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Speaker 1: Oh good a, you bloody champions. Welcome to another installment

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Speaker 1: of you Know What with you know Who? Tiffany and

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Speaker 1: Cook sitting over there like like she just got back

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Speaker 1: from some kind of outdoor adventure, which I think is

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Speaker 1: the case?

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Speaker 2: Is that the case?

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Speaker 3: That's the case?

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Speaker 2: Cracking still wearing your outdoor baseball cap? What's going on?

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Speaker 3: Well? I thought we might have like the line across

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Speaker 3: my head if I take it off. Now we're all morning.

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Speaker 2: Where'd you go?

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Speaker 3: I went to the thousand steps again, hanging out with

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Speaker 3: a bit of nature.

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Speaker 2: And who do you go there with?

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Speaker 3: By myself?

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Speaker 2: Wow?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, look at you getting your bloody your nature girl

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Speaker 1: vibe going.

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Speaker 3: I should get my calf down in the mail this week?

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Speaker 3: I think, do you.

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Speaker 2: Take do you take the wonder dog?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 3: You know how to take dogs?

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Speaker 1: There? Hmm, it's sad. Well, well that's okay, just you

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Speaker 1: and you and God and nature.

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Speaker 3: That's it.

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Speaker 1: Whoever got whoever your God is? Joel Sardi, Hi, good morning.

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Speaker 1: Did you go to the thousands? You go on thousand

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Speaker 1: stairs this morning?

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Speaker 2: Mate?

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Speaker 5: I The last time I went to a thousand steps

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Speaker 5: was probably more than ten years ago, So yeah, I

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Speaker 5: didn't do the thousand steps this morning, I've I've done

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Speaker 5: probably a few less steps than everybody here on the call.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Probably not because you're lazy, just because you know, these days,

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Speaker 1: stepping is not really a forte let's be honest.

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Speaker 2: No more of a more, more of a roller than

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Speaker 2: a step of these days.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and it's not like, yeah, not like the thousands

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Speaker 1: steps are particularly wheelchair friendly.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. No, last I checked, they weren't accessible.

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Speaker 2: Oh how are you?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm really good. A lot of changed since we

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Speaker 5: spoke last. I think I saw you last in October?

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Speaker 5: Was it, no, November?

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Speaker 2: No, we saw each other earlier this year. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: yeah that was that was not that long ago.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, but we didn't really get to check much

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Speaker 1: because we were at an event and we're all talking, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: have you joined a cult? Because your hair is very short?

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Speaker 1: You look like a Buddhist or some kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: what's going on? And it's if you are a Buddhist,

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Speaker 1: well done?

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Speaker 2: What's going on with the hair? Beautiful?

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Speaker 5: I was told by a four or three year old

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Speaker 5: daughter that it's probably time for a change because my

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Speaker 5: hair was as long as hers. And that was all

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Speaker 5: the advice or the feedback. I needed Harps and TIP.

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Speaker 5: So that day I went to the barber and he

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Speaker 5: shaved it off.

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Speaker 1: And look at you. I'll tell you what. You'll never

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Speaker 1: go back. I used to have long hair. But my

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Speaker 1: hair looks My hair looks fucking terrible long Yours look good.

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Speaker 1: Mine looks like some kind of shrub, some ugly shrub.

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Speaker 1: Ergo the perpetual short hair. What's what's going on? Like

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Speaker 1: what you said, A lot's happened. What's happened?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, since I met you guys, to you guys

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Speaker 5: last I was made redundant from my last job along

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Speaker 5: with the whole team. There was no performance INDICADI was

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Speaker 5: more so a finance repercussion and it sent me on

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Speaker 5: the path of unemployment with a mortgage and a family

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Speaker 5: to support. So it was a really stressful time and

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Speaker 5: one I've never been put in before. And just the

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Speaker 5: way the world works, Harps and TIF, it's quite interesting.

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Speaker 5: I was approached by someone at the Department of Veteran

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Speaker 5: Affairs and asked for some input and they said, would

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Speaker 5: you like to join the team, And I said absolutely,

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Speaker 5: because I've wanted to work in veteran welfare and improving

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Speaker 5: the lives of people who have experienced adversity or hardship.

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Speaker 5: It's funny, you know. I went at the time and

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Speaker 5: needed at most, so I reached out and said, come

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Speaker 5: and join us. So I'm now turning a bit months

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Speaker 5: into a new role with the Department of Veteran Affairs,

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Speaker 5: working with veterans and their families who are you could say,

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Speaker 5: catastrophically injured and affected. Yeah, and putting toga there's some

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Speaker 5: framework to assist them.

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Speaker 2: Wow, congratulations mate, that's amazing.

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Speaker 5: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Tell us a little bit about like.

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Speaker 1: Because obviously that's you know, it's in the wheelhouse, but

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Speaker 1: it's a different role, and it's a different organization and

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Speaker 1: it's working with a different group of people.

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Speaker 2: How do you learn how to do that job?

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Speaker 1: Like, do they go, well, mate, we're going to train

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Speaker 1: you four weeks and then cut your loose or how.

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Speaker 2: Does it work?

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Speaker 5: Well, that's the interesting thing, Harps. I joined a team

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Speaker 5: when there wasn't really a job description for me, So

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Speaker 5: my left and right of arc hadn't really been defined,

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Speaker 5: and my job description wasn't there. So I really didn't

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Speaker 5: completely understand what my day to day looked like until

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Speaker 5: I sort of did my for lack of a better word,

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Speaker 5: apprenticeship in your public service, understanding who does what and

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Speaker 5: what teams have responsibility for what, and then understanding there

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Speaker 5: were some gaps in capability and sort of pitching that

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Speaker 5: to some of the people at the team, and that

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Speaker 5: was where they said, Yep, let's jumped down, let's jump

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Speaker 5: into that. And again, you know, I'm starting from scratch.

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Speaker 5: I've never been a project manage lead before, but here

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Speaker 5: i am. Yeah, I'm doing a lot of Courserra, a

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Speaker 5: lot of YouTube, a lot of LinkedIn.

