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Speaker 1: Hi, my Boris and this is straight Talk, my Luba.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to straight Talk.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. How good?

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Speaker 1: How you feeling?

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Speaker 2: Well? A little bit tired.

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Speaker 3: I was on got late, got in late last night

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Speaker 3: from Dubai. There was a sevens tournament up there, so

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Speaker 3: I was up there doing a bit of stuff with

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Speaker 3: HSBC which was in commentary or a bit of commentary,

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Speaker 3: a bit of rugby stuff. So sevens competition. The sevens

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Speaker 3: kicked off their their competition for the year, so big

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Speaker 3: event up in Dubai, which was yeah, cracking, cracking stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's mad up there isn't it like the stuff that's

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Speaker 1: going on in the Middle East, like Saudi Dubai, Abadhabi.

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Speaker 2: Do you have a look around, mate, I didn't.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to get to the wavepool that Kelly's just

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Speaker 3: opened up in Abu Dhabi.

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Speaker 2: But no, we were. We were in Dubai.

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Speaker 3: But the event was cricket, rugby seven's like you know,

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Speaker 3: there's a heap of stuff going on some a big

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Speaker 3: concert right at the end of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, I do so.

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Speaker 1: So I actually sat with I had breakfast with the

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Speaker 1: maid of mine, Ginge David Ginjel, and he went to

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Speaker 1: the wave pool last week, which one in but I

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Speaker 1: did that new one. There's no hotel book built there,

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Speaker 1: but it's just the facility. He said, it is unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: And he showed me some videos of him on some

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Speaker 1: waves and he went up with the Morbid Blokes and

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Speaker 1: the Team Blakes and they booked the whole joint out

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Speaker 1: and he said, he said, you just he said, the

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Speaker 1: places on steroids. He said that whle between Abadabi is

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Speaker 1: like an hour and a half between that and Dubai.

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Speaker 1: He said, just driving through you're not driving through Disney

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Speaker 1: where you're driving through Disneyland on steroids. It's mental. Every

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Speaker 1: facility you can possibly imagine for anyone in the world,

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Speaker 1: sporting fun, recreation, hotels, bills and middle of the desert,

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Speaker 1: like everything is mental.

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Speaker 3: They were in a mall that had an aquarium in it,

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Speaker 3: like genuine sharks in the aquarium and then you're just

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Speaker 3: walking past and buying something nothing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, made it's remarkable, great place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So what are they doing in terms of rugby sevens?

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Speaker 1: So what's what's going on there? What was was.

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Speaker 3: This just the start of Ruby Sea started the tournament, So,

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Speaker 3: I mean their last big thing was the Olympics. So

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Speaker 3: it was quite an interesting one because as always new seasons,

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Speaker 3: new sort. After that end of the four year period,

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Speaker 3: there's a new cycle. So yes, seven's kicks off, they

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Speaker 3: go you know through they're down to Cape Town this week,

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Speaker 3: but then they'll come to Perth, Hong Kong and I

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Speaker 3: think end up Singapore and La So that's their tournament.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty cool. So you try to get to rugby

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Speaker 1: seven's the Olympics tried.

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Speaker 2: Ye A keyword what happened? Maybe it's a hard game.

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Speaker 3: So it came into the Olympics twenty sixteen, probably before that.

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Speaker 3: Arguably before that it was a little bit specialist, but

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Speaker 3: not a special specialist as it is now. It's bloody hard,

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Speaker 3: different energy source, different skill set. They are real generalists

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Speaker 3: in what they have to do. They've got to pass,

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Speaker 3: they've got to be super fit. They're all agile and

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Speaker 3: a twenty two a fast, yeah, and twenty two years

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Speaker 3: old and I'm thirty. I tried to do it at

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Speaker 3: thirty two and had never played before, played two tournaments

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Speaker 3: and yeah, I had had a good first.

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Speaker 2: Game and I went downhill from there pretty quick.

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Speaker 1: So is a gas?

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Speaker 2: What's that?

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Speaker 1: Did you? Is? It the amount of gas you have

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Speaker 1: do you have to have to play sevens? Or is

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Speaker 1: it the speed of the game.

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Speaker 2: What is it?

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Speaker 3: Well, I was a fit fifteen's player. I had a

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Speaker 3: good engine in fifteen's footy. But in sevens it's the

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Speaker 3: repeat speed and being fast but then being able to

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Speaker 3: repeat it and repeat it, and then the skill set.

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Speaker 3: The ball moves differently to you know, it's still tackle,

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Speaker 3: it's still past, still scrum and line out, the things

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Speaker 3: that we know about footy, but it's just the ball

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Speaker 3: moves different and it's hard.

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Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's fast. I was underdone.

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Speaker 1: There's so much more space. Yeah, because there's less people obviously,

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Speaker 1: but there's so much space and it looks like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you get to run a lot further than would in

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Speaker 1: a fifteen's game.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, a lot further than you would. And you know,

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Speaker 3: I'd been playing a certain way for fifteen years and

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Speaker 3: then I had to try and undo that, undo that

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Speaker 3: sort of subconscious way of how I entered the field,

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Speaker 3: and I struggled.

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Speaker 2: I struggled, so I got better.

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Speaker 3: As I think if I had a little bit longer,

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Speaker 3: we would have got a bit closer. But no, not

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Speaker 3: to be it would have been cool. The guys end

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Speaker 3: up going coming forth in the Olympics, so it would

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Speaker 3: have been nice, But no, no, dice.

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Speaker 1: One of the one of the Rooster's recent recruits, which

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Speaker 1: is the team on the I on the board of

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Speaker 1: is Mark. He played in the rugby sevens in in

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Speaker 1: the Olympics and Paris Mark and a W a Q

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Speaker 1: And I cannot spell the rest of his name, and

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Speaker 1: I cannot.

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Speaker 2: Brounce it.

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Speaker 1: No longer ne to us, and he's How do you think,

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Speaker 1: because you know between the two has been a lot

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Speaker 1: of switching. You know, we had Joseph Lee recently he's

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Speaker 1: gone that way to rugby, and now we've got someone

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Speaker 1: like Mark and rugby league. How do you think that

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Speaker 1: sort of transition occurs. I always thought someone like Rocky

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Speaker 1: Elson would have been a great roguy league player. I

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Speaker 1: just I just thought it's something about him. I think

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Speaker 1: you would have been too tough. You've got to be.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying rugby union is not tough, but there's

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Speaker 1: got to be a lot of there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: physical consequence the rugby league. When you've got the ball

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Speaker 1: on your own and you've got to hit it up

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Speaker 1: and you always sort of pretty robust physically robust bloke.

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Speaker 1: What do you think about that change over between either

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Speaker 1: lead ROBUNI or roby in and rugby league. Let's took

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Speaker 1: rugby Uni rugby league first.

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Speaker 2: Going rugby union to rugby league.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think I think it takes Oh well, I

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Speaker 3: think Mark Marky's the I mean the picture boy for it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, his first game is unbelievable.

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Speaker 3: I played heaps with Mark and I think the gift

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Speaker 3: that Marky has well, he played a little bit of

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Speaker 3: league growing up, well, a lot of league growing up,

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Speaker 3: but his athletic ability, he's able to get leap. You know,

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Speaker 3: he's one of those guys kind of like Israel, right

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Speaker 3: that just sort of levitates up. Everyone else jumps, but

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Speaker 3: they just glide up.

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Speaker 2: And have hang time. And I loved how hungry he was.

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Speaker 3: For some of his carries off the line. You know,

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Speaker 3: he goes plays what is a Holden cup The game's below.

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Speaker 3: So he's managed by the same manager that I am,

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Speaker 3: so I was seeing some of his cut performances and

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Speaker 3: then you know, his debut there for the Roosters and

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Speaker 3: it's going to you know, he was carrying those hard

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Speaker 3: ones off the off the try line. Look, I don't

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Speaker 3: think there's anywhere to hide on the rugby league field.

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Speaker 3: Can you watch a game of Origin and I don't

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Speaker 3: think there's.

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Speaker 2: A tougher game.

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Speaker 3: Orange you know played like and you know played a

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Speaker 3: lot of rugby and rugby is a tough game, but

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Speaker 3: it's tough in a different way. I think rugby league

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Speaker 3: is probably tougher and.

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Speaker 2: There's no hiding.

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Speaker 3: Well you carry, You've got to carry off your off

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Speaker 3: your try line like you've got five guys after you

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Speaker 3: and you can't you can't hide.

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Speaker 2: You know the play is going to come your side.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: It looks I would love to have a crack at it,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, it looks. It's a brutal sport.

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Speaker 1: How about the other way? So Joseph Sali's has now

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Speaker 1: gone from rugby to playing for Australia. Anything has been going.

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Speaker 1: It was looking at that first two games.

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Speaker 3: Again similar to Markie right, like he's he played a

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Speaker 3: fair bit of union at school. Was that one of

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Speaker 3: the great big rugby schools in in Sydney.

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Uh, And obviously that whole week around that England week,

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Speaker 3: I was I was very surprised that he was selected

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Speaker 3: big call to make, and he did so well. Like

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Speaker 3: man kid again, has that ability to levitate, has that

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Speaker 3: time in the air, looks like an incredible athlete, looks

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Speaker 3: like his preparation. I mean I heard him on this show,

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Speaker 3: and just the detail he has for a young man,

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Speaker 3: ye twenty one in his preparation is leaps and bounds

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Speaker 3: ahead of many twenty one year olds that I've ever

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Speaker 3: seen myself, included you know, the way he's going about

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Speaker 3: his business at that time.

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Speaker 2: So I mean he is going to be going to

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Speaker 2: be immense.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned is he israelh flow and I just want

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Speaker 1: to touch on that for a second, if you don't mind,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get into politics, but let's call

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Speaker 1: it the politics of censorship. You would remember what happened.

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Speaker 2: I've forgotten actually completely.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to remind you, but Israel sort of like

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Speaker 1: got outed playing at the highest level of rugby union.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what he's doing now, but one

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Speaker 1: of the most was seeing like rugby rugby or rugby

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Speaker 1: lee doesn't really matter rugby, you know, competitors that are

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Speaker 1: both both codes. Ever, shown how easiest is to fall

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Speaker 1: out with the administration of a game and how relevant

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Speaker 1: is the administration and if you're a player, do you

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Speaker 1: have to conform or what's the deal.

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Speaker 3: It's an interesting I mean, that is such a broad topic,

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Speaker 3: right because who are the most supported I guess entities

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Speaker 3: in the world. Is actually the athlete, not the teams

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Speaker 3: a lot of the time. So the biggest followed and

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Speaker 3: supported people around the world, your Ronaldo's or your long

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Speaker 3: bron James's or you know, people within the teams, the

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Speaker 3: stories within the not the teams themselves. I mean you're

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Speaker 3: maybe a man you or you know a Yankees or

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Speaker 3: something like that. You know, household names, they're up there,

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Speaker 3: but they still don't have the same type of followers

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Speaker 3: that some of these individuals have. So getting that balance

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Speaker 3: right of how do you allow someone to be themselves

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Speaker 3: and represent the community that they represent and fit within

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Speaker 3: a team is a trick. That's what the team's all about.

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Speaker 3: How do you get that balance balance right? You know,

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Speaker 3: with all we see it in all different situations, and

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Speaker 3: I think rugby's a really tough one, isn't it, And

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Speaker 3: sport in general, because when you're a paid athlete and

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Speaker 3: I'm not making any excuses for people and you know,

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Speaker 3: myself included up you know, made mistakes and publicly made

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Speaker 3: mistakes as well, So I'm part of this as well.

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Speaker 3: But you're a well paid young man in a team environment,

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Speaker 3: trying to find your way at twenty twenty one years old,

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Speaker 3: with pressure, ego, expectation, all these things, immaturity, immaturity, and

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Speaker 3: we expect people to be finished products and we're kind

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Speaker 3: of surprised that we're not. So, you know, I think

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Speaker 3: it's it's inevitable that mistakes are going to be made

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Speaker 3: and going to happen, whether you know people deem them

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Speaker 3: as mistakes or not. But how do we then allow

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Speaker 3: well not you know, you don't want to cancel someone

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Speaker 3: because of one thing that's done. How do you then

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Speaker 3: bringing you know, second chances are super important in life

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Speaker 3: because you know, there's guys out, guys and girls making

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Speaker 3: mistakes every weekend. That's how you learn and you grow

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Speaker 3: as you make a mistake and you go again. You

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Speaker 3: just want the mistakes not to be super grand. And

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Speaker 3: I'm not talking about the Israel Filao thing here. I'm

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Speaker 3: more gone on a broader spectrum when it comes to

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Speaker 3: you know, being out in public or comments made on

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Speaker 3: social media, you know all those type of things.

