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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life the average persons never

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Speaker 1: exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys, said,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law.

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Speaker 2: The interviews are raw.

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Speaker 1: And honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of I Cats Killers. Today, I'm

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Speaker 1: speaking to two guests who knew each other when they

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Speaker 1: were younger. Their lives went in separate directions, but a

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Speaker 1: chance meeting years down the track brought them both back

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Speaker 1: together again. They've both experienced the highs and lowers in

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Speaker 1: their lives, but they are resilient and strong. They now

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Speaker 1: share a common purpose in life and are trying to

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Speaker 1: make a difference encouraging boys and men to find purpose

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Speaker 1: in their life and become the best version that they

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Speaker 1: can be. I thought it'd be good to have a

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Speaker 1: chat with both of them and get their take on life.

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Speaker 1: So in the studio today we have former Olympian and

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Speaker 1: World boxing champion Michael Cassidas, who had his sporting peak

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Speaker 1: was living in America hanging out with the likes of

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Speaker 1: Denzil Washington, but he has also experienced horrendous laths, a

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Speaker 1: victim of childhood sexual abuse, drug addiction and incarceration. Our

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Speaker 1: other guest, Marty Cornish, grew up in the Housing Commission

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Speaker 1: with a heroin addicted stepfather. He also got caught up

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Speaker 1: in the wrong crowd. He joined the Army to find

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Speaker 1: a brotherhood and is now focusing on men's mental health

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Speaker 1: and encouraging men to be the best version of themselves.

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Speaker 1: And today I'm looking forward to hearing their stories and

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Speaker 1: find out how they're trying to make a difference in

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Speaker 1: this world. Michael, that's welcome to I Catch Killers.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Gary, it's.

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Speaker 2: Good to good to have you here.

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Speaker 1: I've been a big fan of your your fighting career,

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Speaker 1: so it's great to see you in see you in person.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you.

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Speaker 2: You're looking good.

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Speaker 1: You're looking healthy, yeah, healthy, healthy, yes, staying fit and

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Speaker 1: strong yes yeah, yeah, okay. And we've also got a

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Speaker 1: second guest in the studio today, so it's going to

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Speaker 1: test my skills as a podcast. Marty Cornish, welcome to

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Speaker 1: I Catch Killers.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Gary, it's good too, good to see you too. So Michael, firstly,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you a hard question, but just

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Speaker 1: describe your life. Tell people who you are.

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Speaker 5: I suppose the best way to begin this is to

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Speaker 5: start from the beginning. I had a pretty had a

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Speaker 5: very strong relationship with my brother and our mothers. My

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Speaker 5: mother and father brought us up very well, like they

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Speaker 5: take us all the sporting things, you know, got right

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Speaker 5: behind us, and we were pushed each other along. We

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Speaker 5: both played soccer anyway. So he's got involved in the

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Speaker 5: racing industry and left school grade nine just to follow

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Speaker 5: that ambition, and he ended up becoming one of Australia's

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Speaker 5: best jockeys.

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Speaker 3: And he's basically like he.

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Speaker 5: Was Australian leading jockey and come to the point where

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Speaker 5: we'd push each other in our careers. I'd built up

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Speaker 5: an excellent record at twenty three fights, twenty three wins

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Speaker 5: with twenty one knockouts. One of the most exciting fighters

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Speaker 5: in the world. Fought on all the arenas England. That's

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Speaker 5: when I first won the world title, had successful defenses

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Speaker 5: at mental a Bay. Basically lived in the States for

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Speaker 5: six years, you know, and our relationship was really strong

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Speaker 5: and Stathi being one of Australia's best riders.

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Speaker 3: He made it to the Melbourne Cup.

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Speaker 5: And he was a week out for the Melbourne Cup

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Speaker 5: and I was in a training camp fighting about the

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Speaker 5: fight against the pound for pound best fighter in the

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Speaker 5: world in one Manuel Marquees and he's the guy knocked

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Speaker 5: out Minipatio Fort Floyd Mayweather, an accomplished fighter, and you

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Speaker 5: know that fight was to make me a household name

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Speaker 5: all over the world. Hadn't been home to Australia for

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Speaker 5: like since two thousand and six. This is twenty ten,

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Speaker 5: and I'll get a phone. I was in heavy training camp.

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Speaker 5: So my brother's riding in the Melbourne Cup a week later.

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Speaker 5: In three weeks, I'm fighting as one man your Marquez,

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Speaker 5: and one morning he had a phone call from Brendan.

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Speaker 5: He says, we're in Thailand training camp and he says

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Speaker 5: don't look at your phone, and he said, turn it

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Speaker 5: off and meet me at the gym, and it's really important.

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Speaker 5: I met him at the gym his first thing in

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Speaker 5: the morning, and I knew something was up straight away.

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Speaker 5: And I looked him in the eyes and I said,

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Speaker 5: someone has died, hasn't he And he said, yes, it's

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Speaker 5: your brother. And where I was at that stage in

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Speaker 5: my preparation, that was a really hard thing to have

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Speaker 5: to deal with, having to lose your brother, and you know,

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Speaker 5: and then I had a decision to make there and

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Speaker 5: then whether I would continue with that fight or to

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Speaker 5: go back to the funeral and grieve. You know, hindsight's

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Speaker 5: a wonderful thing, but at the time I decided I

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Speaker 5: did what my brother would have wanted me to do,

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Speaker 5: and you know, and I thought then the best thing

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Speaker 5: was to go on and have the fight, which I

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Speaker 5: did and just about won that fight as well. So

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Speaker 5: I'm one of the only people to put one and

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Speaker 5: your markets on his bums the third round of the fight. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 5: And I was an excellent finisher according to finish him

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Speaker 5: after I dropped him. And one thing that helped me

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Speaker 5: back I could hear the commentators yelling, and he's thinking

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Speaker 5: of his brother, you know, in my past, like I

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Speaker 5: would never dreamed of even thinking I'd just execute. I'm

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Speaker 5: an excellent finisher, That's what I would do anyway, one man,

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Speaker 5: your marquees recovered come back and end up stopping in

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Speaker 5: around nine to that fight, and from there onwards, I

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Speaker 5: just lost the next four fights straight and it's just

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Speaker 5: on a downward spiral started.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting how life can turn so quickly. Like you're

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Speaker 1: describing your brother at the top of his career, at

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Speaker 1: the top of your career, and then you get news

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Speaker 1: like that. We'll talk in more detail about that, but then, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was probably the high high points in your life,

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Speaker 1: the way your life was going. But you're sort of

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Speaker 1: spiraled after that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I suppose, you know, like it was the icing

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Speaker 5: on the cake, so to speak, you know, like the

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Speaker 5: downward spiral that my life went. So I lost the

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Speaker 5: next four fights straight after that. Yeah, you know, at

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Speaker 5: one point my record was unblemish. You know, I was

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Speaker 5: right on top of my game. But that's when all

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Speaker 5: the drugs and the alcohol started and I began using

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Speaker 5: that as a recipe to mask my pain.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a story of story. I've heard a lot here.

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Speaker 1: I saw a lot when I was in the cops,

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Speaker 1: Like what is it about?

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Speaker 2: The drugs?

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Speaker 1: Is about the high and invariably when you strip it down,

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Speaker 1: it's about masking pain that you've vix been in your

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Speaker 1: life will break your life down that further. But Marty

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Speaker 1: about your life.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I guess, you know, taking it back for

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Speaker 4: the start. You know, my mom, who is my best friend,

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Speaker 4: you know, but she gave birth to me at sixteen.

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Speaker 2: Jesus young, isn't Yeah, so you.

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Speaker 4: Know we essentially had a teenager raising a child, and

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Speaker 4: you know that just it provided I guess, you know,

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Speaker 4: she was battling, you know, from the day dot and

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Speaker 4: my father wasn't really in the pitch. I even I

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Speaker 4: went to one of the most wealthy schools in Sydney

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Speaker 4: and I didn't really meet him for the first time

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Speaker 4: until I was seventeen, right, and that provided a void

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Speaker 4: in my stomach. I had an emptiness inside me, and

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Speaker 4: funny enough, I actually meeting for the first time around

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Speaker 4: the time I started boxing at the pc y C.

