Speaker 1: Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bromwan contains coarse
Speaker 1: language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to
Speaker 1: you by Me Headley Thomas and The Australian. The acclaimed
Speaker 1: actor Simon Baker, a crime solving EmPATH in The Mentalist,
Speaker 1: grew up in this place. Lennox Head, Oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're the one they were telling me about the psychic.
Speaker 3: He's not here.
Speaker 4: He's here, and there's no such thing as psychics.
Speaker 1: The Hollywood star played the role of a troubled dad
Speaker 1: doing his best in the Netflix series Boys Swallows Universe,
Speaker 1: based on my friend Trent Dalton's remarkable novel of the
Speaker 1: same name. Simon Baker drove down the Coast Road and
Speaker 1: Memory Lane with sixty Minutes reporter Alison Langdon when he
Speaker 1: returned to his dark brick childhood home. Here it's going
Speaker 1: to somehow have an impact on you and affect you
Speaker 1: in a way when you're living here.
Speaker 5: The power of what this landscape is, it's got this
Speaker 5: intensity in it.
Speaker 1: Just a little farther north, the actor Chris Hemsworth often
Speaker 1: favors the famed Seven Mile Beach near his home off
Speaker 1: Broken Head. Celebrities live something close to a normal life
Speaker 1: in these parts. They're not hassled or ogled by the locals.
Speaker 1: Mary Nolan holds the stop go sign outside one of
Speaker 1: the schools from time to time as a part time job,
Speaker 1: and he used to see Chris Hemsworth come to collect
Speaker 1: his children, Maurray and Deb's son Dale sees Chris in
Speaker 1: the water when he's back from making movies and TV
Speaker 1: action series.
Speaker 6: Yea, Dale's often said to me, surf with Chris emsoft today.
Speaker 7: Yeah, he's just a normal every day go Really, he
Speaker 7: seems very down to earth.
Speaker 8: Good on him.
Speaker 7: It's probably good that he's living out him, not in
Speaker 7: the la buscle and bustle.
Speaker 1: The surfing culture is very strong in Lenox and while
Speaker 1: many in the community have strong views about him, surfers
Speaker 1: do respect John. He is knowledgeable about conditions and weather.
Speaker 1: He's neither aggressive nor greedy when it comes to competing
Speaker 1: for waves. But they've also got a nickname for him.
Speaker 1: Bromwin's friend from the early nineteen nineties, Denise Barnard, shared
Speaker 1: it with me as we sat at a table in
Speaker 1: her Lennox Head courtyard overlooking a plunge pool.
Speaker 6: John's very well known out in the surf.
Speaker 4: How is he well known?
Speaker 9: They call him JTM, JTM John the Murderer JTM.
Speaker 6: That's what he's known as.
Speaker 1: Does he know that?
Speaker 10: I don't know.
Speaker 9: I think a lot of people have the idea that
Speaker 9: she's done something sinister with Bromwin way back then, and
Speaker 9: he's got away with it and he's store outliving the life,
Speaker 9: and that's what.
Speaker 11: They call him.
Speaker 1: Shortly before this podcast series began, one surfer asked John
Speaker 1: a brutally blunt question. Murray heard about the exchange and
Speaker 1: shared it with me. Did you kill your wife, mate,
Speaker 1: the surfer asked John, No way. John replied she was crazy.
Speaker 1: She ran off his story that Bromwin, in his words,
Speaker 1: was not right in the head, that she was like
Speaker 1: her mother. Barbara has endured three decades. Here's Bromwin's good
Speaker 1: friend deb again, recalling conversations with John in May and
Speaker 1: June nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 7: He kept trying to paint the picture that she was schizophrenic.
Speaker 7: You know a mother schizophrenic. You know your sister sitzophrenic.
Speaker 7: He kept saying this to me, right, and.
Speaker 4: I said, no, this is why she was alive.
Speaker 6: After she gone.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 7: He tried to paint this picture of Bromwyn to me
Speaker 7: she'd lost the marbles, and I thought, no, she was stressed,
Speaker 7: but I didn't see any evidence of being schizophrenic and
Speaker 7: living with him. She was obviously very nervous, like if
Speaker 7: she was having someone over for coffee, she would actually
Speaker 7: ask me could they come down here in case John
Speaker 7: come home and she had people there.
Speaker 1: I've been studying a one page document typed in Ballener
Speaker 1: police station at the time John Winfield reported his wife
Speaker 1: as missing. It is an account of the purported facts
Speaker 1: and circumstances as John explained them to the police officer
Speaker 1: who was on duty, Julie Donovan. Officer Donovan's name and
Speaker 1: badge number are on this document. Each relevant section has
Speaker 1: been filled with black type, as you would expect. It's
Speaker 1: dated May twenty seven. It includes Bromwin's date of birth
Speaker 1: in late April, her height of five foot eight which
Speaker 1: is one hundred and seventy three centimeters, her fair complexion,
Speaker 1: her green or hazel eye color, and what was described
Speaker 1: as her racial appearance of Caucasian white in the checkbox
Speaker 1: for hair color. The option of colored or dyed is
Speaker 1: noted in another checkbox asking whether there are fears for
Speaker 1: the safety of the missing person. It states no. The
Speaker 1: name of Bromwin's GP, doctor Christopher Mitchell, and his medical
Speaker 1: practice are also noted on the form. Then there's a
Speaker 1: narrative of a few hundred words at the foot of
Speaker 1: the page. I've talked to police contacts about this section
Speaker 1: and they say that it is based almost entirely on
Speaker 1: the initial account provided by the person who went into
Speaker 1: the station to make the report to in this case,
Speaker 1: John Winfield. In the narrative, Bromwin is referred to as
Speaker 1: a POI, and that's an abbreviation for person of interest.
Speaker 1: You are going to hear a voice actor who will
Speaker 1: say the words.
Speaker 12: Person of interest was last seen at nine thirty pm
Speaker 12: on sixteen May nineteen ninety three, after making several phone
Speaker 12: calls from the above address after husband Jonathan was in Sydney.
Speaker 12: Apparently the two had been officially separated since twenty two
Speaker 12: March nineteen ninety three. On the night of sixteen May,
Speaker 12: the person of interest had a conversation with her ex
Speaker 12: husband and informed him that she was leaving. She stated
Speaker 12: that she was leaving and going for a couple of
Speaker 12: weeks holiday.
Speaker 1: In the first notification to police. John has asserted that
Speaker 1: Bromwyn had said she was having a break of a fortnight,
Speaker 1: whereas he told Broman's brother Andy and sister in law Michelle,
Speaker 1: as as well as Debbie and Murray, that she was
Speaker 1: going for a break of a few days. Here's how
Speaker 1: Michelle described it in episode four.
Speaker 13: When he first spoke, he was going down the lines
Speaker 13: of she's walked out and left, and she's left me
Speaker 13: with the kids, and then it switched to she needed
Speaker 13: a break for a few days. She's gone away for
Speaker 13: a few days to get ahead together.
Speaker 1: There's something else that's off about the dates and timings.
Speaker 1: According to the account being given by John to police,
Speaker 1: Bromwan was going away for a couple of weeks, which
Speaker 1: would have meant that by the end of the month
Speaker 1: May thirty, he would have expected her to return to
Speaker 1: the house and to her children. On his account, the
Speaker 1: one he gave to the police, which was different to
Speaker 1: the one he gave to her family and friends, Bronwin
Speaker 1: was not even missing when he made the May twenty
Speaker 1: seven missing person report. Did it occur to the police
Speaker 1: to question what was really going on, to dig into
Speaker 1: whether Broman's family, particularly her brother Andy and Broman's friends
Speaker 1: had pushed John to make the report in the first
Speaker 1: place because they understood this was very unusual behavior. The
Speaker 1: next line in the missing person report, based on John
Speaker 1: Winfield's information to Ballina Police officer Julie Donovan, is remarkable.
Speaker 12: On eighteen May nineteen ninety three, the person of interest
Speaker 12: telephoned her ex husband's daughter, Jodi Lynn Winfield at her
Speaker 12: salon at fifty seven Flinders Road, Woolaware, and informed her
Speaker 12: that she was in Queensland and that she was not
Speaker 12: coming back.
Speaker 1: If accurate, this line would be a powerful indication to
Speaker 1: police that Bromin was alive and well, and that although
Speaker 1: Broman had not made any contact with her brother, or
Speaker 1: her mother, or her daughter's or her half sister, or
Speaker 1: her friends and neighbors, or her employer, she had, according
Speaker 1: to John, telephoned her stepdaughter, Jody, the eighteen year old
Speaker 1: with whom Bromwin had argued on the telephone. Because of
Speaker 1: the fact that Broman and her girls had moved back
Speaker 1: into the house at Sandstone Crescent, Jody's work telephone number
Speaker 1: at the hair salon in the Shire in Sydney where
Speaker 1: she was working was typed on the form I spoke
Speaker 1: to Broman's brother Andy about the purported telephone call to
Speaker 1: the hair salon. I only want to know what you
Speaker 1: clearly remember the missing person report that the police filled
Speaker 1: out after John visited Ballana police says that a phone
Speaker 1: call was received in Sydney.
