1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: on which this podcast was produced, the Galligall people of 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: the Urination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present. 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 2: It's November twenty twenty three and the world's detention is 5 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 2: fixed on the towering Himalayas in northern India. A landslide 6 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 2: has thus caused part of a tunnel to collapse, trapping 7 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 2: forty one workers for seventeen days. These men are cut 8 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 2: off from the outside world, their survival hanging by a thread. 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 2: Enter Arnold Dix. Arnold is no stranger to disasters. He's 10 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 2: worked on emergencies as complex as the Twin Towers collapse 11 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 2: and the London bombings, but this is different. Called in 12 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 2: to oversee the rescue mission, Arnold brings a unique mix 13 00:00:54,200 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: of expertise. He's a geologist, engineer, lawyer, and risk stress. 14 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 2: Just bearded, calm and clad in hives, Arnold radiates confidence 15 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 2: to a watching world. He makes a bold promise. 16 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 3: There's forty one men coming home and there's no one 17 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,479 Speaker 3: else going to be hurt, and that's the mission. 18 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 4: Mission mission. 19 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 2: Over seventeen suspenseful days, Arnold leads one of the most 20 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 2: remarkable rescue missions in recent memory. He battles an unforgiving 21 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 2: mountain and brings every man out alive. The result a 22 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 2: victory that has made Arnold Dix a household name, not 23 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 2: just in India but across the globe. I'm at Middleton 24 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 2: and this is Headgame today, the story of a man 25 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 2: who brought together science, leadership, and a touch of humility 26 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 2: to achieve the impossible. Mister Arnold Dix, how are you, buddy? 27 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 2: How's life treating you? 28 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 4: Yeah? 29 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 3: Well, and I'm feeling good and life's treading me very well. 30 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 3: And I'm alive and yeah, I'm literally living the dream 31 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 3: like it's fantastic. 32 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 2: Alive and kicking as I. 33 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 4: Said, Yeah, absolutely, And. 34 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: That's ultimately what you do. You keep people alive and kicking. Now, 35 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 2: Arnold is literally a life saver. Donold, how was your upbringing? 36 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: Talk to me about your upbringing and were you always 37 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 2: interested in exploring in caves and tunnels and how does 38 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 2: that come? 39 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm just a hotel keeper's kid, and so 40 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 3: in Australia, you know, my parents would go from hotel 41 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 3: to hotel and so place to place, and it meant 42 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 3: I was exposed to different people, different places, different just 43 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 3: different stuff. And it made me a bit of an adventurer. 44 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 3: So I'm interested in everything alive. I'm interested in everything 45 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 3: in Jineer. I'm interested in from a very early age, rocks, 46 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 3: which seemed a bit weird as a kid. And yeah 47 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 3: that's my early upbringing. Nothing flashy in my family, nothing 48 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 3: flashy with me as a student, in fact, a remedial 49 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 3: student early on, and as really get very basic Aussie upbringing. 50 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 3: And yeah, so that's me, Like, there's nothing remarkable, you know, 51 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 3: just that I'm sure. 52 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 2: I'm sure there is. And I'm going to coax out 53 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 2: of you, nd I'm sure there's something in there. As 54 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: a child, you say, you know, he used to like rocks. 55 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: We all do as kids, you know. I think back 56 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 2: in you know, in our era. And I say that 57 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 2: because you know, technology wasn't a thing. But back then, 58 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 2: you know, we didn't have phones. We didn't have iPads, 59 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: We certainly didn't have mobile phones. We used to be 60 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 2: out and about, didn't we pick up locks used to 61 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 2: fascinate me. I used to pick up some rocks and 62 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: I used to compare them with others. I used to 63 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 2: have a look at it to see if there were 64 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: any diamonds in there. You know, just this the thing 65 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: that you do as kids. So did that really spark 66 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: your interest to become to take it as a career. 67 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think that is that that real excitement 68 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 3: as a kid, like could there. 69 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 4: Be a diamond in it? Is there gold in it? 70 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, exactly. 71 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 3: And around where I lived so different different places of 72 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 3: their old minds, so of course you went and tried 73 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 3: to get into the old minds. When I got to 74 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 3: about I think grade four, I was up in the 75 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 3: mountains of Australia called Snowy Mountains, a lot of tunnels 76 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 3: up there, with a snowy scheme and a lot of 77 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 3: old blokes getting drunk and happy to take a kid 78 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 3: under their shoulder to show them what they did, you know, 79 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 3: a few years ago. 80 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 4: So rocks. There's also a link between me and the. 81 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 3: Old timers, like, come here, young fellow, I'm going to 82 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 3: share a thing or two. And that was Yeah. I 83 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 3: think that influenced me a lot. And there was I 84 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 3: suppose a quirky thing as well. Those old timers were 85 00:04:55,200 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 3: mostly refugees from post Second World War Europe, and you'd 86 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 3: get like an old German guy who literally was X 87 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 3: S S or something, and he talked to you like, well, 88 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 3: the lady I work with in the kitchen, so I 89 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 3: used to do breakfasts and she would talk to me 90 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:18,359 Speaker 3: about going to the rallies with Adolf and what it 91 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 3: felt like. Wow, And you're like, I'm just a little kid, 92 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 3: like I'm just running breakfast trace and instead of watching 93 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 3: the World at War on TV, I've got and I 94 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 3: remember her name with Missus Kluger was her name, And 95 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 3: she'd tell me stories of war, the you know, Second 96 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 3: World War Germany. And so that combined with the men 97 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 3: showing me the tunnels a very rich and unusual sort 98 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 3: of environment to grow up in. 99 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 2: I can imagine. Did that really coax you into into 100 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 2: wanting to, you know, go into a career and into 101 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 2: further education to study. 102 00:05:58,160 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 4: Oh. 103 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 3: I just like learn and stuff and I like doing stuff, 104 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 3: and so the combination drew me to practical sorts of things. 