breakdown. So that's all been unpacked, 121 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 3: all that and a bunch of other stuff that happened. 122 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:19,119 Speaker 3: And yeah, it's traumas that happened in childhood that aren't 123 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 3: acknowledged or resolved. They don't go away very similar they do, 124 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 3: and you can paper over the cracks all your life, 125 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 3: but it'll find a way out. And so that was 126 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 3: all part of the cumulative process towards completely falling apart. 127 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: Did that affect your school where you're a good kid, 128 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 2: were your cheeky kid, were your naughty kid? 129 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 3: Was super good? 130 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 2: You're super good, super good? Yeah? 131 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 3: I believe that that sort of had an impact on it, 132 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 3: so to be hard to swallow. You know. It's like, well, 133 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 3: I worked really hard at school. I did well at school. 134 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 3: I was a real goodie two shoes. I would have 135 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 3: been of pain in you. 136 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 2: You know. 137 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 3: I was the school captain at Hornsby Girls High School. Like, 138 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 3: achieving was really important to me, and it upset me 139 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 3: to find out that that might be because I was 140 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 3: frightened of being abandoned. That's how I learned that that's 141 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 3: how you make people happy with you. And if you 142 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 3: make people happy with you, they stick around. So I go, well, 143 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 3: hang on a minute, if I'm just a set of reactions, 144 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 3: who am I? Who am I? So you've got to 145 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 3: sort of tease out what's your natural state and what 146 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 3: came about because of what happened to you and all 147 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 3: that sort of stuff. So it's all a bit of 148 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 3: a tangleballer wall. 149 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 2: Do you come from a big family or you an 150 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 2: only child? No? 151 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,079 Speaker 3: So I have a little sister. She was the one 152 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 3: who was in the oven back when my father left, 153 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 3: and for a while I had a couple of step siblings. 154 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 3: But I was pretty energetic and active, and I a 155 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 3: round a lot, and I loved sport hyper competitive, but 156 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 3: my schooling was more geared towards academic and musical, So 157 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 3: that's sort of where I leaned into study and music, 158 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 3: choir and band and all those hyper cool things. 159 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 2: You were roper goodysues. If you could fit the persona 160 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 2: of a goodye SSU school, it's bad, it's it's in love. 161 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 3: That massive. 162 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 2: Going into sort of your later education, was there any 163 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 2: sort of career that really really excited you? And I'm 164 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 2: obviously going to get into cooking, but before that was 165 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: did you have a have a good idea of what 166 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 2: you wanted to do and were you It sounds like 167 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 2: you were very settled and very structured in your life. 168 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 2: Was there a career path that you decided to take 169 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 2: before obviously you got whisked away onto master chef. Oh? 170 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, When I was at high school, I wanted to 171 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 3: be I was tossing up between criminal law and journalism. 172 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 3: So those were the directions I wanted to hit in. 173 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 3: Those were both you needed, like good marks and all 174 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 3: that sort of thing to do those things. In year eleven, 175 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 3: I had a bit of a thing happened. I had 176 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 3: a memory resurface, a suppress memory from childhood which was 177 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 3: a trauma and that I didn't really know that that 178 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 3: set me off the rails until I sat down to 179 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 3: write my life story in an autobiography and then the 180 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 3: timeline just was there in front of me. 181 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 2: And that was that was that recently that you wrote 182 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 2: your book last year, because you're exactly the same as 183 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 2: myself when I started writing my memoir. You sort of 184 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,719 Speaker 2: go back and because you just go back and you 185 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 2: sort of break down those memories and you go really 186 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 2: into your find a detail of it, you start to 187 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 2: you start to learn so much about yourself. You start 188 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 2: to learn so much about what happened. You start to 189 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 2: rely understand what were the triggers for here, the things 190 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 2: that you never knew that you would do. Unless you 191 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 2: really dig in. It's extraor memoir. 192 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 3: It's extraordinary, isn't it? And I would actually recommend it 193 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 3: to anyone, even if you just write your life out chronologically, 194 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 3: if it's not for publication. The learning in the understanding 195 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 3: that came from that process was quite mind blowing. I 196 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 3: actually needed a bit of therapeutic help through the process 197 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 3: because it was really hard, and I remember I sat 198 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 3: down to write I'm not sure at what point the 199 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 3: wheels fell off these ambitions. But as I'm writing it, 200 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 3: I thought, look when it happened this. The wheels fell 201 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 3: off just after I had this memory resurface, and all 202 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 3: sorts of stuff started to go wrong after that, you know, 203 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 3: that's when everything changed. I was a skinny little kid. 204 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 3: That's when I started to put on weight and eat 205 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,199 Speaker 3: in an unhealthy way. That's all sorts of stuff. 206 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 2: Went wrong from this memory. 