1 00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Appoche Production. 2 00:00:10,721 --> 00:00:14,441 Speaker 2: Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the CEO series. 3 00:00:14,681 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 2: This series, we launch into the new world of brave leadership. 4 00:00:18,601 --> 00:00:20,721 Speaker 1: Happy people create happy businesses. 5 00:00:20,561 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: True emotionally intelligent leadership. I've picked up vomit once on 6 00:00:24,241 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 2: OW about our fourth flight and everybody thought, well, if 7 00:00:26,641 --> 00:00:28,161 Speaker 2: it's good enough for him, I can do it. 8 00:00:28,201 --> 00:00:28,401 Speaker 1: Now. 9 00:00:28,481 --> 00:00:31,601 Speaker 2: We will be joined by culture and leadership experts and 10 00:00:31,641 --> 00:00:35,441 Speaker 2: some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth 11 00:00:35,521 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 2: behind their brave leadership journeys. Today I am thrilled to 12 00:00:39,281 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 2: be joined by Managing partner at PwC Queensland, Samantha Vidler. 13 00:00:43,681 --> 00:00:46,721 Speaker 2: PwC being one of the world's largest professional service firms, 14 00:00:46,801 --> 00:00:49,321 Speaker 2: with over three hundred and sixty four thousand people across 15 00:00:49,361 --> 00:00:52,241 Speaker 2: one hundred fifty countries, advising many of the world's most 16 00:00:52,241 --> 00:00:56,401 Speaker 2: influential organizations on everything from audit assurance to strategy, tax 17 00:00:56,441 --> 00:01:00,161 Speaker 2: and transformation. So part of what initiated my request to 18 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,481 Speaker 2: want to interview Sam was obviously when I heard that 19 00:01:02,521 --> 00:01:05,481 Speaker 2: you'd been with PwC for thirty years. First of all, 20 00:01:05,481 --> 00:01:07,041 Speaker 2: I didn't believe because I was like, how do you 21 00:01:07,081 --> 00:01:08,441 Speaker 2: look like that and you've been there for thirty years. 22 00:01:08,441 --> 00:01:10,521 Speaker 2: I don't know if that's possible, but I really was 23 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,761 Speaker 2: fascinated to chat with you on what you've understood and 24 00:01:13,801 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 2: seen about your own leadership and what's out there over 25 00:01:16,241 --> 00:01:18,281 Speaker 2: this period. I haven't had a guess with a ten 26 00:01:18,321 --> 00:01:20,361 Speaker 2: you're like yours and I'm sure you get that a lot. Yeah, 27 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,401 Speaker 2: but it is a really interesting one I'd love to explore. Plus, 28 00:01:23,481 --> 00:01:26,481 Speaker 2: we are both part of the Goats Vinese team, so 29 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,521 Speaker 2: this is the Saint Viny's CEO sleepout, So I feel 30 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 2: like we both share a passion for using our influence 31 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,521 Speaker 2: for good. So I often start my interviews going back 32 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 2: to childhood because for me, in the space of leadership, 33 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,401 Speaker 2: a lot stems from when you were a kid, right 34 00:01:39,481 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 2: and what happened in that time. So you couldn't even 35 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 2: figure out where you were born. Were you born in Brazil? 36 00:01:43,721 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: Born in Victoria, Victoria? 37 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,441 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, all right, so tell me a bit about 38 00:01:48,441 --> 00:01:49,321 Speaker 2: those early days. 39 00:01:49,521 --> 00:01:53,121 Speaker 3: Always an outdoorsy family. We lived on sort of acreage 40 00:01:53,241 --> 00:01:56,001 Speaker 3: in Victoria, which is cool, and had a range of 41 00:01:56,041 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 3: different animals from time to time, very wide and diverse range. 42 00:02:00,321 --> 00:02:03,081 Speaker 3: But grew up really loving the outdoor life, the beach 43 00:02:03,201 --> 00:02:06,881 Speaker 3: and also grew up water skiing at Lake Yielden and 44 00:02:06,921 --> 00:02:09,921 Speaker 3: that was pretty cool. Siblings siblings won older sisters. 45 00:02:10,001 --> 00:02:12,201 Speaker 1: Yeah. Actually she's still in Victoria. 46 00:02:12,361 --> 00:02:14,081 Speaker 2: Yeah right. And so when you think about, like who 47 00:02:14,201 --> 00:02:16,681 Speaker 2: was your biggest influencer role model growing up. 48 00:02:16,761 --> 00:02:18,961 Speaker 1: I think it was really just around family. 49 00:02:19,201 --> 00:02:22,281 Speaker 3: Had parents that gave us an opportunity to do lots 50 00:02:22,281 --> 00:02:24,801 Speaker 3: of different things. Sink or swim, have a crack, I 51 00:02:24,841 --> 00:02:26,281 Speaker 3: have a go, have a go as one of my 52 00:02:26,361 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 3: favorite sayings or values, And so I think it was 53 00:02:29,641 --> 00:02:32,281 Speaker 3: really that make the most of your opportunities. You know, 54 00:02:32,281 --> 00:02:36,001 Speaker 3: when you're given really good opportunities to have good education 55 00:02:36,361 --> 00:02:38,881 Speaker 3: and grow up in a pretty stable household, you learn 56 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:39,521 Speaker 3: to value that. 57 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,121 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, okay, And I did read online that you 58 00:02:42,121 --> 00:02:44,001 Speaker 2: were the first of your family to tend university. 59 00:02:44,081 --> 00:02:45,961 Speaker 1: Is in their generation and that generation. 60 00:02:46,121 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 2: Yeah right. So the career that moved into accounting, I'm 61 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: assuming was this like your dream growing up as a 62 00:02:51,001 --> 00:02:51,481 Speaker 2: little girl. 63 00:02:52,721 --> 00:02:55,121 Speaker 1: I wanted to be a vet. 64 00:02:55,321 --> 00:02:55,641 Speaker 2: Youvet. 65 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,881 Speaker 3: I wasn't very good at biology. Going into accounting was 66 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,601 Speaker 3: just a kind of fell into it from school. The 67 00:03:01,641 --> 00:03:03,321 Speaker 3: reason I've been with the firm for so long is 68 00:03:03,321 --> 00:03:05,921 Speaker 3: because they hired me straight out of school, which was 69 00:03:06,081 --> 00:03:08,361 Speaker 3: a little bit unique at the time in terms of, 70 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:10,961 Speaker 3: you know, starting so young and not really knowing what 71 00:03:11,001 --> 00:03:13,841 Speaker 3: I was getting myself in for. I had an accounting 72 00:03:13,881 --> 00:03:16,561 Speaker 3: teacher that said, you're going okay at accounting? Have you 73 00:03:16,601 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 3: thought about going for this trainee ship? And I had 74 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,521 Speaker 3: no idea who the firm was, what. 75 00:03:21,441 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: It was all about. But he landed there and here 76 00:03:24,161 --> 00:03:24,841 Speaker 1: I am, now. 77 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 2: Okay, So you became if I'm correct, you became a partner. 78 00:03:27,001 --> 00:03:29,481 Speaker 1: At thirty, a little bit older than that early. 79 00:03:30,081 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, which is pretty bold by anyone's standards. So obviously, 80 00:03:33,001 --> 00:03:35,481 Speaker 2: you know my program is brave. My leadership programs we 81 00:03:35,561 --> 00:03:38,801 Speaker 2: talk about bold, resilient, authentic, vulnerable, empathetics. We kind of 82 00:03:38,801 --> 00:03:40,921 Speaker 2: like move around those topics. But when I think of 83 00:03:40,961 --> 00:03:45,001 Speaker 2: bold being so young, where did imposter syndrome come into 84 00:03:45,041 --> 00:03:46,601 Speaker 2: sort of that? Like, I guess you're in a playing 85 00:03:46,641 --> 00:03:49,521 Speaker 2: field with you know, some big people, some big personalities. 