1 00:00:05,790 --> 00:00:08,100 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:08,309 --> 00:00:10,860 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. Every day on this podcast, we talk about the 3 00:00:10,860 --> 00:00:13,710 Sean Aylmer: Aussie dollar. In the last 12 months, well, it hasn't been 4 00:00:13,710 --> 00:00:16,770 Sean Aylmer: a great deal of movement. In fact, it finished last 5 00:00:16,770 --> 00:00:19,709 Sean Aylmer: fiscal year pretty much where it started, last fiscal year, 6 00:00:19,890 --> 00:00:22,499 Sean Aylmer: but it's now sitting above 67 US cents with some 7 00:00:22,500 --> 00:00:25,110 Sean Aylmer: tipping. The rally may continue, might even hit 70 cents 8 00:00:25,110 --> 00:00:27,300 Sean Aylmer: in coming months. At the same time, the Aussie dollar's 9 00:00:27,300 --> 00:00:30,749 Sean Aylmer: around a 30- year high against the Japanese yen, so it's 10 00:00:30,750 --> 00:00:33,539 Sean Aylmer: no surprise tourists are heading there in droves. Ray Attrill 11 00:00:34,019 --> 00:00:37,680 Sean Aylmer: is head of FX Strategy at National Australia Bank. Ray, 12 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:38,700 Sean Aylmer: welcome to Fear and Greed. 13 00:00:39,030 --> 00:00:40,470 Ray Attrill: Nice to be here. Thanks for having me. 14 00:00:41,310 --> 00:00:43,589 Sean Aylmer: What's happening with the Aussie dollar? Why are we seeing 15 00:00:43,590 --> 00:00:47,310 Sean Aylmer: it appreciate against the greenback, and how high will it go? 16 00:00:47,940 --> 00:00:50,759 Ray Attrill: Well, I think two things really to stand out, for 17 00:00:50,759 --> 00:00:53,670 Ray Attrill: me at least anyway, in terms of what's caused this 18 00:00:53,940 --> 00:00:58,950 Ray Attrill: breakout from, as you rightly described, has been an excruciatingly narrow range 19 00:00:58,950 --> 00:01:01,920 Ray Attrill: for the Aussie. And certainly since the start of the 20 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:08,309 Ray Attrill: year, we've been trapped between roughly 64 and 67 cents 21 00:01:08,309 --> 00:01:09,900 Ray Attrill: for most of it. So yeah, we have poked out 22 00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:13,890 Ray Attrill: above 67. I'd say two things. One is that ever 23 00:01:13,890 --> 00:01:18,090 Ray Attrill: since the middle of June when we had those monthly 24 00:01:18,090 --> 00:01:21,420 Ray Attrill: Australian CPI numbers printed for the May number we got 25 00:01:21,420 --> 00:01:23,910 Ray Attrill: in June, which was a little bit of an upside 26 00:01:23,910 --> 00:01:27,719 Ray Attrill: surprise as a result of which we've seen Australian money 27 00:01:27,719 --> 00:01:31,709 Ray Attrill: markets moving to price in the risk that the RBA 28 00:01:31,709 --> 00:01:34,559 Ray Attrill: might not be done tightening after all, and that there's 29 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,670 Ray Attrill: a serious risk that we could see another one or 30 00:01:38,670 --> 00:01:41,309 Ray Attrill: even two rate rises between now and the end of 31 00:01:41,309 --> 00:01:45,329 Ray Attrill: the year. So that repricing, if you like, of RBA 32 00:01:45,330 --> 00:01:49,379 Ray Attrill: risks has had a direct beneficial effect on the Aussie. 33 00:01:49,379 --> 00:01:52,860 Ray Attrill: I think that's exhibit A. And then exhibit B is really that 34 00:01:52,860 --> 00:01:56,070 Ray Attrill: we've started to see the US dollar losing a bit 35 00:01:56,070 --> 00:01:59,639 Ray Attrill: of altitude generally, not just against the Aussie dollar. And 36 00:01:59,639 --> 00:02:03,060 Ray Attrill: I think that links directly into some of the incoming 37 00:02:03,630 --> 00:02:06,420 Ray Attrill: economic and inflation numbers that we've had out of the 38 00:02:06,420 --> 00:02:09,240 Ray Attrill: US just in the last couple of months that show 39 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,260 Ray Attrill: some pretty clear signs that the US economy is losing 40 00:02:13,260 --> 00:02:16,530 Ray Attrill: a bit of its, what I would call, economic exceptionalism, 41 00:02:16,590 --> 00:02:20,040 Ray Attrill: which I think was very much the hallmark of 2023. 