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Speaker 4: First heard of the name Michael Cassidis in Toomba and

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Speaker 4: even through that period when I was growing up. My

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Speaker 4: mom actually went through her own diversity and coming back

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Speaker 4: to the healing ourselves, and that's exactly what's happening in

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Speaker 4: the household. There was a lot of heroin in the

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Speaker 4: house and as you know, it's it's one of those

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Speaker 4: drugs I've been told where it really master pain, it's

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Speaker 4: really it heals. So my childhood was up until about

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Speaker 4: twelve thirteen when I went to live with my grandparents,

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Speaker 4: who my grandfather's a veteran. It was quite dysfunctional with

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Speaker 4: you know, my stuff would be pawned. You know. I

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Speaker 4: was doing odd jobs to make money because I went

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Speaker 4: to actual a primary school in Neutral Bay. So my

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Speaker 4: mom was trying to send me into a good area,

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Speaker 4: a good area.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you're brought up in housing commission, but trying to

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Speaker 1: steer you in a different direction.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And the thing was like a lot of these kids

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Speaker 4: lived on on the Sydney Harbor, you know, around Cremorne,

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Speaker 4: and I went over to their house and then their cover.

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Speaker 4: They've just got like a lot of these fucking teddy teddies.

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Speaker 1: It must it must be using for at your age,

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Speaker 1: like you see your friends in households like.

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Speaker 2: That, and then you go home and there's syringes and

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Speaker 2: yeah that lane around the house, Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 4: And it was really like because I remember one time

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Speaker 4: I walked into i'll staying up one of these guys,

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Speaker 4: one of the kids from school, and I was so

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Speaker 4: excited just I was like amaze of how much food

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Speaker 4: they had in the cupboard and now like holy shit,

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Speaker 4: like what's going on with this dude. But all of

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Speaker 4: this provided me with a fuel and a deep level

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Speaker 4: of ambition to try and break the cycle, you know.

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Speaker 4: And that's when people go to me or you know,

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Speaker 4: how you so ambitious or you know, where does it

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Speaker 4: kind of come from? If it wasn't for this, it

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Speaker 4: wouldn't have filled me. I don't believe to try and

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Speaker 4: accomplish something in my life.

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Speaker 1: You you told me in conversations that we had that

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Speaker 1: you joined the join the army, looking for a brotherhood,

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Speaker 1: looking to belong to something.

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Speaker 2: That that helped to a degree.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well I really I was living in Sydney, I

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Speaker 4: was walking working a corporate world, but I was just

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Speaker 4: drinking every weekend, you know, not just having six beers.

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Speaker 4: You know, would really work hard and play hard, and

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Speaker 4: I really wanted to force and pose some discipline into

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Speaker 4: my life because I actually applied to get into the

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Speaker 4: army when I was seventeen and I was knocked back,

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Speaker 4: just purelyus to look make go get some life experience,

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Speaker 4: and that was into Womba and you know, but I

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Speaker 4: was twenty three at the time, and I really wanted

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Speaker 4: to test myself. I really was just in this lull

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Speaker 4: in life where I'm like, I need something, I need

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Speaker 4: something to believe in me. I need to find out

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Speaker 4: what I've actually got inside and what I'm capable of.

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Speaker 4: And I also wanted to feel proud of myself, you know,

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Speaker 4: to be able to walk into a room with my

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Speaker 4: shoulders back and say, you know what, I'm a soldier.

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Speaker 4: And I wanted to be able to tell my grandfather,

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Speaker 4: you know, and make him proud as well a man

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Speaker 4: out of respect. So I was really looking for a

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Speaker 4: lot of things in my life that was missing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, understandable why you choose heading to the army. You've

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Speaker 1: got to out of the army, as I understand that.

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Speaker 1: And when you left, your started a business and you're

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Speaker 1: working successful. But in your own words, you said to

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Speaker 1: me you got caught up in your own ego and

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Speaker 1: success and started to become the party boy again, lost

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Speaker 1: your way exactly.

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Speaker 4: And the interesting thing is, as now where seven years

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Speaker 4: past that I look back on it, and you know,

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Speaker 4: people may criticize me for the way that I was,

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Speaker 4: and it wasn't that bad. Like fuck I was just

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Speaker 4: because you know, all of a sudden, for twenty seven

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Speaker 4: years of your life, you've never really done well. You know,

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Speaker 4: you've aspired. And I worked on the business four years

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Speaker 4: and I was around a lot of successful people, and

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Speaker 4: when I finally started to see a little bit of success,

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Speaker 4: you're like, well, I finally did it. But a lot

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Speaker 4: of the people don't understand what it was like in

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Speaker 4: those how's the commission? You know?

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Speaker 2: What was driving your home? I think?

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Speaker 1: And we'll talk talk about Michael's career, and like, success

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Speaker 1: in whether it's business, sport, or whatever you're aspiring to

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Speaker 1: can be a double edged sort, yeah, Like you can

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Speaker 1: lose lose your way, lose perspective on things, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: forget the important things about being a good, good person.

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Speaker 1: And I see it time and time again. We've all

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Speaker 1: got it within us every time. And some of the

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Speaker 1: knockdowns I've had in life, I think they've made me

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Speaker 1: a better person. Because if you don't, you start to

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Speaker 1: believe your own hyah, your own surrounds and yeah, I'm good,

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Speaker 1: I can do this, and yeah we lose lose our way. Michael,

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Speaker 1: let's get back to you, or before we do, how did.

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Speaker 2: You two meet? What's where did you to first meet? Well,

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Speaker 2: I was connected.

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Speaker 5: I wasn't so aware of when I first when Marty

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Speaker 5: first came into my life, because like, I was really

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Speaker 5: passionate about what I did with my boxing and that

255
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Speaker 5: was my addiction, you know, and I would train, take

256
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Speaker 5: classes and train heaps of kids and I was only fifteen.

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Speaker 5: I'd even train the adults as well, and Marty was

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Speaker 5: one of those kids that I would look after. And

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Speaker 5: it's just funny how everything in the world just always

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Speaker 5: comes around like I've you know, and you know, it's

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Speaker 5: just so many stories that go onto that. But you know,

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Speaker 5: water finds at the same level. And then years later,

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Speaker 5: like I'm at a bottle of about to get some groging,

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Speaker 5: and mart he's just like he was so cool.

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Speaker 3: Man, He's just like rolling on around love. Oh my god,

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Speaker 3: it is Michael Kats. He said, He's like.

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Speaker 5: He's balling and he's rolling around and he's just laughing

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Speaker 5: and I can't believe in you and all this. And

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Speaker 5: his mum was with him, which I couldn't even remember

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Speaker 5: till I caught up with her last night. But he

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Speaker 5: told me the stories about how like he would see

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Speaker 5: me and with a flock of people around me all

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Speaker 5: the time, and see this guy that would just going

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Speaker 5: to the gym and to be skipping there and I

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Speaker 5: would always come in and have black eyes and they're

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Speaker 5: just working away, work away, and he just like looked

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Speaker 5: up at me and saw what I was doing and

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Speaker 5: could and saw my career progressed into the world stage.

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Speaker 5: And then I mean, what's your take on it is.

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Speaker 2: That you remember it.

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Speaker 4: I've got a completely different story. Yeah, well it was

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Speaker 4: so I started boxing at the PC YC, and you know,

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Speaker 4: I remember one time looking over and there was just

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Speaker 4: this guy with these mad bruises under his eyes and

285
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Speaker 4: he's like skipping in the dark, and it just had

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Speaker 4: this real rocky vibe about it, you know, like this,

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Speaker 4: and I was like, that's Michael Casidas. That's Michael Casidas.

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Speaker 4: And then you know, about a year later when I

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Speaker 4: turned eight and started going out into WARMBA and there

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Speaker 4: was just this entourage of people around just as swarm,

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Speaker 4: you know, and because there was obviously such a about

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Speaker 4: two hundred thousand people. You know, you've got another limpi

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Speaker 4: in and someone he's a big name.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone wants a piece of him.

