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Speaker 1: Neck Rose. Welcome to the podcast. Great to be with you.

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Speaker 2: Once the bloody technology allowed me to log into my

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Speaker 2: own account.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, we are here.

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Speaker 2: I mean we are going to talk about all things food,

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Speaker 2: and you are heavily involved in food systems, so I

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Speaker 2: thought an interesting point to start would be just tell

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Speaker 2: you our listeners about your PhD, what you studied in

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Speaker 2: and in what you do now, and just give us

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Speaker 2: the five foot overview of the neck Rose train.

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Speaker 3: Great. Thanks, thanks very much. And yeah, my journey, my

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Speaker 3: journey into food is a little bit different, I guess

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Speaker 3: to a lot of others. I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: people come into working in food systems having worked in

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Speaker 3: hospital working training in dietetics or public health nutrition. But

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Speaker 3: those kinds of backgrounds and entry points. For me, it

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Speaker 3: was a little bit different. My first career actually was

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Speaker 3: in law. I was a corporate lawyer briefly, and then

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Speaker 3: a big turning point came in making the decision to

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Speaker 3: go and live in Guatemala and Central America. I had

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Speaker 3: been living in the UK for many years. After jettisoning

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Speaker 3: my corporate law degree, my career went and lived in

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Speaker 3: the UK for many years the nineteen nineties and then

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Speaker 3: made the decision to go and live in Guatemala at

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Speaker 3: the beginning of the year two thousand and that was

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Speaker 3: motivated not by food but by human rights. And I

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Speaker 3: guess that's kind of like my entry point into this

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Speaker 3: is really from a principal position that access to good

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Speaker 3: food for all people at all times is really and

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Speaker 3: should be seen as a basic human rights, something that

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Speaker 3: all of us should be entitled to simply by virtual

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Speaker 3: of the fact that you know, we're humans and we're

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Speaker 3: alive on a planet that is full of abundance and nourishment.

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Speaker 1: So why Guatemala.

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Speaker 3: The time in Guatemala. The time in Guatemala was very formative. Paul, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: my partner at the time and I had in London.

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Speaker 3: We'd been meeting with the coordinator of a Spanish NGO

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Speaker 3: called Las regard as their pass in the Nacionales or

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Speaker 3: Peace Brigades International. They were set up in the mid

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighties as wanting to put the idea of human

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Speaker 3: rights into practice in a very physical and material way,

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Speaker 3: that is to say, mobilizing volunteers you know, from Europe,

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Speaker 3: from Britain, North America, you know, Australia, the global North

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Speaker 3: essentially to go and live and work in countries in

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Speaker 3: the global South that we're in situations of conflict, of

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Speaker 3: internal armed conflict or civil war, and the theory the

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Speaker 3: idea that by going and living and working in those

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Speaker 3: situations you could be making a very significant difference by

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Speaker 3: somebody who was say indigenous rights activists or women's rights group,

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Speaker 3: somebody like that, who, because of the work they were

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Speaker 3: doing in the context of the country at that time,

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Speaker 3: put them in tremendous danger. And often those people would

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Speaker 3: be experiencing harassment, threats, you know, disappearance, all kinds of

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Speaker 3: you know, risks and dangers you know that they were

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Speaker 3: exposing themselves to. And the idea of Peace Brigades is

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Speaker 3: that someone like myself as an Australian would go and

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Speaker 3: live and work alongside that person and I would be

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Speaker 3: a witness an observer, and my physical presence would be

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Speaker 3: at a terrant to the bad guys from actually following

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Speaker 3: through on their threats. Interesting, So that's what they did. Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's really very interesting organization and a very as I say,

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Speaker 3: very direct and tangible way of putting the idea of

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Speaker 3: human rights into reality on the ground. So we went

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Speaker 3: to Guatemala to learn Spanish and then wanted to go

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Speaker 3: to Columbia because there was a project that peaceologates had

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Speaker 3: at Columbia, which at that time was still in civil war.

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Speaker 3: But turned out that in Guatemala there was a need

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Speaker 3: for that work as well. I knew very little about

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Speaker 3: the country before going there. Got a massive life education,

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Speaker 3: historical political education going there because the language school I

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Speaker 3: went to didn't want to teach students just simply about

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Speaker 3: the Spanish language, but also about the reality of the

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Speaker 3: country and the history of the country. And you know

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Speaker 3: why there was features such as you know, in trench

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Speaker 3: poverty and increased you know, migration upwards to Mexico and

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Speaker 3: in the United States, and all these you know, these

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Speaker 3: big things. Why were they? Why were they taking place?

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Speaker 3: So I didn't just get an education in Spanish language,

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Speaker 3: I got an education in the whole history of Central

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Speaker 3: America and Guatemala in particular. And at that time, in

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Speaker 3: the year two thousand, Guatemala had recently exited its thirty

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Speaker 3: six years of internal conflict, and the first part of

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Speaker 3: the piece accords that were being implemented were exhumations of

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Speaker 3: all the mass graves. Because the Guatemalan military in the

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Speaker 3: years nineteen seventy eight to eighty two eighty three actually

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Speaker 3: implemented a brutal counterinsurgency strategy called scorch Earth tedda.

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Speaker 4: Adrasada I remember, which led to the I spent a

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Speaker 4: better time in Guatemala, I think, Yeah, there was nineties,

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Speaker 4: and I remember reading about the history of that was

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Speaker 4: quite horandous.

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Speaker 3: Right, terrible, absolutely appalling, And so all these mass graves

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Speaker 3: were around the country, and so the first part of

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Speaker 3: the piece of cords was to exhume those mass graves

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Speaker 3: in the first instance, so that survivers could actually you know,

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Speaker 3: move forward with their greeting process and move to some

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Speaker 3: sense of closure because they'd be able to provide their

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Speaker 3: loved ones with a dignified burial. But you know, for

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Speaker 3: the ex military, the last thing they wanted was those

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Speaker 3: bones being dug up, because they were all evidence of

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Speaker 3: their crimes against humanity and genocide, as it was later

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Speaker 3: ruled to be. So yeah, so we actually went to Columbia.

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Speaker 3: We ended up staying Guatemala and doing you know that

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Speaker 3: work for a year, and then we ended up working

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Speaker 3: with human rights organizations in Guatemala, Chiapas and Southern Mexico

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Speaker 3: and Hondurists and doing several years of human rights capacity

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Speaker 3: building workshops, and that again was a privilege for me

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Speaker 3: to meet some very brave leaders of these grassroots, indigenous

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Speaker 3: and peasant organizations. And I went back to study then

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Speaker 3: in Guatemala, did a master's in International Community Development and

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Speaker 3: then came back to Australia with my young family at

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Speaker 3: the end of two thousand and six. And that's why

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Speaker 3: I decided to do the PhD on food sovereignty as

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Speaker 3: a global small farmer indigenous people's movement that was about

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Speaker 3: trying to reorient the global agricultural and food system from

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Speaker 3: one that was really about maximizing corporate profits to one

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Speaker 3: that was about you know, flourishing people and ecosystems. And

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Speaker 3: that's been that's been my journey ever since, I guess,

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Speaker 3: so those very formative years in Guatemala. The book, actually

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Speaker 3: it was a book that really was central in this

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Speaker 3: story for me, was called Bitter Fruit, The Untold Story

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Speaker 3: of the CIA Coup in Guatemala, which was looking at

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Speaker 3: the history back in the early nineteen fifties when Guatemala

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Speaker 3: had its brief democratic spring as it was called, and

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Speaker 3: the government at that time, Guatemala was actually trying to

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Speaker 3: achieve a land reform process to modernize the country in

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Speaker 3: the way that Japan and Korea had done by breaking

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Speaker 3: up big feudal landholdings and redistributing that land to the

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Speaker 3: poor indigenous majority to give them an opportunity at a

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Speaker 3: decent life and to be food secure. But in doing

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Speaker 3: that in Guatemala, it came smack into the power of

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Speaker 3: the United Corporation, the Banana Company. That's why they speak

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Speaker 3: about banana republics, because this corporation in Honduras and Guatemala

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Speaker 3: in the first decades of the twentieth century, had tremendous

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Speaker 3: control over the economy and the politics of those countries.