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Speaker 1: On the go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: But the benefit I have Craig and Tiff is the

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Speaker 5: fact that I've been in the position where I'm going

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Speaker 5: to be working. I've been in the position where catastrophically injured,

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Speaker 5: where my family was affected, where we didn't know where

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Speaker 5: to turn to for help. Yeah, So that lived experience

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Speaker 5: is critical and that's what I'll be leaning on. But

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Speaker 5: the major difference in what my role is now, it's

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Speaker 5: quite it's strategic as opposed to the operational role I've

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Speaker 5: been in with my previous job. So as opposed to

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Speaker 5: seeing the outcomes, I'm not sure if I'll see that

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Speaker 5: yet because I'm building the program.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that what you said about lived experience,

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Speaker 1: because I was thinking, when someone comes knocking on the

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Speaker 1: metaphoric door to talk to someone and you're not coming

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Speaker 1: from a theoretical or an academic place or a you know,

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Speaker 1: of course you need knowledge and skills and you know,

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Speaker 1: awareness around what to do and strategies and tools and resources.

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Speaker 2: And all of that.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, you know, they meet you

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Speaker 1: and they go, oh wow, you understand, like you experientially understand,

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Speaker 1: if not exactly what we're going through, a version of

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Speaker 1: what we're going through.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I'll never understand what you're going

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Speaker 5: through Craig let alone the veterans who are going through families.

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Speaker 5: But the fact that I've got my injury in my

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Speaker 5: experience gives me a little bit of credibility. And for

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Speaker 5: those out there that aren't aware, you know, people love

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Speaker 5: to throw shade at DVA and so they're not doing

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Speaker 5: a good enough job. But I think a lot of

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Speaker 5: those people haven't really said, you know what, I'll put

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Speaker 5: my hand and I'll join the team and I'll try

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Speaker 5: and improve the processes. So that's something I want to do.

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Speaker 5: I am doing. I want to improve the rhetoric or

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Speaker 5: improve the narrative around DVA and injecting people who lived experience,

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Speaker 5: who have served into the department, I think is a

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Speaker 5: really good start. Without long own trumpet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that every organization needs to

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Speaker 1: be you know, it's hard because it is an organization,

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Speaker 1: not an individual. But if there's such a thing as

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Speaker 1: organizational self awareness, I think all organizations need it, you know,

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Speaker 1: where we can say yeah, we do some things well,

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Speaker 1: some things we could do better. You know, we're not perfect.

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Speaker 1: We're working stuff out, and everything is you know, there

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Speaker 1: is no perfect system, there is no perfect model. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's great, mate, that's great. So how does it work?

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Speaker 2: Do you like?

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Speaker 1: Where are you right now? I can see Dennis Rodman

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Speaker 1: Jersey behind you. Are you at home or at work?

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Speaker 1: Or do you go?

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Speaker 2: Do you work or do you do it from home?

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Speaker 2: What's the practical?

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Speaker 5: The beautiful part of the public service is the flexibility

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Speaker 5: and the hybrid environment that I've rolled into, not stepped into.

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Speaker 5: So it's two days in the office, which is in CBD,

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Speaker 5: and then three days from home. Yeah, and for someone

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Speaker 5: like myself with disability, who sometimes my morning routine could

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Speaker 5: take two and a half three hours. That flex really

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Speaker 5: allows me to work from home on days where I

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Speaker 5: need to and then go into the office when I can.

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Speaker 2: What's the what are the like in a perfect world?

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Speaker 2: Is that hybrid the best fit for you? Because I

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Speaker 2: would imagine going to work five days wouldn't be ideal,

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Speaker 2: but always being at home wouldn't be ideal.

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Speaker 5: Ah, it's ideal in that I can also maintain sessions

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Speaker 5: with my EP. So start early, so I start at seven,

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Speaker 5: finish around eight thirty nine o'clock, and then do a

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Speaker 5: full day of work and then go into the office

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Speaker 5: the next day to then build the networks to then

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Speaker 5: understand a little bit more about the going on internally. See,

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Speaker 5: I'm no different to people that have no that don't

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Speaker 5: have disability. That's crucial for a work life balance.

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Speaker 1: So when you say your EP some there's a percentage

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Speaker 1: of people right now going what's an OPE? So you're

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Speaker 1: talking about your excise physiologist. I'm guessing ye, So how

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Speaker 1: long since your injury is it?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 5: It was ten years in August this year.

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Speaker 1: I won't say happy birthday, that feels inappropriately. How how

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Speaker 1: does your rehab and I guess your exercise programming in

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Speaker 1: general how does that work now? Is it just now

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Speaker 1: more where you've got to a point where trying to

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Speaker 1: keep it, maintain it or is there still is the

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Speaker 1: goal still improvement increased function?

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Speaker 2: Like what's the focus?

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Speaker 5: The focus for me now getting to the gym and

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Speaker 5: exercising recovery isn't getting back to what it used to

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Speaker 5: be in terms of before my injuries, just maintaining a

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Speaker 5: level of health and strength. Over the past the past

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Speaker 5: ten years, I've had a lot of learning about what

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Speaker 5: my body's capability is because of my spinal cord injury.

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Speaker 5: But my EP will work holistically on nutrition, on exercise,

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Speaker 5: on wellness outside of the gym as well, and that

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Speaker 5: would be three sessions a week, two hours a day.

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Speaker 5: And over the past ten years, my weights fluctuated from

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Speaker 5: ninety five kilos down to what started at ninety five

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Speaker 5: and then dropped down to sixty and then went back

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Speaker 5: up to ninety five and then back down to sixty

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Speaker 5: and understanding the body's limitations, and over the last I

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Speaker 5: think ten months, I've stopped drinking alcohol and I haven't

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Speaker 5: had a trip to hospital a bladder infection, and my strength,

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Speaker 5: my AP's notice has gone through the roof so Craig,

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Speaker 5: you'd probably understand tip and for the exercise buffs bench

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Speaker 5: press is a pretty good measure of strength. Then I

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Speaker 5: started twelve kilos at the start of the year. I'm

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Speaker 5: now at thirty five kilos.

