1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Doctor Chris Webster's instincts was spot on with. 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 2: The killer mushroom cook. Doctor Chris Webster said. 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 3: Dost Chris Webster was This Webster treated Aaron Patterson after 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 3: that fatal mushroom lunch. Chris Webster has just clocked on 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 3: for a twenty four hour shift. 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 4: He's become the man of the moment in the trial 7 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:23,159 Speaker 4: of Aaron Patterson. Chris Webster, the doctor who was on 8 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 4: call when the guest of the deadly lunch went to 9 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 4: Lean and Gatha Hospital. He said a lot on the stand, 10 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 4: but he has said a lot more since. I'm Brooke 11 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 4: Greebert Craig and this is the mushroom Cook. Hi, Laura. 12 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 4: Nice to have you back in Melbourne with me. 13 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 5: Yes, it's great to be back home. It's crazy to 14 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 5: think that for three months we were effectively living in 15 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 5: more Well. And it's actually been brought to my attention 16 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 5: that we've maybe been saying it wrong this whole time. 17 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 5: I've heard that the locals call it more so less 18 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 5: more well, more moral the more you know. 19 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 4: If only I had known that eleven. 20 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 5: Weeks ago, it would have been helpful. 21 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 4: So as a court reporter, how are you feeling after 22 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:05,839 Speaker 4: covering the trial. 23 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, we actually haven't seen each other for a few days. Obviously, 24 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 5: we were together on Monday, and then after the verdict 25 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 5: came down and we finished work that night, we both 26 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 5: went our separate ways. But it's been a big few days, 27 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 5: hasn't it. 28 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 4: Yes, I think it's safe to say that we were 29 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 4: both kind of on an adrenaline rush for a couple 30 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 4: of days. But now that's kind of calming down. 31 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, it is. I actually think the adrenaline only wore 32 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 5: off for me yesterday. There's been a lot of work 33 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 5: we've all been doing after the verdict, a lot of 34 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 5: stories we've been writing, and a lot of things that 35 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 5: have come out since the day we found out that 36 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 5: Erin was a murderer. And at the center of one 37 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 5: of those stories was the straight shooting doctor Webster. And 38 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 5: you actually spoke to him nearly a month ago, isn't 39 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 5: that right, Brooke. 40 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 4: Yes, that's right. So I did a phone interview with 41 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 4: doctor Webster on a Saturday morning on June fourteen, So 42 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 4: this was three weeks before we received a verdict, and 43 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 4: obviously we couldn't publish the story at the time. This 44 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 4: was me really preparing for after we got a verdict, 45 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 4: and you know, at this point in time, we didn't 46 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 4: really know when the trial would actually wrap up. I've 47 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 4: never spoken to doctor Webster before, so I really didn't 48 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 4: know how much he would say. But as I discovered 49 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 4: during the interview, he was really quite candid with the 50 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 4: words that he used. And we published in the Herald 51 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 4: Sun the day after the verdict, so on the Tuesday, 52 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 4: and from there, doctor Webster was really inundated with media 53 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,839 Speaker 4: requests from across the country. I know he did TV interviews, 54 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 4: he did print stories, he also did radio interviews, and 55 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 4: to his credit, he did them all. But I do 56 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 4: believe that he was really the most candid with me. 57 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 5: And you were telling me earlier that you actually touched 58 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:52,839 Speaker 5: base with him today. 59 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 4: Yes I did, And just to break the fourth war 60 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 4: with our listeners, Doctor Webster gave permission for us to 61 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 4: use the audio grabs from that phone interview that I 62 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 4: did with him three weeks ago, So in this podcast 63 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 4: episode we will throw to those throughout. The interview did 64 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 4: go for more than one hour, so I will flag 65 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 4: we can't include all of it, and as I mentioned before, 66 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 4: this was a phone interview, so the audio may not 67 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 4: be the best, but we've cleaned it up as best 68 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 4: we can. 69 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 5: But there's also been a development, that's right. 70 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 4: Unfortunately, Doctor Webster was telling me that members of the 71 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 4: public have actually reported him to OPERA, which is the 72 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 4: Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency, and apparently they reported him 73 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 4: for the language that he used during the interview that 74 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 4: he did with me. So clearly members of the public 75 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 4: are not happy with that, And to be honest with you, 76 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 4: I think it's quite unfair here. We have a doctor 77 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 4: who has been a witness in such a high profile 78 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 4: murder trial and hasn't really had the opportunity to speak 79 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 4: about his experience, and personally, I think just because he swears, 80 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 4: it doesn't make him any less of a doctor who 81 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 4: is fit to do his profession. 