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Speaker 1: Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bromwan contains coarse

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Speaker 1: language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to

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Speaker 1: you by Me Headley Thomas and The Australian. The acclaimed

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Speaker 1: actor Simon Baker, a crime solving EmPATH in The Mentalist,

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Speaker 1: grew up in this place. Lennox Head, Oh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're the one they were telling me about the psychic.

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Speaker 3: He's not here.

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Speaker 4: He's here, and there's no such thing as psychics.

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Speaker 1: The Hollywood star played the role of a troubled dad

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Speaker 1: doing his best in the Netflix series Boys Swallows Universe,

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Speaker 1: based on my friend Trent Dalton's remarkable novel of the

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Speaker 1: same name. Simon Baker drove down the Coast Road and

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Speaker 1: Memory Lane with sixty Minutes reporter Alison Langdon when he

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Speaker 1: returned to his dark brick childhood home. Here it's going

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Speaker 1: to somehow have an impact on you and affect you

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Speaker 1: in a way when you're living here.

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Speaker 5: The power of what this landscape is, it's got this

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Speaker 5: intensity in it.

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Speaker 1: Just a little farther north, the actor Chris Hemsworth often

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Speaker 1: favors the famed Seven Mile Beach near his home off

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Speaker 1: Broken Head. Celebrities live something close to a normal life

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Speaker 1: in these parts. They're not hassled or ogled by the locals.

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Speaker 1: Mary Nolan holds the stop go sign outside one of

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Speaker 1: the schools from time to time as a part time job,

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Speaker 1: and he used to see Chris Hemsworth come to collect

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Speaker 1: his children, Maurray and Deb's son Dale sees Chris in

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Speaker 1: the water when he's back from making movies and TV

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Speaker 1: action series.

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Speaker 6: Yea, Dale's often said to me, surf with Chris emsoft today.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, he's just a normal every day go Really, he

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Speaker 7: seems very down to earth.

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Speaker 8: Good on him.

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Speaker 7: It's probably good that he's living out him, not in

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Speaker 7: the la buscle and bustle.

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Speaker 1: The surfing culture is very strong in Lenox and while

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Speaker 1: many in the community have strong views about him, surfers

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Speaker 1: do respect John. He is knowledgeable about conditions and weather.

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Speaker 1: He's neither aggressive nor greedy when it comes to competing

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Speaker 1: for waves. But they've also got a nickname for him.

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Speaker 1: Bromwin's friend from the early nineteen nineties, Denise Barnard, shared

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Speaker 1: it with me as we sat at a table in

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Speaker 1: her Lennox Head courtyard overlooking a plunge pool.

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Speaker 6: John's very well known out in the surf.

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Speaker 4: How is he well known?

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Speaker 9: They call him JTM, JTM John the Murderer JTM.

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Speaker 6: That's what he's known as.

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Speaker 1: Does he know that?

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Speaker 10: I don't know.

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Speaker 9: I think a lot of people have the idea that

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Speaker 9: she's done something sinister with Bromwin way back then, and

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Speaker 9: he's got away with it and he's store outliving the life,

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Speaker 9: and that's what.

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Speaker 11: They call him.

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Speaker 1: Shortly before this podcast series began, one surfer asked John

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Speaker 1: a brutally blunt question. Murray heard about the exchange and

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Speaker 1: shared it with me. Did you kill your wife, mate,

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Speaker 1: the surfer asked John, No way. John replied she was crazy.

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Speaker 1: She ran off his story that Bromwin, in his words,

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Speaker 1: was not right in the head, that she was like

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Speaker 1: her mother. Barbara has endured three decades. Here's Bromwin's good

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Speaker 1: friend deb again, recalling conversations with John in May and

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Speaker 1: June nineteen ninety three.

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Speaker 7: He kept trying to paint the picture that she was schizophrenic.

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Speaker 7: You know a mother schizophrenic. You know your sister sitzophrenic.

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Speaker 7: He kept saying this to me, right, and.

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Speaker 4: I said, no, this is why she was alive.

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Speaker 6: After she gone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: He tried to paint this picture of Bromwyn to me

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Speaker 7: she'd lost the marbles, and I thought, no, she was stressed,

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Speaker 7: but I didn't see any evidence of being schizophrenic and

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Speaker 7: living with him. She was obviously very nervous, like if

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Speaker 7: she was having someone over for coffee, she would actually

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Speaker 7: ask me could they come down here in case John

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Speaker 7: come home and she had people there.