42 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,669 Ray Attrill: It looks like the high inflation numbers that we had 43 00:02:23,669 --> 00:02:26,760 Ray Attrill: in the first quarter of this year are giving way, 44 00:02:26,910 --> 00:02:30,360 Ray Attrill: were more noise than signal I think, and they have 45 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,630 Ray Attrill: given way to evidence of inflation coming down. So I 46 00:02:33,630 --> 00:02:35,638 Ray Attrill: think you've had that bit of a pencil movement upwards 47 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:40,260 Ray Attrill: for the Aussie, a repricing of RBA risks alongside more confidence 48 00:02:40,529 --> 00:02:42,689 Ray Attrill: that the Fed is going to be embarking on some 49 00:02:42,690 --> 00:02:46,470 Ray Attrill: kind of an easing cycle, probably starting before the US 50 00:02:46,470 --> 00:02:50,040 Ray Attrill: elections. And that's why we're sitting here closer to 67 and 51 00:02:50,099 --> 00:02:52,049 Ray Attrill: a half than sub- 67. 52 00:02:52,710 --> 00:02:55,109 Sean Aylmer: So how high do you think it'll go? Will it keep 53 00:02:55,110 --> 00:02:58,049 Sean Aylmer: going? Is this trend something that'll last for a couple 54 00:02:58,049 --> 00:02:58,589 Sean Aylmer: of months? 55 00:02:59,250 --> 00:03:02,160 Ray Attrill: Well, a lot will depend on whether or not the RBA 56 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,360 Ray Attrill: does actually deliver on the market's fear that there could 57 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,210 Ray Attrill: be another rate rise. And to be honest, we can't 58 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,258 Ray Attrill: make that determination until we get the second quarter, the 59 00:03:13,258 --> 00:03:17,609 Ray Attrill: full quarter inflation numbers, the Q2 CPI numbers, which aren't out 60 00:03:17,609 --> 00:03:21,270 Ray Attrill: until the 31st of July. That's just ahead of the 61 00:03:21,270 --> 00:03:26,548 Ray Attrill: RBA's August meeting. So depending on which side of the line relative 62 00:03:26,550 --> 00:03:31,410 Ray Attrill: to the RBA's own internal forecast those numbers fall, that 63 00:03:31,410 --> 00:03:34,529 Ray Attrill: will determine whether it's game on for a potential rate 64 00:03:34,529 --> 00:03:37,830 Ray Attrill: rise in August. In which case I would say there's 65 00:03:37,830 --> 00:03:40,080 Ray Attrill: a fair bit more upside for the Aussie in the short 66 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,720 Ray Attrill: term. And obviously on the other side, it does depend 67 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,349 Ray Attrill: whether this building optimism for US rate cuts, so it 68 00:03:46,349 --> 00:03:48,660 Ray Attrill: does prove to be justified. There's a lot of economic 69 00:03:48,660 --> 00:03:51,540 Ray Attrill: news to flow under the bridge between now and the 70 00:03:51,540 --> 00:03:55,110 Ray Attrill: Fed's September meeting. Certainly we're not expecting anything out of the 71 00:03:55,110 --> 00:03:58,890 Ray Attrill: meeting that we'll get later this month. And NAB's view is that 72 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,430 Ray Attrill: the RBA, unless those numbers are really a horror story 73 00:04:02,820 --> 00:04:05,550 Ray Attrill: at the end of the month, the RBA may well decide to tough 74 00:04:05,550 --> 00:04:08,909 Ray Attrill: it out and stand packed, which if that's the case, 75 00:04:08,910 --> 00:04:11,069 Ray Attrill: it would take a little bit of the heat out of 76 00:04:11,219 --> 00:04:13,710 Ray Attrill: the Aussie. But on the basis that we do think 77 00:04:13,710 --> 00:04:17,190 