105 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 3: So geology mining engineering is the first thing I do. 106 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 3: And that's cool because you get to do sort of 107 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 3: nature stuff but in extreme environments. And so you can 108 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 3: travel to these amazing locations and then get involved with 109 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 3: really amazing machines, meet characters because in the mining area 110 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 3: you meet all sorts of interesting personality disorders, which is 111 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 3: wonderful thing preparing you for the future, and they combine 112 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 3: well with all the characters in the hotel. So I've 113 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 3: always really enjoyed being a child, and I hope I 114 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 3: never stopped being a child, but a child in a 115 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 3: grown ups world and just watching how all the different 116 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 3: characters and personalities come together to form groups and how 117 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 3: they do stuff together, and that's really fascinating. 118 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:00,799 Speaker 2: And what a combination as well, geology and engineering You've got. 119 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,239 Speaker 2: You know, you've got the fascination of how the earth 120 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 2: is you know, is created, or how the earth you know, 121 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 2: fits together, and then that side of being able to 122 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 2: sort of dismantle it and have a look at it 123 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 2: and you know, explore it in its entirety is a 124 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 2: fascination combination. 125 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 4: It is. 126 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 3: And you, because you're doing the mining, you suddenly realize 127 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 3: that the earth is alive, so it's not so rocks 128 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 3: instead of being the e static things that you look 129 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 3: at and maybe something you throw on a pond or 130 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 3: at a friend or maybe at an enemy instead of 131 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 3: just as a weab. You start to learn that they 132 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 3: they're alive, and they move and they bend, and they 133 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 3: can be plastic, and they can be elastic, and they 134 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 3: can fracture and they can explode, and they can all 135 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 3: do all of that in five minutes on your head 136 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 3: if you're not watching. And so suddenly what began as 137 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 3: a childlike fascination with rocks ends up being, Oh my god, 138 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 3: the world is alive, this this underground world, and these 139 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 3: mountains are moving, and and to do the sorts of 140 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 3: things that I end up doing, I have to be 141 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 3: really sensitive to this very dynamic, very amazingly not. 142 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 4: What you think a rock would be like, Hello, I'm 143 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 4: a rock. I do nothing. 144 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 3: No, no, no, These rocks are like, hey, Arnold, have 145 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 3: I got some surprises for you today? 146 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 4: So, yeah, it's fascinating. 147 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 2: So you finished education and when when do you? Because 148 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 2: you've been on multiple let's call them rescues or whether 149 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: it's mines, whether it's caves, tunnels, you've been on when 150 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 2: was your first call? And did you ever think that 151 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 2: you wanted to go down that road of rescuing people 152 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 2: or did someone to say, hey, this guy knows you 153 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 2: know absolutely everything about about tunnels and geology and engineering. 154 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 2: Let's let's give him a call. 155 00:08:59,280 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 4: Nah. 156 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 3: So actually I've never rescued anyone alive before, you see. 157 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 4: That's so this is part of the twist in all 158 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 4: of this. 159 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 3: So normally when I get called in, everyone dies, and 160 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 3: often some of us do as well, And so my 161 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 3: job is to although of course we'd like to save people, 162 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 3: despite what's in the newspapers, despite what's in the movies, 163 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 3: normally everyone's dead. 164 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:33,239 Speaker 4: And so. 165 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 3: I'm really I'm more about Yes, I come and we 166 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 3: try and learn what's gone wrong. But normally people come 167 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 3: out in bags. And in fact, in my book, I 168 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 3: can't remember exactly the words I use, but I say, 169 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 3: that's perhaps my biggest lie. 170 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 4: That's my lie. 171 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 3: By omission, I never told anyone I'd never managed to 172 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 3: rescue anyone alive before. 173 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 4: See why. 174 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 3: I promised that we would rescue forty one people, and 175 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 3: I promised that none of us were going to get hurt. 176 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 3: But the fact is I've never done that before, because 177 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 3: it never ends that way for me ever, not one wow. Okay, 178 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 3: So I'm not that guy who says, somehow, rather good 179 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 3: fortune follows me and somehow, rather I perform miracles, you know, somehow, 180 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 3: Rather if you get me it's going to end differently. 181 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 4: I'm not that guy. I'm actually more like the grim Reaper. 182 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 3: And I suspect that's why no one had ever heard 183 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 3: of me, because, you know, because no one who wants 184 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 3: who wants to know about all the people who are dead, 185 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 3: who wants to know about all the reasons for it. 186 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 2: Let's go straight into it with with with India. Where 187 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 2: are you at the time when when you get the call. 188 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 3: I'm actually in Slovenia and I'm slightly involved in trying 189 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 3: to work out some alternative rail links, freight rate rail 190 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 3: links between Asia. 191 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 4: And Europe because of the war in Ukraine. 192 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 3: And so because Russia is no longer a path, try 193 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 3: to work out, you know, we bring maybe bring the 194 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 3: freight around with a different course actually down through the least. 195 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 196 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 3: And so I get the call from India's chief engineer, 197 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 3: Raju Raul Gupta, and he tells me what he's got, 198 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 3: and he asks me for my advice. 199 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 2: And what did he tell you he had? Because I 200 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 2: know that you're not shy or you're used to getting 201 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 2: this information, but yeah, this one was was a pretty 202 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 2: big one. Yeah. 203 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 3: Well, what was really different about this one is he 204 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 3: said at the time, he said he had forty live 205 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 3: ones inside a tunnel and there'd been a collapse. The 206 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 3: zoner collapse was in the order of one hundred meters. 207 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 3: The mountain was still moving. They're experiencing earthquakes. It seemed 208 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 3: to be in a very poor geological zone. Did I 209 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 3: have any thoughts? And he couldn't show me any images. 