WEBVTT - EP 28 - BEING A MAN! W/LUKE BATEMAN 

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up on relatables, ninety two percent of violence and

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<v Speaker 1>abuse against women come from like male violence, when ninety

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<v Speaker 1>two percent of it comes from a man that the

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<v Speaker 1>woman knows, either a partner or a family member or

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<v Speaker 1>someone in their in their close circle. So you know

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<v Speaker 1>when men talk about, you know, being like protectors, the

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<v Speaker 1>person that needs to be the person that your partner

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<v Speaker 1>needs to be protected from is you. Yeah, like, statistically

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<v Speaker 1>ninety two percent, So it's not even happening. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>we're not talking about women getting you know, assaulted by

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<v Speaker 1>a random man in the street. We're talking about women

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<v Speaker 1>getting bashed at home and abused at home by brother, father, partner,

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<v Speaker 1>et cetera.

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<v Speaker 2>Relatable relat Okay, listen to a podcast the other day

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<v Speaker 2>that you were on Luke and you said that you

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<v Speaker 2>ask your ten year old self and your eighty year

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<v Speaker 2>old self for advice. Yep, So I have a scenario

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<v Speaker 2>and I want to know what your ten year old

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<v Speaker 2>self and what your eight year old self would say

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<v Speaker 2>in this scenario. Pretty simple one. You've just been dumped,

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<v Speaker 2>came out of the blue, broken hearted. You know, you

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<v Speaker 2>can't think of what your next step is going to be.

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<v Speaker 2>What would your ten year old self give you advice,

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<v Speaker 2>and what would your aid?

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<v Speaker 1>Your old self give you a great question. I know

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<v Speaker 1>exactly what my eight year old self would say to me.

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<v Speaker 1>My eighty year old self would say that it's happened

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<v Speaker 1>for a reason. That he would say that rejection is protection.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, what's good.

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<v Speaker 1>That's exactly rejection is protection. Rejection is protection up. No, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I can't trade mark. That's I think that's that's the

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<v Speaker 1>sort of saying I suppose. Ah, yeah, rejection of second

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<v Speaker 1>that's for me. A the old self would say to me,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't know why yet, but it's happened for a reason,

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<v Speaker 1>and that like that, Yeah, that's what meself saying. A

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<v Speaker 1>ten year old self, he would say to me, My

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<v Speaker 1>tenyurred telf would probably just cudd on me. I reckon

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<v Speaker 1>oh he just yea.

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<v Speaker 2>I was expecting like a fuck that anyway, she was

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<v Speaker 2>the one.

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<v Speaker 1>My ten year old self would just be like, come

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<v Speaker 1>over here and give us a cuddle and cry together.

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<v Speaker 3>And what's the reason for doing both dynamics of eighty

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<v Speaker 3>and ten.

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<v Speaker 1>I was so you want to make you want to

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<v Speaker 1>be the man that would make your ten year old

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<v Speaker 1>self proud. You want to be the kind of man

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<v Speaker 1>that your ten year old self would look up to.

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<v Speaker 1>There'd be a role model, a hero to you. And

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<v Speaker 1>you want to be the kind of person your eighty

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<v Speaker 1>old self will look back at and go I made

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<v Speaker 1>I lived to my values, and I did everything in

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<v Speaker 1>life that I wanted to do. I didn't let fear

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<v Speaker 1>control me, or I don't have I don't have any

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<v Speaker 1>large regrets.

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<v Speaker 2>I like that.

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<v Speaker 3>I love it talking about younger selves, Jake. There's one

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<v Speaker 3>thing I've taken from my youth and I know for

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<v Speaker 3>a fact that I'm still going to be doing this

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<v Speaker 3>when I'm eighty, is what's enjoying.

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<v Speaker 2>Here we go Crispy Creams. Looks like you may have

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<v Speaker 2>enjoyed one or two right now. I have here, take

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<v Speaker 2>take one. Thank you very much, very much, appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 2>Krispy Kremes. When I was a kid, I love them.

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<v Speaker 3>I love them still do. And I've always had the

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<v Speaker 3>motto because why not just because Yeah, I'm a.

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<v Speaker 2>Bit of a sucker for a cheeky little maybe a

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<v Speaker 2>road trip. Yes, maybe I'm on a road trip. And

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<v Speaker 2>then I'm going past and filling my cart with fuel,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, as you do on a road trip. And

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<v Speaker 2>I go in and I'm like, it's like have you

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<v Speaker 2>ever you know, like in shows when someone looks at

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<v Speaker 2>something and it's got the white lights behind it than

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<v Speaker 2>in the music. The background music's like ahh to go in.

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<v Speaker 2>You see Krispy Kreme stand three two one? Oh No,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm the same. So I feel when I walk in

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<v Speaker 2>and see airports, I think the same thing. Oh, Sydney

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<v Speaker 2>Airport having a standalone Krispy Green. What's one more? What's

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<v Speaker 2>one more? Good question?

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<v Speaker 3>I saw this and thought of you. Three two one,

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<v Speaker 3>go grab a Krispy Kreme. Today, The Relatables podcast is

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<v Speaker 3>hosted by myself, Audie Clark okay, mummy and my partner

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<v Speaker 3>in crime, mister Jake Craig ak Daddy, that's me.

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<v Speaker 2>Luke didn't know that we wanted him about that. Very

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<v Speaker 2>special guests. We have author so soon to be author

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<v Speaker 2>currently writing a book. Logger everybody here. He's not a farmer,

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<v Speaker 2>he's a logger and X n R L star anything else.

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<v Speaker 2>Which that was your first job when you grew up?

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<v Speaker 1>I used to pack. I used to pack shelves at

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<v Speaker 1>a fruit market, so we.

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<v Speaker 2>Can shelf packerbody.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks all right, we wanted to start the episode with

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<v Speaker 3>you said your up and coming author, and we have

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<v Speaker 3>organically dabbled in that space as well, so we wanted

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<v Speaker 3>to pitch you our book idea.

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<v Speaker 2>Doubled is a strong so we have a book club.

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<v Speaker 3>And it came up organically that we could I'm not

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<v Speaker 3>going to say write a book, but write maybe like.

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<v Speaker 2>A solid ten chapters.

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<v Speaker 3>And we were just spitballing one time and we thought

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<v Speaker 3>we landed, and we thought we could come to the

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<v Speaker 3>pro and you tell us if it's actually a good idea.

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<v Speaker 1>Will give you the book.

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<v Speaker 2>The hardest thing is like, there's backstory, and I'll give

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<v Speaker 2>it to you so quickly. All of this has happened

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<v Speaker 2>on Patreon, unfortunately to people that are on Patreon, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's in the description if you want to go find it.

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<v Speaker 2>And we have all of our audience we call them

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<v Speaker 2>the baddies, and then very recently we've started deciding that

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<v Speaker 2>we want to make the United Nation of Baddies. We

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<v Speaker 2>want to buy an island. Yeah, so that's something to

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<v Speaker 2>keep in mind. And Oddie wants to name one of

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<v Speaker 2>his kids. He doesn't have any kids yet, but in

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<v Speaker 2>the future he wants the name is kids after the

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<v Speaker 2>botanical name for an Australian native plant. Okay, I found

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<v Speaker 2>a list of them and basically our you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>hear the names pola and callistomon. So just keep that

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<v Speaker 2>in mind. And that's all the bout story.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, world setting, should we say, should we set it

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<v Speaker 3>with ourselves?

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<v Speaker 2>We're in the book? Yeah, okay, yeah, of course.

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<v Speaker 1>Well yeah, so what genre are we talking here? Okay?

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<v Speaker 1>Fantasy with you boys?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah he said that, as if that doesn't make.

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<v Speaker 1>Sense, this is a bad premise.

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<v Speaker 2>We're in, but we're not the main characters. No, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>where okay, so think about it. So we've got the

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<v Speaker 2>u n B the United Nation of Baddies. It's an island,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's split in half. Each half has a high

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<v Speaker 2>lady running it. High Lady Bethany is my girlfriend, and

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<v Speaker 2>High Lady Cassie is his girlfriend. We're wife and husband,

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<v Speaker 2>be seeing so they have just like their high lady

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<v Speaker 2>and they're both very good high ladies to their people.

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<v Speaker 2>Each side has like kind of different you know, things

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<v Speaker 2>about them. They don't hate each other, and then different

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<v Speaker 2>cultures and then we come in they meet them their husbands.

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<v Speaker 2>We're spiteful we're high lords now maybe high men, and

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<v Speaker 2>we I'm high Lord Power.

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<v Speaker 3>High Lord calystemons On, and we both have a child,

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<v Speaker 3>son daughter.

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<v Speaker 2>They both die, we both blame each other for their deaths.

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<v Speaker 2>So now the UNB is cutting big divide, big divide. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and I will premise the high ladies that don't they

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<v Speaker 2>don't really give much of a ship, but we.

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<v Speaker 3>Are causing a rocket yeah, okay, okay, yeah, and then

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<v Speaker 3>our magic system is working on the name. But it's

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<v Speaker 3>dream based, so when you go to sleep, whatever you dream,

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<v Speaker 3>you wake up with that power.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 3>And so there's a bit of confusion in the UNB

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<v Speaker 3>with people trying to stay awake for too long because

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<v Speaker 3>they want to keep their good powers, and people who

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<v Speaker 3>are sleeping for too long because they're trying to get

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<v Speaker 3>a good power. So there's heaps of people stand awake

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<v Speaker 3>and not functioning, and there's heaps of people who are

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<v Speaker 3>just always asleep.

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<v Speaker 1>Interesting yeah, interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, as far as we've got yeah, okay, could you work.

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<v Speaker 1>It's got legs, Yes, it's got legs. We want it's

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<v Speaker 1>got legs. I'd love to know motivations for characters. Ye,

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<v Speaker 1>So I'd love to know what your you know what

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<v Speaker 1>the motivations are for how the how that's going to

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<v Speaker 1>propel the story along. So you need to so and callistemon.

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<v Speaker 1>They need to.

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<v Speaker 2>Very good fantacy names.

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<v Speaker 1>I might steal it.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you what if you do. They're all all life.

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<v Speaker 1>But what we need to know, so then you need

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<v Speaker 1>to work out, So what are their motivators? What was

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<v Speaker 1>their childhood like? Are they are they driven by fear?

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<v Speaker 1>They driven by greed? Are they driven by sadness? Like

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<v Speaker 1>you both had your children die? So I imagine that

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<v Speaker 1>they're both driven by sadness. You need to know what

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<v Speaker 1>their motivators are. And with your magic system, if every

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<v Speaker 1>single person in the entire world can get powers from

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<v Speaker 1>their dreams, then how does that make if everyone special?

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<v Speaker 1>No one special sort of thing? And that's finally you

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<v Speaker 1>don't actually have to have people special. But you need

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<v Speaker 1>to know the answer to that question.

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<v Speaker 2>Why are we special? So no, wh're not. That's the

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<v Speaker 2>thing is, we're not going to think we are. We're men.

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<v Speaker 1>And also and if and if and if you're and

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<v Speaker 1>if you're what if the high ladies don't care? But

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<v Speaker 1>are you seeing as you've sort of come in into

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<v Speaker 1>this pace, so who actually makes decisions like who holds

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<v Speaker 1>the power because the high ladies don't care and you

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<v Speaker 1>two are running a running a mark. Surely the surely

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<v Speaker 1>the high laders is stepping in and going like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>here's there's a lot of whys, but there's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of why. And I go through these too when my

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<v Speaker 1>publisher will literally like put comments on my think why

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<v Speaker 1>why why? And you know, and that's the thing because

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<v Speaker 1>you're like because sometimes you and she's like, yeah, she's

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<v Speaker 1>like I don't know why because it's cool because I

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<v Speaker 1>like it. That's yeah, and you know, maybe that is

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<v Speaker 1>your why. But yeah, so I think you've got legs

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<v Speaker 1>and you've got and you've got a cool world. I

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<v Speaker 1>really like the two opposing cultures. That's really cool because

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<v Speaker 1>you can do a real the dynamic between those can

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<v Speaker 1>be really distinct, and it's like how how they sort

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<v Speaker 1>of interact with each other coming from different cultures. Because

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of fantasy, that's a lot of a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of fantasy actually takes all of the elements from our

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<v Speaker 1>real world, like be a political, cultural, class, gender, race,

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<v Speaker 1>and they put it into fantasy books and that's they

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<v Speaker 1>put it through that scope. Of fantasy. So a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of what you're actually reading is actually a story about

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<v Speaker 1>the real world through a fantasy lens. I may have

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<v Speaker 1>taken this all. I mean, you've got legs, you've got.

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<v Speaker 2>Our final pitch was we want you in the book.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, and we're thinking unless you add some mightyars off

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<v Speaker 3>the top of your head, am I my son's actually

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<v Speaker 3>my son is actually not dead and he's actually like

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<v Speaker 3>got an alias.

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<v Speaker 2>And you can be him.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, But if you could call yourself anything in a book,

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<v Speaker 3>what would it be?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, if we're going to go with like poem callistomone,

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<v Speaker 1>I think i'd have to be like.

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<v Speaker 2>We can't sound like pokemon. Yeah, Like, there's a few

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<v Speaker 2>different plan Oh, I tell you what we can do.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll insert it or something.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll go up.

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<v Speaker 3>What's the pines.

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<v Speaker 1>That you log cypress pine?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so you can just be called cypress botanical name

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<v Speaker 3>for Cyprus.

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<v Speaker 1>There is no whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>The botanical name for Cyprus is, that'll be. That'll be. Yeah.

0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:31.800
<v Speaker 1>But so if I am the son, how and I

0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.480
<v Speaker 1>am not dead? Who's looking after me? And how old?

0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:36.400
<v Speaker 1>Am I?

0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.120
<v Speaker 2>No? Here's the thing, right, So you're old, you're you

0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:44.400
<v Speaker 2>take care of yourself, right, You're like, you guys are annoying.

0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:47.360
<v Speaker 2>But basically what we were thinking at one point as well,

0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.600
<v Speaker 2>was we stid away from this slightly. Is so my

0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:55.120
<v Speaker 2>daughter and you actually had a relationship, but it was

0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.720
<v Speaker 2>sort of like you know, Romeo and Juliet style, where

0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.480
<v Speaker 2>they couldn't be together, all right, and we were all

0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.920
<v Speaker 2>like no, no, no, no, no, okay, And so then I

0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.840
<v Speaker 2>have maybe because you're alive. You guys were going to

0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:12.400
<v Speaker 2>commit the double suicide, but she didn't and you didn't. Yeah,

0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.440
<v Speaker 2>and the brandchild involved where.

0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.480
<v Speaker 1>I would I would say to you that it's probably

0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:22.439
<v Speaker 1>getting too complex at this point. Okay, you've got too

0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:27.600
<v Speaker 1>many wise, and we can add into Grandchile. Yeah, but

0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:30.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm losing track of I'm losing track of the war

0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.959
<v Speaker 1>between these two, these two high We can work on it.

0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.240
<v Speaker 2>We can work on that. Yeah, we can work on that.

0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:37.960
<v Speaker 2>We'll come back to you maybe in like a few months.

0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:41.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you've got legs with it, the dream Magic system

0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.240
<v Speaker 1>like that. Yeah, I'm a big fan of that. Actually, Yeah,

0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:45.120
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how that.

0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:47.680
<v Speaker 2>I think it'd be cooler if the classmen could do

0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:49.320
<v Speaker 2>it and lower classmen couldn't or something.

0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:52.079
<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean usually with magic, you want to try

0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:56.720
<v Speaker 1>and it usually is a it's something that separates classes,

0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:01.640
<v Speaker 1>or it's it's it's something that's either separate, as you said,

0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:05.120
<v Speaker 1>like the elite from the from the lower class, or

0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:10.240
<v Speaker 1>it is something that is really hated upon. I would say, oh,

0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:15.480
<v Speaker 1>what's what's what I'm looking for? Persecuted. So yeah, so

0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.800
<v Speaker 1>usually like magic users either like the elites or they're

0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:20.320
<v Speaker 1>the persecuted things like that.

0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:23.120
<v Speaker 2>That makes sense. Is there any magic systems you don't

0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.920
<v Speaker 2>like in books that are like pretty popular?

0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Hmm, well, seen as we were talking about Akatar earlier.

0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.360
<v Speaker 1>So Akatar for me is really so when you talk

0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:38.520
<v Speaker 1>magic systems, you've got hard magic systems and soft magic systems,

0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:41.120
<v Speaker 1>and hard magic systems are have you I don't know

0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:43.840
<v Speaker 1>they ever run any Brandon Sanderson Brandon send is probably

0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:47.320
<v Speaker 1>like the absolute pinnacle of hard magic systems. Hard to read.

0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you haven't want to He's Okay.

0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.160
<v Speaker 1>I've got issues with Sandson, but but I really respect

0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.120
<v Speaker 1>what he does. I think he's incredible what he does.