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Speaker 3: So unfortunately for the people of Guatemala, you know, the

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Speaker 3: idea that it could modernize and embark on a land

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Speaker 3: reform program was deemed unacceptable to the interests of the corporation.

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Speaker 3: They had links with the Eisenhower White House. They you know,

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Speaker 3: they said, you know, there's a terrible threat to the

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Speaker 3: national security of the United States going on. The Communists

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Speaker 3: have taken power in Guatemala. If we don't do anything,

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Speaker 3: you know, the Soviet Union will be sticking missiles down

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Speaker 3: there and threatening our national security. Therefore, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: a regime change operation. They carried out a Kude tar

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Speaker 3: in nineteen fifty four, and a few years later, you know,

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Speaker 3: the country plunged into thirty six years of war, which

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Speaker 3: you know, the trauma is continuing and will continue for decades.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's no functioning legal system. You know, the

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Speaker 3: rates of violence against women are off the charts. You know,

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Speaker 3: waves of migrants, you know, pouring northwards to Mexico and

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Speaker 3: the United States. You know, gangs are controlling large parts

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Speaker 3: of the city. So it's it was, Yeah, I guess

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Speaker 3: for me, it made me so angry that a country

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Speaker 3: was simply trying to have a chance at its own

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Speaker 3: sovereignty and independence and actually rule itself for the benefit

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Speaker 3: of its people. And it was like a candle that

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Speaker 3: was snuffed out at that moment because you know, the

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Speaker 3: powers that be and in the global Empire decided it

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Speaker 3: was you know, impermissible that they could be allowed to

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Speaker 3: do that. And yeah, the violence and the suffering that

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Speaker 3: was unleashed as a result is heartbreaking, And I guess, yeah,

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Speaker 3: for me, that's what I've kind of brought into my

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Speaker 3: work around food and agricultural systems that you know, we

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Speaker 3: have every opportunity in this world for everyone to you know,

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Speaker 3: to live well and to eat well, but where you know,

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Speaker 3: we're not being able to fulfill that potential because the

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Speaker 3: you know, the systems and the major decisions are really

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Speaker 3: being taken, you know, to benefit, in the case of

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Speaker 3: the food system, a small number of very powerful corporate

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Speaker 3: interests who've got no real concern about our health and

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Speaker 3: well being. I mean, if we turn then to Australia

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty five, and I know you've talked about this,

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Speaker 3: the food that we're being fed, the food that's being

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Speaker 3: promoted and discounted and marketed to our children, is you know,

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Speaker 3: is making it's slowly you know, killing us really and

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Speaker 3: diminishing our quality of life. And it's all simply to

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Speaker 3: fill the coffers of these powerful corporations.

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Speaker 2: I read a start neck the other week, and I

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Speaker 2: need to dig into it just to to find out

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Speaker 2: the validity of it. But it was it was from

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Speaker 2: doctor Chris van Housen. I think that one of the

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Speaker 2: guys in there who writes all about ultra processed food.

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Speaker 2: He said that seventy five percent of calories consumed in

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Speaker 2: the world are created by six corporations. Like I mean,

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Speaker 2: anybody who hears that you just could not help but

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Speaker 2: to be alone that that six companies are actually responsible

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Speaker 2: for the creation of seventy five percent of calories that.

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Speaker 1: We all eat.

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Speaker 2: And you know these companies that they're they're the major

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Speaker 2: thing is to drive and returns to shareholders, right, so

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Speaker 2: they are always going to put profit above everything else,

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Speaker 2: and they're just but interesting. It's very interesting to hear

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Speaker 2: the whole history around the Banana Republic. I wasn't familiar

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Speaker 2: that was the term, that was where the term actually

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Speaker 2: came from.

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Speaker 1: And not surprising that the corporation.

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Speaker 2: Would there use the idea of communism to get the

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Speaker 2: United States and the CIA on board. And look at

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Speaker 2: anybody who's traveled in Central South America just knows and

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Speaker 2: has read about the history knows that the CIA have

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Speaker 2: done all sorts of horrendous things throughout that region. And

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Speaker 2: and you know, now you have a look at the

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Speaker 2: ramifications and it's just it's it's it's crazy. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: that's a whole other podcast actually, just which just reminds

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Speaker 2: me anybody who's interested in this subject. Should actually read

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Speaker 2: a book I don't know if you've ever heard of it,

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Speaker 2: Confessions of an Economic hit Man.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 2: And it is a ridiculous eye opener, isn't it About

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Speaker 2: what goes.

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Speaker 1: On behind the scenes.

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Speaker 2: With these big are well with with interests, international interests,

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Speaker 2: and how basically money is used to control other nations.

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Speaker 2: And anyway, I highly recommend that people go and read

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Speaker 2: that book.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's absolutely fantastic book. John John Perkins. I mean

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Speaker 3: it's a real sort of whistleblowers tal. He was inside

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Speaker 3: the beility of the base and it's it's from his

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Speaker 3: personal experience. Actually, he described himself as an economic hit

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Speaker 3: man and if if the financial and economic leaders didn't

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Speaker 3: get the trick done, then they would call the jackals,

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Speaker 3: as he put it, the jackals would come in after

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Speaker 3: the economic hitman tried to do the job. But we

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Speaker 3: can get it done, and the jackals, of course being

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Speaker 3: the CIA and the you know, the local you know,

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Speaker 3: paramilitary outlets.

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Speaker 2: And it's quite interesting now, and look we will get

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Speaker 2: back onto the topic.

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Speaker 1: But it does bring up that interesting point.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this whole I think the Chinese Belt Road

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Speaker 2: Initiative is doing similar things from a point of view

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Speaker 2: of lending big amounts of money to underdeveloped nations who

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Speaker 2: will probably end up defaulting on that, or they'll own

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Speaker 2: their ports and all of this sort of thing. It's

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Speaker 2: a kind of similar ish playbook that the Americans were

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Speaker 2: doing thirty forty years ago.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, we digress. Let's get back and talk about food.

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Speaker 2: So you came to Australia and study during night, talk

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Speaker 2: to our listeners about just give them a sense of

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Speaker 2: how the food system actually works, because I've become increasingly

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Speaker 2: concerned about a small handful of retailers here in Australia

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Speaker 2: selling most of our foods, and you know, two of them,

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Speaker 2: Woolworths and Cole's. So for our overseas listeners, excuse, but

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Speaker 2: there's two major supermarkets here that sell most of the food,

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Speaker 2: and then there's a few other chains that are smaller

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Speaker 2: than that, and a lot of smaller grocery stores and

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Speaker 2: butchers and bakers are actually being crowded out. So just

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Speaker 2: talk about what are some of the issues, the systemic

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Speaker 2: issues with that sort of a system, and also use

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Speaker 2: that to give our listeners a bit of an overview

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Speaker 2: of the overall food network. Because I don't think a

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Speaker 2: lot of people think about where the food comes from,

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Speaker 2: what the politics is, all of this sort of stuff.

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Speaker 3: No, absolutely right, So I think, yeah, the subject that

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Speaker 3: you raise in that introduction is a good place to start,

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Speaker 3: because I don't think we can have a serious conversation

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Speaker 3: about the Australian food and agricultural system if we don't

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Speaker 3: talk about the supermarkets. They are far and away the

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Speaker 3: most powerful actors in the system, and in Australia we

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Speaker 3: say that we have a duopoly. So that's you know,

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Speaker 3: two corporations you've mentioned them, Coles and Woolworths that between

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Speaker 3: them hold somewhere around sixty seven to seventy percent of

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Speaker 3: the total grocery market in this country. That's up from

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Speaker 3: around thirty five to forty fifty years ago. So they

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Speaker 3: are the dominant actors and they at the prices. They

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Speaker 3: set the prices for our farmers, and they also of

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Speaker 3: course set the prices for the consumers. And with the farmers,

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Speaker 3: I've spoken to vegetable producers in different places around Melbourne

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Speaker 3: over the last ten years fifteen years I've been doing

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Speaker 3: this work, and some of them say that they are

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Speaker 3: getting the same prices that they got back in the

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighties, like the price they're getting for their product

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Speaker 3: has not moved yet. The costs of doing business, you know,

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Speaker 3: the wages, the energy, the inputs, the water, the land,

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Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera, has obviously gone up dramatically. And

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Speaker 3: CSIRO and was this was at the end of the

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Speaker 3: nineteen nineties. I don't know that they've updated these figures,

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Speaker 3: but they were looking at the overall of Australian agriculture

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Speaker 3: at the end of the nineteen nineties and the figure

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Speaker 3: that always just has always stayed with me is that

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Speaker 3: Australian farmers at the end of the nineteen nineties needed

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Speaker 3: to produce four times the volume to earn in real terms,

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Speaker 3: just over half of what they had done fifty years

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Speaker 3: earlier in the nineteen fifties. You are kid, Yeah, So

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Speaker 3: just think about that in terms of like an insane

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Speaker 3: treadmill of production where you're just running faster and faster

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Speaker 3: in terms of production and going backwards, like you're losing money.