207 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 3: And now I know it's I didn't know it then 208 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 3: because I shoved it, shoved it straight back down. I 209 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 3: wanted it, but it you know, it's like trying to 210 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 3: unring a bell, you know. And so from going to 211 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 3: wanting to be a criminal lawyer to a journalist to 212 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 3: I just kind of gave up a little bit, and 213 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 3: so I didn't I knew I wasn't going to get 214 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 3: the marks I wanted. So then I thought, well, I'll 215 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 3: be a teacher, which was lower a lower entry score 216 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 3: into university. And then I went to university. I only 217 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 3: lasted eighteen months at university. I turned into a ghost. 218 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 2: And was it. Do you think that that memory that 219 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 2: you had in year eleven is that you like your exams? 220 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 2: That's quite a critical year. How old. Are you at 221 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 2: that stage? Yeah? 222 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 3: I was sixteen. Yeah, when the memory came back, I 223 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 3: had completely suppressed it and then I remembered it, and 224 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 3: it was not a welcome memory, and it wasn't there 225 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 3: wasn't a big light bulb moment. It was almost like 226 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 3: it was like a book on a bookshelf that I 227 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 3: hadn't looked at for a really long time. It had 228 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 3: always been there, but on this one particular day, I 229 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 3: just took the book out and looked at it and went, oh, oh, 230 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 3: that's right, there's this book on my bookshelf. And as 231 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 3: a sixteen I didn't know what to do with it. 232 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 3: So I stuck it back on the shelf and I 233 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 3: put my back against it, and I braced my legs 234 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 3: against it, and I held it there as hard as 235 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:09,839 Speaker 3: I could. I didn't want to know. I didn't want 236 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 3: to know that book was there. That's that's as n 237 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 3: close as I can get to describing what happened. 238 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great analogy, and that's what we do, 239 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 2: you know, especially when we can't face it, and it's 240 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 2: something that did you have it? Did you have a 241 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 2: support network that you could have spoken to or I 242 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 2: suppose at sixteen. You don't. It's a case of you do, 243 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 2: don't you shove it away. 244 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:35,199 Speaker 3: It was the nineteen eighties, exactly. It was the nineteen eighties, 245 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 3: and it just wasn't spoken about enough. So it wasn't 246 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 3: spoken about, you know, and that led to actually in 247 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 3: year twelve. And see again, this is stuff I hadn't 248 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 3: thought about for years until my world fell apart nearly 249 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 3: five years ago. Now I hadn't thought about any of this, 250 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 3: but that that was I had an attempt on my 251 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 3: own life in year twelve. 252 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 2: So the domino effect of it. Was it the domino 253 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 2: effect of this memory, yep, and you. 254 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 3: But I didn't know that's why I did that, and 255 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 3: didn't know it until I wrote it all down. I went, 256 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 3: oh my god, that's why that happened. Oh my god, 257 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 3: that's why that happened. I now know that when I 258 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 3: went to university, I was severely depressed. I would go 259 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 3: whole days without speaking to anybody. I didn't have friends, 260 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 3: and went from being, you know, the school captain of 261 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 3: my high school and involved in every extracurricular group you 262 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 3: could think of, and in this leadership role to go 263 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 3: to university where I would not speak for whole days 264 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 3: at a time. 265 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 2: You're well just flipped upside down ultimately. 266 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 3: Completely, and I just never knew why until recently. Yeah. Yeah, 267 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 3: So it was a big, big thing to come to 268 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 3: terms with. 269 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: And you mentioned just in year twelve there that you 270 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 2: that you wanted to take to take your life. Was 271 00:14:54,600 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 2: that planned? Did it sort of escalate into right, going 272 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 2: to plan this, so I'm going to do it? Or 273 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 2: was it just right? In this situation, I don't want 274 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 2: to be you anymore. 275 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 3: There was so much pressure, And this is why every 276 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 3: year when those exam results come out, I reach out 277 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 3: to everyone I know who's waiting on them, and I say, 278 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 3: this is not the rest of your life. This is 279 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 3: one moment in your life, and it will only determine 280 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 3: what you do next. It will not determine what you 281 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 3: do for the rest of your life. So whatever happens, 282 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 3: don't worry, because I know the despair I felt as 283 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 3: And it was the day before I had a trial 284 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 3: HSC exam and I was left on my own in 285 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 3: the house to study, and I just decided I could 286 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 3: not face that exam the next day, and so that's 287 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 3: what I did. And the response then and again it 288 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 3: was the nineteen eighties. There was no support. It was 289 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 3: there was quite a sort of sneering attitude towards kids 290 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 3: and their cries for attention. So it was decided, and 291 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 3: you know, with all great love to my parents, their 292 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 3: belief was they were doing the best thing for me. 293 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 3: It was kind of decided that we would just keep 294 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 3: it to ourselves because stigma. Because of the stigma, they'll 295 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 3: take the school captaincy away from you. You'll never get 296 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 3: over this. Your reputation will be destroyed, you know. 297 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 2: Into the family as well. 298 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 3: Shame, the shame of it, and so you know, the 299 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 3: hospital can't talk about it because they're bound not to. 300 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 3: And we decided as a family that we would never 301 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 3: to speak of it again. And so I had no 302 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 3: there was no unpacking of that. There was no psychological support. 