86 00:03:49,841 --> 00:03:51,801 Speaker 2: If I think of EWC, sometimes you think of that 87 00:03:51,921 --> 00:03:54,721 Speaker 2: very corporate structure, Yes, and yeah, thirty years ago it 88 00:03:54,881 --> 00:03:57,521 Speaker 2: was very much so. So how did you feel at 89 00:03:57,521 --> 00:03:57,921 Speaker 2: that time? 90 00:03:58,041 --> 00:04:00,761 Speaker 3: I think, like anybody starting out, I'd like to think 91 00:04:00,841 --> 00:04:04,401 Speaker 3: we're all pretty humble in terms of you don't know 92 00:04:04,401 --> 00:04:07,201 Speaker 3: what you don't know, and you're learning every single day. 93 00:04:07,401 --> 00:04:10,841 Speaker 3: And certainly back in those days, I think one of 94 00:04:10,881 --> 00:04:13,281 Speaker 3: the first partners I met, I called him mister Wilson 95 00:04:13,641 --> 00:04:16,641 Speaker 3: because you always used mister or there weren't a lot 96 00:04:16,681 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 3: of female partners at that time to look too. So 97 00:04:19,521 --> 00:04:22,841 Speaker 3: I think when you talk about imposter syndrome, certainly had 98 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,041 Speaker 3: it then, still have it today in certain regards. 99 00:04:26,201 --> 00:04:28,321 Speaker 1: I think if you ever get comfortable, you probably need 100 00:04:28,361 --> 00:04:30,121 Speaker 1: to move on and look through another challenge. 101 00:04:30,201 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a nice reframing that. I think a lot 102 00:04:31,761 --> 00:04:34,121 Speaker 2: of people avoid the idea like don't want to have 103 00:04:34,161 --> 00:04:37,601 Speaker 2: impositi syndrome, But maybe actually it's more about pushing you 104 00:04:37,641 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 2: to want to be better. 105 00:04:38,521 --> 00:04:38,721 Speaker 1: Yeah. 106 00:04:38,841 --> 00:04:40,121 Speaker 3: I think you learned to live with it, and I 107 00:04:40,161 --> 00:04:42,041 Speaker 3: don't think it ever goes away. Certainly for me, I 108 00:04:42,081 --> 00:04:44,561 Speaker 3: don't feel like it's ever gone away. There's still times 109 00:04:44,561 --> 00:04:46,521 Speaker 3: you think, what am I doing here? And do I 110 00:04:46,561 --> 00:04:50,321 Speaker 3: belong here? And am I worthy of being in amongst 111 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:51,561 Speaker 3: the people that you're meeting? 112 00:04:51,681 --> 00:04:54,281 Speaker 2: How do you reset yourself from that? How you let 113 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:55,161 Speaker 2: it not get on top of you? 114 00:04:55,801 --> 00:04:57,441 Speaker 1: Oh that's a gee whiz. 115 00:04:57,921 --> 00:05:00,121 Speaker 3: I think you take those small little moments of the 116 00:05:00,161 --> 00:05:03,361 Speaker 3: pad on the back, or the encouragement that others might 117 00:05:03,401 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 3: give you, or the end of the day you perk 118 00:05:06,121 --> 00:05:08,841 Speaker 3: yourself up and go, no, no, I'm here. I've got 119 00:05:08,841 --> 00:05:10,921 Speaker 3: to face into this one and give it a red 120 00:05:10,961 --> 00:05:11,281 Speaker 3: hot Go. 121 00:05:11,681 --> 00:05:13,481 Speaker 2: Are you good at self compassion? 122 00:05:14,641 --> 00:05:15,761 Speaker 1: Oh? Probably not. 123 00:05:15,841 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 2: I don't think I've met anyone yet, because it is 124 00:05:17,481 --> 00:05:18,001 Speaker 2: a question. 125 00:05:18,521 --> 00:05:20,241 Speaker 4: I think we're terrible at it as human beings, Like 126 00:05:20,281 --> 00:05:22,561 Speaker 4: we're really good at giving that to others, we really 127 00:05:22,601 --> 00:05:25,241 Speaker 4: find it difficult to have that narrative to us. Absolutely, so, 128 00:05:25,961 --> 00:05:28,601 Speaker 4: I guess how do you then, And particularly thinking about 129 00:05:28,641 --> 00:05:31,401 Speaker 4: your early career, how did you back yourself when stakes 130 00:05:31,401 --> 00:05:33,721 Speaker 4: were high, like you had to go in and you know, 131 00:05:33,761 --> 00:05:36,921 Speaker 4: present something or challenge something when you are young and 132 00:05:36,961 --> 00:05:37,441 Speaker 4: a female. 133 00:05:37,761 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that came from the upbringing 134 00:05:41,521 --> 00:05:43,841 Speaker 3: of you've just got to have a go and you've 135 00:05:43,841 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 3: got to put your best foot forward. If a job's 136 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,681 Speaker 3: worth doing, you do it to the best of your ability. 137 00:05:49,121 --> 00:05:52,041 Speaker 3: And I always think back to that and go, if 138 00:05:52,081 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 3: I'm going to do something, I'm going to give it 139 00:05:53,481 --> 00:05:56,481 Speaker 3: my all and if it works, it works, and if 140 00:05:56,521 --> 00:05:58,321 Speaker 3: it doesn't, I'm not a brain surgeon. 141 00:05:58,361 --> 00:05:59,121 Speaker 1: No one's going to die. 142 00:05:59,241 --> 00:06:01,361 Speaker 3: I've made a few mistakes over my time, and you 143 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,201 Speaker 3: dust yourself off and get back up. 144 00:06:03,521 --> 00:06:07,001 Speaker 2: But that sort of gret to Nash mindsetting. Okay, Look, 145 00:06:07,041 --> 00:06:08,961 Speaker 2: when it comes to bold, bold for me is a 146 00:06:09,041 --> 00:06:12,081 Speaker 2: thing I must do right. So it's leaning into the uncomfortable, 147 00:06:12,281 --> 00:06:13,841 Speaker 2: having those feelings come up. When you're like, oh, it 148 00:06:13,841 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: doesn't feel good, but there's the thing I must do. 149 00:06:15,361 --> 00:06:17,161 Speaker 2: Then I got to lean into it. So how do 150 00:06:17,201 --> 00:06:19,281 Speaker 2: you keep pushing yourself to find the limits of your 151 00:06:19,361 --> 00:06:22,361 Speaker 2: uncomfortable When you beat an organization for thirty years and 152 00:06:22,401 --> 00:06:23,521 Speaker 2: you know this business so well. 153 00:06:23,801 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 3: Oh, I think the organization in itself, the firm, always 154 00:06:27,681 --> 00:06:31,161 Speaker 3: gives you different opportunities, and so you never get comfortable. 155 00:06:31,521 --> 00:06:34,321 Speaker 3: You're always doing something different. There's always something new to learn. 156 00:06:34,841 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 3: The industry is always changing, the demands from our clients 157 00:06:38,761 --> 00:06:42,681 Speaker 3: are always changing. The world is changing. So at a 158 00:06:42,681 --> 00:06:44,921 Speaker 3: point in time, I think I know the organization inside 159 00:06:44,961 --> 00:06:48,481 Speaker 3: and out after thirty years, But the organization doesn't stand still, 160 00:06:48,521 --> 00:06:49,641 Speaker 3: and so neither do you. 161 00:06:49,681 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: In your own way, you have to keep learning and 162 00:06:51,841 --> 00:06:52,521 Speaker 1: keep keeping up. 163 00:06:52,641 --> 00:06:54,841 Speaker 2: What about personally, do you see set yourself personal goals 164 00:06:54,841 --> 00:06:56,601 Speaker 2: to keep not really. 165 00:06:56,921 --> 00:06:59,761 Speaker 1: I'm not a massive goal set. People talk about, oh, 166 00:06:59,761 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: what's your five. 167 00:07:00,361 --> 00:07:03,601 Speaker 3: Year plan or what's your long term goals? That's just 168 00:07:03,601 --> 00:07:04,521 Speaker 3: not who I am. 169 00:07:04,361 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 2: I live in the moment, good honesty, Like I don't 170 00:07:06,761 --> 00:07:09,441 Speaker 2: think I was of for everybody. Yeah sometimes, but. 171 00:07:09,401 --> 00:07:11,921 Speaker 1: Maybe twelve months out that's as much as I could. Probably. 