WEBVTT - Samantha Vidler, Managing Partner QLD, PWC 0:00:05.881 --> 0:00:07.281 Appoche Production. 0:00:10.721 --> 0:00:14.441 Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the CEO series. 0:00:14.681 --> 0:00:18.480 This series, we launch into the new world of brave leadership. 0:00:18.601 --> 0:00:20.721 Happy people create happy businesses. 0:00:20.561 --> 0:00:24.160 True emotionally intelligent leadership. I've picked up vomit once on 0:00:24.241 --> 0:00:26.640 OW about our fourth flight and everybody thought, well, if 0:00:26.641 --> 0:00:28.161 it's good enough for him, I can do it. 0:00:28.201 --> 0:00:28.401 Now. 0:00:28.481 --> 0:00:31.601 We will be joined by culture and leadership experts and 0:00:31.641 --> 0:00:35.441 some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth 0:00:35.521 --> 0:00:39.280 behind their brave leadership journeys. Today I am thrilled to 0:00:39.281 --> 0:00:43.400 be joined by Managing partner at PwC Queensland, Samantha Vidler. 0:00:43.681 --> 0:00:46.721 PwC being one of the world's largest professional service firms, 0:00:46.801 --> 0:00:49.321 with over three hundred and sixty four thousand people across 0:00:49.361 --> 0:00:52.241 one hundred fifty countries, advising many of the world's most 0:00:52.241 --> 0:00:56.401 influential organizations on everything from audit assurance to strategy, tax 0:00:56.441 --> 0:01:00.161 and transformation. So part of what initiated my request to 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:02.481 want to interview Sam was obviously when I heard that 0:01:02.521 --> 0:01:05.481 you'd been with PwC for thirty years. First of all, 0:01:05.481 --> 0:01:07.041 I didn't believe because I was like, how do you 0:01:07.081 --> 0:01:08.441 look like that and you've been there for thirty years. 0:01:08.441 --> 0:01:10.521 I don't know if that's possible, but I really was 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:13.761 fascinated to chat with you on what you've understood and 0:01:13.801 --> 0:01:16.200 seen about your own leadership and what's out there over 0:01:16.241 --> 0:01:18.281 this period. I haven't had a guess with a ten 0:01:18.321 --> 0:01:20.361 you're like yours and I'm sure you get that a lot. Yeah, 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.401 but it is a really interesting one I'd love to explore. Plus, 0:01:23.481 --> 0:01:26.481 we are both part of the Goats Vinese team, so 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:29.521 this is the Saint Viny's CEO sleepout, So I feel 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:31.640 like we both share a passion for using our influence 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.521 for good. So I often start my interviews going back 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.520 to childhood because for me, in the space of leadership, 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:39.401 a lot stems from when you were a kid, right 0:01:39.481 --> 0:01:42.000 and what happened in that time. So you couldn't even 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:43.560 figure out where you were born. Were you born in Brazil? 0:01:43.721 --> 0:01:45.160 Born in Victoria, Victoria? 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:48.441 Yeah, okay, all right, so tell me a bit about 0:01:48.441 --> 0:01:49.321 those early days. 0:01:49.521 --> 0:01:53.121 Always an outdoorsy family. We lived on sort of acreage 0:01:53.241 --> 0:01:56.001 in Victoria, which is cool, and had a range of 0:01:56.041 --> 0:02:00.240 different animals from time to time, very wide and diverse range. 0:02:00.321 --> 0:02:03.081 But grew up really loving the outdoor life, the beach 0:02:03.201 --> 0:02:06.881 and also grew up water skiing at Lake Yielden and 0:02:06.921 --> 0:02:09.921 that was pretty cool. Siblings siblings won older sisters. 