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Speaker 3: So how that is you know, fair, How it's sustainable,

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Speaker 3: how it's ethical, how it's the foundation of a decent

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Speaker 3: agricultural and food system in this country is you know,

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Speaker 3: just beggars belief. But that's and yet and yet farmers

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Speaker 3: you know, are still are still operating under those kinds

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Speaker 3: of terms. So that's that's I think a good place,

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Speaker 3: a good place to start. And then if we look

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Speaker 3: at consumers, you know, we've we've all heard talk in

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Speaker 3: this country and I think it's true around the world

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Speaker 3: as well about the cost of living crisis, the inflation

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Speaker 3: that we've experienced since COVID. You know, in Australia, we've

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Speaker 3: seen our housing costs go up dramatically if we're paying

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Speaker 3: the mortgage or renting with all these interest rate rises

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Speaker 3: as well as the inflation. So that's all been happening,

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Speaker 3: and the supermarkets have been making record profits during during

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Speaker 3: these years. So a lot of people are very unhappy

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Speaker 3: about that, and they're saying, well, why should we all

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Speaker 3: of us as you know, as way journers and mortgage

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Speaker 3: players and renters be doing it so damn tough. Well,

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Speaker 3: you know, over here these two are just breaking in,

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Speaker 3: you know, billion dollar profits year after year after year.

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Speaker 3: It's not it's not right. So that's actually it's a

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Speaker 3: number of inquiries that have taken place and demand for

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Speaker 3: some serious action to be taken. I don't think it's

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Speaker 3: gone anywhere near far enough. I think we've got a

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Speaker 3: long way to go to address the massive power and

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Speaker 3: balance that exists in the Australian food system. And the

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Speaker 3: other thing, and you've mentioned, we've touched on this briefly

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Speaker 3: already in terms of the food that you actually now

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Speaker 3: can buy in a supermarket. You know, the Georgia Institute

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Speaker 3: of Public Health in Sydney as documented that well over

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Speaker 3: half of it is now ultra processed or discretionary. So

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Speaker 3: people think in a suburb or a neighborhood, okay, we've

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Speaker 3: got healthy food because we've got a supermarket down the road.

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Speaker 3: But if you actually go into the supermarket and see

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Speaker 3: what the food is that's available, you know, far and

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Speaker 3: away the majority of it is not healthy and all that.

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Speaker 3: So much of that ultra process and unhealthy food is

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Speaker 3: what's discounted and marketed. It's always at the end of

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Speaker 3: the checkout aisle. You know, the cartons of Coca Cola,

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Speaker 3: it's always buy one, get the second one for forty

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Speaker 3: percent off, for half price. You know, it's it's there's

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Speaker 3: just no controls on that. You know, they've got they've

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Speaker 3: got an open, open season to market and promote and

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Speaker 3: discount these products as wherever they want to children without restraint.

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Speaker 3: And this is why we're seeing, you know, the massive

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Speaker 3: public health crisis that we are in this country. So

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Speaker 3: all these things come together in the in the supermarkets,

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Speaker 3: and as you also said, in terms of the you know,

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Speaker 3: the urban environment and the spatial environment, they are crowding

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Speaker 3: out high street businesses. You know, there's something called land

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Speaker 3: banking where if a new suburbs is going to be built,

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Speaker 3: they kind of go in there, they snap up the

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Speaker 3: prime sites, they keep competitors out, and they make it

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Speaker 3: very difficult for locally owned businesses to operate. And that's

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Speaker 3: a real problem in terms of, you know, a workably

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Speaker 3: competitive market into it's a proper choice for consumers, in

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Speaker 3: terms of fair market alternatives for producers, and in terms

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Speaker 3: of affordable access to good food. And we demonstrated this

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Speaker 3: ourselves in the twenty twenty five federal election by going

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Speaker 3: to a local green grocer. A locally owned green grocer

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Speaker 3: in Sunshine in Melbourne's West spent one hundred dollars mainly

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Speaker 3: on fresh produce, took that same shopping list with those

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Speaker 3: same weights of produce that we'd spent at Gasco's. The

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Speaker 3: local Green Grosser went to the local Woolworths in Sunshine

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Speaker 3: had to spend one hundred and twenty five dollars to

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Speaker 3: get the same shopping list full, and the differential on

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Speaker 3: some items was stark. Bananas were two and a half

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Speaker 3: times more expensive at Walworths, Roma tomatoes were four times

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Speaker 3: more expensive, Lemon grass was ten times more expensive, garlic

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Speaker 3: was three times more expensive. Like it was just it was.

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Speaker 3: It was eyewateringly stark the differences between the price. So

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Speaker 3: we're actually as part of our commitment as a healthy

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Speaker 3: in Sstainable Food Systems organization, a health promotion charity with

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Speaker 3: our partners, we've actually got a bit of funding to

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Speaker 3: go and replicate this research with groups of students from

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Speaker 3: Monash University and r MIT in different parts around the

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Speaker 3: northern and western suburbs of Melbourne as well as further

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Speaker 3: out in Victoria's West over the next few months and

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Speaker 3: we will be doing these price comparisons and having a

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Speaker 3: list of fruit and bed and doing the compar comparisons

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Speaker 3: between local Green Grosses and the supermarkets because our assumption

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Speaker 3: is that in many cases, particularly in low income neighborhoods.

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Speaker 3: It's the local businesses that will be cheaper. But people

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Speaker 3: don't think of it like that when they think about

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Speaker 3: food and where you get your food, Oh, you just

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Speaker 3: go to the supermarket, Like that's just the default. We're

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Speaker 3: wanting to challenge that assumption and also make the point

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Speaker 3: that these locally run businesses are essential to the fabric

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Speaker 3: of a diverse and connected and healthy neighborhood and suburb.

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Speaker 3: And we know, if anything, we need incentives and support

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Speaker 3: to bring more green grossers, more cultural grosses, more of

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Speaker 3: these locally owned businesses back into our neighborhoods. We've got

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Speaker 3: to start saying, look, enough of the supermarkets. They've had

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Speaker 3: it really good for fifty years. It's time to kind

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Speaker 3: of say, no, we don't need any more supermarkets. We

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Speaker 3: actually need more locally owned businesses and green grossers because

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Speaker 3: they are the ones that are not accountable to massive

386
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Speaker 3: institutional shareholders and their profit expectations like hedge funds and

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Speaker 3: so on. They actually will create local jobs for local people.

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Speaker 3: They'll support local farmers where they can, and they'll give

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Speaker 3: a fair price to their customers, and particularly in culturally

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Speaker 3: diverse areas, they will provide a much better range of

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Speaker 3: the types of veggs and fruit.

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Speaker 2: Not to Mancha Nick being a shipload fresher than the

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Speaker 2: stuff that you get in the supermarkets as well, right,

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Speaker 2: And I.

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Speaker 3: Just want to add it and not and not repped

396
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Speaker 3: in plus.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And I want to add something to this

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Speaker 2: to just from some some.

399
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Speaker 1: Personal observation.