Speaker 4: It's really significant.
Speaker 1: It's staying effectively that Bromwin was alive after John has
Speaker 1: left the house. What do you know about this purported
Speaker 1: phone call by to Jody at the hair salon in Sydney.
Speaker 11: We received word through John about a phone call that
Speaker 11: came to the salon on the Tuesday. Michelle had rung
Speaker 11: me to say supposedly Bromwin had rung Jody salon. And
Speaker 11: I got home and I thought, wow, how wei was
Speaker 11: at and tadd Michelle. I then left and drove down
Speaker 11: to the salon at all aware and parked across the
Speaker 11: road and waited for my last client to walk out.
Speaker 11: And I went and knocked on the jaw and introduced
Speaker 11: myself and I said, what's this about Bromwin Winfield supposedly
Speaker 11: ringing the salon today? And the lady at the salon said,
Speaker 11: I don't know whether it was Bromwin or not, but
Speaker 11: am rang the salon and said, tell Jody, I'm okay,
Speaker 11: I'm in Queensland and I'm not coming back.
Speaker 10: Who was that woman?
Speaker 11: I believed that person to be Tanya Robertson.
Speaker 1: You thought it was really weird that this telephone call
Speaker 1: had purportedly been made by Bromman. Why did you believe
Speaker 1: then that that was really weird?
Speaker 11: Michelle had already said to me. Why would Bromwin ring
Speaker 11: the salon knowing that Tuesday was the day that Jody
Speaker 11: went to tape. Jody wasn't even at the salon that day,
Speaker 11: But how would Broman know that she used to talk
Speaker 11: to Jody all the time. Bromwin knew what day she
Speaker 11: was able to contact Jody or not.
Speaker 1: You said that Tanya Robertson told you that she wasn't
Speaker 1: sure whether or not it was Bromin's voice.
Speaker 10: Why would she volunteer that to you.
Speaker 11: To tell you the truth? I don't know. She just
Speaker 11: said it was a female voice and didn't want to
Speaker 11: confirm that it was Bromwin. Did she know Bromin's voice?
Speaker 11: I would believe so. Roman could have rung there numerous times.
Speaker 11: It just seems an odd thing for her to mention.
Speaker 11: I'm not sure whether or not it was Bromwin.
Speaker 1: If the person whose calling says I'm Bromwin, why would
Speaker 1: she ring Jodie.
Speaker 11: And not ring an immediate member of her family to
Speaker 11: say that she was okay? That just doesn't make any
Speaker 11: sense to us, and it never did at the time,
Speaker 11: and it still doesn't to this day.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing, Andy, you've gone in on Tuesday,
Speaker 1: May eighteen.
Speaker 10: You've spoken to Tanya.
Speaker 1: She can't confirm whether or not the person who called
Speaker 1: was Bromin. You don't hear any more about it. Then
Speaker 1: on May twenty seven, so another nine days later, the
Speaker 1: missing person report is made by John and in that
Speaker 1: report it stated as a matter of fact that it
Speaker 1: was Bromin who made the call. Did you walk away
Speaker 1: from that salon believing that a call had been made
Speaker 1: by someone representing herself as Brommin.
Speaker 11: Yes, correct, Yes, one hundred percent. Told me that a
Speaker 11: phone call was made to the salon and it was
Speaker 11: a female voice. For words to me were I could
Speaker 11: not verify whether it was Bromwin. Tell Jody, I'm in
Speaker 11: Queensland and I'm not coming home straight away. I thought
Speaker 11: none of that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Do you know now why you didn't yourself go to
Speaker 1: the homicide squad and say, I think something really serious
Speaker 1: has gone down here.
Speaker 11: These were just slow culminating facts that made absolutely no sense.
Speaker 1: When you see that missing person report and read it, now,
Speaker 1: what do you believe it's trying to do?
Speaker 11: I believe it's trying to falsify a proof of life.
Speaker 11: After the Sunday night at the house.
Speaker 1: Glenn Taylor, the detective sergeant who picked up the case
Speaker 1: and started a thorough investigation in nineteen ninety eight, asked
Speaker 1: Jody Winfield about this purported call from Bromwin to the salon.
Speaker 1: These are Jody's words from the police statement Jody made
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety eight, but it's not her voice.
Speaker 14: The following Tuesday, eighteenth of May nineteen ninety three, was
Speaker 14: my rostered day off work. About lunchtime, Michelle, my boss,
Speaker 14: told me that Bronwin had rung and spoken to Tenurerobertson
Speaker 14: at the salon and said to her, can I speak
Speaker 14: to Jody. Tanya said she's not here, it's her day off.
Speaker 14: She said that Bronwin then said tell her I'm never
Speaker 14: coming back and for her to watch over the kids.
Speaker 14: She then hung up. I would have thought that Bronwin
Speaker 14: would have rung me at home because she knew that
Speaker 14: Tuesday was my day off, although she could have rung
Speaker 14: and left a message at the salon because we'd been
Speaker 14: arguing and maybe she didn't want to speak to me.
Speaker 14: I told Dad about the phone call, and he thought
Speaker 14: that it was just her blowing off hot air. He
Speaker 14: thought that when he went home she would just turn up.
Speaker 14: Dad doesn't talk about Bronwyn much. He doesn't bring it
Speaker 14: up at all. The only way he'll talk about it
Speaker 14: is if I bring it up. He's definite that one
Speaker 14: day she'll turn up on the front doorstep and attempt
Speaker 14: to take Crystal and Lauren. He's positive that she's still
Speaker 14: alive somewhere and will suddenly reappear.
Speaker 1: When Tanya Robertson was questioned by police in nineteen ninety eight,
Speaker 1: she had no recollection of receiving a telephone call in
Speaker 1: the salon from anyone calling herself Bromwin Winfield, and Tanya
Speaker 1: said that she believed she would have remembered such a
Speaker 1: call if it had been made. Let's go back to
Speaker 1: the words in the missing person report in the Ballina
Speaker 1: Police Station dated May twenty seven, nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 12: Up to date, Jonathan has made several inquiries with the
Speaker 12: person who interests girlfriend and associated friends, and it appears
Speaker 12: that the person of interest has not been heard of
Speaker 12: or seen since, except for a brief interlude with the
Speaker 12: clairvoyant David.
Speaker 1: This claim of Bromwin catching up with the tarot card
Speaker 1: reader after May sixteen is the second assertion by John
Speaker 1: that Bromwin was alive. After he left the house and
Speaker 1: drove to Sydney that Sunday.
Speaker 12: Night, Jonathan approached the clairvoyant and he said that he
Speaker 12: did not keep diaries and vaguely could remember the person
Speaker 12: of interest. Up to date, only very few of the
Speaker 12: person of interests clothing had been taken from the house.
Speaker 1: The next sentence in the police missing person report indicates
Speaker 1: that no withdrawals have been made from Bromwin's account with
Speaker 1: the Commonwealth Bank while she has been on her supposed break.
Speaker 1: The report, which is based almost entirely on information from John,
Speaker 1: concludes with damaging inferences about Bromwyn's stability.
Speaker 12: It appears that the person of interest has come from
Speaker 12: a very deranged family and her mother has been treated
Speaker 12: for psychiatric problems for the last twenty.
Speaker 1: Years there it is bromwn Joy Winfield was labeled by
Speaker 1: association right from the start at Balener Police Station. Nobody
Speaker 1: else in Bromwin's life had the slightest indication that Bromwyn
Speaker 1: was mentally unwell in some kind of carbon copy of
Speaker 1: her mother Barbara.
Speaker 12: Apparently, when the person of interest was eleven years old,
Speaker 12: she had a nervous breakdown. However, it is not known
Speaker 12: whether she is suffering from any disorder at this stage
Speaker 12: and has not been treated for associated problems known to
Speaker 12: the husband.
Speaker 1: You've previously heard that Broman's GP doctor Mitchell, saw Bromman
Speaker 1: at his surgery on Friday, May fourteenth because she had
Speaker 1: sprained her left hand, and doctor Mitchell had treated broman
Speaker 1: by applying a splint. He did not notice anything unusual
Speaker 1: about her manner. The reference from John Winfield to a
Speaker 1: purported mental health event two decades earlier, when Bromwan was
Speaker 1: eleven years old was something I had not read or
Speaker 1: heard about before in all the files and interviews for
Speaker 1: this podcast investigation. Bromman's brother Andy Reid told me there
Speaker 1: was no nervous breakdown when Bromin was aged eleven or
Speaker 1: any time after, and there are also references to Bromwin's
Speaker 1: mental health or your family's mental health. There's a claim
Speaker 1: there that Bromwin's also had a mental breakdown or a
Speaker 1: nervous breakdown when she's aged eleven.
Speaker 10: What's that about?
Speaker 11: At no time can I ever remember through our childhood
Speaker 11: that Bromwin was treated for any form of mental illness, And.
