1 00:00:03,810 --> 00:00:06,470 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,470 --> 00:00:09,360 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. We talk a lot about small business on Fear 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:13,450 Sean Aylmer: and Greed, after all, 99% of Australia's businesses are classed 4 00:00:13,450 --> 00:00:17,849 Sean Aylmer: as SMEs, contributing more than 400 billion to our GDP. 5 00:00:18,270 --> 00:00:21,730 Sean Aylmer: But what about small businesses owned and operated by women? 6 00:00:22,110 --> 00:00:24,759 Sean Aylmer: The employment rate for women in Australia is at a record 7 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:29,520 Sean Aylmer: high and female small business ownership numbers are surging. Women 8 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,100 Sean Aylmer: now run more than a third of all small businesses 9 00:00:32,100 --> 00:00:35,770 Sean Aylmer: in Australia. Amanda Rose is the founder of Small Business 10 00:00:35,770 --> 00:00:37,630 Sean Aylmer: Women Australia. Amanda, welcome to Fear and Greed. 11 00:00:37,630 --> 00:00:39,330 Amanda Rose: Thanks for having me. 12 00:00:40,229 --> 00:00:42,980 Sean Aylmer: So can you give us an idea of the landscape 13 00:00:43,650 --> 00:00:47,580 Sean Aylmer: of women in small businesses? How big is it? How 14 00:00:47,580 --> 00:00:48,580 Sean Aylmer: many people are doing it? 15 00:00:48,890 --> 00:00:52,740 Amanda Rose: That's actually a really good question because women often don't even 16 00:00:52,740 --> 00:00:55,750 Amanda Rose: see themselves as small businesses when they are. So I 17 00:00:55,750 --> 00:00:58,570 Amanda Rose: don't even think we're capturing everything and there are different 18 00:00:58,570 --> 00:01:02,420 Amanda Rose: levels. So often people just assume small business, " Oh, you're 19 00:01:02,420 --> 00:01:05,959 Amanda Rose: a small business." But we've got the solopreneurs, we've got micro- 20 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,220 Amanda Rose: business, we've got small business and then we've got the 21 00:01:08,220 --> 00:01:13,090 Amanda Rose: entrepreneur. And they're all very different types of businesses and very 22 00:01:13,090 --> 00:01:18,100 Amanda Rose: different types of women. So very different circumstances, ambitions, goals, 23 00:01:18,220 --> 00:01:20,660 Amanda Rose: everything. So I think if you take all that into 24 00:01:20,660 --> 00:01:26,190 Amanda Rose: consideration, we have a lot more small businesswomen out there 25 00:01:26,190 --> 00:01:30,110 Amanda Rose: than we can actually track because a woman might have 26 00:01:30,110 --> 00:01:32,230 Amanda Rose: an ABN and do some contracting work. Well, that's a 27 00:01:32,230 --> 00:01:33,461 Amanda Rose: small business. She doesn't know it yet. 28 00:01:33,461 --> 00:01:33,741 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 29 00:01:35,250 --> 00:01:37,790 Amanda Rose: And then you've got the entrepreneur, doesn't see themselves as a small business, 30 00:01:37,790 --> 00:01:39,850 Amanda Rose: but they kind of are because there's still only got 31 00:01:39,850 --> 00:01:43,009 Amanda Rose: five staff. So I think there's a lot more, but 32 00:01:43,010 --> 00:01:45,900 Amanda Rose: I also think they're the untapped resource of this country. 33 00:01:46,810 --> 00:01:49,670 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. I mean, when you were talking there Amanda, I thought some of 34 00:01:49,670 --> 00:01:53,030 Sean Aylmer: the women, I know, one of them runs a real 35 00:01:53,030 --> 00:01:55,420 Sean Aylmer: estate agent, another is a consultant to one of the 36 00:01:55,420 --> 00:01:59,470 Sean Aylmer: big four firms. Another actually is one of them school 37 00:01:59,470 --> 00:02:02,530 Sean Aylmer: moms, does work at night to help someone out in 38 00:02:02,530 --> 00:02:06,560 Sean Aylmer: bookkeeping. All of those people are actually businesswomen. 