400
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Speaker 2: So I did a bunch of work and it was

401
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Speaker 2: in New Zealand, but I think they've got a very

402
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Speaker 2: similar system here. And I was working with a big

403
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Speaker 2: food producer I won't name them. I was working with

404
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Speaker 2: their leadership team and they had a problem in that

405
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 2: they created a lot of baked goods and one of

406
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 2: the biggest supermarket came to them and said, we want

407
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Speaker 2: you to produce for us a dollar white loaf that

408
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Speaker 2: will be a supermarket own brand, right, And that dollar

409
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Speaker 2: white loaf that that they.

410
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Speaker 1: Wanted to produce.

411
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Speaker 2: To produce it was going to cost them more to

412
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Speaker 2: make it. But they said to them, if you will

413
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Speaker 2: produce that that white loaf for us, that we will

414
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Speaker 2: brand and does the supermarket one, and we will then

415
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Speaker 2: give you preferred shelf space for your major products. And

416
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Speaker 2: if you don't, we will go to your competition and

417
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 2: we'll do the deal with the competition. So the leadership

418
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 2: team we're wrangling about how much money they were going

419
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 2: to lose on giving a supermarket their brand that they

420
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 2: could brand as their own and to then be able

421
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 2: to have their products put in the primary position, you know,

422
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 2: at the end of the aisles and these things that

423
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 2: eye level all of this sort of stuff. So all

424
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 2: the stuff that you're buying in the supermarkets that is,

425
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 2: and it doesn't matter what it's this country or another country,

426
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Speaker 2: or Worlworth's home brand or Cools home brand, they're not

427
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Speaker 2: making it.

428
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Speaker 1: They're going in and they're screwing.

429
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Speaker 2: The thumbscrews of the people who are making it and

430
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 2: to do deals with them so that they can get

431
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 2: more profits on their home brand stuff.

432
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Speaker 1: Right, This is the sort of subter.

433
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 2: Fee use that goes on with these supermarkets. And I

434
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 2: think the other point next with the farmers who are.

435
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: Being increasingly screwed.

436
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 2: If they don't do the deal with calls and supermarkets,

437
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 2: what are they going to sell their product to Because

438
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 2: trying to get it to the local green grocer or whatever,

439
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 2: or particularly if you're a diry farmer, trying to get

440
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 2: those those other channels that you can sell at is crazy.

441
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 2: And I know farmers who have just shut up shop

442
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 2: because they've gone this has just become far too difficult

443
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 2: and to your point, exactly exactly completely unsustainable, right.

444
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 3: Exactly it is, Yeah, it is. It's a it's a

445
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 3: food system that is driven by the short term profit

446
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 3: interests of these big corporations, and the consequences for us

447
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 3: and for our future and future generations are just not

448
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 3: they're not factoring into their thinking. And I guess to

449
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 3: just kind of go back to you to your original

450
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 3: question about, you know, the food system and the reason

451
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 3: to kind of like make these connections and see the

452
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 3: bigger picture. You know, part of the part of the

453
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 3: crisis in the Australian food system is with the demographic

454
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 3: change in farmers and the fact that so many farmers,

455
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 3: I think the average age of farmers in Australia now

456
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 3: is over sixty, many of them are over seventy, and

457
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 3: young people are not going into agriculture for the reasons

458
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 3: that we've been discussing, because it's seen as a mug's game.

459
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 3: You know, it's just really hard work with little reward,

460
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 3: and they're just not feeling supported and that's a problem,

461
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 3: that is a huge problem, and it's not just this country,

462
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 3: and there's been similar there's a protest in the UK

463
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 3: at the moment that it's the same thing. It's like,

464
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 3: where's your food if you don't have farmers. That's the point,

465
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 3: right The soil, the soil and the water is the

466
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 3: foundation of the food system. But we need labor, we

467
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 3: need farmers to grow the food and if we don't

468
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 3: have them and they're being so screwed over by the

469
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 3: current system, it's a disaster for us that is going

470
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 3: to come around and bite us really really quickly. So

471
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 3: I think the numbers of farmers under the age of

472
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 3: thirty five in Australia is now down to about twelve

473
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 3: or thirteen percent. It was about thirty percent twenty years ago.

474
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 3: So there's a massive generational issue in how do we

475
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 3: incentivize and encourage and enable and support the next generation

476
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 3: of farmers and young people into agriculture, which is and

477
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 3: we can, you know, if we have time, we can

478
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 3: touch on this in your local context in Mornington, because

479
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 3: they're one of the few local councils in Australia that

480
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 3: are really trying to do this well and tackle this

481
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 3: issue through their food Economy and Agrocology strategy and their

482
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 3: Producer Food Economy task Force that's working with the local

483
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 3: government that's actually looking at this question amongst others, and

484
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 3: one of the other questions that they're looking at is

485
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 3: the question of sustainability and caring for the land and

486
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 3: supporting farmers to make the transition away from highly destructive,

487
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 3: chemical intensive forms of land management and agriculture that have

488
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 3: devastated this country, you know, in so many places, and

489
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 3: so much so that Australia, after you know, invasion and

490
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 3: colonization in seventeen eighty eight, has the highest rate of

491
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 3: biodiversity loss and species extinction on the planet and the

492
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 3: principal reason for that is agriculture and the massive the

493
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 3: massive landing has changed that it's brought about. So, you know,

494
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 3: that's another dimension of the food and agricultural system that

495
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 3: you know, most of us, because we're so urbanized, we're

496
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 3: one of the most urbanized countries in the world. We

497
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 3: just you know, most of us don't know a farmer. Now.

498
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 3: We don't really spend much time going out you know,

499
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,719
Speaker 3: we don't go out there to the you know, to

500
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 3: the to the countryside or you know where wheat and

501
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 3: the sheep and the cattle are raised. You know, if

502
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 3: we go on holiday, we tend to go to the coast,

503
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 3: or we get in a plane and go somewhere else.

504
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 3: We don't have a lot of connection with our own country,

505
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 3: so these issues we don't think about them. You know

506
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 3: that we our interaction with the food system is through

507
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 3: what's on the shelf at the supermarket, and that's it.

508
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 3: And we look at the price, and maybe we look

509
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 3: at the label, and maybe we think about organic, and

510
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 3: maybe we think about fair trade and some of these things.

511
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 3: But you know, these bigger issues, these structural issues and problems,

512
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 3: are just out of mind, out of sight. So in

513
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 3: my teaching in the Food Studies degree, I have an

514
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 3: assignment for my students called commodity chain analysis, which is

515
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 3: helping them to think critically back through the whole chain

516
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 3: and the food system to actually understand where the food

517
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 3: comes from and what the conditions of production actually are

518
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 3: and what all the consequences of those relationships entail. So

519
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 3: we look at coffee, for example, and the conditions of

520
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 3: the coffee producers in countries like Guatemala and Honduras, and

521
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 3: and how that you know that product gets from Honduras.

522
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 3: Let's say to you know, to a cafe in Brunswick

523
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: or or North Melbourne, and and who you know, who's

524
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 3: benefiting from that six dollars you're paying for your laste

525
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 3: or your flat white and all the you know, the complexities.

526
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 3: It's a it's a it's it's it's a it's a

527
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 3: big and important topic. But I think it's something that

528
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 3: we need to be discussing more because these issues affect

529
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 3: all of us, Like all of us eat, you know,

530
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 3: all of us are impacted by what's happening with our soils,

531
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 3: with our waterways, with the you know, with the with

532
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 3: the climate. We can't we can't pretend that this is

533
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 3: you know, somebody else's problem for someone else to And

534
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 3: if you.

535
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 2: Don't want to, if you don't want to be eating

536
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 2: lab grown food when you're when you're old, and don't

537
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 2: want your grandchildren to be mostly club grown food, we

538
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 2: need to do something about it now.

539
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 3: So that's it. Well, that's it, and exactly let's pivot.

540
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 2: Let's pivot to talk about what we can do. So,

541
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 2: so two topics here, what can the individual do and

542
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 2: all the listeners, what can they do just from a

543
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 2: purchasing perspective from.

544
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: Having your own own garden? Then what can communities do?