0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:58.480
<v Speaker 1>But when you talk when we're talking magic systems, so

0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.920
<v Speaker 1>if they're hard magic systems, it's it's like it's engineering,

0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:05.000
<v Speaker 1>like it's something you cannot have this without this, and

0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:06.640
<v Speaker 1>this is how this works, and you have to go

0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:08.840
<v Speaker 1>through these steps for this to happen. It's such a

0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:14.920
<v Speaker 1>very rigid, very set up. And the more the more

0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.960
<v Speaker 1>a magic system, the bigger the role the magic system

0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:21.080
<v Speaker 1>plays in the world, the harder it has to be,

0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:23.800
<v Speaker 1>if that makes sense, because if it plays a massive

0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.600
<v Speaker 1>role in your story, it needs to be a hard,

0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:30.720
<v Speaker 1>like really outlaid magic system. Then you have soft magic systems,

0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:34.400
<v Speaker 1>which are more like a Gandalf if you don't really

0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:36.760
<v Speaker 1>actually sort of like know what his the limits of

0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:38.760
<v Speaker 1>his power are. With the scope of his powers, he

0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:42.440
<v Speaker 1>couldn't sort of do these things, but his magic doesn't

0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.120
<v Speaker 1>have a huge role in the story, so it doesn't

0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:47.680
<v Speaker 1>really need to be defined. My issue with an Akata

0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.520
<v Speaker 1>say so, it's not so much I hate magic systems.

0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.240
<v Speaker 1>What I hate is when I'm reading a book and

0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.960
<v Speaker 1>it's a soft magic system that solves that can just

0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:57.240
<v Speaker 1>solve everything. Ah.

0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.600
<v Speaker 2>So when you because we have he did a some

0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:04.200
<v Speaker 2>rebottals with that, how many act books have you read?

0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:06.480
<v Speaker 1>I've read the first three, so you finished, so.

0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, So spoiler alert, everyone's about to come up

0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:11.040
<v Speaker 2>basically at the end of the third one.

0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Yep, when when they went.

0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Against it went spoiler alert when Reese dies. Yes it,

0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:18.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm not gonna lie.

0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:18.480
<v Speaker 1>Like.

0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:20.800
<v Speaker 2>I was like, cool, he came back to life. But

0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.200
<v Speaker 2>I also was like, if you're going to kill someone,

0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.000
<v Speaker 2>kill someone. Then what pissed me off even more was

0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:28.440
<v Speaker 2>when they bring him back to life and then Amron,

0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.680
<v Speaker 2>who literally just like committed suicide to save everyone, right,

0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.480
<v Speaker 2>He's like, oh, we better get Amory out, she's getting cold.

0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:37.400
<v Speaker 2>I was like, Okay, I pissed me off even more.

0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. See, that's that's what I mean. When you've

0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.160
<v Speaker 1>got these And that's my issue with the Actars. It

0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:45.920
<v Speaker 1>never really defined what the magic could do. And Fairah

0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.920
<v Speaker 1>sort of she was at times like she was the

0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:52.080
<v Speaker 1>she was the most powerful being or she had, you know,

0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:53.960
<v Speaker 1>in the whole thing. But then when they went to war,

0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:56.920
<v Speaker 1>they're like, sit out, and I was like, you don't

0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:58.560
<v Speaker 1>leave a Ferrari in the garage.

0:16:58.720 --> 0:16:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I do agree.

0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And so the my issues I said that I

0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.240
<v Speaker 1>don't have any issue. I love all magic systems, but

0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.399
<v Speaker 1>my issue is when a soft magic system needs to

0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:10.800
<v Speaker 1>be a hard magicism because you can't once you if

0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.040
<v Speaker 1>you don't define what it does and it sort of

0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:15.399
<v Speaker 1>saves a day or you're just that you get to

0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:17.080
<v Speaker 1>the end of the book and assist crisis moment and

0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.480
<v Speaker 1>she's like, oh, I've got this power that can save

0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:24.120
<v Speaker 1>the entire planet, and you're like, where did that come from? Yeah,

0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:26.600
<v Speaker 1>so that's so that's my issue. You need to the why.

0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:31.200
<v Speaker 2>They must have got a wye on that, and she

0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:32.040
<v Speaker 2>would have just said.

0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.160
<v Speaker 1>But because, but I mean also, then you got also

0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.320
<v Speaker 1>that's Romancey, so you don't actually you're not really reading

0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:42.000
<v Speaker 1>a Romancey for a magic system because it's much more

0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.920
<v Speaker 1>about I think they're much more about the accessibility and

0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:47.240
<v Speaker 1>their strength is in other areas.

0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.479
<v Speaker 2>We got comments same because we we went hard. I

0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:53.160
<v Speaker 2>remember I was I was going hard.

0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:55.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure, I'm actually I remember seeing the clip of

0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:57.920
<v Speaker 1>you boys reading that really yeah, yeah, fair.

0:17:58.000 --> 0:17:59.840
<v Speaker 2>I remember we got some comments and people being like,

0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.880
<v Speaker 2>it's a fantasy book, like a happy ending.

0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I was like, look, fair, but that I

0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:08.200
<v Speaker 1>had an issue with two because book three, I said,

0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.639
<v Speaker 1>it's this is too Disney like everyone everyone lives and

0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:13.000
<v Speaker 1>everyone's the day saved.

0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:16.560
<v Speaker 2>That is true, I will say if you read the

0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:17.080
<v Speaker 2>rest of it.

0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:18.280
<v Speaker 3>Book.

0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:24.160
<v Speaker 2>So book four is the little novella and it's it's

0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:28.399
<v Speaker 2>it's a setup for yeah, yeah, it's it's it's a

0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:33.040
<v Speaker 2>set no Frost and Starlight, sorry novella and then Silver Flames.

0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.320
<v Speaker 2>It's a really good book. But it's once again just

0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:37.960
<v Speaker 2>like there is lots of moments where the softer magic

0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:42.760
<v Speaker 2>just it just saves them always. Yeah, there's like this massive,

0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:45.359
<v Speaker 2>massive build up. I won't spoil it, but just there's

0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.040
<v Speaker 2>this huge build up. Like the fifth book is actually

0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:52.200
<v Speaker 2>about Nesta, it's not about recent and so her story

0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:57.639
<v Speaker 2>is awesome, like her growth is amazing, but at the

0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:01.639
<v Speaker 2>very very end, there was this massive build up for

0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.879
<v Speaker 2>this thing that was so terrible and then she's just

0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:10.480
<v Speaker 2>like it's like, oh I forgot I could do this. Yeah,

0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:13.760
<v Speaker 2>and then it just everything. But at the same time,

0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:15.760
<v Speaker 2>I was kind of like I read it for the smart.

0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:18.439
<v Speaker 1>Like at the end of the day, that's actually not

0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:19.000
<v Speaker 1>what you're reading.

0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:23.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but so yeah, it was good. Damn. We have

0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:28.280
<v Speaker 2>actually talking about smart talking about we have a bit

0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:30.200
<v Speaker 2>of a game we'd like to play with you.

0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:34.800
<v Speaker 3>Have you read much Smart Hate, Yeah, we actually do

0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:39.000
<v Speaker 3>quite enjoy it and we thought we'd play a game

0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:39.280
<v Speaker 3>with you.

0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:49.360
<v Speaker 2>Let me, let me just so we're going to read.

0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:54.680
<v Speaker 2>We're going to read you some passages from books, and

0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.600
<v Speaker 2>you need to tell us whether it is actually from

0:19:57.600 --> 0:19:59.879
<v Speaker 2>a smart book or if it's from our brains.

0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:02.480
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.200
<v Speaker 2>I was really keen to do this. And now I'm

0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:10.280
<v Speaker 2>we're going to get.

0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:14.320
<v Speaker 1>A character a bit, give me, give me a real

0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:15.800
<v Speaker 1>smoky voice and stop.

0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.800
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, we'll get you to read them after. Yeah,

0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.920
<v Speaker 2>you're like the best, really nice people. Yeah.

0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:24.520
<v Speaker 3>Well, the good thing that we because we were new

0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:26.760
<v Speaker 3>to the whole smart world in a Katar is like

0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.199
<v Speaker 3>it was eye opening in a sense of it teaches

0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:31.600
<v Speaker 3>so much of how men should be having sex with

0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:32.400
<v Speaker 3>their partners as well.

0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:37.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well for so long, you know, women were getting

0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:40.840
<v Speaker 1>a lot of their intimacy from those books. They weren't

0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:43.400
<v Speaker 1>getting it in the real world. And yeah, I mean

0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.200
<v Speaker 1>and still and still now yeah, of course, yeah it's still.

0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:50.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, those books like changed a lot for me.

0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:57.320
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, and it's very eye opening as a male.

0:20:58.280 --> 0:20:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Hang on a minute, it's almost like I think I

0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:01.920
<v Speaker 1>pay more attention to it's almost a hack.

0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:05.000
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, and then all the other blogs give your

0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:10.119
<v Speaker 5>ship for reading god fantasy, smart or just smut in

0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:13.480
<v Speaker 5>general when it's written by a woman, is an actual,

0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:15.960
<v Speaker 5>like step by step.

0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:18.240
<v Speaker 2>Guide of what women want in the bedroom.

0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:22.400
<v Speaker 1>Yes, absolutely, I would say it some sometimes, like some

0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:26.520
<v Speaker 1>things you're just like that is completely unrealistic, of course,

0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:29.320
<v Speaker 1>but definitely and even but even as a man, you know,

0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:32.480
<v Speaker 1>even I would say as a man, there are things

0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:36.320
<v Speaker 1>I've read in books I'm like, I would like that, Oh,

0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:39.119
<v Speaker 1>that'd be really nice, Like I think i'd really enjoy that,

0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:42.919
<v Speaker 1>you know, like when especially when it's a lot I've

0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:48.120
<v Speaker 1>read Fabulous Mother's Duel POV. It's a male and female

0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:50.640
<v Speaker 1>and you get like the female and what the female

0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:55.320
<v Speaker 1>does to the man is I'm like, I really like that? Yeah,

0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:58.640
<v Speaker 1>like really because because something like and you just said

0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:02.280
<v Speaker 1>we were taught white porn, Yeah, and you just so

0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:05.920
<v Speaker 1>just have this one image of what sex should be

0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:08.800
<v Speaker 1>and that's it. Yeah, and you actually and so even

0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:10.480
<v Speaker 1>as a man, I think that there's many things in

0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:13.000
<v Speaker 1>those books where I've been and they like I'll be

0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:16.520
<v Speaker 1>reading them, I'll be getting aralist and I'm like, I want,

0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:17.520
<v Speaker 1>I want to do this.

0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:22.080
<v Speaker 2>It's yeah, I have you read dagamouth No okay, good book.

0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:25.120
<v Speaker 2>But I was reading it and like within the first

0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:27.920
<v Speaker 2>like five chapters, I was like reading it and I

0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:30.520
<v Speaker 2>remember in my heart started racing and I was like, fuck,

0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:31.919
<v Speaker 2>what the hell? And I like put it down for

0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:33.679
<v Speaker 2>a bit and I was like Jesus Christ, I was like,

0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:37.720
<v Speaker 2>and I was just like this is I was just

0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:41.600
<v Speaker 2>like that was. So I was speechless. It was like

0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:44.160
<v Speaker 2>the craziest thing, and like I could, I didn't fully

0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:46.000
<v Speaker 2>do that for me because like it.

0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:49.120
<v Speaker 1>Was is still not like super spicy.

0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:51.000
<v Speaker 2>No, and it's not spicyest no, and like Daggermouth is

0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:53.720
<v Speaker 2>set more. It's like a dystopian like the world could

0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:56.639
<v Speaker 2>eventually like you can imagine that could happen, like magic.

0:22:57.080 --> 0:23:00.359
<v Speaker 3>And so I was kind of like, dang, we were

0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:02.600
<v Speaker 3>going to do some role play, but we decided against it,

0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:04.679
<v Speaker 3>like male female and would both back together.

0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:11.120
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, So.

0:23:13.600 --> 0:23:14.720
<v Speaker 1>Are you ready good?

0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:18.560
<v Speaker 2>Is this from a smutty book? Yeah? Is this from

0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:20.440
<v Speaker 2>a smutty book or from one of our brains?

0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:20.720
<v Speaker 1>Yep?

0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:27.439
<v Speaker 2>He accentuated every word with a savage thrust. Do I

0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:31.520
<v Speaker 2>feel good to you? She whimpered her confirmation, then managed

0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:33.960
<v Speaker 2>to say I like it when you ride me hard

0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:37.280
<v Speaker 2>every time I move and my body is sore. She

0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:40.160
<v Speaker 2>had to fight for the words for control. I think

0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:44.520
<v Speaker 2>of you, of your cock. Good. I want my cock

0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:46.880
<v Speaker 2>to be the only thing you think about. His pace

0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:49.800
<v Speaker 2>faltered as he licked up the column of her neck.

0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:53.200
<v Speaker 2>She could hear the taunting smile in his words as

0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:56.760
<v Speaker 2>he whispered, because your pretty little is the only thing

0:23:56.880 --> 0:24:03.320
<v Speaker 2>I think about. That is from a novel, correct, Yeah,

0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:06.320
<v Speaker 2>that is all ship that that's actually from Sarah J.

0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:06.880
<v Speaker 1>Mass novel.

0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:09.399
<v Speaker 2>There what gave away?

0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:13.000
<v Speaker 1>I think straight off the bat. When she said it

0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:16.760
<v Speaker 1>accentuated every word. I was like, that's a writer.

0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, fair, dang it you might. That's so true.

0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:26.480
<v Speaker 2>You one from one, one from one. All right, my turn,

0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:28.720
<v Speaker 2>I gotta get a character a bit. Sorry, that was

0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:32.200
<v Speaker 2>a quarter sivil flames, by the way, you can read it.

0:24:33.640 --> 0:24:34.119
<v Speaker 2>Here we go.

0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:37.640
<v Speaker 3>She pushed him gently back onto the bed and paused,

0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:41.760
<v Speaker 3>allowing herself a moment to take him in. The confidence

0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:44.040
<v Speaker 3>in her gaze made his breath quicken.

0:24:44.760 --> 0:24:46.280
<v Speaker 1>He reaps. He reached for the.

0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:49.840
<v Speaker 3>Clasp of her Crimson Crimson lace, but she caught his

0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:54.680
<v Speaker 3>wrist with a playful smile. And said, just watch, don't touch.

0:24:55.480 --> 0:25:00.400
<v Speaker 3>Slowly deliberating, she stepped back and began to undress, never

0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:05.360
<v Speaker 3>breaking eye contact. Every moment was unhurried, calculated, and entirely

0:25:05.440 --> 0:25:09.320
<v Speaker 3>on her terms. The anticipation in the room grew heavier

0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:13.439
<v Speaker 3>with each passing second. She could see the effect she

0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:16.680
<v Speaker 3>was She could see the effect she was having on him,

0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:20.400
<v Speaker 3>the way his eyes followed her every movement, the way

0:25:20.400 --> 0:25:23.679
<v Speaker 3>his cock grew thicker and longer with every movement. In

0:25:23.720 --> 0:25:26.680
<v Speaker 3>that moment, she held all the power, and she knew it.

0:25:29.760 --> 0:25:35.760
<v Speaker 1>That's from what his brain God all.

0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:39.280
<v Speaker 2>Game that way. I thought that was good.

0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:42.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm very honest. The way you were reading that was

0:25:42.080 --> 0:25:44.480
<v Speaker 1>exactly the way someone who wrote their own thing would

0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:44.800
<v Speaker 1>read it.

0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:46.880
<v Speaker 2>Ah, so we should have read each other's.

0:25:48.680 --> 0:25:52.240
<v Speaker 1>But also, you actually repeated a word.

0:25:52.080 --> 0:25:55.520
<v Speaker 2>Movement twice, that movement twice when you were reading it.

0:25:55.560 --> 0:25:57.000
<v Speaker 2>I heard it and no and.

0:25:56.960 --> 0:26:00.399
<v Speaker 1>No and no author. I mean you you do I

0:26:00.440 --> 0:26:05.000
<v Speaker 1>do it all the time. You don't repeat words in

0:26:05.040 --> 0:26:08.040
<v Speaker 1>the same paragraph.

0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:14.040
<v Speaker 3>Dang, I was soe, we'll get one, we'll get one,

0:26:14.280 --> 0:26:14.760
<v Speaker 3>We'll get.

0:26:17.160 --> 0:26:21.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay. He focuses on my mouth, then back to my

0:26:21.600 --> 0:26:26.120
<v Speaker 2>eyes again, then back to my mouth. He whispers my name.

0:26:26.760 --> 0:26:29.280
<v Speaker 2>He says my name so softly, I'm not even sure

0:26:29.320 --> 0:26:32.400
<v Speaker 2>if his mouth moves. I don't have time to respond.

0:26:32.920 --> 0:26:35.280
<v Speaker 2>His hand leaves the button of my shirt and slides

0:26:35.320 --> 0:26:37.479
<v Speaker 2>through my hair. At the same moment as his lips

0:26:37.640 --> 0:26:40.760
<v Speaker 2>connect fiercely with mine. He slides his body on top

0:26:40.800 --> 0:26:46.280
<v Speaker 2>of me, and his kiss instantly becomes intense, deep, dominating.