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Speaker 1: But do you think there's a level of or should

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Speaker 1: there be a level of responsibility to a sports person

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Speaker 1: who is getting paid good money that cuts across their

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Speaker 1: own belief system? Do you think is that? I mean,

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Speaker 1: is that a fair thing? Do you think explain that

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Speaker 1: more to me? Like Israel's view on homosexuality relative to

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Speaker 1: his religious beliefs, which he seems to be fairly strident about,

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Speaker 1: there was an expectation that he didn't take that into

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Speaker 1: the public are in it because he had he's a

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Speaker 1: representative player on good money. It brings potentially brings a

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Speaker 1: game and a disrepute because the administration of the game

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Speaker 1: believes that has a different belief system and more majority

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Speaker 1: belief system. That is, you know, there's nothing wrong with

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Speaker 1: homosexualities except that blah blah blah. And therefore, if you

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Speaker 1: go and say something that's against our group belief that's

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Speaker 1: going to be a problem for you. Ultimately you Israel,

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Speaker 1: which is sort of what happened, and I'm not asking

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Speaker 1: you for do give me an ethical view on between

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Speaker 1: his beliefs and what the Rape Union beliefs are. I'm

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Speaker 1: not a territory, No, that's not territory. I want to go

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Speaker 1: to it. But as a sportsperson, a young sports person

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Speaker 1: who firmly believes in anything, is it important or how

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Speaker 1: important is it for the administration and tell him how

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Speaker 1: to speak publicly?

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Speaker 3: Well, it is important, But how that's managed, because again

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Speaker 3: we're talking about athletes who represent a community, and that's

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Speaker 3: a good thing as long as it's you know, a healthy,

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Speaker 3: positive discussion and you know, so how that's communicated. You

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Speaker 3: want different that's the great thing about a team. You've

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Speaker 3: got different personalities and represent different things. And but the

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Speaker 3: communication and how that's then portrayed is probably the discussion

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Speaker 3: that you know, I'm not sure who's nailing it at

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Speaker 3: the moment. I haven't digged deep enough into it of

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Speaker 3: the sports around the world that really nail this this

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Speaker 3: type of a thing. So yeah, I mean, I'd like

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Speaker 3: to know how it's how it's done best, because yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's tricky.

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Speaker 2: It's tricky water, it really is.

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Speaker 1: You know, in some respece it can stuff someone's career.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of people just say, listen, I get it.

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Speaker 1: I'll hold my views myself. I've got my views of

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Speaker 1: my community views. I'll just put my I'll prosecute my

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Speaker 1: community view, my view within my own community, and I'll

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Speaker 1: just be quite relative to everything else. But other people

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Speaker 1: sort of see themselves as so strident that they nearly

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Speaker 1: feel as they've got an obligation relative to their community,

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Speaker 1: their personal community, their private community that actually is over

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Speaker 1: above the Rugby Union community. So you all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden you get conflicted. Now you got to run in

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Speaker 1: with Eddie Jones, didn't you know, Like, here's your coach,

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Speaker 1: and you know if you don't like him, he doesn't

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Speaker 1: like you. It sort of limits your career to some extent,

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Speaker 1: and it did to some extent. At what point do

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Speaker 1: you say, okay, stuff that I'll just fall in line,

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Speaker 1: I'll do what I've got to do. I'll do it.

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Speaker 2: I'll do it.

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Speaker 1: My career is more important, and I'm just going to

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Speaker 1: fall in line and do what I'm told.

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Speaker 2: Well, what's your what You've got to ask yourself, what's

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Speaker 2: your hierarchy of? You know, what do you want to achieve?

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Speaker 3: If you want to achieve you know, I guess disagreement

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Speaker 3: with a coach, or do I want to fall in

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Speaker 3: line because I want to make the team, or do

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Speaker 3: I want to and I'm not saying that was my situation.

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Speaker 2: Or you've got to.

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Speaker 3: Choose where you value your things and then whatever is

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Speaker 3: at the top you're going to go after that. I

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Speaker 3: think that's that's the simple way of doing it. That's interesting,

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Speaker 3: so and I think I sort of agree with that.

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Speaker 3: Not never been in that position, but like I think

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Speaker 3: I agree that that seems to be the most practical outcome.

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Speaker 3: In other words, if you choose a path, then just

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Speaker 3: that's your path. Don't worry about the consequences because you

303
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Speaker 3: can't complain about the consequences if you choose that path.

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Speaker 3: When you make the priority you said, that's my priority,

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Speaker 3: God in his case is my priority, and the written

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Speaker 3: scriptures is my priority. My community and my private community

307
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Speaker 3: is my priority, then you can't really complain about the consequences.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the day.

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Speaker 3: Well, you've got to accept whatever they're going to be, right,

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Speaker 3: because you can't you can't choose what the outcome is

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Speaker 3: going to be.

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Speaker 2: That's what we like as athletes.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you you want to try and control as

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Speaker 3: much as you possibly can control, but you're never going

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Speaker 3: to know what the fallout is in a game sense,

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Speaker 3: on the field, you never know what the fallout is

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Speaker 3: going to be, you know, off the field, you never

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Speaker 3: know what people are going to take this conversation for

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Speaker 3: even as an example, and then how that's going to go.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I think got to be comfortable in the

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Speaker 3: position or the stance that you take.

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Speaker 2: But then after the fact, that's what reviews about.

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Speaker 3: Like you see that week to week in sport you

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Speaker 3: see that, and like I talked about, if someone makes

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Speaker 3: a mistake or if someone you get good feedback. Okay,

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Speaker 3: well do I want to do that again? Do I

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Speaker 3: not want to do that again? What would I change?

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Speaker 3: How do I want to go? Do I to change

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Speaker 3: my values or my hierarchy after that? You know, So

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Speaker 3: that reflection and review is important, but you've got to

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Speaker 3: make a choice at the end of the day, don't you.

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Speaker 2: And that comes down to action.

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Speaker 1: Let's have a look at who Michael who was growing up?

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Speaker 1: Manly kid?

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Speaker 2: Yep, local school.

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Speaker 1: Where do you go to school?

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Speaker 2: So I went to school in Chatswood, went high school

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Speaker 2: in Chatswood. Just wanted to get me off the.

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Speaker 3: Beaches, I think, So stay school or a Raby school? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: same piece, same yeah, so good. Yeah, not a big

341
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Speaker 3: Rugby school, but a Rugby school.

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Speaker 1: Mum, would you wanted to get away from the Lord

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Speaker 1: and beach?

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Speaker 2: Did you?

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Speaker 1: You know what's what they say about and although they

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Speaker 1: also say now about the Southern Shop, and they also

347
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Speaker 1: now say and they're definitely missaying about these for a

348
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Speaker 1: long time. So but for sure Mum wanted to get

349
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Speaker 1: you away from the beach scene.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well I think so.

351
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean when we talk about it now, there

352
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,760
Speaker 3: was an element of you know being I mean Chuts

353
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Speaker 3: was right on the train line. There, you'd get exposure

354
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Speaker 3: to different things. It was a good school day school,

355
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Speaker 3: not a not a boarding like I had to travel

356
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Speaker 3: a bit to get there, you know, from Choloroid Platto,

357
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Speaker 3: so we weren't in Manly.

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Speaker 1: So you're on the Plato like you're right in the

359
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Speaker 1: heart of the Northern.

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Speaker 2: Beaches, thick of it mate.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so surfer surfer you're serving that, Yeah, surfing then.

362
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,240
Speaker 1: Who were in the were also in the surf club?

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Speaker 2: Did Manly Surf Club?

364
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,640
Speaker 1: Manly Surf Club? Okay, so you're on the beach weekends

365
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Speaker 1: then whenever you get a opportunity to go and have

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Speaker 1: a ride of the board. Mum was pretty intuity then

367
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Speaker 1: because she knows where she knows that she knew, I

368
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 1: should say, the the seduction of that whole lifestyle. Yeah,

369
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Speaker 1: what it brings with it, you know, drugs, party loose.

370
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Speaker 1: You're a kid at this stage, you're only twelve thirty

371
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Speaker 1: and you go in to high school.

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Speaker 3: Yeah no, well, I mean yeah, there's elements of the

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00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,800
Speaker 3: stuff that you talk about anywhere you go, you know,

374
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,320
Speaker 3: rugby teams or surf clubs or whatever. But there's also

375
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,480
Speaker 3: the other stuff around surf club the around fit, healthy

376
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,359
Speaker 3: guys and girls getting out. It's an early like early

377
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,959
Speaker 3: morning community because the ocean is the best in the morning,

378
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,800
Speaker 3: you know, so you're spending your time on the beach,

379
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,800
Speaker 3: you're staying healthy. Like I think that that's probably some

380
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,760
Speaker 3: of the values that a surf club has.

381
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Speaker 2: Like I'm back down there now.

382
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:37,840
Speaker 3: I train with a bunch of guys on a Tuesday morning,

383
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:39,560
Speaker 3: ranging from seventy down.

384
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Speaker 2: I think I'm the youngest down there now.

385
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,680
Speaker 3: So when I turn up there and it's just you know, old,

386
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,159
Speaker 3: everything's got rust on a gym on a Tuesday morning,

387
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,320
Speaker 3: and when my knees are a bit cranky, I've got

388
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:50,840
Speaker 3: no excuse.

389
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Speaker 2: Mates.

390
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,920
Speaker 3: So there's a few older fellas in there. So it's

391
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:55,439
Speaker 3: cool to be part of that because now I'm not

392
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,000
Speaker 3: playing in a team. In that sort of team environment.

393
00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,480
Speaker 3: It's kind of like this little little guys group that

394
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:03,840
Speaker 3: gets up early and trains on a five point fifteen

395
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,280
Speaker 3: on an on a Tuesday morning.

396
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:06,240
Speaker 1: How good? How good?

397
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:06,760
Speaker 2: Is that too?

398
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,240
Speaker 1: As good? Especially the old guys. I'm one of the

399
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,560
Speaker 1: old guys. So you were you surprise? So what point

400
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,720
Speaker 1: did you realize that you could play footy?

401
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:16,000
Speaker 2: Look?

402
00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 3: I represented a lot of rep teams growing up. I

403
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,359
Speaker 3: was competitive younger of an older brother, so he's eighteen

404
00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,360
Speaker 3: months older than me, so everything we did was competition.

405
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:23,680
Speaker 2: Mate.

406
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:25,359
Speaker 3: So like you know, if we're out in the surf

407
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:26,720
Speaker 3: and I see him catch a good wave, I'm not

408
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,520
Speaker 3: looking because he might check in and you know he's

409
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,280
Speaker 3: got one up on me. And you know, we didn't

410
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:32,760
Speaker 3: play a lot of footy in the backyard. But you know,

411
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,800
Speaker 3: even stuff like we're playing, you know, PlayStation games, you'd

412
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 3: have to play together because if we're playing against each

413
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 3: other it would end in not fights, so we aren't fighters,

414
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,480
Speaker 3: but arguments and just you know, like a saltiness for

415
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,600
Speaker 3: a little bit. So yeah, it was always games that

416
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,280
Speaker 3: would do together and stuff like that. But look, I

417
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 3: think being the younger of an older brother naturally you

418
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,520
Speaker 3: just become super competitive. So in terms of rugby, like

419
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,920
Speaker 3: it was a sport, I like the physicality of it.

420
00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 1: We always you always solid.

421
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was doing well.

422
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,280
Speaker 3: My dad's of a palm originally, so he came out

423
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,080
Speaker 3: and landed in Manly and as you know poems do,

424
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,960
Speaker 3: or you do when you turn up somewhere. The beautiful

425
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 3: thing about rugby is you get involved in that community.

426
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,320
Speaker 3: And you know, he credits being involved in that sort

427
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,200
Speaker 3: of manly circle is giving him, you know, a life

428
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,199
Speaker 3: out here and his network and his friends and you know,

429
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,320
Speaker 3: meeting my mum eventually, who was from Concord in the West.

430
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:26,120
Speaker 2: You know, so.