0:02:10.001 --> 0:02:12.201 Yeah. Actually she's still in Victoria. 0:02:12.361 --> 0:02:14.081 Yeah right. And so when you think about, like who 0:02:14.201 --> 0:02:16.681 was your biggest influencer role model growing up. 0:02:16.761 --> 0:02:18.961 I think it was really just around family. 0:02:19.201 --> 0:02:22.281 Had parents that gave us an opportunity to do lots 0:02:22.281 --> 0:02:24.801 of different things. Sink or swim, have a crack, I 0:02:24.841 --> 0:02:26.281 have a go, have a go as one of my 0:02:26.361 --> 0:02:29.560 favorite sayings or values, And so I think it was 0:02:29.641 --> 0:02:32.281 really that make the most of your opportunities. You know, 0:02:32.281 --> 0:02:36.001 when you're given really good opportunities to have good education 0:02:36.361 --> 0:02:38.881 and grow up in a pretty stable household, you learn 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:39.521 to value that. 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.121 Yeah yeah, okay, And I did read online that you 0:02:42.121 --> 0:02:44.001 were the first of your family to tend university. 0:02:44.081 --> 0:02:45.961 Is in their generation and that generation. 0:02:46.121 --> 0:02:49.240 Yeah right. So the career that moved into accounting, I'm 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.000 assuming was this like your dream growing up as a 0:02:51.001 --> 0:02:51.481 little girl. 0:02:52.721 --> 0:02:55.121 I wanted to be a vet. 0:02:55.321 --> 0:02:55.641 Youvet. 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.881 I wasn't very good at biology. Going into accounting was 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:01.601 just a kind of fell into it from school. The 0:03:01.641 --> 0:03:03.321 reason I've been with the firm for so long is 0:03:03.321 --> 0:03:05.921 because they hired me straight out of school, which was 0:03:06.081 --> 0:03:08.361 a little bit unique at the time in terms of, 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:10.961 you know, starting so young and not really knowing what 0:03:11.001 --> 0:03:13.841 I was getting myself in for. I had an accounting 0:03:13.881 --> 0:03:16.561 teacher that said, you're going okay at accounting? Have you 0:03:16.601 --> 0:03:19.680 thought about going for this trainee ship? And I had 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:21.521 no idea who the firm was, what. 0:03:21.441 --> 0:03:24.160 It was all about. But he landed there and here 0:03:24.161 --> 0:03:24.841 I am, now. 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:27.240 Okay, So you became if I'm correct, you became a partner. 0:03:27.001 --> 0:03:29.481 At thirty, a little bit older than that early. 0:03:30.081 --> 0:03:33.000 Yeah, yeah, which is pretty bold by anyone's standards. So obviously, 0:03:33.001 --> 0:03:35.481 you know my program is brave. My leadership programs we 0:03:35.561 --> 0:03:38.801 talk about bold, resilient, authentic, vulnerable, empathetics. We kind of 0:03:38.801 --> 0:03:40.921 like move around those topics. But when I think of 0:03:40.961 --> 0:03:45.001 bold being so young, where did imposter syndrome come into 0:03:45.041 --> 0:03:46.601 sort of that? Like, I guess you're in a playing 0:03:46.641 --> 0:03:49.521 field with you know, some big people, some big personalities. 0:03:49.841 --> 0:03:51.801 If I think of EWC, sometimes you think of that 0:03:51.921 --> 0:03:54.721 very corporate structure, Yes, and yeah, thirty years ago it 0:03:54.881 --> 0:03:57.521 was very much so. So how did you feel at 0:03:57.521 --> 0:03:57.921 that time? 0:03:58.041 --> 0:04:00.761 I think, like anybody starting out, I'd like to think 0:04:00.841 --> 0:04:04.401 we're all pretty humble in terms of you don't know 0:04:04.401 --> 0:04:07.201 what you don't know, and you're learning every single day. 0:04:07.401 --> 0:04:10.841 And certainly back in those days, I think one of 0:04:10.881 --> 0:04:13.281 the first partners I met, I called him mister Wilson 0:04:13.641 --> 0:04:16.641 because you always used mister or there weren't a lot 0:04:16.681 --> 0:04:19.320 of female partners at that time to look too. So 0:04:19.521 --> 0:04:22.841 I think when you talk about imposter syndrome, certainly had 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:26.041 it then, still have it today in certain regards. 