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Speaker 1: I've been studying a one page document typed in Ballener

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Speaker 1: police station at the time John Winfield reported his wife

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Speaker 1: as missing. It is an account of the purported facts

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Speaker 1: and circumstances as John explained them to the police officer

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Speaker 1: who was on duty, Julie Donovan. Officer Donovan's name and

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Speaker 1: badge number are on this document. Each relevant section has

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Speaker 1: been filled with black type, as you would expect. It's

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Speaker 1: dated May twenty seven. It includes Bromwin's date of birth

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Speaker 1: in late April, her height of five foot eight which

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Speaker 1: is one hundred and seventy three centimeters, her fair complexion,

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Speaker 1: her green or hazel eye color, and what was described

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Speaker 1: as her racial appearance of Caucasian white in the checkbox

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Speaker 1: for hair color. The option of colored or dyed is

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Speaker 1: noted in another checkbox asking whether there are fears for

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Speaker 1: the safety of the missing person. It states no. The

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Speaker 1: name of Bromwin's GP, doctor Christopher Mitchell, and his medical

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Speaker 1: practice are also noted on the form. Then there's a

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Speaker 1: narrative of a few hundred words at the foot of

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Speaker 1: the page. I've talked to police contacts about this section

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Speaker 1: and they say that it is based almost entirely on

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Speaker 1: the initial account provided by the person who went into

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Speaker 1: the station to make the report to in this case,

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Speaker 1: John Winfield. In the narrative, Bromwin is referred to as

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Speaker 1: a POI, and that's an abbreviation for person of interest.

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Speaker 1: You are going to hear a voice actor who will

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Speaker 1: say the words.

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Speaker 12: Person of interest was last seen at nine thirty pm

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Speaker 12: on sixteen May nineteen ninety three, after making several phone

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Speaker 12: calls from the above address after husband Jonathan was in Sydney.

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Speaker 12: Apparently the two had been officially separated since twenty two

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Speaker 12: March nineteen ninety three. On the night of sixteen May,

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Speaker 12: the person of interest had a conversation with her ex

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Speaker 12: husband and informed him that she was leaving. She stated

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Speaker 12: that she was leaving and going for a couple of

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Speaker 12: weeks holiday.

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Speaker 1: In the first notification to police. John has asserted that

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Speaker 1: Bromwyn had said she was having a break of a fortnight,

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Speaker 1: whereas he told Broman's brother Andy and sister in law Michelle,

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Speaker 1: as as well as Debbie and Murray, that she was

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Speaker 1: going for a break of a few days. Here's how

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Speaker 1: Michelle described it in episode four.

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Speaker 13: When he first spoke, he was going down the lines

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Speaker 13: of she's walked out and left, and she's left me

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Speaker 13: with the kids, and then it switched to she needed

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Speaker 13: a break for a few days. She's gone away for

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Speaker 13: a few days to get ahead together.

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Speaker 1: There's something else that's off about the dates and timings.

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Speaker 1: According to the account being given by John to police,

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Speaker 1: Bromwan was going away for a couple of weeks, which

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Speaker 1: would have meant that by the end of the month

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Speaker 1: May thirty, he would have expected her to return to

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Speaker 1: the house and to her children. On his account, the

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Speaker 1: one he gave to the police, which was different to

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Speaker 1: the one he gave to her family and friends, Bronwin

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Speaker 1: was not even missing when he made the May twenty

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Speaker 1: seven missing person report. Did it occur to the police

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Speaker 1: to question what was really going on, to dig into

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Speaker 1: whether Broman's family, particularly her brother Andy and Broman's friends

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Speaker 1: had pushed John to make the report in the first

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Speaker 1: place because they understood this was very unusual behavior. The

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Speaker 1: next line in the missing person report, based on John

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Speaker 1: Winfield's information to Ballina Police officer Julie Donovan, is remarkable.