431
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,800
Speaker 3: We very much, you know, that's why they we're part

432
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,159
Speaker 3: of the surf club, part of the Maley Marlins and

433
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,199
Speaker 3: that sort of thing. And in terms of becoming good

434
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,879
Speaker 3: at footy, like I think I loved the Wallabies and the

435
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,600
Speaker 3: Wallabies when I was growing up. Ninety nine World Cup

436
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,080
Speaker 3: two thousand and one, I go and watch them beat

437
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,280
Speaker 3: the Lions in the Third Test, which we've got coming

438
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,480
Speaker 3: out next year, which is hugely exciting. Two thousand and three,

439
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,600
Speaker 3: I went to the semi final where they beat the

440
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,920
Speaker 3: Kiwi's Sterling Mortlocke famously takes intercept and runs. I was

441
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,200
Speaker 3: at the stadium when that happened, so fond memories of rugby,

442
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,200
Speaker 3: but never I thought that, Okay, that's something I'm going

443
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,440
Speaker 3: to do. It was very much like I love the game.

444
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,439
Speaker 3: I love competing and at each level you get to

445
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 3: or for me very much it was okay, this is

446
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 3: a new chance to test myself. And then when you

447
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,040
Speaker 3: get comfortable and you feel like you play well and

448
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,800
Speaker 3: play well consistently, then you're like, okay, well what's the

449
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 3: next level look like? And it just goes on and on.

450
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:26,199
Speaker 1: So was there somebody that you were looking up to? Like,

451
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,199
Speaker 1: I mean when I was a kid, I was in

452
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 1: rugby league terms, I always idolized as a couple of

453
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,399
Speaker 1: particular individuals who were playing in the cannery banks and

454
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 1: combat those in those days, and to be all kid like,

455
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,400
Speaker 1: you know, I sort of pretended to be them. And

456
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,639
Speaker 1: was there some of you idolized in rugby terms?

457
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 2: Yeah?

458
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 3: There was probably three players, so George greg and Stephen Larkham.

459
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 3: Now the nine ten. I've never played nine to ten,

460
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 3: But I just I thought that combination was amazing. But

461
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,720
Speaker 3: the guy in particular that played my position was George Smith.

462
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,120
Speaker 3: So George Smith, he actually went to school right near

463
00:20:58,160 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 3: my house at Chromer, so I was a Colorio Plato

464
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 3: grew up. He was down at Cromer at high school.

465
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,359
Speaker 3: Played for Manley Marlins, again my club, so you know,

466
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:10,440
Speaker 3: there was that connection of where just location right right.

467
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 3: And what I loved about George was he had impact

468
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,639
Speaker 3: on both sides of the ball. So I think some

469
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,159
Speaker 3: of the times the criticism of players in played the

470
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,679
Speaker 3: same position as I do, as you you're either defensive

471
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 3: or all attack. And I liked with George that he

472
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,199
Speaker 3: had impact on both sides of the ball and he

473
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 3: was consistent. You know, it wasn't rocks or diamonds every week.

474
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,399
Speaker 2: It was just amazing.

475
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 3: So he was down at the Brumbies and I finished

476
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,720
Speaker 3: school and went down to the Brumby side, you know,

477
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,120
Speaker 3: a season and a bit with George, which was really cool.

478
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 1: So was that around It was Timmy McGann around those days?

479
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 1: Was Tim mcgahann, No, No, it wasn't. He was before you. Yeah,

480
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 1: he's much before you. Okay, So a couple of because

481
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,439
Speaker 1: did you ever get do you ever get because he

482
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 1: went off to play West Tigers? Did you ever get

483
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: produced in the thing I go play rugby league?

484
00:21:57,960 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 2: No? Not not.

485
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,920
Speaker 1: I was looking at you, I can see you and

486
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 1: playing at as a back roll or as a lock.

487
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:05,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

488
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 3: I would have loved to, yeah, but I was so

489
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 3: hell bent on being a part of a Wallaby team

490
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 3: and a war Tarz team and trying to get take

491
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 3: try and win a World Cup, try and win a

492
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 3: blooders Low. And it wasn't until later in my career

493
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 3: that you go, what could I have had a little

494
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 3: lock at that? But yeah, you know it's easy to

495
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:27,719
Speaker 3: say now, but I think the right time would be

496
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,880
Speaker 3: like what a maybe Mark and Joseph for doing it

497
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 3: well younger than.

498
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: I have in the twenties.

499
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like you know, mid.

500
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 3: Twenties, twenty six, twenty seven, you're right, physical leader, at

501
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,679
Speaker 3: a really good spot to do it. You're hungry, you

502
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 3: know what your game and mentally your game can look like. Yeah,

503
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 3: there's going to be different elements of what you need

504
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 3: to do on the field, but mentally you know what

505
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:48,880
Speaker 3: you're about. I reckon that would have been a good

506
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:49,479
Speaker 3: time to do it.

507
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,880
Speaker 1: So who is your favorite player to play with.

508
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 3: I've got plenty of Bernard Foley, Rob Horn, Nick Pipps,

509
00:22:58,840 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 3: Adam Ashley Cooper.

510
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 1: Why pick one? Unto me? Why?

511
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 2: Oh? Good?

512
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 3: Like they're good friends, good friends. But I loved playing

513
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 3: with guys who were consistent and competitive. They would just

514
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 3: get on the field and it meant.

515
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,360
Speaker 1: A lot to them in that they want to win.

516
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted to win. That's infectious to be around.

517
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 3: Like there was a there's a group of guys you know,

518
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 3: rugby hasn't been you know really, I mean the top

519
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 3: of the log for a for a fair while now,

520
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 3: so part of a crew going hey, let's do our

521
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 3: absolute utmost to try and get there now. It was

522
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,919
Speaker 3: a huge exciting prospect and it was tough, you know,

523
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 3: like it's super competitive to try and get there and stay.

524
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 3: There's a difference between you know, one off good good

525
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 3: win here. But to have consistency over a long period

526
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 3: of time, that's really hard. And that's what we're trying

527
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,199
Speaker 3: to trying to do as a team. And being involved

528
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 3: with your Michael Checks, your Dave Rennies, like you know,

529
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 3: great coaches. Respectfully, that's what they wanted. It's a lot

530
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 3: of fun to be a part of. That's why I

531
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 3: played like it's a it's a tough game. Yes you well,

532
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 3: you're well paid, Yes you get to play footy for

533
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 3: a living, all those sort of stuff, But might as

534
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 3: well do it. You might as well rip in and

535
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 3: try and try and get a couple you know, wins

536
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 3: along the way.

537
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 1: But how so because you know Austray and Ruby starting

538
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:17,360
Speaker 1: to show some signs now, but prior to more recently

539
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: it was a leak looking a bit sorry. How important

540
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 1: is it for four or five guys in aside to

541
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 1: say we're going to win this, We've got to get it,

542
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: We've got to get it together. I mean, does that

543
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: start with a coach or does that start with let's

544
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 1: call it the senior guys, or not even senior guys,

545
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 1: just the team, four or five guys saying, listen, we've

546
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 1: got to win this next whatever it is, this next series,

547
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: whatever series is, and take it upon yourselves to do it.

548
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: Was that something that you guys were doing like in

549
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: your environment?

550
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 2: Oh, I tried to, tried to. I don't think we

551
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 2: didn't get it right.

552
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 3: Definitely part of a group that got it right once

553
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 3: and almost twice. It got into the final of twenty

554
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 3: fifteen World Cup. We won super title in twenty four

555
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 3: team with a bunch of those guys that I mentioned.

556
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 3: You know, so, look, it's going to take everyone within

557
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,719
Speaker 3: a squad to win something proper.

558
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: Does it mean everyone's going to get on board, everyone's

559
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: gonna have the same magnitude or is it just is

560
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: there a small group that sort of drags everyone together

561
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: along with it like a comet. You know, there's the

562
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: comment there's a tail and the gravity of the comet

563
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 1: pulls the rest. I mean, because I can't imagine trying

564
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,479
Speaker 1: to get fifteen guys or a whole squad whatever that is,

565
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: twenty odd twenty odd guys all on the same page,

566
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: like all beers keen to do something as the next bloke.

567
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: If you get four or five, I can see that happens.

568
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: Like in Roby La, your spine wins your games and

569
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: you get all the rest of support, but just a

570
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: good spine to win the games. You've got Penrith for

571
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: good Melbourne and that's probably been the same for a

572
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: long long time. In rugby union, is there any sort

573
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,959
Speaker 1: of equivalent in terms of not necessarily a spine but

574
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: just in terms of the leadership group, the senior team,

575
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: the senior guys.

576
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think a spine's relevant in terms of, you know,

577
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 3: the importance of having you know, the right positions on

578
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 3: the real influential positions on the field lockdown.

579
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 1: So I think, what are they? What are they in rugby?

580
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 3: Oh, I mean at this day and age, it'll be

581
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 3: a tight head prop tight head lock one or two.

582
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 3: Good back rowers nine to ten are always going to

583
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 3: be important. And then I'm probably gonna get slaid for this,

584
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 3: but you know, because everyone every position is important.

585
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: But yeah, then you know.

586
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 3: A backfield player, backfield player being sorry, a winger, fullback

587
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 3: wing actually probably know you wingers. You could probably actually

588
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 3: a center, a really good center twelve thirteen center.

589
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, really a center. It's not a fullback.

590
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's.

591
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 1: Interesting because you know, rugby leg is a bit opposite

592
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: them because you get to fed the ball every fifth

593
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 1: tackle or the fullback, so you need something that could

594
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: take the ball up every every fifth tackle. But there's

595
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: a different game. But rugby union a center because that's

596
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: interesting because they've got they've gone and sign of Joseph

597
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 1: as a center and I'm just wondering whether that is

598
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: the game plan, that is the thinking right now.

599
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 3: For him As a center, well, I mean he's got

600
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 3: the athletic prowess to play anywhere.

601
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's one of the luxuries. Bad enough.

602
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 3: He's big enough, strong enough, agile enough, looks switched on

603
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 3: enough to be able to get it all together.

604
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 2: Center's really hard. Defensively, you're very You have.

605
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 1: To be a very as a defender.

606
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 3: You mean as against and well both both, but as

607
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 3: a defender you are a critical part in communicating what's

608
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 3: going on. You've got a bit more time, so you've

609
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 3: got vision, so you've got to make decisions around you know,

610
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 3: you know the numbers you have where you are on

611
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 3: the field. So it's a really nuanced position.

612
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 2: That's thirteen. Yes, so senator's called thirteen. Yeah.

613
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: At center, you're calling defensive positions. You're saying, hang on,

614
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: move across here. You mean, from that point of view

615
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: as a team that's not called the team manager, but

616
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: as a defensive manager like full back and rugby league

617
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: is that person because he's always direking the position or

618
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: she if its general w but where he's drenking everyone

619
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: into position because they can see everything from there. But

620
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: you're saying center and rugby union is really important in

621
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: that regard. Yeah, yeah, I think so. Wow, that's interesting.

622
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: So therefore center is like a sort of like a

623
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: spine player for rugby union.

624
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like I mean the thing, I don't want

625
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 3: to say, you have to have those positions, but you know,

626
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 3: I mentioned those guys up front because if you don't

627
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 3: have a good set piece, you're not going to win

628
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 3: test Rugby mentioned your nine to ten, the quarterbacks of

629
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 3: the game, they get the most touches, most hands on

630
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 3: the ball, so that's obviously going to be a spine position.

631
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 3: And then your communication from yet you're back three, all

632
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 3: your centers, and I'm not saying it's solely a thirteen

633
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 3: or it's solely a twelve. We saw Israel go through

634
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 3: the wing. His first debut was on the wing, scores

635
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 3: a double in you know, Alliance test match. So he

636
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 3: went through the wing, went to fullback, tried center, so

637
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,719
Speaker 3: he was moving around a fair bit as well. So

638
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 3: I'm not saying any one of those positions, but if

639
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 3: you have a strong enough personality in and around that,

640
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 3: but without doubt, you're three and your number four or

641
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: five are critical just in terms of a set piece.

642
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: So is it do you think it's important in raby

643
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: union to have I don't like using the word because

644
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: rugby union is even more worry about this sort of stuff,

645
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: but like can enforce up front? Oh mate, I'd love

646
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: to have an enforcer in every team. Yeah, like someone

647
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: and enforce of being someone. Everybody's going shit, I don't

648
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: last thing I want to do is have to pack

649
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: down against this guy or run at this guy or

650
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: have him run at me.

651
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

652
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think I think Bobby Valentini is our

653
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 3: number six or eight at the moments becoming that for

654
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 3: Australia traditionally a Whye Cliff, Parlou Toddai Kefu, guys like that.