210 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 3: So I said, hey, can you get me some pictures? 211 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 3: And so he jumped in a helicopter, went up, and 212 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 3: about a day or so later, came back to me 213 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 3: with some images and it looked pretty bad, and so 214 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 3: I said, like, look, I gave him my thoughts. This 215 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 3: is all on WhatsApp. By the way, this is an 216 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 3: It's not like some fan. It's like, hey, Arnold. Then 217 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 3: he says, can you talk to a colleague of mine, 218 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 3: and he sort of pans the phone around. There's another 219 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 3: guy in the room and he's advised of the Prime 220 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 3: Minister of India, and he said, just tell me that again. 221 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 3: I said, well, this is what I reckon, blah blah blah. 222 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 3: And then they just said could you come and give 223 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:01,839 Speaker 3: us a hand? 224 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 2: Like that's just just just as simple as that. 225 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think part of the surprise for that 226 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 3: too is so there's no contract, there's no there's no money. 227 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 3: I mean, so there's no description of what I got 228 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 3: to do, there's no description of what I can't do. 229 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 3: All they asked is could I come and give them 230 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 3: a hand? And so I made my way to India 231 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 3: and ended up in you just. 232 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 2: Drop everything, just go right, yeah, I'm just going to 233 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 2: drop tools and a way I go. 234 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 4: Yeah. 235 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 3: So I just mobilized, went there and on the way. Yeah, 236 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 3: just by myself, yep, yeah, yeah, yeah, just just went 237 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 3: there and they were waiting for me. They had to 238 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 3: like the helicopter bit, like you know, the Rambo movies. 239 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 3: And so I find myself up in the Himalayas and 240 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 3: now I'm part of this amazing team of people who, 241 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 3: by the time I get there, are feeling sad and 242 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 3: we're losing hope because it had been a few days 243 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 3: and they had to sort of officially had press conferences 244 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 3: and told everybody that the workers would be out but 245 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 3: quickly blah blah blah, but they weren't. And also the 246 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 3: machinery they were using had failed, and so things were 247 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 3: looking pretty grim when I got there. 248 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 2: What were they asking you to do. And how was 249 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 2: were they caught in a tunnel, were they caught in 250 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 2: a cave? What was the situation because obviously they were workers, right, Yeah. 251 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 3: So you've got forty one young men probably lied about 252 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 3: their ages because they're from very poor villages, so they're 253 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 3: they're working. They've come from all around India to be 254 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 3: construction workers in a tunnel. The tunnel is being built 255 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 3: for the pilgrims, the Hindu pilgrims, to avoid having to 256 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 3: go across the Himalayas and go through the mountains to 257 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 3: get to their temples. And the situation when I arrived 258 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 3: was there's about one hundred meters of internal collapse inside 259 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 3: the tunnel, so now it's completely blocked. There's a chimney 260 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 3: of collapse rising up through the center of the mountain. 261 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 3: So we're getting aggressive collapse crowding a huge cavity up 262 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 3: through the center of the mountain. 263 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 4: There's like a. 264 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 3: Shear zone running along. Unfortunately the roof of the tunnel 265 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 3: and the shear zone is moving. So the data we 266 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 3: had from our survey and our lighter data was showing us. 267 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 4: That the thing's moving. 268 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 2: And what's a shear zone. 269 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 3: Shear zones when one rock is no longer one, but 270 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 3: actually he's now got a big cut through it, and 271 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 3: the whole thing moves along the cut like a bit 272 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 3: like a fault or something. So and as you found, 273 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 3: because you're a plucky gosh, you know better than me 274 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 3: as a climber that mountain. People think the Himalayas is 275 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 3: really tough rock, and it's not. It's really weak twisted, 276 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 3: soft yeah, soft rock. And so this soft rock is 277 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 3: collapsing and they're experiencing minor earthquakes. There was progressive collapse occurring. 278 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 3: And so the feeling, and I know that's maybe odd 279 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 3: by putting it, but the feeling there they were losing hope. 280 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 3: So and because I had no instructions, because I was 281 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 3: trying to really sensitize myself to like what can I 282 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 3: do here? Like do they want me on dishes? I 283 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 3: can do dishes if they want, you know, do they 284 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 3: want me on what do they want me to do? 285 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 3: I realized I had a really important role to play, 286 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 3: and the role was to make everybody believe that we 287 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 3: could do it. And that's the promise. See, I stepped 288 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 3: in and I put my whole reputation on the line 289 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 3: and I promised that forty one men are going to 290 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 3: come home and that none of us are going to 291 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 3: get hurt. And yet no one asked me if i'd 292 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 3: have done it before, because I hadn't, And I gave 293 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 3: a time frame, and I said it with all my 294 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 3: heart and all my conviction, because for some reason I 295 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 3: believe that we could, And with that belief that we could, 296 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 3: somehow that infected the team and somehow, because you've got 297 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 3: me there saying unequivocably, we will save forty one men 298 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 3: and none of us are going to get. 299 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 4: Hurt by Christmas. 300 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 3: I promise you, Yeah, I said, I promise, Like in 301 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 3: the book, I've got QR codes down the back where 302 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 3: I've actually got the TV interviews all from India, so 303 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 3: they're all coming off the TV channels where I'm standing there, 304 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 3: poker faced in front of one point four billion people, 305 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 3: promising them that we're going to rescue all the men 306 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 3: and none of us are going to get hurt, using 307 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 3: the words I promise, wow. 308 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 2: Wow, and Arnold when you when you when you got 309 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 2: there and you just talk about you know the feeling, 310 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 2: you know, did you think to yourself? Right, I'm going 311 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 2: to tell them this Was it a pre a preempted 312 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,719 Speaker 2: sort of statement, or did you hit the ground you 313 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 2: said about that fear, you know, when you hit the 314 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 2: ground and you feel either this is going to work 315 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 2: out or we can do Did you feel that positivity? 