Speaker 10: What about through her adulthood?
Speaker 11: Again the same No, no psychologists, no psychiatrists. I do
Speaker 11: not recall Bromwin ever been treated in any form or
Speaker 11: mental illness.
Speaker 1: But Bromwin did have some unhappy experiences through her childhood
Speaker 1: and teens. Andy tells me that things became particularly complicated
Speaker 1: when their mother, Barbara returned to Australia and re entered
Speaker 1: their lives.
Speaker 11: That's when we first found out that our stepmother actually
Speaker 11: wasn't our real mother.
Speaker 1: Bronwin's stepmother Jenny clashed with Bromwin.
Speaker 11: It was strained at times, but that was only in
Speaker 11: her later teen years. We had a perfectly normal childhood,
Speaker 11: as old family photos and that can prove of. We
Speaker 11: used to be always holidaying down in Sussex and let
Speaker 11: I have vivid memories of Mum taking us into We
Speaker 11: used to always go into jays to the carols.
Speaker 8: By candle light.
Speaker 11: Mum had a daughter in Melissa, had a son in me,
Speaker 11: and therefore I think we received the better treatment in
Speaker 11: the latter days.
Speaker 10: And you've made a reference a couple of times to Mum.
Speaker 1: But you're talking there about your legal stepmother, aren't you correct?
Speaker 11: Correct, because that's the person.
Speaker 10: That raisings and you believe that she was your mother.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, until you were about nine, Andy.
Speaker 11: Oh, I remember, Yeah, I was, would have been about
Speaker 11: ten or so you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry, So to remind you this. Friends of
Speaker 1: the family and relatives confirmed that Broman was excluded at times.
Speaker 1: She went to live with relatives, including her grandmother Nana Reid,
Speaker 1: instead of living in the family home.
Speaker 11: It was always in my memory after the fact of
Speaker 11: a bit of strine coming into the marriage. Once my
Speaker 11: real mom, Barbara was introduced into our lives.
Speaker 1: In the weeks before Broman disappeared, she wrote in those
Speaker 1: A four pages about some events in her childhood.
Speaker 15: Jenny couldn't stand me, went to stay with Nana Reid
Speaker 15: for a while after Pa Reed died. Nana read and
Speaker 15: I were okay for a while, but she had a
Speaker 15: full and had to be hospitalized. She went into a
Speaker 15: nursing home. I met my real mother in the middle
Speaker 15: of all of this. Also met Kim, spent holidays in
Speaker 15: Tasmania with her, and also spent weekends in town with her.
Speaker 15: It went with hotel, left school year ten, wanted to
Speaker 15: leave home, hated it.
Speaker 1: Nowhere in the missing person report does it say that
Speaker 1: Bromwin was an exceptionally dedicated mother and that it was
Speaker 1: completely out of character for her to leave her children.
Speaker 1: She had never left her children before. The report does
Speaker 1: not say that she had commitments. A solicitor's appointment on
Speaker 1: Monday May seventeen to talk about her separation from John
Speaker 1: and her plans to get the ball rolling on a
Speaker 1: property settlement. There was her work at Eden's Takeaway during
Speaker 1: the week the school pickups and drop offs for the children,
Speaker 1: Lauren and Crystal. Bromwin had not finished moving her things
Speaker 1: back from the rented townhouse in Byron Street to the
Speaker 1: home that John had built at Sandstone Crescent when she disappeared.
Speaker 1: She wanted to stop paying rent. There was a perfectly
Speaker 1: good home to live in. It was empty because John
Speaker 1: had taken work in Sydney. It defeated Bromwan's purpose to
Speaker 1: leave her things in the rental because it meant she
Speaker 1: would have had to keep paying for it. But the
Speaker 1: missing person report had none of those details. I've been
Speaker 1: talking to one of Bromwan's friends, Bridgeter. They bonded in
Speaker 1: high school and for years afterwards. Bridgeta made the wedding
Speaker 1: dress for Bromwin's marriage to John Winfield, but nobody was invited.
Speaker 1: John wanted a quiet ceremony in Lennox Head. Bridgeta has
Speaker 1: sent me photographs of them as young women, including with
Speaker 1: Cristel as a small child. I asked Bridgetter whether she
Speaker 1: had ever seen anything that made her one day, whether
Speaker 1: Bromwin had any mental health issues.
Speaker 2: She was a very good friend of mine. We went
Speaker 2: to high school together. After high school, we spent a
Speaker 2: lot of time together. I was with her when her
Speaker 2: babies were born. I was the person she reached out to,
Speaker 2: and she had a lot of trouble at home. My
Speaker 2: family put her in her home when she had nowhere
Speaker 2: to go, rent free for many months, just to get
Speaker 2: her on her feet again, just give her a place
Speaker 2: for a while till she could sort out what she
Speaker 2: wanted to do, and that she wanted a solid family.
Speaker 2: This trouble in the household was before John. She needed
Speaker 2: to move out of there. The stepmother didn't really like her.
Speaker 1: And do you know why, do you know what that
Speaker 1: was about?
Speaker 2: Well, she had another daughter to Bromwin's father, and I
Speaker 2: think she really loved that one because that was hers
Speaker 2: and Bromwin was from a previous marriage. I think she
Speaker 2: just didn't like Bromwin. Bromwin was pretty, he was nice looking.
Speaker 2: The father doated on her. I was there for her
Speaker 2: first wedding, second wedding. No one was allowed to go
Speaker 2: to that because John whisked her away and only had
Speaker 2: two elderly people as witnesses, so none of her friends
Speaker 2: could be there for that wedding. I was concerned because
Speaker 2: while I was with her, she always a happy, go
Speaker 2: lucky girl. You know, we used to go out dancing
Speaker 2: together and parties and she was a lovely person. And
Speaker 2: then when John came into the picture, she seemed to
Speaker 2: be a little bit more careful of what she spoke about,
Speaker 2: and she just looked a little bit uneasy, not like
Speaker 2: the normal happy boman I used to always witness. And
Speaker 2: she said to me that she didn't really go out
Speaker 2: very much, because he used to check how much petrol
Speaker 2: she'd used to try and work out where she's been.
Speaker 2: I found that very disturbing. She so wanted to have
Speaker 2: a family unit, She wanted her children to have father,
Speaker 2: She wanted a happy life.
Speaker 6: So I guess that's why she put up with her.
Speaker 2: But I didn't spend a lot of time because he
Speaker 2: didn't like her to be around her old friends. I
Speaker 2: didn't want to make any trouble. I was reading in
Speaker 2: the paper that John was trying to say that she
Speaker 2: had a mental issue. Now that is by farst really
Speaker 2: really wrong. I never saw her with a mental problem.
Speaker 2: I never seen her act like she had a mental problem.
Speaker 1: What do you think of the suggestion that romwin wanted
Speaker 1: to take a break and then just decided to stay
Speaker 1: away from her kids and home and family.
Speaker 16: Never, never, never, never, She loved her kids.
Speaker 1: After July, the Ballana police file for the nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: three investigation into the fate of missing mother of two
Speaker 1: Bromin Winfield goes eerily quiet for a couple of months.
Speaker 1: It seems there was no investigative activity until September two,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, when a two page police internal report was.
Speaker 17: Filed, and there's also that terrible one from discoun I'll
Speaker 17: show you that.
Speaker 4: This is how it starts.
Speaker 1: This date spoke to the cousin of the missing person,
Speaker 1: Megan Reid. We talked about it in one of my
Speaker 1: first meetings with Meghan at her home in Sydney.
Speaker 5: Meg, I'm just going to ask you to clearly and
Speaker 5: slowly read that statement.
Speaker 11: Okay.
Speaker 17: So as New South Wales Police State Intelligence Network Information
Speaker 17: report named GJ. Diskan Ranked Detector Sergeant Location Ballaner.
Speaker 1: This is not a signed statement by Megan Reid. No
Speaker 1: sign statements were taken by police in nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 1: It is a document based on a telephone conversation between
Speaker 1: Detective Graham Diskin and a woman who must have given
Speaker 1: him a name Meghan Read. But Meghan insists that it
Speaker 1: was not her on the telephone to the police officer
Speaker 1: in Balliner.
Speaker 17: This date spoke to the cousin of the missing person,
Speaker 17: Meghan Read. Meghan stated that she had twice spoken to
Speaker 17: the MP Missing Personal Belief only days before her disappearance,
Speaker 17: and only that she was able to recognize her voice,
Speaker 17: She would not have believed that, in fact it was
Speaker 17: Bromwin Meghan stated that the missing person was talking a
Speaker 17: lot of rubbish but did not seem to be affected
Speaker 17: by drugs or alcohol. Statements were made like you will
Speaker 17: all pay none of you will know what is happening,
Speaker 17: and other statements that meant nothing to Megan. Meghan stated
Speaker 17: that she has no fears about John Winfield being involved
Speaker 17: in anything untoward so far as his wife's disappearance is concerned.
Speaker 17: In the past, she has questioned Browin over her attitude
Speaker 17: and lies about John, and bromwin.