303 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 3: I'll never forget the social worker who came into the 304 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 3: hospital after a few days I've been in and she says, well, 305 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 3: are you going to do that again? And I said no, 306 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 3: She said all right, then she signed me up. That 307 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 3: was That was the extent of the mental health support 308 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 3: that was available to me. 309 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 2: So after that moment when you decided to take your life, 310 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 2: did the dominoes keep on falling thereafter, or did you 311 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 2: decide to sort of get your life back on track. 312 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 2: How did you manage to do that, because ultimately you 313 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 2: had to do it by yourself. 314 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, like I say, I didn't really the idea 315 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 3: of depression was not a part of our family vernacular. 316 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 3: That's actually people feeling sorry for themselves. That's what that 317 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 3: was defined as people who can't pick themselves up by 318 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 3: their bootstraps and put a good face on it and 319 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 3: all that sort of all that tough talk, you know, 320 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 3: which you know, my parents were raised by people who 321 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 3: went through the war and the depression and all that 322 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 3: sort of stuff, and it just flows on and I 323 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:04,719 Speaker 3: understand it. I completely understand. There are eras where you know, 324 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 3: that's what you have. 325 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 2: To do, or situations that were lasted so long, i e. 326 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 2: The wars that you had to you had no choice. 327 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 3: You would know you can't be talking about depression when 328 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 3: you're in the middle of the battlefield. It's like, let's go. 329 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 3: But you also have to leave the battlefield on the battlefield, 330 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 3: right and bring compassion into other areas of your life. 331 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 3: So I didn't know that that's what was happening, and 332 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 3: I didn't realize that that's what had happened until I 333 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 3: wrote down my story and when the light bulbs were 334 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 3: going on all over the place. I left Ginnie and 335 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 3: I drifted through a few sort of not very important jobs, 336 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 3: and I was trying to find my place in the world. 337 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,919 Speaker 3: I met the boy who I fell in love with 338 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 3: and I'm still married to decades and decades later. So 339 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 3: I really landed on my feet with the right person, 340 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 3: my life partner. And you know, eventually I found my 341 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 3: way into youth work, and that's where I found a 342 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,199 Speaker 3: real affinity. That's what I loved to do. 343 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 2: Oh, youth work helping others. Ultimately, did that give you 344 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 2: a great sense of achievement of purpose? 345 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 3: It can be. I don't know. I think I was 346 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 3: always looking for purposeful things to do. You know, where 347 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 3: I met my not yet husband was in a some 348 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 3: vincent de poor youth group. So we used to go 349 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 3: out and do dawn patrol in King's Cross and handout 350 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 3: sandwiches at three o'clock in the morning and stuff like that. 351 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 3: So I was always looking for purpose. 352 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 2: Home meat sandwiches, Oh. 353 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, we'd pick them up from the Matt Talbot hostel. 354 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 3: Whether our made in dreadful coffee and earns and stuff. 355 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 3: So yeah, youth work really gave me a sense of purpose. 356 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 3: And I ended up at Frank Baxter Juvenile Detention Center 357 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 3: after I got married and moved up the coast. So 358 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 3: I was working up there in detention with those lads. 359 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,120 Speaker 3: And that was thirty years ago now and I'm back 360 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 3: there now. So I'm back there, but I've developed a 361 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 3: cooking course which I go in and teach the boys 362 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 3: how to cook and we sit down. The cooking is 363 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 3: and you wouldn't think you'd hear me say this, but 364 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 3: the cooking is actually secondary in this course. So the 365 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 3: most important thing is the act of doing that together 366 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 3: and then sitting at a table together and having a 367 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 3: family meal. So instead of being served food onto their 368 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 3: plate which they eat and go back to their cell, 369 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 3: we sit at the table. It's all served family style. 370 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 3: So they've got to share, they've got to communicate, you. 371 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 2: Know, to work together. And it's got a problem solve. 372 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, And they've got to look to left and 373 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 3: right and see if everyone's got enough, and they've got 374 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 3: to you know, and there's table rules, family rules, you know. 375 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 3: And I've been the mum, I'm just like, well, you know, 376 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 3: don't go I don't like that. I don't like that. 377 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 3: And I say, well, you know family dinner rules. You 378 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 3: don't have to like it, you don't have to finish it, 379 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 3: but you have to taste it, and you know, so 380 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 3: they're trying new things, and so it's been a beautiful 381 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 3: full circle to actually go back into youth work and 382 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 3: to be able to bring the cooking along with me. 383 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 2: So cooking. Have you always been a sort of a chef? 384 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 2: How did the love for cooking which ultimately changed your 385 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 2: career and changed your path in life? When did that 386 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 2: sort of become serious? When did you know that you 387 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 2: were the chef extra half? 388 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 3: Well, I still don't know about that, but I think 389 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 3: Matt Preston described it really well once during Master Chef. 390 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 3: He said, the greatest cuisines of the world come from 391 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:42,479 Speaker 3: that country's poverty. So you know, you think about patai 392 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 3: in France, Well, let's liver. When you don't figure out 393 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 3: that taste good unless you're really hungry, I'm sorry, So. 394 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 2: Unless you're using everything, every. 