316 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 2: Did you feel that you know, that reassurance of the 317 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 2: situation to be able to deliver that statement in that moment, 318 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 2: or was it something that you thought is a technique 319 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 2: I'm going to use to breed positivity, to breed hope 320 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,479 Speaker 2: so we can get this job done as fast and 321 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 2: as efficiently as possible. Or was it did you hit 322 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 2: the ground and go, do you know what? Wow? Because 323 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 2: I get that sometimes I go, I feel good here, 324 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 2: we're going to do this. We're going to do this. 325 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 3: That's exactly what it is. And I felt it. I 326 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,360 Speaker 3: felt it on the plane on the way there, and 327 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 3: I knew even before I got there that we were 328 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 3: going to be able to do this, even though I've 329 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 3: never done it before. Right, Yeah, I felt we could 330 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 3: do this. And it didn't worry me. Well, it worried 331 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 3: me a little bit, but it was just a small voice. 332 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 3: It didn't worry me that I didn't know how I. 333 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 2: Felt you've never done it before. 334 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 4: Right, No, I've never done it before. 335 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 3: And I'm going to get two hundred of my new 336 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 3: best friends who probably don't even speak English, and we're 337 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 3: going to work as a team and we're going to 338 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 3: figure out how to deliver this promise. And that's the 339 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 3: way I was talking. We will save forty one men. 340 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 3: They are coming home and we're not getting hurt, because 341 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 3: it's important as the rescuers that we also feel like 342 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 3: we're not going to get hurt. And I felt like 343 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 3: we could do it. And it's exactly what you said. 344 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 3: I knew it inside, but can't explain it yet, you know. 345 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 3: Yet I had a call about something else since then, 346 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 3: and I knew that they were dead before I'd even 347 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 3: thought of going there. I just knew, but I knew. 348 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 3: I just felt that we could do it with these guys. 349 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 3: And that's a huge dilemma for me, because up until 350 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:55,479 Speaker 3: this stage in my career, I'm a scientist, engineer. I 351 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 3: don't do promises when I don't know the answer, you know, 352 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 3: like I I'm conservative, But for this particular mission, I 353 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 3: felt felt, with a capital F and an exclamation mark 354 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 3: and no substantive explanation why, that we would be able 355 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 3: to do it, and we did. 356 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 2: Wow. You know what that is? I always say it 357 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 2: and people say, ah, and you're speaking rubbish when I 358 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 2: say the power of positive thinking. You know, when you 359 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 2: just fill that moment, you react to the emotion that 360 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 2: you're feeling, and you make a decision or of that 361 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 2: emotion and normally you know, it could be a positive emotion, 362 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,479 Speaker 2: it could be a negative emotion, like you said, And 363 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 2: I get it. I get it, mate, I really really do. 364 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 2: So you hit the ground, you give out this statement, 365 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 2: you give out this promise, you know, hence the title 366 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 2: of the book. What do you do thereafter? Is the 367 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 2: team energized? So how does a planning what does that 368 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,719 Speaker 2: all that look like? Because obviously, like you said, you've 369 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 2: got a team of what two hundred people? 370 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 4: Yeah? More, maybe even more. We've got a huge team there. 371 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 3: But there's something I did and which again I felt 372 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 3: the most important thing to do when I arrived. So 373 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 3: I'm in this old Russian helicopter, like seriously, it's probably 374 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 3: older than me. It's a shocker, right. Anyway, somehow or 375 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 3: other it lands up there. I stagger out of it 376 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 3: thinking well that was good. I wasn't killed. There would 377 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 3: have been a shame. Like all this excitement, I got 378 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 3: killed in a chopper crash with the landing. Anyway, so 379 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,239 Speaker 3: we get there. I asked the head engineer while I 380 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 3: was flying on the plane if he could take me 381 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 3: to the temple at the front of the tunnel so 382 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 3: that I could pay my respects to the local god 383 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 3: before I went in the tunnel. That was the first 384 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 3: thing I did. And upon reflection, and why did I 385 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 3: do that, I don't know. It wasn't like I was 386 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 3: going through some complicated process. I just knew that that 387 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 3: was the right thing to do. Maybe maybe it's because 388 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 3: of my mum, because she always said you got to 389 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 3: like play by house rules, like who's Ever's house, you know, 390 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 3: respect and all that sort of stuff. So I bowed 391 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 3: at this little temple that had just been built because 392 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 3: the earlier one had been knocked down. And that's why 393 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 3: the local priests believe the tunnel collapsed. There's a whole 394 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 3: sub religious story there, so they believe that it was 395 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 3: disrespect of the gods which caused the collapse in the beginning. 396 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 3: And I was reading about that while I was on 397 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 3: the plane, and I went and I bowed, and I 398 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 3: gave prayer at their temple, and in doing that, I 399 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 3: attracted one point four billion people's attention because he is 400 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 3: an old bearded pink man jumping out of a helicopter, 401 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 3: and the first thing he does is doesn't declare in 402 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 3: some pompous colonial way that everything has to be my 403 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 3: way or the highway. Instead, I knelt at their temple 404 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 3: and did a prayer, and then I went in the 405 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 3: tunnel and that so it's really interesting, you know, like 406 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 3: of all the things I did, I think that was 407 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 3: the most important. Then I went and did some fact finding, 408 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 3: so I didn't want to read anything to show me 409 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 3: a tunnel. So I went in. I looked at it, 410 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 3: I touched it, I listened to it, I smelt it, 411 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 3: literally tasted it because you just to see what because 412 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 3: I want to know what's going on inside. And I 413 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 3: saw twenty one prior collapses in the few hundred meters 414 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 3: to the collapse zone. So this told me that there'd 415 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 3: been twenty one warnings for a catastrophic collapse and nothing 416 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 3: had changed. And so if there was a god of 417 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 3: the mountain, it had given twenty one prior warnings, like 418 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 3: twenty one warning shots before coming down before it trapped 419 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 3: these forty one men. So by the time I figured 420 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 3: that out and went back to my first meeting, I'm like, guys, 421 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 3: can you talk hello Hello, like Earth, Earth, to get real? 422 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 3: Because if there's twenty one prior collapses, it also means 423 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 3: that section that we have to walk through to form 424 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 3: the rescue is inherently unsafe the danger zone. 425 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 2: How many more if you could go through? 