0:04:26.201 --> 0:04:28.321 I think if you ever get comfortable, you probably need 0:04:28.361 --> 0:04:30.121 to move on and look through another challenge. 0:04:30.201 --> 0:04:31.760 Yeah, that's a nice reframing that. I think a lot 0:04:31.761 --> 0:04:34.121 of people avoid the idea like don't want to have 0:04:34.161 --> 0:04:37.601 impositi syndrome, But maybe actually it's more about pushing you 0:04:37.641 --> 0:04:38.440 to want to be better. 0:04:38.521 --> 0:04:38.721 Yeah. 0:04:38.841 --> 0:04:40.121 I think you learned to live with it, and I 0:04:40.161 --> 0:04:42.041 don't think it ever goes away. Certainly for me, I 0:04:42.081 --> 0:04:44.561 don't feel like it's ever gone away. There's still times 0:04:44.561 --> 0:04:46.521 you think, what am I doing here? And do I 0:04:46.561 --> 0:04:50.321 belong here? And am I worthy of being in amongst 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:51.561 the people that you're meeting? 0:04:51.681 --> 0:04:54.281 How do you reset yourself from that? How you let 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:55.161 it not get on top of you? 0:04:55.801 --> 0:04:57.441 Oh that's a gee whiz. 0:04:57.921 --> 0:05:00.121 I think you take those small little moments of the 0:05:00.161 --> 0:05:03.361 pad on the back, or the encouragement that others might 0:05:03.401 --> 0:05:06.080 give you, or the end of the day you perk 0:05:06.121 --> 0:05:08.841 yourself up and go, no, no, I'm here. I've got 0:05:08.841 --> 0:05:10.921 to face into this one and give it a red 0:05:10.961 --> 0:05:11.281 hot Go. 0:05:11.681 --> 0:05:13.481 Are you good at self compassion? 0:05:14.641 --> 0:05:15.761 Oh? Probably not. 0:05:15.841 --> 0:05:17.440 I don't think I've met anyone yet, because it is 0:05:17.481 --> 0:05:18.001 a question. 0:05:18.521 --> 0:05:20.241 I think we're terrible at it as human beings, Like 0:05:20.281 --> 0:05:22.561 we're really good at giving that to others, we really 0:05:22.601 --> 0:05:25.241 find it difficult to have that narrative to us. Absolutely, so, 0:05:25.961 --> 0:05:28.601 I guess how do you then, And particularly thinking about 0:05:28.641 --> 0:05:31.401 your early career, how did you back yourself when stakes 0:05:31.401 --> 0:05:33.721 were high, like you had to go in and you know, 0:05:33.761 --> 0:05:36.921 present something or challenge something when you are young and 0:05:36.961 --> 0:05:37.441 a female. 0:05:37.761 --> 0:05:41.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that came from the upbringing 0:05:41.521 --> 0:05:43.841 of you've just got to have a go and you've 0:05:43.841 --> 0:05:46.440 got to put your best foot forward. If a job's 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:48.681 worth doing, you do it to the best of your ability. 0:05:49.121 --> 0:05:52.041 And I always think back to that and go, if 0:05:52.081 --> 0:05:53.440 I'm going to do something, I'm going to give it 0:05:53.481 --> 0:05:56.481 my all and if it works, it works, and if 0:05:56.521 --> 0:05:58.321 it doesn't, I'm not a brain surgeon. 