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Speaker 2: That's amazing, mate, that's fucking wow.

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Speaker 1: That's I mean, that's one kilo away from triple you know,

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Speaker 1: three hundred percent increase.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know it's funny, there's no surprise. It's

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Speaker 5: consistency and nutrition.

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Speaker 1: And that's booze is no good for you everyone, Sorry,

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Speaker 1: you heard it here first. Hey, let's just pause this

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Speaker 1: conversation momentarily, and just for the people who are meeting

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Speaker 1: you today for the first time, can you just remind

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Speaker 1: us what your injury is. Just it doesn't need to

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Speaker 1: be well as much or as little as you want.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yep. So I've got a spinal cord injury at

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Speaker 5: the C five level, so I'm classed as a C

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Speaker 5: five quadriplegic. So you'll you'll see I've got use of

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Speaker 5: my arms, but not my fingers, not use of my

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Speaker 5: tricep or my core or basically anything below my chest.

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Speaker 5: And that was the result of a fall down some

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Speaker 5: stairs ten years ago. So when Craig was referring to

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Speaker 5: you know, happy birthday, the thirty first of August is

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Speaker 5: my wheeliversary, inniversary, whatever you want to say, And yeah,

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Speaker 5: that's that's where I'm at now.

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Speaker 1: Cool, Hey day you had I mentioned on the show

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Speaker 1: tip and I did give and I just did a

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Speaker 1: freestyle chat as we do because planning is overrated and

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Speaker 1: we're both lazy.

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Speaker 2: So other than that, other than that, it's all gold.

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Speaker 2: And we're talking about we're talking about gratitude.

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Speaker 1: And I was talking about my gratitude practices and you

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Speaker 1: know which, as I said yesterday, it can be it

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Speaker 1: can be a kind of a cheesy concept, I guess,

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Speaker 1: but tell us about you and gratitude, like I was.

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Speaker 1: My three things, which I'll say just quickly again, is one,

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Speaker 1: every time I talk to my mom, I have overwhelming

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Speaker 1: gratitude because one day she won't be there, right so

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Speaker 1: right now she's still here, I can talk to her.

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Speaker 2: It's great.

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Speaker 1: Every time I get up out of the chair that

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Speaker 1: I'm now in as I talk to you, just the

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Speaker 1: fact that I can stand is fucking amazing, right, It's like,

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Speaker 1: as you more than anyone knowing being able to walk

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Speaker 1: down my stairs and walk up my stairs. Right, I

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Speaker 1: have this little gratitude practice, especially having spent time with

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Speaker 1: you and John, my friend who also.

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Speaker 2: Got blown up.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's just being able to walk upstairs is

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Speaker 1: a privilege. But we don't have that sense because we

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Speaker 1: met most of us have never lost it.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 1: And then my last one is just being able to

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Speaker 1: turn on tap. You know, I turn on a tap

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Speaker 1: and cold water comes out, and more than a quarter

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Speaker 1: of a million people in the world can't. Court of

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Speaker 1: the population I should say, two point two billion people,

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Speaker 1: not only do they not have taps, they don't even

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Speaker 1: have any access to fresh, cold, drinking water. Right, So

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Speaker 1: the amount of people who don't have a tap could

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Speaker 1: be half the population in the world. But you know,

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Speaker 1: so we're talking about these little like what brings me back?

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Speaker 1: Like what for me kind of grounds me, what gives

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Speaker 1: me a healthy perspective that makes me realize sometimes I'm

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Speaker 1: a privileged, entitled fuck what about her?

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Speaker 2: I am? You know, I don't want to be.

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Speaker 1: I don't mean to be, you know, but sometimes, you know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes some of the shit that goes on in my mind,

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Speaker 1: I go, I don't even fucking like me, and I

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Speaker 1: am me, why am I thinking like this? You know,

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Speaker 1: you know, Huck, So tell me about you.

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Speaker 2: Do you find it?

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Speaker 1: I'm sure the answer is no, But tell us about

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Speaker 1: you and gratitude. How does that work?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 5: Look, when you said the word perspective, Crea, you could

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Speaker 5: have just finished everything you were saying there, because perspective

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Speaker 5: is literally what I live by, Because you know, I

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Speaker 5: may not be able to move ninety percent of my

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Speaker 5: body or control it, but you know, my mind is active,

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Speaker 5: it's healthy, functional. I've got two little girls. I've got

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Speaker 5: a wife who we've been married for six years this year.

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Speaker 5: So there's so much in my life that that is good.

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Speaker 5: You know, I've got a good job, I've got a

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Speaker 5: great family around me. I may not be able to

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Speaker 5: do things like you know, peace or shit or you know,

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Speaker 5: all the other things that people do without, but you

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Speaker 5: know what, I woke up this morning. I've got in

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Speaker 5: the shower, my care, I got me dressed, and I

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Speaker 5: went to had a coffee with my oldest daughter. I

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Speaker 5: drove her down. Now, all of that doesn't happen without

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Speaker 5: being grateful for what I do have. And there was

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Speaker 5: a long time when I was injured where I was

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Speaker 5: looking at everything that I couldn't do every day? Why

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Speaker 5: couldn't I?

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Speaker 1: Why me?

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Speaker 5: Were the questions, and it took a moment of realization

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Speaker 5: to change the narrative of why me too? Why the

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Speaker 5: fuck not me? Why can't I be happy? Why can't

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Speaker 5: I be successful? Just because I'm a quadriplegic, Because I've

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Speaker 5: got friends in my life that that won't be around

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Speaker 5: for much longer because they've got brain cancer right now. Yes,

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Speaker 5: there's the word perspective for you. Yes, my daughters don't

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Speaker 5: know me as any different. They just know me as dad,

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Speaker 5: and they treat me no differently, CREATI and Tiff and

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Speaker 5: your prime example is our youngest daughter Luna, who grabs

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Speaker 5: a TV, runs away from me and hides behind the couch.