Speaker 6: Admitted that she was seeking attention.
Speaker 17: She believes that John is a great father and care
Speaker 17: of the two children involved in the marriage, and would
Speaker 17: do nothing to upset the children. Meghan also believes that
Speaker 17: in the past Bromwan was a user of cannabis and
Speaker 17: described her as a flower child, believing that she may
Speaker 17: well be living.
Speaker 6: On a commune somewhere.
Speaker 17: She also had a passion for money and was on
Speaker 17: the lookout for a rich male to care for her
Speaker 17: if the opportunity arose. Meighan stated that broman has always
Speaker 17: been upset over the death of her father some years
Speaker 17: ago and by the fact that she was luckless in
Speaker 17: his estate because he was a bankrupt at the time
Speaker 17: of his death, and all moneies went to paying outstanding debts. Bromwin,
Speaker 17: until just prior to her disappearance, has been supported for
Speaker 17: money from Meaghan's father, Bromwan's uncle. However, he has declined
Speaker 17: to continue in that vein and Bromwin was somewhat.
Speaker 6: Upset about that.
Speaker 17: Meghan also reiterated the fact act that her mother did
Speaker 17: exactly the same thing some years ago and believes that
Speaker 17: one day she will walk back into the family home
Speaker 17: as if nothing happened due to her state.
Speaker 6: Of mind at the time of the disappearance.
Speaker 4: Okay, and what do you say about this statement?
Speaker 17: Absolutely bullshit. I never ever would say that. I mean,
Speaker 17: my father never gave her a cent for starters, never did.
Speaker 17: You wouldn't never wouldn't give anyone money. Dad and John
Speaker 17: came up with her, told me that she was at
Speaker 17: the age of Aquarius commune.
Speaker 6: This is John's words.
Speaker 1: Megan believes that another unknown woman who knew that Detective
Speaker 1: Sergeant Graham Diskin was investigating Brohman's disappearance, has.
Speaker 17: Rung up and said that she's me I really do.
Speaker 17: That's the only way it is.
Speaker 6: Word for word.
Speaker 17: Stuff that John said to me and to my parents.
Speaker 17: So that's what he's saying. Now, it's just so far
Speaker 17: from true. I mean, I don't understand this at all.
Speaker 17: I didn't even know it existed until recently, and I'm
Speaker 17: very upset about it, which I didn't do it now.
Speaker 17: The coroner at the coronal inquest tried to subpoena Sergeant Discan,
Speaker 17: but unfortunately he went off on medical stress leave or
Speaker 17: something and he had medical exemption from being subpoened in court.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's try and step through parts of this statement
Speaker 1: just to work out whether that theory that someone misrepresenting
Speaker 1: themselves as you.
Speaker 4: Has actually been behind this.
Speaker 17: The thing is about her father being a bankrupt Well
Speaker 17: that's true, but you know, how would he know that?
Speaker 4: It has to come from an informed member of the family.
Speaker 17: Yes, I agree with you. Well, they're just so far
Speaker 17: from the truth. Though Robin was a very glamorous woman.
Speaker 17: She would never go to a commune. It's just ridiculous.
Speaker 17: As if I say that she had a mensa IQ.
Speaker 17: I mean, the girl was as shark as outtack.
Speaker 4: Why do you say she had a mensa IQ.
Speaker 6: Because my mother told me that she had her IQ.
Speaker 5: Taken Maddie can you go back to that intelligence report
Speaker 5: please and just tell me the phone number that he lists.
Speaker 18: Okay, Sarah too four four known.
Speaker 1: Maddie Walsh read the rest of the phone number as
Speaker 1: it existed in nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 5: It's noted here in handwriting it says Megan cousin.
Speaker 6: I did have that number. Yeah, just we change providers
Speaker 6: and moved.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So whoever has contacted disc and has given your phone number, Yes,
Speaker 5: that's correct, but you are not the informant for that.
Speaker 6: Absolutely not.
Speaker 17: I mean I'd have to have completely gone start raving mad.
Speaker 6: If you spoke to any single person that I.
Speaker 17: Know, they would be gobsmacked, because I mean, it's the
Speaker 17: opposite to what I've always maintained. I mean, I never
Speaker 17: even spoke to him. I tried to talk to Disband
Speaker 17: and he wouldn't take my calls. And he said to
Speaker 17: me that that was because Michelle and Andrew were the
Speaker 17: only ones that they were the representative of the Reed
Speaker 17: family that he would talk to.
Speaker 5: So do you believe that you spoke to him just
Speaker 5: on one or two occasions.
Speaker 6: I don't even know if I ever spoke to him.
Speaker 4: But didn't he tell you that he couldn't talk to
Speaker 4: you because.
Speaker 17: Andrew, well, somebody told me that. I don't know if
Speaker 17: it was actually him. I just rang up asking to
Speaker 17: speak to him, right, I don't know who it was
Speaker 17: who answered the phone?
Speaker 1: And when was the first time a statement was taken
Speaker 1: from you?
Speaker 6: Ninety eight?
Speaker 4: All right, so five years after that intelligence.
Speaker 17: Report nineteen ninety eight is the first time Eddie statements
Speaker 17: for Dagon.
Speaker 1: Whoever it was on the telephone two detective disc and
Speaker 1: she influenced investigations by police in nineteen ninety three, A
Speaker 1: purported family member declaring that John would not have done
Speaker 1: anything wrong and that Bromman was strangely emulating the disappearing
Speaker 1: act of her own mother, Barbara, aligned neatly with the
Speaker 1: path the police were already on. It's impossible to discover
Speaker 1: now the true origin of the information noted in the
Speaker 1: internal police document. And it's also complicated because some family
Speaker 1: members have fallen out with each other. Madison Walsh is
Speaker 1: aware of these difficulties and she helps me navigate through them.
Speaker 1: In your extended family, there are some well intentioned people.
Speaker 18: Yeah, one hundred percent, and it's really frustrating because sometimes
Speaker 18: it gets the better of them and it's hard to
Speaker 18: mellow it out. It's a lot of strong opinions, a
Speaker 18: lot of confident people, and it's it's hard.
Speaker 4: It's really hard.
Speaker 6: So I'm trying to take a.
Speaker 18: Kind of unbiased step back and just kind of observe
Speaker 18: what's in front of me.
Speaker 1: Megan Reid hasn't seen eye to eye with her cousin
Speaker 1: Andy Reid's wife Michelle for a long time.
Speaker 6: We used to see them.
Speaker 17: We'd have the Reed family Christmas on Boxing Day every
Speaker 17: year she married him. That was it too becau Xandra
Speaker 17: and I had not been on speaking terms for years
Speaker 17: because of his wife's getting interfering and doing the police
Speaker 17: not to talk to me and all the rest of it.
Speaker 17: But now he and I, I'm really good.
Speaker 1: Megan and Kim Marshall, Bromwin's half sister, haven't known each
Speaker 1: other long. Kim came to stay at Meghan's place.
Speaker 17: Kim is off on this clairvoyant route. She went on
Speaker 17: and on about it, But now we're getting along like a.
Speaker 6: House on fire.
Speaker 1: Andy Reid is candid about ups and downs. Andy also
Speaker 1: points out important differences between his mother, Barbara's mental health
Speaker 1: and her absence from his life and his sister Bromwin's
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three disappearance. Barbara went overseas with her mother,
Speaker 1: leaving Andy and Bromwin with their father for almost a decade, so.
Speaker 19: It was never as if Barbara ever disappeared and no
Speaker 19: one knew where she was. That's when she went to Europe,
Speaker 19: went to London and started in London and traveled around
Speaker 19: through while that, yeah, and then came back and then
Speaker 19: obviously settled in Hobart.
Speaker 1: I take your point that the context is very different.
Speaker 1: Why then, would people talking to the police in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety three when broman disappears even raise your mother's leaving.
Speaker 1: Why was it even raised and became part of police
Speaker 1: evidence if it was irrelevant.
Speaker 19: John had all the first contact with police. John had
Speaker 19: all direction of how the case was handled when information
Speaker 19: went to the police.
Speaker 8: Originally I didn't have any jurisdiction.
Speaker 19: John had jurisdiction over to the case, which is hence
Speaker 19: Wright it took me so long to get control and
Speaker 19: then the case did properly reviewed and investigated correctly without.
Speaker 8: All the stumbling blocks constantly being put in front of it.
Speaker 1: So your sense of it is that Discan hears from
Speaker 1: the husband who should have been a person of interest
Speaker 1: that his wife's mother did a disappearing act, and that
Speaker 1: puts the idea into Discan's mind. And then he follows
Speaker 1: up with you and Michelle and Megan and others asking
Speaker 1: questions about your mum's disappearance.
Speaker 4: Is that how you see it?
Speaker 8: That's the way I answer it.
Speaker 19: Yes, Yes, it was never ever Michelle's belief the problem
Speaker 19: would walk away from those two girls.
Speaker 1: And Megan, I mean, she wouldn't have done anything deliberately detrimental.