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Speaker 12: On eighteen May nineteen ninety three, the person of interest

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Speaker 12: telephoned her ex husband's daughter, Jodi Lynn Winfield at her

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Speaker 12: salon at fifty seven Flinders Road, Woolaware, and informed her

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Speaker 12: that she was in Queensland and that she was not

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Speaker 12: coming back.

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Speaker 1: If accurate, this line would be a powerful indication to

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Speaker 1: police that Bromin was alive and well, and that although

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Speaker 1: Broman had not made any contact with her brother, or

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Speaker 1: her mother, or her daughter's or her half sister, or

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Speaker 1: her friends and neighbors, or her employer, she had, according

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Speaker 1: to John, telephoned her stepdaughter, Jody, the eighteen year old

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Speaker 1: with whom Bromwin had argued on the telephone. Because of

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Speaker 1: the fact that Broman and her girls had moved back

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Speaker 1: into the house at Sandstone Crescent, Jody's work telephone number

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Speaker 1: at the hair salon in the Shire in Sydney where

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Speaker 1: she was working was typed on the form I spoke

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Speaker 1: to Broman's brother Andy about the purported telephone call to

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Speaker 1: the hair salon. I only want to know what you

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Speaker 1: clearly remember the missing person report that the police filled

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Speaker 1: out after John visited Ballana police says that a phone

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Speaker 1: call was received in Sydney.

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Speaker 4: It's really significant.

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Speaker 1: It's staying effectively that Bromwin was alive after John has

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Speaker 1: left the house. What do you know about this purported

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Speaker 1: phone call by to Jody at the hair salon in Sydney.

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Speaker 11: We received word through John about a phone call that

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Speaker 11: came to the salon on the Tuesday. Michelle had rung

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Speaker 11: me to say supposedly Bromwin had rung Jody salon. And

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Speaker 11: I got home and I thought, wow, how wei was

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Speaker 11: at and tadd Michelle. I then left and drove down

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Speaker 11: to the salon at all aware and parked across the

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Speaker 11: road and waited for my last client to walk out.

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Speaker 11: And I went and knocked on the jaw and introduced

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Speaker 11: myself and I said, what's this about Bromwin Winfield supposedly

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Speaker 11: ringing the salon today? And the lady at the salon said,

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Speaker 11: I don't know whether it was Bromwin or not, but

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Speaker 11: am rang the salon and said, tell Jody, I'm okay,

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Speaker 11: I'm in Queensland and I'm not coming back.

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Speaker 10: Who was that woman?

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Speaker 11: I believed that person to be Tanya Robertson.

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Speaker 1: You thought it was really weird that this telephone call

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Speaker 1: had purportedly been made by Bromman. Why did you believe

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Speaker 1: then that that was really weird?

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Speaker 11: Michelle had already said to me. Why would Bromwin ring

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Speaker 11: the salon knowing that Tuesday was the day that Jody

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Speaker 11: went to tape. Jody wasn't even at the salon that day,

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Speaker 11: But how would Broman know that she used to talk

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Speaker 11: to Jody all the time. Bromwin knew what day she

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Speaker 11: was able to contact Jody or not.

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Speaker 1: You said that Tanya Robertson told you that she wasn't

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Speaker 1: sure whether or not it was Bromin's voice.

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Speaker 10: Why would she volunteer that to you.

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Speaker 11: To tell you the truth? I don't know. She just

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Speaker 11: said it was a female voice and didn't want to

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Speaker 11: confirm that it was Bromwin. Did she know Bromin's voice?

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Speaker 11: I would believe so. Roman could have rung there numerous times.

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Speaker 11: It just seems an odd thing for her to mention.

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Speaker 11: I'm not sure whether or not it was Bromwin.

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Speaker 1: If the person whose calling says I'm Bromwin, why would

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Speaker 1: she ring Jodie.

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Speaker 11: And not ring an immediate member of her family to

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Speaker 11: say that she was okay? That just doesn't make any

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Speaker 11: sense to us, and it never did at the time,

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Speaker 11: and it still doesn't to this day.

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Speaker 1: But here's the thing, Andy, you've gone in on Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: May eighteen.

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Speaker 10: You've spoken to Tanya.