0:05:58.361 --> 0:05:59.121 No one's going to die. 0:05:59.241 --> 0:06:01.361 I've made a few mistakes over my time, and you 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:03.201 dust yourself off and get back up. 0:06:03.521 --> 0:06:07.001 But that sort of gret to Nash mindsetting. Okay, Look, 0:06:07.041 --> 0:06:08.961 when it comes to bold, bold for me is a 0:06:09.041 --> 0:06:12.081 thing I must do right. So it's leaning into the uncomfortable, 0:06:12.281 --> 0:06:13.841 having those feelings come up. When you're like, oh, it 0:06:13.841 --> 0:06:15.320 doesn't feel good, but there's the thing I must do. 0:06:15.361 --> 0:06:17.161 Then I got to lean into it. So how do 0:06:17.201 --> 0:06:19.281 you keep pushing yourself to find the limits of your 0:06:19.361 --> 0:06:22.361 uncomfortable When you beat an organization for thirty years and 0:06:22.401 --> 0:06:23.521 you know this business so well. 0:06:23.801 --> 0:06:27.640 Oh, I think the organization in itself, the firm, always 0:06:27.681 --> 0:06:31.161 gives you different opportunities, and so you never get comfortable. 0:06:31.521 --> 0:06:34.321 You're always doing something different. There's always something new to learn. 0:06:34.841 --> 0:06:38.760 The industry is always changing, the demands from our clients 0:06:38.761 --> 0:06:42.681 are always changing. The world is changing. So at a 0:06:42.681 --> 0:06:44.921 point in time, I think I know the organization inside 0:06:44.961 --> 0:06:48.481 and out after thirty years, But the organization doesn't stand still, 0:06:48.521 --> 0:06:49.641 and so neither do you. 0:06:49.681 --> 0:06:51.760 In your own way, you have to keep learning and 0:06:51.841 --> 0:06:52.521 keep keeping up. 0:06:52.641 --> 0:06:54.841 What about personally, do you see set yourself personal goals 0:06:54.841 --> 0:06:56.601 to keep not really. 0:06:56.921 --> 0:06:59.761 I'm not a massive goal set. People talk about, oh, 0:06:59.761 --> 0:07:00.440 what's your five. 0:07:00.361 --> 0:07:03.601 Year plan or what's your long term goals? That's just 0:07:03.601 --> 0:07:04.521 not who I am. 0:07:04.361 --> 0:07:06.760 I live in the moment, good honesty, Like I don't 0:07:06.761 --> 0:07:09.441 think I was of for everybody. Yeah sometimes, but. 0:07:09.401 --> 0:07:11.921 Maybe twelve months out that's as much as I could. Probably. 0:07:11.961 --> 0:07:13.801 You know, what min uncomfortable is going to networking events, 0:07:13.841 --> 0:07:14.601 which is where I met you. 0:07:14.681 --> 0:07:15.401 Like it, won't. 0:07:15.481 --> 0:07:16.281 I do not like going. 0:07:16.321 --> 0:07:19.161 That is I've had to learn to get come. 0:07:19.281 --> 0:07:20.881 I reckon so much more of it. Like many of 0:07:20.921 --> 0:07:24.561 us are all standing there deeply controvert at heart. Yeah, 0:07:24.561 --> 0:07:26.521 I mean I'm not, but I just don't like those things. 0:07:26.561 --> 0:07:28.081 I don't know why. Then it might make you feel 0:07:28.081 --> 0:07:30.321 so uncomfortable, but I continue to do it because I 0:07:30.361 --> 0:07:31.641 think we're doing something uncomfortable. 0:07:31.641 --> 0:07:34.041 Probably are last week, So I'm doing something uncomfortable right now. 0:07:34.201 --> 0:07:36.600 You are doing this as your first podcaus I love that. Yeah, okay, 0:07:36.801 --> 0:07:38.441 if we look at your thirty years, so it gets 0:07:38.441 --> 0:07:41.041 the big fundamental questions, well, what kept you here? What's 0:07:41.121 --> 0:07:43.801 kept you here? And what's changed dramatically over that time 0:07:43.841 --> 0:07:45.481 that's kept you challenge and interested? 0:07:45.761 --> 0:07:48.481 Yep, I've had the privilege of working in different offices. 0:07:48.561 --> 0:07:51.441 So started in Melbourne, spent a few years in Canberra, 0:07:51.561 --> 0:07:54.201 spent a couple of years in Townsville and now Brisbane. 0:07:54.321 --> 0:07:58.001 So I guess in a way, each move was like 0:07:58.161 --> 0:08:00.801 starting a new job in a way. So there were 0:08:00.881 --> 0:08:05.281 challenges around a new market, new clients, new people, get 0:08:05.321 --> 0:08:07.681 to know within the firm, all of those sorts of things. 