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Speaker 4: And this was before America, I believe you're thinking, before

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Speaker 4: we had gone over to it, so he even got

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Speaker 4: way bigger. And you know, the name was just it

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Speaker 4: just carried weight with it, you know, in that town

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Speaker 4: and was renowned for being just this tough dude. And

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Speaker 4: you know, when I ran into him on a Gold

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Speaker 4: Coast at the bottle shop, I said to the bottle

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Speaker 4: shop going, what do you know? Who you know this is?

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Speaker 4: And even my mom and everybody's like, oh, what's going

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Speaker 4: on with Marty? Like you know, it's like and then

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Speaker 4: I came back home that night and I didn't catch anything.

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Speaker 4: Like I put on some casitas like Top five knockouts,

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Speaker 4: you know. And then every time when we started hanging out,

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Speaker 4: because he's like, oh mate, yeah, no dramas, like you know,

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Speaker 4: he goes, here's my number. And then the next day

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Speaker 4: I get this phone call from a number and he goes, oh,

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Speaker 4: it's Michael, Michael who And he goes casitas, he goes

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Speaker 4: come over for like a cup of tea, like a

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Speaker 4: fucking cup of tea. So I drive over to his

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Speaker 4: house just random. Hi, Now I've got to Michael Cassetta's place.

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Speaker 4: And we became mates ever since then, and you know,

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Speaker 4: I got to know him a lot better as a mate.

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Speaker 4: And you know we're talking about doing things together back then,

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Speaker 4: but you know, some things happened.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, the world of that world boxing, they use

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Speaker 1: boxing just as an analogy to pass this message on.

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Speaker 1: I know Michael will get you to talk about this

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Speaker 1: later on. But yeah, when you're a rising star in

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Speaker 1: the boxing world, everyone coming to you and everyone wants

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Speaker 1: a piece of it, be associated with it, just get

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Speaker 1: a photo with you, just be part of the excitement

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Speaker 1: of someone in one of the toughest sports in the

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Speaker 1: world on the rise, and let's have a piece of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: your grown men, businessmen want to be there. Yeah, Michael,

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Speaker 1: he's a good friend of mine. That type of thing

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Speaker 1: at an early age, it must be hard to deal

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Speaker 1: with that adulation and keep you your ego in check

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Speaker 1: and everything else in check.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So like even from the age of fifteen, getting interviewed

335
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Speaker 5: and doing when uses our local news station up there

336
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,520
Speaker 5: and always in the media. You become it's a common

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00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,800
Speaker 5: thing to be talking and having this persona and it

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00:16:54,920 --> 00:17:00,320
Speaker 5: just becomes an everyday thing. It's just business, part of life.

339
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Speaker 5: And then of course as you go along you become

340
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Speaker 5: more successful. You know, it's just business as usual. It

341
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,080
Speaker 5: just becomes a part and part of the past of

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Speaker 5: your life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, and I see with that and use like

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Speaker 1: boxing we're talking here, but the same with footballers, even

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Speaker 1: in the music industry anywhere. You can see how you

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00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,520
Speaker 1: can go off track when you do that. Now you

347
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:30,080
Speaker 1: reached the dizzy heights of world boxing champion, but your

348
00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,240
Speaker 1: career is probably not as well known here in Australia

349
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Speaker 1: as it is in America because you decided to go

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Speaker 1: over and test yourself against the best of the best.

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Speaker 1: But before we step into that there Sydney Olympics, you

352
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Speaker 1: represented the country here, Sydney boy, I was working at

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Speaker 1: the Olympics with the close personal protection and seeing what

354
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Speaker 1: was going on in the thick of it. You guys

355
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Speaker 1: were treated like gods at that stage. An Olympic athlete.

356
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Speaker 1: If you're wandering at wandering Australian tracks with yeah, so.

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Speaker 5: You are so like you know, like I come from

358
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Speaker 5: Timba and you know, like all of a sudden you're

359
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,120
Speaker 5: this is superstar, and like it doesn't really hit you. You

360
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,119
Speaker 5: have these dreams and these aspirations. You want to go

361
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Speaker 5: to the Olympic Games. And then when you actually go

362
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,920
Speaker 5: the Olympic Games, you're like in the forefront and front

363
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Speaker 5: of the world. It's like here Australia saying, here you are,

364
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:18,760
Speaker 5: this is our greatest But you know, and then you

365
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,159
Speaker 5: put up on his pedestal and you know, like just

366
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Speaker 5: to see the go to the opening seramony and people, ah,

367
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Speaker 5: you can just hear this just so like you always

368
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,320
Speaker 5: these little fingers and have people sit trying the cracks

369
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,119
Speaker 5: in the water trying to get like a vision of

370
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:33,919
Speaker 5: us and stuff. And you know, they gave us some

371
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,040
Speaker 5: kangaroos to throw out to the crowd and like they'd

372
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,960
Speaker 5: like swarm all over these people like animals and they're

373
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Speaker 5: like these human beings. It's like they're like I saw

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Speaker 5: it and it's like they're like, you know, like people.

375
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,960
Speaker 5: It was like sofa anyway, it was a really really

376
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Speaker 5: big thing. But Nicki Webster was singing it. I saw

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Speaker 5: how days a grown woman, like things have changed and

378
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,920
Speaker 5: what was the cold chill that played at the opening zeramony?

379
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Speaker 1: But anyway, they're closing ceremony. Coltures will midnight, allay.

380
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 3: That's not all.

381
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was so big and you know, and there

382
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Speaker 5: we were, and so we're performing from the big, big screen.

383
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Speaker 5: I won my first round of the competition against Brazil

384
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,160
Speaker 5: and then I lost by two points to Kazakh Kazakhstan

385
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,399
Speaker 5: and the next fight and it so like you're like

386
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 5: Michael and you're about to become a household name. As

387
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:28,159
Speaker 5: so the psychological side of things, they back then, they

388
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,920
Speaker 5: used to like a briefing and like a debriefing where

389
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 5: you'd have to talk and they just have a check

390
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,680
Speaker 5: in with you. I have no doubt now the way

391
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,399
Speaker 5: that we're evolving as humans and in the sport, that

392
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,400
Speaker 5: there's a much greater role played played on the psychology

393
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,000
Speaker 5: of people in general. You know, when going to the

394
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,840
Speaker 5: Olympics and not going to the Olympics and whatever.

395
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Speaker 1: Disappointments that you get getting, whether Olympics or anything.

396
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,920
Speaker 2: That, yeah, we all aspire to.

397
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Speaker 1: You two guys have formed the friendship, and we'll talk

398
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,679
Speaker 1: about your time in prison too.

399
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,400
Speaker 2: But this was you met.

400
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,240
Speaker 1: Back at the bottle shop after you've got out of

401
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 1: prison or just recently out of prison, and you've you've

402
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 1: formed a bit of a bond here and you want

403
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 1: to help men find the way be resilient. What brought

404
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,359
Speaker 1: you two together on that issue? How did that play out?

405
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 3: Well, we both.

406
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 5: At one stage. Marty was always you know, telling me like,

407
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 5: do you know who you are?

408
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:26,879
Speaker 3: Do you know?

409
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,160
Speaker 5: And trying to encourage me to remember who I am

410
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,399
Speaker 5: and to hold me in the highest light and you know,

411
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,199
Speaker 5: get yourself amongst all the all the good people. And

412
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 5: I just wasn't ready yet. I wasn't ready and like

413
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,960
Speaker 5: my I'd taken this pathway. It's like, to be honest,

414
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 5: it's like I've been sleeping for the last fourteen years,

415
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:46,879
Speaker 5: to be honest.

416
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:48,159
Speaker 2: You know.

417
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 5: It wasn't until you know, I got locked up. You know,

418
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 5: my fingerprints were found. It's a cocaine and I got

419
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,440
Speaker 5: charged with cocaine trafficking and just just basically I wasn't

420
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 5: even living at the house anymore. But the long end

421
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,879
Speaker 5: of the short is that my dirty MIT's getting on

422
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 5: these drugs and things like that, and if I wasn't

423
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,960
Speaker 5: associating with the people that I was associating, I wouldn't

424
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,120
Speaker 5: have been in that position to begin with. And it's

425
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 5: a void that I had, Like I was this world

426
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 5: champion and I could never feel that void. And I

427
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,919
Speaker 5: was constantly looking for something to master the pain and

428
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 5: surround myself with people that make me felt more comfortable,

429
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 5: which is right down there, you know. And it wasn't

430
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 5: up here with the people that I needed to be around.