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Speaker 1: She can't confirm whether or not the person who called

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Speaker 1: was Bromin. You don't hear any more about it. Then

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Speaker 1: on May twenty seven, so another nine days later, the

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Speaker 1: missing person report is made by John and in that

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Speaker 1: report it stated as a matter of fact that it

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Speaker 1: was Bromin who made the call. Did you walk away

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Speaker 1: from that salon believing that a call had been made

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Speaker 1: by someone representing herself as Brommin.

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Speaker 11: Yes, correct, Yes, one hundred percent. Told me that a

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Speaker 11: phone call was made to the salon and it was

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Speaker 11: a female voice. For words to me were I could

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Speaker 11: not verify whether it was Bromwin. Tell Jody, I'm in

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Speaker 11: Queensland and I'm not coming home straight away. I thought

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Speaker 11: none of that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Do you know now why you didn't yourself go to

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Speaker 1: the homicide squad and say, I think something really serious

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Speaker 1: has gone down here.

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Speaker 11: These were just slow culminating facts that made absolutely no sense.

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Speaker 1: When you see that missing person report and read it, now,

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Speaker 1: what do you believe it's trying to do?

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Speaker 11: I believe it's trying to falsify a proof of life.

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Speaker 11: After the Sunday night at the house.

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Speaker 1: Glenn Taylor, the detective sergeant who picked up the case

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Speaker 1: and started a thorough investigation in nineteen ninety eight, asked

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Speaker 1: Jody Winfield about this purported call from Bromwin to the salon.

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Speaker 1: These are Jody's words from the police statement Jody made

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety eight, but it's not her voice.

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Speaker 14: The following Tuesday, eighteenth of May nineteen ninety three, was

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Speaker 14: my rostered day off work. About lunchtime, Michelle, my boss,

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Speaker 14: told me that Bronwin had rung and spoken to Tenurerobertson

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Speaker 14: at the salon and said to her, can I speak

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Speaker 14: to Jody. Tanya said she's not here, it's her day off.

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Speaker 14: She said that Bronwin then said tell her I'm never

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Speaker 14: coming back and for her to watch over the kids.

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Speaker 14: She then hung up. I would have thought that Bronwin

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Speaker 14: would have rung me at home because she knew that

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Speaker 14: Tuesday was my day off, although she could have rung

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Speaker 14: and left a message at the salon because we'd been

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Speaker 14: arguing and maybe she didn't want to speak to me.

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Speaker 14: I told Dad about the phone call, and he thought

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Speaker 14: that it was just her blowing off hot air. He

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Speaker 14: thought that when he went home she would just turn up.

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Speaker 14: Dad doesn't talk about Bronwyn much. He doesn't bring it

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Speaker 14: up at all. The only way he'll talk about it

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Speaker 14: is if I bring it up. He's definite that one

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Speaker 14: day she'll turn up on the front doorstep and attempt

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Speaker 14: to take Crystal and Lauren. He's positive that she's still

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Speaker 14: alive somewhere and will suddenly reappear.

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Speaker 1: When Tanya Robertson was questioned by police in nineteen ninety eight,

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Speaker 1: she had no recollection of receiving a telephone call in

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Speaker 1: the salon from anyone calling herself Bromwin Winfield, and Tanya

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Speaker 1: said that she believed she would have remembered such a

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Speaker 1: call if it had been made. Let's go back to

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Speaker 1: the words in the missing person report in the Ballina

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Speaker 1: Police Station dated May twenty seven, nineteen ninety three.

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Speaker 12: Up to date, Jonathan has made several inquiries with the

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Speaker 12: person who interests girlfriend and associated friends, and it appears

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Speaker 12: that the person of interest has not been heard of

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Speaker 12: or seen since, except for a brief interlude with the

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Speaker 12: clairvoyant David.

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Speaker 1: This claim of Bromwin catching up with the tarot card

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Speaker 1: reader after May sixteen is the second assertion by John

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Speaker 1: that Bromwin was alive. After he left the house and

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Speaker 1: drove to Sydney that Sunday.

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Speaker 12: Night, Jonathan approached the clairvoyant and he said that he

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Speaker 12: did not keep diaries and vaguely could remember the person

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Speaker 12: of interest. Up to date, only very few of the

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Speaker 12: person of interests clothing had been taken from the house.

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Speaker 1: The next sentence in the police missing person report indicates

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Speaker 1: that no withdrawals have been made from Bromwin's account with

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Speaker 1: the Commonwealth Bank while she has been on her supposed break.