426 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 4: Yeah? 427 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:14,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, So so that was grim. But the thing, the 428 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,640 Speaker 3: thing that I loved and you asked me about how 429 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 3: things are done. So in Indian culture, technical culture, engineering culture, 430 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 3: you get all the engineers in the one room and 431 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 3: you pose the question, and then every opinion is listened 432 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 3: to at the same time, and so the room just 433 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 3: explodes in this concophony of conflicting opinions and discussions and 434 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 3: dialogues and all this. 435 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 4: Sort of thing. 436 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 3: And so what I discover from minute zero is that 437 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 3: whatever preconceptions I had as to how to problem solve, 438 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 3: I am in a different culture, and I'm in a 439 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 3: different culture with another group of very intelligent, highly respected, 440 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 3: very competent engineers and other technicians who do not solve 441 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 3: problems like anything I've ever seen before. This is there's 442 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 3: a cultural dimension to the problem solving process. So I 443 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 3: had to embrace that and that so becoming part of 444 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 3: the team didn't mean me imposing how I thought we 445 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 3: should problem solve. Problem solving began. 446 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 4: How do how do I. 447 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 2: Integrate, Yeah, in a in a not too dominating way, 448 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 2: you know, being cultural aware and you know sensitive situation awareness, 449 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 2: And I get it is a tough one, right because ultimately, 450 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 2: and again you know, your expertise of just going in 451 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 2: there and identifying these things, taste in the rock, smelling it, 452 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 2: and is is is way beyond any of their probably 453 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 2: you know, probably techniques or recognition, right, So is it 454 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 2: hard to be Is it hard to be able to 455 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 2: do that? Knowing that you've got it's quite a time 456 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 2: sensitive let's call it a mission. It's quite a time 457 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 2: sensitive mission. 458 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 4: As well, it is. 459 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 3: And so you know, I'm partly a lawyer, right, So 460 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 3: I've got a group of engineers who are terrified that 461 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 3: if we kill people, they're gonna end up in jail, 462 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 3: right because so so as a lawyer, and this is 463 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 3: really interesting. So I peel that onion skin off my 464 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 3: head and I go, okay, but I don't say I'm 465 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 3: being a lawyer. But in that meeting, I would say 466 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 3: to people, do we agree if we do nothing, they're 467 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 3: going to die? 468 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 4: Yes? 469 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 3: Do we agree that we do not have enough information 470 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 3: to make an informed decision? 471 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 4: Yes? Do we agree that we don't have all the 472 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 4: equipment we would like? 473 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 2: Yes? 474 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 4: Do we agree that we have to do something today? 475 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 2: Yes? 476 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:53,360 Speaker 3: Okay, And so in the absence of the information we want, 477 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 3: the equipment we need, and all the rest of it, 478 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 3: what are we going to do today? 479 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 4: And then the room would erupt. 480 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 3: That might take say, forty minutes, and then the sugar 481 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 3: levels would finally drop and we get to, you know, 482 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 3: a level where we calm down, and so we've got say, 483 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 3: one idea, And then the lawyer in me, without saying 484 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 3: it's the lawyer, would touch and I mean touch the 485 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 3: person who's the decision maker, and I would say, no 486 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 3: matter what, no matter what happens, I will say, I 487 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 3: will always say that the decision you made here today 488 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 3: was the best decision based on all of the evidence 489 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 3: that we have, the resources that are available to us, 490 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,479 Speaker 3: and in the knowledge that we have to take action today. 491 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 3: And then the whole room would go, oh, yeah, that's 492 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,199 Speaker 3: a good idea, because everyone was thinking. I could tell 493 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 3: I could feel it. They're going, oh yeah, if my 494 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 3: ass was on the line, we all should stick together, 495 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,959 Speaker 3: shouldn't we. And so we had like a pact so 496 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 3: that when we went out of the room, everyone was, yeah, 497 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 3: we agree, this is what we're going to do today. 498 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 2: But you say that they had a pack, but also 499 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 2: they had a leader, and they had a leader within you, 500 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 2: because leaders make decisions like that. Leaders show their group 501 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 2: that they have the top cover and the backing to 502 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 2: go in and do that job. So even though you 503 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 2: were a group, I've identified straight away the leader in you, mate, 504 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 2: which is absolutely amazing. I don't know if you knew that. 505 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:29,880 Speaker 2: You probably do, But from that discussion there, they've got 506 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 2: a leader. That's probably why they were cheering. And we've 507 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 2: got a leader that's winning to back us, that's willing 508 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 2: to roll up his sleeves and lead from the front, 509 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 2: which is extremely rare in this day and age. 510 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 3: It's funny, isn't it, Because what I did was I 511 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 3: put my face as the face of both success. 