0:08:07.681 --> 0:08:10.081 So I guess where they talk about people have different 0:08:10.121 --> 0:08:13.641 jobs across their careers, it sort of feels like I've 0:08:13.681 --> 0:08:18.241 had that which keeps you engage. It's actually been brilliant 0:08:18.281 --> 0:08:21.521 in terms of knowing a lot of people within the firm, 0:08:21.561 --> 0:08:24.201 which is wonderful when you think about how your collaboration, 0:08:24.841 --> 0:08:28.161 how we work nationally and internationally, and that sort of stuff. 0:08:28.241 --> 0:08:31.361 So that's kept me engaged. Fundamentally. 0:08:31.401 --> 0:08:34.721 I have a love of learning, so my job requires 0:08:34.761 --> 0:08:37.601 me to keep learning and keep providing advice to clients. 0:08:37.681 --> 0:08:40.721 So I'm learning as much as everybody else is. So 0:08:41.561 --> 0:08:43.041 and my clients just love my clients. 0:08:43.121 --> 0:08:45.841 You must built some beautiful relationships over this period. They 0:08:45.921 --> 0:08:47.521 must be like family, some of them. I mean, you've 0:08:47.881 --> 0:08:48.481 seen people. 0:08:48.481 --> 0:08:50.401 Feels like a lot of them feel like family, and 0:08:50.441 --> 0:08:52.201 we want to sort of start talking about the royal 0:08:52.281 --> 0:08:53.921 we and we've done this and we've done that, and 0:08:53.961 --> 0:08:54.881 you go hang on a minute. 0:08:54.801 --> 0:08:57.681 Yeah, which obviously to me, like relationships are just the 0:08:57.721 --> 0:09:00.721 critical part of a great organization and culture. But how 0:09:00.761 --> 0:09:02.521 does trust it with you? Like, how does trust play 0:09:02.521 --> 0:09:02.961 out with you? 0:09:03.041 --> 0:09:05.561 Trust is a two way street, so you get a 0:09:05.601 --> 0:09:08.241 good feel for people early on, you do have to 0:09:08.241 --> 0:09:11.761 build that trust over time, that really true trusts, that 0:09:11.841 --> 0:09:15.681 really deep seated. Your client trusts you, and you trust 0:09:15.961 --> 0:09:18.641 your client, You trust your coworkers and all that. 0:09:18.521 --> 0:09:21.841 Sort of stuff. So it is something to be earned 0:09:21.881 --> 0:09:22.441 over time. 0:09:22.521 --> 0:09:25.441 I think do you find that showing vulnerability is that 0:09:25.561 --> 0:09:27.441 harder to do as you get more senior in the organization. 0:09:27.641 --> 0:09:29.721 I think for some people it is. I'm a pretty 0:09:29.721 --> 0:09:32.361 open book. What you see is what you get type 0:09:32.401 --> 0:09:36.281 thing with most people. So I think we're all human, right, 0:09:36.481 --> 0:09:39.481 So I'm going to make mistakes like the next person. 0:09:39.521 --> 0:09:41.481 I'm going to learn something new like the next person. 0:09:42.201 --> 0:09:45.241 In a professional sense, I just keep thinking back to 0:09:46.041 --> 0:09:50.961 I was a young seventeen year old that knew nothing 0:09:51.081 --> 0:09:53.401 and started out and somebody took a punt on me 0:09:53.561 --> 0:09:56.881 and invested in me, and that's what you do in return. 0:09:57.201 --> 0:09:59.521 And that's what I keep thinking of every new person 0:09:59.561 --> 0:10:02.601 that comes through our door and is starting their career 0:10:02.801 --> 0:10:04.801 or everybody starts somewhere. 0:10:05.361 --> 0:10:08.441 Totally so important. I mean, just when you said seventeen 0:10:08.521 --> 0:10:10.961 then I laughed myself because I'm like, I think I 0:10:11.001 --> 0:10:13.001 was on a Kentiquy tour about then. I was like, 0:10:13.081 --> 0:10:15.081 so do you look back now? Do you feel like 0:10:15.281 --> 0:10:16.881 look essentially a later question I have, but I have 0:10:16.881 --> 0:10:18.761 to ask it now. A lot of people I talk to, 0:10:19.201 --> 0:10:22.881 particularly women and successful high profile roles, say to me, 0:10:22.961 --> 0:10:24.681 you can't have it or there's always a price you 0:10:24.721 --> 0:10:26.201 pay for the success that they've