Ray Attrill: that US dollar weakness has got a way to travel, 78 00:04:17,190 --> 00:04:19,890 Ray Attrill: assuming that the Fed is going to deliver in our view 79 00:04:19,890 --> 00:04:22,170 Ray Attrill: at least a couple of rate cuts between then and the end of the 80 00:04:22,170 --> 00:04:25,770 Ray Attrill: year. That alone may be enough to see Aussie improving 81 00:04:25,770 --> 00:04:29,069 Ray Attrill: on current levels. So we've got to forecast for make it 69 82 00:04:29,070 --> 00:04:32,820 Ray Attrill: cents to point forecast at the end of the year. So for choice, 83 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:37,650 Ray Attrill: we do think that we can go higher from here, but I think it's more 84 00:04:37,650 --> 00:04:40,799 Ray Attrill: dependent on that US dollar continuing to roll over than 85 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:46,169 Ray Attrill: the RBA necessarily following through with the market threats, if 86 00:04:46,170 --> 00:04:49,019 Ray Attrill: you like, or the market's year of higher interest rates here. 87 00:04:49,649 --> 00:04:58,529 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Ray, we'll be back in a minute. I'm speaking to 88 00:04:58,529 --> 00:05:01,890 Sean Aylmer: Ray Attrill, head of FX Strategy at National Australia Bank. 89 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,939 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so the dollar itself is just a price. It's not 90 00:05:06,449 --> 00:05:08,820 Sean Aylmer: up or down. It's neither good nor bad. It's just 91 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,909 Sean Aylmer: a price relative to other currencies. When we talk about 92 00:05:11,910 --> 00:05:14,099 Sean Aylmer: it, we always talk about short- term moves, and that's 93 00:05:14,099 --> 00:05:18,360 Sean Aylmer: mostly about interest rates because changing views on inflation and 94 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,469 Sean Aylmer: rates and stuff like that shifts currencies. What about if 95 00:05:22,469 --> 00:05:25,410 Sean Aylmer: we step back from that? When you're a big exporting 96 00:05:25,410 --> 00:05:28,320 Sean Aylmer: country like Australia, say you're selling iron ore and you'd 97 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,570 Sean Aylmer: imagine people will want to buy that iron ore. Now, 98 00:05:30,570 --> 00:05:32,190 Sean Aylmer: I know it's priced in US dollars, but it may 99 00:05:32,190 --> 00:05:35,250 Sean Aylmer: mean that they need Aussie dollars. You also have government 100 00:05:35,250 --> 00:05:39,178 Sean Aylmer: debt, or what are those bigger picture things that shift 101 00:05:39,178 --> 00:05:43,740 Sean Aylmer: currencies outside the more short- term interest rate factors? 102 00:05:44,310 --> 00:05:47,190 Ray Attrill: Yeah. Well, sadly as far as Australia's concerned, if you 103 00:05:47,190 --> 00:05:51,539 Ray Attrill: go back really right go back to the 1983 where the dollar was 104 00:05:51,540 --> 00:05:54,690 Ray Attrill: floated and I would say talking to clients, if I'm 105 00:05:54,690 --> 00:05:57,928 Ray Attrill: only allowed one club to get around the golf course 106 00:05:57,928 --> 00:06:00,899 Ray Attrill: and the golf course is the Aussie dollar, give me 107 00:06:00,900 --> 00:06:05,670 Ray Attrill: commodity prices because swings in commodity prices, particularly the prices of 108 00:06:05,790 --> 00:06:10,260 Ray Attrill: the commodities that Australia is richly endowed with and exports, 109 00:06:10,260 --> 00:06:13,859 Ray Attrill: and obviously iron ore and LNG are number one and 110 00:06:13,860 --> 00:06:18,000 Ray Attrill: number two there on the list, the volatility in those prices 111 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:22,110 Ray Attrill: has really explained most of the medium term or bigger picture 112 00:06:22,110 --> 00:06:25,230 Ray Attrill: swings in the Australian dollar. The problem