39 00:02:06,990 --> 00:02:11,290 Amanda Rose: That's exactly right. I mean, nearly 35% of all Australian 40 00:02:11,290 --> 00:02:15,220 Amanda Rose: businesses are female- owned. And you take that into consideration 41 00:02:15,370 --> 00:02:20,160 Amanda Rose: versus the support, the awareness, and the opportunities that they 42 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,870 Amanda Rose: get. It is out of proportion. We do not get 43 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,760 Amanda Rose: the exact same opportunity. You only get equal opportunity when it comes 44 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,919 Amanda Rose: to small business. And we need to really change that. 45 00:02:30,300 --> 00:02:32,960 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Are there certain sectors that are dominated by women? 46 00:02:34,060 --> 00:02:37,580 Amanda Rose: Look, we've got the traditional sector. So community services, women 47 00:02:37,630 --> 00:02:41,190 Amanda Rose: always want to help. Right? Every small businesswoman is in 48 00:02:41,190 --> 00:02:44,570 Amanda Rose: business because she either wants to help a community, another 49 00:02:44,570 --> 00:02:48,930 Amanda Rose: person, another business, or a family. So that's huge admin 50 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,660 Amanda Rose: and also hospitality and retail and things like that where 51 00:02:51,660 --> 00:02:55,360 Amanda Rose: it's consumer- facing. They love dealing with people and talking 52 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,780 Amanda Rose: with people, so that still dominates. However, there is now 53 00:02:58,780 --> 00:03:03,380 Amanda Rose: a shift where we're starting to get, STEM- based, sustainability- 54 00:03:03,380 --> 00:03:07,210 Amanda Rose: based ideas and businesses off the ground. And that's fantastic. 55 00:03:07,210 --> 00:03:10,139 Amanda Rose: So we need to spread the love so to speak. 56 00:03:10,139 --> 00:03:12,400 Amanda Rose: To say to women, " You don't have to just go 57 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,320 Amanda Rose: into one particular area, you can go into any area 58 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,410 Amanda Rose: you wish, you just got to have the right support and 59 00:03:18,460 --> 00:03:20,040 Amanda Rose: obviously, the barriers knocked down." 60 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:22,730 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Amanda, we'll be back in a minute. 61 00:03:28,870 --> 00:03:31,429 Sean Aylmer: My guess this morning is Amanda Rose, founder of Small 62 00:03:31,430 --> 00:03:35,360 Sean Aylmer: Business Women Australia. Okay. So let's talk about the support 63 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:40,840 Sean Aylmer: and the barriers. We are in an election campaign and 64 00:03:40,930 --> 00:03:43,210 Sean Aylmer: I'm sure there'll be thousands of promises made out there, 65 00:03:43,470 --> 00:03:47,090 Sean Aylmer: but the support part of it, things like childcare, so 66 00:03:47,090 --> 00:03:51,700 Sean Aylmer: critical to actually enabling women to have a go. 67 00:03:53,260 --> 00:03:56,030 Amanda Rose: Childcare's a really interesting one. So often when it comes 68 00:03:56,030 --> 00:04:00,660 Amanda Rose: to the small businesswoman, childcare's not discussed or talked about. 69 00:04:00,660 --> 00:04:03,730 Amanda Rose: I raise that flag often, people just assume, " Oh, you're 70 00:04:03,730 --> 00:04:06,260 Amanda Rose: a small businesswoman, you've got a flexible life. You, you 71 00:04:06,260 --> 00:04:10,080 Amanda Rose: can juggle everything." No, that's not the case. They still 72 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,040 Amanda Rose: need childcare. And if anything, just childminding, which is different 73 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,339 Amanda Rose: to childcare and it's more of a co- op. So 74 00:04:17,339 --> 00:04:19,190 Amanda Rose: it could be