172 00:07:11,961 --> 00:07:13,801 Speaker 2: You know, what min uncomfortable is going to networking events, 173 00:07:13,841 --> 00:07:14,601 Speaker 2: which is where I met you. 174 00:07:14,681 --> 00:07:15,401 Speaker 1: Like it, won't. 175 00:07:15,481 --> 00:07:16,281 Speaker 2: I do not like going. 176 00:07:16,321 --> 00:07:19,161 Speaker 1: That is I've had to learn to get come. 177 00:07:19,281 --> 00:07:20,881 Speaker 2: I reckon so much more of it. Like many of 178 00:07:20,921 --> 00:07:24,561 Speaker 2: us are all standing there deeply controvert at heart. Yeah, 179 00:07:24,561 --> 00:07:26,521 Speaker 2: I mean I'm not, but I just don't like those things. 180 00:07:26,561 --> 00:07:28,081 Speaker 2: I don't know why. Then it might make you feel 181 00:07:28,081 --> 00:07:30,321 Speaker 2: so uncomfortable, but I continue to do it because I 182 00:07:30,361 --> 00:07:31,641 Speaker 2: think we're doing something uncomfortable. 183 00:07:31,641 --> 00:07:34,041 Speaker 1: Probably are last week, So I'm doing something uncomfortable right now. 184 00:07:34,201 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 2: You are doing this as your first podcaus I love that. Yeah, okay, 185 00:07:36,801 --> 00:07:38,441 Speaker 2: if we look at your thirty years, so it gets 186 00:07:38,441 --> 00:07:41,041 Speaker 2: the big fundamental questions, well, what kept you here? What's 187 00:07:41,121 --> 00:07:43,801 Speaker 2: kept you here? And what's changed dramatically over that time 188 00:07:43,841 --> 00:07:45,481 Speaker 2: that's kept you challenge and interested? 189 00:07:45,761 --> 00:07:48,481 Speaker 3: Yep, I've had the privilege of working in different offices. 190 00:07:48,561 --> 00:07:51,441 Speaker 3: So started in Melbourne, spent a few years in Canberra, 191 00:07:51,561 --> 00:07:54,201 Speaker 3: spent a couple of years in Townsville and now Brisbane. 192 00:07:54,321 --> 00:07:58,001 Speaker 3: So I guess in a way, each move was like 193 00:07:58,161 --> 00:08:00,801 Speaker 3: starting a new job in a way. So there were 194 00:08:00,881 --> 00:08:05,281 Speaker 3: challenges around a new market, new clients, new people, get 195 00:08:05,321 --> 00:08:07,681 Speaker 3: to know within the firm, all of those sorts of things. 196 00:08:07,681 --> 00:08:10,081 Speaker 3: So I guess where they talk about people have different 197 00:08:10,121 --> 00:08:13,641 Speaker 3: jobs across their careers, it sort of feels like I've 198 00:08:13,681 --> 00:08:18,241 Speaker 3: had that which keeps you engage. It's actually been brilliant 199 00:08:18,281 --> 00:08:21,521 Speaker 3: in terms of knowing a lot of people within the firm, 200 00:08:21,561 --> 00:08:24,201 Speaker 3: which is wonderful when you think about how your collaboration, 201 00:08:24,841 --> 00:08:28,161 Speaker 3: how we work nationally and internationally, and that sort of stuff. 202 00:08:28,241 --> 00:08:31,361 Speaker 1: So that's kept me engaged. Fundamentally. 203 00:08:31,401 --> 00:08:34,721 Speaker 3: I have a love of learning, so my job requires 204 00:08:34,761 --> 00:08:37,601 Speaker 3: me to keep learning and keep providing advice to clients. 205 00:08:37,681 --> 00:08:40,721 Speaker 3: So I'm learning as much as everybody else is. So 206 00:08:41,561 --> 00:08:43,041 Speaker 3: and my clients just love my clients. 207 00:08:43,121 --> 00:08:45,841 Speaker 2: You must built some beautiful relationships over this period. They 208 00:08:45,921 --> 00:08:47,521 Speaker 2: must be like family, some of them. I mean, you've 209 00:08:47,881 --> 00:08:48,481 Speaker 2: seen people. 210 00:08:48,481 --> 00:08:50,401 Speaker 3: Feels like a lot of them feel like family, and 211 00:08:50,441 --> 00:08:52,201 Speaker 3: we want to sort of start talking about the royal 212 00:08:52,281 --> 00:08:53,921 Speaker 3: we and we've done this and we've done that, and 213 00:08:53,961 --> 00:08:54,881 Speaker 3: you go hang on a minute. 214 00:08:54,801 --> 00:08:57,681 Speaker 2: Yeah, which obviously to me, like relationships are just the 215 00:08:57,721 --> 00:09:00,721 Speaker 2: critical part of a great organization and culture. But how 216 00:09:00,761 --> 00:09:02,521 Speaker 2: does trust it with you? Like, how does trust play 217 00:09:02,521 --> 00:09:02,961 Speaker 2: out with you? 218 00:09:03,041 --> 00:09:05,561 Speaker 3: Trust is a two way street, so you get a 219 00:09:05,601 --> 00:09:08,241 Speaker 3: good feel for people early on, you do have to 220 00:09:08,241 --> 00:09:11,761 Speaker 3: build that trust over time, that really true trusts, that 221 00:09:11,841 --> 00:09:15,681 Speaker 3: really deep seated. Your client trusts you, and you trust 222 00:09:15,961 --> 00:09:18,641 Speaker 3: your client, You trust your coworkers and all that. 223 00:09:18,521 --> 00:09:21,841 Speaker 1: Sort of stuff. So it is something to be earned 224 00:09:21,881 --> 00:09:22,441 Speaker 1: over time. 225 00:09:22,521 --> 00:09:25,441 Speaker 2: I think do you find that showing vulnerability is that 226 00:09:25,561 --> 00:09:27,441 Speaker 2: harder to do as you get more senior in the organization. 227 00:09:27,641 --> 00:09:29,721 Speaker 3: I think for some people it is. I'm a pretty 228 00:09:29,721 --> 00:09:32,361 Speaker 3: open book. What you see is what you get type 229 00:09:32,401 --> 00:09:36,281 Speaker 3: thing with most people. So I think we're all human, right, 230 00:09:36,481 --> 00:09:39,481 Speaker 3: So I'm going to make mistakes like the next person. 231 00:09:39,521 --> 00:09:41,481 Speaker 3: I'm going to learn something new like the next person. 232 00:09:42,201 --> 00:09:45,241 Speaker 3: In a professional sense, I just keep thinking back to 233 00:09:46,041 --> 00:09:50,961 Speaker 3: I was a young seventeen year old that knew nothing 234 00:09:51,081 --> 00:09:53,401 Speaker 3: and started out and somebody took a punt on me 235 00:09:53,561 --> 00:09:56,881 Speaker 3: and invested in me, and that's what you do in return. 236 00:09:57,201 --> 00:09:59,521 Speaker 3: And that's what I keep thinking of every new person 237 00:09:59,561 --> 00:10:02,601 Speaker 3: that comes through our door and is starting their career 238 00:10:02,801 --> 00:10:04,801 Speaker 3: or everybody starts somewhere. 239 00:10:05,361 --> 00:10:08,441 Speaker 2: Totally so important. I mean, just when you said seventeen 240 00:10:08,521 --> 00:10:10,961 Speaker 2: then I laughed myself because I'm like, I think I 241 00:10:11,001 --> 00:10:13,001 Speaker 2: was on a Kentiquy tour about then. I was like, 242 00:10:13,081 --> 00:10:15,081 Speaker 2: so do you look back now? Do you feel like 243 00:10:15,281 --> 00:10:16,881 Speaker 2: look essentially a later question I have, but I have 244 00:10:16,881 --> 00:10:18,761 Speaker 2: to ask it now. A lot of people I talk to, 245 00:10:19,201 --> 00:10:22,881 Speaker 2: particularly women and successful high profile roles, say to me, 246 00:10:22,961 --> 00:10:24,681 Speaker 2: you can't have it or there's always a price you 247 00:10:24,721 --> 00:10:26,201 Speaker 2: pay for the success that they've had. 248 00:10:26,281 --> 00:10:28,921 Speaker 3: Do you feel that, Oh, No, I don't. Life's all 249 00:10:28,921 --> 00:10:32,281 Speaker 3: about choices, and you make the different choices at different 250 00:10:32,281 --> 00:10:35,081 Speaker 3: times in your life. You know, I was finishing school 251 00:10:35,121 --> 00:10:37,961 Speaker 3: and starting a job. All of my friends were going 252 00:10:38,001 --> 00:10:40,441 Speaker 3: to schoolies on the Gold Coast and I wasn't because 253 00:10:40,481 --> 00:10:41,441 Speaker 3: I was starting a job. 254 00:10:41,761 --> 00:10:43,281 Speaker 1: Do I regret that? Not? 255 00:10:43,401 --> 00:10:45,641 Speaker 3: Really, that was a choice we made at the time, 256 00:10:46,201 --> 00:10:47,961 Speaker 3: and that was what was right at the time. And 257 00:10:48,481 --> 00:10:52,161 Speaker 3: I think life's full of different compromises. You just make 258 00:10:52,201 --> 00:10:54,281 Speaker 3: the choice for yourself and your family. 259 00:10:54,401 --> 00:10:57,161 Speaker 1: And your career and all of those different aspects of 260 00:10:57,161 --> 00:10:58,601 Speaker 1: your life as it presents itself. 261 00:10:58,801 --> 00:11:00,961 Speaker 2: Well, obviously you're mum too. I believe to have two 262 00:11:01,041 --> 00:11:01,641 Speaker 2: daughter daughters. 