395 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 3: Single thing, because there's nothing you can't afford to waste anything. 396 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 3: That's how I started cooking. So I didn't cook a 397 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 3: lot growing up because I'm messy, so Mum didn't let 398 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 3: me messing up the kitchen too badly. But I think 399 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 3: watching the way she cooked and my nan and everything. 400 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 3: When I moved out into my own home, I love 401 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 3: to eat. I'm greedy little person, and so I wanted 402 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 3: to eat nice food. But we had no money. We 403 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 3: had no money. With you once you've got a mortgage 404 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 3: when you're very young. We're only twenty four. If I 405 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:25,719 Speaker 3: wanted to eat nice food, I'd to work out how 406 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 3: to make nice food. And so I learned how to 407 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,199 Speaker 3: cook things that tasted nice with zero budget, like just 408 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 3: a few bits and bobs in the pantry and have 409 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 3: to put them together nicely. And we couldn't afford to 410 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 3: eat out. So if we wanted a special meal, I 411 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 3: had to be able to cook it because we just 412 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 3: couldn't afford it. 413 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 2: And it just wasn't you just grabbed what you try 414 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 2: this with this. I've got a bit of this, let's 415 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 2: not waste it. 416 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, some of that. And sometimes I'd eat something nice 417 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 3: at someone else's house and I'd ask them how they 418 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 3: did it. Back then this is pre internet, you know, 419 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 3: so you couldn't google something, so if you ate something nice, 420 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 3: you had to either work it out by trial and 421 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 3: error find out the recipe from whoever made it. You know, 422 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 3: there were a couple of cooking shows on TV, not 423 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 3: a lot, but I watched what I could when I 424 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,959 Speaker 3: had the time. But it just became a real passion 425 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 3: of me. 426 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 2: So it was an underlying passion that you didn't realize 427 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 2: was a passion until you started doing it, and then 428 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,959 Speaker 2: you became really good at it. Did anyone ever egg you? 429 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 2: Because I know my brother's a great cook, right, and 430 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 2: we always say to them, you should open up a 431 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 2: little care or a little restaurant. Was that ever sort 432 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 2: of mentioned as you were growing up with your cooking. 433 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 3: Kind of not as I was growing up. When I 434 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 3: was a grown up, it was, you know, and I 435 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 3: have my little kids, and their happiness with what I 436 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 3: cooked made me really happy. But you know, and I 437 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 3: always entertained friends, so I always had people over on 438 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 3: the weekend, and I love to cook for people. And 439 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 3: but anytime anyone said, oh, you should do a little 440 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 3: catering business, or you should do parties or whatever, I'd 441 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 3: be like, oh god, no, it's far too much hard work. 442 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 3: I love doing it for joy, but I would never 443 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 3: want to do it for work, you know, until you 444 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 3: know the contestant call came from us today. 445 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 2: Take me back to that moment. Did you apply for it? 446 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 2: How does that happen? 447 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 3: Well? 448 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 2: I loved and what you egged on with people going 449 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 2: you should do masters, the show called Masters. 450 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, it was my best friend that did that, 451 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 3: my best friend Tash. So I've been watching the British 452 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 3: one and I've been telling her all about it. Oh 453 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 3: my god, they made this and they did that. You 454 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 3: should have seen it. And so when there was a 455 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 3: contestant call for Australia, she said, oh, you ought to 456 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 3: try out for it. I'm like, yeah, yeah, that'd be fun. 457 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 3: But I kind of kept putting it off because I 458 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 3: was busy. We had our own it business by that point, 459 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 3: Mick and I and and in the end it was 460 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 3: like the day before applications closed, and she said to me, 461 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 3: if you don't put in that application, you're never allowed 462 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 3: to talk to me about food again. 463 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 2: Got a figure you don't really love cooking? Yah? 464 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah yah yeah yeah yeah. So I did, 465 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 3: and you know, I forgot all about it and a 466 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 3: few months later, I got the phone call just saying 467 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 3: we want you to come in and audition, and I did. 468 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 2: Wow. And at this stage you said you and your 469 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 2: partner had an IT company. Yeah, yep, and the life 470 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 2: was good, life was heading in the right direction. Was 471 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 2: this quite a scary, scary change to go on on 472 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 2: to TV and you know, having to take time out 473 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,239 Speaker 2: of work, time away family, You know, there's a lot 474 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 2: of sacrifice there, right. 