545
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 2: And then what what's the big stuff that you're doing

546
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 2: with obviously groups and trying to influence people. So so

547
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: pick any of those three. But I remember reading in

548
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 2: about lockdown. One of one of the benefits of lockdown.

549
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 2: I remember seeing in the UK and all these kind

550
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 2: of gardens popping up in the what do they call them,

551
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 2: the allotments, right, and people going and doing a lot

552
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 2: more gardening and allotments, and I know, I think your

553
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 2: organization has been involved with a couple of those different projects.

554
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 2: So maybe maybe talk to that and then also talk

555
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: about what we can do as consumers.

556
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: Like are there there are some.

557
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 2: Products that you're better off doing, and I know things

558
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,439
Speaker 2: like obviously farmers' markets, going to your local fruit and vegs,

559
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,959
Speaker 2: going to your local butcher those sorts of things. Maybe

560
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 2: we'll take that first, what an individual can do from

561
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 2: a purchasing perspective, and maybe growing your own Then how

562
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 2: can we put pressure on them, and what are local

563
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 2: government's doing, And then we'll maybe talk about the big

564
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 2: stuff that that's more like people like you influencing it.

565
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 3: Sure, Okay, So at the individual level, let's just talk

566
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 3: about growing some of your own food, which, according to

567
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 3: research from the Australia Institute, more than fifty percent of

568
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 3: Australians already participating in that activity in one way, shape

569
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 3: or form. And I think indeed it's a fair you know,

570
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 3: in this sport obsessination that Australia, probably the most popular

571
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 3: activity so called recreational activity is actually gardening, where a

572
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 3: nation of gardeners even more than we are a nation

573
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 3: of sports mad fanatics. So so many of us are

574
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 3: already doing this. And there's there's such power in that

575
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 3: simple act of even if it's as simple as kind

576
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 3: of like a pot of herbs on your balcony, if

577
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 3: you're in an apartment or townhouse too, if you get

578
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 3: a little bit more space, you know, having having some veggies,

579
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 3: you know, the skills you can learn, the satisfaction that

580
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 3: you can derive from, you know, that creative produce, that

581
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 3: that creative process is immense because it connects you with

582
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,919
Speaker 3: the source of life. When when you're doing that, you're

583
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 3: actually tapping in to life itself, to the you know,

584
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 3: to the cycle of life. The creative process.

585
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: And next time we've got a glimpse.

586
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 2: I havn't just written a sort of chapter on this

587
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:07,280
Speaker 2: area of my book. Spending time in nature is really

588
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 2: good for you mentally. Gardening has been shown to be

589
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 2: really good for your mental health and diversifies your microbiome.

590
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 2: Actually working the soil diversitiphise your microbiome as well. And

591
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 2: the food that you produce in your own garden is

592
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 2: going to be a shit little more nutritious than the

593
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 2: stuff that you buyd the supermarkets.

594
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 3: Right, one hundred per yep. All those points fall absolutely,

595
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 3: and indeed the mental health one is really really important.

596
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 3: And during COVID, my organization sustain did a survey. We

597
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 3: called it the Pandemic Gardening Survey. We had it open

598
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 3: for one month from mid June to mid July twenty twenty.

599
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 3: We received over nine thousand responses, so that survey nine

600
00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:01,399
Speaker 3: and forty responses from all over the country, and what

601
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 3: people said again and again was just how important it

602
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 3: was at that time of heightened anxiety to be able

603
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 3: to participate in that very calming and reassuring activity of gardening,

604
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 3: access to green space and growing some of their own food.

605
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 3: And I'll just give you. We had over twenty five

606
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 3: thousand quotes with the survey. We wrote, had many open

607
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 3: field questions and it was a moment in time when

608
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 3: people were at home in lockdown, and this touch tapped

609
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 3: into a bit of a zeitgeist, I think, and people

610
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 3: really engaged with it. And so we had over twenty

611
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 3: thousand long form answers that we're still kind of slowly

612
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 3: working our way through. But his a woman age in

613
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 3: the twenty five to thirty four bracket, living in the

614
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 3: outer suburbs of Melbourne, and she said, watching things grow

615
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 3: so helping them into the world has been enormously comforting

616
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 3: in a year when where things feel like they've been

617
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:11,399
Speaker 3: put on pause, the inexorable growth of our vegetables has

618
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 3: been a sweet and quiet lesson in motion, a sense

619
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 3: of things carrying on. And I think that, you know,

620
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 3: that was that was reflective of a sentiment of thousands

621
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 3: of respondents to this survey of the the the enormous

622
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 3: mental health benefits of access to gardening and food growing

623
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 3: at that time. But I think it's you know, it's

624
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 3: a it's a general, a general statement that holds very true.

625
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 3: So the simple act of growing some of your own

626
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 3: food I think would be a really positive and empowering

627
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 3: thing for people to do. I'm sure many of your

628
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 3: listeners already do it, but if you if you haven't

629
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 3: tried it, it's it's not that hard. It's just a

630
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 3: couple of pots and some soil and some ceilings and

631
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 3: care and attention and and it's it becomes a militative practice.

632
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 3: I think it's it became and it was, you know,

633
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 3: a daily ritual people who are answering with survey, So

634
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 3: that would be that would be I guess the first thing.

635
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: Sorry, I was just added to that.

636
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 2: Actually, the in the island of Okinawa in Japan, and

637
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 2: I identterviewed a professor Ken Mogi, and and you know

638
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 2: it's known as one of the centers for.

639
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,879
Speaker 1: Longevity, and there's I think there's been.

640
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 2: A bit few misrep representations about why Ken Mogi was

641
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 2: saying a lot of the older people there they have

642
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 2: an ikey guy of growing their own food. Right, that

643
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 2: is that that this ikey guy, that Japanese what gets

644
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 2: you up in the morning. And and it's when when

645
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 2: they have been surveyed, they say that that that gives

646
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 2: them the joy to be able to grow their own

647
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 2: food and to eat their own food.

648
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: And eat it as a community.

649
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,760
Speaker 2: That's a hue huge reason why they are much longer lived.

650
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 2: And we have actually started doing it more, Kylie. But

651
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: I've actually started getting into it, and we're actually now

652
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 2: expanding out.

653
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: Of the herbs and the strawberries and those sorts of things.

654
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 2: And I'm about to get a greenhearst because we have

655
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 2: actually felt the benefits of it, and it's it's a

656
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 2: mindful activity, you know, it is one of those gay

657
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 2: So I echo everything that that Leally said in.

658
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: The court.

659
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 3: Absolutely. And I love the fact that you mentioned joy

660
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 3: and pleasure because that's really important as well. And I

661
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 3: think that's something that we've perhaps lost touch with in

662
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 3: Australia in you know, in our culture where everything's so

663
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 3: much about you know, material things and consumption and you

664
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 3: know career progress and you know financial you know all

665
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 3: the all the metrics, both for ourselves as individuals, but

666
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 3: for our society it's so instrumentalized and so you know,

667
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 3: reduced to you know, financial metrics that we've lost. I

668
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 3: think in some ways we've lost touch with the more

669
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 3: you know, spiritual foundational elements of life. That are really

670
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 3: what gives life meaning and purpose, and the joy of

671
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 3: gardening is a is a really important aspect of that.

672
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 3: Not just just briefly share with you another aspect of this,

673
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 3: another you know another quote and we're just you know

674
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 3: by co author Kelly Dinati and I just had this

675
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 3: chapter published in a book about this. The joy that

676
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 3: people derived in so many different ways from being able

677
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 3: to garden, not just not just growing the food, but

678
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 3: observing the interactions of other creatures in the garden. So

679
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 3: bees observing bees feeding in the garden was a particular

680
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 3: source of joy for some. And this person said, what

681
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 3: all the native bees going crazy over my pineapple sage

682
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 3: makes me happier and more content than you could believe.

683
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 3: I think that's just really it seems such a small thing,

684
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 3: but I think it's really there's so much beauty and

685
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 3: power in that where you can you know, by having

686
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 3: having that flowering plant, you're giving food to others, to

687
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:30,320
Speaker 3: other creatures, You're you're nourishing them, that you're nourishing yourself

688
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:35,760
Speaker 3: spiritually and mentally as well, simply by creating that that beauty,

689
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 3: those aesthetics, and then being able to go out there

690
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 3: and see the bees, you know, do do what they do,

691
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 3: and just lose yourself in that. In that moment, it's really.

