Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.
Speaker 1: It's Monday, April twenty seven, twenty twenty six. Donald Trump
Speaker 1: says he's a target for would be assassins because he
Speaker 1: has changed America. That's after a man armed with guns
Speaker 1: and a knife rushed a security checkpoint at a black
Speaker 1: tie dinner in a Washington, DC hotel where Trump was
Speaker 1: a guest. Teacher Cole Allen has been charged. Trump begged
Speaker 1: Americans to commit to resolving their differences peacefully. In South Wales,
Speaker 1: Western Australia and the Act will take today as a
Speaker 1: public holiday to mark Anzac Day. Crowds are streaming through
Speaker 1: the newly renovated War Memorial in Canberra. There are special
Speaker 1: footy games. People are baking Anzac biscuits together. A couple
Speaker 1: of generations ago, Anzac Day was in danger of dying out.
Speaker 1: Now it's bigger than ever so changed. Our reporter Jamie
Speaker 1: Walker is here.
Speaker 2: It just seems to get bigger every year, doesn't it.
Speaker 2: And it's also quite remarkable to think about it that
Speaker 2: this is at a time when Australia is not at war.
Speaker 2: You know, we are not yet directly involved in the
Speaker 2: Iran conflict.
Speaker 3: Though we obviously have some people in.
Speaker 2: Jubai, and I think it says a lot about.
Speaker 3: How much Anzac Day means to the country.
Speaker 1: Jamie Walker is an associate editor with The Australian.
Speaker 2: And I've been reflecting on us a little bit and
Speaker 2: I'm very interested in what Steve Weisard had to say.
Speaker 2: He wrote a book about the Anzac legend, what he
Speaker 2: calls the Anzac Myth, and he makes a point that
Speaker 2: every country has to have a foundational myth.
Speaker 3: In the United States, it's the War.
Speaker 2: Of Independence, the movement of the settlers and the development
Speaker 2: out west in that country.
Speaker 3: In the Night Kingdom.
Speaker 2: You know, it's all tied up with the monarchy and
Speaker 2: Magna Carta and all of these things. What is the
Speaker 2: foundational myth of Australia. Well, it's not federation, is it.
Speaker 2: I think it's Zact Day that speaks to our character
Speaker 2: about makeship, about sacrifice, about many of the things we
Speaker 2: see ourselves as being Australia would like to see ourselves
Speaker 2: as being as Australians.
Speaker 1: It's probably a little bit more inclusive, maybe for younger
Speaker 1: Australians two who might feel conflicted about Australia Day, for example.
Speaker 1: Plenty of Indigenous veterans, of course, have served across Australia
Speaker 1: services throughout the past century and more, and so perhaps
Speaker 1: there's an ability to feel more excited about Anzac Day.
Speaker 1: I was watching the Rugby League over the weekend and
Speaker 1: heard someone describing Anzac Day. A commentator describing Anzac Day
Speaker 1: as Australia's most important day. I thought that was really
Speaker 1: interesting when we do have Australia Day again.
Speaker 2: I think the problem with Australia Day is that it's
Speaker 2: slightly conflicted, isn't it. You know, it's Invasion Day to
Speaker 2: many Australians. I think younger people are probably a little
Speaker 2: more skeptical about it. Anzac Day is unambiguous. I don't
Speaker 2: know if you celebrate Anzact Day or commemorate Anzac Day.
Speaker 2: I think you do both. And I think that shows
Speaker 2: where in the way the day rolls out. Starts with
Speaker 2: the very very solemn ritual of the dawn service, and
Speaker 2: then it rolls into the marches, which are quite joyous events,
Speaker 2: and of course the afternoon at the pub or at
Speaker 2: the footy or whatever, or at the barbecue in the backyard.
Speaker 2: So it's a day that brings people together, whereas I
Speaker 2: think Australia Day for an element of us at least,
Speaker 2: there is a divisive element in it, and for that
Speaker 2: reason I think Anzac Day, Yeah, it's certainly our national
Speaker 2: day and one thing we've reflected on in the past,
Speaker 2: clear which you know, we're both of a certain generation,
Speaker 2: I expect more so than I am the new But
Speaker 2: I remember vividly going to Anzac Day in the nineteen
Speaker 2: sixties and early seventies with my grandfather who was a
Speaker 2: World War Two veteran in North Queensland, and it wasn't
Speaker 2: exactly a fashionable thing to do, you know. It was
Speaker 2: all these old blokes from the RSL marching around and
Speaker 2: we're all sitting there thinking, well, what's all this about?