with that is 113 00:06:25,230 --> 00:06:29,069 Ray Attrill: that really since 2022 or really since really going back 114 00:06:29,070 --> 00:06:32,399 Ray Attrill: since COVID, there's been a clear break in the relationship 115 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:37,440 Ray Attrill: between commodity prices and the Australian dollar. Effectively, commodity prices have been 116 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,070 Ray Attrill: relatively elevated and yet Aussie has spent most of the 117 00:06:41,070 --> 00:06:44,580 Ray Attrill: last three or four years languishing well below its long- 118 00:06:44,580 --> 00:06:47,490 Ray Attrill: term average. So there's something going on there that we've been 119 00:06:47,490 --> 00:06:51,029 Ray Attrill: struggling as currency analysts to get our head around. And the 120 00:06:51,029 --> 00:06:53,520 Ray Attrill: way I think we resolved that is to say that 121 00:06:53,820 --> 00:06:55,500 Ray Attrill: a lot of the strength that we've seen in commodity 122 00:06:55,500 --> 00:07:00,480 Ray Attrill: prices doesn't necessarily reflect a strong global economy. In fact, 123 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,529 Ray Attrill: the global economy has actually been performing below par or 124 00:07:04,529 --> 00:07:08,250 Ray Attrill: below trend for the last three years. So really a 125 00:07:08,250 --> 00:07:10,349 Ray Attrill: lot of this commodity price strength is, a lot of 126 00:07:10,350 --> 00:07:14,160 Ray Attrill: it is supply shock driven because of all the various disruptions 127 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:18,840 Ray Attrill: that have occurred through COVID, with Russia's invasion of Ukraine, 128 00:07:19,290 --> 00:07:23,040 Ray Attrill: Middle East, et cetera. So all of these things have 129 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,400 Ray Attrill: led to elevated commodity prices that are not symptomatic of 130 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,549 Ray Attrill: a strong global economy. And the conclusion that we draw 131 00:07:29,549 --> 00:07:32,430 Ray Attrill: is that when the global economy is doing well, Australia 132 00:07:32,430 --> 00:07:34,980 Ray Attrill: does well and the Australian dollar does well, and vice 133 00:07:34,980 --> 00:07:38,130 Ray Attrill: versa. And at the moment, so we're in that period 134 00:07:38,130 --> 00:07:42,269 Ray Attrill: where it looks there's some tentative signs that maybe global 135 00:07:42,270 --> 00:07:44,309 Ray Attrill: growth prospects are picking up, not so much in the 136 00:07:44,309 --> 00:07:46,830 Ray Attrill: US but in other parts of the world. And if 137 00:07:46,830 --> 00:07:50,520 Ray Attrill: that really follows through, that would give us reason to 138 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,840 Ray Attrill: think that maybe Aussie can trend up closer to its long- 139 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,230 Ray Attrill: term average, which is nearer 75 cents. But there are 140 00:07:58,230 --> 00:08:02,099 Ray Attrill: lots of ifs and buts to that story, not least 141 00:08:02,099 --> 00:08:06,299 Ray Attrill: of which is the geopolitical and political landscape. And dare 142 00:08:06,299 --> 00:08:09,810 Ray Attrill: I say, what it might mean if President Trump returns 143 00:08:09,810 --> 00:08:11,760 Ray Attrill: to the White House at the end of the year. 144 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,709 Sean Aylmer: So just bringing that in to perspective here, the US 145 00:08:16,710 --> 00:08:18,330 Sean Aylmer: dollar has been very strong. You mentioned that it's come 146 00:08:18,330 --> 00:08:22,139 Sean Aylmer: off a little bit other currencies against the USD, yen 147 00:08:22,139 --> 00:08:26,100 Sean Aylmer: being the standout. But the euro and the Chinese yuan, and 148 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:28,350 Sean Aylmer: I think the Canadian dollar, I might be wrong on 149 00:08:28,350 --> 00:08:31,860 Sean Aylmer: that one, basically the US dollar has been very strong 150 00:08:31,860 --> 00:08:34,920 Sean Aylmer: against those currencies and when you read stuff, they're always 151 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:39,569 Sean Aylmer: talking about the risk- free currency is the US, relatively risk- 152 00:08:39,570 --> 00:08:42,449 Sean Aylmer: free currency is the US. How does that also play 153 00:08:42,449 --> 00:08:46,078 Sean Aylmer: into this picture when you have so much geopolitical uncertainty? 154 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,208 Sean Aylmer: When you have the potential of Donald Trump coming in, 155 00:08:48,540 --> 00:08:53,369 Sean Aylmer: does it actually support the US dollar in a funny way? 156 00:08:53,370 --> 00:08:56,910 Sean Aylmer: It goes against your natural view on that, but it 157 00:08:56,910 --> 00:08:57,660 Sean Aylmer: seems to be the way. 158 00:08:57,690 --> 00:09:02,190 Ray Attrill: No, certainly. When the US is the epicenter of geopolitical 159 00:09:02,190 --> 00:09:05,250 Ray Attrill: stress or whatever, you would think that its currency would 160 00:09:05,250 --> 00:09:07,500 Ray Attrill: suffer. But let's not lose sight of the fact that 161 00:09:07,500 --> 00:09:12,150 Ray Attrill: the US dollar is the preeminent global reserve currency. The 162 00:09:12,150 --> 00:09:16,289 Ray Attrill: US enjoys what's referred to as exorbitant privilege where it 163 00:09:16,289 --> 00:09:19,260 Ray Attrill: gets to issue government debt, if you like, that is 164 00:09:19,260 --> 00:09:22,858 Ray Attrill: denominated in the world's favorite reserve currency. So the US 165 00:09:22,860 --> 00:09:24,900 Ray Attrill: gets away with stuff that the rest of the world 166 00:09:24,900 --> 00:09:28,169 Ray Attrill: frankly doesn't in terms of being able to run big 167 00:09:28,170 --> 00:09:32,310 Ray Attrill: trade deficits and then budget deficits and having no problem 168 00:09:32,460 --> 00:09:35,340 Ray Attrill: attracting capital from the rest of the world in order 169 00:09:35,340 --> 00:09:39,000 Ray Attrill: to fund those deficits. But because of the US dollar's 170 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,750 Ray Attrill: reserve currency status, it does mean when bad things happen 171 00:09:42,750 --> 00:09:47,279 Ray Attrill: in the world, global investors flock to the safe haven, 172 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,179 Ray Attrill: if you like, that is the US dollar. Now, whether that situation 173 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:55,980 Ray Attrill: will persist indefinitely is a great talking point and discussion 174 00:09:55,980 --> 00:09:59,699 Ray Attrill: point in global markets. But the fact is that it's 175 00:09:59,700 --> 00:10:01,949 Ray Attrill: there and it's probably there to stay for some time 176 00:10:01,950 --> 00:10:07,049 Ray Attrill: to come. So anything that causes stress in financial markets 177 00:10:07,620 --> 00:10:11,219 Ray Attrill: is prone to see the US dollar appreciate. And the 178 00:10:11,219 --> 00:10:13,860 Ray Attrill: Aussie dollar, at the end of the day, we are a very 179 00:10:13,860 --> 00:10:19,679 Ray Attrill: small open economy away from... in a dark deep corner 180 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,010 Ray Attrill: of the globe, basically. So if global investors all want to take 181 00:10:23,010 --> 00:10:25,590 Ray Attrill: their money home and stick it under the proverbial mattress 182 00:10:25,980 --> 00:10:29,429 Ray Attrill: for safety, then the Australian dollar tends to be a 183 00:10:29,429 --> 00:10:31,860 Ray Attrill: currency that suffers in that sort of environment. 