0:26:46.800 --> 0:26:49.560
<v Speaker 2>His kiss is full of something that's never been there before,

0:26:49.920 --> 0:26:51.679
<v Speaker 2>full of feeling, full of hope.

0:26:52.720 --> 0:26:57.960
<v Speaker 1>Mm, that's from the big Fellow's brain.

0:26:58.119 --> 0:27:03.160
<v Speaker 3>No, that's a compliment to You's god.

0:27:03.600 --> 0:27:04.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, ugly love.

0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:05.480
<v Speaker 2>Colin Hoover.

0:27:06.119 --> 0:27:08.320
<v Speaker 1>There you go. Okay, you know what.

0:27:08.800 --> 0:27:11.159
<v Speaker 2>I know what I did to you. Though they use

0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:13.280
<v Speaker 2>a name in here, and I didn't say the name

0:27:14.400 --> 0:27:18.119
<v Speaker 2>I was going to say. I was going to say blank,

0:27:18.320 --> 0:27:20.720
<v Speaker 2>he whispers, but instead I said, he whispers my name.

0:27:22.240 --> 0:27:25.040
<v Speaker 2>You would have got it if I said blank, he whispers. Okay,

0:27:25.119 --> 0:27:26.280
<v Speaker 2>let's oh.

0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:29.919
<v Speaker 1>I mean, oh yes, if you said blank, yeah, that

0:27:29.920 --> 0:27:30.760
<v Speaker 1>would have gave it.

0:27:32.760 --> 0:27:34.880
<v Speaker 2>But that's not about it's about the feel. It's about

0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:40.760
<v Speaker 2>the Okay, Okay, let's say he's two from three. He's

0:27:40.760 --> 0:27:44.080
<v Speaker 2>pretty good, pretty good. I think that's a compliment.

0:27:46.359 --> 0:27:48.040
<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna try to read it the same way no

0:27:48.080 --> 0:27:48.760
<v Speaker 3>matter what I do.

0:27:51.240 --> 0:27:52.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, here we go.

0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:55.919
<v Speaker 3>He pushed her leg aside and sank inside her. She

0:27:56.080 --> 0:27:59.000
<v Speaker 3>groaned and arched, forcing him to speed up to a

0:27:59.040 --> 0:28:03.000
<v Speaker 3>faster pace. His fingers clenched over her thigh, and he

0:28:03.040 --> 0:28:08.199
<v Speaker 3>moved harder, deeper, shafting her in long, fast strokes. Delicious.

0:28:09.080 --> 0:28:13.200
<v Speaker 2>She slid her hands down over his back, slick with sweat,

0:28:13.520 --> 0:28:18.960
<v Speaker 2>and grasped his pumping butt cheeks. He pressed his mouth

0:28:19.040 --> 0:28:22.480
<v Speaker 2>against her neck and kissed her, his tongue working over

0:28:22.600 --> 0:28:23.639
<v Speaker 2>her sensitive skin.

0:28:24.400 --> 0:28:24.680
<v Speaker 3>Fuck.

0:28:24.880 --> 0:28:28.840
<v Speaker 1>He mumbled, that's from a romance novel.

0:28:30.200 --> 0:28:35.880
<v Speaker 3>Good good, good good answer The Right sweighte by Alicia Ray,

0:28:37.720 --> 0:28:38.560
<v Speaker 3>something a bit different.

0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:41.160
<v Speaker 2>I remember when I read that, I was like, that's good.

0:28:41.600 --> 0:28:43.040
<v Speaker 2>I thought I was gonna get in with the butt cheeks.

0:28:43.040 --> 0:28:47.040
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, funny, you know what actually thought. That's that's

0:28:47.040 --> 0:28:49.640
<v Speaker 1>why I thought it was a romance novel, to be honest,

0:28:49.720 --> 0:28:51.800
<v Speaker 1>because I wouldn't say that. I don't think you'd say that.

0:28:51.880 --> 0:28:56.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because also full transparency. One time when me and

0:28:56.920 --> 0:29:00.760
<v Speaker 2>my girlfriend were making love, she brought her hands around

0:29:00.760 --> 0:29:06.640
<v Speaker 2>in my bum and afterwards I was like, slightly vulnerable

0:29:07.040 --> 0:29:10.120
<v Speaker 2>in that in that moment.

0:29:11.640 --> 0:29:14.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, that is a vulnerable position.

0:29:16.520 --> 0:29:19.600
<v Speaker 2>It's not I don't know the side, but bum. I

0:29:19.680 --> 0:29:20.520
<v Speaker 2>also don't have a bum.

0:29:20.600 --> 0:29:25.040
<v Speaker 3>So like, just like that, I'm thinking like I've got nothing,

0:29:25.080 --> 0:29:25.760
<v Speaker 3>nothing to grab.

0:29:26.560 --> 0:29:30.760
<v Speaker 2>That's fair. Yeah, I remember being like a bit of

0:29:30.800 --> 0:29:38.280
<v Speaker 2>a postgame interview. Let's do a review on that. Bring up,

0:29:40.480 --> 0:29:45.000
<v Speaker 2>bring up. I'll tell you after. Don'tory about it. No

0:29:45.040 --> 0:29:52.160
<v Speaker 2>one cares about that. Okay, next one, do you like

0:29:52.240 --> 0:29:55.880
<v Speaker 2>it when I am? Without finishing her question, the hand

0:29:56.200 --> 0:29:59.200
<v Speaker 2>she had around his cock started stroking or her other

0:29:59.280 --> 0:30:02.920
<v Speaker 2>hand delicate, he circled the tip. His head jolted back

0:30:03.200 --> 0:30:05.760
<v Speaker 2>as he said through his moan. If you don't stop,

0:30:06.040 --> 0:30:08.920
<v Speaker 2>I'll come all over your hands right now. She looked

0:30:09.000 --> 0:30:12.000
<v Speaker 2>him in his dark brown eyes, and without breaking eye contact,

0:30:12.200 --> 0:30:16.080
<v Speaker 2>she leaned down and spat on his cock. His whole

0:30:16.080 --> 0:30:19.440
<v Speaker 2>body tensed as the stroking sped up. Knowing he couldn't

0:30:19.440 --> 0:30:21.680
<v Speaker 2>hold it in, he looked her in the eyes and

0:30:21.800 --> 0:30:25.720
<v Speaker 2>leant into her beautifully soft hands, covering every square inch

0:30:25.760 --> 0:30:29.720
<v Speaker 2>of them.

0:30:29.920 --> 0:30:36.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's difficult. See, I want to say that that

0:30:36.160 --> 0:30:39.600
<v Speaker 1>was from you, because I feel like you wouldn't. I

0:30:39.600 --> 0:30:41.360
<v Speaker 1>feel like you'd want to throw one of your own

0:30:41.400 --> 0:30:46.840
<v Speaker 1>in there somewhere. I also think that that's from a

0:30:46.960 --> 0:30:52.520
<v Speaker 1>romance novel because she said come all over my hand.

0:30:53.440 --> 0:30:57.440
<v Speaker 1>That's something that that's like, that's a pretty Things like

0:30:57.480 --> 0:31:01.040
<v Speaker 1>that are pretty common in smitted. So I'm gonna say

0:31:01.080 --> 0:31:03.480
<v Speaker 1>it's one smart noble gotcha.

0:31:07.200 --> 0:31:20.240
<v Speaker 4>Sign u NB is going to be a smart fantasy.

0:31:20.320 --> 0:31:28.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, I feel like I need to calm down after that,

0:31:29.760 --> 0:31:32.840
<v Speaker 2>because we're taking a very sharp left, very sharp left turn.

0:31:33.560 --> 0:31:38.080
<v Speaker 2>This is actually something that we didn't actually we didn't

0:31:38.120 --> 0:31:42.680
<v Speaker 2>know how to bring up properly, and we kind of

0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:45.760
<v Speaker 2>just book yeah, like we thought, and it's not like

0:31:45.920 --> 0:31:49.360
<v Speaker 2>head on, it's more of a topic. So the topic

0:31:49.720 --> 0:31:53.040
<v Speaker 2>at hand, we want to talk about binnscas women and

0:31:53.880 --> 0:31:59.160
<v Speaker 2>basically we we have spoken about it a little bit

0:31:59.200 --> 0:32:04.880
<v Speaker 2>between ourselves and the podcast and full transparency. Though it's

0:32:04.920 --> 0:32:10.960
<v Speaker 2>something that we have been scared to talk about, which

0:32:12.480 --> 0:32:16.640
<v Speaker 2>in hindsight, I would say comes from a pretty privileged

0:32:16.680 --> 0:32:20.400
<v Speaker 2>place of like, you know, to be scared about to

0:32:20.400 --> 0:32:22.800
<v Speaker 2>talk about the thing that you know our gender does

0:32:22.880 --> 0:32:26.600
<v Speaker 2>so badly, and that be the reason we don't want

0:32:26.600 --> 0:32:29.120
<v Speaker 2>to talk about it is because it's like confronting is

0:32:29.120 --> 0:32:33.240
<v Speaker 2>a pretty big thing. But then seeing you talk about

0:32:33.280 --> 0:32:35.720
<v Speaker 2>it quite openly, I would say it has been just

0:32:35.760 --> 0:32:42.520
<v Speaker 2>like an inspiration or just like almost like a gates

0:32:42.520 --> 0:32:46.920
<v Speaker 2>are open type of thing like and mission permission. Yeah,

0:32:46.960 --> 0:32:51.360
<v Speaker 2>we kind of just wanted to like ask, were you

0:32:52.160 --> 0:32:55.400
<v Speaker 2>like us at any point were you scared to talk

0:32:55.440 --> 0:32:57.480
<v Speaker 2>about it? And like how did you grow into being

0:32:57.560 --> 0:33:00.480
<v Speaker 2>so like, you know, you seem to be very articulate

0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:02.240
<v Speaker 2>in the subject.

0:33:03.000 --> 0:33:05.120
<v Speaker 1>Great question, And first of all, I don't think you

0:33:05.160 --> 0:33:07.800
<v Speaker 1>should be. I don't think you should ever feel guilty

0:33:07.920 --> 0:33:10.360
<v Speaker 1>over sort of staying quite about it, because that's how

0:33:10.360 --> 0:33:13.760
<v Speaker 1>we were conditioned, Like that's how we were raised in

0:33:13.880 --> 0:33:16.719
<v Speaker 1>cultures where that's what we were taught. So these are

0:33:16.840 --> 0:33:20.520
<v Speaker 1>like subconscious conditionings to stay silent about it because our

0:33:20.640 --> 0:33:24.680
<v Speaker 1>silence keeps us safe. So if we stay silent, we

0:33:24.720 --> 0:33:27.200
<v Speaker 1>stay safe. And as a human being, like you want

0:33:27.200 --> 0:33:29.800
<v Speaker 1>to stay safe and you want to survive and when

0:33:29.840 --> 0:33:34.000
<v Speaker 1>we live, and to speak about these things will get

0:33:34.080 --> 0:33:36.040
<v Speaker 1>you cast out of the group. And you're actually like

0:33:36.120 --> 0:33:39.040
<v Speaker 1>biologically wired to not want to do that. You want

0:33:39.040 --> 0:33:40.400
<v Speaker 1>to be a part of the group because that means

0:33:40.440 --> 0:33:43.600
<v Speaker 1>you survive. So I always, you know, don't feel I

0:33:43.640 --> 0:33:45.360
<v Speaker 1>don't feel bad about that because a lot of it's

0:33:45.400 --> 0:33:48.240
<v Speaker 1>not a lot of the time, it's not an active choice.

0:33:48.560 --> 0:33:50.920
<v Speaker 1>It's actually just like you, I need to survive. So

0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:53.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to say anything about this. But I

0:33:53.120 --> 0:33:55.280
<v Speaker 1>think once you actually know better, and once you have

0:33:55.360 --> 0:33:59.080
<v Speaker 1>that information, then it becomes a choice. So it's so,

0:33:59.200 --> 0:34:04.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, speaking about it now is fantastic, but this

0:34:04.080 --> 0:34:09.000
<v Speaker 1>is great. So violence is the language of the inarticulate.

0:34:09.880 --> 0:34:13.799
<v Speaker 1>So growing up as men, we don't get taught how

0:34:13.840 --> 0:34:17.719
<v Speaker 1>to understand our motions, how to express our emotions, how

0:34:17.760 --> 0:34:22.319
<v Speaker 1>to share our emotions. It's always suppress, don't share, keep

0:34:22.320 --> 0:34:24.480
<v Speaker 1>it inside. You need to be if you want to

0:34:24.480 --> 0:34:27.960
<v Speaker 1>be a man, and this people don't say this to you,

0:34:28.000 --> 0:34:29.480
<v Speaker 1>like people didn't go to you when you're a five

0:34:29.520 --> 0:34:31.080
<v Speaker 1>o kid. If you want to be a man, you

0:34:31.160 --> 0:34:34.160
<v Speaker 1>don't show your emotion Like this comes through all this

0:34:34.320 --> 0:34:38.120
<v Speaker 1>other conditioning where when you did show emotion someone said

0:34:38.160 --> 0:34:41.160
<v Speaker 1>you don't be a pussy or things like that, so

0:34:41.200 --> 0:34:43.040
<v Speaker 1>you don't actually like someone doesn't sit you down and

0:34:43.080 --> 0:34:45.840
<v Speaker 1>say you can't show emotion. You get all of this

0:34:45.960 --> 0:34:48.880
<v Speaker 1>sort of indirectly. And men don't cry exactly. Yeah, you know,

0:34:48.960 --> 0:34:52.840
<v Speaker 1>men don't tough enough, you know, stop stop being a pussy,

0:34:52.960 --> 0:34:55.839
<v Speaker 1>stop being gay, like, don't be a don't be a girl,

0:34:55.960 --> 0:34:59.880
<v Speaker 1>things like that. So all this what seems really harmless

0:35:00.120 --> 0:35:03.280
<v Speaker 1>the time is actually you internalize that and you go, Okay,

0:35:03.600 --> 0:35:07.080
<v Speaker 1>every time I do anything that's associated with this, I

0:35:07.120 --> 0:35:11.839
<v Speaker 1>feel shame. People shame me. So then you internalize that shame,

0:35:11.880 --> 0:35:14.560
<v Speaker 1>and then you start shaming yourself. So then you start

0:35:14.640 --> 0:35:17.600
<v Speaker 1>selling yourself, Like then you start telling yourself like, don't

0:35:17.640 --> 0:35:21.160
<v Speaker 1>be a girl, don't cry, don't be weak. You start

0:35:21.280 --> 0:35:26.759
<v Speaker 1>telling yourself that. Yeah, so external voices policed us, and

0:35:26.800 --> 0:35:30.680
<v Speaker 1>then our internal voice shaped us. And that's how that

0:35:30.760 --> 0:35:34.520
<v Speaker 1>and that's how conditioning works. And so we never ever

0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:38.680
<v Speaker 1>got the language or the tools or the ability to

0:35:38.800 --> 0:35:42.600
<v Speaker 1>express our emotions and then those emotions because we live

0:35:42.640 --> 0:35:52.040
<v Speaker 1>in cultures where aggression, violence are extremely accepted, and you know, aggression, violence, anger,

0:35:52.160 --> 0:35:54.920
<v Speaker 1>where those things are actually really accepted for men. So

0:35:54.960 --> 0:35:59.040
<v Speaker 1>we grew up knowing, okay, crying not accepted, anger accepted.

0:35:59.320 --> 0:36:01.319
<v Speaker 1>And then when we feel all of this shame, the

0:36:01.360 --> 0:36:04.120
<v Speaker 1>only way that we then know how to externalize that

0:36:04.320 --> 0:36:08.040
<v Speaker 1>is through anger, violence and aggression because it's so accepted

0:36:08.080 --> 0:36:10.080
<v Speaker 1>in our world because you won't get shamed if you're

0:36:10.080 --> 0:36:12.759
<v Speaker 1>an angry man. It's like, oh, that's just he's just

0:36:12.840 --> 0:36:15.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, that's just him. That's just what men. That's

0:36:15.280 --> 0:36:18.200
<v Speaker 1>just what men are. But whereas you if you cry,

0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:22.239
<v Speaker 1>if that, if that emotion expresses itself through tears, you're

0:36:22.280 --> 0:36:25.160
<v Speaker 1>a girl, get you feel shamed for that. So we

0:36:25.200 --> 0:36:29.040
<v Speaker 1>live in these cultures where it's extremely accepted to be violent,

0:36:29.080 --> 0:36:33.200
<v Speaker 1>to be aggressive, and because we can't articulate our emotions,

0:36:33.239 --> 0:36:36.440
<v Speaker 1>they always express themselves as violence. And you're not going

0:36:36.440 --> 0:36:40.279
<v Speaker 1>to be violence against another man because that could you know,

0:36:40.360 --> 0:36:43.080
<v Speaker 1>that man could kill you. So you're going to be

0:36:43.200 --> 0:36:45.720
<v Speaker 1>violent to the person that you know you can harm,

0:36:45.800 --> 0:36:49.960
<v Speaker 1>that you can take power from. Because men, really we

0:36:50.040 --> 0:36:52.800
<v Speaker 1>live in a world where where we're very patriarchal worlds

0:36:52.960 --> 0:36:56.120
<v Speaker 1>and we're conditioned to power. You know, we are really

0:36:56.200 --> 0:37:00.120
<v Speaker 1>driven to find power, and when we feel powerless, we

0:37:00.160 --> 0:37:02.880
<v Speaker 1>will take power from those who we know we can

0:37:02.880 --> 0:37:05.879
<v Speaker 1>get it from, which is women and children. So that's

0:37:05.960 --> 0:37:09.240
<v Speaker 1>and that's why, and you know, that's why these statistics

0:37:09.280 --> 0:37:11.799
<v Speaker 1>we see are so horrible and we talk about it

0:37:11.840 --> 0:37:18.000
<v Speaker 1>as well. Ninety two percent of violence and abuse against

0:37:18.040 --> 0:37:21.360
<v Speaker 1>women come from like male violence when ninety two percent

0:37:21.360 --> 0:37:23.479
<v Speaker 1>of it comes from a man that the woman knows,

0:37:23.480 --> 0:37:26.160
<v Speaker 1>either a partner or a family men, or someone in

0:37:26.200 --> 0:37:31.640
<v Speaker 1>their in their close circle. So you know, when men

0:37:31.719 --> 0:37:35.520
<v Speaker 1>talk about, you know, being like protectors, the person that

0:37:35.600 --> 0:37:38.120
<v Speaker 1>needs to be the person that your partner needs to

0:37:38.160 --> 0:37:39.960
<v Speaker 1>be protected from is you.