82 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, I one hundred percent agree. But as we do 83 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 5: take our listeners through the interview you did with him, Brook, 84 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 5: we will probably have to flag that our bleeper will 85 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 5: be getting a workout. Yes, that's right, So let's start 86 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 5: from the top to take our listeners back to the timeline. 87 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 5: Doctor Webster first enters the frame when Heather and Ian 88 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 5: arrive at Lee and Gatha Hospital the day after the 89 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 5: lunch he then attended to Erin when she rocked up 90 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 5: at the hospital the following day. 91 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 4: Here's what he said. 92 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 2: The thing about Aaron a person arriving, is that. 93 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 3: I was like people in the department at that time 94 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 3: that Aaron arrived that was pretty frantically rushing around and 95 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 3: getting the treatment, the best treatment that we had available 96 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 3: to us organized. 97 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: For Ian and Heather. 98 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 3: And when you have got a lot of things that 99 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 3: a lot of people need to be doing, the what 100 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 3: you do is a doctor that oftenly becomes a sort 101 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 3: of delegation kind of you're not necessarily you know, I 102 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 3: could put a can your in, but the nurses are 103 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 3: putting the can your in you, So you're kind of 104 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 3: it's like a footy coach. I suppose you're sort of 105 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 3: keeping an eye on what everyone's doing and making sure 106 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 3: it's all flowing in the right direction. So my hands 107 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 3: were not busy doing something. And the doorbell, which is 108 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 3: actually the doorbell more accurately sort of it's like a 109 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 3: nurse call button, you know, when the patient's lying in 110 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 3: the hospital bed and they press that button to call 111 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 3: the notes. 112 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 2: So that's that's pretty similar to. 113 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 3: How the kids getting called a doorbell, and the description 114 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 3: of the court trial. But it's really a nurse call bell, 115 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 3: so it'll continue ringing until someone goes and stops it. 116 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 3: And it's hard enough to concentrate with all the alarms 117 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 3: and beefs and bells and whistles in urging care. So 118 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 3: I went to find out who was responsible for pressing 119 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 3: the doorbell, and when the person, the woman that was 120 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 3: sitting there, said the reason that she was there is 121 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 3: i've got gastro. The first thing I said after that 122 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 3: was just to make sure it was like a reeflex, 123 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 3: I suppose, what's your name? 124 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 2: And she said Aaron. 125 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 3: Purpison, and so I didn't recognize her. I didn't. 126 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 2: I didn't know who the woman was. 127 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 3: And when she said the name Aaron Patterson, having just 128 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 3: had a pretty shocking phone call from Dr Bart about 129 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 3: deathcout mushrooms, to have her sitting there, I was like, oh, okay, 130 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 3: but it gets you into the departments, which I mean 131 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 3: I sort of bypassed some protocols. Only a stable patient 132 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 3: that's sitting in the waiting area comfortably breathing and clearly 133 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 3: conscious and alert and not distressed. Normally, a patient my 134 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 3: dad might wait quite a while before being brought in 135 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 3: to the carbon and they would be assessed by a 136 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 3: trioch nurse first, but the I bypassed all that and 137 00:07:59,040 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 3: just brought straight. 138 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 4: He went on to say, at the point that she 139 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 4: said Aaron Patterson, I was like, okay, we've got the 140 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 4: fifth member of the meal here. 141 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 3: We can we can now concentrate on giving it all 142 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 3: the members of the luncheon the right treatment. But that 143 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 3: that sort was a fairly short lived. When I said 144 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 3: to her, uh, you know, concerned about deskot mushrooms, where 145 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 3: did you get the mushrooms? When she said, as opposed 146 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 3: to well, I'd pick my own mushrooms. 147 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 2: I've always picked my own mushrooms. 148 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 3: If she had said that, it would have been a 149 00:08:53,400 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 3: very different sort of mindset for me, because there would 150 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 3: have been that sort of instant kind of assumption that 151 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 3: it was all a tragic accident. But she, like a 152 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 3: said in court, and then she guess that single word answer. 153 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 4: And in words that will stick with me for a 154 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 4: long time. He went on to tell me, so. 155 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 3: Once once she says that answer, yeah, my thoughts were, 156 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 3: holy shit. 157 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 2: You can do it. He's crazy been to view poison 158 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 2: the wall. 159 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 4: So as our listeners can hear Doctor Webster was quite 160 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 4: candid and didn't really hold back at all. He went 161 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 4: on to say that that moment was a turning point 162 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 4: for him. 163 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 2: Everything for me changed at that moment. 