655
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 3: But I think, like growing up, I remember almost going

656
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 3: to play club rugby and the Wallabies sometimes had to

657
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 3: come back down and play club rugby. And there was

658
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 3: a player, Dan Vickerman, big second row up and he

659
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 3: was a guy that just took people like me out

660
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 3: around the ruck. So if I'm trying to get a

661
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 3: turnover or turn over the ball, I would have been

662
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 3: you know, eighteen nineteen at this point and this is

663
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 3: what this guy did and he you know, would break

664
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 3: guy's ribs, he'd hit you. And this was when the

665
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 3: game there was a bit there wasn't camera angles on

666
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 3: every play like there is now, so you could get

667
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:15,479
Speaker 3: away with a little bit more.

668
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, big guy, Yeah, like one of the big locks,

669
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 2: you know, big locks. And that was his role, just

670
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: to find you at a run.

671
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 3: And I'm like, before the game, I'm thinking, and I'm

672
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 3: playing for man leaguers going to I think he was

673
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 3: Sydney Union player. You're thinking, like he's taking up mental

674
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 3: space before you've even played the game. Yeah, and you're

675
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 3: looking for him, Well you're looking for him, or if

676
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:39,479
Speaker 3: you're not, and he finds you in the game, well

677
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 3: you're definitely looking for him after that. So, without doubt,

678
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 3: I think there's a place for that. And you know,

679
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 3: that's a tough thing with all these you know, contact

680
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 3: rules and height rules and everything like that, is you

681
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 3: don't want the game to you don't want the big

682
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 3: man to be taken out of the game, and we're fine.

683
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 3: I think rugby union more than rugby league's tough because

684
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 3: the game's played a lot at different levels. You know,

685
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 3: you've got the balls played on the ground, you know

686
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 3: whereas rugby league is much more up and down the field,

687
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 3: but rugby union like you could probably slow mow every

688
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 3: ruck and that'd be head contact. So how do you

689
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 3: get that balance right? Because you don't want to take

690
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:15,479
Speaker 3: the big man out of the game, because that's what

691
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:16,479
Speaker 3: makes it awesome.

692
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: Because that's one of the things I wanted to talk

693
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: to you about. I mean, rules, there's a lot of

694
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: rules in ruby. You and I get confused. But if

695
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,719
Speaker 1: the point you just made about big men, what's interesting

696
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: about that? And and by the way, Joseph Swalley actually

697
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: suffered this in the State of Origin game because he's

698
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: he's six foot five and he tackled someone who's much

699
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: much smaller whether he could could have pulled out of

700
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: the tackle or not, but end up having head contact.

701
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: And that was his last State of Origin. He only

702
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: played ten minutes. You never had to play the rest

703
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: of the game. And Joseph is not a vindictive style

704
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: of person. That's not his go as far as you know,

705
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: I've observed. But it was just by virtual of the fact,

706
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: a little bit of carelessness, but by virtually the fact

707
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 1: he's very big, big guy on smaller guy. Rugby Uni

708
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: you can't tackle above here above the nipple right.

709
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 3: At club level you can there's a bit more as

710
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 3: a bit more at a test level. Yeah, but if

711
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 3: there's any chin yeah, strife esally so do you.

712
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: Think that.

713
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: It's not an as not as interesting a game because

714
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: it's a contact game. If the big men can't do

715
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: their thing and take some risk at that, there might

716
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: be some head knock. In other words, I'm a big guy,

717
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: I'm six foot five. I try to tackle you. You're

718
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: not six foot five. There's a risk in there that

719
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: I can't adjust because you might just fall down a

720
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: little bit, and I can't just quick enough because all

721
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: this stuff's in a split second. My god, like, these

722
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: things happen so fast, and then I might accidentally hit you.

723
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: Do you think there's too much of that and rugby therefore,

724
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: as a result of that, to me, rules around that stuff,

725
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: cards you're off for the game, teams down a player.

726
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean safety needs to be first and foremant.

727
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: How do we balance this stuff up there?

728
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 3: But you're putting yourself onto the field in a contact sport,

729
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 3: so there's going to be an element of risk and

730
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 3: going to be an element of getting it wrong. Like

731
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 3: you said, there's no perfect way to balance a guy

732
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 3: that's five foot nothing and a guy.

733
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 2: That's six foot six.

734
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 3: There's going to be some disparity there now in terms

735
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 3: of the recklessness, and you take a risk, you make

736
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 3: a call, well, you've got to try and make sure

737
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 3: that calls right. That's like trying to take a shot

738
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 3: at goal. You've got to you've got to aim up

739
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 3: and make sure it goes between the sticks. I think

740
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 3: it's the same with getting a shot appropriately, and I

741
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 3: think it can be played safe. But we've also got

742
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 3: to accept the fact that as soon as you are

743
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: running into each other at full pace, there's an element

744
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 3: of risk and an element of things that you can't control. Yeah,

745
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 3: boots slips out, you know. Unfortunately the Reese Waltz, there's

746
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,239
Speaker 3: definitely slippage before Sullly did his, so, you know, and

747
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 3: saying that, I think he surely though, made the decision

748
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 3: to try and iron him out and hit him in

749
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 3: the right spot, but at that pace, and but it

750
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 3: just didn't work out that way. And it was and

751
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 3: it was a shocking one to see. But in terms

752
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 3: of like a perfect storm, it was it was that

753
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 3: I mean, had Reese Walsh carried it the right height.

754
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 3: It's one of the hits of the century. Unfortunately it's

755
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 3: the hit of the century with all the wrong sort

756
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 3: of marrings about it. But there's got to be an

757
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 3: acceptance of, you know, a rugby accident. That happens. But

758
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 3: I think that was probably that was dealt with probably

759
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 3: the right way.

760
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 1: I think so, except that I don't think it was reckless.

761
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: I don't think there was any like. You can either

762
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: say an individual intended to hurt somebody and we don't

763
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: know what anyone's intent is because we can't look in

764
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: their brain, but or they were reckless to the outcome.

765
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 3: I think he was pretty It was pretty clear he

766
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 3: was trying to get a hold of him, but he

767
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 3: wasn't trying to head and he.

768
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: Totally was trying to him out, but hit him in

769
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: the chest as opposed to him in the head. The

770
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: question becomes it becomes a value judgment. Then the referee

771
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: makes a decision, actually climate a decision that as far

772
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 1: as he was concerned, it was either intentional or reckless.

773
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 1: Either way you're off. But then the game just completely turns.

774
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: We don't have in Reragul league where you have in

775
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: Reaby Union, I think it's like ten or twenty minutes

776
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: later you can send a replacement on.

777
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 2: Yep.

778
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. Is that it just a test level or is

779
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: that everything across everything? So which makes sense that that's

780
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 1: to me quite a sensible thing. I mean in raby

781
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: leion needs to think about that sort of stuff. But

782
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, the game is

783
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: a game of entertainment, and who are we entertaining. We're

784
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: entertaining the audience, the spectators, and half the audience. Let's

785
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 1: make the assumption, but half the audience goes on, half

786
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 1: the audience goes the other team, especially in the state

787
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: of origin for example. So therefore it's unfair for the

788
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 1: audience to some extent because we didn't see the contest

789
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: we wanted to see. We wanted to see at least

790
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: see thirteen or thirteen or fifteen or fifteen. I don't

791
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: want to see fourteen versus fifteen, And I don't even

792
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: care if it's twenty minutes, because that twenty minutes turns

793
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: the game. So if you're if you're in fourteen, you're

794
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: playing against fifteen. Even if you get a replacement player

795
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: on comes back on is it twenty minutes.

796
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, twenty minutes. Yea, my legs are gone.

797
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 3: It's so if the player, if the player goes off

798
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 3: and it's deemed a red card, so he will get

799
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 3: a yellow card, which is ten minutes. And if they

800
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 3: go no, no, that's the severity is worse than that,

801
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,280
Speaker 3: he can't come back on. You can bring a different

802
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:16,760
Speaker 3: player on after that twenty minutes.

803
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: After twenty minutes. So during the twenty minute period, the

804
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: fourteen side is that they're cooking their legs and every

805
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 1: other part of their body, especially if you're up front,

806
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: so you're getting cooked. The guy comes on fresh, then

807
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 1: you do the person comes on fresh and say, okay,

808
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: it's good, but it doesn't account for the forteen other

809
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: players that are just completely stuffed. So all of a sudden,

810
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: I have a and this is a general question I

811
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: want to put you about rugby union. These sorts of

812
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: rules can affect the audience's affection for the game, and

813
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 1: as a result of using you lose audience. Audience migrates

814
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: to something else. You go watch something else because they

815
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: love sports, so they go somewhere else. And once you

816
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: get lashed onto something else, it's hard to get them

817
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 1: back and game snood audiences. That's where you make your

818
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: money because you know you sell. You sell the audience

819
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 1: to the advertiser. The advertiser page the money, the money

820
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: pays the players. Players get attracted to play the game

821
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: because they're going to get pay good money. Takes Joseph

822
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: out because he's like he's a way outsider in terms

823
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: of what he gets paid. But the rest of the players.

824
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: If you want to get the best game possible here

825
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: in Australia, you've got to play the players. Pay the

826
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 1: players the best amount of money they can get. Otherwise

827
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: they're going to play rugby league. A playerfl when their

828
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: little kids apparents everybody doing that for William cricket you

829
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: a top of a cricket players really pays really well.

830
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: So and a lot of these players can either play

831
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: rugby league and play aflor they can play rugby union,

832
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: they can play cricket too. I don't know what the

833
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: hell it is, but a lot of sports people you

834
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 1: probably can play good golf and imagine being play tenners

835
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: on golf or cricket. I mean, there's something weird about

836
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: sportsman athletes that can do everything pretty much. So what

837
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: do you think the state of rugby union is, then

838
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: do they need to just chill out a little bit

839
00:37:58,960 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: and relax a bit.

840
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 3: Well, I think there needs to be a level of

841
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,399
Speaker 3: acceptance that it's a dangerous game that you can try

842
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 3: and make safer. So what I mean by that is

843
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 3: you're like you're running into each other at full pace.

844
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 3: There's an element of risk, but that's kind of why

845
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 3: guys play it, Aside from some of the I meant,

846
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 3: some guys over in Dubai just in the last week.

847
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 3: They're forty five playing rugby still just casual ats love it,

848
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 3: the contact, the camaraderie, all that stuff. There's something about

849
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 3: it that draw, you know, people are drawn to it.

850
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 3: So there's an element of risk, like there is going

851
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 3: in the surf, jumping in your car, all that sort

852
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,399
Speaker 3: of stuff, and you can always choose not to play it. Now,

853
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 3: in terms of the product, I also don't want to

854
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 3: see a product where Reese Walsh's getting that and happening often,

855
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 3: you know. So I think that that happened in the

856
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 3: first game, but it ended up being a remarkable series

857
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 3: and I don't know, actually I wouldn't know the stats

858
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 3: around the second and third game. But I don't remember

859
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 3: there being a significant one like that. Again enough so

860
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 3: the players adjust and manage and get maybe and there

861
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 3: was no shortage of intact in that third game. Bloody hell,

862
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 3: Like those guys are taking years off their lives. A remarkable,

863
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 3: remarkable game to watch. One of the best contact sports

864
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 3: games I've seen, that third third one, one of the toughest.

865
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 3: Oh it's incredible, you know.

866
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: So they have a good product. Okay, yeah, good product.

867
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 1: That's got rugby union. What does rugby union got to

868
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: do to get an equivalent product?

869
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 2: Okay?

870
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 3: So su Ali He's game in England was a pretty

871
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 3: good product, his first his debut down to the wire,

872
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 3: good contest.

873
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 1: Soft hands too amazing.

874
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got great finess, doesn't he.

875
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: He jumps up and just handle the ball over like

876
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: literally put it into his hands like that.

877
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 3: Can I just talk on that week like that is

878
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 3: a big test, Like that's a big test, no matter

879
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 3: what you're talking about.

880
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 2: Playing at Twickenham, it's always a big test. But to

881
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 2: do that.

882
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 3: Without playing a professional game of rugby union, Yeah, he's

883
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 3: played massive games of rugby league and whatnot. As a

884
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 3: debut game at in a tough spot, we're talking about

885
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 3: the s as being a tough spot and he's got

886
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 3: some great communicators around him in some of the players

887
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 3: with him, Lenny Katau particularly and Andrew Kellaway in that backfield.

888
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 3: But that was an incredible performance, you know out the

889
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 3: gate like that was remarkable.