431
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 5: There was no clarity. I couldn't I didn't have any

432
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 5: sense of direction. And it wasn't until you know, it

433
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 5: took you know, I've got two years jail and what

434
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 5: were were charges cocaine trafficking, and I'm sitting in jail

435
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 5: and I found myself, you know, I had a good, long,

436
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 5: hard think about things, and I thought, fuck, Like, I'm

437
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:47,920
Speaker 5: talking to these guys that I'm in there with and

438
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 5: I could actually relate to them. I could actually see

439
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,479
Speaker 5: there's a lot of trauma in there. There's a lot

440
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 5: of people brought up with it, with a lot of

441
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 5: sexual abuse.

442
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:58,880
Speaker 2: Just just on that.

443
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 1: Michael, And yeah, I've spoken to you about it and

444
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,680
Speaker 1: you said you're comfortable talking about it, but you were

445
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: a victim of child sexual abuse. Yes, And I think

446
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 1: in the conversation that we had, you said you didn't

447
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 1: tell people, you didn't deal with it then and suppressed.

448
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: Do you want to just talk us through through that

449
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 1: aspect of your life because and you identify it in prison.

450
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 1: I know I've spoken to you about it, Marty. So

451
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 1: many people inside have had situations like that and that's

452
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 1: where the anger comes from. And you see these guys,

453
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,640
Speaker 1: big tough, bikey dudes that what's this anger about? They

454
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,679
Speaker 1: just they never want to be a victim again. And

455
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 1: a lot of it steems from this childhood sexual abuse.

456
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,679
Speaker 5: That's right, that's right, and they haven't dealt with the

457
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,919
Speaker 5: trauma associated with that, and then they haven't really been

458
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 5: able to find the right support network. There is support

459
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,360
Speaker 5: out there, there's people that do understand, but at first

460
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,679
Speaker 5: it's been able to identify. It is one thing that

461
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 5: leads to the next, you know, ultimately, like like I've

462
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 5: gone on that pathway like I was. I was always

463
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 5: messed up growing up, and then one thing led to another.

464
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,439
Speaker 5: I've gone down a bad spiral and then when my

465
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 5: brother died, that was the catalyst, and it's just added

466
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 5: to it, and it's smarts in the pain, and I couldn't.

467
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,679
Speaker 5: And it wasn't until I was speaking to a trauma

468
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 5: therapist and and and realizing where where it was all

469
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 5: coming from that that that I could actually identify. And

470
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 5: like he said to me, he said he could tell

471
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 5: straight away. He said, Michael, you just have to stop using.

472
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 5: You have to stop using, you have to stop drinking.

473
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,919
Speaker 5: You know, it's just as clear as that, because they're.

474
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 3: Not going to heal.

475
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 1: But just just to put it in context and perspective,

476
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: how old were you and what happened?

477
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 2: Was someone known to you or yeah, yeah.

478
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 5: So I've just recently found out who it is, and

479
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 5: you know, something that would happen regularly. And I was

480
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 5: having I was having a phone conversation with my partner

481
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 5: of my brother before he died, and I know, I

482
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 5: asked her, I said, it's something that that happened to

483
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 5: start thinking like and she just started crying on a

484
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 5: phone and she said the time enever to tell anyone

485
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 5: about it. And because he was similar to similar to

486
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 5: me in a lot of ways, but also it's just

487
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 5: very kept things to himself.

488
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: Because there's and this is a manipulative side of predators,

489
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: which you call them people that pray on children for

490
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 1: their own sexual gratification. They manipulate it to they make

491
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: it feel like it's something you can't talk about, something

492
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: that you've done wrong, and you carry that. Is that

493
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 1: similar to what happened in your situation?

494
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I guess so.

495
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 5: You know, like like I was just I was just

496
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 5: really messed up, Like I was just messed up about

497
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 5: my ideal about sex and about life and what things are.

498
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 5: You know, it's took away my innocence and you know,

499
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 5: and then later on in life, you know, it's taken

500
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 5: my brother's life as well. It's like if you have

501
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 5: trauma in your life and things that you can't really

502
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 5: comprehend or understand anything about them, and that you don't

503
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 5: even realize that it's happening to you. But the moment

504
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 5: that you find something like like a really good drink

505
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 5: or or a drug that you like, it's like, all

506
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 5: of a sudden, it's just muscle that pain. It's taken away,

507
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 5: and no one really understands. But no one really understands

508
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 5: unless it's a fellow addict, what that feeling is like,

509
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 5: that's the whole weight of It's like everything's just taken away.

510
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 5: From all that, all that pain that you suffered the

511
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,479
Speaker 5: experience of going through that sexual molestation and the trauma,

512
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 5: and then the things as a result that happened after

513
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 5: that as well, that the trouble that you get yourself

514
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 5: into just being messed up and head people and it's

515
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 5: just like a whole massive weight just taking off your shoulders.

516
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 5: That feeling is unreal. And you know, and I can't

517
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 5: say that that I like drinking. I love drinking, you know,

518
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 5: but I can't do it anymore because it's not the

519
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 5: way for me to deal with things. And these are

520
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 5: the things that I related to with other people that

521
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 5: were in prison. They had that similar thing and ultimately, look,

522
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 5: this is what happened. My brother, a talented athlete and

523
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 5: a free course writer with one of the best in Australia,

524
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 5: has found drugs and he loved it and it killed him.

525
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 5: So to that person that molested me, you fucked my life.

526
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 5: I want him to know that. And soon he's going

527
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 5: to know very well, know, even if I can see

528
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 5: him face to face. But I'll get my opportunity. But

529
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 5: the things like, it's not just that, it's my brother,

530
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 5: my mother, my father, and all my family around that.

531
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 3: As well, that they've all suffered as a result of

532
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 3: all this.

533
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 5: And it's not right. It's not right, and it's wrong.

534
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 5: It's wrong what's happened. And you know, look, these things

535
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 5: will get dealt with and I won't deal with it

536
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 5: the way that I used to deal with things and

537
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 5: just go and mask it. I'm clear on my life's

538
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 5: back now. I have clarity, I have directions, I have direction,

539
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 5: I know where I'm going, I know what I want

540
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 5: to do.

541
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: So the person you saw that you looked up to

542
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 1: when you walked in there and there's this tough dude

543
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 1: with his black eyes skimming in the corner, looking everything

544
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: like a scene out of a rocky movie, you wouldn't

545
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: for one moment think there's any pain or any any weakness.

546
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: What you're projecting there is this tough guy that can

547
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: take on the world and don't yeah, don't fuck with me,

548
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: or you're going to pay for it.

549
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 3: Well, you know they say, when you're in the fight,

550
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 3: you know you never show that you're hurting. Yeah, never

551
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 3: show your weaknesses.

552
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Just let's just so people understand the heights

553
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: that you reached in your boxing career. The Olympics and

554
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: then after the Olympics an amateur, then you went professional

555
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: and you wanted to test yourself and you ended up

556
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 1: living in the United States, living in some pretty tough areas.

557
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: Talk us through that experience.

558
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 5: Mate, It was it was meant to be. You know,

559
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 5: like when I was seven years old, I watched the

560
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 5: Rocky movie and you know, and Sylvestera salone and I said,

561
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 5: I said that I planted a seed in my head

562
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 5: that I don't.

563
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 3: Laugh, but it's true. I planted.

564
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 5: I planted a seed in my head that I was

565
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 5: going to be the world champion there and then and

566
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 5: and I loved Rocky. And so I've landed in LA

567
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 5: and I stayed at the Roosevelt Hotel and that very

568
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 5: that very night, I've walked outside. They've got a premiere

569
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 5: for Rocky five, and Sylvester Salon's out there shaking hands

570
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 5: and I shook his hand. What an experience like? I

571
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 5: shook his hand. Years later I met his brother, Frank

572
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 5: Stallone as well. But I felt like getting a chance

573
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 5: of saying, hey, do you know my name used to

574
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 5: be Rocky? Like they called that was my finale, They

575
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 5: called me Rocky. Then they end up making it concedas

576
00:27:58,560 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 5: the great Yeah.