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Speaker 5: She treats me no different, she just tells me. So

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Speaker 5: that is my gratitude, those little moments. And I think

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Speaker 5: everybody not I think everybody in your life. You could

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Speaker 5: look around and they've all got some shit going on. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: it's my injury and it's not really a problem for me.

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Speaker 5: I'll just I would use the biggest example we've got now,

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Speaker 5: Elon Musk, maybe Lebron James, all these massive names with

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Speaker 5: so much profile, money success. I bet you they're going

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Speaker 5: to have their problems Monday through Friday or nine live.

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Speaker 5: So just because they's someone we see on TV or

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Speaker 5: picture anywhere externally in our lives doesn't mean that they've

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Speaker 5: got their shit squared away and their lives are better

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Speaker 5: than ours. We've all with our own problems, so understanding

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Speaker 5: that we've got good things in our lives and having

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Speaker 5: gratitude for those is really important.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. As you were talking, then I

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Speaker 1: wrote down. I wrote down on my ever present pad

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Speaker 1: that I have in front of me when I talk

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Speaker 1: to people. I wrote life situation versus life experience. Right,

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Speaker 1: So there's the situation that we're in and then there's

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Speaker 1: the experience that we are having. And for the most part,

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Speaker 1: our experience is a byproduct of our thinking and our emotions.

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Speaker 2: You know, like you are in a situation.

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Speaker 1: I mean this with respect, and I talk about not

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Speaker 1: your family, kid's job, but in terms of being in

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Speaker 1: a wheelchair and being C five quandity. Like you, you

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Speaker 1: are in a reality, a physiological reality that nobody wants.

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Speaker 1: Nobody wants, right, that's part of your life situation. But

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Speaker 1: in the middle of that thing, that nobody wants. There's

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Speaker 1: every chance that you're happier than a lot of our

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Speaker 1: listeners who don't have that. Now, by the way, listeners,

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Speaker 1: I love you. I'm not throwing you under the bus,

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Speaker 1: but I'm just thinking, like when we when we look

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Speaker 1: at somebody's just practical reality, their life, situation, circumstance, environment,

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Speaker 1: and then we look at the experience, which is an

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Speaker 1: internal thing, not an external thing, but that internal experience

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Speaker 1: in the middle of that practical, observable reality, what's the link,

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Speaker 1: what's the relationship? Either of you two feel free to

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Speaker 1: jump in, but what comes to mind with that? Like

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Speaker 1: when you think about some people in great situations are

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Speaker 1: having bad experiences and some people in terrible situations are

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Speaker 1: typically having much better experiences. It's you know, for me,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of that is about our ability to

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Speaker 1: consciously create our version of reality.

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Speaker 5: I think the link the link there is the perspective

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Speaker 5: perhaps over time we become numb to certain experiences or memories,

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Speaker 5: so therefore we forget what things used to be, and

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Speaker 5: we really don't compare to what we used to have.

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Speaker 5: We just compare it to the now. And I guess

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Speaker 5: that's the perspective part you know in terms of what

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Speaker 5: was it the internal experience versus the internal situation?

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Speaker 2: Well, I was just saying your life experience, like you

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Speaker 2: how you experience life now? You know all the internal stuff, feelings, thoughts, ideas, emotions, joy, pleasure, fun,

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Speaker 2: pain versus situation. And like you said, Lebron James and

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Speaker 2: Elon Musk, from the outside looking in, you would both say,

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Speaker 2: depending on the metrics that were used, they are wildly successful.

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Speaker 2: Therefore they're probably really fucking happy. Well, statistically they might

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Speaker 2: be less happy than the average person who knows.

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Speaker 4: I feel like like in Joel's situation, the idea of

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Speaker 4: it is what it is now. I talked about with

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Speaker 4: Captain Charlie Plumb when he was imprisoned for six years

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Speaker 4: in the Hanoi Hilton, and the fact that they didn't

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Speaker 4: come out with PTSD because it was the worst it

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Speaker 4: could possibly be and it stayed there. So this no

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Speaker 4: rise and fall of expectations, Like Joel isn't suffering from

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Speaker 4: a physical disease where he's deteriorating. In somebody who might

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Speaker 4: have a disease like that, like say maybe MS or

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Speaker 4: something where their function is declining, whereas Joel's at a baseline.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have either of you read Man Search

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Speaker 1: for Meaning Victor Frankel.

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Speaker 3: A long time ago? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you love that mate.

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Speaker 1: It's about a psychiatrist in the Second World War who

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Speaker 1: was in prisoner of war, a prisoner of war camp

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Speaker 1: in Germany, a Jewish psychiatrist, and essentially he was like,

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Speaker 1: they can take everything, but they can't take my mind,

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Speaker 1: you know, and like they can for me. The way

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Speaker 1: that I read it, which is just my interpretation, was

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Speaker 1: very much they can control my situation and my environment

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Speaker 1: and my circumstance, but they can't control me because I'm

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Speaker 1: not my situation or environment or circumstance.

404
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Speaker 2: I'm not that.

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Speaker 1: I'm something separate. I'm not even my body, you know.

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Speaker 1: And there's that beautiful like, oh yeah, I'm not my body,

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Speaker 1: I'm not my environment, I'm not my bank balance, I'm

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Speaker 1: not my wheelchair, I'm not my situation. I'm not what

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Speaker 1: other people fucking think me and who I am at

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Speaker 1: my core. No one can take that, doesn't matter what

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Speaker 1: goes on around me.

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Speaker 5: It rings a bell and I do remember that was

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Speaker 5: his coping mechanism. Yes, have you finished your PhD? At Halts?

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Speaker 1: Oh no, from on the way for a while. I'm

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Speaker 1: not the fastest, but it's only I say only, but

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Speaker 1: it's five years, so I would I don't know like

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00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,719
Speaker 1: I think i'll be. I'm handing, so I've done without

418
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 1: boring my listeners again. But so all of the work

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00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 1: that I have to do in terms of running studies,

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00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 1: collecting data, doing my own research, all that is done

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00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 1: passing what's called all of my academic hurdle or requirements,

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00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: which is going in front of a board. You've got

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00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: to do that four times. That's been done and passed.