0:37:40.680 --> 0:37:43.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like statistically.

0:37:43.320 --> 0:37:47.279
<v Speaker 1>Ninety two percent. So it's not even happening. You know,

0:37:47.480 --> 0:37:51.879
<v Speaker 1>we're not talking about women getting you know, assaulted by

0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:55.000
<v Speaker 1>a random man in the street. We're talking about women

0:37:55.080 --> 0:38:01.960
<v Speaker 1>getting bashed at home and abused at home by brother, father, partner,

0:38:02.080 --> 0:38:06.160
<v Speaker 1>et cetera, someone that they know. Because we just we

0:38:06.239 --> 0:38:07.760
<v Speaker 1>live in as I said, we live in a society

0:38:07.800 --> 0:38:10.880
<v Speaker 1>where that is so accepted aggression violence and is so

0:38:10.960 --> 0:38:13.839
<v Speaker 1>accepted for men. And then when it expresses, when it

0:38:13.880 --> 0:38:17.560
<v Speaker 1>expresses itself, it expresses onto those closest to us.

0:38:18.760 --> 0:38:19.040
<v Speaker 2>Fuck.

0:38:19.320 --> 0:38:22.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that struggle that Jake spoke about in a sense

0:38:22.160 --> 0:38:25.399
<v Speaker 3>of when we had trouble bringing it up. I guess

0:38:25.440 --> 0:38:26.880
<v Speaker 3>our cop out, and I think a lot of men's

0:38:26.920 --> 0:38:28.920
<v Speaker 3>cop outs are yeah, but we don't do it.

0:38:29.719 --> 0:38:32.759
<v Speaker 2>And that's like the whole Like good men correct a

0:38:32.880 --> 0:38:34.040
<v Speaker 2>massive part of the problem.

0:38:34.160 --> 0:38:34.359
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

0:38:34.680 --> 0:38:37.600
<v Speaker 2>And then another thing, and that's where that's.

0:38:37.440 --> 0:38:41.239
<v Speaker 1>Where our silence comes in. Yeah, because our silence keeps

0:38:41.280 --> 0:38:43.600
<v Speaker 1>us safe. And it's very easy to say, oh, I

0:38:43.640 --> 0:38:46.000
<v Speaker 1>don't do that, and my mates wouldn't do that. Yeah,

0:38:46.320 --> 0:38:49.960
<v Speaker 1>but that's not the problem silence exactly right, exactly right, yeah,

0:38:50.320 --> 0:38:52.960
<v Speaker 1>like because your mate might not have done that yet,

0:38:53.719 --> 0:38:55.680
<v Speaker 1>but there's nothing to say, you know. And even for

0:38:55.800 --> 0:38:59.560
<v Speaker 1>me when I was going through addiction, the people that

0:38:59.719 --> 0:39:02.120
<v Speaker 1>I harm the most and this wasn't like physically, but

0:39:02.200 --> 0:39:04.960
<v Speaker 1>this was emotionally the people that ham ament with my

0:39:05.080 --> 0:39:07.839
<v Speaker 1>mum and my sister, because they were the ones who

0:39:07.840 --> 0:39:09.400
<v Speaker 1>loved me, they were trying to care for me, and

0:39:09.440 --> 0:39:14.600
<v Speaker 1>because I could only express myself angrily and violently like emotionally,

0:39:15.239 --> 0:39:16.919
<v Speaker 1>they were the ones who had who had to wear

0:39:17.000 --> 0:39:19.960
<v Speaker 1>all of that. The person that I loved more than

0:39:20.000 --> 0:39:22.520
<v Speaker 1>anyone in the world, my mother, is also the person

0:39:22.520 --> 0:39:26.040
<v Speaker 1>that I've caused the most harm. Yeah. Fuckah, sorry going

0:39:26.080 --> 0:39:26.360
<v Speaker 1>about this.

0:39:26.520 --> 0:39:31.080
<v Speaker 2>No, no, you're fine. Like recently, we so I saw

0:39:31.960 --> 0:39:34.480
<v Speaker 2>my girlfriend actually sent it to me and it was

0:39:34.480 --> 0:39:41.840
<v Speaker 2>a video saying that basically, like all men benefit from

0:39:42.200 --> 0:39:47.440
<v Speaker 2>violence against women. And it's like, you know that because

0:39:47.480 --> 0:39:49.440
<v Speaker 2>the violent men bring the standard down so much. It's

0:39:49.520 --> 0:39:51.719
<v Speaker 2>like if you've got someone at home that's been like

0:39:51.760 --> 0:39:54.040
<v Speaker 2>maybe a shitty boyfriend whatever, Like a lot of the

0:39:54.040 --> 0:39:55.799
<v Speaker 2>time they get the benefit of the doubt because it's like, well,

0:39:55.840 --> 0:39:58.400
<v Speaker 2>at least he's not violent, I understand. And when we

0:39:58.440 --> 0:40:01.239
<v Speaker 2>spoke about it, like we do this when we talk

0:40:01.239 --> 0:40:04.160
<v Speaker 2>about it together Oddie and myself like maybe I'll do

0:40:04.239 --> 0:40:06.400
<v Speaker 2>it when maybe I'm talking about it with my girlfriend.

0:40:06.960 --> 0:40:10.920
<v Speaker 2>So like in this particular conversation, it was something that

0:40:10.960 --> 0:40:12.600
<v Speaker 2>Oddie did and like he didn't do it in a

0:40:12.640 --> 0:40:14.040
<v Speaker 2>way to be like, oh, I don't want to talk

0:40:14.080 --> 0:40:18.440
<v Speaker 2>about this anymore, but like we almost so it's like

0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:23.040
<v Speaker 2>violent men bring make all men look good. And then

0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:25.160
<v Speaker 2>what we ended up talking about in that episode was

0:40:25.160 --> 0:40:28.080
<v Speaker 2>how just like men being pretty shit in general make

0:40:28.120 --> 0:40:30.239
<v Speaker 2>all men look good, and like we almost try and

0:40:30.320 --> 0:40:33.920
<v Speaker 2>change the subject without realizing it to being able to

0:40:33.920 --> 0:40:37.000
<v Speaker 2>talk to something that's more digestible for us to talk about,

0:40:37.080 --> 0:40:41.279
<v Speaker 2>just like the fact that you know, of rape and

0:40:41.320 --> 0:40:47.000
<v Speaker 2>murder is committed by men is something that's like confronting

0:40:47.040 --> 0:40:49.359
<v Speaker 2>for us for someone that would never do it, and

0:40:49.400 --> 0:40:52.120
<v Speaker 2>then we'll like, you know, or the fact again that

0:40:52.320 --> 0:40:55.279
<v Speaker 2>violent men make all men look good, we just say like,

0:40:55.320 --> 0:40:57.040
<v Speaker 2>oh yeah, like just shiit. Men in general make men

0:40:57.080 --> 0:40:58.840
<v Speaker 2>look good, and then that's easy to talk about. So

0:40:58.880 --> 0:40:59.920
<v Speaker 2>that's just like another thing.

0:41:00.160 --> 0:41:02.080
<v Speaker 3>One step down from the problem at hand.

0:41:02.160 --> 0:41:06.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like it's a conversation. Yeah, they shouldn't be connected.

0:41:06.760 --> 0:41:09.200
<v Speaker 2>So that's another like yeah, I would say, I guess

0:41:09.200 --> 0:41:11.360
<v Speaker 2>that's just like another maybe issue.

0:41:11.920 --> 0:41:15.319
<v Speaker 1>And this also comes from the fact that so patriarchy

0:41:15.400 --> 0:41:20.600
<v Speaker 1>teaches boys competing over connecting, winning over relating, and fighting

0:41:20.680 --> 0:41:25.200
<v Speaker 1>over cooperating. So we also when other men are being

0:41:25.320 --> 0:41:28.799
<v Speaker 1>really shit, there's a part of us through because we've

0:41:28.800 --> 0:41:31.080
<v Speaker 1>been conditioned by patriarchy, there's a part of us that goes, oh,

0:41:31.280 --> 0:41:34.480
<v Speaker 1>that's my win, Like I don't need to I don't

0:41:34.480 --> 0:41:37.560
<v Speaker 1>need to do anything, because if he becomes like a

0:41:37.600 --> 0:41:41.560
<v Speaker 1>good man, then that's someone who can beat me. That's

0:41:41.560 --> 0:41:44.080
<v Speaker 1>someone who can compete with me. So well, he's ship

0:41:44.160 --> 0:41:46.720
<v Speaker 1>and I'm better than him. When when I'm when I'm winning,

0:41:46.960 --> 0:41:49.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, the the competition, that's probably not the right

0:41:50.000 --> 0:41:52.680
<v Speaker 1>way to say it, but when he's a man, that

0:41:52.800 --> 0:41:56.560
<v Speaker 1>means I win. Yeah, I look I look good exactly right.

0:41:56.560 --> 0:41:59.200
<v Speaker 1>And that's another reason why we stay signed because you know,

0:41:59.520 --> 0:42:02.640
<v Speaker 1>if all if all these ship men are doing shit

0:42:02.719 --> 0:42:06.879
<v Speaker 1>things and then I'm good, then I'm beating them. And

0:42:06.920 --> 0:42:10.480
<v Speaker 1>that's and patriarchy teaches us to compete. That's why, Mayo,

0:42:10.800 --> 0:42:13.200
<v Speaker 1>and when we talk about and this is what going

0:42:13.200 --> 0:42:14.680
<v Speaker 1>a bit off topic when you talk about the male

0:42:14.760 --> 0:42:17.560
<v Speaker 1>loneliness epidemic, that is because we are conditioned from boys

0:42:17.920 --> 0:42:21.480
<v Speaker 1>to compete with each other. So we can't form a

0:42:21.640 --> 0:42:25.879
<v Speaker 1>close male friendship because you're my competition. So I need

0:42:25.920 --> 0:42:27.440
<v Speaker 1>to compete with you. I need to fight with you,

0:42:27.520 --> 0:42:31.440
<v Speaker 1>I need to beat you, and and and then we

0:42:31.520 --> 0:42:34.640
<v Speaker 1>try to be friends. There's all there's a ceiling to that.

0:42:35.120 --> 0:42:37.560
<v Speaker 1>If I'm competing with you, there's a ceiling to whatever

0:42:37.600 --> 0:42:39.640
<v Speaker 1>connection we can have. And I think we you know,

0:42:39.640 --> 0:42:41.879
<v Speaker 1>when we talk about the male lonly and epidemic, men

0:42:41.920 --> 0:42:45.880
<v Speaker 1>aren't lonely physically like men men where we live in

0:42:45.960 --> 0:42:50.080
<v Speaker 1>cities with millions of people, we're in proximity to each other.

0:42:50.440 --> 0:42:53.719
<v Speaker 1>We're lonely emotionally because we don't actually connect with each other,

0:42:54.040 --> 0:42:56.920
<v Speaker 1>which which draws it back to because we're always competing

0:42:56.960 --> 0:42:57.480
<v Speaker 1>with each other.

0:42:58.360 --> 0:43:00.799
<v Speaker 3>And what I was going to ask further down the track,

0:43:00.840 --> 0:43:03.680
<v Speaker 3>but because you brought it up when you started posting

0:43:03.719 --> 0:43:07.760
<v Speaker 3>online and Jake mentioned, like, you're a great male role model.

0:43:08.239 --> 0:43:12.600
<v Speaker 3>Did you lose your friends in any sense because they

0:43:12.640 --> 0:43:15.239
<v Speaker 3>felt threatened or saw you as competition or like the.

0:43:15.200 --> 0:43:17.200
<v Speaker 2>Fact that you were like maybe calling them out.

0:43:17.600 --> 0:43:20.759
<v Speaker 1>That is a really great question, actually, and yes, I did,

0:43:21.040 --> 0:43:24.200
<v Speaker 1>not not all my friends, but I did lose people.

0:43:26.080 --> 0:43:27.400
<v Speaker 2>And I think that's part of the problem.

0:43:27.440 --> 0:43:30.480
<v Speaker 3>And we're in a position where our sort of education

0:43:30.560 --> 0:43:32.920
<v Speaker 3>has been sped run. Our demo is nine percent women,

0:43:33.440 --> 0:43:35.320
<v Speaker 3>so we have a lot of women in our corners,

0:43:35.320 --> 0:43:38.360
<v Speaker 3>which we learn from and we're very grateful for. But

0:43:38.440 --> 0:43:40.719
<v Speaker 3>we wanted to ask too, because you're so open about it.

0:43:40.880 --> 0:43:43.560
<v Speaker 3>We've struggled to wrap our heads around of what each

0:43:43.640 --> 0:43:47.480
<v Speaker 3>individual man can actually do to like say, what they

0:43:47.520 --> 0:43:49.600
<v Speaker 3>can do to help the problem, rather than just being

0:43:49.680 --> 0:43:51.920
<v Speaker 3>silent because it doesn't affect me. Yeah, and then like

0:43:52.080 --> 0:43:56.720
<v Speaker 3>us even us talking about it is a great start, obviously,

0:43:56.800 --> 0:43:59.680
<v Speaker 3>right and acknowledging the fact that like we neither one

0:43:59.680 --> 0:44:01.520
<v Speaker 3>of us that have ever harmed a woman, But we're

0:44:01.520 --> 0:44:03.640
<v Speaker 3>also like, yeah, bus being someone's part of the problem,

0:44:03.719 --> 0:44:06.239
<v Speaker 3>Like that's one thing to acknowledge, but like, and then

0:44:06.320 --> 0:44:09.080
<v Speaker 3>there's also just there's other things obviously that need to

0:44:09.120 --> 0:44:09.560
<v Speaker 3>be done.

0:44:09.960 --> 0:44:14.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, really case, because we sort of know, Okay, this

0:44:14.560 --> 0:44:17.399
<v Speaker 1>is where men are and this is where we want

0:44:17.440 --> 0:44:19.400
<v Speaker 1>men to be, Like, we actually know what that looks like.

0:44:19.520 --> 0:44:23.799
<v Speaker 1>We you know, when we talk about being very integrated,

0:44:23.880 --> 0:44:28.040
<v Speaker 1>being very high emotional IQUS, being able to connect, being vulnerable,

0:44:28.080 --> 0:44:30.320
<v Speaker 1>being intimate, Like, we sort of know what the image

0:44:30.320 --> 0:44:31.920
<v Speaker 1>of where we want to get to is and we

0:44:32.000 --> 0:44:34.799
<v Speaker 1>know the space between where we are now and where

0:44:34.800 --> 0:44:37.120
<v Speaker 1>we want to get to? So how do we bridge

0:44:37.160 --> 0:44:38.920
<v Speaker 1>that gap? And that's what I think, that's what you're

0:44:38.960 --> 0:44:41.160
<v Speaker 1>asking very much. How do we actually what do we

0:44:41.200 --> 0:44:44.680
<v Speaker 1>implement to get there? And I always say it begins.