890
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: Actually, and a lot of people I know saying they

891
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,240
Speaker 1: want to watch the next game because of that, because

892
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: a we won. That helps you.

893
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 2: But but also I've beating the Poms.

894
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: We do and we haven't been doing it very often,

895
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 1: but you know, winners agrinners, as you know, but watching

896
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: a lot of people watch the second game because of

897
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: hoping that just would be selected or at least get

898
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: off the bench and play, which he did. But like

899
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: that's that. Do you think this is a strategic move

900
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 1: then by rugby unions, the austrain rugby union, that is

901
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: a strategic way of getting people back to the rugby

902
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: union games, yep, or signing him for that matter. I mean,

903
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: is this a master stroke by Hamish mcclennan, Like, is

904
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: it a master stroke of signing up some one like

905
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,479
Speaker 1: that and having a lot of vision that this guy

906
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,760
Speaker 1: could well bring the people back to the game.

907
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 3: I mean, if it does do you think it will do?

908
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 3: I think it will. I think he's going to be

909
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 3: a star in the game. I think is physically too good,

910
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 3: not too but then injury, how the team functions. We

911
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 3: know that one guy can't carry a team in union

912
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 3: or league or a AFL, so you've got to have

913
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 3: a good team around you. They're starting to see some

914
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 3: great shoots in that team, well coached, starting to get confident,

915
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,839
Speaker 3: so things like that. The thing that we know we've

916
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 3: got coming is lines is a massive injection of cash

917
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 3: and interest in the country for rugby union. And then

918
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 3: you've got a home World Cup which is just no

919
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 3: home Work Cup twenty seven twenty seven, so the team

920
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 3: has time to build. So that's the third biggest event

921
00:41:55,239 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 3: in the world behind you know, Soctball Cup viewership, viewership, Yeah,

922
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 3: so massive, massive thing coming into our country in that time.

923
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 3: So it's a hugely exciting one. Now he's surely you're

924
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 3: going to be a big part of that. Well, all

925
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 3: signs point to yes of what's been done in a

926
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 3: very short period of time, But then there's so many factors,

927
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 3: you know, within that. I don't think he's signed till

928
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 3: twenty twenty seven I'm not sure.

929
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 2: If he years. If he is, like he's got a

930
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 2: five year deal, Oh okay, then he is. So you

931
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 2: know he's got to be managed well.

932
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 3: I think, you know, you take a look at some

933
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 3: of our you know, other codes around the world or

934
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 3: codes in our own country who manage top line play

935
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 3: as well. We can't just expect him to play eighty

936
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 3: minutes every week, train hard, blah blah blah. How can

937
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 3: we get the best out of him? And you know,

938
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 3: Joe Schmid, who's at the top at the moment, who's

939
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 3: the Wallaby coach, has a really good understanding of that.

940
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 3: Coming from an island background. He managed to do that

941
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 3: with an island team and turn them into a well

942
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 3: managed unit. So hopefully that that's able to be done

943
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 3: with Joseph alongside other key spine guys like we talked

944
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 3: about earlier.

945
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: So if Australia, how do we get I mean, I

946
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: mean I had Oils Stevie Oyles and he didn't hold back.

947
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: But how do we improve rugby union like at every level? Now,

948
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 1: let's take it right down from you know, winning games

949
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: at the on the global level the Australian side, then

950
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: down into the you know the war Tars, et cetera,

951
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: then down into Rotars, Brumbies and all the other sides,

952
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: and then bring it down to the club level, but

953
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: then bring it down to the school level so that

954
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 1: rugby union can attract the best possible talent, because like

955
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: AFL has got a big march on both rugby league

956
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 1: and rugby union. Like in terms of New South Wales

957
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 1: in particular, you know that a lot of schools don't

958
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: they play soccer or AFL, They don't play rugby league

959
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: or rugby union. The private schools still do at Midley,

960
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: but how do we turn that around a fil in

961
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: some of the private schools.

962
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 2: Now, that's what for me thirty.

963
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: Is But is it because parent? Is it because I'd

964
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: like to get your view on this. Is it because

965
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 1: parents are starting to think both games rugby league and

966
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: rebunion are too violent or too much contact? And therefore

967
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 1: does that actually mean is correct that we should stop

968
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: the tackling no matter what that's such that it might

969
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 1: cause a head injury.

970
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 3: Time will tell in terms of what the impact of

971
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 3: head injury is going to be. No one actually knows

972
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 3: for certain. There's definitely elements of you know that contact

973
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 3: to the head's going to have an adverse effect on

974
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 3: your body, like many other things. But how that impacts

975
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 3: individuals and how that all works within the ecosystem of

976
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 3: someone's actual life, you know. I think time will tell

977
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 3: on that, and hopefully we can get a clearer understanding

978
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 3: and that might be the actual thing that you know,

979
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 3: tips it in the.

980
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 2: Right or the wrong way.

981
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 3: But until that point, it's everyone's own decision, everyone's body,

982
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,399
Speaker 3: and everyone's way of going about their lives. There's plenty

983
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,439
Speaker 3: of risk out there, and risk usually leads to fun

984
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 3: being hard, you know, to a certain extent. If you

985
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 3: don't take any risk, you're sitting in your house in

986
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 3: a bubble.

987
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 1: But parents made the decision when the kids are young.

988
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 1: So your parents made a decision about you. You're going

989
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: to play footy because that's what your dad did and

990
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: you're part of the manly scene. Blah blah blah. But

991
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: you're if let's say your mom said we should he

992
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 1: said to your dad in relation to Michael, are you listen,

993
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: I don't want him to grab you know, brain damage.

994
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: He's going to play AFL, He's going to play soccer.

995
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 3: Well, AFL is not a click I understand that soccer,

996
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 3: they can't head her anymore.

997
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 2: So, but they.

998
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,919
Speaker 1: AFL promoted as being less contact. But by the way,

999
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: this is just as many concussions in AFL. This is

1000
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,959
Speaker 1: a Ruby League and Roby Union. But let's just let's

1001
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: just hypothetical. Mum says. Mum says, we're going to he's

1002
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: going to play soccer. School's got soccer. You would never

1003
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 1: have got to it. You got to a rugby union obviously,

1004
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: because you start off for soccer and you become part

1005
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: of a soccer thing. You might play for Australian in the.

1006
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 2: Fat so it's probably fair.

1007
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: They might not definitely not so so. And then therefore

1008
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: Raby Union would have missed out on Mike Loper, which

1009
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: means they missed out on a player, a good player,

1010
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: you know, an Australian player, which means they've got less

1011
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: resources to excel. What So therefore I think both for

1012
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: Robulara and for Roby Union to less. We said AFL

1013
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 1: that all this discussion about concussion, and by the way,

1014
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 1: it's very important, don't get me wrong. It could be

1015
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: an ex extential threat to the game relative to Australia,

1016
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,280
Speaker 1: how we play, how we recruit and how we play

1017
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: the game compared to say, say Argentina, or say compared

1018
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 1: to Ireland, if it's not as big an issue. And

1019
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's as big as an issue

1020
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: in those joints those countries. What we see here and

1021
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 1: the more the media gets onto it, the media is

1022
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: making a big thing of it at the moment, like

1023
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: it's become the latest and greatest discussion. And I, you know,

1024
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 1: and I see some neurologists now starting to talk about

1025
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: it about you know, CTE and all these sorts of things.

1026
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 1: But at the same time, you've got to the game's

1027
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: got is an aggressive game, it's a contact game. You

1028
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: gotta have that because the audience love that. It's an arena.

1029
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: It is like this, It is putting gladiators in a room.

1030
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: For me watching rugby union, I love rugby union. When

1031
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 1: like that's tough, forwards are really just bashing each other.

1032
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:34,439
Speaker 1: It's because you know, it's vicarious. It's not me doing it,

1033
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 1: it's watching them do it. I get pleasure out of that.

1034
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: Sounds ridiculous. I don't know what it is, but I do.

1035
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 1: How do you balance this stuff up? What are you

1036
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: going to? What do you say? What would you be

1037
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: saying because you're you're you're just fresh out of the game.

1038
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,720
Speaker 2: I think the I can see you've got a few injuries.

1039
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: I'm looking at your left you're right here here, that's

1040
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: like it's definitely Caulifler. The right one is about the

1041
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 1: same left front. You've got a few scars of the

1042
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: top of your head. You got a nice cross on

1043
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: the top of your head, like it looks like like

1044
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: someone's gone away their swashbuckling pioneer.

1045
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 2: Or the eyebrows of copped it mate, they're going to

1046
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 2: be rolled over soon. The eyebrows.

1047
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 1: You get a few scars going down. Yeah, yeah, I

1048
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: suppose you know you've been in the midst of it.

1049
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: What do you think about the ex extential threat to

1050
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:17,760
Speaker 1: the game that you love.

1051
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 3: The game that I love. Yeah, it's it's a real challenge.

1052
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 3: I think that the steps that are being taken are

1053
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 3: really important. The management of head knocks has been even

1054
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 3: in my short time, you know, in the last fifteen years,

1055
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 3: has changed remarkably, And that's that's fantastic. The idea that

1056
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 3: if someone gets ahead knock, that it's not frowned upon,

1057
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 3: that they go hey, like I'm not right and to

1058
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 3: really be supported through that process to get them back

1059
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 3: on the field that they're not having repetitive injuries or

1060
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 3: brain injuries. I think that's that's really important. I think

1061
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 3: there's got to be objective measures done on the impacts

1062
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 3: and ongoing. How you do that is going to be

1063
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 3: the challenge because you can't get any of the results

1064
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 3: until someone's post mortem a lot of the time, Right's

1065
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 3: g for sure, Yeah, yeah, for that sort of thing.

1066
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 3: So you know, until that point, you know, how can

1067
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 3: you how can you manage you know, they've brought out

1068
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 3: mouthguards that test can cut or impacts.

1069
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, the guys that they're they're they're they measure every impact, yes,

1070
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: and in a sense got a little censor and sends

1071
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: it back to a control center.

1072
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 3: Which again is not perfect yet because what might affect

1073
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 3: you may not affect me, or what affects me might

1074
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 3: not affect you. So how does the threshold become safe?

1075
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 1: But they can build up baselines for you, okay, and

1076
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: they can say, okay, Michael got knocked out and he

1077
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: was sick for three weeks vomiting with about migrain headaches

1078
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: as a result of this level of impact. Mark got

1079
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: hit the same level of impact. But they didn't have

1080
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: the same effect on Mark. Therefore, for Michael, we've gore

1081
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: have watched when he trains. Next time he gets hit

1082
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: like that, we've got to pull him aside and say, Okay,

1083
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: you're not playing this weekend.

1084
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 2: So really lean on data there.

1085
00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: It's data driven you and you've got to build up that.

1086
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: It's not universal databas data a relation to yourself in

1087
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: the individuals, and I think that's great. I'm all for it.

1088
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: By the way, I'm not against it. I'm all for

1089
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: modernizing the game.

1090
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 2: I'm trying.

1091
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to kill the game, but modernize the

1092
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: game around the contact. Because this game, your game, the

1093
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: Ruguy League game, is about contact. It's not about guys

1094
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: making breaks. It's we love the contact. We want to

1095
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: see a clean contact. Yeah, you want to see clean contact.

1096
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 1: Otherwise you go watch UFC, which again is like a

1097
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: product to go see it for a certain reason. But

1098
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 1: you want to see someone gets you know, smashed in

1099
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: union or.

1100
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 3: League cleanly dominators. Yes, that's like and that's great, that's

1101
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 3: the feeling you want.

1102
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 2: Like the one.

1103
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've talked about it a bit, but that hits

1104
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 3: not the one We want to see the one in Origin,

1105
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 3: So you want to see a clean one because then

1106
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 3: everyone's back up, they're bouncing their feet. You've got fourteen

1107
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 3: or thirteen or fifteen players still on the field and

1108
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 3: the contest goes on and then that just then it

1109
00:50:57,560 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 3: becomes the back and forth like we saw in the

1110
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:03,319
Speaker 3: third Origin. So yeah, it's of course it's going to

1111
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:04,839
Speaker 3: be a threat, and it should be a threat, and

1112
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 3: hopefully like threat to anything. And you can tell me

1113
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 3: because you know of your time through business and everything

1114
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 3: that you've done, but challengers. Hopefully then you sharpen the

1115
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 3: knife for sharpened the sword, and it becomes a better product,

1116
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 3: to cleaner product, are safer, but without you losing its core.