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Speaker 1: So now I'm at what's called the write up stage

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Speaker 1: where i'm writing up. So I'm writing what's called a

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00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 1: systematic literature review, which is about a fourteen month process.

427
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,679
Speaker 2: So if you do a search.

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Speaker 1: On how long does it take to write a systematic

429
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Speaker 1: literature review for a PhD, it says fourteen months full time.

430
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Speaker 1: That's if you're doing nothing else, right, So that's if

431
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: it's your job. So I've been working on that for

432
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Speaker 1: about a year. And I'm also writing to what's called

433
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 1: empirical papers, which are papers off the research. So the

434
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:09,199
Speaker 1: research that I did on metaaccuracy and metaperception, you know

435
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: how other people see us.

436
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 2: So you do your research, you.

437
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: Get the data, you interpret the data, and then you

438
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: write papers about that, and you've got to add, Like

439
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,200
Speaker 1: in a PhD, you've got to bring something new into

440
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 1: the world in that area of research. You can't do

441
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 1: what's been done, So you've got to build on the research.

442
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 1: You've got to add to someone else's research, or you've

443
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 1: got to open a new door and.

444
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 2: Go, oh, look what's in here, and so look at this.

445
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: So yeah, to answer your question, hopefully in six months,

446
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 1: I'm done and dusted. But even then, when you hand

447
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: everything in, it's not like they go thumbs up, well done,

448
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 1: pad on the back. More than likely i'll get stuff

449
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,199
Speaker 1: sent back where they say you've got to fix this,

450
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:57,959
Speaker 1: change that, or address that.

451
00:23:58,160 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 2: So it's a bit of a too.

452
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: But I'm on the If it was the Melbourne Cup,

453
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: which I do not like, but would be in the

454
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 1: last fucking furlong or so, I would think, whatever a

455
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 1: furlong is, yeah, beats me for your doc. Oh, when

456
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 1: you can call me doc. Hopefully in about six months,

457
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: I would hope. So what else is going on? How's

458
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: the family? How old are the kids now?

459
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 5: So as may turns for tomorrow. She turns for tomorrow.

460
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 2: How do you spell may.

461
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 5: Me with a little s? Yeah?

462
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,360
Speaker 2: All right, what a cool cute with the little thing

463
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 2: go above the last e?

464
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah. So from top right to bottom left?

465
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 2: What's the origin story of Esme? What? How did you?

466
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,199
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a very cute name. That's enough. It

467
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 2: doesn't need to be a backstory. But is there a backstorre?

468
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 5: The origin goes My wife said what do you think

469
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 5: of Esme? And I said, I love it? That's the origin?

470
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's good. That's all.

471
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: That's all you need. So tell me about as you

472
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: as you step into this new role in your job

473
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: and you're working alongside other people, are you being mentored

474
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: and coached or is this largely you know, here's this

475
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: space over here, Joel, go figure it out.

476
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm definitely being mentored, and I'm really grateful for

477
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 5: that because the public service is so different to private sector.

478
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 5: Coming from the tech startup where everything was go go, go,

479
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 5: go go, it was a lot faster. However, where I

480
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 5: am now it's it's understanding. You know, this morning I

481
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 5: had to listen to estimate center estimates. I've never done

482
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 5: that before. I had no idea what was happening, but

483
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 5: there I was. So it's a really different landscape in

484
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 5: terms of what impacts my immediate job as well. But yeah,

485
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 5: I've been mentored and guided and the first two and

486
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 5: a half months, I say, it's like the apprenticeship. I've

487
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 5: probably got a lot more to go on my apprenticeship

488
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 5: in the public service.

489
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I feel like when you do the first.

490
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,479
Speaker 1: I don't know, month two, three, ten, Like when I

491
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 1: opened my first business. I was twenty six, and the

492
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 1: idea of opening that business to the reality of what

493
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: I had to do when the business was opened, I

494
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: was completely unprepared, like I didn't have the skills because

495
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 1: I've never had my own business. And then all of

496
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: a sudden, like I'm in meetings with lawyers, I'm in

497
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: meetings with marketing people, or with my accountant or with

498
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: and I'm having conversations that are just over my head

499
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: because I don't I don't know the answers for a start,

500
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,360
Speaker 1: and then I don't have the language because I don't know,

501
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: especially when I'm talking to a lawyer. And even when

502
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: I remember when I went looking for my first premises

503
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: commercial premises to set up Australia's first personal training studio.

504
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: And the guy said that I had no experience. I

505
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: didn't own a house or I owned. I had no

506
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: real estate. I'd never done anything like that. And the

507
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: guy goes to me, what kind of lease are you

508
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: looking at? This is for the thing? And I go

509
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 1: what kind are there? And he goes what I go,

510
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 1: I don't know how to answer that question, Like I

511
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: just look like a fucking idiot, But I thought, I

512
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: can't make up an answer because I.

513
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 2: Don't, you know.

514
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: And what he was saying was how long do you

515
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: want the lease to be? And do you want any options?

516
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: Like a three year lease with two three year options

517
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: do you want I didn't know that language. And he

518
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: also said to me how many square feet are you

519
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: looking at? You know, like back then it was feet

520
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: not meters. And he goes how many square like what

521
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: area square feet? And we're standing on Hampton Street and

522
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: I said, see that silver Corolla down there, and he goes, yeah.

523
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 1: I go from me to the silver Corolla and across

524
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: to that orange Cortina and back to that fucking white Commodore.

525
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: Like I literally just.

526
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: All I knew was in my head what it looked like,

527
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: but I just translate that into some fucking formula or number,

528
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: Like I knew what it looked like, but I couldn't

529
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: quantify it, because I mean, now I can, But then

530
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 1: I didn't know what two thousand square feet looked like.

531
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: And He's like, he must have thought, this is the

532
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: dumbest motherfucker I've ever.

533
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 2: Spoken, you know, But that's where you grow, right, That's

534
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 2: where you grow.