Speaker 4: She probably thought she was helping.
Speaker 11: Yeah, correct.
Speaker 19: I actually instructed the police not to talk to her anymore.
Speaker 19: Megan's always wanted to know who that person was. What
Speaker 19: did the police stop talking to?
Speaker 1: And he told me that he made this decision after
Speaker 1: he and Michelle were given some feedback by the detective
Speaker 1: Sergeant Graham Diskin in nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 19: And he said to me, every time I asked this
Speaker 19: fellow a question, he has an answer.
Speaker 4: It's as if he's prepared.
Speaker 8: Yeah, we thought it's got to be a way.
Speaker 19: How does he know or how is he so prepared
Speaker 19: to answer things all the time, which led to me
Speaker 19: to make some phone calls and start chasing up what
Speaker 19: was going on. And then that's when I found out
Speaker 19: that John had been in constant contact with Megan.
Speaker 8: So I put two and two together and thought, well.
Speaker 19: This guy's clever enough to be picking her brain for
Speaker 19: whatever the family's thinking, which Megan sort of now to
Speaker 19: this day describes as, Oh, yes, but you've got to
Speaker 19: keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer type.
Speaker 1: So here's Megan again.
Speaker 17: I'm the only one that remained in contact with him
Speaker 17: after Roman's disappearance, and my reasoning being was that it
Speaker 17: keeps your enemies closer than your fringe kind of thing
Speaker 17: to find out, so I could find out what was
Speaker 17: going on, and I continue to be in contact with
Speaker 17: him virtually daily up until October ninety four.
Speaker 20: I had an argument with Andrew just recently about this
Speaker 20: whole thing. Was Michelle in particular doesn't like us, and
Speaker 20: she has nothing to do with us, and she told
Speaker 20: the police not to have.
Speaker 8: Anything to do with myself.
Speaker 17: Andrew was the point of contact for the police, and
Speaker 17: they never listened to me. And Andrew apparently told them
Speaker 17: that I have ADHD it was a mental case not
Speaker 17: to listen to me, which is absolutely rubbish because I
Speaker 17: am quite the opposite. I'm very intelligent, I know what
Speaker 17: I'm saying. I am hyperactive, and I haven't had.
Speaker 20: My medication yet, so probably joining a million miles an. Now,
Speaker 20: the thing is, I have a photographic.
Speaker 8: Memory, of a brilliant memory.
Speaker 20: I can remember things like yesterday.
Speaker 19: She thought that she was doing the right thing, but
Speaker 19: in the end I perceived that she was just being
Speaker 19: bled for every bit of information or any thought that
Speaker 19: the family was thinking. And that gave him a means
Speaker 19: and a way to be able to explain things away constantly.
Speaker 19: I think that was quite detrimental to the early investigation.
Speaker 1: Tim Marshall spent a lot of time with her mother,
Speaker 1: Barbara kim Well, I wanted to talk to you about Barbara,
Speaker 1: your mother's mental health issues. Are you okay talking to
Speaker 1: me about that?
Speaker 21: It all starts with mum being a nurse. She was
Speaker 21: a very talented nurse. Mum very much supported Philip becoming
Speaker 21: a teacher and heading towards becoming a principal, and so
Speaker 21: she paid for a lot of the setup costs for
Speaker 21: their marriage and their home life, and she naturally then
Speaker 21: went on to have Bromwin. The culture back in those
Speaker 21: days was that men naturally went to the pub or
Speaker 21: they had a few drinks after work.
Speaker 11: As Bromwin moved.
Speaker 21: From being a baby to a toddler, Philip was not
Speaker 21: at home as much, and then she became pregnant with Andrew.
Speaker 21: Philip used to be absent from the home a lot,
Speaker 21: and so Mum would often catch him coming home late
Speaker 21: at night watering the levices in the garden and she'd
Speaker 21: have to say come inside, Philip, and then other nights
Speaker 21: she'd have to go and getting down from the pub.
Speaker 21: So Mum was feeling astraining her marriage. Andrew was then birthed,
Speaker 21: and then Mum felt she had developed postnatal depression after
Speaker 21: having Andrew. Whether she was also feeling depressed and unsupported
Speaker 21: being the mother of two small children, Mum had multiple
Speaker 21: crisis situations going on in her life. The birth of
Speaker 21: her second child, a husband that was estranging himself from
Speaker 21: the marriage, and then her father died and later on
Speaker 21: in life it's been explained to her that because she
Speaker 21: had so many competing crisis is going on, that's when
Speaker 21: her mental health became compromised and she probably had what
Speaker 21: they described as a breakdown. But Philip, in consultation with
Speaker 21: his parents, it had been expressed that no, you must
Speaker 21: have your wife back with you, you must get your
Speaker 21: family house in order, and so Philip actually said, no,
Speaker 21: you can only have a short time away, and Mum
Speaker 21: disagreed with that. He actually entered the house and he
Speaker 21: collected Andrew from the crib left the property with Andrew
Speaker 21: against Mum's permission. He already had Bromwin staying with him.
Speaker 21: And the words that have always remained in my head
Speaker 21: from the stories that were explained was that the lawyer
Speaker 21: advised that Mum would most likely be judged as an
Speaker 21: unfit mother due to the opinion ends of the Reed family,
Speaker 21: and that she perhaps should actually not worry about contesting
Speaker 21: custody because it would be a horrible case to have
Speaker 21: to go and attend court to go through and it
Speaker 21: might be better if she just looks after her mother
Speaker 21: and perhaps go is suggested on an overseas traveling trip
Speaker 21: for a period of time to recover and recuperate, and
Speaker 21: then return to Australia and then look at maybe perhaps
Speaker 21: making connections with her children and building a new life.
Speaker 21: So much pressure in a woman's life, and she thought
Speaker 21: she was making a sound decision based on the advice
Speaker 21: that she had been given and the you'd probably say
Speaker 21: the lack of support.
Speaker 1: And the diagnosis in nineen seventy one was that your
Speaker 1: mother had postnatal depression and something else.
Speaker 21: And the occurrences of schizophren more specifically categorized as schizoaffective disorder.
Speaker 21: I can cite a statement from her long life psychiatrist,
Speaker 21: mum had actually burnt out.
Speaker 6: Headley.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 8: I don't know if you heard.
Speaker 21: We paused for a minute because someone's caught there a blender.
Speaker 21: Oh dear, it's not major, but I will have to
Speaker 21: go and deal with that.
Speaker 1: Yes, let's talk later. By In nineteen ninety three, in
Speaker 1: her writings in the A four notepad, Romwin reflected on
Speaker 1: falling in love with John in the mid nineteen eighties,
Speaker 1: when they lived in Crinulla in the Shire and she
Speaker 1: was raising Crystal on her own. Bromwin had divorced her husband,
Speaker 1: Gary Beard, and Roman was no longer in a relationship
Speaker 1: with Crystal's father, Mark Davis. John Winfield had divorced two
Speaker 1: wives and he had one daughter, Jody. There's a sentence
Speaker 1: in Bromman's notepad which perhaps speaks volumes. When John came
Speaker 1: on the scene, Bromwin wrote, he was a good listener,
Speaker 1: and they clicked.
Speaker 15: He was or so it seemed honest, trustworthy, and didn't
Speaker 15: mind the fact that I had Chrystal, and he was
Speaker 15: wonderful to both of us. I was in love with
Speaker 15: him and would have done anything for him. We talked
Speaker 15: and I felt I had made a friend, although for
Speaker 15: some reason I never really trusted him, so never felt
Speaker 15: able to disclose my full family history to him.
Speaker 1: When I telephoned Kim Marshall back, she sounded much happier.
Speaker 8: Kim, Hi, I can hear the bird.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, that's good. Firstuall has your child with the
Speaker 1: blended finger.
Speaker 21: It wasn't not a major drama, just a little bit
Speaker 21: of blood.
Speaker 8: But it hurts.
Speaker 4: Thank you, there's a relation.
Speaker 8: I did my job.
Speaker 1: We picked up where we had left off. Kim was
Speaker 1: loyally determined to defend her mother, Barbara, the woman broman
Speaker 1: was said to have imitated with a disappearance. In an
Speaker 1: earlier episode, you heard Bromwin's uncle John and auntie Leah
Speaker 1: describing their recollections of Barbara. Kim has also talked to
Speaker 1: John and Leah about Kim and Bromman's mother and the
Speaker 1: major challenges that she faced in the nineteen sixties. Things
Speaker 1: were very different back then.
Speaker 21: When I spoke to John and Leah, they had a
Speaker 21: full belief that mum abandoned Andrew and Bromwin, and they
Speaker 21: said that to me when I was there in Sydney
Speaker 21: last year. I wore that because I actually was very
Speaker 21: familiar with that labeling. That is definitely not what my
Speaker 21: mother did, because my mother did try to go for custody.
Speaker 1: Totally understand this. This is why I'm talking to you
Speaker 1: and Andy. In an earlier telephone conversation with Kim, she
Speaker 1: talked about Bromwin having written the letters in which she
Speaker 1: described her concerns about her safety.