0:44:46.000 --> 0:44:49.120
<v Speaker 1>We can talk about this until the cows come home,

0:44:49.800 --> 0:44:51.640
<v Speaker 1>so it has to be put into action. And then

0:44:51.680 --> 0:44:53.400
<v Speaker 1>so how do you put that into action? And that

0:44:53.480 --> 0:44:56.239
<v Speaker 1>is issual, just like you two holding each other accountable

0:44:56.680 --> 0:45:00.840
<v Speaker 1>and then you hold your other mate accountable and you say,

0:45:01.040 --> 0:45:04.400
<v Speaker 1>this is the standard we accept and if you don't

0:45:04.480 --> 0:45:07.640
<v Speaker 1>meet that standard, you are not our friend. We like,

0:45:07.760 --> 0:45:10.759
<v Speaker 1>we will not associate ourselves with you. And then once

0:45:10.920 --> 0:45:13.480
<v Speaker 1>we get enough men, once you get you know, fifty

0:45:13.520 --> 0:45:15.319
<v Speaker 1>one percent of men, once you have the majority of

0:45:15.320 --> 0:45:18.759
<v Speaker 1>men doing that holding each other accountable, saying that this

0:45:18.880 --> 0:45:22.640
<v Speaker 1>is the standard that we will accept, otherwise you don't

0:45:22.680 --> 0:45:26.239
<v Speaker 1>get to be a part of this group. True, we

0:45:26.280 --> 0:45:26.600
<v Speaker 1>get there.

0:45:26.600 --> 0:45:28.960
<v Speaker 2>So do you think that men being cast out is

0:45:29.120 --> 0:45:32.320
<v Speaker 2>a fear of theirs? Nearly, because like that's one also

0:45:32.480 --> 0:45:35.440
<v Speaker 2>triggering us being too scared to talk about the thing.

0:45:35.440 --> 0:45:36.600
<v Speaker 1>One hundred percent.

0:45:36.760 --> 0:45:38.440
<v Speaker 2>And then the other thing though with that is like

0:45:38.960 --> 0:45:40.680
<v Speaker 2>not not to say you're wrong or anything, but like

0:45:41.080 --> 0:45:44.440
<v Speaker 2>it's like, so, let's just say one of our mates

0:45:45.040 --> 0:45:49.840
<v Speaker 2>is maybe talking about how that he got physical with

0:45:49.840 --> 0:45:51.880
<v Speaker 2>with his girlfriend and and he's trying to justify it,

0:45:51.920 --> 0:45:54.839
<v Speaker 2>and we're like, no, that's like sucked up.

0:45:54.960 --> 0:45:56.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, yeah, So it's.

0:45:55.960 --> 0:45:58.480
<v Speaker 2>Like calling him out is one thing, but then casting

0:45:58.560 --> 0:46:02.000
<v Speaker 2>him out is like not going to stop him from

0:46:02.040 --> 0:46:02.440
<v Speaker 2>doing that.

0:46:02.560 --> 0:46:03.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:46:03.239 --> 0:46:04.920
<v Speaker 2>So that's the one thing as well where it's like

0:46:05.000 --> 0:46:06.279
<v Speaker 2>you're almost just like, well, we're not going to be

0:46:06.320 --> 0:46:07.360
<v Speaker 2>a friend anymore.

0:46:07.719 --> 0:46:07.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:46:08.080 --> 0:46:10.120
<v Speaker 2>So it's like obviously you don't want to be friends

0:46:10.120 --> 0:46:12.640
<v Speaker 2>with someone like that, but then it's not going to

0:46:12.680 --> 0:46:13.480
<v Speaker 2>stop that guy.

0:46:13.560 --> 0:46:17.080
<v Speaker 1>I see what you're saying. The behavior needs to change,

0:46:17.600 --> 0:46:21.000
<v Speaker 1>and there is a yes, there is an absolute distinct there.

0:46:21.040 --> 0:46:23.279
<v Speaker 1>We're like, well, I would actually prefer to stay with this,

0:46:23.719 --> 0:46:25.719
<v Speaker 1>like to stay with this person to be able to

0:46:25.800 --> 0:46:28.480
<v Speaker 1>show them and be able to make sure that I

0:46:28.600 --> 0:46:31.359
<v Speaker 1>keep them on the right track. And that absolutely, yes,

0:46:31.440 --> 0:46:34.480
<v Speaker 1>you right, but that has to come with boundaries, yeah,

0:46:34.680 --> 0:46:39.879
<v Speaker 1>like that has to come with complicated complicated you absolutely,

0:46:40.440 --> 0:46:43.160
<v Speaker 1>But and that's where and I think that that's also

0:46:43.200 --> 0:46:46.160
<v Speaker 1>where we need to bridge the gap because you can

0:46:46.200 --> 0:46:50.200
<v Speaker 1>explain that to someone, but if they don't have the

0:46:50.239 --> 0:46:53.960
<v Speaker 1>capacity or the knowledge or the ability to understand that,

0:46:54.280 --> 0:46:56.239
<v Speaker 1>it kind of falls on deaf years. And this is

0:46:56.280 --> 0:46:58.040
<v Speaker 1>where I take it back to, you know, when we're boys,

0:46:58.440 --> 0:47:02.239
<v Speaker 1>teaching him about a emotional you know, emotional intelligence and

0:47:02.480 --> 0:47:06.720
<v Speaker 1>getting their emotional quoted up that so that when they're older,

0:47:06.760 --> 0:47:08.960
<v Speaker 1>they can actually understand the things that they're talking about.

0:47:08.960 --> 0:47:10.800
<v Speaker 1>Because I talked about this when I went through recovery.

0:47:11.400 --> 0:47:15.600
<v Speaker 1>I was seeing psychologists and psychologists were giving me tools,

0:47:15.960 --> 0:47:18.439
<v Speaker 1>but I was like, I don't know how to use

0:47:18.520 --> 0:47:22.560
<v Speaker 1>this tool. No one taught me how to use this tool. Yes,

0:47:22.640 --> 0:47:25.160
<v Speaker 1>I understand that if I feel this way, I should

0:47:25.239 --> 0:47:28.400
<v Speaker 1>do this, but I don't know how I feel. Yeah,

0:47:28.480 --> 0:47:31.279
<v Speaker 1>okay that you're like, okay, like when you feel like

0:47:31.320 --> 0:47:33.160
<v Speaker 1>this do this be like, well, I don't even I

0:47:33.160 --> 0:47:35.160
<v Speaker 1>can't do step one. So you're telling me how to

0:47:35.160 --> 0:47:37.680
<v Speaker 1>do step two, but I can't do step one. So

0:47:37.920 --> 0:47:41.799
<v Speaker 1>I think that you know, that's where an important part

0:47:41.840 --> 0:47:43.840
<v Speaker 1>of this picture too, where he's like, you need to

0:47:43.880 --> 0:47:47.759
<v Speaker 1>know if you're when you when your friend is like hypothetical,

0:47:47.920 --> 0:47:50.400
<v Speaker 1>if your friend is violent, and then you're trying to

0:47:50.440 --> 0:47:53.080
<v Speaker 1>explain to them like what's wrong about it or how

0:47:53.080 --> 0:47:55.480
<v Speaker 1>they can change, et cetera. I think you really need

0:47:55.520 --> 0:47:58.480
<v Speaker 1>to also understand does that person actually have the ability

0:47:59.080 --> 0:48:01.000
<v Speaker 1>to know what I'm saying to them to be able

0:48:01.040 --> 0:48:04.640
<v Speaker 1>to learn from what I'm saying to them, Because if

0:48:04.680 --> 0:48:07.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm telling them something that they don't comprehend.

0:48:07.360 --> 0:48:11.000
<v Speaker 2>It's just like you said, they just don't care.

0:48:11.239 --> 0:48:14.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, but that's where But also that

0:48:14.680 --> 0:48:16.600
<v Speaker 1>doesn't mean that like, that doesn't mean you should give up,

0:48:16.600 --> 0:48:19.279
<v Speaker 1>like because we like, yeah, this is we absolutely need

0:48:19.320 --> 0:48:23.320
<v Speaker 1>to be doing this consistently because that's how we learn

0:48:24.160 --> 0:48:29.319
<v Speaker 1>and working with them. If they're open to it, I think,

0:48:29.360 --> 0:48:31.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, because they've got to be open to it

0:48:31.719 --> 0:48:34.000
<v Speaker 1>as well. And I think that's the difference, because if

0:48:34.000 --> 0:48:36.319
<v Speaker 1>someone's not even open to it. I think that's where

0:48:36.320 --> 0:48:39.800
<v Speaker 1>you go see it later, because nothing I do will help.

0:48:40.400 --> 0:48:42.439
<v Speaker 1>But if someone is open to it, that's when you stand.

0:48:42.440 --> 0:48:44.160
<v Speaker 1>And that's where those boundaries come into play.

0:48:44.320 --> 0:48:46.680
<v Speaker 3>I think that's where we went wrong in our youth

0:48:46.680 --> 0:48:50.560
<v Speaker 3>as well, is rather than saying something, none of our

0:48:50.560 --> 0:48:52.920
<v Speaker 3>friends like did anything like that, but it was the

0:48:52.960 --> 0:48:56.600
<v Speaker 3>first step to maybe objectifying women or doing something like that,

0:48:56.680 --> 0:48:59.359
<v Speaker 3>and we knew that it was wrong. Yeah, but we

0:48:59.400 --> 0:49:01.520
<v Speaker 3>had that same male mindset. And I don't want to

0:49:01.520 --> 0:49:04.400
<v Speaker 3>put an excuse on it saying it's immaturity, but I

0:49:04.400 --> 0:49:06.200
<v Speaker 3>remember telling myself from my head or no, that's just

0:49:06.239 --> 0:49:07.520
<v Speaker 3>the way so and so is.

0:49:08.160 --> 0:49:10.759
<v Speaker 2>Rather than doing what we've learned now and.

0:49:10.719 --> 0:49:13.000
<v Speaker 3>We've The reason I asked that question is we've lost

0:49:13.000 --> 0:49:14.880
<v Speaker 3>all of our friends from this podcast because I think

0:49:14.880 --> 0:49:15.920
<v Speaker 3>it's confronted.

0:49:16.239 --> 0:49:18.400
<v Speaker 2>Of how they view women.

0:49:19.440 --> 0:49:21.759
<v Speaker 3>And I wish you we said at the start ten

0:49:21.840 --> 0:49:23.279
<v Speaker 3>year old self. Probably too early, but if I could

0:49:23.280 --> 0:49:25.560
<v Speaker 3>tell my younger self something, it's say what you're thinking,

0:49:25.680 --> 0:49:27.439
<v Speaker 3>because a lot of men do think what is right,

0:49:27.480 --> 0:49:29.800
<v Speaker 3>but they won't say anything. Yeah, and that's where it

0:49:29.800 --> 0:49:30.400
<v Speaker 3>should start.

0:49:30.719 --> 0:49:33.920
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely. Yeah, So you would have lost like all your mates.

0:49:34.560 --> 0:49:36.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's kind of like a weird one. Like we

0:49:37.600 --> 0:49:39.880
<v Speaker 2>basically just like our our old friend group, we had

0:49:39.920 --> 0:49:42.080
<v Speaker 2>like a very close, close friend group for a long time,

0:49:42.840 --> 0:49:44.960
<v Speaker 2>for like quite a few years, and then we started

0:49:44.960 --> 0:49:48.319
<v Speaker 2>the podcast and the friend group from like what we

0:49:48.400 --> 0:49:51.040
<v Speaker 2>know has you know, it's not just all still together

0:49:51.040 --> 0:49:52.960
<v Speaker 2>and we're the only ones. Not like I think everyone's

0:49:52.960 --> 0:49:55.120
<v Speaker 2>still friendly, but some of them there's like separate groups

0:49:55.160 --> 0:49:57.400
<v Speaker 2>now forming that are stronger and stuff like that. But

0:49:57.440 --> 0:49:59.680
<v Speaker 2>the thing that we're we're like, oh what the hell about?

0:49:59.760 --> 0:50:01.520
<v Speaker 2>Is like we will have a couple of friends that

0:50:01.560 --> 0:50:05.080
<v Speaker 2>we're still quite close with that will tell us like

0:50:05.360 --> 0:50:07.560
<v Speaker 2>just like stuff that's said about us, you know, behind

0:50:07.560 --> 0:50:09.759
<v Speaker 2>our backs, and we haven't spoken to them for maybe

0:50:09.800 --> 0:50:11.799
<v Speaker 2>a couple of years, and so we're just kind of.

0:50:11.800 --> 0:50:12.520
<v Speaker 1>Like, what the fuk?

0:50:12.640 --> 0:50:14.680
<v Speaker 2>Like, it's just so so.

0:50:14.880 --> 0:50:16.680
<v Speaker 3>I think it's that they feel threatened or.

0:50:18.640 --> 0:50:19.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and they would never admit that.

0:50:21.280 --> 0:50:23.600
<v Speaker 2>I would struggle to admit it.

0:50:23.640 --> 0:50:26.200
<v Speaker 1>They might not even know that, you know. And that's

0:50:26.200 --> 0:50:28.200
<v Speaker 1>and that's what I'm coming back to, is like the

0:50:28.600 --> 0:50:31.920
<v Speaker 1>reason that people act certain ways, they might not even

0:50:32.080 --> 0:50:35.360
<v Speaker 1>understand why they're acting that way, So they would feel

0:50:35.400 --> 0:50:37.440
<v Speaker 1>threatened by you so then they need to go, Okay,

0:50:37.440 --> 0:50:40.319
<v Speaker 1>well I need to shame, shame them to feel good,

0:50:40.360 --> 0:50:43.440
<v Speaker 1>to feel good about myself, and and and they wouldn't

0:50:43.440 --> 0:50:46.839
<v Speaker 1>even really understand that they're doing that, which once again,

0:50:46.880 --> 0:50:49.160
<v Speaker 1>which comes back to when we're children. But you so

0:50:49.520 --> 0:50:51.960
<v Speaker 1>when we're growing up, when you grow up in those cultures,

0:50:52.040 --> 0:50:55.480
<v Speaker 1>and believe me, like I say this wholeheartedly, I have

0:50:55.760 --> 0:50:59.240
<v Speaker 1>been the I have been the epitome of that culture.

0:50:59.280 --> 0:51:01.200
<v Speaker 1>Like I paid in I was in rugby league my

0:51:01.360 --> 0:51:04.080
<v Speaker 1>entire life, in Hypermassing Golgi, and I played in the NRL,

0:51:04.320 --> 0:51:09.560
<v Speaker 1>which is, you know, absolutely steeped in misogyny, homophobia, racism,

0:51:09.920 --> 0:51:14.880
<v Speaker 1>every hyper masculinity. Like it's the absolute tip of the

0:51:14.880 --> 0:51:16.920
<v Speaker 1>the top of the pyramid for that kind of stuff.

0:51:17.440 --> 0:51:19.759
<v Speaker 1>So I haven't always been I haven't. I wasn't like

0:51:19.760 --> 0:51:21.080
<v Speaker 1>this when I was, you know, two years old. I

0:51:21.080 --> 0:51:23.800
<v Speaker 1>haven't always had this sort of view. But once you understand,

0:51:23.880 --> 0:51:26.080
<v Speaker 1>and the way that I actually began to understand it too,

0:51:26.719 --> 0:51:29.640
<v Speaker 1>was because when I went through my addiction recovery, I

0:51:29.640 --> 0:51:31.600
<v Speaker 1>started I actually really had to look at all the

0:51:31.719 --> 0:51:36.800
<v Speaker 1>systems because I was like, why was I one hundreds

0:51:36.760 --> 0:51:39.640
<v Speaker 1>of thousand dollars a year playing in the NRAL, which

0:51:39.719 --> 0:51:44.000
<v Speaker 1>was like my dream in a privileged position that so

0:51:44.160 --> 0:51:47.000
<v Speaker 1>many other people would want to be in, and I

0:51:47.040 --> 0:51:50.080
<v Speaker 1>wanted to kill myself, so and I had to go

0:51:50.400 --> 0:51:55.319
<v Speaker 1>why was that? And then through that recovery process, which

0:51:55.360 --> 0:51:57.879
<v Speaker 1>was encompassed many many things, but a part of that

0:51:58.239 --> 0:52:02.160
<v Speaker 1>was actually what were the system that conditioned me into

0:52:02.280 --> 0:52:04.799
<v Speaker 1>that belief? And that's when I started to look at

0:52:04.840 --> 0:52:09.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, masculinity, patriarchy and how misogyny plays out. And

0:52:09.000 --> 0:52:12.640
<v Speaker 1>I think that what men don't understand is is that

0:52:12.840 --> 0:52:19.399
<v Speaker 1>misogyny externally internalizes, as internalizes itself within you. And then

0:52:19.400 --> 0:52:22.719
<v Speaker 1>so you have to reject everything inside of yourself that

0:52:22.920 --> 0:52:26.400
<v Speaker 1>is that you see as feminine or related to women.

0:52:26.880 --> 0:52:30.719
<v Speaker 1>So then you start carving away parts of yourself and

0:52:30.760 --> 0:52:33.560
<v Speaker 1>you're left with, you know, ten percent of what your

0:52:33.719 --> 0:52:36.920
<v Speaker 1>entire humanity is because anything that doesn't fit the narrative

0:52:36.960 --> 0:52:40.440
<v Speaker 1>that you've been told through masculinity in patriarchy, everything else

0:52:40.480 --> 0:52:43.160
<v Speaker 1>has to be excluded. And that's really and that's how

0:52:43.320 --> 0:52:46.520
<v Speaker 1>I sort of came That's how I ended up understanding

0:52:46.800 --> 0:52:48.799
<v Speaker 1>these sorts of things because I was like, why do

0:52:48.880 --> 0:52:51.800
<v Speaker 1>I hate myself? Is because there were so many parts

0:52:51.840 --> 0:52:54.960
<v Speaker 1>of myself that I'd had to exclude, and they were

0:52:55.000 --> 0:52:58.480
<v Speaker 1>parts in so much pain. The only way that they

0:52:58.560 --> 0:53:02.480
<v Speaker 1>could I could numb them was through addiction. Does that

0:53:02.480 --> 0:53:03.360
<v Speaker 1>make sense that? Actually?