692
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 2: And now moment where we can have a positive contribution

693
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,839
Speaker 2: to the ecosystem of the earth and try to offset

694
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 2: something some of our obvious destruction just by by having

695
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 2: to exist, you by not not intentionally, but just all

696
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 2: the things that we do, the things that we consume

697
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 2: are probably not negative for the ecosystem of the earth.

698
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 2: So if you can just balance it that little bit

699
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 2: and get a bonus for your mental health, a bonus

700
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 2: for your physical health as well, and take some money

701
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 2: out of the freakin' supermarkets pockets, then there's got to

702
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 2: be a when we're not all around.

703
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 3: Right one hundred percent one hundred percent pull Okay, So

704
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 3: from gardening then obviously, you know most of us are

705
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 3: going to get most of our food not from what

706
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 3: we grow ourselves, but from what we purchase. And I

707
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 3: think we've already talked about this. I mean, every purchasing

708
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 3: decision that you can make which doesn't involve the supermarket,

709
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 3: to optly is a good a good decision, I think.

710
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 3: And if you can support your local farmer, be it

711
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 3: at your local farmer's market or you know there are

712
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 3: direct there are direct ways of doing that in some

713
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 3: parts of the city. But even just going to a

714
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 3: locally owned business, a locally owned green grosser, of which

715
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 3: which you know there are still plenty around the city

716
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 3: if you do look for them, I think that's really

717
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 3: a really positive thing to do. Support your locally owned businesses,

718
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 3: their family run businesses. They're not being accountable to remote shareholders,

719
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 3: they're not driven by profit maximization. They're there the reasons

720
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 3: of passion. You know, they're running that business because you

721
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 3: know it's been in their family or it's what they're

722
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 3: passionate about. And if we can get behind them and

723
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 3: support them, I think those are all really you know,

724
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 3: good things that we can do on a daily and

725
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 3: weekly basis. All right, So those from individuals, then too

726
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 3: at the community level, you know, community gardens, if you

727
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 3: again to going back to growing food and participating in

728
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 3: those kinds of activities, if you do want to get

729
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 3: into it more seriously, you know, participating in the community

730
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 3: garden is a great thing to do. It's you know,

731
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 3: one of the other crises that we're facing is I'm

732
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 3: sure you know is is loneliness and social isolation that

733
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 3: has been a real feature in the way of our economy,

734
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 3: particularly in the Anglo Saxon world, has has developed in

735
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 3: these decades of neoliberalism. It's you know, people have become

736
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 3: adomized and isolated and lonely. And that's another reason why

737
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 3: mental health and stress is such a you know, such

738
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 3: such big, you know, big problems in society. So you

739
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,959
Speaker 3: know that they've said that, you know, the so called

740
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 3: third spaces that we used to have, you know, decades

741
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 3: ago in our towns and cities have disappeared and vanished,

742
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 3: and you know, we only have kind of you know, constructed,

743
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 3: commodified opportunities to gather together in collectivities at you know,

744
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 3: commercial sport and and the like. So community gardens are

745
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 3: one of those third spaces where it's not it's not

746
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 3: about money, it's not about a commodified commercial experience, and

747
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 3: simply people joining together because they're you know, they're interested

748
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 3: in pursuing this activity together and there's an opportunity to

749
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 3: to learn and socialize in a relaxed, pleasing way. And

750
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 3: it's a great form of you know, light exercise. I

751
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 3: know that you've spoken about this, you know, the benefits

752
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 3: of physical activity and how important that is for you,

753
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 3: you know, your mental health and your bodily health. So

754
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:10,839
Speaker 3: so that's a really a really good thing to do.

755
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,240
Speaker 3: You know, if you've got children, if you've got families

756
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 3: and schools to you know, support them to to get

757
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 3: a garden happening at the school if they don't already

758
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 3: have one.

759
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 1: You just took the world. You just took the words

760
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: out of my mouth.

761
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 2: Actually, I did some some work with a specialist school.

762
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 2: It was a bunch of principals and they were for

763
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 2: specialist schools, so you know, these are the teachers that cheesee,

764
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: they do the hard yaka. And because of the talk

765
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 2: that I did, one of the principals at one of

766
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 2: the schools and they then brought me back in to

767
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 2: show me everything, and they completely changed their canteen. They

768
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 2: stopped selling chips and crappy food and they said that

769
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 2: the students that were young it was a primary school,

770
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 2: this is students are almost revolting.

771
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 1: But they started they got the students involved.

772
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 2: With growing a lot of the food that they then

773
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 2: sold into the talk shop, and so the students then

774
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,879
Speaker 2: were eating their own food and a lot of these

775
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 2: these kids had had disabilities, whether it was physical or

776
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 2: intellectual disabilities.

777
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: And he said the change.

778
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 2: In the students after that first bit of resistance was

779
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 2: just amazing.

780
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: So I fully endorsed that.

781
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 2: You know, as parents, if you know somebody a parent

782
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 2: on the committee, just harassed them or get on the

783
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 2: committee and and just harass the well being and people

784
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 2: in the school to say, if you don't have a garden,

785
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 2: let's get a garden, Let's get the kids involved in it,

786
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 2: Let's get them having an understanding of this.

787
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 3: Absolutely. And there's there's two fantastic initiatives that have taken

788
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 3: the next level in Victoria that if you if you

789
00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 3: each of them happy to put you in touch with them.

790
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 3: One is called farm Raiser and that's a special development

791
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 3: school in Bellfield in West Heidelberg and that they these

792
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 3: are and this was the initiative of three students graduating

793
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 3: from Melbourne University's granted urban horticulture a few years ago.

794
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 2: And that is bloody awesome. The stuff that's going in

795
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 2: those three is good. So if you're a parent, go

796
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 2: and harassed your shoulders are politely suggest that they might

797
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 2: want to do something like this.

798
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 1: So what then about local government.

799
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 2: What sort of local government initiatives are going on that

800
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 2: can be helpful here.

801
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question, and I just want to

802
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 3: say one of the reasons why I love working in

803
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 3: this space and doing this work is because there's so

804
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 3: many great things happening, Like it's such a creative, energizing space.

805
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 3: There's so much positivity and good people doing amazing work

806
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 3: for the very best of reasons. And that's that's another reason,

807
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,720
Speaker 3: you know, to get involved in terms of local government.

808
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:06,720
Speaker 3: They have a really important role to play in this space,

809
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 3: not least because they they manage land and they can

810
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 3: make that land available for people to do activities such

811
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:18,240
Speaker 3: as urban farms and community gardens and where ourselves benefit

812
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 3: from that. In the city of Durban, we've been running

813
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 3: an urban farm on what used to be called the

814
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 3: Melbourne Innovation Center at Alphington. This, interestingly, was one of

815
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,720
Speaker 3: Melbourne's most contaminated and polluted sites. It was an ex

816
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 3: landfill that was capped I think about thirty or forty

817
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 3: years ago, and now it's become a bit of an

818
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 3: urban agri food hub with a weekly farmers market with

819
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 3: two women growing oyster mushrooms and shipping containers with the

820
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 3: urban farm that we're running, yeah, and with a waste

821
00:49:55,360 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 3: business reground, a social enterprise that provides waste auditing services

822
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 3: to the hospitality sector and takes away coffee grounds and

823
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 3: donates them the community gardens. So it's a little cluster

824
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 3: of food food related activities and it's all land owned

825
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 3: by the City of Darrabin, so they make that space

826
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 3: available for all these social enterprises and organizations to do

827
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 3: this work and for us. Also up at Bundura Park Farm,

828
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 3: which is one of Melbourne's original original farms poster colonization,

829
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 3: we have had a license from Durbin Council half an

830
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,320
Speaker 3: acre of land up there for the past two years

831
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 3: and we have used that to create a First Nations

832
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 3: Food Fiber and Medicine garden on one paddock and on

833
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 3: the adjacent paddock a more traditional European style market garden.