Speaker 21: Because she wrote some pretty intensive information in those letters
Speaker 21: to my mum.
Speaker 1: What a shame that you don't have copies of them.
Speaker 21: Bromwin was scared for her life. She wrote that in
Speaker 21: a sentence in the letter. In one of the letters,
Speaker 21: that's the distinct memory. But see that can only be
Speaker 21: now said, as he say.
Speaker 22: The one thing that I find a little confusing, if
Speaker 22: Roman had written that to your mom, you and your
Speaker 22: mom would have been suspicious from the day that Broman disappeared.
Speaker 22: One thing that I'm finding a bit contradictory is that
Speaker 22: people like Megan, for example, say that they were vicious
Speaker 22: immediately right in the police notes from ninety three and
Speaker 22: in the statements of some of these people and in
Speaker 22: their actions in having ongoing contact with John, It's not
Speaker 22: really obvious that they would have been suspecting John of
Speaker 22: foul play at that time. Otherwise why would they have
Speaker 22: maintained the connection to him and stayed with him. I'm
Speaker 22: just trying to work out whether people now say I
Speaker 22: was suspicious from the beginning, but were they really suspicious
Speaker 22: from the beginning and saying to the police this guy
Speaker 22: we suspect has murdered Bronwin.
Speaker 21: That's very relevant. We were telling the police that we
Speaker 21: were frightened and suspicious that something was going on, and
Speaker 21: there was a roadblock at every point because somehow it
Speaker 21: was always dismissed and kept as that Bromwin had gone away,
Speaker 21: the narrative of Bromwin being crazy like her mother, John's
Speaker 21: version of that, and that ran from the beginning, and
Speaker 21: it just kept a hole on everything. So we were
Speaker 21: always saying, but you're not writing down what we're actually thinking,
Speaker 21: or saying a phone call that I made that is
Speaker 21: totally out of context and it's incorrect.
Speaker 22: So kim back in ninety three, the detective disco according
Speaker 22: to one of his memo is one of his police
Speaker 22: intelligence notes, he spoke to.
Speaker 8: Your mom Broman's mom in.
Speaker 22: June of ninety ninety three, and according to this note,
Speaker 22: Barbara says to him, she's probably just run off.
Speaker 4: I'm not worried about her.
Speaker 10: She'll come back.
Speaker 8: She'll just turn up.
Speaker 21: Yeah, yeah, And I've read those.
Speaker 22: Do you think that could have been your mom's state
Speaker 22: of mind at that time?
Speaker 19: Now?
Speaker 21: I believe that that's Andrew and Michelle giving Mum the
Speaker 21: only lead for Mum to actually go on. And my
Speaker 21: mum was a very what would you say, non interfering
Speaker 21: woman and wanted to do anything to appease Andrew. And
Speaker 21: if Andrew said we won't panic at this time, or
Speaker 21: we won't do this, or we won't do that, Mum
Speaker 21: followed that lead because that was the only link that
Speaker 21: mum had. Mum was also made aware that her diagnosis
Speaker 21: and myself being the daughter, were going to be always
Speaker 21: looked upon as unreliable people. We were told that early on,
Speaker 21: and we were to be kept out of everything.
Speaker 22: Do you believe that your mother probably did say that
Speaker 22: in June nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 21: Yep, correct, yep. Because we were following Andrew's lead. I
Speaker 21: think Andrew was getting misled, and because he had pushed
Speaker 21: John so hard to go to the police. I think
Speaker 21: everything was really fragile. He was bewildered, what will I do?
Speaker 21: What part will I take? Will I keep John onside?
Speaker 21: Everyone was trying to be on side with John to
Speaker 21: get as much information. So, as Megan always likes to say,
Speaker 21: keep your enemies close play the game.
Speaker 22: It's obvious that in the early stages the police are
Speaker 22: not deeply suspicious.
Speaker 1: They're coming to a view that Bromwin has left voluntarily.
Speaker 22: Yes, and as a missing person, not a murder victim.
Speaker 21: Correct.
Speaker 4: Who was promoting with you?
Speaker 21: Bambi did promote it. They came in line with Timby
Speaker 21: and Diskan and kept running with it. I believe because
Speaker 21: none of us had had any experience, as is quite
Speaker 21: common with the police or anything like this, we were
Speaker 21: all in what you call a fawning mode. You know
Speaker 21: how you can flight, fight or faun I believe everybody
Speaker 21: was fawning, so we didn't know how hard to push.
Speaker 21: We didn't know how to offend the police. We didn't
Speaker 21: know how to go against.
Speaker 4: John, nobody in the family.
Speaker 22: Then, from what you're saying, felt comfortable getting on the
Speaker 22: front foot and saying it looks like foul play. Do
Speaker 22: your jobs treat this as a murder investigation, not missing person?
Speaker 1: Kim raised with me the internal police report which attributes
Speaker 1: to Megan Reid some disparaging information. You heard about it
Speaker 1: earlier in the episode when Megan denied being the informant.
Speaker 21: Robin's off her head, Roman's crazy like her mother, and
Speaker 21: it sets the tone again.
Speaker 22: Do you believe that somebody falsely misrepresenting herself as Megan
Speaker 22: my word correct.
Speaker 21: I don't think Megan's mind is that confusing, and she
Speaker 21: would never ever say that.
Speaker 1: You heard that Megan was in regular telephone contact with
Speaker 1: John for months following Broman's disappearance in May nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 1: Megan has strong views about attempts to link what happened
Speaker 1: then and the circumstances surrounding what had happened to Broman's mother, Barbara.
Speaker 1: When Broman was just a two year old.
Speaker 17: I knew that Bromin wasn't anything like her mom. Okay,
Speaker 17: when Rowin actually did meet Barbara. She went down to
Speaker 17: Tasmania and moved in with him for a little while.
Speaker 6: Very short while, she ring.
Speaker 17: Me up and she said, mum's talking to the pop plant.
Speaker 17: She thinks it's dad. She said, I'm not kidding.
Speaker 4: Barbara disappearance.
Speaker 6: Yes, John used that. He told all of us just
Speaker 6: like a mother.
Speaker 17: He tried to convince my ex husband and I for
Speaker 17: the get go that she'd lost some.
Speaker 6: Mind, but he thought everyone would buy that.
Speaker 5: Do you think that it was a persuasive story at
Speaker 5: the time, No, not.
Speaker 6: To me, it wasn't.
Speaker 17: And also when he went back to Lenox, he went
Speaker 17: in her flat and he told me he found empty
Speaker 17: bottles of alcohol and empty packets of allium hidden behind
Speaker 17: a cupboard, which I find it very hard to believe.
Speaker 17: But also, how the hell did you get into that
Speaker 17: apartment without her key? His words to me were that
Speaker 17: she was only gone for a few days. He was
Speaker 17: not going to report her as a missing person until
Speaker 17: Andrew said he would, otherwise I.
Speaker 6: Would ring them up to the police.
Speaker 17: And they said that there's nothing illegal about being a
Speaker 17: missing person.
Speaker 6: That's what they said. That's what they told her. And
Speaker 6: we pushed and pushed. I know Andrew did too. I
Speaker 6: knew something was wrong.
Speaker 1: I can see from the police brief of evidence produced
Speaker 1: by the then detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor that dozens of
Speaker 1: statements were obtained by him and fellow detective Wayne Temby.
Speaker 1: But these statements are all dated from the second half
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety eight, a full five years after Broman disappeared.
Speaker 1: It is remarkable that when a mother of two vanishers,
Speaker 1: no statements are taken from anyone. When Detective's Graham Discott
Speaker 1: and he's then junior understudy Wayne Temby get the missing
Speaker 1: person and report from John Winfield in late May nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety three, some of the nineteen ninety eight statements are illuminating.
Speaker 1: In episode four, You Heard a Voice actor read extracts
Speaker 1: from the statements by John's brother Peter Winfield and his
Speaker 1: wife Louise. They were recalling John's decision to fly back
Speaker 1: to Ballina on a Sunday evening, May sixteenth, nineteen ninety three,
Speaker 1: because John had become aware that Bromwin and the girls
Speaker 1: were back in the house. Now you are going to
Speaker 1: hear what Peter and Louise Winfield were called from the
Speaker 1: events soon after that visit, when John was the last
Speaker 1: person to see Bromwin.
Speaker 23: I've tried to remember, but I just don't recall what
Speaker 23: John said about coming to Sydney with the children. He
Speaker 23: must have offered some explanation of why Bronwin wasn't with him,
Speaker 23: but what that was I don't know.
Speaker 24: I became aware that John did go to Lennox Head.
Speaker 24: My memory of the following events are very vague, but
Speaker 24: I recalled John telling us that he and Bronwyn had
Speaker 24: a fight and that Bronwyn had walked out.