0:53:04.080 --> 0:53:06.680
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for share that now? Yeah?

0:53:06.719 --> 0:53:09.000
<v Speaker 1>Wow, And that's why I think. That's what I really

0:53:09.000 --> 0:53:11.680
<v Speaker 1>want men to understand, is what we want to do

0:53:11.760 --> 0:53:14.879
<v Speaker 1>for women, you know, and what and the safe world

0:53:14.880 --> 0:53:19.359
<v Speaker 1>that we want to create for women is absolutely beneficial

0:53:19.400 --> 0:53:21.320
<v Speaker 1>for them, Yes, you know what I'm saying. But it

0:53:21.400 --> 0:53:22.640
<v Speaker 1>is so beneficial for men.

0:53:22.760 --> 0:53:23.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it is.

0:53:24.040 --> 0:53:27.200
<v Speaker 1>And that's the dumbest thing about this is it's almost

0:53:28.719 --> 0:53:30.600
<v Speaker 1>like it makes me sad in a way that men

0:53:30.600 --> 0:53:33.600
<v Speaker 1>would have to see the benefits for themselves to want

0:53:33.640 --> 0:53:37.000
<v Speaker 1>to do it. But in a sense like that's how

0:53:37.000 --> 0:53:40.360
<v Speaker 1>you like, if men can see the benefit for themselves,

0:53:40.560 --> 0:53:43.719
<v Speaker 1>it will actually mobilize them into doing it. Because while

0:53:43.760 --> 0:53:45.839
<v Speaker 1>it's sort of as you know, we stay science like, ah,

0:53:45.880 --> 0:53:48.279
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't affect me. It's not my issue. You know,

0:53:48.560 --> 0:53:50.799
<v Speaker 1>it's not not happening in my house, so what do

0:53:50.880 --> 0:53:52.560
<v Speaker 1>I care? Sort of thing. But once I understand it

0:53:52.560 --> 0:53:55.839
<v Speaker 1>actually helps them, that's when you will start to see

0:53:55.960 --> 0:53:59.120
<v Speaker 1>real change. But and this takes me back to my

0:53:59.160 --> 0:54:01.200
<v Speaker 1>other point, they need to have the tools to be

0:54:01.200 --> 0:54:05.120
<v Speaker 1>able to understand that. Yeah, because we consider and tell

0:54:05.160 --> 0:54:07.320
<v Speaker 1>men that, but unless they have the tools and the

0:54:07.400 --> 0:54:11.439
<v Speaker 1>ability to understand that and learn that, then it really

0:54:11.440 --> 0:54:13.440
<v Speaker 1>achieved nothing as its fools on deaf years.

0:54:13.880 --> 0:54:17.359
<v Speaker 3>What was the defining factor when, because I know there's

0:54:17.360 --> 0:54:20.400
<v Speaker 3>a lot of tangible skills getting over any addiction that

0:54:20.440 --> 0:54:24.200
<v Speaker 3>you can take into life, and I know I've heard

0:54:24.239 --> 0:54:27.520
<v Speaker 3>your story before and you've gone through so much. What

0:54:27.640 --> 0:54:29.719
<v Speaker 3>was the defining factor where there was a switch in

0:54:29.760 --> 0:54:33.960
<v Speaker 3>your brain. Not comparing it to advance against women, but

0:54:34.080 --> 0:54:37.279
<v Speaker 3>you realize that I need to make a change, And

0:54:37.320 --> 0:54:40.399
<v Speaker 3>how can that be replicated to other men in any

0:54:40.400 --> 0:54:42.279
<v Speaker 3>sort of aspect of any issue within the world.

0:54:42.440 --> 0:54:48.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, great question. And this is so because I tried

0:54:48.800 --> 0:54:52.000
<v Speaker 1>to I tried to kill myself, so I had a

0:54:52.040 --> 0:54:54.080
<v Speaker 1>suicide of dam which is which is public knowledge I

0:54:54.080 --> 0:54:56.839
<v Speaker 1>talk about. But we also need to understand and this

0:54:56.880 --> 0:54:59.040
<v Speaker 1>is once again exactly what I was just talking about before.

0:55:00.120 --> 0:55:04.319
<v Speaker 1>So the way that we condition boys always shows up,

0:55:04.360 --> 0:55:08.319
<v Speaker 1>as you know, it expresses itself as violence. That's not

0:55:08.400 --> 0:55:12.880
<v Speaker 1>always violence against women, that's violence men, that violence against

0:55:13.000 --> 0:55:15.120
<v Speaker 1>other men too, because men, you know, a lot of

0:55:15.160 --> 0:55:19.400
<v Speaker 1>like male or male male and male murdering happens. But

0:55:19.440 --> 0:55:22.040
<v Speaker 1>also if there's five people in a morgue who are

0:55:22.080 --> 0:55:25.640
<v Speaker 1>dead from suicide, four of those are men. That violence

0:55:25.640 --> 0:55:29.280
<v Speaker 1>doesn't always manifest itself against women. That violence manifests itself

0:55:29.320 --> 0:55:32.359
<v Speaker 1>against ourselves a lot of the time too. And that's

0:55:32.400 --> 0:55:36.120
<v Speaker 1>why you know, when I say men need to understand

0:55:36.160 --> 0:55:39.279
<v Speaker 1>that this thing like fixing violence against women also will

0:55:39.280 --> 0:55:43.279
<v Speaker 1>fix violence against themselves. And a lot of like our

0:55:43.320 --> 0:55:44.200
<v Speaker 1>suicide and stuff.

0:55:44.000 --> 0:55:45.000
<v Speaker 2>I never even thought of it like that.

0:55:45.080 --> 0:55:47.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, of course, yeah, and you know, and that's for me.

0:55:47.600 --> 0:55:49.520
<v Speaker 1>So I got to that point where I tried to

0:55:49.520 --> 0:55:51.520
<v Speaker 1>commit suiciic goes my life was and this is once

0:55:51.560 --> 0:55:54.439
<v Speaker 1>again was I was living my dream and I tried

0:55:54.480 --> 0:55:57.080
<v Speaker 1>to take my own life. So that's when I was like,

0:55:57.320 --> 0:56:02.120
<v Speaker 1>there is something really terribly wrong here because that should

0:56:02.320 --> 0:56:05.560
<v Speaker 1>not happen. You shouldn't be living your dream and want

0:56:05.600 --> 0:56:08.400
<v Speaker 1>to kill yourself. And so it was at the end

0:56:08.400 --> 0:56:11.960
<v Speaker 1>of your questions about what you replicate it, How I

0:56:12.040 --> 0:56:14.839
<v Speaker 1>replicate it, Yeah, really difficult because it.

0:56:14.760 --> 0:56:16.400
<v Speaker 2>Means it's an individual experience.

0:56:16.840 --> 0:56:19.160
<v Speaker 1>It is, and I get asked this question a lot,

0:56:19.320 --> 0:56:22.920
<v Speaker 1>and it's really difficult. I think everyone has their own journey,

0:56:23.640 --> 0:56:25.880
<v Speaker 1>and I would love to see I would love to

0:56:25.880 --> 0:56:27.839
<v Speaker 1>see culture, as I said, culture change for boys who

0:56:27.880 --> 0:56:31.359
<v Speaker 1>are three, four, five years old, and it really begin there,

0:56:31.400 --> 0:56:33.319
<v Speaker 1>so no one, so no one actually has to even

0:56:33.360 --> 0:56:36.080
<v Speaker 1>get to the point that I did before we start changing.

0:56:36.360 --> 0:56:38.480
<v Speaker 1>We shouldn't. We shouldn't be trying to change men when

0:56:38.480 --> 0:56:42.320
<v Speaker 1>they're even eighteen, nineteen twenty. This should start when boys

0:56:42.360 --> 0:56:44.520
<v Speaker 1>are literally two three.

0:56:44.320 --> 0:56:46.600
<v Speaker 2>Exactly when they can as soon as yeah.

0:56:46.680 --> 0:56:50.719
<v Speaker 1>This assues, they're coherent of the world. This should start.

0:56:51.600 --> 0:56:53.799
<v Speaker 1>But the way that I would say to other men

0:56:55.080 --> 0:57:04.600
<v Speaker 1>is and and it's difficult because this is the way

0:57:04.600 --> 0:57:08.880
<v Speaker 1>that I understand it too. But there is a level

0:57:09.000 --> 0:57:12.360
<v Speaker 1>of pain, a level of discomfort, a level of discontentment

0:57:12.760 --> 0:57:15.279
<v Speaker 1>that you feel, and I would say that like that's

0:57:15.320 --> 0:57:18.360
<v Speaker 1>for every man, because it's just the way that we exist,

0:57:19.400 --> 0:57:23.120
<v Speaker 1>and you need to know that that discomfort does not

0:57:23.320 --> 0:57:26.480
<v Speaker 1>need to be there at whatever level that it's at.

0:57:27.360 --> 0:57:32.760
<v Speaker 1>And you can find really a really beautiful, joyful life

0:57:33.280 --> 0:57:36.320
<v Speaker 1>in whatever you're doing if you're willing to step onto

0:57:36.360 --> 0:57:39.840
<v Speaker 1>the other side of what keeps you safe, like our signs,

0:57:40.160 --> 0:57:42.880
<v Speaker 1>because we actually because we benefit from patriarchal side. So

0:57:42.960 --> 0:57:45.120
<v Speaker 1>men benefit from like, we get a lot of benefits

0:57:45.120 --> 0:57:47.240
<v Speaker 1>from it, and if we're willing to give up our

0:57:47.320 --> 0:57:50.360
<v Speaker 1>power and give up our benefits, we'll actually, like we'll

0:57:50.400 --> 0:57:53.040
<v Speaker 1>still have a lot of benefits on the other side

0:57:53.040 --> 0:57:55.400
<v Speaker 1>of it. But if you're willing to give up the

0:57:55.520 --> 0:57:58.920
<v Speaker 1>things that benefit you but are really actually like hindering

0:57:58.960 --> 0:58:01.760
<v Speaker 1>you on the other side, that you want a really joyful,

0:58:01.760 --> 0:58:04.880
<v Speaker 1>beautiful life, That's that's the way I understand. I don't

0:58:04.880 --> 0:58:07.760
<v Speaker 1>know whether that's really applicable to everybody, but yeah.

0:58:07.720 --> 0:58:10.440
<v Speaker 2>No, I see what you mean, and you almost like

0:58:11.160 --> 0:58:15.200
<v Speaker 2>you went through a much more extreme version version of

0:58:15.320 --> 0:58:17.880
<v Speaker 2>getting to that point, correct, And like I would even

0:58:17.920 --> 0:58:20.280
<v Speaker 2>say so, like for myself, obviously I can't speak for Audie.

0:58:21.000 --> 0:58:24.840
<v Speaker 2>For myself, I would say, like I I don't think

0:58:24.840 --> 0:58:26.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm not like afraid to admit that. I would say,

0:58:26.720 --> 0:58:29.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm not even at your point if that, I don't

0:58:29.400 --> 0:58:32.360
<v Speaker 2>know if that makes much sense, But like I only,

0:58:32.720 --> 0:58:36.360
<v Speaker 2>it's not a race, yeah, exactly, like it's it's the

0:58:36.360 --> 0:58:42.880
<v Speaker 2>only My girlfriend is the single and sole reason that

0:58:43.720 --> 0:58:48.160
<v Speaker 2>I even have any knowledge on violence scains women, and

0:58:48.600 --> 0:58:53.080
<v Speaker 2>even like she is the sole reason, and like she's

0:58:53.120 --> 0:58:56.360
<v Speaker 2>like my favorite person on the planet. She's been she's

0:58:56.400 --> 0:59:00.520
<v Speaker 2>had an experience with you know, like a violence experience

0:59:00.640 --> 0:59:04.200
<v Speaker 2>with men, and she is the person that has like

0:59:04.600 --> 0:59:08.560
<v Speaker 2>actually she's like called me out and been like, you know,

0:59:08.600 --> 0:59:11.760
<v Speaker 2>you guys have a platform, you have a big platform,

0:59:12.080 --> 0:59:15.200
<v Speaker 2>and you are a good man, but you also are

0:59:15.280 --> 0:59:17.439
<v Speaker 2>part of the problem. Like she's not afraid to say

0:59:17.480 --> 0:59:19.400
<v Speaker 2>that to me, and it just like the very first

0:59:19.400 --> 0:59:22.320
<v Speaker 2>time she ever said it, I remember like it almost

0:59:22.320 --> 0:59:24.800
<v Speaker 2>felt like I was like the smallest person ever. I

0:59:25.200 --> 0:59:27.080
<v Speaker 2>like part of me. My first instinct was to be

0:59:27.120 --> 0:59:29.600
<v Speaker 2>like yeah, but like I don't do that. My first

0:59:29.600 --> 0:59:34.280
<v Speaker 2>instinct was to do yes. But like she just is very,

0:59:34.520 --> 0:59:38.919
<v Speaker 2>very articulate in this area, and she is the only

0:59:38.960 --> 0:59:43.040
<v Speaker 2>reason that I understand that quote unquote good men are

0:59:43.080 --> 0:59:45.320
<v Speaker 2>a massive part of the problem. And so it's like

0:59:45.520 --> 0:59:48.320
<v Speaker 2>my version of beginning there was my girlfriend and like

0:59:48.440 --> 0:59:52.760
<v Speaker 2>being obviously open to taking the criticism and listening to

0:59:52.800 --> 0:59:54.760
<v Speaker 2>her about her experience, and then also the knowlogy has

0:59:54.800 --> 0:59:57.080
<v Speaker 2>been then your experience was you know, you went through

0:59:57.120 --> 0:59:59.440
<v Speaker 2>a lot of things and they got there probably not

0:59:59.480 --> 1:00:01.600
<v Speaker 2>on your own, but like you got there in your

1:00:01.600 --> 1:00:03.720
<v Speaker 2>own way. Yeah, everyone will get there in their own way.

1:00:03.800 --> 1:00:06.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah it is, and yeah, you are right, and it

1:00:06.440 --> 1:00:08.600
<v Speaker 1>is a difficult thing to do because it's sort of

1:00:08.680 --> 1:00:11.400
<v Speaker 1>like my advice is not going to work for everybody,

1:00:11.760 --> 1:00:13.720
<v Speaker 1>and my journey is not everybody else's. But I do

1:00:13.840 --> 1:00:16.720
<v Speaker 1>understand what you're saying. I always say my biggest thing

1:00:16.840 --> 1:00:19.120
<v Speaker 1>is doing in a child work. I always say what

1:00:19.160 --> 1:00:21.720
<v Speaker 1>people like, like, what's the best thing that changed? I say,

1:00:21.720 --> 1:00:24.640
<v Speaker 1>in a childwork? Yeah, But you can't go to someone

1:00:25.800 --> 1:00:29.000
<v Speaker 1>at step one and say starting a child work. You know.

1:00:29.320 --> 1:00:31.400
<v Speaker 1>That's yeah, because if someone had the same with me,

1:00:31.840 --> 1:00:34.080
<v Speaker 1>if someone had said that to me back in twenty

1:00:34.160 --> 1:00:36.720
<v Speaker 1>twenty when I very first started going to therapy, like

1:00:36.800 --> 1:00:38.360
<v Speaker 1>we're going to do in a child walk about what

1:00:38.400 --> 1:00:40.840
<v Speaker 1>are you talking about? Because I said, I couldn't even

1:00:41.040 --> 1:00:43.840
<v Speaker 1>I couldn't even describe my feelings. I couldn't even name

1:00:43.880 --> 1:00:46.840
<v Speaker 1>what I was feeling then, let alone like doing a

1:00:46.920 --> 1:00:50.320
<v Speaker 1>child work. Yeah. So that's where and that's a big

1:00:50.400 --> 1:00:53.800
<v Speaker 1>that bridge that we need to gap, is that the

1:00:53.880 --> 1:00:58.439
<v Speaker 1>gap that we need a bridge so that we need

1:00:58.480 --> 1:01:03.320
<v Speaker 1>boys to be able to have the foundation that you

1:01:03.320 --> 1:01:05.680
<v Speaker 1>can build upon, because at the moment we're trying to

1:01:05.680 --> 1:01:08.600
<v Speaker 1>build stuff upon men who don't even have the foundation.

1:01:08.840 --> 1:01:13.760
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, So it's like the every man. Every man's

1:01:13.760 --> 1:01:16.000
<v Speaker 2>like a skyscraper without a foundation, and they're about the

1:01:16.080 --> 1:01:19.000
<v Speaker 2>crumble type exactly, and it's crumbling, you know.