535
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, outside the comfort zone. I'm doing a lot

536
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 5: of that at the moment, and imposter syndrome. I'm getting

537
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 5: a healthy dose of healthy dose of it. It wears

538
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 5: off a little bit further into the role, but you

539
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 5: know that those lessons you learn, like speaking to the

540
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 5: real estate agent, understanding what square feed are Yeah, I'm

541
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 5: getting little lessons like that every day, and I think

542
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 5: it's best for me to sit back and listen as

543
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 5: opposed to talking, which is what I was doing in

544
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 5: my last job, because I was quite confident and competent,

545
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 5: whereas I'm not saying I'm not competent here, but there's

546
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 5: not as much confidence as of yet.

547
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: But I think this is really relevant, this conversation because everybody,

548
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: like a lot of us, want to change something like,

549
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: especially people who are listen to the show, they want

550
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: to change something in their life. They want to adapt

551
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: or do something different, or they do the same thing

552
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: a better way, or be more effective or more efficient,

553
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: or learn more or grow more. But like for you

554
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: right now, you're probably going to go through more of

555
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: a growth spurt in inverted commas intellectually, emotionally, sociologically, you know,

556
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: skill wise, more of a growth spurt in this six

557
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: months than the last six years.

558
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 2: Maybe.

559
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'd say so. I absolutely agree, and I'm really

560
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 5: looking forward to it.

561
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's I mean, that's been willing to put

562
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: ourselves in that situation. I guess do you remember, Tiff,

563
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: when you started your podcast right like, how many episodes

564
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: are you in now to yours? Are you about eight

565
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:25,479
Speaker 1: hundred or something?

566
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 3: Eight fifty something?

567
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 2: Yeah?

568
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, But do you remember, like I remember jumping on

569
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: and I had a running start because I've already done

570
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: a few that were no good, and I've done radio,

571
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: so at least I was used to talking. But what

572
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: like when you look back now and you've done hundreds

573
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: of episodes with me, so you've probably done I mean,

574
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: you must be heading towards one and a half thousand

575
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: episodes yourself all up?

576
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 2: What did you thinking? Back now?

577
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: What didn't you know and what skills didn't you have?

578
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: And it doesn't need to be about podcasting everyone. We're

579
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: just talking about taking us something that we're good at

580
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: and getting good at it and developing it into a

581
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: real thing in the world that works.

582
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 2: Like, what was a challenge for you?

583
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 4: Well, I didn't know what I didn't know, but what

584
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 4: was What I've always talk about.

585
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 3: Is naivety was the gift for me.

586
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 4: So because I didn't know what I didn't know, I

587
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 4: just got stuck into it and I didn't get held

588
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 4: back by any rules that might that I might have

589
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 4: perceived existed that I wasn't up to scratch with. I

590
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,719
Speaker 4: remember calling you maybe three months in and going, okay,

591
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 4: so i've been doing this a bit now, and I

592
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 4: want to get better, but I don't know what that means.

593
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 4: I don't know what it looks like or feels like,

594
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 4: and I don't know what I'm asking to get better at.

595
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: So you're the guru?

596
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 3: Can you make me better?

597
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 2: Definitely? I've been fucking masquerading as a guru. In fact,

598
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 2: I never masqueraded as a guru.

599
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: But it is funny when you know, it's like sometimes

600
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: I'm about four days ahead of someone else on the

601
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: progression and they I'm like, mate, you know last Thursday

602
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: I was you. I don't know.

603
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: I'm fucking making it up as I go.

604
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: So that imposter syndrome, Joel, and the kind of the

605
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: feeling like a fraud is that is that more apparent

606
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: now than it was in the last few years because

607
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: you're in this new space. And also how do you

608
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: deal with that because that's a scourge. I mean, everybody's

609
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: got a version of that.

610
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 5: It's absolutely more prevalent now than it was in the past.

611
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 5: Somebody told me once that all strangers know something you don't,

612
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 5: and it's always stuck with me. So I just sit

613
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 5: there and I think was as much as I don't

614
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 5: know what they know and they don't know what I know,

615
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 5: goes back to what you're saying, Tiff. You know you

616
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 5: don't know what you don't know. And I'll sit there

617
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 5: in a meeting and listen to people speak about certain

618
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 5: topics or certain projects are running, and there'll be a

619
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 5: brain brain something will come out and I'll think we

620
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 5: should consider this, we should consider that. But the other,

621
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 5: the voice in my head saying, no, someone's already thought

622
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 5: of that, someone's already spoken it. But that naivete comes in, Tiff,

623
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 5: I'll put my hand up and I'll make a comment

624
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 5: and it's received well, and there's a little bit of

625
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 5: imposter syndrome wearing enough with each little risk I take.

626
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 5: And I think in a productive environment, people should be

627
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 5: willing to and prepared to make mistakes and say almost

628
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 5: the wrong thing, but not in terms of insulting others,

629
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 5: because that in there, that is where the growth happens,

630
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 5: that's where we develop. I'm not to someone I haven't

631
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 5: made some silly comments in the past, or asked some

632
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 5: silly questions, or been asked questions when I wasn't concentrating

633
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 5: and thrown out an absolutely ludicrous answer. But hey, there

634
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 5: were again learnings.

635
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the good things about having

636
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: somebody who isn't part of the program, who gets brought

637
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: in who like you, don't think like them. You don't

638
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: have their background, their program, their conditioning, and they're not

639
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: bad things that just you haven't been part of that.

640
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: And then you come into a different space and environment

641
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,959
Speaker 1: with a different skill set and background and maybe you'll

642
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: have an idea, maybe you'll see something they don't see.

643
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: Maybe you'll bring a different energy.

644
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 2: Like I I met a lady the other day in

645
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 2: the cafe who.

646
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, she knows me, and she's she listens

647
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: to the show, and she was a sweetheart, and she's like,

648
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: you know what i'd love you to do? And I

649
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: went what she goes, I'd love you to coach someone

650
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: in real time on the show. And I'm like, all

651
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I just thought of fifty things that

652
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: could go wrong with that, right, And I was kind

653
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 1: of that would be a challenge, right, because you've got

654
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: to find that. But then later on I thought, like,

655
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: the right person, the right way that could be, you know,

656
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 1: And then I thought, do you know what?