834
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:51,879
Speaker 3: The First Nation's Food, Fiber and Market Garden has been

835
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:56,240
Speaker 3: such a satisfying project. Through some of the philanthropic funding

836
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 3: we've had, we've been able to employ a yaw to

837
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 3: your what a woman, an artist, a musician who did

838
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 3: one of our rounds of paid internships. You know, she

839
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,479
Speaker 3: loves doing that work, and she's now leading a group

840
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 3: of eight First Nations people in a ten week paid

841
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 3: internship that we're commencing next week, which will be helping

842
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 3: them to recover connection to country, recovery of cultural knowledge,

843
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 3: the plants that were grown here pre colonization, to visit

844
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 3: other First Nations run sites around the city, and to

845
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 3: build that sense of community and connection. And we've also

846
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 3: got a yarning circle and the fire pit you know

847
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 3: for smoking ceremonies up there at that site. So that's

848
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 3: all been made possible by the Yeah, it's really exciting

849
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 3: and fantastic, and it's been supported by the City of

850
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 3: Durbin in making that land available to us at a,

851
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 3: you know, a pretty favorable rate. So those are kinds

852
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 3: of things that local governments can do. They can also

853
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 3: bring community together and having the kinds of conversations you

854
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 3: and I have been having, creating spaces for communities to

855
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,280
Speaker 3: have them with each other about these issues. So we've

856
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 3: been part of that process ourselves many times, going back

857
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 3: to twenty sixteen with Cardinia Shire Council and the creation

858
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 3: of the Cardinia Community Food Strategy that we helped facilitate

859
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 3: with I think it was about fifty small group talks,

860
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 3: kitchen table conversations, people sitting around a table having these

861
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 3: kinds of discussions that being documented, and all those you know,

862
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 3: all those inputs going into writing up the council Community

863
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 3: Food Strategy to the City of Banuel in twenty twenty

864
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 3: two to twenty three, when we supported them to engage

865
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,959
Speaker 3: with over six hundred local residents and create the City

866
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 3: of Anuel's first urban food strategy. To Mornington Peninsula Shy

867
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 3: Council's Food Economy and agro Ecology Strategy, which has been

868
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 3: driven by a council by the Agribusiness Officer Sarah Saxton,

869
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 3: to work with local producers and help them make the

870
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 3: shift to sustainable and regenitive forms of food production on

871
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 3: the peninsula. So, you know, those are just a handful

872
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 3: of examples. We've been working with local governments ourselves for

873
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 3: the better part of ten years now and can see

874
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:16,240
Speaker 3: the difference it makes when they actually understand these issues

875
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 3: and really work with and get behind community members to

876
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,359
Speaker 3: put some you know, some cohesion and longer term vision

877
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 3: and strategies and goals around this work. So that's local now,

878
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:30,360
Speaker 3: state government, and federal government.

879
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 2: Obviously presumably next sorry before before you get onto state

880
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 2: and federal presumably individuals like me will have more of

881
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,320
Speaker 2: an impact going and talking to the local.

882
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 3: Government, absolutely, and federal government, Yeah, because exactly, you're right, Yeah,

883
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 3: because because they're much more accessible. You know, it's much

884
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 3: you know, they're the closest level of government to people,

885
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 3: to communities that you know, anyone can go along to

886
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 3: council meetings, you can you can seek meetings with your

887
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 3: men and your counselors and uh and involve yourself in

888
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 3: the process. And I guess, you know, for me, coming

889
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 3: back to what I said at the start in terms

890
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:13,280
Speaker 3: of my entry point into this whole area, it's it's

891
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:18,320
Speaker 3: it's it's also about breeding life back into our democratic culture,

892
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 3: because I feel that is also part of the crisis

893
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,720
Speaker 3: that we're facing. We've become very cynical and jaded about

894
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 3: about politics, about about government, about how these decisions are

895
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 3: making are made with you know, with perfectly good reason,

896
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,879
Speaker 3: because we can see that the decisions are not being

897
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 3: made in our interests. But you know, despair is not

898
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 3: the answer. And I think, you know a lot of

899
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 3: people would be very happy if more and more people

900
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 3: did just throw up their hands in despair and say, well,

901
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 3: it's all hopeless, and you know, there's nothing we can do,

902
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 3: because if if, if that's the aatitude that we take

903
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 3: and we don't do anything, then nothing will ever change,

904
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 3: and we'll only it will only get worse. It's only

905
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 3: I think by embracing the antithesis of despair, which is hope,

906
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,479
Speaker 3: and saying that what happens next, both in my own

907
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 3: life but in broader social life, is up to us. Really,

908
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 3: we need to be the agents of change ourselves and

909
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 3: be active and be engaged and involving ourselves at the

910
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 3: local level with processes like creating food strategies is a

911
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 3: good place to start. So at the state level, at

912
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 3: the state level and federal level, we need the state

913
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:34,280
Speaker 3: government to get engaged. We've talked about the ultra process

914
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,479
Speaker 3: food industry, the burden of chronic disease. A big part

915
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,879
Speaker 3: of the problem is that in the Victorian planning provisions,

916
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,760
Speaker 3: the word health is not mentioned, the word well being

917
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 3: is not mentioned, the word for the phrase food security

918
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 3: is not mentioned. And that means that the fast food industry,

919
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 3: as long as it's in you know, the so called

920
00:55:55,239 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 3: activity zone of the planning visions. Local governments have no

921
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 3: power to stop the expansion of of those businesses, and

922
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 3: they can set up and have set up across the

923
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 3: road from daycare centers, from early learning centers, and from

924
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 3: schools and primary schools. So this is a political.

925
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: Question in an accident that is not an accident, right.

926
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 3: No, it absolutely not exactly exactly. And look at how

927
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 3: they you know, you look at how they market and

928
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 3: promote their products. So there what audience they're targeting rights,

929
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 3: it's kids, it's it's young kids. This is wrong, you know,

930
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 3: if you know, if we're concerned about health and wellbeing

931
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 3: of our city, of our country, we cannot let this

932
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 3: industry which does not care about health and well being.

933
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 3: It cares about its bottom line, it cares about its profits,

934
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 3: just to have carte blanche to expand wherever and whenever

935
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 3: it was. But to change this we actually have to

936
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 3: get involved in the political process. So we did that.

937
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 3: My organization met with politicians in twenty twenty three. That

938
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 3: led to the establishment of two food security inquiries in

939
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 3: the Victorian Parliament last year, one looking at the mental

940
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 3: and dietary impacts of food poverty and food health in Victoria.

941
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 3: As well as what can be done to expand affordable

942
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 3: access to good food. And the second one was looking

943
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 3: at securing Victorian Victoria's food supply and the impacts of

944
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 3: population growth and urban sprawl on food security. So both

945
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 3: those committees and we gave evidence, we made submissions, we

946
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 3: encouraged others to get evidence. Those committees reported in November

947
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 3: last year quite ambitious recommendations. They talked about legislating the

948
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 3: human rights good food for all in Victoria. They talked

949
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 3: about Victorian food system strategy, they talked about changing the

950
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 3: planning provisions. As I just mentioned the whole raft of things.

951
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 3: It's like a really solid reform agenda for the Victorian government. Unfortunately,

952
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 3: the Victorian government lasts not the week before last, issued

953
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 3: its report to those recommendations, which was very underwhelming. To

954
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 3: be frank, they did not embrace an ambitious reform agenda.

955
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 3: They said, well, we're already doing these kinds of things.

956
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 3: We're already getting a lot of money to food bank.

957
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 3: You know, we're kind of we've got it covered, we don't,

958
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 3: you know, We'll look at some of these things maybe

959
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 3: later on down the line and see if we think

960
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 3: it needs to be done. So that's disappointing. I'm not saying, well,

961
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 3: that's you know, end of story. We're coming into an

962
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 3: election next to you in Victoria. This T shirt that

963
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 3: I've got on I Vote for Food. We have got

964
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 3: a campaign that we want to run where we want

965
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 3: candidates and sitting members to sign our pledge. There's five

966
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 3: elements of our Vote for Food Pledge and we can

967
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 3: share this link with the viewers later that are calling

968
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 3: for a healthy and fair food system that prioritizes human

969
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 3: and ecological health as the top priorities. And we want

970
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 3: our politicians to sign up to that. You know, we

971
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:06,959
Speaker 3: think that's what they should be doing as our representatives.