Speaker 23: The next thing I recall was John going back to
Speaker 23: Lennox Head after he rang to say that he had
Speaker 23: gone to police to report Bromwyn missing. I recall during
Speaker 23: a later telephone conversation, John mentioned that he thought Bronwyn
Speaker 23: had been back to the house after he had reported
Speaker 23: her missing. I don't recall the reasons why he came
Speaker 23: to that belief. The only other thing that I remember
Speaker 23: around that time was when I spoke to John on
Speaker 23: the telephone and he mentioned that the police were investigating
Speaker 23: Bromwin's disappearance, and there was mention of a clairvoyant. I'm
Speaker 23: not sure when this phone call was, but it was
Speaker 23: within the early time after Bronwyn had gone missing. Over
Speaker 23: the last five years, I have had no contact with
Speaker 23: Bromwyn and have not received any information about her.
Speaker 24: In the June July school holidays in nineteen ninety three,
Speaker 24: John and the children had returned to Sydney and stayed
Speaker 24: at our house for a couple of weeks. John informed
Speaker 24: us that he had not seen Bromwin and that she
Speaker 24: had not returned to Lennox Head. We immediately started to
Speaker 24: worry about Bromwin's well being and when any she would return.
Speaker 24: While John was working I minded Cristel and Lauren for him.
Speaker 24: I noticed that Kristal was fairly unaffected by her mother's disappearance,
Speaker 24: although I knew she was feeling pain. Lauren was showing
Speaker 24: signs that she was affected by what had happened.
Speaker 1: Glenn Webster's name will be familiar. You heard a voice
Speaker 1: actor for Glenn in episode four, describing how John had
Speaker 1: been helping build a house for Glenn and his wife
Speaker 1: in the Shire in Sydney until John left without warning
Speaker 1: to fly to Ballaner on Sunday, May sixteenth. That's what
Speaker 1: Glenn put in his nineteen ninety eight statement. Now here's
Speaker 1: a little more from that same statement.
Speaker 25: I don't recall John being any different when he came
Speaker 25: back with the girls. It's just too long to remember.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 25: I found out through are made of mine named David Baxter,
Speaker 25: who lives near Ballina, that John his wife Bronwin, had
Speaker 25: gone missing. I don't recall John Winfield ever mentioning that
Speaker 25: his wife had gone missing. Since nineteen ninety three, I
Speaker 25: have been in contact with John Winfield about.
Speaker 11: Every three to six months.
Speaker 1: I don't recollect.
Speaker 25: John ever mentioning anything about Bronwyn to me on the telephone.
Speaker 25: Since ninety ninety three, John has done some other work
Speaker 25: for me in Sydney. Again, there was no mention of Bronwyn,
Speaker 25: but he did tell me that Crystal was staying with
Speaker 25: some friends in the Ballina area.
Speaker 1: Ian Gluis, otherwise known as Gruffy the Concrete spoke in
Speaker 1: an earlier episode. You heard Scruffy recalling his observations of John,
Speaker 1: and Ian shared his concerns for Bromwin after she had
Speaker 1: disclosed her plans to move back into the house at
Speaker 1: Sandstone Crescent. Here's Scruffy again.
Speaker 26: The scuttle butt was going around town and you've seen
Speaker 26: bronman name, haven't Seena? You could knock me down with
Speaker 26: a feather when he appeared at the back door.
Speaker 1: Scruffy said that after John had returned to Lena Head
Speaker 1: and the two girls, Crystal and Lauren, were back in
Speaker 1: their local school, John dropped around to Scruffy's house. John
Speaker 1: was returning some building equipment which he had borrowed from Scruffy.
Speaker 26: He's gone, I've just brought your year back. What do
Speaker 26: I owe you for it? I said, I'd just like
Speaker 26: to find out about Roman. And he said, I know
Speaker 26: what everyone's saying about me. And he said, the first
Speaker 26: person that says it publicly, I'm going to sue for defamation.
Speaker 26: I said, well, you're going to have to consume me,
Speaker 26: because fucking I know you're responsible for a death. I said,
Speaker 26: all I want to know is where you're buried her.
Speaker 26: That's what I said to him, standing on the step
Speaker 26: looking at him. Jee was standing there in gobsmack.
Speaker 4: Did he see you for difference?
Speaker 26: Last time we had a civil word, everyone was sort
Speaker 26: of going, well, where Roman.
Speaker 5: Goes when you made that comment to John, or where's
Speaker 5: her body? Yeah, you had to be pretty confident about
Speaker 5: what had happened to her, Right, Why do you think
Speaker 5: you didn't go to the police yourself.
Speaker 26: Because basically I know what he say right when I
Speaker 26: faking heard that he'd hadn't started the car when he
Speaker 26: took the kids away. He'd glided down the hill past
Speaker 26: marriage place and then started when it got down around
Speaker 26: the bottom. This is the story that was going around
Speaker 26: town that he'd said that some car pulled up out
Speaker 26: the front. She's gone out and gone into the car,
Speaker 26: leaving her if I caing makeup bag at home or wherever,
Speaker 26: and then he got the kids into the car, she
Speaker 26: wouldn't answer the door unless she had makeup on, and
Speaker 26: she wouldn't go down the street unless she had the
Speaker 26: cosmetic bag with her, because she had to make up
Speaker 26: bag from hell had everything.
Speaker 4: Why was it so obvious to you?
Speaker 1: Is it not obvious to the local police.
Speaker 4: Well, she wouldn't leave the kids.
Speaker 26: Ever, she would die before she left the kids.
Speaker 1: Scruffy recalled another occasion when John and Bromman were still
Speaker 1: living together some months before her disappearance. It alerted him
Speaker 1: to John's attitude about men around John's wife. Scruffy had
Speaker 1: driven to the house in Sandstone Crescent to pick John
Speaker 1: up on their way to a building site. One early morning.
Speaker 6: I knocked on the.
Speaker 26: Door to get him, and she opened the door about
Speaker 26: this far and I was quite friendly with her, and
Speaker 26: she was quite friendly with my missus. She said someone
Speaker 26: else has picked him up.
Speaker 1: When Scruffy arrived at the job site, he mentioned his
Speaker 1: wasted trip to John.
Speaker 26: I was annoyed because I've had to drive up to
Speaker 26: his place to pick him up. To say him to Byron,
Speaker 26: I said, yeah, Bromman told me that you've been picked
Speaker 26: up or whoever. And he said what was she wearing?
Speaker 26: And I said, could have been a Hitsien bag for
Speaker 26: all I saw of her. I only saw this much
Speaker 26: of her face through the crack in the door. And
Speaker 26: that's not the sort of question you'd ask someone when
Speaker 26: you just said you winty house to pick up. And
Speaker 26: Roman told me that even someone else had picked you up,
Speaker 26: Immediately go what was she wearing?
Speaker 4: What was she supposed to be fucking wearing?
Speaker 26: So from you go, well, that's a strange fucking you
Speaker 26: know where you're coming from.
Speaker 4: So what did you take from that? That he was
Speaker 4: suspicious you were staring at her, or that she seeing
Speaker 4: someone else.
Speaker 26: No, No, it was the fact that I might have
Speaker 26: seen her with a ninety on.
Speaker 1: I asked Scruffy about the notoriety of Bromwin's disappearance in
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 26: And now everyone that was here and around the place
Speaker 26: that they all know about it and their disappearance, Robin,
Speaker 26: there was anybody who was not hibernating somewhere there weren't
Speaker 26: got out that the whole town knew about it. And
Speaker 26: then we heard stories that Rommin's mother was also We
Speaker 26: heard stories stating that Roman had issues as far as
Speaker 26: the mental issues and stuff which could come filtered down
Speaker 26: from John. Then John was accusing her of having an affair.
Speaker 1: Although Scruffy has scarcely seen John since nineteen ninety three,
Speaker 1: he knows where John has lived since the house which
Speaker 1: Bromwin part owned was sold by John in nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 5: I wonder how he was able to liquidate Romman's equity.
Speaker 5: Let's say, hypothetically she started new life. Yeah, that's his story, right.
Speaker 26: Oh, you mean after the disappearance, she's gone to start
Speaker 26: a new life.
Speaker 5: You and the cops the kind have disagreed that. So
Speaker 5: I'm not expressing a view, right, but I'm just saying,
Speaker 5: let's just go with that for the time then she
Speaker 5: still has equity or had equity, And.
Speaker 26: How did he manage to sell that? Well, depends on
Speaker 26: whose names.
Speaker 4: It was in. It wouldn't even matter whose name was it.
Speaker 4: She had rights as the partner in that house.
Speaker 26: Well, that's one avenue to track down, now, how he
Speaker 26: pulled that?
Speaker 4: Not a bad alert.
Speaker 26: See, I'm fairly intelligent, and so I put everything in
Speaker 26: my wife's name from before they were even bought or built,
Speaker 26: so there is no dispute on the settlement. I just
Speaker 26: choose what pairs of broadshorts I need, and then I'm off.
Speaker 4: He has avoided publicity.
Speaker 26: Oh well, you can't blame him. He's living with a
Speaker 26: sword of damicles. I'm sure he'd be interested enough to
Speaker 26: hear it.