577
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: And so what was it? What was it like going

578
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: in there? Like when I say testing against the world's

579
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: best in that in that day and age, that's where

580
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: all the top fighters went to the US back back

581
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: in those days and probably pretty much still now. It's

582
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: a testing ground. There's some pretty mean, hungry dudes in there,

583
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: or from a little country town in Queensland. And what

584
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 1: makes you think you can take on the people from

585
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: the mean streets of and the Mexicans, like the Mexicans

586
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: and the tough dudes from the US.

587
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 3: No fear, No fear.

588
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 5: It's because fear is a false expectation appearing real f

589
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 5: E a R. And it's just it's that set had

590
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 5: already been planted from a young age. I was always

591
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,239
Speaker 5: going to do well. So that's the same thing with

592
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 5: life now. I'm always going to do well. It didn't

593
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 5: matter who I was in front of it because because

594
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 5: I had a clear goal, I focused on that goal,

595
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 5: I focus on my opponents were in front of me.

596
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 5: So basically, with what we're doing and what mat has

597
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 5: helped me unpack with my mind and with a mindset

598
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 5: coaching that I wanted that I'm helping people out with.

599
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 5: People want to get some sort of confidence and and

600
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 5: and it's and it's the things that the seeds that

601
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 5: you planning your mind from young age, like building that

602
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 5: sort of confidence. And it's not something that you can

603
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 5: get overnight, but I can.

604
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 3: Tell you how. I can show you how to do it.

605
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 5: For example, I've gone from a kid that was who

606
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 5: had been through what I'd been through and too scared

607
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 5: to even throw my right hand. When I went in

608
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 5: for my first fight, I was only could only throw

609
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 5: my left hand. That's all I could throw. I was

610
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 5: too scared until I hit with a big one. Then

611
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 5: it really tested myself and I opened up.

612
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 3: I unleashed.

613
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 5: I won that fight just on points. And then for

614
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 5: my second fight, this is eleven year old, I fought

615
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 5: against a guy called Nicholas Frawley from Harvey Bay, and

616
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 5: he like I'd ate too much fish and chips. I

617
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 5: waited in thirty two point six kilograms, so six hundred

618
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 5: grams over the thirty two.

619
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 3: Kilo big boy.

620
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I thought a guy was thirty five killos,

621
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 5: which you know three point four killers, and that it

622
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 5: was a lot of weight for that. But he could

623
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 5: really fight, and luckily I said to myself, I'm going

624
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 5: to throw both hands and I'm going to go float

625
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 5: out because it was an absolute war.

626
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 3: But he handed it to me. I dished out some

627
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 3: real damage, but I loved it.

628
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 5: I lost that fight, but I gained so much from

629
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 5: it because I put so much into it. And that's right,

630
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 5: that's right. And then so that was a known lesson,

631
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 5: so I'd learned from that. Okay, I want this next fight.

632
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:12,959
Speaker 5: Not only am I going to throw both hands, I'm

633
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 5: going to train better, preparation prior preparation prevents pissporp performance.

634
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 5: I'm going to eat better, so I'm not going to

635
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 5: come in over that thirty two kilo division. I'm going

636
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 5: to run better, and I'm going to make sure that

637
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 5: my stamina's up there. I'm going to really give it,

638
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 5: so my diet and everything's all in check. And the

639
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 5: third fighter had against the guy called Shaw mccolor from

640
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 5: Quilpy and forty Milmern and it was a war because

641
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 5: he was a good fighter, and I won the fight

642
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,959
Speaker 5: and I just give it absolutely everything, flat out. And

643
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 5: after the fight, the crowd has thrown money in the ring.

644
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 5: It's called a shower money shower, and you know, it's

645
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 5: one of them things where as an eleven year old

646
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 5: kid to have people throw money in the ring, so

647
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 5: happy and.

648
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 3: Please with the performance that you put on.

649
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 5: That creates growth and with that growth comes confidence. And

650
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 5: so that's why I can walk around the world and

651
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 5: talk to you know, I was a former criminal.

652
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 3: I can talk to a copper.

653
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 5: I said there at a first place, get nervous talking

654
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 5: the coppers. Not anymore. I've can look you straight in

655
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 5: the eye and I'm happy. I'm clean, i have clarity,

656
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 5: and I have direction, and I have a good purpose

657
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 5: in life.

658
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 3: That that there, It just creates growth.

659
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 5: And that's the message that I want to pass on

660
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 5: to other people and for young aspiring you know, people

661
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 5: that young use. You know, there's a youth christ christ

662
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 5: youth crime crisis going on right now. There's all these

663
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 5: experiences through boxing is so much like life, and I

664
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 5: can pass that message that I've learned on with boxing

665
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 5: to people out there.

666
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,479
Speaker 1: And I think you the test of this, Marty. We

667
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: haven't gone there in the path that Michael has, but

668
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: someone that's walked that path in a such a tough

669
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: field you have you've got to have some respect for it.

670
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: That you must have some strength and resiliency, would you agree?

671
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: Like the messaging that can come from someone that's walked

672
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: the path that Michael has.

673
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 4: One hundred percent. You know, we've got a guy that's

674
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 4: walked out d MGM Grand to a pack stadium. There's

675
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 4: only a handful of guys illustrated, I believe, have done

676
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 4: that in boxing. And then we've got this ultimate levels

677
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 4: of success that only zero point one zero one percent

678
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 4: will achieve. Then we've got this low of trauma prism.

679
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 4: So there's a lot of experience and life lessons in

680
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 4: there that's quite unique. And we've got someone that's trained

681
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 4: at the AIS, he's worked in Colorado at the High

682
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 4: Performance Center, you know, with Cubans and Donner.

683
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 2: So does it really? I believe?

684
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 4: And this is what I said to Michael because I

685
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 4: met him or when I ran into him again at

686
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 4: the Bottle. It was about five years ago, and that

687
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 4: was I think on the start of a bit of

688
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 4: the adversity that was coming, and we were talking about

689
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 4: doing some stuff together again. Like Michael was saying before,

690
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 4: I said, look, you know, mate, you know I know

691
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 4: who you are, I know what you've accomplished, and I

692
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 4: can see your career, that world has come to an end,

693
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 4: and it's got to be hard, as we know for

694
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 4: a lot of a fleets when you lose your purpose,

695
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 4: for a lot of humans, when.

696
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: Your identity, yeah, isn't it.

697
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 4: That's like you know, you've got guys that are doing

698
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 4: anything that you say, and you know all the lights

699
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 4: have and that's all gone one day where you have

700
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 4: a couple of losses and those people you look around,

701
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 4: they're not here anymore.

702
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 3: That's hard.

703
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 4: And even our role players talk about that as well.

704
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 4: You know, people want to get photos with you in

705
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 4: the peak of your career. Then that all kind of

706
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 4: starts to go down.

707
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: And I look, I think people, and we're talking a

708
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: lot about men and women experience the same thing in similar,

709
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: if not slightly different different ways. But I think for

710
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: me and we all go through stages in life you

711
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: want to prove yourself, whether it's your role model, whether

712
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: it's trying to prove yourself to your father or whatever.

713
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: You want to succeed. In the army, there's a pecking order,

714
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: isn't there, And you want to be the best soldier.

715
00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: You want to compete. So the heights that Michael Rowse two,

716
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: and you say point one percent. It probably is that

717
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: because people don't get there that's in the rear. You know,

718
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: they're the outlies that reach reached those heights. But it

719
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: just shows that when it's all stripped back, that we

720
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: still carry these these demons that Michael clearly had. And look,

721
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: talk about your life over there. You were telling me

722
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 1: the story that, yeah, you've been training in the gym

723
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: for six weeks and this bloke kept talking to you

724
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: and all that, and you're sort of fobbing him off,

725
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: and so tell the story.