475 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, but I didn't even know what it was 476 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 3: going to involve. So I went and did the audition. Yeah, 477 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 3: we were running our own business, three little boys, beautiful life, 478 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,479 Speaker 3: busy life, you know, take them to sport and do 479 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 3: their homework with them, and working in the business in 480 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 3: the daytime. And so going on to I sort of 481 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 3: in my head it was a cooking contest. It wasn't 482 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 3: a TV show, So that flipped pretty quickly. I didn't 483 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 3: know I would have to live out a home to 484 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 3: compete until I was days away from moving into this 485 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 3: other house. I didn't know I'd have my phone taken 486 00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 3: away from me, I wouldn't be able to have my 487 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 3: computer with me, I wouldn't be able to see my family. 488 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 3: You know, I didn't know i'd be restricted to two 489 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 3: phone calls a week. You know, this is sixteen years ago, 490 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 3: so I know label laws are being upheld a bit 491 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 3: better these days. And I think contestant welfare is Contestant 492 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 3: welfare is far more important now than it used to be. 493 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 3: It wasn't a thing back then. It just wasn't now. 494 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 3: And I know, because I've been back now, I know 495 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 3: that it's a much It's number one priority really. So 496 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 3: I didn't know any of that when I signed on. 497 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 3: And if I had known that, it's good that I 498 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 3: didn't know, I wouldn't have applied. I would have said, well, 499 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 3: that would have been fun. But I've got three little boys, 500 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 3: I've got a business. I can't just disappear for what 501 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 3: turned out to be five months. 502 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 2: That's what I say. On says Australia as well. If 503 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 2: I'd known what was never would have done it won 504 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 2: for there. But you so you take on master Chef. 505 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 2: Not only do you take on Master Chef Judy, but 506 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 2: you you know, the nation falls in love with you, live, 507 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 2: you become this mother to everyone and then you go 508 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 2: and win it. What was that feeling like? Were you 509 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 2: ready for the aftermath of being projected? Into the limelight. 510 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 3: No, no one can be ready for that. 511 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 2: That was. 512 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 3: It was such a it was so weird. I mean, 513 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 3: if you sort of start with the premise that we've 514 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 3: been locked away for five months, over five months not 515 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 3: out in public, not really seeing little bits of what 516 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 3: was going on in the newspaper and stuff when we 517 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 3: managed to have time to look at the newspaper and 518 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 3: so forth, but until we got out of that house, 519 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 3: and it was two weeks between the finale being filmed 520 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 3: and it going to air. It's a lot longer now, 521 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 3: but back then it was only two and a half weeks. No, 522 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 3: I had no idea what was waiting for me on 523 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 3: the outside, had no idea, And it was quite surreal. 524 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 3: It was quite surreal. And I'll never forget the day 525 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 3: when I kind of had a feeling of something, something 526 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 3: really quite big and oddest happening here is. I was 527 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 3: walking down the street and I just heard joy and 528 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 3: I turned around and it was a road crew. It 529 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 3: was these big guys in high views. And then you know, 530 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 3: my kids were coming home. My oldest son, God love him, 531 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 3: was coming home from school and he had had this 532 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 3: meticulously kept handwritten list that he showed me, and he said, 533 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 3: these are all the people who want to come over 534 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 3: for dinner, and it's like every person who'd made a 535 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 3: joke to him. There was teachers on the list. I'm 536 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 3: just like Jo, I can't have all those people, and 537 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 3: he's like, oh, but they really want to come. So 538 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 3: it was just it was so surreal. 539 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 2: How did you prepare on the move and how did 540 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 2: you manage on the move or did you manage on 541 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 2: the move? Well, I think we did. 542 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 3: We like to think we do. You know, maybe over 543 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 3: time I could look back and see that I didn't 544 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 3: didn't always make the best decisions. So there was a 545 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 3: lot coming at me fast, a lot of opportunities, a 546 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 3: lot of and like, I want to preface this by 547 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 3: saying that the things that have come out of Master 548 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 3: Chef have been ninety nine point nine percent amazingly positive 549 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 3: and beautiful, and I will never stop being grateful or 550 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 3: pinching myself that that happened, because it's been wonderful. But 551 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 3: there were things that I didn't manage as well as 552 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 3: I should have, And one of those was the decision 553 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 3: making around what to take on and what to not 554 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 3: take on because I had fear and. 555 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 2: You're talking of opportunities here. 556 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, So if I don't take this on board now, 557 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 3: I mean in twelve months time, this could all be over. 558 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 3: I need to make hay while the sunshines. I need 559 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 3: to take it while you can, take it while you can, 560 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 3: and then I I can live out my days in 561 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 3: some kind of peaceful you know, bliss and think, gosh, 562 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 3: wasn't that an interesting time? Well, sixteen years on. 563 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 2: I've had that mindset. 564 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 3: Yes, so you know exactly what I'm saying. So I 565 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 3: took on way too much and you can only do 566 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 3: everything for so often. And again, in the writing of 567 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 3: this book, I look back at my calendar, like my 568 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 3: Outlook calendar from that time, and how the days were 569 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 3: broken down into these tiny little chunks of all the 570 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 3: different deadlines and the recipes and the columns, and the 571 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 3: appearances and the interviews and the travel and all those things. 