512 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 4: And failure and they love that. 513 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 2: And what leader does. 514 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm I'm saying I didn't mean to and 515 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 3: I didn't mean to it's not a conscious decision. It's 516 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 3: I've got a mission and to achieve this mission, and 517 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 3: it is necessary for me to make these statements, and 518 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 3: I believe that they are the right statements to make. Interestingly, 519 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 3: you talk about leadership, I have no authority, right, I 520 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 3: have no position. I am not even in the press conferences. 521 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 3: You will not find anywhere on the internet one piece 522 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 3: of video with me in a press conference. 523 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 4: And yet the. 524 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 3: Indian media followed me, found me, wanted to talk to 525 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 3: me every day. So I became the face of the 526 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 3: mission with no authority, just just doing what I do. 527 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:42,239 Speaker 3: And I felt that when you talk about leadership, I 528 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 3: took a leadership position for the purposes of achieving the 529 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 3: mission without having one star on my shoulder. But when 530 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 3: I went back to India, because I asked them what 531 00:29:53,760 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 3: did I do? And of course there's some voices who say, uh, 532 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 3: you know, you were stealing the limelight, you're the face 533 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 3: of it, blah blah blah. And but when I asked 534 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 3: them what I actually did, they said, you made us 535 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,239 Speaker 3: believe that we could do it. 536 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 4: You gave us hope. 537 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 3: And I think when you talk about leadership, ant the 538 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 3: other for me, the thing that also is not spoken. 539 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 3: Imagine what would have happened to me upon failure, because 540 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 3: I was the public face and the declaration of success, 541 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 3: and the Prime Minister's department had said to me, if 542 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 3: this fails, you better get yourself to that helicopter, which 543 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 3: is on the helicopter, it'll be waiting to get you 544 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 3: out because there are thousands of people here, like mobs 545 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 3: had formed for all the men inside there, all the families. 546 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 3: You've been up there, you know what it's like. It's 547 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 3: not you know, you might think London's tough, but that's 548 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 3: a tough mob up there in the Himalayas, and they 549 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 3: will make you personally accountable and read between the lines 550 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 3: that means possibly I will be in pieces. So like this, 551 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 3: this was not a game, and the stakes, the stakes 552 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 3: couldn't have been higher. And there was general distrust in 553 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 3: the government, so there was like there were sort of 554 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 3: I wouldn't call it rioting, but lots of shouting and 555 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 3: screaming and you know, men with guns to keep them 556 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 3: under control and all that sort of thing. So this 557 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 3: was no you know, it's no academic exercise like this 558 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 3: is the real deal. 559 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 2: So talk to me about the action. How do you 560 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 2: execute this mission, Arnold, and how does it go? Talk 561 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 2: us through it? So us put us in there with you. 562 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 4: Yes, So. 563 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 3: There's what we do is we divide the rescue mission 564 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 3: into multiple teams, divided along existing organizational boundaries. So we 565 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 3: put one set of organizations in charge of vertical shaft 566 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 3: drilling from the top of the mountain down. So we're 567 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 3: aiming to have the option of coming down from the 568 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 3: top of the mountain, hitting the top of the tunnel 569 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 3: near where the workers are, and then extracting them, perhaps 570 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 3: through a capsule or something. We've got another team working 571 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 3: on a side intervention where we've excavated a launch chamber 572 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 3: for a tunnel boring machine coming in from the side. 573 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 3: We've got another intervention that we're setting up from the back. 574 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 3: It'll have to come through a fair bit of mountain, 575 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 3: but in fact we abandoned that early because the tunnel 576 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 3: on the other side is also in a diabolical state, 577 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 3: so we exclude that. Then at the main section where 578 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 3: we ultimately do do the rescue, we've got the main 579 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 3: augered tube which we're putting through, which is about eight 580 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 3: hundred mil with a big auger and a big pushing 581 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 3: device on it. And then in addition to that, we've 582 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 3: got a second method, which would be a conventional mining operation, 583 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 3: probably run by the army, where we'll build a small, 584 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 3: small mine shaft using the side of the tunnel as 585 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 3: one wall, and come alongside and see if we can 586 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,479 Speaker 3: get the men. So we had multiple parallel things going on, 587 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 3: but we had to coordinate each of them so that 588 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 3: we didn't disturb the ground for each of the other. 589 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 3: So the vertical one was going really well until it 590 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 3: wasn't because we noticed that the amount of water coming 591 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 3: into the tunnel was increasing and we were we were 592 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 3: concerned that we might burst an aquifer and drown everybody, 593 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 3: and that would be bad. 594 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 2: An aquifer is obviously a pool of water that's encapsulated 595 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 2: within the rock. 596 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a big ocean up up in the 597 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 3: in there, because because the Himalayas used to be ocean 598 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 3: floor and they've been pushed up. That's how you get 599 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 3: your springs and things up there. They're actually oceans trapped 600 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 3: in mountains up in the Himalayas. So one of the 601 00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 3: ways we regularly kill people in tunnels in the himal 602 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,959 Speaker 3: As we drown them. And so that's so not intuitive. 603 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,280 Speaker 3: So we had water coming in and we were worried 604 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 3: we were going to trigger a collapse in the crown, 605 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 3: so we stopped. 606 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 4: We actually halted that. The fact that the men who 607 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 4: are in charge of the vertical drilling. 608 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 3: Operation were prepared to halt when they were so close 609 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,359 Speaker 3: to getting through the crown shows what a wonderful team 610 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 3: we were, because you know what, it's like, we're the 611 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,919 Speaker 3: team and you've you know, wonder they were there, We're there. 