657
00:34:59,400 --> 00:34:59,760
Speaker 2: I thought?

658
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 1: This my ego and my fear and my insecurity. I thought,

659
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: what if I do a bad job?

660
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:05,919
Speaker 2: What if?

661
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 1: What if proper coaches listen? What if what if real

662
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: coaches listen and they go, why the fuck is? Why

663
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 1: did he do that? Why did he say? But then

664
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: you know that was my own bullshit.

665
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,240
Speaker 2: But have you pardon?

666
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 5: Have you found anybody to coach? No?

667
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: I haven't put it out there yet, but it would be.

668
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I think some people go, yeah, pick me,

669
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: pick me, but I don't think most people would realize no,

670
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: that is that that is perhaps not the prize you

671
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 1: think it is. To be coached like that seems like, oh,

672
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: I'll get a bit of airtime, I'll be.

673
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:44,439
Speaker 2: On Craig show.

674
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: No, no, that's not. It's not a self promotion exercise.

675
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: Like I actually genuinely want to open the door and

676
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: coach someone.

677
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: And obviously it'd be pre.

678
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,760
Speaker 1: Recorded, so if it ended up being a dog's breakfast,

679
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: we'd been it, so there's no you know, or if

680
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: the person went, fuck, I don't want that to go

681
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: to air, that would be okay. Or if I went, look,

682
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: that's probably not going to be great listening. Yeah, but

683
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 1: just as a concept, like as in terms of someone

684
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: coming into my space with a fresh idea, I thought,

685
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: what do you think of that idea?

686
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 2: TIF I still don't know if that's good.

687
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 4: Orbout it, and I think Joel might be raising his hand,

688
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 4: But I love it. I listened to shows where people

689
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 4: are doing either live therapy or coaching, and that the

690
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 4: benefit you get as a listener is astounding because you

691
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 4: have to borrow the stories of others and see similarities,

692
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 4: and there's something beautifully authentic about those sorts of honest, open,

693
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 4: real conversations.

694
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: I think one of the challenges for me I'm thinking

695
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: about it would be because whenever I like what I'm

696
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: doing right now, what we're doing right now, we're in

697
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 1: a conversation. But even though we're in a genuine, organic, unplanned,

698
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: unscripted conversation, I always have audience awareness, you know, so

699
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: I would want to do it where essentially I'm not

700
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 1: at all at all thinking about which that's a challenge

701
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 1: about the fact that thousands of people are going to

702
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: listen because I don't want to. I don't want how

703
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 1: I would normally be or coach or connect. I don't

704
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: want that to be influenced by my awareness that there's

705
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: a big audience. So that might be something I need

706
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: to figure out, But I don't know.

707
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 4: How does that come into play with your group coaching?

708
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 4: Do you have a number of people in the room witnessing.

709
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, interest I mean really that's that's a small group.

710
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: So it's it's for me, it's more, you know, it's

711
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,399
Speaker 1: closer to one on one coaching than a podcast, which

712
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: is thousands of listeners. But yeah, I'm I'm as raw

713
00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: and as open and as direct and as what's the

714
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:08,399
Speaker 1: word impactful as they will let me be. Like, there

715
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 1: are people who on my in my current mentoring group

716
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 1: a very vulnerable and very like they've opened the door

717
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 1: wide right. There's a few people who who the door

718
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 1: is still shut and they're peeking through the keyhole.

719
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 2: And then there's a few.

720
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: Then there's a few who have opened the door about

721
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,919
Speaker 1: fucking three inches, but they've got the foot against the door, right,

722
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: and all of that is okay, that's no judgment either way.

723
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 2: That's just.

724
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: And so you get people who like I even know

725
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: and I'm you know, next week is week ten, So

726
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: I've spent nine weeks with them. I've done one on

727
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 1: a one on one with most of them, and I'm

728
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: well aware of who even though I haven't met any

729
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,280
Speaker 1: of these people face to face.

730
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 2: Oh actually that's not true.

731
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: I've done a couple of face to face coachings, but

732
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 1: most of them I don't know them other than through

733
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 1: the program. But I know them now well enough to

734
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: know who I could ask a particular question that I

735
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: could not ask another member of the group, you know,

736
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 1: So I think there's and I mean this just comes

737
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,320
Speaker 1: back to you know, even even when we're talking before

738
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: about what's happening in our external world and our internal world,

739
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: and you know, you and I opened a pretty you

740
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,839
Speaker 1: and I on our chat yesterday, like I got quite

741
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:33,439
Speaker 1: vulnerable and and I didn't. But I've cried about four

742
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: times in the history of the show, and yesterday was

743
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: fucking very close to number five.

744
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: Did you get that? Did you know? I was a

745
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 2: bit emotional. Yes, But it's like I don't mind that.

746
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 2: I don't mind that.

747
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: It's like if where I just end up is in

748
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: tears and that's just organic, then I'm cool with it.

749
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: I don't like that to me. That doesn't that's not

750
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: an indictment on me. That's not a problem for me.

751
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: I just tried be aware of being whatever the best

752
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:09,280
Speaker 1: version of me for the listeners is. But yeah, yeah,

753
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: So well mate, it's going to be interesting to chat

754
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: to you in a year to see what the progression

755
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: has been.

756
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, look, I'd be happy to chat to you

757
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 5: in a year from today.

758
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

759
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 4: Can I ask, just for the benefit of me and

760
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 4: maybe the listeners, what were you doing before this job, Joel?

761
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 3: What was your role before, I was.

762
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 5: An account manager at a tech startup called the Field

763
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 5: dot Jobs, and it was helping employers directly target people

764
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 5: with disability to employ them into their business and for

765
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 5: job seekers with disability to go on there and apply

766
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 5: for jobs on a website that was accessible in terms

767
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 5: of catering to their accessibility needs. And I absolutely loved

768
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 5: every moment of it. It was purposeful and we could

769
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 5: see the impact it was having. And then moving on

770
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 5: from that, there was a big, big transformation moving from

771
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 5: there to Department of Veteran Affairs.