572 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 3: There was no category for self care, there was no 573 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 3: category for downtime. Family barely featured in that calendar. It 574 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 3: was get from here to there, do this, do that? 575 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 2: That family element. All of a sudden, you know, they 576 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 2: come and it's called a spade. They come second best, 577 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 2: don't they. It's like it's all of a sudden, it's like, 578 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 2: take it was, it's there. Take it was, that this 579 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 2: is going to benefit. 580 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 3: They'll always be there, So you take them for granted, Yeah, 581 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 3: you take them. 582 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 2: It's a tough one, isn't it. And a lot of 583 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 2: people don't realize that is that you are actually know 584 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 2: the sacrifices that you make, right or wrong, in order 585 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 2: to have this successful life can be at the difference 586 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 2: sometimes well. 587 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 3: And the truth of the matter is that at the 588 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 3: end of those days or those weeks when I've been 589 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 3: away and certainly further down the track when I opened 590 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 3: a cooking school and I was on breakfast radio all 591 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 3: at the same time, what I had left at the 592 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 3: end of the day when I went home to my 593 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 3: family was nothing, nothing, whatsoever. They got the least of me, 594 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 3: They got the worst of me. I couldn't smile, I 595 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 3: couldn't make a joke. I couldn't provide for them anything 596 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 3: that I was supposed to provide because I had nothing left. 597 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 3: There was nothing left in my tank at the end 598 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 3: of each and every day. So you know, for me, now, 599 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 3: I'm back to color coding my calendar and I look 600 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 3: at it every day and make sure that there's balance 601 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 3: and the categories in there. My mental health and my 602 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 3: family are the two most important things in that calendar, 603 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 3: and if they're not dominating that calendar, then I start 604 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 3: dropping things off. 605 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 2: And when did you realize after this Master Chef moment, 606 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 2: you've got all these TV shows, you've got a cooking school. 607 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 2: When did When was the moment you realize that you 608 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 2: were taking on too much and that you know you 609 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 2: were close, if not to burn out? 610 00:32:54,160 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 3: Oh I hit burnout. I wasn't great at re the 611 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 3: signals that my brain was sending me that it was 612 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 3: all too much. I eventually went to a GP who 613 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 3: you know, I got a diagnosis of anxiety and depression, 614 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 3: went on medications. 615 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 2: There a moment that you came back and you thought 616 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 2: I need help. 617 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, there was, But it wasn't. It wasn't me 618 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 3: that recognized the moment. It is no, it wasn't me. 619 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 2: That was so engulfed in this world that you can't 620 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 2: see outside of it. You don't not until someone. 621 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I guess I found myself back where 622 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 3: I was in year twelve. 623 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 2: And talk about doing the full circle, so you've done 624 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 2: it in the reverse this time. You know, you've done 625 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 2: it in a full time to be where you are today. 626 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 2: So you felt yourself going back to you don't want 627 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 2: to be here. 628 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 3: I had nothing left. I just had nothing left, and 629 00:33:54,800 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 3: I had in my head because it's sickness, right, severe 630 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 3: depression is a serious illness, and it's a life threatening illness. 631 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 3: And my life was threatened by it. And I couldn't 632 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 3: stop what I was doing. I couldn't stop because in 633 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 3: my head, well, who else can do the Rabbit and 634 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,720 Speaker 3: Julie Goodwhen radio show if I don't turn up every morning? 635 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 3: And who else can run Julie's place cooking school? I mean, 636 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 3: my bloody name was on it. What a mistake. And 637 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 3: you know, so I was going home at night. The 638 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 3: only I could shut off my brain late at night 639 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 3: was to drink wine. So I was doing too much 640 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 3: of that. So I was self medicating. And that's a terrible, 641 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 3: terrible way to sleep, because you wake up with your 642 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,879 Speaker 3: heart hammering and it just all becomes this massive, you know, 643 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 3: self fulfilling prophecy. And I went, I went right down 644 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,399 Speaker 3: to the bottom of the well. And I had made 645 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 3: a decision that everybody, everybody, my colleagues, my children, my husband, 646 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 3: my family, everybody would be better off if I just 647 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 3: racked off and let them all be. And that was 648 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 3: the decision that I made, and that was the action 649 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,880 Speaker 3: I was taking. And I was stumbled upon by a 650 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,320 Speaker 3: couple of strangers who recognized that I was a person 651 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 3: that needed some company, and they sat with me, and 652 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 3: I was executing a plan. If it's no, it's okay. 653 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 3: This is why you know. This is why I wrote 654 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 3: the book, and because what I want is for people 655 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,919 Speaker 3: to recognize the earlier signs before they get to this point. 