something where a group of small businesswomen 75 00:04:20,180 --> 00:04:22,370 Amanda Rose: have a place where they can all use. They have 76 00:04:22,370 --> 00:04:24,730 Amanda Rose: childminding, while they're working on their business at a co- 77 00:04:24,730 --> 00:04:26,830 Amanda Rose: working space, which is a brilliant idea and they do it 78 00:04:26,830 --> 00:04:30,029 Amanda Rose: in the US. But we need to think of the 79 00:04:30,029 --> 00:04:33,040 Amanda Rose: small businesswoman and all her barriers, childcare is definitely one, 80 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,750 Amanda Rose: but also access to money. So I know that the 81 00:04:36,750 --> 00:04:40,159 Amanda Rose: federal government has The Boosting Female Founders Initiative, which is 82 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,540 Amanda Rose: great. And I know they've just released a tender for, 83 00:04:43,540 --> 00:04:45,580 Amanda Rose: I think it's nearly triple the size of the last 84 00:04:45,580 --> 00:04:48,339 Amanda Rose: one. And I mentor a lot of those women and 85 00:04:48,339 --> 00:04:51,460 Amanda Rose: I can see the benefits that that has. I think we 86 00:04:51,460 --> 00:04:54,010 Amanda Rose: need more of those initiatives to get off the ground 87 00:04:54,270 --> 00:04:57,910 Amanda Rose: and communicate it to women who think, " Oh, that's not 88 00:04:57,910 --> 00:05:00,980 Amanda Rose: for me." Which is a huge issue for women of small business, " 89 00:05:00,980 --> 00:05:03,050 Amanda Rose: Oh, I'm just a small business owner. I don't need that 90 00:05:03,050 --> 00:05:04,859 Amanda Rose: money to grow." Well, yes you do take it. 91 00:05:06,190 --> 00:05:10,339 Sean Aylmer: So yeah, I mean that's a mindset which I'm guessing 92 00:05:10,339 --> 00:05:11,350 Sean Aylmer: is different to men. 93 00:05:11,740 --> 00:05:14,850 Amanda Rose: Oh, 100%. I think I spend most of my time 94 00:05:14,850 --> 00:05:18,210 Amanda Rose: with mentoring, regardless of the size of the small business 95 00:05:18,540 --> 00:05:22,120 Amanda Rose: with the particular woman, is to let her know and 96 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,260 Amanda Rose: to convince her that she can do it and it 97 00:05:25,260 --> 00:05:28,330 Amanda Rose: is for her. So the mindset is, don't speak up, 98 00:05:28,330 --> 00:05:32,020 Amanda Rose: don't ask for too much, don't ask for help, don't 99 00:05:32,020 --> 00:05:35,470 Amanda Rose: fail. Make sure you're saying yes to everything, even though 100 00:05:35,470 --> 00:05:39,460 Amanda Rose: it's irrelevant to your business. So all these things, we've been 101 00:05:39,460 --> 00:05:42,920 Amanda Rose: conditioned by society to be like that. And women need 102 00:05:42,930 --> 00:05:46,490 Amanda Rose: to realize, you're a businesswoman, even just a business person, 103 00:05:46,490 --> 00:05:49,070 Amanda Rose: I usually try to say. So yes, you have unique 104 00:05:49,330 --> 00:05:51,750 Amanda Rose: things that you need to consider like childcare and different 105 00:05:51,750 --> 00:05:54,740 Amanda Rose: things. And I understand that, but when it comes to business, you 106 00:05:54,740 --> 00:05:57,479 Amanda Rose: own a business. So what are the opportunities for you? 107 00:05:57,610 --> 00:05:59,089 Amanda Rose: How can you go out and get that? So I 108 00:05:59,089 --> 00:06:03,010 Amanda Rose: think changing mindset could literally change a small businesswoman's life. 109 00:06:03,450 --> 00:06:07,180 Sean Aylmer: How do you do it? I mean, this is perhaps 110 00:06:07,180 --> 00:06:11,290 Sean Aylmer: not unique in that society in Australia is as it 111 00:06:11,290 --> 00:06:14,370 Sean Aylmer: is. And because it has been so male- dominated for 112 00:06:14,370 --> 00:06:17,270 Sean Aylmer: so long, that just seems so far to go. 113 00:06:17,570 --> 00:06:20,659 Amanda Rose: Look, you just got to push your way through. It's just as full as 114 00:06:20,950 --> 00:06:24,250 Amanda Rose: that. You really do. So this is the thing, it 115 00:06:24,250 --> 00:06:26,750 Amanda Rose: doesn't mean you're rude. It doesn't mean you're aggressive. It 116 00:06:26,750 --> 00:06:29,620 Amanda Rose: means you're firm. You know what you want and you 117 00:06:29,620 --> 00:06:31,690 Amanda Rose: just keep going until you get it. You've really got 118 00:06:31,690 --> 00:06:33,390 Amanda Rose: to push your way through. You've got to put your 119 00:06:33,390 --> 00:06:36,020 Amanda Rose: hand up. You've got to not waste your time. There's 120 00:06:36,020 --> 00:06:38,280 Amanda Rose: a lot of time wasters out there that really do 121 00:06:38,529 --> 00:06:41,180 Amanda Rose: target women. So you need to say no a lot 122 00:06:41,180 --> 00:06:45,380 Amanda Rose: more and advocate. So I don't believe in jumping up 123 00:06:45,380 --> 00:06:47,520 Amanda Rose: and down and getting angry about things. I believe in 124 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,740 Amanda Rose: doing something about it, which is why I started Small Business Women 125 00:06:50,250 --> 00:06:52,850 Amanda Rose: Australia. I thought, " No, we need a voice, we need 126 00:06:52,850 --> 00:06:56,900 Amanda Rose: advocacy, we need opportunity." And that's I think the way 127 00:06:56,900 --> 00:06:59,430 Amanda Rose: women need to think. That's for me, I need to 128 00:06:59,430 --> 00:07:01,740 Amanda Rose: go for it. I need to put my hand up and I need to 129 00:07:01,740 --> 00:07:02,960 Amanda Rose: keep going until I get it. 130 00:07:03,900 --> 00:07:06,940 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And Amanda, having known you for a few years, you 131 00:07:06,940 --> 00:07:09,380 Sean Aylmer: certainly do that really, really well. Right? And I don't think that's 132 00:07:09,850 --> 00:07:13,130 Sean Aylmer: a male- female thing, that that's your personality, you're really 133 00:07:13,130 --> 00:07:17,590 Sean Aylmer: good at that. I mean, should the government somehow be 134 00:07:17,990 --> 00:07:22,210 Sean Aylmer: by seeing women who have had less opportunity be that 135 00:07:22,210 --> 00:07:24,660 Sean Aylmer: in tenders or contracts or things like that, is there 136 00:07:24,660 --> 00:07:26,680 Sean Aylmer: something in that realm we should be thinking about? 137 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,350 Amanda Rose: Yeah. So I think what needs to happen is, see 138 00:07:29,350 --> 00:07:31,840 Amanda Rose: a lot of people complain about, " Oh, they're getting handouts." Or, " 139 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,830 Amanda Rose: They're getting opportunities." Well, actually, what we're doing is evening 140 00:07:34,830 --> 00:07:35,990 Amanda Rose: out the playing field. 141 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:36,020 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 142 00:07:36,540 --> 00:07:39,750 Amanda Rose: So like in New York City, they committed, I think 143 00:07:40,060 --> 00:07:44,530 Amanda Rose: it was like $1.6 billion of tenders over 10 years to minority 144 00:07:44,530 --> 00:07:47,730 Amanda Rose: and female- owned businesses. And it catapulted the small business 145 00:07:47,730 --> 00:07:50,430 Amanda Rose: community for women. And that's what I would love to see 146 00:07:50,730 --> 00:07:54,520 Amanda Rose: happen in Australia. So going for tenders is overwhelming for women, 147 00:07:54,710 --> 00:08:00,480 Amanda Rose: but there're also those large infrastructure construction tenders. And by default, 148 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:01,920 Amanda Rose: the guys will say, " Look, we'll just go to the 149 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,940 Amanda Rose: people that we know." And they do have criteria in 150 00:08:04,940 --> 00:08:07,960 Amanda Rose: these government tenders, for example, that say 30% have to 151 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,930 Amanda Rose: be local SMEs. Well, why don't we add to that 152 