726
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 5: I say, I was prepared to fight against jail casma

727
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 5: al So we did, like we spit that camp up,

728
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 5: camp up into two.

729
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 3: I did.

730
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 5: I think it was about it would have been like

731
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 5: six weeks in Thailand. Then we went to finish off

732
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 5: the next six weeks in America. And we're trained at

733
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 5: the gym called the Pound for Bound Jim Pound for

734
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 5: Pound Jim on my Bray Avenue there in LA. And

735
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 5: there's this dark guy there has always has watched me.

736
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 5: We can and I talked to him occasionally check in

737
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 5: and stuff like that. And I'm sitting up against the

738
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 5: ropes and I'm you know, and I'm getting my Brandon's

739
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 5: doing my hands up and and he's gone. So he goes, so,

740
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 5: who are you fighting next, kid? And I said, I'm

741
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 5: fighting Joel Cassameo. He goes, oh Joe Cassamo. Huh, I'm

742
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 5: going to have to go to that one, I said.

743
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 5: And I was just looking at him and thinking, I said, mate,

744
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 5: do you know you sound like that Denzel Washing? You

745
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 5: sound just like him? Hey? And he he goes funny,

746
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 5: you should see that anyway. When he walks away, Bretta goes.

747
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 3: Mick, that fuckings Denzel Washington. You're idiot.

748
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 5: You've been talking him for the last six weeks, so

749
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 5: you know they have to support of those guys. I

750
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 5: never seen him on TV, Arnold Swartzenegger sitting like a

751
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 5: love of my fights at that the MGM grand you know,

752
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 5: Maddie Trip from sports bed all the way from Australia.

753
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 5: In the back room when they're picking the gloves, which

754
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 5: one I'm going to fight against? Marcus macOS get a

755
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 5: Mick Hay going. I said, how did you fucking get

756
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 5: in here? The black can get in anywhere, you know,

757
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 5: like he pulls some strings, you know some people. He's

758
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 5: my mate. Maddie Trip mate, he's unreal. But like, this

759
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 5: is the people that were there to support me. Those

760
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 5: are the people the shoulders that I was rubbing with,

761
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 5: like Oscar de la Hoya, you know, like Alexis d Juria,

762
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,919
Speaker 5: you know, like these people John Porta, Joria's daughter.

763
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 3: You know, you're like she's a success.

764
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 5: Like I just connected with so many powerful people and

765
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 5: people to create movies and that's that's where I belong

766
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 5: mix some of those people because I've made it into

767
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 5: that world. I'm hanging with those people and I've come

768
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 5: back to Australia and.

769
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: At that level too, you're getting big verses. So we've

770
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: gold boy, Yeah.

771
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 3: Got who I was. I come back to Australia.

772
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 5: I just forgot completely who I was and just just

773
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 5: went into a dark stump. But it's like I've been

774
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 5: asleep literally for like the last twelve years, you know,

775
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 5: just masking my pain. And I couldn't pick up the

776
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 5: phone and have a conversation or asks for help or

777
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 5: tell anyone about what I was going through because I

778
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 5: didn't even know how to identify it. I just couldn't

779
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 5: see clearly.

780
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: My clarity was good there and look we're not We're

781
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: not psychologists, So we're not professionals in this field, but

782
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: I think we can say, just with life experiences, how

783
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 1: many times blokes are like that, Like you've come back

784
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 1: and you're in the dark place, but you're too proud

785
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: or too stupid or too tough to hand up and go, hey,

786
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: I'm struggling. I was living in the stratosphere up there

787
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: with movie stars and everyone wanted the piece of me.

788
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 1: I was a man, and I've lost some fights, and

789
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: then I've come back here and who am I? You

790
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: used to fight, didn't you? Or Marty? You're looking in

791
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: this field. How helpful do you think it would be

792
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: if someone in Michael's position then actually put his hand

793
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 1: up and said, hey, fuck, I need some help.

794
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, very helpful. You know, we've got a guy here

795
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 4: that you know, like there was a guy that came

796
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 4: through spoke to us last week that's struggling with something similar.

797
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 4: We've just kind of we get caught up in that cycle.

798
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 4: We're drinking on the weekend, a little bit of addiction

799
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 4: here and there. We get out of these bad habits.

800
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 4: So when they come to a guy like Michael, they're

801
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 4: speaking with a guy that's actual. She lived that experience.

802
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 4: And that's the main thing. Like, even when I talk

803
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 4: about mental well being or mental health, I always talk

804
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 4: about a lived experience, you know, through what I've been

805
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 4: through and how I've overcome it. And that's Michael's greatest asset,

806
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 4: you know, he talks from where he's been in their shoes.

807
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well it's that lived experience and yeah, the

808
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: situation you're in, Michael, And I think everyone in different

809
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: stages of their lives find themselves in that way. I'm

810
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: here doing podcasts and not out of the crime scene

811
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: because of what happened to me in the place I

812
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: went from being My identity was a homicide cop. That's

813
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: who I was, and that was taken away overnight, and

814
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 1: I went through dark periods. But I wasn't going to

815
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: put my hand up to anyone and say, hey, I'm struggling,

816
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: and yeah, I'd meet with mates, friends or whatever, how

817
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: you going. We'd make a joke of it and laugh

818
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: it off and go, oh, yeah, I'm a crook now,

819
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: blah blah blah.

820
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 2: Do it that way.

821
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: But a couple of people are respected reached out and said, hey,

822
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: how are you actually dealing with that? And those calls

823
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 1: were so important to me, and those chats were so

824
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: important because instead of the Bravada, yeah, sh it's fine,

825
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: and I go sit at home and go, fuck, what's happened?

826
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 1: How did my life turn upside down? So I think

827
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: it's in a message if Yeah, for blokes, it's all

828
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: right to put your put your.

829
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 2: Hand up and say say you're struggling. And that's a

830
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 2: hard thing to do.

831
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,240
Speaker 5: So you can embrace it and you can move forward,

832
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 5: or you can or you can sit back where it

833
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 5: will happened and just keep going backwards, move forwards.

834
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: What was what was your check when you've had the

835
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: tough childhood, not the ideal situation. You've joined the army,

836
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,240
Speaker 1: you've come out, you've got your business up and running,

837
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: and you're doing a bit of traveling, living the high

838
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: life and high fiving yourself and hey, I'm pretty crash

839
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 1: hot what i'm doing here?

840
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 2: What was your wake up call?

841
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 4: It's hard to point it to one specific thing, but

842
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 4: there was just this constant, I guess feeling inside where

843
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 4: it's like, you know, you can say that you want

844
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 4: this fear life and be ambitious, but if your daily

845
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 4: habits and actions aren't in alignment, you're not in congruency,

846
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 4: and that's where you get the internal conflict, and that's

847
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,839
Speaker 4: where you're not really proud of yourself because you're like, well,

848
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 4: I'm talking a big game, but my actions aren't aligned.

849
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 4: So like my process is simple, like simple, but not

850
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 4: always easy. But we've got to really work out, well,

851
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 4: who do we actually want to be. And when I

852
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 4: worked out who that is, what type of person, values, vision,

853
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 4: personal philosophy, then we go around, well what do I

854
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 4: need to do each day and who do I need

855
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 4: to show up as to be that person? And you know,

856
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 4: I had to cut away to the alcohol because I know

857
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 4: that was the one thing in my life that would

858
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 4: just pulled every think out in chaos, you know, the

859
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 4: bad nutrition, doing stupid shit. And I knew deep down

860
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 4: because I asked myself, like if I removed, like, what

861
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 4: would I need to do to go to that next

862
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 4: level of my life? You know? And I was I'd raise,

863
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 4: you know, qualified for the Boston Marathon, I'd done, you know,

864
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 4: some pretty cool stuff, and I just knew it was

865
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 4: this thing because we can't truly you know, I understand

866
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 4: some people have had some very tough upbringers, and you

867
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 4: know it's very hard to heal from a lot of

868
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 4: those things. And I just want to be clear, but

869
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,439
Speaker 4: I had to really heal myself, not even just through

870
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 4: the childhood. That wasn't even a really you know, once

871
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 4: I met my dad that kind of healed things for me.