656 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 3: So when you say, when did you know? I was 657 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 3: nearly dead when I found out that I needed help, 658 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 3: I was sitting on the edge of Brisbane water and 659 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 3: I was ready. I was just trying to figure out 660 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 3: what to do with my shoes. I didn't know what 661 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 3: to do with my shoes, and I was trying to 662 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 3: figure that out when this young couple came up and 663 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 3: recognized how distress I was and said, do you look 664 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 3: like you need some company? And they just sat with 665 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 3: me for a couple of. 666 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:10,760 Speaker 2: Hours, really just passed passing by, not you didn't say. 667 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 3: Hello, passed me by, and they turned around and came 668 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 3: back and said, you look like you need some company. 669 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 3: And so they just sat with me for a couple 670 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,839 Speaker 3: of hours and took to me. They had their dog 671 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 3: with them, you know dogs. 672 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 2: They knew, they knew that, they knew, Yeah, they absolutely knew. 673 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 2: They thought, if we leave this lady alone, she's not 674 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 2: going to be here. Yep, And you weren't. 675 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 3: And eventually I said, I'm going to be all right now, 676 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 3: I'm going to call my husband, and when I told 677 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,280 Speaker 3: him what had happened, he took me straight to the hospital. 678 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 3: And then I became a client of the mental health system, 679 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 3: and that's what I remained for quite a long time. 680 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 3: I was in and out of hospital five times. 681 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 2: So you're you're you're in the height of your career. 682 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 2: You've got everything going on for you. Anyone looking from 683 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 2: the outside in be like, she's made it, she's a 684 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 2: successful But they can't look at the inside out, can they? 685 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,439 Speaker 3: Anyone listening to me on the radio would have had 686 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 3: zero idea zero because that was the strength of some 687 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 3: parts of my brain, was to be able to completely compartmentalize. 688 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 3: And I've been doing that my whole life. I don't 689 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 3: I and I used to say to my colleague, you know, 690 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 3: because we used to say, six or nine is the 691 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,839 Speaker 3: show zone, and nothing enters the show zone. And so 692 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 3: I would say to him, Oh, got some stuff going on, 693 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 3: but I'll put it in the box. I'll put it 694 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 3: in the brain box. And when we went on the 695 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 3: Christmas break in twenty nineteen, it all just fell apart. 696 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 3: When it was time to go back, I was I 697 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 3: was in a mental hospital, and I just I said 698 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:53,359 Speaker 3: to him, I'm not going to be able to come 699 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 3: back when I thought I was coming back, And he said, 700 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 3: what happened? And I said, the box broke and he 701 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 3: knew exactly exactly. He knew exactly what happened. And they 702 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 3: held my job for as long as they could, and 703 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,439 Speaker 3: then they had to give it away. And I also 704 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,440 Speaker 3: had to acknowledge that that job was part of the 705 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 3: downhill spiral because it's they're not hours that are conducive 706 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 3: to also running a full time hospitality business, which has 707 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 3: you up late at night and working weekends. I was 708 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 3: literally working seven days a week and I had been 709 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 3: doing it for four years. It is not a. 710 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 2: Sustainable Candles from both fans and and yeah, wow, so 711 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 2: how did you manage to recover and what was what 712 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 2: was the recovery like and the support that you. 713 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 3: Got recovery is ongoing. Because when I first went into hospital, 714 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 3: I kind of thought, well, it's like, you know, if 715 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 3: you break your leg, your leg heels and you run away, 716 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 3: you know. And so when I when it didn't work 717 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 3: and I had to go back, I was so angry. 718 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 3: I remember going in and just being so angry and 719 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 3: saying to them I did all the things, all the 720 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 3: things you said, and I'm not better, So get me 721 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 3: better drugs or get me a better doctor. But essentially 722 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 3: it was like it was like they'd failed. But what 723 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,239 Speaker 3: I didn't understand was it's not like a broken leg. 724 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 3: What it is like is your car. So you can't 725 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,839 Speaker 3: put petrol in your car and go, Okay, job done. 726 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 3: I never have to do that again. You got to 727 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:31,399 Speaker 3: keep putting petrol in your car. You've got to keep 728 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 3: taking it to the mechanic and keep it running, you know, 729 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 3: and if you don't, it's going to fall apart. Well, 730 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 3: your brain is like a car, and there's a lot 731 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 3: of there's a lot of practical stuff that needs to 732 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:46,439 Speaker 3: be done, physical stuff. It's a laundry list of things 733 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 3: that I absolutely have to do to stay well. And 734 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,480 Speaker 3: that they involve physical activity, all the stuff we know. 735 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 3: But once it becomes literally life or death, it gets 736 00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 3: a lot easier to do because it's like I will 737 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 3: not compatient with it. I will not go back there. 738 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 3: So what I need to do is physical activity. I 739 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 3: need to do meditation, I need to see my psychologist. 740 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 3: I take medication, and I know not everyone agrees that 741 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 3: you should do that, but it has helped me. And 742 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 3: while ever I'm in a good place, I'm sticking with 743 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,719 Speaker 3: what works. Time in nature, time with family, creativity is 744 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,839 Speaker 3: important to me. So there's there's a whole bunch of 745 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 3: things that I need to do to stay well. And 746 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 3: I don't drink anymore. I've stopped alcohol. It's coming up 747 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,480 Speaker 3: for four years now. And that was one of the 748 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 3: hardest parts of the whole bloody thing. 