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Speaker 1: The report, which is based almost entirely on information from John,

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Speaker 1: concludes with damaging inferences about Bromwyn's stability.

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Speaker 12: It appears that the person of interest has come from

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00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,720
Speaker 12: a very deranged family and her mother has been treated

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Speaker 12: for psychiatric problems for the last twenty.

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00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:39,600
Speaker 1: Years there it is bromwn Joy Winfield was labeled by

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Speaker 1: association right from the start at Balener Police Station. Nobody

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00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,480
Speaker 1: else in Bromwin's life had the slightest indication that Bromwyn

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00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,679
Speaker 1: was mentally unwell in some kind of carbon copy of

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00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:53,880
Speaker 1: her mother Barbara.

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Speaker 12: Apparently, when the person of interest was eleven years old,

287
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,800
Speaker 12: she had a nervous breakdown. However, it is not known

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00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,680
Speaker 12: whether she is suffering from any disorder at this stage

289
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,239
Speaker 12: and has not been treated for associated problems known to

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Speaker 12: the husband.

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00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:14,680
Speaker 1: You've previously heard that Broman's GP doctor Mitchell, saw Bromman

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00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,720
Speaker 1: at his surgery on Friday, May fourteenth because she had

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00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,960
Speaker 1: sprained her left hand, and doctor Mitchell had treated broman

294
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:27,600
Speaker 1: by applying a splint. He did not notice anything unusual

295
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,919
Speaker 1: about her manner. The reference from John Winfield to a

296
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,439
Speaker 1: purported mental health event two decades earlier, when Bromwan was

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00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,000
Speaker 1: eleven years old was something I had not read or

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00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,480
Speaker 1: heard about before in all the files and interviews for

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00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:48,120
Speaker 1: this podcast investigation. Bromman's brother Andy Reid told me there

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00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,720
Speaker 1: was no nervous breakdown when Bromin was aged eleven or

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00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:56,680
Speaker 1: any time after, and there are also references to Bromwin's

302
00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,840
Speaker 1: mental health or your family's mental health. There's a claim

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00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,919
Speaker 1: there that Bromwin's also had a mental breakdown or a

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00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 1: nervous breakdown when she's aged eleven.

305
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:08,920
Speaker 10: What's that about?

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00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:14,000
Speaker 11: At no time can I ever remember through our childhood

307
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:20,640
Speaker 11: that Bromwin was treated for any form of mental illness, And.

308
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,160
Speaker 10: What about through her adulthood?

309
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:28,480
Speaker 11: Again the same No, no psychologists, no psychiatrists. I do

310
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:33,879
Speaker 11: not recall Bromwin ever been treated in any form or

311
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:34,920
Speaker 11: mental illness.

312
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 1: But Bromwin did have some unhappy experiences through her childhood

313
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:45,359
Speaker 1: and teens. Andy tells me that things became particularly complicated

314
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:50,119
Speaker 1: when their mother, Barbara returned to Australia and re entered

315
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 1: their lives.

316
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:57,960
Speaker 11: That's when we first found out that our stepmother actually

317
00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 11: wasn't our real mother.

318
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,359
Speaker 1: Bronwin's stepmother Jenny clashed with Bromwin.

319
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:09,640
Speaker 11: It was strained at times, but that was only in

320
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:14,880
Speaker 11: her later teen years. We had a perfectly normal childhood,

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00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,040
Speaker 11: as old family photos and that can prove of. We

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00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,920
Speaker 11: used to be always holidaying down in Sussex and let

323
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,639
Speaker 11: I have vivid memories of Mum taking us into We

324
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Speaker 11: used to always go into jays to the carols.

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Speaker 8: By candle light.

326
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Speaker 11: Mum had a daughter in Melissa, had a son in me,

327
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Speaker 11: and therefore I think we received the better treatment in

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Speaker 11: the latter days.

329
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Speaker 10: And you've made a reference a couple of times to Mum.

330
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Speaker 1: But you're talking there about your legal stepmother, aren't you correct?

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Speaker 11: Correct, because that's the person.

332
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Speaker 10: That raisings and you believe that she was your mother.

333
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, until you were about nine, Andy.