1117
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 3: And then talking about well, what's the perception or what's

1118
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:27,360
Speaker 3: the sentiment around this, Well, don't shy away from the

1119
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,359
Speaker 3: fact that these are contact sports. There are a contact sport.

1120
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 3: That's why guys and girls like playing it. That's the

1121
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 3: element of it. And within there there's some risk and

1122
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 3: we're working our best to make that safe. But there

1123
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,240
Speaker 3: is risk, and you know, like you jump in a car,

1124
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 3: you're playing on the field knowingly of some of that.

1125
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: Risk because it's interesting and I've been reflecting on this

1126
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 1: for a while now, and I think rugby league has

1127
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 1: actually has actually I don't know if they did it

1128
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: on purpose, but it has adapted to this process of

1129
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: what public opinion is and rugby league has become, which

1130
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: is why we're getting a lot more Islander players playing

1131
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:08,879
Speaker 1: the game or fit into the game a lot better.

1132
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:10,919
Speaker 1: So if you get back twenty five thirty years ago

1133
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 1: or even back further, it was just big tough guys,

1134
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 1: you know, sloing it out against each other. There was

1135
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 1: nowhere near the athleticism that we have today. But a

1136
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 1: lot of the Islander boys they're big, tall fellows. They're strong,

1137
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 1: they're very athletic, they can sort of run fast, they

1138
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: can size step, they can pass a ball, they got

1139
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 1: great eye hand coordination, and the game is sort of

1140
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 1: adapted to suit them because it's gone away from that

1141
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 1: heavy duty clash, which is sort of so now I

1142
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 1: think the spectator is more interested and somehow, I don't

1143
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 1: know who's done it, but somehow we've been sort of

1144
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: pushed around to be more interested in the athleticism of

1145
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: the game and what this particularly great athlete can do

1146
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 1: once he or she gets outside a player or can

1147
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:58,760
Speaker 1: put a ball on the inside like beautiful soft hands

1148
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: into another play going three gap. You know, that's a

1149
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: de Esco type player, those sorts of guys. Do you

1150
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: think is rugby union starting to move into that? Watching

1151
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 1: the beautiful player as opposed to a beautiful game, you know,

1152
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: the beautiful player like you know, like it is the

1153
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: Joseph hu Ali. Is that like wonderful athletes who can

1154
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:23,839
Speaker 1: just turn on a sixpence as opposed to the tough

1155
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: basses like you and those guys who are jamming up

1156
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,839
Speaker 1: the front all the time and just getting belted left

1157
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 1: ryan center. Is that the future rugby union as a

1158
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:34,320
Speaker 1: spectator sport.

1159
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think so, I think and I hope not.

1160
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 3: And the reason I hope not is that rugby fits

1161
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 3: in the short, fat stubby guy and Israel Philao into

1162
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,879
Speaker 3: the game and as And that's the really difficult thing

1163
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:52,359
Speaker 3: with you know, the argument of the entertainment side of things.

1164
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 2: And you know.

1165
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 3: What the game of rugby is, because yes, scrums. You know,

1166
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 3: I've sat on the side of a lot of scrums.

1167
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 3: And it's boring to be on the field when you've

1168
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 3: got a lot of repacks and there's ten minutes which

1169
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,720
Speaker 3: is an eighth of the game that's spent on repacking

1170
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 3: a scrum.

1171
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not a great product.

1172
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 3: Or there's line outs and they're confusing around what the

1173
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 3: what the penalty's blown for because it's a lot of

1174
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 3: the time left to interpretation. But within that you're fitting

1175
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 3: different athletes who are really critical. So you can have

1176
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,879
Speaker 3: Israel flour Sua Lee, you know, Whend will come back

1177
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 3: and Lottie come back, all fit them in the same

1178
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 3: back line. But if they're scrum sucks, they're going to

1179
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 3: have a really tough day of the office. I don't

1180
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:30,360
Speaker 3: care who you are.

1181
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: If you sitting out there doing nothing, and.

1182
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 3: That, you know, lends itself to the next thing, and

1183
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 3: that's you know what we took what are probably a

1184
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 3: thread of you know, all the codes in Australia are

1185
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 3: but you know when rugby union isn't doing well is

1186
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 3: it's not fast enough, it's not enough enough ball in playtime.

1187
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,879
Speaker 3: So you know, test rugby thirty to forty minutes. Forty

1188
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 3: minutes would be a lot of ball in play rugby time,

1189
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,800
Speaker 3: whereas league averages over fifty minutes I believe, or something

1190
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 3: around that number. So in terms of actually action happening

1191
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 3: on the field, there's a but I remember playing in

1192
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 3: a game. It was a Test series against I think

1193
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 3: it was the French back in twenty fourteen. We beat

1194
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 3: them well in the first Test. In the second test

1195
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 3: I think we might have won nine to six and

1196
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 3: not a try score in the game. So three penalties

1197
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 3: for us, two for them. We win, and the papers

1198
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,439
Speaker 3: the next morning, ago media, the media are going, this

1199
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 3: is what a shocking game, what a boring and outing

1200
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 3: for both teams, for spectator, for a spectator, everything like that,

1201
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 3: And yeah, okay, I can sympathize.

1202
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 2: In the UK it was what an arm wrestle, you know,

1203
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 2: what an absolute.

1204
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 3: Physical Australian media comparatively to the UK. The UK I

1205
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 3: remember because someone sent me going, you know, and I

1206
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 3: saw the article. Oh geez, that can be And I'm

1207
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 3: not having a crack at Australian media. But what we've

1208
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 3: got here is three codes playing consecutively across the course

1209
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 3: of the weekend. And if you have a game like that,

1210
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:55,760
Speaker 3: and then you see a rugby league or an AFL

1211
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 3: game with over one hundred points and league, you know

1212
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 3: a lot of tries scored that oh, there wasn't even

1213
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 3: a try scored in this game and it can be

1214
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 3: an easy right, can't it that?

1215
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 2: You know this game's boring? Could?

1216
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 1: Could that be an explanation therefore? Why you know, England,

1217
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 1: Ireland in Wales become much better relative to Australia because

1218
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: the style of the game and the dynamics of the

1219
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 1: game are much more acceptable over there than they are

1220
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 1: here because you know, like you say, like you can

1221
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:29,279
Speaker 1: watch a fast moving rugby league game here, you can

1222
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 1: watch an AFL game back and forth, like just literally

1223
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: up and down the field all day. You know, they

1224
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 1: run all round twenty everyone runs twenty odd commetters a game,

1225
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,879
Speaker 1: so there's lots of movement. Do you think that might

1226
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 1: be a reason why when not as popular in rugby

1227
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:47,760
Speaker 1: union terms for audiences and for recruitment as say the UK, France,

1228
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: Ireland particularly Ireland.

1229
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:51,879
Speaker 2: Is well, I mean there's less codes over there.

1230
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Less to choose from, You're

1231
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 1: less to choose from. Therefore that as a result being

1232
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 1: less to choose from, you much more patient as an

1233
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 1: audience and media. You're much more patient in terms of

1234
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 1: what I've what you're prepared to allowed to happen in

1235
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 1: the game because you're not saying and we can go

1236
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 1: down the road and watch a game of AFL because

1237
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 1: it's really quick and I can watch it, you know,

1238
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 1: because all of us have got ADHD all audiences these days,

1239
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: because we've got so many things going on. We've got Instagram,

1240
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 1: the bother, this going on, WhatsApp, going on a conversation

1241
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 1: with her, the game, We're sending a message to their friends,

1242
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 1: you know, they were all sort of on it the

1243
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 1: whole time. So do you think that Australia is suffering

1244
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: because you have too many choices in relatives Australian rugby?

1245
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that. You know, Steve

1246
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,120
Speaker 3: I think went pretty hard when he was here. Steve

1247
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 3: Hoyle was yeah, and look, I think there's been a

1248
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 3: range of reasons why we haven't made There's been a

1249
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 3: couple of things that have happened. We were very successful

1250
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 3: late nineties or early nineties, late nineties, early two thousands,

1251
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 3: and since then a lot of teams have caught up,

1252
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 3: caught up to Australia, New Zealand, England really through that time.

1253
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 3: So it's now teams one to ten World Rugby are

1254
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 3: really solid. So we've gone through this sort of patch

1255
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 3: of winning fifty to fifty percent, you know in international

1256
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 3: and I think, you know Steve talking about the super

1257
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 3: rugby teams, I think that balance of the amount of

1258
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 3: rugby teams, so you get more players playing together, you're

1259
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 3: the competition up, you know, Like I think, I reflect

1260
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 3: on my own career, the times that I was playing

1261
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:25,480
Speaker 3: my best rugby was when I was in risk or

1262
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 3: jeopardy of losing my position. Really yeah, like you know,

1263
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 3: that's what you need within I mean, you could say

1264
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 3: that in any any sports. So did we get too

1265
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 3: thin across that period, I don't know, but I think,

1266
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 3: you know, if you're having a forward looking looking focuses,

1267
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 3: which is what we need to do in rugby in

1268
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 3: the country. But unfortunately the Melbourne Rebels are now no longer.

1269
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 3: But you've said all that team's been dispersed now to

1270
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 3: all the other teams, so now you've got a closer

1271
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 3: I guess you've got more competition for less spots, which

1272
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 3: in my opinion can only create, you know, a good outcome.

1273
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 3: So I think we'll see next year some of the

1274
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 3: super rugby teams doing really, really well because you've just

1275
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 3: the push. It's not it's a compounding effect, like you know,

1276
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 3: it's not a one plus one or it's you and

1277
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:14,439
Speaker 3: me going for the same position. It's okay, we're going

1278
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 3: for the same position. It's not get a little bit better.

1279
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 3: We'll both get a lot better. And I think that's

1280
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 3: what we're going to see happen.

1281
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 1: So if that's interesting. You say about the Melbourne So

1282
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 1: you're saying less teams is actually better.

1283
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 3: Well, I'm saying the right amount of teams is okay, right,

1284
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 3: An I'm not saying less is better, yes, because then

1285
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 3: you'd say one team is good, But I don't think

1286
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 3: that's the that's what we'd want.

1287
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 1: So no, And is it? And do you think it's

1288
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:41,280
Speaker 1: important that we play we have in super Rugby, we

1289
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 1: have teams coming out of rugby cities or rugby states,

1290
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 1: as opposed to trying to jam something into Melbourne, which

1291
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:49,959
Speaker 1: is not really a rugby and in place.

1292
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 3: I'm actually interested in your opinion on this because we

1293
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 3: are a country flooded with different options, you know, So

1294
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 3: in terms of a business thing, do you stick to

1295
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 3: where you're strong? Do you try and spread Australia thinks

1296
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 3: you you know, Australian rugby or we've tried so long

1297
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 3: to capture the West and it's bloody hard to.

1298
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 2: Capture the West, you know.

1299
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 3: I mean AFL has done well to get get in

1300
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 3: there with GWS, but you know, certainly rugby league strain

1301
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 3: you know, as a good stranglehold on that area. So

1302
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 3: you know, you potentially you go out broad or you

1303
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 3: go outside and do you lose where you're strong. And

1304
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 3: I'm not saying we've done that or that's what's happening

1305
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 3: or should happen. But there's almost a question to TV

1306
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 3: TV does drive it.

1307
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 1: It's like so like so audiences in Melbourne are important

1308
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 1: to broadcasters because broadcasts are just sting to broadcasters in

1309
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 1: Now I'm broadcasting something on at prime time, I need

1310
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 1: to be able to collect the Melbourne audience. Like rugby league,

1311
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:50,240
Speaker 1: for example, is a good example. You know they want

1312
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 1: to have you watch rugby league. If you look at

1313
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: the way the draw goes for Friday night games, you

1314
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 1: get a lot of Brisbane games because Brisbani play a

1315
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 1: lot of nights on Friday nights. Because Queensland has love

1316
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 1: rugby league and they really good patrons of the game

1317
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 1: on television so that drives a lot more eyeballs onto

1318
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: the TV show on Friday nights, which means a lot

1319
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 1: more advertising, so the broadcaster does much better. So I

1320
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 1: can understand the dough comes from the broadcaster for all

1321
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 1: the most of these games regular AFL reby union, of course,

1322
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 1: so you've got to sort of try and win over

1323
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 1: the broadcast in terms of the money they're going to

1324
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 1: give you broadcast rights, so you've got sort of they

1325
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 1: sort of nearly insist on having a Victorian team so

1326
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 1: that you can get people in Victoria watching the game.