749 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 2: Probably one of the main contributing denominators to your mental health. 750 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 2: Like you said, even if you have a glass of 751 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 2: wine or two at night, you wake up and there's 752 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,280 Speaker 2: still that tiny bit of brain fall, your heart's still beating, 753 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 2: you know. 754 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,239 Speaker 3: But I got to a point where a glass of 755 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:53,239 Speaker 3: two never wasn't cutting it. So I just I had 756 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 3: to make a very clear decision, and it's the lifestyle 757 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 3: and the habits hardest part to break actually, but you know, 758 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 3: and now it's easier. And I would say to anyone 759 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 3: who's questioning whether or not they should maybe he's up 760 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 3: a bit on it. Well, if you're asking yourself that question, 761 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 3: the answer is probably yes. And b it gets easier. 762 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 3: It gets easier. And I can make that promise because 763 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 3: you know, I've interacted with now hundreds and hundreds of 764 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,799 Speaker 3: people who are on that same path, so it does 765 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 3: get easier. And now I like, I'm completely happy. I'm 766 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 3: so happy that I don't have to have that to 767 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:31,920 Speaker 3: worry about, as well as all the other crap. 768 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,800 Speaker 2: You said that your memoir helped you as well, let's 769 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 2: finish on your book. How has it helped you and 770 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 2: how is it going to help other people? 771 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 3: Well, it helped me by shining a light on some 772 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 3: stuff that you know, what do they say, shamed eyes 773 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 3: in daylight? So I brought out all the things that 774 00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 3: I was ashamed of and I exposed it all to 775 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 3: the daylight. There's really nothing left, you know, And there's 776 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,359 Speaker 3: nothing left. I've brought it off, I've put it all 777 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 3: out there, so judge me. If you will, and as 778 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:15,439 Speaker 3: you will, it's out, it's there, and it does die 779 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 3: in daylight. It lessens because actually, now I've got ownership 780 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,800 Speaker 3: over all of it. Nobody can expose me for anything. 781 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,160 Speaker 3: It's mine and it's there. And what I can say 782 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 3: to anybody else who's got shame over anything at all, 783 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,720 Speaker 3: just work through it, you know, talk through it, get 784 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 3: whatever help you need. So the way I want it 785 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 3: to help other people is by recognizing the early signs 786 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 3: of mental decay and that downhill spiral. Recognizing those signs. 787 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,640 Speaker 3: If you're a perfectionist, if you're a people, please it. 788 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,920 Speaker 3: If you're the person who everyone says, I don't know 789 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,319 Speaker 3: how you do it, that's not a compliment. It might 790 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 3: sound like one, it might be meant as one. That's 791 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,839 Speaker 3: a warning. That is a warning. If people are looking 792 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 3: at you saying how do you manage? You probably shouldn't 793 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 3: be managing all of that, And there's probably stuff going 794 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:08,840 Speaker 3: on underneath as to why you think you need to 795 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,239 Speaker 3: be managing all of that. Please take those signals that 796 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,799 Speaker 3: your brain sends you before they become life or death, 797 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 3: you know, please get some help. Talk. Let's keep this 798 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,239 Speaker 3: conversation going. Let's keep being open about it and lose 799 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,960 Speaker 3: the bloody shame of you know, all the shame I 800 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,279 Speaker 3: saw in the people who were in that mental hospitals. 801 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 3: The five hospitalizations I had, there wasn't a single one 802 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:33,759 Speaker 3: where there weren't people who were just so ashamed of 803 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,160 Speaker 3: themselves that they'd landed there. Forget that you're there trying 804 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,880 Speaker 3: to get well. You're the hero in this story because 805 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,240 Speaker 3: you are here trying to get well. Let's make people 806 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,960 Speaker 3: heroes for acknowledging that they need a hand every now 807 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 3: and again. You know, you're the people that are making 808 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,799 Speaker 3: it easier for me to talk about it. And you know, 809 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 3: I think we need to raise people up, approach other 810 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,560 Speaker 3: people with compassion, and approach yousselves with compassion as well. 811 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 2: That's how I hope it'll shame dies in daylight. And 812 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:08,239 Speaker 2: I suppose when you acknowledge your shames and you bring 813 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,360 Speaker 2: them to the forefront, no one can use them against 814 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,759 Speaker 2: you either, because you know that you've already exposed them. 815 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 3: And I've told that story. Bro go find a different one. 816 00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,359 Speaker 2: I love that. I love that. Julie, thank you ever 817 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 2: so much for coming on my podcast. Great to see 818 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,880 Speaker 2: you once again. And who knows you meet on another 819 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:31,560 Speaker 2: shows every time. Soon you know SA Australia. 820 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,520 Speaker 3: Do you know what smash that? Thank you? 821 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:40,040 Speaker 2: Julie has written an extraordinary memoir, so if you enjoyed 822 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,240 Speaker 2: this conversation, I urge you to pick up a copy. 823 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:48,319 Speaker 2: It's called Your Time Starts Now. I'll link the details 824 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,480 Speaker 2: in the show notes. Thanks for listening to this episode 825 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,440 Speaker 2: of Headgame. If you like listening to the podcast, please 826 00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 2: leave me a review. I'm Att Middleton. You in the 827 00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:05,360 Speaker 2: next episode.