334
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 11: Oh, I remember, Yeah, I was, would have been about

335
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 11: ten or so you.

336
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:18,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry, So to remind you this. Friends of

337
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,920
Speaker 1: the family and relatives confirmed that Broman was excluded at times.

338
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 1: She went to live with relatives, including her grandmother Nana Reid,

339
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Speaker 1: instead of living in the family home.

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Speaker 11: It was always in my memory after the fact of

341
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,199
Speaker 11: a bit of strine coming into the marriage. Once my

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00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 11: real mom, Barbara was introduced into our lives.

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00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,400
Speaker 1: In the weeks before Broman disappeared, she wrote in those

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Speaker 1: A four pages about some events in her childhood.

345
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Speaker 15: Jenny couldn't stand me, went to stay with Nana Reid

346
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Speaker 15: for a while after Pa Reed died. Nana read and

347
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Speaker 15: I were okay for a while, but she had a

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00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,159
Speaker 15: full and had to be hospitalized. She went into a

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Speaker 15: nursing home. I met my real mother in the middle

350
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Speaker 15: of all of this. Also met Kim, spent holidays in

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Speaker 15: Tasmania with her, and also spent weekends in town with her.

352
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Speaker 15: It went with hotel, left school year ten, wanted to

353
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Speaker 15: leave home, hated it.

354
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Speaker 1: Nowhere in the missing person report does it say that

355
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Speaker 1: Bromwin was an exceptionally dedicated mother and that it was

356
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Speaker 1: completely out of character for her to leave her children.

357
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,400
Speaker 1: She had never left her children before. The report does

358
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 1: not say that she had commitments. A solicitor's appointment on

359
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,919
Speaker 1: Monday May seventeen to talk about her separation from John

360
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Speaker 1: and her plans to get the ball rolling on a

361
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Speaker 1: property settlement. There was her work at Eden's Takeaway during

362
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: the week the school pickups and drop offs for the children,

363
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:03,159
Speaker 1: Lauren and Crystal. Bromwin had not finished moving her things

364
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 1: back from the rented townhouse in Byron Street to the

365
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: home that John had built at Sandstone Crescent when she disappeared.

366
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Speaker 1: She wanted to stop paying rent. There was a perfectly

367
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Speaker 1: good home to live in. It was empty because John

368
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 1: had taken work in Sydney. It defeated Bromwan's purpose to

369
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 1: leave her things in the rental because it meant she

370
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 1: would have had to keep paying for it. But the

371
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 1: missing person report had none of those details. I've been

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00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 1: talking to one of Bromwan's friends, Bridgeter. They bonded in

373
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Speaker 1: high school and for years afterwards. Bridgeta made the wedding

374
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: dress for Bromwin's marriage to John Winfield, but nobody was invited.

375
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Speaker 1: John wanted a quiet ceremony in Lennox Head. Bridgeta has

376
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Speaker 1: sent me photographs of them as young women, including with

377
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: Cristel as a small child. I asked Bridgetter whether she

378
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Speaker 1: had ever seen anything that made her one day, whether

379
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Speaker 1: Bromwin had any mental health issues.

380
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 2: She was a very good friend of mine. We went

381
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: to high school together. After high school, we spent a

382
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 2: lot of time together. I was with her when her

383
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 2: babies were born. I was the person she reached out to,

384
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 2: and she had a lot of trouble at home. My

385
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 2: family put her in her home when she had nowhere

386
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Speaker 2: to go, rent free for many months, just to get

387
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 2: her on her feet again, just give her a place

388
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 2: for a while till she could sort out what she

389
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 2: wanted to do, and that she wanted a solid family.

390
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 2: This trouble in the household was before John. She needed

391
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 2: to move out of there. The stepmother didn't really like her.

392
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: And do you know why, do you know what that

393
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 1: was about?

394
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 2: Well, she had another daughter to Bromwin's father, and I

395
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 2: think she really loved that one because that was hers

396
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 2: and Bromwin was from a previous marriage. I think she

397
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 2: just didn't like Bromwin. Bromwin was pretty, he was nice looking.