Speaker 2: And I think the big circuit breaker and it's always
Speaker 2: worth reflecting on this was the Peter Weir movie Gallipoli.
Speaker 3: Loo can make us go?
Speaker 1: Are they?
Speaker 2: There's no point as men should have gone Barton Marca
Speaker 2: Fax I've been seeing not by.
Speaker 4: Me, sir.
Speaker 5: I've asked for confirmation from General dun orders our to attack,
Speaker 5: and you'll do so immediately.
Speaker 3: The British Atsulram must be allowed to get ashore. Is
Speaker 3: that clear? You are to push on? It's cold, but
Speaker 3: a murdered I said, push on. From a place you
Speaker 3: never heard of, comes a story you'll never forget.
Speaker 2: And at that time why that had such effect I
Speaker 2: think in the nineteenth very early nineteen eighties, and why
Speaker 2: it helped switch around the public view that Anzac Day
Speaker 2: was a bit old fashioned, a bit daggy, a bit
Speaker 2: out of step with what we think is that for
Speaker 2: the first time my generation saw the World War One
Speaker 2: diggers of blokes who went to Gallipoli and then on
Speaker 2: to the Western Front. We saw them as young men.
Speaker 2: We hadn't experienced that before. We were used to seeing
Speaker 2: them with their short back inside haircuts, you know, standing
Speaker 2: in the bar at the RSL, complaining about us. So
Speaker 2: I think that was part of this process of change
Speaker 2: which we now see in its fulfillment today.
Speaker 1: Keith Payne, what a remarkable Australian. He was a relatively
Speaker 1: young army officer, although already an experienced veteran from the
Speaker 1: Korean War. When in Vietnam, despite having suffered terrible injuries
Speaker 1: of his own, he showed enormous gallantry under fire and
Speaker 1: saved the lives of of his comrades. You spoke to
Speaker 1: him about his feelings about vis Anzac Day, and particularly
Speaker 1: about the controversy that's now raging about Ben Robert Smith,
Speaker 1: the VC recipient who's accused of five counts of war
Speaker 1: crime murder. What did Keith Paine tell you about Ben Robert.
Speaker 2: Smith, Well, he said, unambiguously, he's a friend, not just
Speaker 2: a fellow VC holder. He considers Ben Robert Smith a
Speaker 2: mate and he considered it his duty to stand by him.
Speaker 2: So Keith Payin came out and said, I'd much on
Speaker 2: Enzac Day with Ben Robert Smith.
Speaker 3: He's my friend.
Speaker 2: Living soldier has spent his first night behind bars after
Speaker 2: being charged with five counts of war crime murder.
Speaker 5: After ten days in Sydney's Silver Water Prison, Ben Robert
Speaker 5: Smith is on his way back to Queensland.
Speaker 2: He also talks a little bit about his ethos I suppose,
Speaker 2: and he's very strong in this point. He says what
Speaker 2: happens in war should stay in war. In other words,
Speaker 2: he's saying that it's very, very difficult to second judge
Speaker 2: all of the things that might happen in a firefight
Speaker 2: or in the course of combat. And I think that's
Speaker 2: something worth taking into account. I mean, we can all
Speaker 2: look back on, you know, things in perfect hindsight, and
Speaker 2: we all look back in our lives and wish we
Speaker 2: did things differently. But gosh, when you're a soldier, there's
Speaker 2: no do overs, and the decisions are made in a
Speaker 2: split moment, and very often the events are entirely out
Speaker 2: of your control.
Speaker 3: And I think he, of all people is aware of that.
Speaker 1: Ben Robert Smith made a speech after attending a dawn
Speaker 1: service on Saturday at Carombin in Queensland.
Speaker 5: As I day is not about one individual or an
Speaker 5: individual battle, or even a war. It is about acknowledging
Speaker 5: those that, when asked, answered a nation's call to defend
Speaker 5: this country in the hope that they will made it.
Speaker 3: A better place.
Speaker 5: This ends at day. I would like to thank all
Speaker 5: of the servicemen and women, the veterans and their families.