772
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 2: How many weeks were you in limbo and what was

773
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 2: that like? What was that like? Dealing with the unknown?

774
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 5: Poor Craig. It was a daily challenge of I had done?

775
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:13,919
Speaker 5: What did I have written on my mirror? I think

776
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,760
Speaker 5: it was be present, Be present. It was on my mirror.

777
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 5: And it was six weeks of unemployment until I found

778
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 5: out I had a new job. So every morning I'd

779
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 5: wake up, but the beauty was every day. I get

780
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 5: to hang out with the girls every day. So there

781
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 5: was one one moment where I took as May on

782
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,760
Speaker 5: my own for the first time in our relationship together

783
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 5: to the city. We had a day together of getting

784
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 5: on the train and she had chocolate for breakfast, we

785
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 5: had ice cream for lunch, and I just did whatever

786
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 5: the fuck I could to spoil her because it was

787
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 5: the first chance I got with her because I was unemployed.

788
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 5: So all of those experiences that I was having were

789
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 5: because I was unemployed. So I was really grateful to

790
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,839
Speaker 5: be unemployed at that stage. It was you know, it

791
00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 5: was tense. It was hard to be present. At the

792
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 5: same time, was understanding that I had to find a job. Yeah,

793
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 5: it was a bit of a roller coaster each day,

794
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 5: but there was I think better experiences than they were

795
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 5: worse worse.

796
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: A part of me wants to tell you you're a

797
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: ship father, and part of me wants to tell you you're.

798
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 2: The best dad ever.

799
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 3: I just want to know, next time you're going out

800
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 3: and doing that, can I come dream?

801
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, my wife was now with the ice cream breakfast

802
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 5: and the chocolate breakfast.

803
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 1: That's because she's an actual fucking grown up. That's well,

804
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: maybe maybe breakfast or lunch, but not both. Now, it's

805
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: a good thing you've got a job and you're out

806
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: of your wife's way because you and parenting.

807
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 5: I'm not sure I got asked today, Dad, when Are

808
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 5: we going to go back to the big city again?

809
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 2: No time soon. Mom won't let me. Maybe if you're twenty.

810
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 5: First diabetes is crept into her life suddenly.

811
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 2: That's hilarious. Do you know what? I think we're going

812
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 2: to wind up?

813
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: But you know what, and this is completely unhelpful, unhelpful,

814
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 1: this doesn't What I am about to tell you doesn't

815
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 1: help you at all. But I reckon you should study psychology.

816
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: I reckon you'd be good at it. I just think

817
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 1: you have you know, I know that's completely impractical. Maybe

818
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: you could study part time. Do you ever think about

819
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 1: not necessarily psyched, but studying anything.

820
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 5: I've got a semester into psychological science, rest my case. Yeah,

821
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 5: I freaking loved it and I actually got really good grades.

822
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 5: And then I got offered a job to be at

823
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 5: the field and I put that on hold.

824
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 2: There you go.

825
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 5: No, if I had the capacity, crag. Everyone's got the

826
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 5: same amount of time in the day that I do.

827
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 5: But if I had more capacity, I would I will

828
00:43:59,320 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 5: return to it.

829
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 2: You know what you need?

830
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,439
Speaker 1: You need a voluntary research assistant, so we could get

831
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: someone to help you with your just the practical shit.

832
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: You can get those you know, it'd be good for you,

833
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: be good to anyone.

834
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 5: Out there that would know how to support me. There

835
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 5: I'll start tomorrow.

836
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just think that you, apart from the fact

837
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: that you know you're smart and you have a curious

838
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: mind and you're fascinated with human behavior, I think because

839
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: of your lived experience, on top of the knowledge, on

840
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: top of the education and.

841
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 2: The training, you know it would be Yeah. I don't know.

842
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 1: That's I don't know why I think that, but that's

843
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: and I probably shouldn't have said that mid fucking podcast.

844
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 1: I probably should have told you that off there. It's

845
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 1: probably totally inappropriate.

846
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 2: But there you go. Listeners, You're welcome.

847
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 5: You're on point, because you know I was half a halfway.

848
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 5: I was an eighth of the way there.

849
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 2: Greg, Well, we'll see what happens. If people want to.

850
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: Get you, Joel, Barry, Evan, Brian SARTI to come and

851
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: work with their organization and buy that. I mean, come

852
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 1: and have a chat with them, inspire them, educate, inform them,

853
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: be at a corporate be at a sporting a club,

854
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: be at any other kind of organization. I've heard Joel

855
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: speak multiple times. He's very good, and not just because

856
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: he's a bloke in a wheelchair and a bit inspiring.

857
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 1: He's very good. He's a very good presenter. So if

858
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 1: you want somebody like Joel to come and chat with

859
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: your group, hit him up and how do they do that?

860
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 5: Thank you so much, Craig Joelsarty dot com and the

861
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 5: details will be there.

862
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:38,399
Speaker 2: Is that it.

863
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:42,280
Speaker 1: You're the worst fucking self promoter of all time. Better

864
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: at promoting I'm better at promoting you than you are.

865
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 2: Mate.

866
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 1: We appreciate you, We love your guards. Congrats on a

867
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: new position. Onward and upward. Have a good day mate.

868
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 1: We'll say goodbye affair of course, but for now, thanks

869
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: a ben on the if you've got your pen up,

870
00:45:58,040 --> 00:45:58,439
Speaker 1: do you want.

871
00:45:58,360 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 2: To say something?

872
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 4: Yes, if anyone wants to hear more about Joel Sadi's

873
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 4: story that they haven't already heard prior to today episode

874
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 4: one two five three titled when.

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00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 3: Life Gives You a Shit.

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00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 4: Sandwich, so you can hear more about his accident, recovery

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00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 4: and all of that.

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00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a good chat. That was a good chat.

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00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 2: Thank you, Tiff. That's why we have you, see you

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00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 2: Tame