had. 0:10:26.281 --> 0:10:28.921 Do you feel that, Oh, No, I don't. Life's all 0:10:28.921 --> 0:10:32.281 about choices, and you make the different choices at different 0:10:32.281 --> 0:10:35.081 times in your life. You know, I was finishing school 0:10:35.121 --> 0:10:37.961 and starting a job. All of my friends were going 0:10:38.001 --> 0:10:40.441 to schoolies on the Gold Coast and I wasn't because 0:10:40.481 --> 0:10:41.441 I was starting a job. 0:10:41.761 --> 0:10:43.281 Do I regret that? Not? 0:10:43.401 --> 0:10:45.641 Really, that was a choice we made at the time, 0:10:46.201 --> 0:10:47.961 and that was what was right at the time. And 0:10:48.481 --> 0:10:52.161 I think life's full of different compromises. You just make 0:10:52.201 --> 0:10:54.281 the choice for yourself and your family. 0:10:54.401 --> 0:10:57.161 And your career and all of those different aspects of 0:10:57.161 --> 0:10:58.601 your life as it presents itself. 0:10:58.801 --> 0:11:00.961 Well, obviously you're mum too. I believe to have two 0:11:01.041 --> 0:11:01.641 daughter daughters. 0:11:01.721 --> 0:11:02.321 Yeah, yeah, they. 0:11:02.241 --> 0:11:04.361 Would have been you know, babies doing the sort of 0:11:04.441 --> 0:11:05.281 growth parts of your case. 0:11:05.361 --> 0:11:09.081 Yeah, as well as all that challenging oh at different times. Yeah, absolutely. 0:11:09.281 --> 0:11:13.521 I reflect on what life is like today for working 0:11:13.601 --> 0:11:18.401 parents versus what life was like when we had our children. 0:11:19.041 --> 0:11:21.721 There was no work from home, no availability. There wasn't 0:11:21.721 --> 0:11:24.601 that flexibility to come and go. You know, we're a 0:11:24.721 --> 0:11:28.761 very flexible workplace and you don't have to be in 0:11:28.881 --> 0:11:31.801 by eight thirty, you don't have to leave five or whatever, 0:11:31.881 --> 0:11:33.641 so you can come and go and be very flexible. 0:11:33.841 --> 0:11:37.281 When I first have children, it was you actually have 0:11:37.361 --> 0:11:40.401 to be in the office five days a week, notwithstanding 0:11:40.481 --> 0:11:44.841 that you might work reduced hours was available, but going well, 0:11:44.841 --> 0:11:46.641 I have to pay for daycare five days a week, 0:11:46.721 --> 0:11:48.921 full days. I don't get a discount for that. So 0:11:48.921 --> 0:11:50.761 you've got to weigh up all of those different options. 0:11:50.761 --> 0:11:53.281 So it was a lot more rigid back when our 0:11:53.281 --> 0:11:55.201 girls were born and they were little, and you know 0:11:55.281 --> 0:11:58.121 those mornings you drop off at daycare at six thirty 0:11:58.161 --> 0:11:59.841 and you'd be the first one was there and the 0:11:59.921 --> 0:12:03.041 last one down and let you. 0:12:03.801 --> 0:12:04.121 Trouble. 0:12:04.521 --> 0:12:07.601 No, I agree. I think there's definitely a huge improvement 0:12:07.641 --> 0:12:10.321 in organizations. Maybe yeah, still some not there. So it's 0:12:10.321 --> 0:12:12.201 great to hear that. So PwC is definitely leading the 0:12:12.241 --> 0:12:15.641 way there. So when you started, culture wise, what kind 0:12:15.681 --> 0:12:18.161 of leadership was modeled and rewarded back then, we're going 0:12:18.201 --> 0:12:19.881 back thirty years, Like, looking at that. 0:12:19.921 --> 0:12:24.761 It was definitely a work hard, play hard culture and leadership. 