872
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 4: But when I went through you know, things after leave

873
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 4: in the army, you know, and then I was self

874
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 4: medicating with the drinking, you know, but then that just

875
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 4: puts me in a more downward spiral. So like Michael

876
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 4: was saying, like the answer is really cutting away devices.

877
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 4: It's hard. It's not easy, especially like we live in

878
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 4: the straw where the culture is. You know, we went

879
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 4: to the boxing last night and everyone's drinking and we weren't,

880
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 4: and people like, you know, you know.

881
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's as a habit, isn't it. They're like, if

882
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 1: you're playing in football, team sport, you have a victory,

883
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: let's all get on, get on the drink. And it

884
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: is a hard way to step away. But I've heard, yeah,

885
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: I drink, and I hear a lot of people that

886
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: say that I'm taking on what you've said, and possibly you, Michael,

887
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: you drink, But you know, it becomes a problem once

888
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: it's become a problem affecting your life. And I know

889
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: a lot of friends that have said, no, I'm not

890
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 1: drinking anymore in the go life, life's good. And then

891
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: I've got other friends that can drink. But the drink

892
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: doesn't really become a problem for it. Perhaps it is

893
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: about the fact that it's not they're not using it

894
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: to mask the pain.

895
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 5: So yeah, that may be the case. But no one

896
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 5: ever tells you when they lose on a poker machine,

897
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 5: do they that's like a bit of an ego spray.

898
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 5: They're like, yeah, it's you know, like things already hard

899
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 5: enough as it is. You know why I make it

900
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 5: any harder when you can make it same, Jess, you

901
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 5: for yourself, it's just it's a no brainer really when

902
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 5: you think about it. You know, like you can you

903
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 5: can balance it all out, and if you can get

904
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 5: by you and honestly true to yourself, you can be

905
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 5: happy with that decision that you make.

906
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 3: It's fine. That's fine for some people. Don't.

907
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 5: They're just like an addict by nature, and they just

908
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 5: have to keep on going, like every day, every day.

909
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 5: And of course, as you said before, you know they've

910
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 5: got the trauma and the pain that they haven't dealt with.

911
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know you mentioned the gambling, the gambling

912
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: addiction that I've seen a lot of people have come

913
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: come through here and that's destroyed their lives. They're robbing

914
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 1: banks because they want to gamble.

915
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 2: They've gambled too much and stuff stuff like that.

916
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: Your mindset, Michael say, just to put it in perspective,

917
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 1: you've been living the high life and yeah, achieving everything

918
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: that you believed identified you as been successful in your

919
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: life over in America.

920
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 2: Two World World Titles three, three w.

921
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 3: B O one w B U. Okay, it's not as

922
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 3: big as the WWB t WB.

923
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, again, not many people, no one who gets

924
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: to that level. So you've gone their life's looking pretty good.

925
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: You're on the cusp of me and Dollar a fight

926
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:15,800
Speaker 1: type situation was. So you're at that level. You potentially

927
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: set yourself up at life. I sit back here, you

928
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: sit back, probably Marty and look and think, wow, what

929
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: a what a great way. But you've gone from that

930
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 1: level and then you found yourself back here and just

931
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 1: what was your mindset when you've come back here, because

932
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 1: this is after your brothers, when.

933
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 5: I've come back to Australia. Yeah, so you know, hindsight's

934
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 5: one thing. I should never just moved back. But you've

935
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 5: got to have the clarity. And I didn't have any

936
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 5: clarity because I was constantly masking my pain with drugs

937
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 5: and alcohol. So I couldn't make any right decisions. Any

938
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 5: projects that I started wanted, Like, I'd say, right now,

939
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 5: I'm going to sell this property in Australia and by

940
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 5: these properties in America, and I'd never finish it.

941
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 3: I never finish it.

942
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 5: And I just i'd go and gamble, I'd go make

943
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 5: some bad decisions or invest in the wrong per and

944
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 5: they do the wrong thing by me. I just made

945
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 5: just one constant bad decision after the other, and I

946
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 5: was never going to move forward.

947
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: It was just, yeah, did you have anyone in your

948
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: life that was giving you a tap on the shoulder

949
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: and saying, hey, what are you doing?

950
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 3: Look?

951
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 5: I did, I did, but it's like I wasn't prepared

952
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 5: to listen. I really was, like you you could have

953
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 5: said that to me because I had that one little

954
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 5: secret that I kept to myself.

955
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 3: I was an alcoholic.

956
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 5: I was a drug addict, you know, and I just

957
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 5: couldn't bring myself to just own it that I had

958
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 5: that problem. And the people that I felt most comfortable

959
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 5: around were people that were obviously giving me drugs or

960
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 5: giving me alcohol. I felt comfortable around them because that

961
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 5: was our little secret, you know, and the only person

962
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 5: I was fooling.

963
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 3: Was myself, and.

964
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: They're not going to judge you. We've had Tom Carroll

965
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: on the on the podcast the two Times World Surfing

966
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 1: Chain and he was using drugs and he felt like

967
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: he was hiding it was his shameful secret because people

968
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: were looking up to him.

969
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 2: And he went through that.

970
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: Matt Mitcham, the Olympic diver, gold medalist diver, and he

971
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 1: was he was using drugs. You've got a profile and

972
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: you're using drugs. There must be some shame that comes

973
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 1: with that too, because you feel like a false pretender.

974
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: Here you are doing this fit, healthy lifestyle guy and

975
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: then you're back Ellie.

976
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 5: Being who you are too. You have like a responsibility.

977
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 5: You have a responsibility to associate with the right people

978
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 5: and to do the right thing.

979
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 3: Like you already know this.

980
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 5: You know people people know this, like it's just it's

981
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 5: a common if people look up to you, don't be

982
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 5: sitting in front of a kid bloody doing doing the

983
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 5: wrong thing because people do see you. Everyone there everyone,

984
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,280
Speaker 5: there's ears everywhere, eyes everywhere. So you have a responsibility

985
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 5: to do the right thing and to be seen doing

986
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 5: the right thing because you're an example for the way

987
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 5: you should be doing things.

988
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 1: And the people that like you had the adulation from

989
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: the boxing fans and the movie stars and all that

990
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: when they're at the peaky your game giving you that attention.

991
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,399
Speaker 1: I'm sure when your life slipped down into that drug world,

992
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: they'd be going, hey, this used to be an olympian,

993
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: he was a world boxing champion.

994
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 2: That validate their existence. Maybe we're not so bad if

995
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 2: it's in the mind.

996
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 3: And that's part of the experience as well.

997
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 5: Like I've had a lot of people reach out to

998
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 5: me back then, and you know, like when you're on

999
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 5: an airplane, the first thing they say is, you know,

1000
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 5: fix your own respirator before you fix the child's, you know,

1001
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 5: because if you can't help yourself, you're not going to

1002
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 5: be able to help anyone else. So here I am today,

1003
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 5: I've gone through that, I've dealt with adversity. I can

1004
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 5: share how I've dealt with adversity and I can help.

1005
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 5: I can really in a position where I can actually

1006
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 5: give someone else the correct kind of guidance when previously

1007
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:31,919
Speaker 5: I've had people reach out to me before in the past,

1008
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 5: and it's like a codependent triangle, you know, like you

1009
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 5: just gone round and round and round, and I couldn't

1010
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,760
Speaker 5: really be of any assistance to anyone because I couldn't

1011
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 5: help myself.

1012
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 3: And I've had and I'm sad about this.

1013
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 5: I've had friends commit suicide, you know, and I think

1014
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 5: maybe I could have been there for them, maybe I

1015
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 5: could have saved them the things that I could have done,

1016
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 5: And you know, like I don't carry that weight with

1017
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:55,800
Speaker 5: me now. I just needed to help. I needed to

1018
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 5: help myself. And you know, that's why we're here now.