1:01:19.160 --> 1:01:20.840
<v Speaker 1>And now I think that that's and I also think

1:01:20.880 --> 1:01:22.520
<v Speaker 1>that that's why a lot of that messaging and a

1:01:22.520 --> 1:01:24.360
<v Speaker 1>lot of the a lot of what we try and

1:01:24.480 --> 1:01:28.000
<v Speaker 1>say two men gets lost again because even my messaging

1:01:28.040 --> 1:01:31.080
<v Speaker 1>and stuff, it's sort of you know, second or third floor.

1:01:32.680 --> 1:01:35.400
<v Speaker 1>A lot of the men don't have the foundation that

1:01:35.640 --> 1:01:39.360
<v Speaker 1>to understand that or too yeah, or like.

1:01:39.360 --> 1:01:42.920
<v Speaker 3>To apply that's a generational answer.

1:01:43.120 --> 1:01:44.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it starts about kids, their.

1:01:44.720 --> 1:01:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Kids, their kids.

1:01:46.960 --> 1:01:49.200
<v Speaker 2>Another thing, Yeah, you kind of like said it in

1:01:49.200 --> 1:01:51.160
<v Speaker 2>a roundabout way there. But another thing on this the

1:01:51.200 --> 1:01:53.640
<v Speaker 2>podcast I listened to that you were on, you said, like,

1:01:55.400 --> 1:01:58.520
<v Speaker 2>growth isn't about adding things, it's about taking things away.

1:01:58.960 --> 1:02:01.080
<v Speaker 2>So it's like if you can grad around that as well,

1:02:01.200 --> 1:02:05.840
<v Speaker 2>then that would be obviously a massive helping factor.

1:02:05.680 --> 1:02:10.000
<v Speaker 1>One hunder And that's how like growth. It's one of

1:02:10.080 --> 1:02:13.000
<v Speaker 1>my favorite things. Growth is not about adding things on,

1:02:13.320 --> 1:02:16.440
<v Speaker 1>it's about taking things off. And that's all the conditioning,

1:02:16.520 --> 1:02:19.439
<v Speaker 1>all the messaging, all our beliefs, everything that we were

1:02:19.480 --> 1:02:24.160
<v Speaker 1>instilled into us growing up, or the all shame taking

1:02:24.200 --> 1:02:28.440
<v Speaker 1>that all off because who you are is has always

1:02:28.480 --> 1:02:30.880
<v Speaker 1>been there from the very day you were born, has

1:02:31.040 --> 1:02:34.200
<v Speaker 1>always been there inside of you, and then that person

1:02:34.520 --> 1:02:38.760
<v Speaker 1>just got slowly suffocated by what the world told you

1:02:38.840 --> 1:02:41.560
<v Speaker 1>to be or what you know ever, everything that just

1:02:41.600 --> 1:02:44.160
<v Speaker 1>got put on top of that. So taking those things off,

1:02:44.480 --> 1:02:47.320
<v Speaker 1>because there's a beautiful man and a beautiful boy that

1:02:47.600 --> 1:02:48.800
<v Speaker 1>has always been there.

1:02:55.840 --> 1:02:57.919
<v Speaker 2>I have an announcement to make.

1:02:58.200 --> 1:02:58.800
<v Speaker 1>What is it?

1:02:59.400 --> 1:03:04.400
<v Speaker 2>I am officially pause for silence, dramatic effect.

1:03:06.280 --> 1:03:09.600
<v Speaker 3>A Marcher, Babe, Man, I am so glad you said that,

1:03:09.760 --> 1:03:11.800
<v Speaker 3>because I am too.

1:03:12.440 --> 1:03:13.880
<v Speaker 2>I absolutely love Marcher.

1:03:14.000 --> 1:03:14.840
<v Speaker 1>It's like a reward.

1:03:16.360 --> 1:03:19.640
<v Speaker 2>Couldn't agree more, my friend could not agree more. Throughout

1:03:19.640 --> 1:03:22.479
<v Speaker 2>the day, I do little tasks and I'm like.

1:03:23.240 --> 1:03:26.760
<v Speaker 3>You know what, I deserve a Marcher same and I

1:03:26.800 --> 1:03:29.400
<v Speaker 3>go to at the moment, Jake, are these perfect head

1:03:29.600 --> 1:03:31.760
<v Speaker 3>vanilla march to late cans?

1:03:32.280 --> 1:03:32.960
<v Speaker 2>Cans?

1:03:33.400 --> 1:03:35.880
<v Speaker 3>Not only do they taste amazing, but it's also a

1:03:35.880 --> 1:03:37.840
<v Speaker 3>different source of caffeine to coffee.

1:03:37.960 --> 1:03:41.520
<v Speaker 2>Mate, That's true, and they're so handy, like it's just

1:03:42.200 --> 1:03:46.160
<v Speaker 2>a cafe quality Marcher in a can in your.

1:03:46.040 --> 1:03:50.120
<v Speaker 3>Head, Mate, I am obsessed, and I know the baddies listening.

1:03:50.160 --> 1:03:51.840
<v Speaker 3>I're gonna be looking for a sign to get a

1:03:51.880 --> 1:03:52.520
<v Speaker 3>marcher today.

1:03:53.320 --> 1:03:57.160
<v Speaker 2>Here it is so hey, you've heard it here First,

1:03:57.560 --> 1:03:59.560
<v Speaker 2>don't walk, but run to.

1:03:59.680 --> 1:04:01.960
<v Speaker 3>Cold all right, it's time for one of you to

1:04:02.200 --> 1:04:03.440
<v Speaker 3>sign off the episode.

1:04:03.480 --> 1:04:04.920
<v Speaker 2>You know what to do by now. There'll be a

1:04:04.960 --> 1:04:07.920
<v Speaker 2>link in the description and hopefully you get.

1:04:07.720 --> 1:04:14.280
<v Speaker 3>Called by us Jake today, who are going to call Katie?

1:04:15.120 --> 1:04:19.080
<v Speaker 2>Hello? Hello? Is this Katie? Yes, Katie's Jake and.

1:04:24.120 --> 1:04:26.680
<v Speaker 6>No freaking works. Oh my god, I just tell you

1:04:27.280 --> 1:04:29.960
<v Speaker 6>I only just set up my Australia number because I

1:04:30.040 --> 1:04:32.000
<v Speaker 6>just moved to Australia because you guys give me some

1:04:32.120 --> 1:04:34.920
<v Speaker 6>advice and I decided to take the jobs and move

1:04:34.960 --> 1:04:36.080
<v Speaker 6>to Australia. Now I'm here.

1:04:36.480 --> 1:04:37.960
<v Speaker 2>What we told you to do it?

1:04:38.720 --> 1:04:38.919
<v Speaker 1>Yes?

1:04:39.320 --> 1:04:41.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god? Would you? Did you send a dilemma

1:04:41.280 --> 1:04:41.760
<v Speaker 2>or something?

1:04:42.040 --> 1:04:47.160
<v Speaker 6>I sent a dilemma on Patreon and I my university

1:04:47.240 --> 1:04:48.520
<v Speaker 6>degree and now I'm in Australia.

1:04:49.360 --> 1:04:55.200
<v Speaker 2>Katie. Wait, also, I really hope you enjoy it, Katie, Katie, Katie,

1:04:55.400 --> 1:04:57.360
<v Speaker 2>do you have you heard do you know someone named

1:04:57.400 --> 1:04:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Luke Bateman?

1:04:59.280 --> 1:05:01.280
<v Speaker 4>I do not Luke.

1:05:01.760 --> 1:05:03.520
<v Speaker 2>So we have a guest named Luke on you would

1:05:03.560 --> 1:05:07.080
<v Speaker 2>be you will not regret going and finding his Instagram

1:05:07.120 --> 1:05:10.480
<v Speaker 2>at called Luke Bateman and seeing his content. But Luke

1:05:10.520 --> 1:05:11.760
<v Speaker 2>has a question for you today.

1:05:12.120 --> 1:05:12.360
<v Speaker 1>Hello.

1:05:12.360 --> 1:05:13.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Hello, okay, hello.

1:05:14.000 --> 1:05:16.040
<v Speaker 1>I would like to see if you want to some

1:05:16.200 --> 1:05:18.560
<v Speaker 1>one off for us with a riddle or a question

1:05:18.720 --> 1:05:19.320
<v Speaker 1>or anything.

1:05:19.400 --> 1:05:22.440
<v Speaker 6>Yes, yes, oh yes, I'll find the episode of Oh

1:05:22.480 --> 1:05:24.240
<v Speaker 6>my gosh. I just really put my number in a

1:05:24.240 --> 1:05:25.640
<v Speaker 6>few days ago. I was going to write a quote,

1:05:25.640 --> 1:05:26.680
<v Speaker 6>but I didn't get one in time.

1:05:27.800 --> 1:05:31.240
<v Speaker 2>Any life models you live by, I just.

1:05:31.240 --> 1:05:35.120
<v Speaker 6>Say, like, honestly, it's never too late for anything. I think,

1:05:35.400 --> 1:05:38.280
<v Speaker 6>just go with what you think you want to do

1:05:38.320 --> 1:05:41.360
<v Speaker 6>in the moment, because there's always time for you to

1:05:41.440 --> 1:05:44.240
<v Speaker 6>go back and pick up maybe what you didn't want

1:05:44.240 --> 1:05:46.360
<v Speaker 6>to do in the moment when you decided to drop it.

1:05:46.760 --> 1:05:49.040
<v Speaker 2>That's great, that's really good.

1:05:49.160 --> 1:05:49.920
<v Speaker 1>It's perfect.

1:05:50.720 --> 1:05:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Katie. Thank you so much. Thank you for getting an

1:05:52.640 --> 1:05:53.440
<v Speaker 2>Australian number.

1:05:53.960 --> 1:05:58.640
<v Speaker 3>And you guys have the best journey every update us.

1:06:00.440 --> 1:06:06.040
<v Speaker 2>Thank you. Oh that's crazy. Wait, so she's sending in

1:06:06.040 --> 1:06:08.640
<v Speaker 2>a dilemma and if it's the exact one I remember.

1:06:08.800 --> 1:06:10.240
<v Speaker 2>So she Yeah, she had a unied degree and she

1:06:10.360 --> 1:06:11.760
<v Speaker 2>was like, guys, I don't know what to do. I

1:06:11.800 --> 1:06:13.320
<v Speaker 2>really want to go to Australia. I also don't know

1:06:13.320 --> 1:06:14.920
<v Speaker 2>if I want to finish my un degree. And we're

1:06:15.000 --> 1:06:18.000
<v Speaker 2>kind of like, fuck it, do you want to go

1:06:18.040 --> 1:06:18.520
<v Speaker 2>to Australia?

1:06:18.560 --> 1:06:20.880
<v Speaker 1>And she's done it.

1:06:20.880 --> 1:06:27.160
<v Speaker 2>It is two o'clock. Yeah, yeah, well that's good. We're done.

1:06:27.200 --> 1:06:29.360
<v Speaker 2>We love your stay bad Thanks Luke.

1:06:31.000 --> 1:06:31.440
<v Speaker 1>Recording.

1:06:33.560 --> 1:06:36.840
<v Speaker 2>Thanks, that's good.

1:06:36.920 --> 1:06:39.360
<v Speaker 1>Thanks having me on boys. This is a really good chat.

1:06:39.600 --> 1:06:44.000
<v Speaker 1>Really yeah, I like it. Yeah, there's some mad chat

1:06:44.120 --> 1:06:45.400
<v Speaker 1>for real. I want to come back.

1:06:46.440 --> 1:06:47.480
<v Speaker 2>You're only an hour away.

1:06:47.680 --> 1:06:49.640
<v Speaker 1>Whatever you want.

1:07:00.520 --> 1:07:02.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh bad, He's gonna say, if you're still here, you

1:07:02.800 --> 1:07:05.040
<v Speaker 2>are a real one, a real one. We wanted to

1:07:05.120 --> 1:07:08.680
<v Speaker 2>chime in here because in between segments, it happens all

1:07:08.720 --> 1:07:10.600
<v Speaker 2>the time between Audie and myself when we record on

1:07:10.640 --> 1:07:13.840
<v Speaker 2>our own, we'll always maybe like know that the segment's over,

1:07:13.960 --> 1:07:15.680
<v Speaker 2>have a little conversation that just gets cut out of

1:07:15.680 --> 1:07:19.280
<v Speaker 2>the episode. It happened with Luke Bateman, and usually it's

1:07:19.320 --> 1:07:21.400
<v Speaker 2>Oddie and I are just talking some shit that means nothing,

1:07:21.400 --> 1:07:23.440
<v Speaker 2>But with Luke Bateman, they were actually quite good conversations

1:07:23.440 --> 1:07:26.600
<v Speaker 2>in between sex. They were Yeah, So we wanted to

1:07:27.320 --> 1:07:33.080
<v Speaker 2>show them to you, BTS BTS. This first one was

1:07:33.640 --> 1:07:36.160
<v Speaker 2>right after we kind of just like wrapped up the

1:07:36.160 --> 1:07:38.280
<v Speaker 2>first segment. We just kind of kept talking and then

1:07:38.280 --> 1:07:40.000
<v Speaker 2>spoke for a minute, and we just thought it was

1:07:40.000 --> 1:07:40.479
<v Speaker 2>really nice.

1:07:40.480 --> 1:07:41.360
<v Speaker 1>So here go.

1:07:42.240 --> 1:07:45.400
<v Speaker 2>That is fucking sick. By the way, you also said

1:07:45.440 --> 1:07:48.000
<v Speaker 2>another thing on that podcast where you were like, you're

1:07:48.040 --> 1:07:50.800
<v Speaker 2>not a goals based you're values based. Yeah, you live

1:07:50.880 --> 1:07:53.360
<v Speaker 2>based off values, like instead of being like, well, I

1:07:53.360 --> 1:07:54.280
<v Speaker 2>want to get to this goal.

1:07:55.360 --> 1:07:58.840
<v Speaker 1>Because I think when you set goals sometimes they might

1:07:58.880 --> 1:08:01.480
<v Speaker 1>be out of alignment with your values, and then you'll

1:08:01.520 --> 1:08:03.720
<v Speaker 1>reach that goal and you go, oh, this didn't give

1:08:03.760 --> 1:08:07.040
<v Speaker 1>me what I wanted. I'm not fulfilled. I'm not happy. Okay,

1:08:07.160 --> 1:08:09.320
<v Speaker 1>I don't actually get any joy from this. Whereas when

1:08:09.360 --> 1:08:11.640
<v Speaker 1>you make decisions based off of your values, you know

1:08:11.680 --> 1:08:15.920
<v Speaker 1>that whatever end points you end at, it's going to

1:08:15.960 --> 1:08:19.240
<v Speaker 1>be fulfilling and rewarding because it's based on your values.

1:08:19.520 --> 1:08:22.080
<v Speaker 1>So I think I always said to people saying I

1:08:22.120 --> 1:08:26.200
<v Speaker 1>think something, I really love learning, so just learning some

1:08:26.240 --> 1:08:27.719
<v Speaker 1>of that, and it's like, that's why I love reading

1:08:27.720 --> 1:08:29.839
<v Speaker 1>because I love learning. So then when I make a decisions,

1:08:29.880 --> 1:08:32.200
<v Speaker 1>I to go, okay, does this bring me more learning

1:08:32.560 --> 1:08:35.040
<v Speaker 1>or doesn't anything like, okay, that does bring me more learning.

1:08:35.280 --> 1:08:37.240
<v Speaker 1>So yes, I'm going to say yes to that, because

1:08:37.280 --> 1:08:40.080
<v Speaker 1>no matter what the outcome is, I'm going to learn

1:08:40.080 --> 1:08:41.880
<v Speaker 1>something instead.

1:08:41.520 --> 1:08:43.639
<v Speaker 3>Of going all right, well I want to win either way.

1:08:43.720 --> 1:08:46.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're no either way, no matter what the guy Yeah, yeah.

1:08:46.680 --> 1:08:50.280
<v Speaker 2>I wish you didn't say that because and I only.

1:08:50.120 --> 1:08:52.960
<v Speaker 1>Know this because I was such a goals based person

1:08:53.200 --> 1:08:55.600
<v Speaker 1>for so long, okay, because I was always you know,

1:08:55.640 --> 1:08:57.240
<v Speaker 1>growing up, I was always I want to make it

1:08:57.360 --> 1:08:59.000
<v Speaker 1>like this footy team, or I want to make it

1:08:59.000 --> 1:09:01.800
<v Speaker 1>to the NRL, want this amount of money, or I

1:09:01.840 --> 1:09:04.120
<v Speaker 1>want to get that I want my NL contract to

1:09:04.120 --> 1:09:07.200
<v Speaker 1>be excellent number. It was always like goals, and then

1:09:07.240 --> 1:09:10.200
<v Speaker 1>I would reach those goals and I'd be like, oh

1:09:10.560 --> 1:09:12.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm still horribly unhappy.

1:09:12.920 --> 1:09:14.719
<v Speaker 2>Dang it. So money doesn't buy happiness.