263 00:11:01,721 --> 00:11:02,321 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they. 264 00:11:02,241 --> 00:11:04,361 Speaker 2: Would have been you know, babies doing the sort of 265 00:11:04,441 --> 00:11:05,281 Speaker 2: growth parts of your case. 266 00:11:05,361 --> 00:11:09,081 Speaker 3: Yeah, as well as all that challenging oh at different times. Yeah, absolutely. 267 00:11:09,281 --> 00:11:13,521 Speaker 3: I reflect on what life is like today for working 268 00:11:13,601 --> 00:11:18,401 Speaker 3: parents versus what life was like when we had our children. 269 00:11:19,041 --> 00:11:21,721 Speaker 3: There was no work from home, no availability. There wasn't 270 00:11:21,721 --> 00:11:24,601 Speaker 3: that flexibility to come and go. You know, we're a 271 00:11:24,721 --> 00:11:28,761 Speaker 3: very flexible workplace and you don't have to be in 272 00:11:28,881 --> 00:11:31,801 Speaker 3: by eight thirty, you don't have to leave five or whatever, 273 00:11:31,881 --> 00:11:33,641 Speaker 3: so you can come and go and be very flexible. 274 00:11:33,841 --> 00:11:37,281 Speaker 3: When I first have children, it was you actually have 275 00:11:37,361 --> 00:11:40,401 Speaker 3: to be in the office five days a week, notwithstanding 276 00:11:40,481 --> 00:11:44,841 Speaker 3: that you might work reduced hours was available, but going well, 277 00:11:44,841 --> 00:11:46,641 Speaker 3: I have to pay for daycare five days a week, 278 00:11:46,721 --> 00:11:48,921 Speaker 3: full days. I don't get a discount for that. So 279 00:11:48,921 --> 00:11:50,761 Speaker 3: you've got to weigh up all of those different options. 280 00:11:50,761 --> 00:11:53,281 Speaker 3: So it was a lot more rigid back when our 281 00:11:53,281 --> 00:11:55,201 Speaker 3: girls were born and they were little, and you know 282 00:11:55,281 --> 00:11:58,121 Speaker 3: those mornings you drop off at daycare at six thirty 283 00:11:58,161 --> 00:11:59,841 Speaker 3: and you'd be the first one was there and the 284 00:11:59,921 --> 00:12:03,041 Speaker 3: last one down and let you. 285 00:12:03,801 --> 00:12:04,121 Speaker 1: Trouble. 286 00:12:04,521 --> 00:12:07,601 Speaker 2: No, I agree. I think there's definitely a huge improvement 287 00:12:07,641 --> 00:12:10,321 Speaker 2: in organizations. Maybe yeah, still some not there. So it's 288 00:12:10,321 --> 00:12:12,201 Speaker 2: great to hear that. So PwC is definitely leading the 289 00:12:12,241 --> 00:12:15,641 Speaker 2: way there. So when you started, culture wise, what kind 290 00:12:15,681 --> 00:12:18,161 Speaker 2: of leadership was modeled and rewarded back then, we're going 291 00:12:18,201 --> 00:12:19,881 Speaker 2: back thirty years, Like, looking at that. 292 00:12:19,921 --> 00:12:24,761 Speaker 3: It was definitely a work hard, play hard culture and leadership. 293 00:12:25,281 --> 00:12:27,961 Speaker 1: It was still very male dominated. That's just a fact. 294 00:12:28,121 --> 00:12:30,081 Speaker 3: I think that just brings with it a different style 295 00:12:30,121 --> 00:12:32,521 Speaker 3: of leadership to what you probably see today where we've 296 00:12:32,521 --> 00:12:37,001 Speaker 3: got more diverse workforces and sort of more diverse people 297 00:12:37,401 --> 00:12:40,441 Speaker 3: in leadership roles. It was definitely your work hard. 298 00:12:40,601 --> 00:12:40,841 Speaker 4: Yeah. 299 00:12:40,961 --> 00:12:42,681 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I know this myself back when I was 300 00:12:42,721 --> 00:12:45,401 Speaker 2: in a corporate role. Sometimes to have a voice at 301 00:12:45,401 --> 00:12:47,641 Speaker 2: the table, I feel like I had to adopt more 302 00:12:47,641 --> 00:12:50,401 Speaker 2: maskul style in order to be heard. And I know 303 00:12:50,481 --> 00:12:53,281 Speaker 2: I don't do that now, but I used to do that. Yeah, 304 00:12:53,281 --> 00:12:55,121 Speaker 2: it felt like that was the only way forward given 305 00:12:55,161 --> 00:12:56,881 Speaker 2: your tenure there. And do you feel like that's something 306 00:12:56,921 --> 00:12:57,521 Speaker 2: you had to do as well? 307 00:12:57,561 --> 00:12:58,121 Speaker 1: At times? 308 00:12:58,441 --> 00:13:00,721 Speaker 3: I think at times you probably had to learn to 309 00:13:00,881 --> 00:13:03,921 Speaker 3: be a louder voice in the room, although I once 310 00:13:03,961 --> 00:13:06,721 Speaker 3: had somebody say to me, you don't have to be 311 00:13:06,841 --> 00:13:09,001 Speaker 3: the loudest person in the room. You just have to 312 00:13:09,041 --> 00:13:12,361 Speaker 3: make sure that what you're contributing is valuable. So that 313 00:13:12,521 --> 00:13:15,681 Speaker 3: helps to change that dial of do you have to 314 00:13:15,721 --> 00:13:19,161 Speaker 3: be the loudest person or do you just have to 315 00:13:19,401 --> 00:13:21,081 Speaker 3: mean what you say, say what you're going to do, 316 00:13:21,241 --> 00:13:24,201 Speaker 3: and do exactly that and lead by your actions more so? 317 00:13:24,921 --> 00:13:27,841 Speaker 2: Okay, so when your confidence does take your head, how 318 00:13:27,841 --> 00:13:30,241 Speaker 2: do you reset? Do you have rich al things that 319 00:13:30,281 --> 00:13:30,641 Speaker 2: you do. 320 00:13:31,721 --> 00:13:33,921 Speaker 3: Probably go and do a bit of exercise and just 321 00:13:34,041 --> 00:13:36,641 Speaker 3: kind of get that tension out of the system. Got 322 00:13:36,641 --> 00:13:39,641 Speaker 3: a great supportive family that pump you up. I've got 323 00:13:39,641 --> 00:13:43,121 Speaker 3: some great colleagues and peers that help pump you up 324 00:13:43,161 --> 00:13:45,441 Speaker 3: and give you that pat on the back that says 325 00:13:45,601 --> 00:13:47,201 Speaker 3: it'll be okay, yeah, be okay. 326 00:13:47,321 --> 00:13:47,841 Speaker 1: Yeah. 327 00:13:47,921 --> 00:13:50,761 Speaker 2: It's definitely that network, isn't it that you've got around you? 328 00:13:51,321 --> 00:13:54,881 Speaker 2: When we talk about authenticity, For me, authenticity my description 329 00:13:55,121 --> 00:13:58,361 Speaker 2: is that the opportunity for connection exceeds the fear of rejection. 330 00:13:58,961 --> 00:14:01,721 Speaker 2: Do you have a struggle being completely authentic, like are 331 00:14:01,761 --> 00:14:04,161 Speaker 2: there times where the fear of being rejected for saying 332 00:14:04,161 --> 00:14:07,441 Speaker 2: what you want to say, you think, overrides you really 333 00:14:07,481 --> 00:14:08,401 Speaker 2: saying what you want. 334 00:14:09,161 --> 00:14:12,321 Speaker 1: I think I've gotten better at that as a you get. 335 00:14:12,201 --> 00:14:15,361 Speaker 3: Older and you grow in your career. 336 00:14:15,601 --> 00:14:18,481 Speaker 1: For a period there, you're always, or it was always 337 00:14:18,481 --> 00:14:19,721 Speaker 1: a little bit hesitant to. 338 00:14:19,881 --> 00:14:23,561 Speaker 3: Really speak out or speak up those sorts of things 339 00:14:23,601 --> 00:14:26,401 Speaker 3: for that fear of somebody might not like me or 340 00:14:26,441 --> 00:14:29,081 Speaker 3: agree with me. But I think as you learn to 341 00:14:29,121 --> 00:14:33,161 Speaker 3: deal with those scenarios, you get better at it. I 342 00:14:33,201 --> 00:14:35,521 Speaker 3: really now feel if I'm not speaking my mind or 343 00:14:35,521 --> 00:14:38,721 Speaker 3: if I'm not sharing my views, people might not agree 344 00:14:38,721 --> 00:14:41,081 Speaker 3: with them, and I'm totally fine with that. But if 345 00:14:41,121 --> 00:14:44,841 Speaker 3: I don't contribute something that is meaningful to me, I 346 00:14:44,841 --> 00:14:46,761 Speaker 3: don't know whether it might be meaningful to other people. 