00:08:10,930 --> 00:08:15,410 Amanda Rose: and say, actually 30% needs to be female- owned small business 153 00:08:15,410 --> 00:08:19,950 Amanda Rose: owners or 20% or some percentage to encourage their change 154 00:08:19,950 --> 00:08:22,490 Amanda Rose: of behavior to say, " Why don't you go out and 155 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,230 Amanda Rose: look for them?" They're right there. And then the women 156 00:08:25,230 --> 00:08:27,650 Amanda Rose: themselves who actually put the hand up for tenders, but 157 00:08:27,860 --> 00:08:30,340 Amanda Rose: we do need to change the structure or at least 158 00:08:30,340 --> 00:08:34,080 Amanda Rose: disrupt it enough, do not say, " Hey, don't whinge saying, 159 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,340 Amanda Rose: 'Oh, it's not fair.'" And then look, the reality is it 160 00:08:36,390 --> 00:08:41,219 Amanda Rose: isn't. It's just more comfortable for the current system to 161 00:08:41,220 --> 00:08:44,099 Amanda Rose: continue going the way it is. We need to disrupt that a 162 00:08:44,100 --> 00:08:46,420 Amanda Rose: little bit. We need to say, " Well actually here are 163 00:08:46,420 --> 00:08:49,580 Amanda Rose: five women, 10 women own businesses that can actually do 164 00:08:49,580 --> 00:08:51,850 Amanda Rose: the exact same job. Why don't you give some of 165 00:08:51,850 --> 00:08:56,520 Amanda Rose: it to them." Because women don't just want handouts, women want contracts. 166 00:08:57,070 --> 00:08:58,721 Sean Aylmer: What should men do? 167 00:08:58,721 --> 00:09:02,850 Amanda Rose: Men should seriously realize that sometimes buddy, just because you hide 168 00:09:02,850 --> 00:09:08,040 Amanda Rose: your mate doesn't mean it's the best choice, right? And 169 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,300 Amanda Rose: I see this, I work with men all the time 170 00:09:10,300 --> 00:09:13,739 Amanda Rose: and I see everyone as business people and I've been 171 00:09:13,740 --> 00:09:17,170 Amanda Rose: in discussions where men have literally, six men have talked 172 00:09:17,170 --> 00:09:19,429 Amanda Rose: about a particular product they're all investing in, and the 173 00:09:19,429 --> 00:09:22,340 Amanda Rose: product's targeted to women. And I'm like, " Hey, notice something 174 00:09:22,340 --> 00:09:23,951 Amanda Rose: missing in this discussion?" Right? 175 00:09:23,951 --> 00:09:24,361 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 176 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,849 Amanda Rose: So it's more educating them. But for men, they need to realize, 177 00:09:29,030 --> 00:09:32,780 Amanda Rose: it's that diverse thinking, right? When you think of how 178 00:09:32,780 --> 00:09:36,990 Amanda Rose: much, so 75% of consumer discretionary spending is decided by women. 179 00:09:37,350 --> 00:09:40,290 Amanda Rose: So you would actually not be a wise business person 180 00:09:40,290 --> 00:09:42,790 Amanda Rose: if you didn't have a woman on your team or 181 00:09:42,790 --> 00:09:46,329 Amanda Rose: more. Or you didn't contract out to women who have 182 00:09:46,330 --> 00:09:50,230 Amanda Rose: the connections, have the knowledge, and have the experience. And 183 00:09:50,260 --> 00:09:53,670 Amanda Rose: from my experience, the businesses that do have a diverse 184 00:09:53,670 --> 00:09:57,170 Amanda Rose: team do better and it's more enjoyable to work with, versus 185 00:09:57,170 --> 00:09:57,820 Amanda Rose: those who don't. 186 00:09:58,620 --> 00:10:01,530 Sean Aylmer: It's funny this a few years ago now, I asked 187 00:10:01,530 --> 00:10:03,730 Sean Aylmer: a number of my team members in the organization I 188 00:10:03,730 --> 00:10:05,950 Sean Aylmer: was at to come down to Melbourne with me and there might 189 00:10:06,350 --> 00:10:09,940 Sean Aylmer: have been five people and one woman just hesitated and 190 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,330 Sean Aylmer: after three or four seconds, she