Speaker 1: In a previous episode, you heard some evidence from a
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight police statement by Bromwin's townhouse neighbor Alan Fisher.
Speaker 1: Here is more of what Alan recalled the events. Shortly
Speaker 1: after May sixteen, nineteen ninety three, about a.
Speaker 27: Week after Bromwin went missing, I came home and noticed
Speaker 27: a ladder leaning up onto the roof of the flat
Speaker 27: that Bromham used to live at. I went over to
Speaker 27: the landlady Shirley Taylor and told her about the ladder.
Speaker 27: Shirley came running over with her son and I saw
Speaker 27: there was two more people in the unit. It turned
Speaker 27: out that these people were friends of Bromwin who had
Speaker 27: got into Bromin's unit to make sure she wasn't there.
Speaker 27: They weren't there to steal anything. It was some time
Speaker 27: later I was told by the landlady Shirley Taylor that
Speaker 27: Bromwin's husband had been at the unit trying to get
Speaker 27: the rest of Brown's belongings. Shirley told me that the
Speaker 27: husband had said there were things missing and that he
Speaker 27: thought that Bromwin must have come back to the unit
Speaker 27: and taken them. As I mentioned earlier, Bromin was very
Speaker 27: close to her children, and I find it strange that
Speaker 27: Bromwin would leave and not have any further contact with
Speaker 27: her children. I remember that Bromwin would not even go
Speaker 27: down to the local garage unless she had someone to
Speaker 27: watch the kids while she was gone.
Speaker 1: Here's how the owner of the townhouses, Shirley Taylor, described it,
Speaker 1: and you heard her in an earlier episode.
Speaker 3: About two weeks later, John came to my place and
Speaker 3: wanted to take the things that Broman had left behind.
Speaker 3: I had also spoken to the police about her disappearance,
Speaker 3: and they told me to keep Bromin's belongings in case
Speaker 3: she returned. John came around a couple of times a
Speaker 3: week and always requested Brohman's property, but I kept refusing him.
Speaker 3: After a period of about six weeks, I returned Bromin's
Speaker 3: belongings to John and he took them home. At a
Speaker 3: later time, I was cleaning the townhouse and I located
Speaker 3: a cane jewelry box on top of a wardrobe. Inside
Speaker 3: the jewelry box was a brown ring case which contained
Speaker 3: a gold chain with a tourist medallion, a further gold chain,
Speaker 3: a heart shaped pennant with a diamond in the center,
Speaker 3: one nine carried gold wedding band, one gold engagement ring
Speaker 3: with eight diamonds surrounding a larger diamond in the center,
Speaker 3: and a gold pendant containing an opal and surrounded by
Speaker 3: fourteen diamonds. Also contained in the jewelry box was a
Speaker 3: thick chained gold bracelet, a pink heart shaped soap, and
Speaker 3: a red and white dice. I was not aware whether
Speaker 3: these items belonged to Broman, so I put them in
Speaker 3: a cupboard in my house and they've been there ever since.
Speaker 3: I did not know what to do with them and
Speaker 3: eventually forgot about them. I haven't seen Bromin since May fourteen,
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety three, when she came and told me that
Speaker 3: she was returning to her house. I do recall that
Speaker 3: she was extremely happy about moving back into the house.
Speaker 3: I recall seeing something in the Northern Star newspaper about
Speaker 3: her disappearance, and I can say that I find it
Speaker 3: extremely hard to believe that Bromin would leave the children
Speaker 3: behind if she were to go anywhere now.
Speaker 1: He is more from Peter Shanahan's police statement. Peter was
Speaker 1: one of the owners with his then wife Robin, of
Speaker 1: d takeaway, where Bromwyn had a part time job.
Speaker 28: I recall that I spoke to a detective in nineteen
Speaker 28: ninety three and told him about Bromin not turning up
Speaker 28: for work on the Tuesday. Bromwin needed the money from
Speaker 28: the casual work and would most definitely rang me to
Speaker 28: tell me she couldn't come in. Bronwin never turned up
Speaker 28: for any future work and I found out later that
Speaker 28: she had disappeared. I have observed Bronwyn with her two
Speaker 28: girls Crystal and Lauren, and I would describe Bronwyn as
Speaker 28: a very good mother. For her to leave her girls
Speaker 28: and not make contact is not the Bronwin that I knew.
Speaker 28: In my opinion, there is no way that Bronwin would
Speaker 28: have left her girls. Over the last few years, I
Speaker 28: have often wondered what happened to Bronwyn, and there's more
Speaker 28: evidence from the nineteen ninety eight police statement of Maria Lewis,
Speaker 28: Scruffy's wife.
Speaker 29: Later, I found out that Bronwyn had supposedly gone away
Speaker 29: for a holiday for two weeks and left the children
Speaker 29: with John.
Speaker 4: I heard heard this.
Speaker 29: I found it unbelievable, considering everything I'd heard from Bronwyn
Speaker 29: whilst she was living in the flat. A couple of
Speaker 29: weeks after Bronwyn had supposedly gone on holidays, John came
Speaker 29: over to our house and we talked. He told us
Speaker 29: that he and Bronwyn had had a long discussion and
Speaker 29: that the stress with the kids had taken its toll
Speaker 29: with her and she had to get away. During this conversation,
Speaker 29: he said, I've already lost two houses to two other women,
Speaker 29: and I'll do whatever it takes to see that it
Speaker 29: doesn't happen again. This is not the exact statement that
Speaker 29: John made, but it is to the best of my recollection.
Speaker 29: He also made comment about rumors which were circling Lennox's
Speaker 29: head about him having buried her, and stated that if
Speaker 29: he heard it again he would sue whoever said it.
Speaker 29: I would describe Bronwyn as a very caring mother, and
Speaker 29: her children's interests always came first. I do not believe
Speaker 29: that she would just get up and leave her children,
Speaker 29: particularly with no further contact. I spent a lot of
Speaker 29: time with her just prior to her disappearance, and I
Speaker 29: formed the opinion that she would do anything to stop
Speaker 29: John getting custody of the children. And I find it
Speaker 29: extremely hard to believe that she would go on a holiday,
Speaker 29: not come back and leave the children with John as
Speaker 29: he has purported. I'm very definite about this.
Speaker 1: Jane Johnston, the wife of John's cousin Richard who's better
Speaker 1: known as Andrew, had more to say in her statement
Speaker 1: to police in nineteen ninety eight too, And as with
Speaker 1: Alan Fisher, Shirley Taylor, Peter Shanahand and Maria Glewis, these
Speaker 1: are the words from the police statement. They're being voiced
Speaker 1: by an actor.
Speaker 30: I didn't hear anything whilst I was overseas, other than
Speaker 30: when Andrew met me. He told me that he had
Speaker 30: received a strange phone call from Bronwyn. Shortly after returning
Speaker 30: home from overseas, Andrew and I went on a picnic
Speaker 30: at Stanwell Park with Peter and Louise Winfield.
Speaker 6: Peter is John's brother.
Speaker 30: While we were on the picnic, Peter told us that
Speaker 30: Bronwyn had disappeared about a month prior. We didn't have
Speaker 30: much contact with John after that, and I didn't discuss
Speaker 30: her disappearance with him because he obviously didn't want to.
Speaker 1: One day in nineteen ninety four, while shopping in the Shire,
Speaker 1: Jane saw a woman in profile about thirty meters away.
Speaker 1: She thought the woman looked like Bromwin. Jane yelled Bromwin's
Speaker 1: name loudly, but there was no response. Jane said she
Speaker 1: ran after the shopper but lost her in the crowd.
Speaker 1: Bronwyn is written and investigated by me Headley Thomas as
Speaker 1: a podcast production for The Australian. If anyone has information
Speaker 1: which may help solve this cold case, please contact me
Speaker 1: confidentially by emailing Bronwyn at the Australian dot com dot Au.
Speaker 1: You can read more about this case and see a
Speaker 1: range of photographs and other artwork at the website Bromwyn
Speaker 1: Podcast dot com. Our subscribers and registered users here episodes first.
Speaker 1: The production and editorial team for Bromwin includes Claire Harvey,
Speaker 1: Kristin Amiet, Joshua Burton, Bridget, Bryan Bianca, far Marcus, Katie Burns,
Speaker 1: Liam Mendez, Sean Callen, Matthew Condon and David Murray. Audio
Speaker 1: production for this podcast series is by Wasabi Audio and
Speaker 1: original theme music by Slade Gibson. We have been assisted
Speaker 1: by Madison Walsh, a relation of Bromwin Winfield. We can
Speaker 1: only do this kind of journalism with the support of
Speaker 1: our subscribers and our major sponsors like Harvey Norman. For
Speaker 1: all of our exclusive stories, videos, maps, timelines and documents
Speaker 1: about this podcast and other podcasts including The Teacher's Pet,
Speaker 1: The Teachers Trial, The Teacher's Accuser, Shandy Story, Shandy's Legacy
Speaker 1: and The Night Driver, go to the Australian dot com
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