347 00:14:46,801 --> 00:14:49,681 Speaker 3: And so you're sort of doing everybody else. I'm not 348 00:14:49,681 --> 00:14:51,881 Speaker 3: saying my ideas are great or the best or whatever, 349 00:14:51,921 --> 00:14:55,401 Speaker 3: but you might be doing somebody else a disservice because 350 00:14:55,801 --> 00:14:57,401 Speaker 3: there might be five other people in a room that 351 00:14:57,521 --> 00:14:59,601 Speaker 3: might think exactly the same as you, and you're the 352 00:14:59,601 --> 00:15:00,801 Speaker 3: only one that's going to say it. 353 00:15:00,961 --> 00:15:04,921 Speaker 1: So sometimes that responsibility is very well. 354 00:15:05,281 --> 00:15:08,441 Speaker 2: Yeah, age, yes, totally agree like I think that naturally 355 00:15:08,441 --> 00:15:11,401 Speaker 2: helps right and experience. I'd love to feel like we 356 00:15:11,441 --> 00:15:13,481 Speaker 2: could help people younger to be able to get their 357 00:15:13,521 --> 00:15:16,561 Speaker 2: place quicker. Yeah, can spend your twenties and your thirties 358 00:15:17,161 --> 00:15:18,561 Speaker 2: not saying what you want to say at the table 359 00:15:18,561 --> 00:15:20,721 Speaker 2: bit embarrassed, not wanting to be you know, and being 360 00:15:20,801 --> 00:15:23,201 Speaker 2: judging me. I remember sitting in my first executive like, well, 361 00:15:23,201 --> 00:15:26,001 Speaker 2: my senior leadership team meeting, and this person's presenting and 362 00:15:26,041 --> 00:15:28,161 Speaker 2: no one understood a word of what person's presenting, right, 363 00:15:28,201 --> 00:15:29,961 Speaker 2: but no one wanted to say thank you. 364 00:15:30,121 --> 00:15:30,761 Speaker 1: And as soon as. 365 00:15:30,721 --> 00:15:32,521 Speaker 2: Someone's the confience to say that doesn'tually make sense to 366 00:15:32,521 --> 00:15:34,681 Speaker 2: make can you explain? And if it's like relief, But 367 00:15:34,721 --> 00:15:37,321 Speaker 2: it's just that constant wanting to prove yourself. 368 00:15:37,361 --> 00:15:39,921 Speaker 3: And you know, I think we often hear from people 369 00:15:40,001 --> 00:15:42,401 Speaker 3: that say, just be more confident. Yeah, And that's a 370 00:15:42,441 --> 00:15:44,801 Speaker 3: really easy thing for somebody else to say, but it's 371 00:15:44,801 --> 00:15:47,441 Speaker 3: a really hard thing for the person who's not feeling 372 00:15:47,481 --> 00:15:50,761 Speaker 3: confident to be confident. And so, well, how do I 373 00:15:50,801 --> 00:15:53,281 Speaker 3: be more confident? And that's where I think others have 374 00:15:53,321 --> 00:15:56,361 Speaker 3: got a lot to offer those people to say, I 375 00:15:56,401 --> 00:15:59,361 Speaker 3: believe in you, You've got this. I know you understand 376 00:15:59,721 --> 00:16:01,361 Speaker 3: whatever it is. I know you've got some. 377 00:16:01,241 --> 00:16:02,521 Speaker 1: Great ideas about this. 378 00:16:02,881 --> 00:16:05,681 Speaker 3: Please share them, you know, and just encourag each people 379 00:16:06,161 --> 00:16:09,641 Speaker 3: rather than saying be more confident. That's easier said than done. 380 00:16:09,681 --> 00:16:13,361 Speaker 2: I completely agree. I think that the authenticity will breed 381 00:16:13,761 --> 00:16:16,201 Speaker 2: when you're being encouraged by others to be it. I 382 00:16:16,201 --> 00:16:18,601 Speaker 2: don't think we encourage people enough to be you know, 383 00:16:18,641 --> 00:16:20,681 Speaker 2: so I think that's great, great tip. So if I 384 00:16:20,801 --> 00:16:24,161 Speaker 2: asked ten random people at PwC about your leadership style, 385 00:16:24,641 --> 00:16:26,801 Speaker 2: what would you hope they would say to me about you? 386 00:16:27,241 --> 00:16:30,081 Speaker 3: I would hope that they would say, lead with care, 387 00:16:30,801 --> 00:16:34,561 Speaker 3: you get what you seek, pretty open book, happy to 388 00:16:35,361 --> 00:16:39,361 Speaker 3: and comfortable to challenge when something really doesn't sit right 389 00:16:39,521 --> 00:16:43,481 Speaker 3: with my values or the firms values, to call that out. 390 00:16:43,961 --> 00:16:46,001 Speaker 3: And somebody who is there for others. 391 00:16:46,481 --> 00:16:49,761 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, it's quite empathetic hearing kind of if they 392 00:16:49,801 --> 00:16:51,561 Speaker 2: had to sort of say, whats her growth theory is 393 00:16:51,561 --> 00:16:53,721 Speaker 2: still because we all have it? Yeah, yeah, what's those 394 00:16:53,761 --> 00:16:55,881 Speaker 2: areas of leadership? They like, Ah, that's probably my thing. 395 00:16:56,041 --> 00:16:58,921 Speaker 1: Maybe be more strategic and have those longer term go. 396 00:16:58,961 --> 00:17:03,601 Speaker 2: I doubt that. Do you think people find you easy 397 00:17:03,601 --> 00:17:04,041 Speaker 2: to get to know. 398 00:17:04,161 --> 00:17:07,281 Speaker 3: I think some people do, some people don't. It's interesting, yeah, yeah, 399 00:17:07,401 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 3: but I think you get that with everybody. You connect 400 00:17:09,241 --> 00:17:12,721 Speaker 3: with some and you don't connect with others necessarily. I'm 401 00:17:13,041 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 3: pretty happy, go lucky kind of person, always see the 402 00:17:16,241 --> 00:17:19,201 Speaker 3: positive side, ever, the optimist. I think most people would 403 00:17:19,201 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 3: say I'm easy to get to know. 404 00:17:20,761 --> 00:17:23,241 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. I also think ego is a healthy part 405 00:17:23,281 --> 00:17:24,601 Speaker 2: of being a leader, right. I don't know a good 406 00:17:24,681 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 2: leader at the top who doesn't have a dose of 407 00:17:26,681 --> 00:17:30,201 Speaker 2: ego in there. But also, keeping in checks really important. 408 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:33,001 Speaker 2: So how do you keep your ego in check in 409 00:17:33,001 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 2: the sense of, you know, you've got promoted very young, 410 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,241 Speaker 2: you're in a very senior role, Like, how do you 411 00:17:36,321 --> 00:17:37,961 Speaker 2: keep that in check and stay grounded as your career 412 00:17:38,041 --> 00:17:38,721 Speaker 2: keeps rising. 413 00:17:38,921 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: Your children are pretty good for that. 414 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 3: I still feel like it's a massive privilege of what 415 00:17:45,681 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 3: I get to do every day. So to me, I 416 00:17:49,201 --> 00:17:52,681 Speaker 3: don't think I've got a huge ego. I certainly feel 417 00:17:52,761 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 3: proud about things that we've achieved as a firm and 418 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 3: things that our clients achieve, and personally you achieve, But 419 00:18:00,281 --> 00:18:03,041 Speaker 3: I'm not somebody who really try and shout that from 420 00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:06,241 Speaker 3: the rooftops or feel like I'm the most important. 421 00:18:06,241 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 2: Actually, I remember standing at an event with you. We 422 00:18:10,321 --> 00:18:12,681 Speaker 2: didn't really know to that well then and another couple 423 00:18:12,681 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 2: of people mingle over and have a chat and I 424 00:18:14,921 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 2: knew what your role was and who you were, but 425 00:18:16,721 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 2: the guy who asked and you just said that you 426 00:18:18,561 --> 00:18:20,281 Speaker 2: were the company you worked for. You didn't even mention 427 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,561 Speaker 2: your title. Yeah, so I think that's actually a beautiful example, 428 00:18:23,681 --> 00:18:26,321 Speaker 2: like you could have and had them probably trying to 429 00:18:26,521 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 2: win some business or something, and maybe you're avoiding that. 430 00:18:28,761 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 2: And I astually like your answer because I think the 431 00:18:30,681 --> 00:18:33,001 Speaker 2: word I like was you said the privilege. You still 432 00:18:33,001 --> 00:18:35,281 Speaker 2: obviously feel every day, proud of it. We should do 433 00:18:35,321 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 2: what you do. Yeah, maybe that's the point, right when 434 00:18:37,521 --> 00:18:41,001 Speaker 2: people stop feeling privileged and that role or proud, that's 435 00:18:41,001 --> 00:18:42,521 Speaker 2: where the ego kind of takes over. 436 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:44,121 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just true. I am. 437 00:18:44,281 --> 00:18:46,641 Speaker 2: I mean, you're a very measured person. I can see 438 00:18:46,681 --> 00:18:48,281 Speaker 2: that you say the truth and just speak sort of 439 00:18:48,281 --> 00:18:50,561 Speaker 2: what's in your mind. But look, we all make mistakes. 