said, " Yeah, that's fine." 191 00:10:12,410 --> 00:10:15,120 Sean Aylmer: And afterwards, I asked her why. And she said, because 192 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,740 Sean Aylmer: in the moment her kids were coming home, she wouldn't 193 00:10:17,740 --> 00:10:20,260 Sean Aylmer: get back till 8: 00 PM or 9: 00 PM. Her kids were 194 00:10:20,260 --> 00:10:23,010 Sean Aylmer: coming back from school. She knew they could get back 195 00:10:23,010 --> 00:10:25,920 Sean Aylmer: from school, but what about getting dinner ready? And it 196 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:27,490 Sean Aylmer: wasn't childcare, it was childminding. She was a single mom, 197 00:10:27,870 --> 00:10:30,660 Sean Aylmer: it didn't even cross my mind until I asked her why she hesitated. 198 00:10:30,660 --> 00:10:30,661 Amanda Rose: Yes. 199 00:10:30,661 --> 00:10:32,720 Sean Aylmer: And is this great lesson for me that assuming that everyone's like me is wrong. And I mean, but particularly for single moms and just things that didn't even cross 200 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:33,209 Sean Aylmer: my mind. 201 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:53,140 Amanda Rose: But that's right. And I think it's just even exactly 202 00:10:53,140 --> 00:10:56,010 Amanda Rose: what you did, asking. I do that. I said, " Oh, 203 00:10:56,010 --> 00:10:57,740 Amanda Rose: why did you hesitate?" Or, " Why did you tell me 204 00:10:57,740 --> 00:11:00,150 Amanda Rose: that number?" Or, " Why did you say that?" And I 205 00:11:00,150 --> 00:11:01,720 Amanda Rose: try and find out just like you did. And it 206 00:11:01,890 --> 00:11:05,640 Amanda Rose: really does help us understand what other people are facing. 207 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,780 Amanda Rose: And if someone is willing and wanting, then we should 208 00:11:08,780 --> 00:11:11,110 Amanda Rose: at least do what we can to provide that assistance, 209 00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:14,429 Amanda Rose: especially single moms. I mean, they have it harder than 210 00:11:14,429 --> 00:11:20,059 Amanda Rose: absolutely anyone on this planet. And not because of their 211 00:11:20,059 --> 00:11:22,589 Amanda Rose: own choices, a majority of the time. Right? So we 212 00:11:22,590 --> 00:11:24,700 Amanda Rose: need to make sure that they're not missing out on 213 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,319 Amanda Rose: opportunities and contracts. And look, it takes a village. And 214 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,000 Amanda Rose: I think if we have that mindset, it's not saying, 215 00:11:31,010 --> 00:11:33,780 Amanda Rose: okay, everyone gets away with everything. I said, no, let's 216 00:11:33,780 --> 00:11:37,730 Amanda Rose: put mechanisms in place to ask those questions and say, " 217 00:11:37,730 --> 00:11:41,929 Amanda Rose: Right, if you need childcare for that afternoon, is there 218 00:11:41,929 --> 00:11:45,079 Amanda Rose: someone you can call?" And having those simple conversations, but 219 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,870 Amanda Rose: it makes a huge difference. I was chatting with a 220 00:11:47,870 --> 00:11:51,109 Amanda Rose: gentleman and they were hiring a group of people, two 221 00:11:51,110 --> 00:11:52,839 Amanda Rose: men, and one woman. And I said, " Would you mind 222 00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:56,120 Amanda Rose: telling me how much the woman charged?" And he said, " 223 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,579 Amanda Rose: Actually, interesting, you asked that she was a hundred dollars 224 00:11:58,580 --> 00:12:01,640 Amanda Rose: less an hour than the two men." And he said, " 225 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:03,850 Amanda Rose: Oh, maybe it's because she sees value in what we 226 00:12:03,850 --> 00:12:06,350 Amanda Rose: do and wants to do more work with us in 227 