1019
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 5: And look, look, I'm just look and I will tell you, Marty, like,

1020
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 5: I'm really fortunate to have you in my corner because

1021
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 5: you know, with all the fights I've had and I've

1022
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 5: had that much of a life and just remembering things,

1023
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 5: it becomes very difficult with everything that I've been through

1024
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 5: and been able to have someone there and to unpack

1025
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 5: this mindset and that the experience that I've gone through

1026
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 5: and go right, heah, You've got to do this. Jot

1027
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 5: that down, Okay, you've gone through that okay bang. That

1028
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 5: relates to resilience, that relates to confidence, that relates to mindset,

1029
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 5: and it's just it's just all these things. Been able

1030
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 5: to unpack it and then pass it on to other people.

1031
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 5: Now I'm helping people in the right way and the

1032
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 5: right people, the right people that need help, that actually

1033
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 5: are willing to work out, you know, hold the hand out,

1034
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 5: hold the hand up and say yeah, I need help.

1035
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: That's why we don't normally get two gaps on the podcast.

1036
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 1: But I like the synergy between you two guys and

1037
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: speaking to you both individually and collectively, I could see that,

1038
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 1: Oh that this is it was.

1039
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 2: A partnership I happened.

1040
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 5: It's just sort of we went on our own way

1041
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 5: and then come to the other. And the one thing

1042
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 5: that we have in common is our mindset. We have

1043
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 5: clarity and our health.

1044
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: And yeah, that that is when you talk the health.

1045
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: That is the brutality of the boxing game too. Yeah yeah, yeah,

1046
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 1: paying the price you're getting getting hit in the yea.

1047
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're aware of that.

1048
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 1: The low point into your drug addiction, when was when

1049
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 1: did you realize When could you Michael Cassida say own

1050
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: to yourself that I'm a drug addict.

1051
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 5: I think the moment that well Parole called me and

1052
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 5: does it warrant out for arrest? So I quit that

1053
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 5: day April eleven, twenty twenty two. You know, I quit,

1054
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 5: and I'm sitting in a jar cell. I've got two

1055
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 5: years at least they had to me, and I'm just thinking,

1056
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 5: how fucking great is this? Because I knew, because I've

1057
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 5: got this hunger and desire to I always know that

1058
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 5: I'm always going to come out the other end no

1059
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 5: matter what. I've got, this brisk bound awheares has never

1060
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 5: give up. And I'm sitting like this is awesome. You know,

1061
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 5: I'm sitting there because I'm going, you know, I'm going

1062
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 5: to come.

1063
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 3: Through the other end.

1064
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 5: And I've got a fucking story to tell. So it

1065
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 5: doesn't matter where you are or what you've done or whatever,

1066
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 5: you can break through it. And I knew that I

1067
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 5: was going to come out of this. I was going

1068
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 5: to come out the other end. I've got a story

1069
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 5: to tell, and with that, I have my sobriety of

1070
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 5: clarity and direction, and I just just had gratitude, Like

1071
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 5: who are you without gratitude? Is going to be thankful?

1072
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 5: Because there's other people in far worse positions than I'm in.

1073
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 3: You know that I've been in.

1074
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 5: There's people that you know, they're sitting there doing the

1075
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:34,919
Speaker 5: rest of their lives in there, you know, and even

1076
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 5: those guys can find solace. Even those guys can find

1077
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 5: themselves and realize and come to terms with things. So

1078
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 5: every people that are outside in the real world, they

1079
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,919
Speaker 5: can do it. The world is your always, so there's

1080
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 5: so many things you can do, Like Russell Manson is

1081
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 5: to have a you know, used to help a lot

1082
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 5: of people, and like that guy is really inspirational and

1083
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 5: you know, like I've only just learned about him since

1084
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:58,439
Speaker 5: getting out about six months ago.

1085
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:04,800
Speaker 1: All Russell became through this we reached out to It

1086
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 1: was a mutual friend that put us in contact and

1087
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: we spent a lot of time. And the people on

1088
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: the podcast know Russell well. But I remember sitting here

1089
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: and the trauma that he went through as a young

1090
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:20,360
Speaker 1: guy and his experience in prison and being sexually abused.

1091
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:20,320
Speaker 2: And all that.

1092
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: It was horrific. Yeah, the irony with Russell. He was

1093
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: doing stick ups when I was in the arm told

1094
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: up squads. A couple of the jobs he was doing

1095
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 1: we were looking for it, but we became we became

1096
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: good friends, and he was a classic example of turning

1097
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 1: life around. And sadly when he passed away and it

1098
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: was a Zaddy's funeral and it was just a big

1099
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 1: loss that hit people people hard, because when you see

1100
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,720
Speaker 1: someone like that that hits the low and then dig their.

1101
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 3: Way out of its inspiration of it.

1102
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 1: Is when we get back in part two, I want

1103
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: to talk about what you hope to achieve by what

1104
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 1: you're doing. I also, and this is just out of

1105
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 1: my curiosity, and I'm sure you Marty, I want to

1106
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: speak a lot about your experience in prison. Like you're

1107
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: going into prison, You're going in as a former world

1108
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 1: boxing champion. They make movies out of that sort of shit,

1109
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 1: so I know what the hell happened when you went

1110
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: in there. And I also in my conversations with you, Marty,

1111
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 1: you said that the thing about Michael is that there's

1112
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: he points out there's no glamour in the prison, and yeah, yeah,

1113
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,399
Speaker 1: a message that we can all get out. And if

1114
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: I have former Bikis or whatever come here, or gangsters,

1115
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: the world looks pretty attractive, but when it's stripped down

1116
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 1: and when you're.

1117
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:40,879
Speaker 2: Locked in a cell. It's not that attractive, and there's

1118
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 2: no real glamor there is there.

1119
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 5: So look, if there's any young people out there and

1120
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 5: they're going on a pathway which they know within themselves,

1121
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 5: and they're thinking about going this way or that way,

1122
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 5: I can tell them, don't go.

1123
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:52,839
Speaker 3: Fucking that way. It's a ship life.

1124
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:54,879
Speaker 5: There's a ship life, and it's nothing to look forward

1125
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 5: to it. There's actually people that are in there that

1126
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 5: actually find comfort in it and then just keeping their

1127
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 5: recit of and they keep coming back. I was talking

1128
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 5: to my psychologists and she said, and I've got like

1129
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,879
Speaker 5: one hundred and sixty pages of contacts of people in there,

1130
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 5: and you know, these are people that are you know,

1131
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 5: obviously they're a lot of them going through sobriety and

1132
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 5: they've they've changed, you know, they've they've been forced to

1133
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 5: not drink or do drugs, and you know, you see

1134
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 5: a different side of them that they would otherwise. They

1135
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,800
Speaker 5: don't have the same things available to them outside, and

1136
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 5: you see different sides of them. But I've got one

1137
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 5: hundred and sixty pages of contacts, and I thought to myself,

1138
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 5: maybe only three percent would come out the other end.

1139
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 5: In reality, and she said that's not bad, Michael. She said,

1140
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 5: an actual fact, only two percent aren't recidivists. They don't

1141
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:38,240
Speaker 5: keep coming back only to it. So it was pretty

1142
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,879
Speaker 5: accurate that And of those two percent of people, there's

1143
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 5: probably only two or three that I would keep in

1144
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 5: contact that I I would truly come out the other end.

1145
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 2: And come out greater things around. Yeah, well we'll talk.

1146
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that the in depth in that part too,

1147
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:55,720
Speaker 1: But it's just reminded me. We had spanions on the podcast,

1148
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: and I remember him describing when he was in boys homes,

1149
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 1: like doing things, getting caught going to boys' homes that

1150
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 1: was exciting because everyone was in there together and we're

1151
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 1: going to be the biggest, baddest against But he said,

1152
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: going to an adult prison really wak him up.

1153
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 2: He's gone, look at it, this is it's life losers

1154
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 2: in here.

1155
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: There's nothing glamorous about being in prison, like there could

1156
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: be the excitement in the boys' homes that yeah, we're

1157
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,399
Speaker 1: going to be the baddest of the bad and making

1158
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 1: a reputation. But when it's all said and done, who

1159
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: wants to be locked in the sell for eighteen hours

1160
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 1: a day? But we'll talk about that in part two,

1161
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 1: so we'll take a break down of course.

1162
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 2: Cheers,