0:12:25.281 --> 0:12:27.961 It was still very male dominated. That's just a fact. 0:12:28.121 --> 0:12:30.081 I think that just brings with it a different style 0:12:30.121 --> 0:12:32.521 of leadership to what you probably see today where we've 0:12:32.521 --> 0:12:37.001 got more diverse workforces and sort of more diverse people 0:12:37.401 --> 0:12:40.441 in leadership roles. It was definitely your work hard. 0:12:40.601 --> 0:12:40.841 Yeah. 0:12:40.961 --> 0:12:42.681 Yeah, And I know this myself back when I was 0:12:42.721 --> 0:12:45.401 in a corporate role. Sometimes to have a voice at 0:12:45.401 --> 0:12:47.641 the table, I feel like I had to adopt more 0:12:47.641 --> 0:12:50.401 maskul style in order to be heard. And I know 0:12:50.481 --> 0:12:53.281 I don't do that now, but I used to do that. Yeah, 0:12:53.281 --> 0:12:55.121 it felt like that was the only way forward given 0:12:55.161 --> 0:12:56.881 your tenure there. And do you feel like that's something 0:12:56.921 --> 0:12:57.521 you had to do as well? 0:12:57.561 --> 0:12:58.121 At times? 0:12:58.441 --> 0:13:00.721 I think at times you probably had to learn to 0:13:00.881 --> 0:13:03.921 be a louder voice in the room, although I once 0:13:03.961 --> 0:13:06.721 had somebody say to me, you don't have to be 0:13:06.841 --> 0:13:09.001 the loudest person in the room. You just have to 0:13:09.041 --> 0:13:12.361 make sure that what you're contributing is valuable. So that 0:13:12.521 --> 0:13:15.681 helps to change that dial of do you have to 0:13:15.721 --> 0:13:19.161 be the loudest person or do you just have to 0:13:19.401 --> 0:13:21.081 mean what you say, say what you're going to do, 0:13:21.241 --> 0:13:24.201 and do exactly that and lead by your actions more so? 0:13:24.921 --> 0:13:27.841 Okay, so when your confidence does take your head, how 0:13:27.841 --> 0:13:30.241 do you reset? Do you have rich al things that 0:13:30.281 --> 0:13:30.641 you do. 0:13:31.721 --> 0:13:33.921 Probably go and do a bit of exercise and just 0:13:34.041 --> 0:13:36.641 kind of get that tension out of the system. Got 0:13:36.641 --> 0:13:39.641 a great supportive family that pump you up. I've got 0:13:39.641 --> 0:13:43.121 some great colleagues and peers that help pump you up 0:13:43.161 --> 0:13:45.441 and give you that pat on the back that says 0:13:45.601 --> 0:13:47.201 it'll be okay, yeah, be okay. 0:13:47.321 --> 0:13:47.841 Yeah. 0:13:47.921 --> 0:13:50.761 It's definitely that network, isn't it that you've got around you? 0:13:51.321 --> 0:13:54.881 When we talk about authenticity, For me, authenticity my description 0:13:55.121 --> 0:13:58.361 is that the opportunity for connection exceeds the fear of rejection. 0:13:58.961 --> 0:14:01.721 Do you have a struggle being completely authentic, like are 0:14:01.761 --> 0:14:04.161 there times where the fear of being rejected for saying 0:14:04.161 --> 0:14:07.441 what you want to say, you think, overrides you really 0:14:07.481 --> 0:14:08.401 saying what you want. 0:14:09.161 --> 0:14:12.321 I think I've gotten better at that as a you get. 0:14:12.201 --> 0:14:15.361 Older and you grow in your career. 0:14:15.601 --> 0:14:18.481 For a period there, you're always, or it was always 0:14:18.481 --> 0:14:19.721 a little bit hesitant to. 0:14:19.881 --> 0:14:23.561 Really speak out or speak up those sorts of things 0:14:23.601 --> 0:14:26.401 for that fear of somebody might not like me or 0:14:26.441 --> 0:14:29.081 agree with me. But I think as you learn to 0:14:29.121 --> 0:14:33.161 deal with those scenarios, you get better at it. I 0:14:33.201 --> 0:14:35.521 really now feel if I'm not speaking my mind or 0:14:35.521 --> 0:14:38.721 if I'm not sharing my views, people might not agree 0:14:38.721 --> 0:14:41.081 with them, and I'm totally fine with that. But if 0:14:41.121 --> 0:14:44.841 I don't contribute something that is meaningful to me, I 0:14:44.841 --> 0:14:46.761 don't know whether it might be meaningful to other people. 