00:12:06,410 --> 00:12:09,280 Amanda Rose: the future." And that's genuine, he genuinely thought that. I said, " 228 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,270 Amanda Rose: No, that's not it. That's not it at all." 229 00:12:11,270 --> 00:12:12,260 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 230 00:12:12,260 --> 00:12:15,380 Amanda Rose: Because she thinks, " Oh, I better not charge too much." And I 231 00:12:15,380 --> 00:12:17,700 Amanda Rose: said, in future, go back and say to the woman, and this 232 00:12:18,090 --> 00:12:20,330 Amanda Rose: is a story for all the men out there listening. 233 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,460 Amanda Rose: If that happens, go back to her and say, " Can 234 00:12:23,460 --> 00:12:25,809 Amanda Rose: you increase your hourly rate by a hundred dollars an 235 00:12:25,809 --> 00:12:28,709 Amanda Rose: hour, so you're on par with the men." It will 236 00:12:28,710 --> 00:12:32,130 Amanda Rose: change her life. She will then be able to do 237 00:12:32,130 --> 00:12:35,309 Amanda Rose: the same for other women. We really need to make 238 00:12:35,309 --> 00:12:38,500 Amanda Rose: an equal playing field, step- by- step. Someone said that to 239 00:12:38,500 --> 00:12:42,500 Amanda Rose: me in my early twenties and it changed how I 240 00:12:42,500 --> 00:12:44,130 Amanda Rose: price, it changed everything for me. 241 00:12:44,970 --> 00:12:46,849 Sean Aylmer: So the end of my story was that I actually 242 00:12:46,850 --> 00:12:49,420 Sean Aylmer: said to the woman, " Look, we'll pay for someone to come in 243 00:12:49,420 --> 00:12:51,870 Sean Aylmer: and get dinner or buy them take away." Actually, I think is what 244 00:12:51,870 --> 00:12:55,670 Sean Aylmer: we did. That woman, who was great anyway was the 245 00:12:55,670 --> 00:12:57,990 Sean Aylmer: most loyal person to me from that moment on. 246 00:12:59,490 --> 00:12:59,501 Amanda Rose: Oh, a hundred percent. 247 00:12:59,501 --> 00:13:02,530 Sean Aylmer: And so, as a man, if you actually ask that question, she said, " 248 00:13:02,530 --> 00:13:04,570 Sean Aylmer: Oh." I mean, just in her mind, she obviously thought 249 00:13:04,610 --> 00:13:06,809 Sean Aylmer: that I was thinking about her, and wow, what an 250 00:13:06,809 --> 00:13:07,840 Sean Aylmer: employee she became. 251 00:13:08,050 --> 00:13:11,740 Amanda Rose: Someone cares. I mean, really, if we lost this ability to 252 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,949 Amanda Rose: give a crap about people. I mean, it's a simple, " 253 00:13:14,950 --> 00:13:17,050 Amanda Rose: Are you okay?" Or, " What can I do to help?" 254 00:13:17,090 --> 00:13:22,189 Amanda Rose: Because everyone lives a completely different life behind closed doors, 255 00:13:22,190 --> 00:13:23,920 Amanda Rose: we don't know their struggles. We don't know what they're doing. 256 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:23,921 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 257 00:13:23,921 --> 00:13:27,050 Amanda Rose: And if they genuinely want to participate and they want to put 258 00:13:27,050 --> 00:13:28,830 Amanda Rose: in the work, we should do all we can to 259 00:13:28,830 --> 00:13:29,130 Amanda Rose: help them. 260 00:13:29,130 --> 00:13:31,929 Sean Aylmer: Amanda, keep doing what you're doing. And thank you for 261 00:13:31,929 --> 00:13:33,740 Sean Aylmer: talking to Fear and Greed this morning. 262 00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:34,729 Amanda Rose: Thanks for having me. 263 00:13:35,309 --> 00:13:38,820 Sean Aylmer: That was Amanda Rose, founder of Small Business Women Australia. This 264 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:41,790 Sean Aylmer: is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join us every 265 00:13:41,790 --> 00:13:44,070 Sean Aylmer: morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's 266 00:13:44,070 --> 00:13:47,530 Sean Aylmer: most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.