1:09:16.280 --> 1:09:23.639
<v Speaker 1>Success made all these things success, money, happy, success, money, fame.

1:09:24.400 --> 1:09:27.760
<v Speaker 1>None of it brings you happiness, and and I think

1:09:27.800 --> 1:09:30.320
<v Speaker 1>that they're always what we put our we base our

1:09:30.360 --> 1:09:32.360
<v Speaker 1>goals around growing up, because I was like, I want

1:09:32.360 --> 1:09:33.960
<v Speaker 1>to be famous, I want to be rich, I want

1:09:33.960 --> 1:09:35.920
<v Speaker 1>to be this, I want to be that. Instead of

1:09:35.960 --> 1:09:38.840
<v Speaker 1>going okay, what's important to me and and like storytelling

1:09:38.920 --> 1:09:41.200
<v Speaker 1>is another thing, like a real value of mind storytelling.

1:09:41.560 --> 1:09:44.640
<v Speaker 1>So I go, does this bring me more storytelling? Or

1:09:44.720 --> 1:09:47.800
<v Speaker 1>doesn't it? And then you yeah, and you know and

1:09:48.000 --> 1:09:50.320
<v Speaker 1>same with intent, Yeah.

1:09:51.040 --> 1:09:55.519
<v Speaker 2>Does it help a little bit? What money rich?

1:10:00.640 --> 1:10:04.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't. I would actually even say this too about money,

1:10:05.000 --> 1:10:06.799
<v Speaker 1>what do you want that money for stuff?

1:10:06.920 --> 1:10:08.280
<v Speaker 2>Because because if you.

1:10:08.240 --> 1:10:11.120
<v Speaker 1>Want that money to buy stuff, if you want that

1:10:11.160 --> 1:10:14.200
<v Speaker 1>money to live in a massive house, that's not going

1:10:14.240 --> 1:10:16.559
<v Speaker 1>to bring you for filming, Like and you might think

1:10:16.680 --> 1:10:20.280
<v Speaker 1>once I have an eight bedroom house, they're I'll be happy.

1:10:20.720 --> 1:10:21.400
<v Speaker 1>Not going to happen.

1:10:21.760 --> 1:10:24.759
<v Speaker 2>Is there anything like is there anything freeing about knowing

1:10:24.840 --> 1:10:27.840
<v Speaker 2>that you have enough money to do that if you want?

1:10:28.320 --> 1:10:32.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, I don't have that money.

1:10:32.200 --> 1:10:33.599
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about books.

1:10:33.800 --> 1:10:36.040
<v Speaker 1>I don't live in it. I don't live in an

1:10:36.240 --> 1:10:40.400
<v Speaker 1>Betty house. But I think for me, especially nowadays, with

1:10:40.520 --> 1:10:43.160
<v Speaker 1>money and being an ex scamming adictor. And we may

1:10:43.200 --> 1:10:45.240
<v Speaker 1>even get that, but being an ex scam I've really

1:10:45.280 --> 1:10:47.400
<v Speaker 1>had to change my relationship with money because money was

1:10:47.400 --> 1:10:49.760
<v Speaker 1>something I had a really bad relationship with for so long.

1:10:50.200 --> 1:10:53.400
<v Speaker 1>So now I you know, I really want to make

1:10:53.400 --> 1:10:55.120
<v Speaker 1>a lot of money. But that's actually so that I

1:10:55.160 --> 1:10:58.040
<v Speaker 1>can change a lot of people's lives because I don't

1:10:58.080 --> 1:11:01.840
<v Speaker 1>really what am I going to do with money? You

1:11:01.880 --> 1:11:04.320
<v Speaker 1>can go from a four bedroom house to a six

1:11:04.400 --> 1:11:07.280
<v Speaker 1>bedroom house. There's only so many things to do where

1:11:07.439 --> 1:11:10.040
<v Speaker 1>I want money so that I can help people and

1:11:10.120 --> 1:11:11.040
<v Speaker 1>change people's lives.

1:11:11.840 --> 1:11:13.600
<v Speaker 2>That's a pretty good. Yeah, it sucks you said on

1:11:13.640 --> 1:11:15.120
<v Speaker 2>that because I've got a decision to make where I

1:11:15.160 --> 1:11:18.160
<v Speaker 2>could either be spiteful or not spiteful, and it's probably

1:11:18.200 --> 1:11:20.040
<v Speaker 2>going to happen this afternoon, and now I'm not going

1:11:20.040 --> 1:11:20.519
<v Speaker 2>to be spiteful.

1:11:20.560 --> 1:11:22.439
<v Speaker 1>I would encourage you to be not spiteful. Yeah.

1:11:22.600 --> 1:11:24.120
<v Speaker 2>Have you ever been spiteful though? And been like that?

1:11:24.200 --> 1:11:24.960
<v Speaker 2>Did feel kind of good?

1:11:25.720 --> 1:11:35.120
<v Speaker 1>Oh? Yes, I've been spiteful many, many times, many times.

1:11:35.200 --> 1:11:39.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we're human. I'm probably spiteful every day. It's something,

1:11:39.720 --> 1:11:43.040
<v Speaker 1>but I think it's that. Has it felt good in

1:11:43.160 --> 1:11:47.160
<v Speaker 1>the moment ego before ego? Yeah? Absolutely? Has it felt good?

1:11:47.320 --> 1:11:50.920
<v Speaker 1>Has it ever served me long term? Never better?

1:11:52.520 --> 1:11:55.040
<v Speaker 2>Anyway? Well? Okay, that comes. That was really good. We

1:11:55.080 --> 1:11:56.640
<v Speaker 2>might train to slip that in the pod somewhere, but

1:11:57.160 --> 1:11:58.439
<v Speaker 2>we'll do our actually interright now.

1:11:58.520 --> 1:12:02.760
<v Speaker 3>Okay, that was superful? Yeah, really good. Yeah, we love

1:12:02.800 --> 1:12:03.800
<v Speaker 3>our best friend Luke Bateman.

1:12:03.800 --> 1:12:07.000
<v Speaker 2>Now don't we wait, our best friend Lou Bateman. He's

1:12:07.040 --> 1:12:10.400
<v Speaker 2>such a good friend that we go by Luke Bateman. Yeah.

1:12:10.439 --> 1:12:12.959
<v Speaker 2>But hid the scenes even more is we've been messaging.

1:12:14.400 --> 1:12:15.280
<v Speaker 1>We have been.

1:12:15.120 --> 1:12:16.920
<v Speaker 2>Texting Lou Bateman. And let me tell you one thing.

1:12:16.960 --> 1:12:18.639
<v Speaker 2>I haven't been leaving him on Delivered and I haven't

1:12:18.640 --> 1:12:20.720
<v Speaker 2>been leaving him on Red. I've been texting back straight away.

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<v Speaker 2>We're bff.

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<v Speaker 3>But this next bit is right before we call one

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<v Speaker 3>of you baddies. There was just a break in there

1:12:27.880 --> 1:12:29.920
<v Speaker 3>and we actually talk about something that Jake and I

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<v Speaker 3>have struggled with a lot. In a sense of our

1:12:32.200 --> 1:12:36.000
<v Speaker 3>demo is ninety percent plus women, which were super grateful for.

1:12:36.240 --> 1:12:38.840
<v Speaker 3>But a lot of the issues we talk about we

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<v Speaker 3>have struggle, struggle wrapping our head around how to make

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<v Speaker 3>an actionable change when we're not talking to men most

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<v Speaker 3>of the time. Yes, and we talk about that. We'll

1:12:47.520 --> 1:12:48.760
<v Speaker 3>get to it in there. We talk about calling a

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<v Speaker 3>batty too, That's why we're talking about.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so we kind of asked him or we just said, like,

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<v Speaker 2>we've had comments on posts on Instagram of like obviously

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<v Speaker 2>so many of the comments are so nice but some

1:12:58.800 --> 1:13:01.479
<v Speaker 2>of the comments are like yeah, but like what's the point,

1:13:01.640 --> 1:13:03.080
<v Speaker 2>And I kind of read them and I think sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>I think, like what is the point? And so we

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<v Speaker 2>just like asked him about it.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, that's a great place.

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<v Speaker 2>Was all right, we gotta sign off. Oh yeah we did.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you talk about something?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we call a batie, yes, yeah, and then we didn't.

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<v Speaker 2>The baddies don't know you're on. So whoever answers sick,

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<v Speaker 2>We're gonna be like, do you know who look great? Men?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Oh wait, so this is is this a male

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<v Speaker 1>or female?

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<v Speaker 2>It'll be a woman.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>We've had women about four percent of men that listened

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<v Speaker 2>to our podcast. Yeah, that's like, I know, we're not

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<v Speaker 2>technically this won't be Another issue is like we've had

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<v Speaker 2>people comment on things where we we'll talk about band

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<v Speaker 2>against women and people be like, yeah, but what are

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<v Speaker 2>you doing saying this to women? Women know this, and

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<v Speaker 2>we're kind of like, fun, we're stuck in a bit

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<v Speaker 2>of a suga here. It was like we are we

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<v Speaker 2>know we only have women, but.

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<v Speaker 1>Like we're trying and I'm in the same boat or

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<v Speaker 1>mainly women. Well eighty percent of my audience are women. Yeah,

1:13:57.600 --> 1:14:01.320
<v Speaker 1>because there's books like it's women. So it is really

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<v Speaker 1>difficult because then but the thing is you can't stop

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<v Speaker 1>like that doesn't make your effort. I mean, we shouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>try one hundred percent. Yeah, and that's where I said,

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<v Speaker 1>you when okay, Then it's because it doesn't have to

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<v Speaker 1>be like you don't have to be getting to two

1:14:18.320 --> 1:14:21.559
<v Speaker 1>million men's ears. You've got to be getting to your

1:14:21.640 --> 1:14:24.240
<v Speaker 1>mate of the pub. And that's like and that's like

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<v Speaker 1>I have like my three close friends, and I say,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a standard we accept. And then I hope

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<v Speaker 1>that they tell that their sort of other like two

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<v Speaker 1>or three friends or whatever, this is standard we accept.

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<v Speaker 1>Because once you get every single bloke holding there at

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<v Speaker 1>one or two mates accountable, that's how you get large

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<v Speaker 1>social change. Because this podcast one doesn't it doesn't matter

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<v Speaker 1>even if your listeners were one hundred percent male, you're

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<v Speaker 1>only getting x amount of you know what I mean?

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<v Speaker 2>And we're better off going to four percent of our

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred then zero percent of our.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, yes, yes, because then those four percent, as I said,

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<v Speaker 1>then they go and hold two or three of their

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<v Speaker 1>friends accountable, and then that's how you like, hopefully those

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<v Speaker 1>dominoes start to fall in effect. So you absolutely correct, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>just because it's only four percent, man, that doesn't make

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<v Speaker 1>it any less important.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, take your headphones on.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's see what should I I'll preface this segment obviously

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<v Speaker 3>call them, and then we'll say we're here with Luke Bateman,

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<v Speaker 3>and do you want to ask could you please sign

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<v Speaker 3>off the episode? And you can say you can say

1:15:24.400 --> 1:15:26.040
<v Speaker 3>a quote, you can say a riddle, you can say

1:15:26.040 --> 1:15:26.599
<v Speaker 3>whatever you want.

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<v Speaker 2>We've recently been asking for riddles. They might not all have.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll throw it to you. We're going to throw it

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<v Speaker 2>to Luke.

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<v Speaker 1>Addle.

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<v Speaker 2>You could just be like a quote. So if we

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<v Speaker 2>say like we're here with Luke Bateman and he's got

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<v Speaker 2>a question for you, maybe yeah, and so they'll answer

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<v Speaker 2>checking out from the labels, we're here of Luke Bitman

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<v Speaker 2>and he's got a question for you. And then you

1:15:46.000 --> 1:15:48.160
<v Speaker 2>can just be like, hey, we'll sell you her name

1:15:48.240 --> 1:15:49.920
<v Speaker 2>and we'll be like, hey, can you please sign off

1:15:49.920 --> 1:15:52.400
<v Speaker 2>the episode? See what they say? Okay about it. Once

1:15:52.439 --> 1:15:56.320
<v Speaker 2>again he's hit us with something very insightful, something to

1:15:56.320 --> 1:15:58.840
<v Speaker 2>think about. Let us know what you think. One more thing.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the last thing we're going to this are

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<v Speaker 2>you going to end on this, and so I asked

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<v Speaker 2>him a question. So, when we were talking about val

1:16:05.760 --> 1:16:08.720
<v Speaker 2>scans women and we were on the topic of, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>what's the best thing that we can do to a

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<v Speaker 2>friend that we have found out, is you know, being

1:16:16.479 --> 1:16:20.280
<v Speaker 2>violent towards his girlfriend or wife, or maybe he is

1:16:20.880 --> 1:16:23.920
<v Speaker 2>not violent, but he's like, you know, yelling, shouting is

1:16:23.920 --> 1:16:25.920
<v Speaker 2>a shitty man, those type of things. You know, what,

1:16:25.920 --> 1:16:28.080
<v Speaker 2>fuck it just violence, you know, it's not changed topic.

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<v Speaker 2>He's violent. And so he said that casting them out

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<v Speaker 2>of the group and making them feel as though they're

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<v Speaker 2>not part of the group is what we should do.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I think I asked, like, oh, that is

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<v Speaker 2>obviously something that would work, but what about when like

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<v Speaker 2>it's like you're not kind, like you're calling him out,

1:16:49.000 --> 1:16:51.000
<v Speaker 2>you don't know it's stopping. Yeah, but like yeah, so

1:16:51.000 --> 1:16:52.559
<v Speaker 2>it's like you don't know if it's going to be stopping.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's almost kind of like turning a blind die

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<v Speaker 2>by being like, well, we don't want to be friends

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<v Speaker 2>with you. And then he thought about that, and I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think we spoke too much into it after that,

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<v Speaker 2>But this is from a text message you sent us

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<v Speaker 2>from about two days after it, and he sent us

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<v Speaker 2>a really good text message and he thought about it

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<v Speaker 2>more so I'm going to read it to you, he said, boys,

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<v Speaker 2>thinking back to a question from yesterday. So this is

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<v Speaker 2>the day after around what to do with the mate

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<v Speaker 2>who is being disrespectful slash abusive to women, and that

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<v Speaker 2>casting them out may not be the best course. I

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<v Speaker 2>think it needs to be an invitation towards something like that,

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<v Speaker 2>not calling them out, but calling them in saying hey,

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<v Speaker 2>we're your mates and we love you. If you want

1:17:30.800 --> 1:17:32.639
<v Speaker 2>to join us over here, we would love that more

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<v Speaker 2>than anything. But until you're ready to join us to

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<v Speaker 2>learn to do better, we can't be friends. And that's

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<v Speaker 2>a great way to say to set the boundary while

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<v Speaker 2>not casting someone out. Just been thinking about that and

1:17:45.439 --> 1:17:47.799
<v Speaker 2>had to share. We also need to be brave enough

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<v Speaker 2>as men to be okay to stand in that place,

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<v Speaker 2>even if it means we have no friends, because slowly

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<v Speaker 2>the tide is turning and eventually there will be more

1:17:56.520 --> 1:18:00.040
<v Speaker 2>of us than not. And then he said, ted talk xx.

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<v Speaker 3>Which is good too because it gives like a tangible

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<v Speaker 3>step first before casting of course.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, and like you're giving someone the chance

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<v Speaker 2>to want to.

1:18:09.400 --> 1:18:13.040
<v Speaker 3>Do better because we talked a lot about like you're

1:18:13.040 --> 1:18:14.640
<v Speaker 3>talking to death ears, like a lot of these men

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<v Speaker 3>don't want to change, yeah, exactly, Whereas with that you're

1:18:18.280 --> 1:18:20.680
<v Speaker 3>kind of reaching out your hand and saying, hey, this

1:18:20.800 --> 1:18:23.599
<v Speaker 3>is how you should be and hopefully they recognize that first,

1:18:24.000 --> 1:18:26.040
<v Speaker 3>and then if they don't you then all you can

1:18:26.120 --> 1:18:28.559
<v Speaker 3>do is say, mate, I'm not going to be friends

1:18:28.560 --> 1:18:28.760
<v Speaker 3>of you.

1:18:28.800 --> 1:18:32.360
<v Speaker 2>Exactly. Yeah, that's unacceptable. You actually have done, you know,

1:18:32.560 --> 1:18:35.160
<v Speaker 2>everything you can do, apart from, of course, you know,

1:18:35.560 --> 1:18:38.760
<v Speaker 2>maybe getting authorities involved like that type of thing. Yeah,

1:18:39.080 --> 1:18:42.479
<v Speaker 2>so that is our ted talk.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's it, and it was a pleasure to have

1:18:45.400 --> 1:18:48.080
<v Speaker 3>Luke Battman on board. Sick If you like it, he's

1:18:48.120 --> 1:18:49.760
<v Speaker 3>coming back. He's coming back for sure.

1:18:49.840 --> 1:18:54.479
<v Speaker 2>He's definitely coming back. Thanks Buddie's Leah