440 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 2: Was there any moment in your career you've had to 441 00:18:52,921 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 2: course correct when you realize you weren't showing up in 442 00:18:55,281 --> 00:18:56,361 Speaker 2: alignment with your values. 443 00:18:56,961 --> 00:19:01,161 Speaker 3: There's Certainly, moments where you get so caught up in 444 00:19:01,281 --> 00:19:06,441 Speaker 3: the juggernaut of things are really busy, and there's lots 445 00:19:06,481 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 3: of competing demands, and certainly you tend to get distracted 446 00:19:12,561 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 3: by the person who yells the loudest, and certainly that 447 00:19:16,441 --> 00:19:19,681 Speaker 3: makes you go in a certain direction where you otherwise 448 00:19:19,721 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 3: would like to be more things to more people. 449 00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:26,401 Speaker 1: But I think that's probably I think it's pretty ill man. 450 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, when you're under time pressure, you mean sort. 451 00:19:28,521 --> 00:19:30,921 Speaker 3: Of yeah, yeah, I mean there's lots of different things 452 00:19:30,921 --> 00:19:33,321 Speaker 3: that get thrown at you, and you're either kind of 453 00:19:33,321 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 3: a work pressure or home pressure or whatever it might be. 454 00:19:36,561 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 3: And I think it's really hard to stay measured, which 455 00:19:40,921 --> 00:19:42,681 Speaker 3: is what I like to do a lot of the time. 456 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:44,001 Speaker 1: That's when you make mistakes. 457 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 2: Is it easy if you'd met when you've made a. 458 00:19:45,681 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 3: Mistake easier now Earlier in your career, you go, oh, 459 00:19:48,961 --> 00:19:51,001 Speaker 3: it's like it's going to be career ending, or it's 460 00:19:51,041 --> 00:19:53,081 Speaker 3: going to be like it's just the most dramatic thing 461 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 3: in your life. And then you get through it and 462 00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 3: you go, okay, yep, yep. As I've gone through my career, 463 00:20:01,561 --> 00:20:04,321 Speaker 3: really tried to hone in on if I've made a mistake, 464 00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:07,761 Speaker 3: I'll app asolutely own it, because if the shoes on 465 00:20:07,761 --> 00:20:11,281 Speaker 3: the other foot, you don't like other people deflecting, or 466 00:20:11,801 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 3: if somebody else has made a mistake, I'd rather they 467 00:20:14,281 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 3: own it and we'll go okay, we'll work on it 468 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 3: and we'll move on. Draw a line in the sand. 469 00:20:19,201 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 3: And don't want to really hold people to their mistakes. 470 00:20:21,481 --> 00:20:23,561 Speaker 3: You want to see the opportunity and the positivity that 471 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 3: can come from learning from the experience or the issue 472 00:20:27,201 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 3: that you've made a mistake, Well, whatever it is, just 473 00:20:29,961 --> 00:20:30,561 Speaker 3: learn from it. 474 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 2: Is that easy to do In an organization that's so 475 00:20:32,681 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 2: successful and you know, not for its high performance and 476 00:20:35,801 --> 00:20:38,201 Speaker 2: delivering to absolutely how does that play out? 477 00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:41,321 Speaker 3: It's been a real journey over the years. I think 478 00:20:41,681 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 3: rewind back years ago, it was nobody wanted to make 479 00:20:44,481 --> 00:20:46,761 Speaker 3: a mistake. It was fear of God in your type. 480 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,761 Speaker 3: These days, as a firm, we've. 481 00:20:49,561 --> 00:20:51,041 Speaker 1: Come a really long way. 482 00:20:50,921 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 3: And certainly as a society, I think we've come a 483 00:20:53,761 --> 00:20:57,281 Speaker 3: really long way in being vulnerable and saying yep, we've 484 00:20:57,281 --> 00:20:59,881 Speaker 3: made a mistake. But the best way you can deal 485 00:20:59,921 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 3: with that is by rectifying it, admitting it, moving on going. 486 00:21:03,681 --> 00:21:04,921 Speaker 1: How do we make this right. 487 00:21:05,041 --> 00:21:07,521 Speaker 2: I've seen it all right, And a lot of organizations 488 00:21:07,561 --> 00:21:09,481 Speaker 2: were like that, the more of a command control kind 489 00:21:09,481 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 2: of style, and we're aught to the right thing. 490 00:21:10,681 --> 00:21:10,961 Speaker 1: That's free. 491 00:21:10,961 --> 00:21:14,441 Speaker 2: Typical, you're a large organization with that really strong reputation. 492 00:21:14,681 --> 00:21:16,241 Speaker 2: What have you seen? What are the things that you've 493 00:21:16,241 --> 00:21:19,721 Speaker 2: specifically seen that the company did to make that step change, 494 00:21:19,761 --> 00:21:21,321 Speaker 2: because you could have not it could have you know, 495 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:23,561 Speaker 2: said no, we're not going to that past. Yeah, particular leaders, 496 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 2: particular behaviors, voices. 497 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 3: Certainly, our culture has changed over the last few years 498 00:21:28,681 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 3: and really focused on great governance, great processes, procedures, those 499 00:21:33,761 --> 00:21:37,161 Speaker 3: sorts of things that you wrap around everyone to make 500 00:21:37,201 --> 00:21:42,161 Speaker 3: sure that everybody understands what our accountability and responsibilities are 501 00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 3: to both each other, the firm, our clients, those sorts 502 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,401 Speaker 3: of things. So really robust policies, procedures, governance, that sort 503 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,521 Speaker 3: of thing, And certainly people in various leadership roles very 504 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 3: very supportive of the culture of saying, Okay, if you've 505 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:04,041 Speaker 3: done everything, possible mistakes are happening, how do we deal 506 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 3: with that and what's the gravity of it, how do 507 00:22:06,761 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 3: we respond And just having that sort of safer environment 508 00:22:10,961 --> 00:22:14,121 Speaker 3: for people to be able to not feel that they 509 00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:15,681 Speaker 3: can't speak up early enough. 