Speaker 1: Ben Robert Smith will, of course vigorously defend himself. He
Speaker 1: says he always acted within the rules of engagement and
Speaker 1: within the law. The jury in his trial, if he
Speaker 1: does ever get to trial, will probably not know what
Speaker 1: those rules of engagement are, though, because it's already been
Speaker 1: declared in the Commonwealth Statement of facts in that matter,
Speaker 1: that the rules of engagement are classified and can't be
Speaker 1: shared in open court. Australians are debating this in the
Speaker 1: years that it will take for Ben Robert Smith to
Speaker 1: actually get to trial. What are you hearing from veterans
Speaker 1: about what they think about that very question, Jamie, whether
Speaker 1: an alleged breach of the rules of engagement or an
Speaker 1: an act in war might have breached Australian law.
Speaker 2: Look, I think again there's a cross section of opinion
Speaker 2: among the veterans community, and so goes to a little
Speaker 2: bit of the internal politics within the military that the
Speaker 2: regular army guys probably resent a little bit of the resources,
Speaker 2: including higher pay that goes to the ESAs, and I
Speaker 2: think some of the if you talk to a regular
Speaker 2: army guy, they will say, we're professional soldiers, We're bound
Speaker 2: by the rules of war, we abide by them, and
Speaker 2: we've got little time for anyone who breaks those rules. Now,
Speaker 2: that comes down to a judgment of what you think
Speaker 2: of the case against Ben Robert Smith, And in due
Speaker 2: course we're all going to hear chapter and verse of that,
Speaker 2: and it will be a very very different case, of course,
Speaker 2: than what was presented at the Civil proceedings. This will
Speaker 2: be a criminal trial with a much much higher standard
Speaker 2: of beyond reasonable doubt than where you saw in the
Speaker 2: civil proceedings on the.
Speaker 3: Balance of probability. So put that aside.
Speaker 2: I think also within the military community, I think there
Speaker 2: is a lot of sympathy for Ben Robert Smith on
Speaker 2: the basis of of how much publicity this has received,
Speaker 2: how in the views of some that it's been trialed
Speaker 2: by media. I don't necessarily subscribe to that, but some
Speaker 2: people believe that, and I think that it's going to
Speaker 2: be a very very polarizing case and a very very
Speaker 2: difficult case just on the merits of what went on,
Speaker 2: let alone the fact that this man won.
Speaker 3: The highest award for valor that Australia can give.
Speaker 1: After the break more of my conversation with Jamie. Women
Speaker 1: have served throughout Australia's history of conflict, whether it's on
Speaker 1: the battlefield as nurses or back home as wives, homemakers,
Speaker 1: supporters for the men who'd gone to serve. You've been
Speaker 1: speaking to some of the widows who are supported by
Speaker 1: a legacy.
Speaker 3: What are they.
Speaker 1: Telling you, Jamie at this time of year.
Speaker 2: Oh, look, we have a lovely story in the paper
Speaker 2: about Jess Taylor, who's thirty six, whose husband died after
Speaker 2: he returned from Afghanistan in very tragic circumstances, and Betty Bull,
Speaker 2: who's a hundred and hilarious.
Speaker 5: I have for a tea.
Speaker 3: Thank you. If it's made wrong, it's right. I don't
Speaker 3: make it.
Speaker 4: Is that your excuse and I'm sticking to it, oh aih.
Speaker 2: Anyway, we got them together just to share their experiences,
Speaker 2: and what they said was they just feel this incredible bond.
Speaker 2: You know, there's sixty odd years between them in age,
Speaker 2: and yet they can each relate to each other's experience
Speaker 2: so deeply, and particularly with the trauma that Jess endured
Speaker 2: with the family, she says she actually spends quite a
Speaker 2: bit of time with older women.
Speaker 3: She says she doesn't even have to talk to them.
Speaker 2: You know, she just sits there and she knows they
Speaker 2: understand what she has gone through after her husband came
Speaker 2: back from war.
Speaker 3: Her husband had served.
Speaker 2: In East Temor and in Afghanistan and had a pretty
Speaker 2: rough time when he came back and unfortunately passed away
Speaker 2: during that awful process.
Speaker 4: You're showing me that it doesn't matter what you've been through,
Speaker 4: you are still living a fulfilled life, and you're still
Speaker 4: laughing and you're dancing, and that to me shows so
Speaker 4: much promise in my life and my boys' lives.
Speaker 3: God Bleach and Darling god Bleach Sheel.
Speaker 1: Of course they deserve our respect and acknowledgment. And today
Speaker 1: they'll be bathed in Lofe. I hope lest we forget.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Jamie, Thank you, Clyn. Jamie Walker
Speaker 1: is an associate editor with The Australian. You can check
Speaker 1: out all his work right now at the Australian dot
Speaker 1: com dot au