0:14:46.801 --> 0:14:49.681 And so you're sort of doing everybody else. I'm not 0:14:49.681 --> 0:14:51.881 saying my ideas are great or the best or whatever, 0:14:51.921 --> 0:14:55.401 but you might be doing somebody else a disservice because 0:14:55.801 --> 0:14:57.401 there might be five other people in a room that 0:14:57.521 --> 0:14:59.601 might think exactly the same as you, and you're the 0:14:59.601 --> 0:15:00.801 only one that's going to say it. 0:15:00.961 --> 0:15:04.921 So sometimes that responsibility is very well. 0:15:05.281 --> 0:15:08.441 Yeah, age, yes, totally agree like I think that naturally 0:15:08.441 --> 0:15:11.401 helps right and experience. I'd love to feel like we 0:15:11.441 --> 0:15:13.481 could help people younger to be able to get their 0:15:13.521 --> 0:15:16.561 place quicker. Yeah, can spend your twenties and your thirties 0:15:17.161 --> 0:15:18.561 not saying what you want to say at the table 0:15:18.561 --> 0:15:20.721 bit embarrassed, not wanting to be you know, and being 0:15:20.801 --> 0:15:23.201 judging me. I remember sitting in my first executive like, well, 0:15:23.201 --> 0:15:26.001 my senior leadership team meeting, and this person's presenting and 0:15:26.041 --> 0:15:28.161 no one understood a word of what person's presenting, right, 0:15:28.201 --> 0:15:29.961 but no one wanted to say thank you. 0:15:30.121 --> 0:15:30.761 And as soon as. 0:15:30.721 --> 0:15:32.521 Someone's the confience to say that doesn'tually make sense to 0:15:32.521 --> 0:15:34.681 make can you explain? And if it's like relief, But 0:15:34.721 --> 0:15:37.321 it's just that constant wanting to prove yourself. 0:15:37.361 --> 0:15:39.921 And you know, I think we often hear from people 0:15:40.001 --> 0:15:42.401 that say, just be more confident. Yeah, And that's a 0:15:42.441 --> 0:15:44.801 really easy thing for somebody else to say, but it's 0:15:44.801 --> 0:15:47.441 a really hard thing for the person who's not feeling 0:15:47.481 --> 0:15:50.761 confident to be confident. And so, well, how do I 0:15:50.801 --> 0:15:53.281 be more confident? And that's where I think others have 0:15:53.321 --> 0:15:56.361 got a lot to offer those people to say, I 0:15:56.401 --> 0:15:59.361 believe in you, You've got this. I know you understand 0:15:59.721 --> 0:16:01.361 whatever it is. I know you've got some. 0:16:01.241 --> 0:16:02.521 Great ideas about this. 0:16:02.881 --> 0:16:05.681 Please share them, you know, and just encourag each people 0:16:06.161 --> 0:16:09.641 rather than saying be more confident. That's easier said than done. 0:16:09.681 --> 0:16:13.361 I completely agree. I think that the authenticity will breed 0:16:13.761 --> 0:16:16.201 when you're being encouraged by others to be it. I 0:16:16.201 --> 0:16:18.601 don't think we encourage people enough to be you know, 0:16:18.641 --> 0:16:20.681 so I think that's great, great tip. So if I 0:16:20.801 --> 0:16:24.161 asked ten random people at PwC about your leadership style, 0:16:24.641 --> 0:16:26.801 what would you hope they would say to me about you? 0:16:27.241 --> 0:16:30.081 I would hope that they would say, lead with care, 0:16:30.801 --> 0:16:34.561 you get what you seek, pretty open book, happy to 0:16:35.361 --> 0:16:39.361 and comfortable to challenge when something really doesn't sit right 0:16:39.521 --> 0:16:43.481 with my values or the firms values, to call that out. 0:16:43.961 --> 0:16:46.001 And somebody who is there for others. 0:16:46.481 --> 0:16:49.761 Yeah, okay, it's quite empathetic hearing kind of if they 0:16:49.801 --> 0:16:51.561 had to sort of say, whats her growth theory is 0:16:51.561 --> 0:16:53.721 still because we all have it? Yeah, yeah, what's those 0:16:53.761 --> 0:16:55.881 areas of leadership? They like, Ah, that's probably my thing. 0:16:56.041 --> 0:16:58.921 Maybe be more strategic and have those longer term go. 0:16:58.961 --> 0:17:03.601 I doubt that. Do you think people find you easy 0:17:03.601 --> 0:17:04.041 to get to know. 0:17:04.161 --> 0:17:07.281 I think some people do, some people don't. It's interesting, yeah, yeah, 0:17:07.401 --> 0:17:09.160 but I think you get that with everybody. You connect 0:17:09.241 --> 0:17:12.721 with some and you don't connect with others necessarily. I'm 0:17:13.041 --> 0:17:16.200