510 00:22:16,481 --> 00:22:19,001 Speaker 2: I read a stat the other day eighty seven percent 511 00:22:19,001 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 2: of people expect their leaders to provide them with personal 512 00:22:22,201 --> 00:22:24,761 Speaker 2: development support and you'll be able to deal with their 513 00:22:24,761 --> 00:22:26,801 Speaker 2: problems that they're bringing from home as well. Right, Which 514 00:22:26,801 --> 00:22:28,241 Speaker 2: is really interesting because a long time ago, when I 515 00:22:28,281 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 2: sort of talked about this topic, people like, not my problem, 516 00:22:30,481 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 2: it's not the company's problem, right, But now it kind 517 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,121 Speaker 2: of has become it because we've got this flexible hybrid. 518 00:22:35,241 --> 00:22:37,921 Speaker 2: You know, what do you see as the biggest challenges 519 00:22:37,961 --> 00:22:40,880 Speaker 2: and keeping employees retained in the organization happy outside of 520 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,121 Speaker 2: paying mega salary and you know all that, Yeah, from 521 00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 2: all that other culture side, what are you sort of 522 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 2: seeing as the biggest challenges. 523 00:22:47,721 --> 00:22:51,121 Speaker 3: The biggest challenges are certainly making sure that we understand 524 00:22:51,921 --> 00:22:55,721 Speaker 3: our team's home and work life, because they are such 525 00:22:55,721 --> 00:23:01,121 Speaker 3: a blend these days. Helping people navigate through different stages 526 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 3: in their lives from starting their careers. 527 00:23:04,441 --> 00:23:05,761 Speaker 1: Maybe it's having. 528 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:10,441 Speaker 3: Relationships, marriage, children, whatever that might look like for each 529 00:23:10,481 --> 00:23:14,361 Speaker 3: of our people, and just really bridging that gap between 530 00:23:14,681 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 3: You spend a lot of time working with each other, 531 00:23:17,281 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 3: and sometimes you spend more time working with people than 532 00:23:20,441 --> 00:23:23,321 Speaker 3: they do spend with their families or with their loved 533 00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 3: ones outside of work or their hobbies or whatever it 534 00:23:25,921 --> 00:23:29,281 Speaker 3: might be. So it's really the big challenge is helping 535 00:23:29,281 --> 00:23:32,481 Speaker 3: people find the right balance of what works for them. 536 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 3: Some people are workaholics, some people really like their flexibility. 537 00:23:36,481 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 3: It's just so diverse, really diverse. 538 00:23:38,921 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 2: Oh that's tricky, Yeah it is. 539 00:23:41,241 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right. 540 00:23:41,921 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 2: I think probably having those conversations earlier, you know what 541 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,961 Speaker 2: matters to people absolutely, Like I remember old interview processes. 542 00:23:47,961 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 2: No one ever asked you, like, what was you know? 543 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,161 Speaker 1: Nobody asked you what you did outside of them. 544 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 2: No, it wasn't really well of it really was that 545 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 2: versus tailoring your working life a bit more to it 546 00:23:56,441 --> 00:23:58,921 Speaker 2: works to people. I think is an interesting one. Wanted 547 00:23:58,921 --> 00:24:01,041 Speaker 2: to ask you about conflict because you don't strike me 548 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,761 Speaker 2: as a person who is in a high conflict kind 549 00:24:03,761 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 2: of character, but I could be wrong. How do you 550 00:24:05,801 --> 00:24:08,201 Speaker 2: handle things when people don't see things the same way 551 00:24:08,241 --> 00:24:09,801 Speaker 2: as you or don't care as much as you do. 552 00:24:10,041 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 3: When people don't care as much as I do, I 553 00:24:12,001 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 3: do struggle with that. You just have to peg yourself 554 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 3: back a little bit and just understand where other people 555 00:24:17,481 --> 00:24:19,961 Speaker 3: are coming from and that goes the same when people 556 00:24:19,961 --> 00:24:22,041 Speaker 3: don't agree with what I might want to do or 557 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,041 Speaker 3: I believe the right answer is, you just have to 558 00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:28,681 Speaker 3: unpack it and see all sides. Yeah, and then make 559 00:24:28,681 --> 00:24:31,321 Speaker 3: a call. If you're in that position where you're the 560 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:34,161 Speaker 3: person making the call, I usually really like to make 561 00:24:34,201 --> 00:24:38,161 Speaker 3: sure I'm taking on board and understanding other people's perspectives 562 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 3: then making an informed call. 563 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. 564 00:24:41,321 --> 00:24:41,561 Speaker 1: Yeah. 565 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 2: What about with difficult conversations, because I find that's the 566 00:24:43,921 --> 00:24:45,521 Speaker 2: other one that does no matter how long you're in 567 00:24:45,561 --> 00:24:48,441 Speaker 2: your career, for you know, having that conversation about performance 568 00:24:48,761 --> 00:24:51,801 Speaker 2: or letting somebody go yeah, still as uncomfortable as it was. 569 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,441 Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, yeah, absolutely, I think because for me it's 570 00:24:56,481 --> 00:24:59,801 Speaker 3: all about the person and if there's a performance issue, sure, 571 00:25:00,001 --> 00:25:03,241 Speaker 3: some things are black and white, and other things they're emotive. 572 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:04,481 Speaker 1: That makes it really. 573 00:25:04,241 --> 00:25:07,721 Speaker 3: Difficult when you're talk talking about people and humans and 574 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 3: decisions that might or outcomes that might really affect a 575 00:25:11,441 --> 00:25:14,561 Speaker 3: person and their families or their way of life. 576 00:25:14,441 --> 00:25:15,001 Speaker 1: That sort of stuff. 577 00:25:15,201 --> 00:25:20,721 Speaker 3: So what I try to do is make sure we're 578 00:25:20,761 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 3: being fair and reasonable coming into all of those conversations 579 00:25:23,961 --> 00:25:24,801 Speaker 3: from place of care. 580 00:25:25,481 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 2: So when we talk about empathy, how do you create 581 00:25:28,441 --> 00:25:30,281 Speaker 2: connection with the people that work for you, because obviously, 582 00:25:30,321 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 2: the more thing you get, I'm imagining you're distanced more 583 00:25:32,801 --> 00:25:34,481 Speaker 2: and more, like, how do you say, connected to their 584 00:25:34,521 --> 00:25:36,321 Speaker 2: real life and what's going on and so forth. 585 00:25:37,481 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 3: I have this scene where a lot to think that 586 00:25:39,281 --> 00:25:42,721 Speaker 3: I can converse somewhat with some of our young staff 587 00:25:42,721 --> 00:25:43,641 Speaker 3: who has the same age. 588 00:25:43,441 --> 00:25:46,041 Speaker 1: As my children. Oh, okay, technic. 589 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 3: So that's the lingo I get at home can be 590 00:25:49,721 --> 00:25:52,041 Speaker 3: translated to the lingo at work. It's about just getting 591 00:25:52,041 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 3: to know the people. 