972
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 3: So that's the campaign that we'll be running going into the.

973
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 1: Did you const sorry? I love that. I love that

974
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 1: you're getting into the action.

975
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 2: Did you did you and your group ever consider creating

976
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 2: a political party.

977
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 3: It's funny you should say that because one of my

978
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 3: staff members, who comes from a farming family is a

979
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 3: Kiwi and he's going back there next year, is actually yeah, throwing, throwing,

980
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 3: that's the path he's going down. He's saying, you know,

981
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 3: you've got to you've got to get in there and

982
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 3: roll your sleeves up and getting the political process if

983
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 3: you want change, So he's he's doing that. I have

984
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 3: not gone down that path yet, but we are. We

985
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 3: are building. We're trying to build a mass membership. That's

986
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 3: that's the next phase of our work. We've got a

987
00:59:56,280 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 3: digital platform called the Australian Food Network where we're wanting

988
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 3: to bring together people all around the country who care

989
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 3: about these things and want to find other people who

990
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 3: care about them and who want to share these kinds

991
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 3: of stories. I've been talking about stories of inspiration and

992
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 3: hope and to work together. So if we can, you know,

993
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 3: if we can start to build some membership. We've got

994
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 3: about two hundred and fifty three hundred so far. If

995
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 3: we can get that, you know, up over a thousand

996
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 3: and beyond, then then yeah, quite quite possibly. I think

997
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 3: it's something that's definitely worth considering, definitely worth considering. But

998
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:34,919
Speaker 3: I just wanted to finish perhaps with this discussion about

999
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 3: you know, bigger picture change and policy, to talk about

1000
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 3: the federal government because obviously they're the you know, the

1001
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 3: biggest resource they've got with us where most of the

1002
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 3: money is. You know, they could do things like put

1003
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 3: a super profits tax on the supermarket and invest in

1004
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 3: urban farms and community gardens and school gardens. They could

1005
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,439
Speaker 3: use that money to invest in universal school meals, which

1006
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 3: other countries have done. You know, That's that's where the

1007
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 3: doal can really be shifted. So we have an opportunity

1008
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 3: right now because as part of our Voat for Food campaign,

1009
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:09,120
Speaker 3: we called on the federal government to commit to a

1010
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 3: national food security strategy, and that's what the Albanezi government

1011
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 3: did in March. They said they were going to create

1012
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 3: the Feeding Australia Strategy it's called. So now we're expecting

1013
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 3: them later this month or in September to make the

1014
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 3: first announcements about what that process is going to be

1015
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 3: and where it's going to go forward. So we've been

1016
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 3: meeting with the bureaucrats, the food policy team at DAFT,

1017
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 3: the Department of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries. We have been

1018
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 3: saying to them, this has to be a participatory process.

1019
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 3: You cannot say, Okay, we've allocated three and a half

1020
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 3: million the federal money to develop this strategy, We're just

1021
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,440
Speaker 3: going to chuck that to Price waterhouse Coopers or somebody

1022
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 3: like that. Lock them in a room with Coles and

1023
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 3: Wolworths in Australian Food and Grocery Council and right up.

1024
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 3: A strategy that's all about the interest of the big

1025
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 3: end of towns needs to be open, it needs to

1026
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 3: be participatory, it needs to be inclusive, It needs to

1027
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 3: prioritize our first nations, communities, and it needs to prioritize

1028
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 3: the people who are living with food poverty and food insecurity,

1029
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 3: because that should be the priority of a national food

1030
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:19,919
Speaker 3: security strategy. So that's what we've been saying to them,

1031
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 3: that's what we expect them to do, and we are.

1032
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 3: It's an open invitation to work with people around the

1033
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 3: country to involve ourselves in this process. And we've got

1034
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 3: some ideas approaches about how we might take that take

1035
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 3: that forward, but that's going to be starting, you know,

1036
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 3: quite quite solod.

1037
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:40,439
Speaker 1: Awesome, Nick.

1038
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 2: This has been a very eye opening podcast that I

1039
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 2: think affects everybody, whether you're an Australian listener, you're not

1040
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 2: an Australian listener. I mean, I would imagine we could

1041
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 2: look at many developed nations and the CM systemic issues

1042
01:02:56,320 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 2: would be present in those nations. Look, there's teach cooms

1043
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 2: here for individuals, but if they want to assess you

1044
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 2: in your really important work and what sort of things

1045
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 2: should they should they be doing this the Australian Food

1046
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 2: Network presumably they can go and join that and we'll

1047
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 2: put all the links into the show notes. But what

1048
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 2: would you like those who are concerned citizens who go, actually,

1049
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 2: I want to do something about this, even if it

1050
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:29,000
Speaker 2: is just giving my support to the people who are

1051
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 2: actually taking the action.

1052
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 1: How can we help?

1053
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 3: Thank you? Thank you, Paul. Yeah, so I'm glad you

1054
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 3: mentioned citizens because that is something that we're talking about here,

1055
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 3: food citizenship, food democracy. Let's get involved. If we want

1056
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 3: to change the food system, we have to get involved

1057
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 3: in shaping it, and that means inhabiting our identity as citizens,

1058
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 3: as participants in this policy that we that we call Australia.

1059
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:59,040
Speaker 3: So I would say join, join us. You can become

1060
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 3: a member, We'll share the link. It's sixty dollars a

1061
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 3: year and that will connect you to the Australian Food

1062
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 3: Network platform where you'll be meeting hundreds of people around

1063
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 3: the country who are also on this journey, who've been

1064
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:15,919
Speaker 3: working in their own communities in different ways for many,

1065
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 3: many years. We have monthly webinars, we caught skill of

1066
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 3: the month where people can learn and understand different aspects

1067
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 3: of the food system and how to change it. We've

1068
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 3: got the Vote for Food campaign that will be ongoing,

1069
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 3: so that will also be a link, and you can

1070
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 3: sign the pledge and add your name to support the

1071
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 3: Vote for Food Pledge. Those would probably be the two,

1072
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 3: I guess the two main calls to action. Consider becoming

1073
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 3: a member of sustain and sign the Vote for Food Pledge,

1074
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 3: Join the Australian Food Network and you know find you know,

1075
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 3: find your fellows, your fellow companions in your local communities

1076
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 3: and and get involved. There's so many different entry points

1077
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 3: to this, so many different ways to be involved, and

1078
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 3: as I said, it's such a positive and empowering space

1079
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 3: to be in so many ways. So yeah today, you know,

1080
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:14,120
Speaker 3: seize the moments.

1081
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 2: And I would add into yeah, absolutely and give up

1082
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 2: ten minutes of your time and take the extra trip

1083
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 2: to the local green grocer and boucher sother than just

1084
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 2: the supermarket.

1085
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 1: Awesome, Nick, this has been great. Thank you. I tip

1086
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 1: my hat to you.

1087
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 2: So you're doing purposeful work and keep going, keep building

1088
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 2: that steam up because it's important stuff.

1089
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you very much. Paul, I'm grateful for

1090
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 3: the opportunity and yeah, thank you, thank you for giving

1091
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 3: me the time to share some of my story and

1092
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 3: why I do this work. And you know it really

1093
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:52,440
Speaker 3: it's the important work. I think, as Wendelberry said, you know,

1094
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 3: this is part of the great work that you know,

1095
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 3: all of us are live today, are engaged in. You know,

1096
01:05:57,160 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 3: I think all of us have to ask the question

1097
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 3: why are we alive? Are we here?

1098
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 1: Uh?

1099
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 3: And for me it is to try and make you know,

1100
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 3: the positive change that I can with the experience and

1101
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 3: skills and capacities and energy that I have. And and yeah,

1102
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 3: it's been it's been an honor and a pleasure to

1103
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:13,440
Speaker 3: speak with you about it.

1104
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 2: Wow, awesome, Thanks Matte.