1327
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 1: I sort of understand that part, but equally I agree

1328
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 1: with what you're saying too, though, well, I think you're

1329
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 1: saying with more a question to me. I think, but

1330
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 1: should we just concentrate on the territory we are in

1331
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:49,080
Speaker 1: already and be really good at that own it, because

1332
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: the moment you start looking at another territory like Victoria,

1333
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 1: you're going to lose some of your attention to where

1334
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 1: you've already been good at. And the moment you do that,

1335
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 1: someone's going to come and try and cut your lunch

1336
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 1: and try and get it underneath you, which what the

1337
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: AFL has been doing. They're just I don't know, they've

1338
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 1: got a bigger check book. They've just been better than

1339
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: everyone at it. And they're everywhere. They're in the schools

1340
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 1: or in New South Wales, aro out the west of Sydney.

1341
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 1: Now they're very good at building the narrative that is

1342
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 1: less dangerous. There's less contact, but there's just so many

1343
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 1: head injuries.

1344
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 3: Well you're actually getting tackled from three to sixty. Yeah,

1345
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 3: So the good thing with the rugby league and union

1346
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,480
Speaker 3: is it's up and down. I know you're bracing your

1347
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 3: next you're getting prepared. Unless you're getting a which we've

1348
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 3: all had a good shot from the side, someone just

1349
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 3: makes a great read and you don't see it coming.

1350
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 3: They're the horrible ones, but that would happen a lot

1351
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 3: in AFL. You get tackled from behind or you're going

1352
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 3: you're playing low, you get you see a lot of

1353
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:39,959
Speaker 3: the ones that get their head on hips when they're

1354
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 3: challenging for the ball on the ground. So again you're

1355
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 3: still crossing a white line with contact sport. There's a

1356
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 3: risk there. But yeah, to your point, I'd love to

1357
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:52,960
Speaker 3: know what the ants would be for all the codes,

1358
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,920
Speaker 3: and I often wonder with the rugby league rugby union thing.

1359
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I think there's totally a place where they

1360
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 3: can feed off each other. You know, you can a

1361
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 3: market is a market Mark going to come back to

1362
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 3: rugby union and is a swillly you're going to go

1363
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 3: back to league and you know, can there ever be

1364
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 3: a game where there's a cross code game or run

1365
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 3: off the back of each other? You know, I think

1366
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 3: there's totally an environment where, you know, more eyeballs can

1367
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 3: be put on if you utilize both of them in

1368
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 3: the right way that suits. I mean, right now, the

1369
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:27,000
Speaker 3: currently it's it's it's a it's a boxing it's a

1370
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 3: twelve round boxing match where it's you know, rugby league

1371
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 3: versus rugby union. But I think it's one of those

1372
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 3: ones where co you know, they can coexist and bounce

1373
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 3: off each other.

1374
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:37,600
Speaker 1: Basically they feels in enemy your what you're saying, I

1375
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 1: didn't say that, Yes, yes you did. So you're involved

1376
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 1: with recovery. What's what you're an ambassad from what you

1377
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 1: deal with you.

1378
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 3: As initially investor and then as I'm starting to work

1379
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 3: out what the next chapter is, Yeah, I'm doing some

1380
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 3: workers their health, eye performance and well want to sci

1381
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:59,040
Speaker 3: plane recovery Recovery is two things.

1382
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 2: First sip. First of all, it's a couple of things.

1383
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 1: Now, first with someone's go cv I, r cv I recovery.

1384
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it was recovery. We rebranded for a couple

1385
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 3: of reasons due to Payton's in the US. But yeah,

1386
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 3: it's a retail for high performance and wellness. So sauna,

1387
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 3: ice bath, you know, compression float tanks, hyperbaric chamber, some

1388
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 3: reoxing machines which help with VO two. So right, a

1389
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:33,080
Speaker 3: range of services there that you know has started in

1390
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:36,320
Speaker 3: Couldie with Stephen Hoyles in twenty nineteen, has since gone

1391
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 3: to Cronulla, Manly and soon to be in the CBD

1392
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 3: just off Martin Place there and the US and Toronto.

1393
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 1: So I think, isn't it La?

1394
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 2: Is it a c on La Homosa Beach? So opening

1395
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 2: host of beach next year?

1396
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:48,760
Speaker 1: Right? Next year?

1397
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 2: Right?

1398
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 1: And who's behind it now? I mean who's behind Recovery

1399
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 1: the business itself?

1400
01:04:56,040 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 3: So the three founders Steve Hoyles, Nick Bardetta and Trevor Fowss.

1401
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:03,640
Speaker 1: And trev Elson being the Trevvelson from Investable Yes, so

1402
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 1: he's got a fund, yes, and he's a man Randy

1403
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 1: supporter isn't he? Is he a Rondy supporter.

1404
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 3: He's originally through the through the Queensland, but yeah, he's

1405
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 3: been here for for He's part of the Randwick mafia.

1406
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 1: Now yeah, mafia corect and And I notice that there's

1407
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 1: a strong franchise in the one in Kuji. Is that

1408
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 1: part of it is the idea to get a plarties

1409
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 1: which is the strong franchise plarties type business as part

1410
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: of the recovery systems in other words, and you can

1411
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 1: go and do a plarties class and then walk straight

1412
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 1: into the recovery. Is that part of what's going on there?

1413
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 1: Is that the thinking?

1414
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 3: So two different models, so strong franchise based yep, but

1415
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 3: that was forty five that Stephen managed and managed for

1416
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 3: years and have now changed too strong right, So but

1417
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 3: that's not the intention with every site, you know. I

1418
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 3: think the other the other side of things that that

1419
01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:57,640
Speaker 3: recovery is doing is a powered by recovery. So we've

1420
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 3: got a mobile unit that will go around until events.

1421
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 3: Yeah cold bath, yeah, cold bath sauna, so that hopefully

1422
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:05,680
Speaker 3: going over to the mobile mobile units.

1423
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 1: So wow, they've gone a bag of a trailer so yeah, yeah.

1424
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that'll be that'll be interesting.

1425
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:11,560
Speaker 3: And then a lot of buildings with their end of

1426
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 3: trip facilities wanting wanting to give their employees wellness so

1427
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 3: we can come in and consult and do some bespoke

1428
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:22,880
Speaker 3: for business. And we've actually put one in Strong Polarates

1429
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:26,160
Speaker 3: up up in Queensland as well, so that's great. We've

1430
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 3: just launched a hydration product as well, so.

1431
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 1: Bits of drink obviously, yeah.

1432
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:31,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, sash at the moment and soon to be ready to.

1433
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 1: Drink as in as in sodium, potassium and magnesium. Is

1434
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:38,480
Speaker 1: that we're talking about? Yeah, any sugar.

1435
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 2: No sugar, mate, good man.

1436
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:44,880
Speaker 1: I'm glad about that because that's important, just having those

1437
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:49,440
Speaker 1: three salts too, because hydration is such a big deal,

1438
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 1: especially if I'm going to sit money in for its horns. Yeah,

1439
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:54,439
Speaker 1: I'm going to walk out de hydrated. So I've tried

1440
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 1: the one that's Goujie Weills invited me and my sign up.

1441
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:01,600
Speaker 1: Then we went up there and I'm not never sure

1442
01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 1: whether I should go infrared water second, or so go

1443
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 1: the cold plunge and go to the infrared. What's your

1444
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:10,560
Speaker 1: go to?

1445
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 2: Well, I mean the traditional, So we try and do

1446
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 2: the traditional or is it infrared.

1447
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 1: So you get warm up first.

1448
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:18,080
Speaker 3: So I mean, well, it depends what you want to

1449
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,840
Speaker 3: get out of it, right, So I think the morning,

1450
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 3: like a lot of people like to finish on cold.

1451
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 3: So do your hot and then finish on cold. But

1452
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 3: what we see is, you know, within the half an

1453
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 3: hour or hour slots is people go hot to cold,

1454
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 3: hot to cold or or you know, a lot of

1455
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 3: I think, you know, my mum and my wife included,

1456
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 3: like to finish on hot because they want to come

1457
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:38,640
Speaker 3: out of their freezing.

1458
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 1: See that's funny, guys. I went we went hot cold, No,

1459
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 1: it's we went cold, hot and cold.

1460
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 2: And the pain first straight into the cold because to.

1461
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:55,720
Speaker 1: Get into that. So we got in and but I

1462
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:58,320
Speaker 1: actually felt a bit cold for the for a couple

1463
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:00,400
Speaker 1: more hours. It took me because I like, it took

1464
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:02,120
Speaker 1: me a bit of time my blood to get back

1465
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 1: into my system. But I felt amazing, like I felt

1466
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 1: like I just leapt for ten hours. My body felt

1467
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:13,960
Speaker 1: really good, like really good. Yeah, and I was only

1468
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:15,960
Speaker 1: in the water for maybe I don't know, three or

1469
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 1: four minutes.

1470
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:17,559
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1471
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. And my hand I couldn't put my hands in

1472
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:22,600
Speaker 1: because I've got bad I thros and my thumbs and

1473
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:24,920
Speaker 1: I could really feel it when I put my hands,

1474
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 1: so I actually had a bit girly. Not to say,

1475
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:30,720
Speaker 1: girls do this, but I was being a girl. I

1476
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:33,080
Speaker 1: have my hand out of the water and just sort

1477
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:34,840
Speaker 1: of above the water, I should say, but I had

1478
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:37,840
Speaker 1: the rest of my body in it, and I think,

1479
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:40,680
Speaker 1: you know what's amazing for me is that all of

1480
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 1: a sudden, there are certain people in this in this

1481
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:45,639
Speaker 1: world and in particular in our country, and people I'm

1482
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:47,559
Speaker 1: talking to. It becomes so much more aware of the

1483
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:51,760
Speaker 1: importance of these sorts of testing yourself, pushing yourself to

1484
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,640
Speaker 1: do something you actually don't really feel like doing, like

1485
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:57,599
Speaker 1: getting in a cold punch. I think it was three

1486
01:08:57,680 --> 01:08:59,559
Speaker 1: or four degrees would it be about right? Yeah, yeah,

1487
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:02,320
Speaker 1: three or four degrees water. I mean, just the thought

1488
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:06,200
Speaker 1: of it and how it's good for your mentality. I

1489
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 1: actually felt, I know, I'm not dear to I'm not

1490
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 1: your you know town cryer for I don't get paid again.

1491
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:19,720
Speaker 1: I'm not getting paid anything by recovery this, but this

1492
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:21,840
Speaker 1: is the reality of whether it was recovery, is cold

1493
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:23,960
Speaker 1: plunge or anyone else cold punch? Well, so much I

1494
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 1: bought myself on so I bought a cold punch. So

1495
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:30,120
Speaker 1: the feeling that I get from it was amazing, like

1496
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:34,679
Speaker 1: my mental feeling. Physically, I felt pretty good. I don't

1497
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,640
Speaker 1: know if it really took away my arthritis or inflammation.

1498
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:39,599
Speaker 1: It did for a short period of time for sure,

1499
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 1: but I got a mental clarity out of it that

1500
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 1: the cold mostly I felt amazing. The infraredsuner, I think

1501
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:50,120
Speaker 1: for me is better for physically. It's really good for

1502
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 1: me physically. It makes me feel quite better the next

1503
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 1: day that I sleep better that night and I feel

1504
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:56,720
Speaker 1: better the next day. But the cold has got to

1505
01:09:56,880 --> 01:09:59,360
Speaker 1: give me a mental clarity. What do you get from it?

1506
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:01,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, that So, I mean I hated it for

1507
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:02,840
Speaker 2: the majority of my career.

1508
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:05,320
Speaker 3: Towards the back end, I go, okay, well, not that

1509
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:08,559
Speaker 3: I finish old or anything like that in terms of

1510
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 3: a rugby player, but I needed to start if I

1511
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:13,400
Speaker 3: wanted to train how I wanted to play, and I

1512
01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:15,280
Speaker 3: wanted to just be consistent on the field, and I

1513
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 3: felt like I needed to start upping that.

1514
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:19,160
Speaker 2: And so I mean there was certainly, you know, it's

1515
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 2: good for the inflammation.

1516
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:22,680
Speaker 3: It gives you that, you know, a bit of a

1517
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:25,799
Speaker 3: physiology boost, like when you get out there and doorphins

1518
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 3: seem to kick.

1519
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:29,800
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think that what you're saying. You know,

1520
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, yeah, like in a weird way.