592 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,361 Speaker 2: Do you have time for that though? In your job? 593 00:25:54,481 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: Oh, you make time. You have to. 594 00:25:56,001 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 3: We're a people business, and whether that's your clients or 595 00:25:59,001 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 3: your team internally, you've definitely got to make time. It 596 00:26:01,521 --> 00:26:03,761 Speaker 3: is hard because there's only a certain amount of hours 597 00:26:03,761 --> 00:26:07,321 Speaker 3: in the day and everyone's got different roles and responsibilities 598 00:26:07,321 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 3: and things they've got to execute on. But trying to 599 00:26:09,441 --> 00:26:12,721 Speaker 3: make the time to connect with each person I think 600 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,961 Speaker 3: is really important. And then even if you don't one 601 00:26:16,001 --> 00:26:19,761 Speaker 3: on one connect, just having that awareness of understanding what's 602 00:26:19,801 --> 00:26:21,281 Speaker 3: going on through other people. 603 00:26:21,961 --> 00:26:25,481 Speaker 2: Yeah, and when you notice someone struggling, how do you 604 00:26:25,561 --> 00:26:26,321 Speaker 2: show up for them? 605 00:26:26,521 --> 00:26:29,801 Speaker 3: If it's something that I can help them with personally, 606 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,401 Speaker 3: then I will always endeavor to do so. If it's 607 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 3: something somebody else is helping them with, then it's just 608 00:26:35,041 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 3: being there for support and asking people what's going on 609 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 3: for you? 610 00:26:39,201 --> 00:26:41,321 Speaker 1: What can we do? I think we're really good at 611 00:26:41,321 --> 00:26:46,120 Speaker 1: responding to making sure people have the tools and resources 612 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: around them and the support around them that if there's 613 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 1: something that they want to improve on or want to 614 00:26:51,961 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: get better at, that we can help support with that. 615 00:26:54,321 --> 00:26:55,521 Speaker 2: What about when you're struggling. 616 00:26:56,041 --> 00:26:59,881 Speaker 3: I've got a great family that helped support and kind 617 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 3: of pick you up when you're having a bad moment. 618 00:27:02,801 --> 00:27:07,001 Speaker 3: But I've also got great people peer wise at work. 619 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,601 Speaker 3: I think in our environment, nobody wants to see anybody 620 00:27:11,241 --> 00:27:15,241 Speaker 3: not having a positive experience, so we're very attuned to that. 621 00:27:15,321 --> 00:27:17,801 Speaker 2: I feel like the last few years of consulting, I've 622 00:27:17,961 --> 00:27:21,641 Speaker 2: noticed a lot more companies having those really honest conversations 623 00:27:21,681 --> 00:27:24,001 Speaker 2: at the table. I think it was one organization I 624 00:27:24,041 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 2: went to where they would go around and get everyone 625 00:27:26,321 --> 00:27:29,241 Speaker 2: to sort of number where they're at in terms of stress. 626 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,441 Speaker 2: Then what do I need from people in this room 627 00:27:31,521 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 2: right now? 628 00:27:32,041 --> 00:27:32,241 Speaker 1: Yeap? 629 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 2: And sometimes that's like I just need everyone to be 630 00:27:34,241 --> 00:27:36,441 Speaker 2: a patient with me because I'm going through something bigger 631 00:27:36,441 --> 00:27:38,321 Speaker 2: at home, and is that kind of Oh? 632 00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:42,281 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I think we would spend as much time internally 633 00:27:43,001 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 3: supporting our teams and our people, talking about what support 634 00:27:46,961 --> 00:27:50,161 Speaker 3: our teams and people need, like as we do servicing clients. 635 00:27:50,241 --> 00:27:53,121 Speaker 3: It's a really big part of what we do all 636 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,401 Speaker 3: throughout the year, regular check ins, those sorts of things. 637 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:57,281 Speaker 1: It's huge. 638 00:27:57,441 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 2: Let's go back to seventeen year old Samantha just now, 639 00:28:01,801 --> 00:28:04,961 Speaker 2: I sat on schoolies, but you've decided on this, that's sad. 640 00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 2: What's the key lessons you've learned over thirty years spanning 641 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,521 Speaker 2: this career. Yeah, what would you tell her now? 642 00:28:09,681 --> 00:28:12,001 Speaker 3: I'd probably say not to be as hesitant and not 643 00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:16,201 Speaker 3: to sort of second guess yourself throughout taking those extra 644 00:28:16,241 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 3: opportunities or jumping. 645 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:19,481 Speaker 1: Right into things. 646 00:28:19,681 --> 00:28:22,561 Speaker 3: I think if I look back, there were times you go, oh, 647 00:28:22,561 --> 00:28:24,921 Speaker 3: I don't know whether I should do that, or am 648 00:28:24,921 --> 00:28:28,201 Speaker 3: I right for that role or those types of things, 649 00:28:28,561 --> 00:28:32,321 Speaker 3: And so for me it would be be more rest So, yeah, 650 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 3: be a bit more of a risk taker. 651 00:28:34,041 --> 00:28:37,801 Speaker 2: Okay, So then the next twenty years, theam what's a 652 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,721 Speaker 2: goal out there? Now? You don't do goals. I don't 653 00:28:40,041 --> 00:28:41,881 Speaker 2: do goals, but is there a risk that you'd like 654 00:28:41,921 --> 00:28:43,081 Speaker 2: to take that you sort of go. 655 00:28:43,961 --> 00:28:47,361 Speaker 3: I think it'll be whatever the next opportunity is or 656 00:28:47,401 --> 00:28:50,881 Speaker 3: wherever that presents itself, just going for it right, not 657 00:28:50,921 --> 00:28:52,761 Speaker 3: overthinking it, really having a crack. 658 00:28:53,401 --> 00:28:55,401 Speaker 2: I always like to finish on not always this question, 659 00:28:55,401 --> 00:28:56,961 Speaker 2: but I've used it a few times. So I heard 660 00:28:56,961 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 2: this from this harvest psychologist, and I thought it was 661 00:28:59,601 --> 00:29:04,121 Speaker 2: such a great question to ask leaders. So, Sam, why 662 00:29:04,241 --> 00:29:06,121 Speaker 2: should anyone be led by you? 663 00:29:06,841 --> 00:29:07,521 Speaker 1: Gosh? 664 00:29:07,721 --> 00:29:13,361 Speaker 3: Okay, I don't see myself as the leader. What I 665 00:29:13,441 --> 00:29:17,841 Speaker 3: see is I create an environment where people can be 666 00:29:17,881 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 3: at their best and we can do great things. So 667 00:29:20,481 --> 00:29:23,641 Speaker 3: it's not necessarily for me why people should be led 668 00:29:23,681 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 3: by me, but why people can work with me to 669 00:29:29,281 --> 00:29:32,161 Speaker 3: make sure that we're bringing the best out in each other, 670 00:29:32,441 --> 00:29:35,001 Speaker 3: and we're bringing the best to our clients, and we're 671 00:29:35,001 --> 00:29:36,001 Speaker 3: bringing the best. 672 00:29:35,921 --> 00:29:38,881 Speaker 1: To our communities. Oh, I love that. I like now 673 00:29:38,881 --> 00:29:39,401 Speaker 1: I think about it. 674 00:29:39,481 --> 00:29:42,681 Speaker 2: Yeah, very humpable. Well, thank you. It's been amazing having 675 00:29:42,681 --> 00:29:44,681 Speaker 2: you on here. I really enjoyed our conversation, So thank you, 676 00:29:44,721 --> 00:29:45,121 Speaker 2: Thank you.