612 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:35,479 Speaker 3: They were like just stump, yeah, So that's like super hard. 613 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,319 Speaker 4: Then we've got the Auger. I'll go to the Auger team. 614 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 3: So we've got the bigger eight hundred mil pipe, We've 615 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,760 Speaker 3: got an auger, and it blows up and so where 616 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 3: the Auger is now completely disintegrated, that part of the 617 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:53,240 Speaker 3: machine's broken down. We're about ten meters away from getting through, 618 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 3: but we've crashed into a whole lot of broken steel 619 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 3: and reinforcements, which is the old tunnel, and it's wrecked everything. 620 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 3: And in fact it's there that the decision is made. 621 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 3: We're going to now go to people in the pipe 622 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 3: by hand digging and putting rock into a little trolley 623 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 3: that we made I do welding, so I was down 624 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 3: with the welding boys. So we we welded up a 625 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 3: little trolley on a rope, so I got two men 626 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 3: in an eight you know, eight hundreds, not march though, 627 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 3: like little men by hand. And then we pulled the 628 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 3: trolley out and over a period of a few days 629 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 3: we did that last ten meters that actually works in 630 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 3: the end, and we held the tunnel boring machine. Launch 631 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 3: was just held while we were doing that because we 632 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 3: didn't want to trigger an avalanche, and we held we 633 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 3: were fabricating for the mining operation, but we held so. 634 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 3: And also the rescue workers. I was talking to them, 635 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 3: and we knew there could easily be a catastrophic failure 636 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 3: once we busted through, because we could see in the 637 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 3: survey data and the light, our data and everything else 638 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 3: that the thing was moving. And so one of the 639 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 3: things I was doing was going to each man who 640 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 3: was going to go in as a rescue worker and 641 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 3: say to them, look, when you get in there, if 642 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 3: it starts to blow, can you go to the back, 643 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 3: like go down the far end of the tunnel. And 644 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 3: I promise another promise. This was going to be my 645 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 3: second what was my second promise we'll come and get you. 646 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 3: But remember it could take us two weeks or so 647 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 3: on our best calculations, because we had a feel for 648 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,959 Speaker 3: the rock. Another couple of weeks and we might lose 649 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 3: power supply, so you might be in the dark. And 650 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 3: in preparation for that, we'd had the guys who were 651 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 3: trapped stockpiling food and water at the back of the 652 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 3: tunnel as well, so if it caved in, so we 653 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 3: were preparing for a second a second failure. 654 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 2: Wow, So loads of concurrent activity going on there for 655 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 2: multiple options. If A didn't work, then then B didn't work, 656 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. And talk about talk about a 657 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,240 Speaker 2: combination of skill sets. You say you're a worlder, a lawyer, 658 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 2: and engineer, geologist, you're almost you're almost made for this 659 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 2: specific mission at hand, because it was do you know 660 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 2: what I mean by that? Because I'm just picking up 661 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 2: all these things and I'm like, wow, wow, Wow, he's 662 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 2: using all of his skill sets. 663 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 4: Ah. 664 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 3: And I know too well, which is part of the 665 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 3: reason I'm so troubled. It's as if the universe prepped 666 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 3: me for this one job. It's as a whole of 667 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 3: my life, i'd been prepared. Yeah, when the rescue was finished, 668 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 3: I can't, like still can't think of any skill I'd 669 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 3: learned over the period of my life that I didn't use. 670 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,839 Speaker 3: And I can't think of anyone on the team who 671 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 3: we could have done without. Like it was like this huge, 672 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 3: incredibly improbable jigsaw puzzle that, for some reason I still 673 00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,439 Speaker 3: don't understand, came together and it's exactly like you picked 674 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 3: it up. That's this is the problem I face because 675 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,879 Speaker 3: I look at it and I go and even through 676 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 3: my life, I'm like, why why do I know welding? 677 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 3: Why do I know about driving machinery? Like why do 678 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,399 Speaker 3: I know about geology? Why do I know about law? 679 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 3: You know? 680 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 4: And yet there in the mountain for this rescue, all. 681 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 2: Needed still the stars aligned. Yeah, so when you breach 682 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 2: through Arnold, you know that moment when do you get 683 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,959 Speaker 2: the message that we're in the tunnel and we're there 684 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,439 Speaker 2: and now it's a case of let's get them out. Yeah. 685 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 3: So I remember that really, really well. So I've been 686 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 3: down there where all the preparations are being done. I'm 687 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,319 Speaker 3: down there doing that. But as soon as soon as 688 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 3: I knew that we were nearly there, because you get 689 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 3: like they're preparing for the actual getting in. I retreated, 690 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 3: And the reason I retreated was I felt that this 691 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 3: was a very special moment for the country because it 692 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,359 Speaker 3: had been so huge on their media. They'd been live 693 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 3: coverage for seventeen days. And I didn't feel I should 694 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 3: be there. It's like my job is done. And so 695 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 3: what I did was I Withdrew and I sat up 696 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 3: behind the family because the families had been bought in 697 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,439 Speaker 3: and they had like little chairs for them to sit 698 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,919 Speaker 3: in the tunnel, but back from the zone of most 699 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,720 Speaker 3: likely collapse, and I sat with my back up against 700 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,280 Speaker 3: the wall behind their chairs. 701 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 4: Actually connected to the rocks. 702 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,399 Speaker 3: I was actually kind of touching the mountain, like sort 703 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 3: of going, come on, come. 704 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,799 Speaker 4: On, Nelly, Yeah, we're nellly there. 705 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 3: We're nearly there, and life can be a bit not nice, 706 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 3: you know. So you know, So I was sitting there 707 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 3: and the and then all the cheering starts because the 708 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 3: people start coming out. But what was extraordinary for me, 709 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,800 Speaker 3: and I'd never really thought about it. All the families 710 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 3: were silent, and I think I think they felt like 711 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 3: they were looking at ghosts. I actually don't think they 712 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 3: thought they would ever see their family again. And I 713 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,400 Speaker 3: suspect in their minds they were thinking that this was 714 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,800 Speaker 3: all some conspiracy or some fabrication, because a lot of 715 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 3: them were questioning whether their loved ones were really alive. 