184 00:10:32,730 --> 00:10:36,330 Sean Aylmer: Ray, one final thing, sorry, just to reiterate your view 185 00:10:36,330 --> 00:10:39,270 Sean Aylmer: on the Aussie dollar over the next 6, 12 months, 186 00:10:39,270 --> 00:10:42,000 Sean Aylmer: you think, well, your central case, at least, lots of 187 00:10:42,150 --> 00:10:43,800 Sean Aylmer: ifs and buts, is that it will appreciate? 188 00:10:44,099 --> 00:10:48,210 Ray Attrill: Yes, it is. And I say that and probably the single biggest caveat that 189 00:10:48,210 --> 00:10:52,380 Ray Attrill: there, the real underlying rationale for that is that the US economy is 190 00:10:52,380 --> 00:10:55,650 Ray Attrill: slowing. Inflation is coming down. As of when the Fed 191 00:10:56,010 --> 00:10:58,949 Ray Attrill: sees fit to start cutting interest rates, that will be a 192 00:10:58,950 --> 00:11:02,310 Ray Attrill: process that will probably continue for another couple of years. 193 00:11:02,580 --> 00:11:05,309 Ray Attrill: And since most of the dollar strength that we've had 194 00:11:05,699 --> 00:11:11,070 Ray Attrill: in recent years really stems directly to the tightening of 195 00:11:11,070 --> 00:11:14,730 Ray Attrill: Fed monetary policy and higher interest rates since mid- 2022, 196 00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:18,870 Ray Attrill: if that process goes into reverse, then history would have 197 00:11:18,870 --> 00:11:21,149 Ray Attrill: you believe that the US dollar will fall. What I 198 00:11:21,150 --> 00:11:23,549 Ray Attrill: would say is that probably the single biggest caveat to 199 00:11:23,549 --> 00:11:28,708 Ray Attrill: that view directly to the Australian dollar is if we are faced with 200 00:11:28,710 --> 00:11:33,360 Ray Attrill: a Trump 2. 0 presidency next year and if President 201 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,770 Ray Attrill: Trump were to go ahead with his threats to impose 202 00:11:37,770 --> 00:11:40,590 Ray Attrill: large scale tariffs, not just on China but the rest 203 00:11:40,590 --> 00:11:44,040 Ray Attrill: of the world, not that I think the call out of daily may go 204 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,200 Ray Attrill: ahead with that, but were he to do that, the 205 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,400 Ray Attrill: consequences for global economic growth I think are pretty negative. 206 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:55,019 Ray Attrill: And in that environment, the dollar will probably do well because 207 00:11:55,020 --> 00:11:57,870 Ray Attrill: it will be a risk- off environment. But the Aussie 208 00:11:57,870 --> 00:12:01,020 Ray Attrill: dollar would be a currency that would probably suffer as 209 00:12:01,020 --> 00:12:03,300 Ray Attrill: much as any in that environment. So if I tell you 210 00:12:03,300 --> 00:12:06,900 Ray Attrill: that I think Aussie dollar will be somewhere between 70 and 75 211 00:12:06,900 --> 00:12:08,730 Ray Attrill: for a good part of next year, and then Trump 212 00:12:08,730 --> 00:12:12,118 Ray Attrill: comes along and imposes swinging tariffs on the rest of 213 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,449 Ray Attrill: the world to which they will retaliate, then all bets 214 00:12:15,450 --> 00:12:17,999 Ray Attrill: would be off as far as a strong Aussie dollar 215 00:12:17,999 --> 00:12:18,569 Ray Attrill: is concerned. 216 00:12:19,289 --> 00:12:20,940 Sean Aylmer: Ray, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 217 00:12:21,390 --> 00:12:22,530 Ray Attrill: My pleasure. Thanks, guys. 218 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,950 Sean Aylmer: That was Ray Attrill, head of FX Strategy at National 219 00:12:25,950 --> 00:12:28,380 Sean Aylmer: Australia Bank. This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. 220 00:12:28,380 --> 00:12:30,330 Sean Aylmer: Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear 221 00:12:30,330 --> 00:12:34,468 Sean Aylmer: and Greed, Australia's best business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy 222 00:12:34,469 --> 00:12:34,618 Sean Aylmer: your day.