164 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 3: That's from that moment, Oh you're okay, So you're a 165 00:09:53,480 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 3: sociopathic knut bad and you've done this, and every everything 166 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 3: I do from this point is obviously going to be Well, 167 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 3: everything I had done to that point and everything I 168 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 3: was going to do, I knew from that moment that 169 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 3: she said were worse that everything would be very closely 170 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 3: scrutinized under the microscope in the aftermath, because from that moment, 171 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 3: I knew, well, this is going to be a. 172 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 2: Trial, this is going to be charges, this is going 173 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 2: to be. 174 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 5: This is going to be a serpus So, as we 175 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 5: know from the trial, Aaron left hospital after only five 176 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 5: minutes of being there. Dr Webster then made that crucial 177 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 5: call to Triple zero. The jury heard that Dr Webster 178 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 5: made that call so police could perform a welfare check 179 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 5: on Erin, but it's pretty clear that by this stage 180 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 5: he also had his suspicions. Now Brook, our listeners actually 181 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 5: heard one of our colleagues voice that call in one 182 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 5: of our previous podcast episodes, but now we can finally 183 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 5: play you the actual audio of that call after it 184 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 5: was released by the Supreme Court. 185 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 1: This is doctor Chris Webster calling from Lee and Gatha 186 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: Hospital and I have a concern regarding a patient that 187 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: presented here earlier but has left the building and is 188 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: potentially exposed to a fatal toxin from mushroom poisoning. And 189 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: I've tried several times to get hold of her on 190 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: her mobile phone. So before I get all that information, 191 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: in what address do you need the police to attend, 192 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 1: doctor Chris? So, well, should I give the hospital address 193 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: or the address. 194 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 2: Of the patient if you know where they are their address? 195 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: I have the address of the patient. 196 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 5: Their conversation continued. 197 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 2: What's her name? 198 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: So the last name is Patterson Pattsom. First name Aaron 199 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 1: EERI muse you have a dot of birth thirtys of 200 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: September nineteen seventy four. 201 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,239 Speaker 2: When did she present at hospital. 202 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: At eight five today? 203 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, mushroom poisoning, you said, yeah. 204 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: So there were five people that ate a meal on 205 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,719 Speaker 1: Saturday and two of them are in intensive care at 206 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: dand in On Hospital. Two have just been transferred from 207 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: lang at the hospital to dand in on hospital and 208 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: Aaron presented this morning with symptoms of poisoning. 209 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 5: So this recording was one of dozens of exhibits released 210 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 5: to the media on the day of the verdict. It 211 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 5: was actually almost overwhelming. You and I were outside court 212 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 5: working on our laptops, and then all of a sudden, 213 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 5: I got this email and there was a link to 214 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 5: again dozens of exhibits. So our listeners would have remembered 215 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 5: us describing the exhibits on the podcast, for example, the 216 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 5: CCTV footage of Erin at the BP in Coldermeat and 217 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,959 Speaker 5: the photos of the leftovers of the beef Wellington. So 218 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 5: it's been really nice to finally be able to publish 219 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 5: these exhibits for people to look and to listen themselves. 220 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 4: Yes, I think people being able to actually get the 221 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 4: visual for themselves is really important in the storytelling of 222 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 4: the case. So, as we know, Aaron came back to 223 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 4: the hospital after more than one hour and doctor Webster 224 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 4: saw her again. Here's what he said about that interaction. 225 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 3: So, knowing having perused her file in preparation through the 226 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 3: triple zero call, knowing that she had children, I asked 227 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 3: about the children and whether they had eaten any left over, 228 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 3: so that that information was provided as a result of 229 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 3: direct questioning. It wasn't volunteered or offered up by Aaron. 230 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 3: And then of course how the kids have eaten poisonous 231 00:13:54,160 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 3: as well? So and that's why I put the it's 232 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 3: into children that the children were medically desisted as well. 233 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 4: He then went on to say he. 234 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 3: Was talking to her about deathtat mushrooms and she wasn't 235 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 3: freaking out about the safety of her children. 236 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 2: You know my thought looking at her eyes, you know 237 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 2: you're I don't know what planet you're on. It's not Earth. 238 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 2: So in other words, I thought she was disturbed. 239 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 4: And as you can hear, once again he is quite candid. 240 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 3: But basically I thought, oh shit, you did it and 241 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 3: you're crazy, and. 242 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 2: Oh you know this is going to get used. 243 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 5: And if I remember correctly, Brooke, Dr Webster actually said 244 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 5: that it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to 245 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 5: be a witness in a high profile murder trial. But 246 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 5: he said it didn't come without regrets. Is that right? 