716 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 3: And there was always this uh, this, you know, this 717 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,799 Speaker 3: negative narrative that's very popular now where the government's not 718 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 3: telling you the truth and there's really but and so 719 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:39,320 Speaker 3: when they came out, they were silent, and I wouldn't 720 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 3: like I would never have imagined they would be silent. 721 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 3: Then I was watching and then just just tears like 722 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 3: they like just crying, like just quietly. Not so the 723 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,759 Speaker 3: rescue workers they're all, are you hear you know, and 724 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 3: that's the stuff that you see on the on the videos. 725 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:04,080 Speaker 3: But the families silent, And that was a it's really interesting. 726 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 3: I'm still thinking about that. 727 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 2: So when number forty one came out, what did it 728 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 2: feel like going from the grim reaper to an archangel? 729 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 2: This being your your first. 730 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 3: Time, Yeah, that's right, my my rescue virgin moment. Yeah, 731 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 3: So my job wasn't done because I had personal relationships 732 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,040 Speaker 3: with all the rescuers that had gone in, and I'd 733 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,279 Speaker 3: given them my assurance that I would come and get 734 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 3: them if they got stuck. So I actually waited for 735 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,719 Speaker 3: all of them to come out. And so when I 736 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,759 Speaker 3: had all because remember my promise is two fold, Yeah, 737 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,799 Speaker 3: so I can't I can't just take one. 738 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 4: I've got to take both. 739 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,359 Speaker 2: Right, So yeah, they you're going to rescue them all. 740 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,200 Speaker 2: And also no one's going to get hurt. Yeah, in 741 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 2: the in the introm Yeah. 742 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 3: So when I had all of them come out, I 743 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 3: felt and this you may well understand, and it's not intuitive. 744 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:09,359 Speaker 3: I felt enormous contentment. And so people say to me, oh, 745 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 3: you must have been happier. No, it wasn't happy. Oh 746 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,840 Speaker 3: you must have been excited. No, it wasn't even excited. 747 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,320 Speaker 3: It was contentment. And even the word contentment probably doesn't 748 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,840 Speaker 3: express it correctly. It's this feeling that, as a human being, 749 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,359 Speaker 3: you've discharged your duty honorably and you've been a part 750 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 3: of something special, and it's like, maybe that's it, Maybe 751 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,360 Speaker 3: that's what I was here for. Like it's like a 752 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,759 Speaker 3: really we like it's a weird thing, like if I 753 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,279 Speaker 3: was a religious person, which I'm still deciding whether I 754 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,400 Speaker 3: am or art, but it's like, you know, it's like 755 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 3: a Nirvana moment, I suppose, because I just feel contented, 756 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 3: and I, yeah, that's how it felt. 757 00:42:55,440 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 2: Was the energy of that situation and of of that moment. 758 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 2: Did it feel religious that and you mentioned that, did 759 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,879 Speaker 2: it feel religious that you've done the right thing by 760 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 2: going to do a prayer at the beginning? Did that 761 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 2: all come back around? And did you think you know, 762 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 2: I've got to now, you know, because it is a 763 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 2: religious you know, there's a there's a sort of religious 764 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 2: side to that of praying to the mountain gods. And 765 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:24,120 Speaker 2: I do the. 766 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 4: Same, You do the same, so you get it on 767 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,759 Speaker 4: the mountains. Yeah, yeah, you get it. 768 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:35,920 Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, So so we've done this. 769 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,880 Speaker 4: This is from the day after right, amazing. 770 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,560 Speaker 3: Right, So so I'm told by the Prime Minister's department 771 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 3: there's a helicopter waiting to fly me away, and I've 772 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:46,839 Speaker 3: got to get out of there because a happy mob 773 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 3: is dangerous in the same way that an unhappy mob 774 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,759 Speaker 3: is because maybe they go, ah, we want some of 775 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:53,759 Speaker 3: his teeth. 776 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,719 Speaker 2: Or we want his hair. You come back bedless. 777 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:02,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but I didn't. I didn't do what I 778 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:07,200 Speaker 3: was told. Instead, the rescue workers, the SDRF rescue workers 779 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,520 Speaker 3: and I we made a pack that we would go 780 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,880 Speaker 3: to the temple on top of the mountain and give thanks. 781 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,160 Speaker 3: And so the helicopter was waiting, doing its helicopter thing. 782 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 3: So we snuck off together and we went to the 783 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,520 Speaker 3: top of the mountain and had the best celebration and 784 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:29,239 Speaker 3: see for those guys just like me. Normally we bring 785 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,879 Speaker 3: people home in body bags and this time there were 786 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,120 Speaker 3: no body bags and none of us had been heard. 787 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,560 Speaker 3: And so there's this amazing video which is the guys 788 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,800 Speaker 3: made up a song about me. I've got no idea 789 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,440 Speaker 3: what it was saying, like except the Arnie Dix I 790 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 3: know that bit. But we found this log up on 791 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,600 Speaker 3: top of the mountain where there's this temple, and they 792 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,040 Speaker 3: put on a concert, a singing and dancing concert. And 793 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,200 Speaker 3: then I was like, oh, well I'll join them, because like, 794 00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:56,840 Speaker 3: what the hell. 795 00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:57,400 Speaker 4: We're all alive. 796 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:03,640 Speaker 3: And that video, which was totally unrehearsed spontaneously they did 797 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,000 Speaker 3: the singing and dancing. It had something like a hundred 798 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:11,440 Speaker 3: million hits in India. Wow, because it's just lovely. 799 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:16,200 Speaker 2: Wow. So absolutely, it's pure it's lovely. 800 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,279 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's just a. 801 00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,319 Speaker 2: Well listen, Arnold, You've been an absolute pleasure to have 802 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:26,600 Speaker 2: on my podcast. You are humble as you are, kind 803 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,600 Speaker 2: as you are knowledgeable, as awesome as your beard is. 804 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,440 Speaker 2: I couldn't compliment you anymore, mate. Thank you, sir, Thank you. 805 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:38,520 Speaker 2: And to learn more about Arnold's extraordinary career, you can 806 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,440 Speaker 2: pick up a copy of his new book, The Promise. 807 00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,400 Speaker 2: I link the details in the show notes. Thanks for 808 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,839 Speaker 2: listening to this episode of head Game. If you enjoyed it, 809 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:53,440 Speaker 2: please leave me a review. I'm at Middleton. See you 810 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:54,000 Speaker 2: next time.