1521
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:32,760
Speaker 1: It's weird.

1522
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:35,599
Speaker 2: I did that. I did that. Yeah, got it feel good?

1523
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 2: You feel parted.

1524
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 3: So I mean, ideally like if you can have an

1525
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 3: if particularly you've got your own but cold in the

1526
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:43,559
Speaker 3: morning because your body's heating up. So your body's cool overnight,

1527
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:45,599
Speaker 3: let you sleep and your body starts heating up as

1528
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 3: the day goes on. So you want to you want

1529
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 3: to sort of get in the cold in the morning

1530
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:52,439
Speaker 3: and allow it to heat up. And I mean, don't

1531
01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:54,960
Speaker 3: just jump in the cold and then you know, sit

1532
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:57,360
Speaker 3: down for ages, do some movement after go for a walk,

1533
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 3: get the body moving, the muscles moving, and should just

1534
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:01,000
Speaker 3: feel like for a couple of hours.

1535
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 2: And that's proven. You know.

1536
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:04,200
Speaker 3: I think one of the things with COVID is people

1537
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:07,200
Speaker 3: you know, really started to look at the longevity side

1538
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:10,120
Speaker 3: of things and what can they do aside from you know,

1539
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:11,320
Speaker 3: once they get back out.

1540
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:13,639
Speaker 2: There to make them feel better and you stay healthy.

1541
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:16,360
Speaker 3: And then sauna at night's great, so it will heat

1542
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:18,640
Speaker 3: you up, but your body's going through this pattern of

1543
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:20,799
Speaker 3: where you're starting to cool down and get ready for sleep,

1544
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:24,599
Speaker 3: So it almost spikes that that feeling and that sensation,

1545
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:28,120
Speaker 3: and you know, when you sweat again, releases in doorphins,

1546
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:31,840
Speaker 3: gets your toxins out, everything like that. So yeah, that's

1547
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 3: sort of you can definitely do them complimentary because it

1548
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:37,920
Speaker 3: gives you that shock and that change. But yeah, if

1549
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:39,720
Speaker 3: you had to choose one at either side of the day,

1550
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 3: you'd go with that.

1551
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:42,960
Speaker 1: And did you ever think would you ever thought yourself

1552
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:46,080
Speaker 1: if you go back to when you're twenty twelve, thirteen

1553
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:49,000
Speaker 1: years ago, nineteen twenty, that you would be having this

1554
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 1: conversation talking about cold plunge, not because you would have

1555
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 1: done nice bas for training or after games and stuff

1556
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:01,559
Speaker 1: like that, but his career that you be talking about

1557
01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:05,200
Speaker 1: inference horners and dumb ice baths or cold plunge for

1558
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:10,280
Speaker 1: mental mental recovery, physical recovery. No outside of footy.

1559
01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:12,479
Speaker 3: No, and go for a surf, We'll go hang out

1560
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 3: with my mates. Not so yeah, I have yeah a

1561
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:17,960
Speaker 3: few too many beersh Yeah. No, I've got a sawn

1562
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:18,599
Speaker 3: in my backyard.

1563
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:18,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1564
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:21,519
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, not only is a good place

1565
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:24,479
Speaker 3: to feel good and everything, but we got two young kids.

1566
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:25,760
Speaker 3: So me and my wife jump in there at the

1567
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 3: end of the day and just have a debrief on

1568
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 3: the on the ship that they give us, you know,

1569
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 3: after they finally get put down at night.

1570
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:34,680
Speaker 2: So no, there's there's some great benefits to it.

1571
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 1: And and just finally, I mean, because you're in the

1572
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 1: you're in this game. Now, how often to get their

1573
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:44,760
Speaker 1: proper health benefits out of a sauna? How let's call

1574
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:46,639
Speaker 1: it an inference one for the moment. How many times

1575
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:47,519
Speaker 1: a week do you need to do it?

1576
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:47,840
Speaker 2: Now?

1577
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:50,160
Speaker 1: For how long? What? What is a sort of recommended period?

1578
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:53,719
Speaker 2: Well, there's a I mean, there's a couple of different

1579
01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 2: ways to look at it.

1580
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:57,439
Speaker 3: So there's you know, your humans of the world give

1581
01:12:57,479 --> 01:12:59,880
Speaker 3: out great information on that, and they're the they're the standard,

1582
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:02,720
Speaker 3: and he does a lot around you know that sort

1583
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:04,760
Speaker 3: of stuff. So there's there's different ways to do it.

1584
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,400
Speaker 3: So to do it you know less, but you do

1585
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:08,720
Speaker 3: a bigger hit.

1586
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:10,719
Speaker 1: So is it for thirty minutes or forty minutes?

1587
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:12,560
Speaker 3: Well yeah, yeah, but you could almost you can do

1588
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:15,000
Speaker 3: like a twenty minute, have a little rinse, go back in,

1589
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 3: do another twenty minutes, have a rinse, and you know,

1590
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:21,640
Speaker 3: finish off or you know shorter whatever time works or do.

1591
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:23,920
Speaker 3: You can do fifteen minutes a day daily, but your

1592
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:27,760
Speaker 3: body does pick up a little bit of a resilience,

1593
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:30,479
Speaker 3: but it gets used to tis yeah, a little bit,

1594
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:33,880
Speaker 3: yeah tolerance perfect. Yeah, So I think in terms of

1595
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:35,920
Speaker 3: an ice bath, and this is again a human and

1596
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:37,960
Speaker 3: I'm probably going to get this wrong, and you know

1597
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:40,320
Speaker 3: people can say that, but it's like a total of

1598
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:43,080
Speaker 3: twelve minutes a week and that'll give you that that's

1599
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:46,840
Speaker 3: your minimum effective dose of cold bath. So if you're

1600
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:49,439
Speaker 3: doing cold and the cold things interesting, like it seems

1601
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:51,840
Speaker 3: that with the recovery facilities, guys like to get it

1602
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:55,240
Speaker 3: really cold because it's the it's the test. But it

1603
01:13:55,320 --> 01:13:57,280
Speaker 3: doesn't it needs to be cold enough that you get

1604
01:13:57,320 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 3: a shock when you jump into it. You get that

1605
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:01,479
Speaker 3: it does need to be three It doesn't need to

1606
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:04,120
Speaker 3: be three good degrees. But what we've seen and what

1607
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:05,760
Speaker 3: you know, being in a footy team, when you get

1608
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:09,160
Speaker 3: it really cold, guys like you know, yeah, yeah, so

1609
01:14:10,360 --> 01:14:12,120
Speaker 3: yeah it's three degrees. You can go and tell everyone

1610
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:13,880
Speaker 3: it's three degrees. You know, there's that part of it,

1611
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:16,639
Speaker 3: but no, it's just getting that that sort of tour

1612
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 3: and you can get that cold shower and you know,

1613
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 3: all going in the ocean at certain times the year,

1614
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:23,880
Speaker 3: they'll give you that effect. But yeah, twelve minutes across

1615
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:25,439
Speaker 3: the course of a week should should do you.

1616
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 1: And finally, just on Hope Barrick, just what does hyperbaric chamber?

1617
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:33,240
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's explain what we're talking about dye.

1618
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:37,200
Speaker 2: So you put yourself into a high, high oxygen needed environment.

1619
01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:39,000
Speaker 1: So you just explain what it looks like.

1620
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 3: I mean, well, the ones that we have in our facilities,

1621
01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:43,679
Speaker 3: and they can look different, but we have I mean, mate,

1622
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 3: it's like sitting in it's sitting in this chair effectively

1623
01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:48,639
Speaker 3: that you can recline in, but it's a little dome

1624
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:51,920
Speaker 3: around you, and you climb a little desk. Yeah and closed,

1625
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:54,519
Speaker 3: so you know, you shut this thing. You put a

1626
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:58,400
Speaker 3: sort of a bar over the top, and your press

1627
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 3: start and it just starts filling with oxygen. It's kind

1628
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:03,120
Speaker 3: of like feels like you're going up in a plane,

1629
01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:06,760
Speaker 3: so ears or pop. It feels it to yeah, like

1630
01:15:07,400 --> 01:15:10,559
Speaker 3: a fully oxygenated environment and the purpose and the pressure

1631
01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:12,760
Speaker 3: goes up like it would in a plane. The point

1632
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:14,360
Speaker 3: of it is to oxygenate your blood more than you

1633
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:17,240
Speaker 3: would in you know, normal day to day and that

1634
01:15:17,479 --> 01:15:20,800
Speaker 3: just improves getting that part or red blood cells to

1635
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:23,200
Speaker 3: different parts of the body more which carry the oxygen,

1636
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:28,120
Speaker 3: which carry the oxygen more. So really good for chronic injury,

1637
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:32,240
Speaker 3: really good for sleep. I used it a fair bit.

1638
01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:34,560
Speaker 3: I had some calf and achilles tendon issue, so I

1639
01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:36,280
Speaker 3: was in there two to three times a week to

1640
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:38,320
Speaker 3: try and speed up that recovery process.

1641
01:15:38,439 --> 01:15:39,639
Speaker 2: Really good for post surgery.

1642
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:44,679
Speaker 3: So yeah, big, big in Japan, and a good study

1643
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:48,280
Speaker 3: in Japan, like yeah, that type of environment. So yeah,

1644
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:51,799
Speaker 3: it's it's it's that's a really really popular product.

1645
01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:54,880
Speaker 1: Well I'm not going to buy Harper a better chamber,

1646
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:56,599
Speaker 1: but I've been thinking about it, to be honest. I mean,

1647
01:15:56,920 --> 01:15:58,599
Speaker 1: I don't know if the respence, I would have a clue,

1648
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:00,240
Speaker 1: but I haven't be thinking about it because you know,

1649
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:02,120
Speaker 1: when you have to manage. I got a million injuries

1650
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 1: that are accumulated over many years and a body, well used,

1651
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:11,800
Speaker 1: body will used, well lived in. But I'm I want

1652
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:14,160
Speaker 1: to say thank you, legend, and you are a legend.

1653
01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:16,120
Speaker 1: Thanks very much for coming into the show today and

1654
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:19,720
Speaker 1: all the best with the recovery and and are you

1655
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 1: going to take over when Oils he goes to America.

1656
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: We've announced that he's a Randwick coach.

1657
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:27,760
Speaker 2: By the way, No, he's gone, he's gone, he's gone.

1658
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:30,200
Speaker 2: He's good because I don't want to any trouble. No,

1659
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:32,160
Speaker 2: he's over there.

1660
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:34,080
Speaker 1: But you're going to take over Romwick.

1661
01:16:34,479 --> 01:16:36,760
Speaker 2: I'm not taking over Ramwick. No, No, I'll be I'll

1662
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:37,679
Speaker 2: be staying in my lane.

1663
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:39,880
Speaker 3: They're going to go and be spreading the you know,

1664
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:42,280
Speaker 3: doing their rugby thing and spreading the love over there

1665
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:46,000
Speaker 3: in America and opening up the Toronto and La facilities.

1666
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:48,320
Speaker 3: But yeah, very much. It's a great thing about the

1667
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:50,760
Speaker 3: rugby community. Great thing about when you you know, are

1668
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:53,519
Speaker 3: thinking about transitioning and what that sort of is going

1669
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:55,840
Speaker 3: to look like post a career or whether that you know,

1670
01:16:55,960 --> 01:16:59,760
Speaker 3: I am in post career moment at the moment. But yeah,

1671
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:02,320
Speaker 3: you get a great network, a great bunch of people

1672
01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 3: that are willing to help if you ask, and happy

1673
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:05,679
Speaker 3: to keep you involved.

1674
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:08,160
Speaker 1: So that's true. By the way, the rugby union community

1675
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:08,880
Speaker 1: is very tight.

1676
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:11,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think sport community is in general.

1677
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:15,080
Speaker 3: I'm being involved with a few things post career that

1678
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 3: you know, athletes and businessmen and you know, whatever you

1679
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:22,200
Speaker 3: all have transitions in life, and I think if you're

1680
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:23,880
Speaker 3: willing to ask for a bit of help and how

1681
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:25,720
Speaker 3: that looks, and keep an open mind like we talk

1682
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 3: about with you know, your siwall, ease of the world

1683
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:31,160
Speaker 3: on the rugby pitch and it's you know, good things

1684
01:17:31,240 --> 01:17:31,719
Speaker 3: can happen.

1685
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:33,200
Speaker 1: Michael Hubert, thanks very much.

1686
01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:35,000
Speaker 2: Thanks, I really appreciate this, but thank you