247 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 3: Yes? 248 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 4: So doctor Webster treated in and Heather and he told 249 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 4: me that he wished that he probed heaven more when 250 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 4: she was in hospital, here's what he said. 251 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 3: Heather said to me at one stage, I said, I'm 252 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 3: not much of a birthday celebration, so I'm sort of 253 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 3: fishing like a barrister. I suppose not much of a 254 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 3: birthday celebration. And Heather just sort of her eyes went downcast, 255 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 3: and she sort of shook her head a little bit 256 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 3: and said, oh, it wasn't It wasn't a birthday celebration. 257 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 2: And she didn't elaborate. 258 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 3: And I will never forgive myself for not asking further 259 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 3: questions because I realized that I had. 260 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 2: Hit upon something. 261 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 4: During our interview, doctor Webster said some incredibly kind words 262 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 4: about the lunch guests, but in particular about Heather. 263 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 3: I think what's been lost a bit in the trial 264 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 3: is just how humble and decent these people are that 265 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 3: were the victors, and a lot of people in urgent 266 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 3: here quite aggressive, hostile, even when you're trying to help them. 267 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 2: As the doctor so said, Heather to be. 268 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 3: Pushed into the back of an ambulance and just before 269 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 3: the door closed for her to say to me, thank you, 270 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 3: thank you, Doctor Webson for all your care. 271 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. 272 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 3: That the look on her face, the sincerity of her 273 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 3: gratitude and the door sort of closing on her a 274 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 3: bit like the final scene and the Godfather. 275 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, that'll haunt me, that will halt me forever. 276 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 5: Another part of the interview I remember finding interesting was 277 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 5: that Dr Webster said Aaron greased him off when he 278 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 5: gave evidence. 279 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 4: Yes, you know what, this didn't actually surprise me. I 280 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 4: think when you and I were both in the court 281 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 4: observing Aaron, we could see that she most of the 282 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 4: time had a really stern look on her face. Here's 283 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 4: what Doctor Webster said about that. 284 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 3: I was so nervous about giving my evidence, and I 285 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 3: looked over and then and these sort of searing hot 286 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 3: daggers shot out of her eyes and went straight into 287 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 3: my brain. But she didn't just briefly off. She greased 288 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 3: off my wife. She a greased off the Mitchell who 289 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 3: drove children and me to court that day. So and 290 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 3: we all were all sort of debriefed in the car ride. 291 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 2: On the way home. 292 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 3: Did you look at any stage she came in the 293 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 3: stinky stink I could, So there was all a lot 294 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 3: of anger and hostility in her look when she was 295 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 3: incarcerated and. 296 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 2: Sitting in the. 297 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 3: Accused dock. A triple word of trol so a different flavor, 298 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 3: but the same level of severe sort of disturbance and 299 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 3: normal sort of human behavior and personality. 300 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 5: As our listeners will know. Ultimately, the prosecution did not 301 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 5: provide a motive to the jury. Since the verdicts, everyone 302 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 5: has been drawing their own conclusions. 303 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 4: Yes, you and I have had many discussions, just like 304 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 4: I have had with Dows, as we mentioned on yesterday's episode. 305 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 4: But Doctor Webster also drew his own conclusions as to 306 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 4: why he thinks that Aaron murdered her lunch guests. 307 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 3: I think that the reason is he did something so 308 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 3: extreme is because she wouldn't see any other way to 309 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 3: have life the way she wanted it. 310 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 2: Without these people are being out of the picture. 311 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 4: He continued. 312 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 2: I think once she got onto. 313 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 3: The train track that led to the destination, that there 314 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 3: was no ability for her to get offered, and a 315 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 3: sort of someone coming up and just slipping across the 316 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 3: face and saying you break out of it, or maybe 317 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 3: having some electorc renvulsive through shey or something. That she's 318 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 3: obviously an intelligent, capable individual. That and I would say 319 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 3: that the planning and that strategizing and foraging and chopping 320 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 3: things up and all of that probably gave her a 321 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 3: sense of calm. It probably acted a bit like a 322 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 3: anti depressant for like a bit low value or something 323 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 3: that you know, it's time she did something that brought 324 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 3: her closer to this life that was free of these people. 325 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 2: That were so bad to her. 326 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 4: And with doctor Webster in the public eye this week, 327 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 4: we just want to wish him well. And doctor Webster, 328 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 4: if you're listening, thank you so much for talking to 329 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 4: me all those weeks. 330 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 5: Ago, well said Brook. And with that we're off for today, 331 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 5: but we'll be back tomorrow for another episode. 332 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 4: Stay tuned.