398
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 2: The father doated on her. I was there for her

399
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 2: first wedding, second wedding. No one was allowed to go

400
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: to that because John whisked her away and only had

401
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 2: two elderly people as witnesses, so none of her friends

402
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 2: could be there for that wedding. I was concerned because

403
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 2: while I was with her, she always a happy, go

404
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 2: lucky girl. You know, we used to go out dancing

405
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 2: together and parties and she was a lovely person. And

406
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 2: then when John came into the picture, she seemed to

407
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 2: be a little bit more careful of what she spoke about,

408
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 2: and she just looked a little bit uneasy, not like

409
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 2: the normal happy boman I used to always witness. And

410
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 2: she said to me that she didn't really go out

411
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 2: very much, because he used to check how much petrol

412
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 2: she'd used to try and work out where she's been.

413
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 2: I found that very disturbing. She so wanted to have

414
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 2: a family unit, She wanted her children to have father,

415
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 2: She wanted a happy life.

416
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 6: So I guess that's why she put up with her.

417
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 2: But I didn't spend a lot of time because he

418
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: didn't like her to be around her old friends. I

419
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 2: didn't want to make any trouble. I was reading in

420
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 2: the paper that John was trying to say that she

421
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 2: had a mental issue. Now that is by farst really

422
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 2: really wrong. I never saw her with a mental problem.

423
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: I never seen her act like she had a mental problem.

424
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: What do you think of the suggestion that romwin wanted

425
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 1: to take a break and then just decided to stay

426
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: away from her kids and home and family.

427
00:26:54,119 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 16: Never, never, never, never, She loved her kids.

428
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: After July, the Ballana police file for the nineteen ninety

429
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 1: three investigation into the fate of missing mother of two

430
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 1: Bromin Winfield goes eerily quiet for a couple of months.

431
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: It seems there was no investigative activity until September two,

432
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, when a two page police internal report was.

433
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 17: Filed, and there's also that terrible one from discoun I'll

434
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 17: show you that.

435
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 4: This is how it starts.

436
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: This date spoke to the cousin of the missing person,

437
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,959
Speaker 1: Megan Reid. We talked about it in one of my

438
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: first meetings with Meghan at her home in Sydney.

439
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 5: Meg, I'm just going to ask you to clearly and

440
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 5: slowly read that statement.

441
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 11: Okay.

442
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 17: So as New South Wales Police State Intelligence Network Information

443
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 17: report named GJ. Diskan Ranked Detector Sergeant Location Ballaner.

444
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: This is not a signed statement by Megan Reid. No

445
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: sign statements were taken by police in nineteen ninety three.

446
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: It is a document based on a telephone conversation between

447
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: Detective Graham Diskin and a woman who must have given

448
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: him a name Meghan Read. But Meghan insists that it

449
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: was not her on the telephone to the police officer

450
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: in Balliner.

451
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 17: This date spoke to the cousin of the missing person,

452
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 17: Meghan Read. Meghan stated that she had twice spoken to

453
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 17: the MP Missing Personal Belief only days before her disappearance,

454
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 17: and only that she was able to recognize her voice,

455
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 17: She would not have believed that, in fact it was

456
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 17: Bromwin Meghan stated that the missing person was talking a

457
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 17: lot of rubbish but did not seem to be affected

458
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 17: by drugs or alcohol. Statements were made like you will

459
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 17: all pay none of you will know what is happening,

460
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 17: and other statements that meant nothing to Megan. Meghan stated

461
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 17: that she has no fears about John Winfield being involved

462
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 17: in anything untoward so far as his wife's disappearance is concerned.

463
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 17: In the past, she has questioned Browin over her attitude

464
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 17: and lies about John, and bromwin.

465
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 6: Admitted that she was seeking attention.

466
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 17: She believes that John is a great father and care

467
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 17: of the two children involved in the marriage, and would

468
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 17: do nothing to upset the children. Meghan also believes that

469
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 17: in the past Bromwan was a user of cannabis and

470
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 17: described her as a flower child, believing that she may

471
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 17: well be living.

472
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 6: On a commune somewhere.

473
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 17: She also had a passion for money and was on

474
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 17: the lookout for a rich male to care for her

475
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 17: if the opportunity arose. Meighan stated that broman has always

476
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 17: been upset over the death of her father some years

477
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 17: ago and by the fact that she was luckless in

478
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 17: his estate because he was a bankrupt at the time

479
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 17: of his death, and all moneies went to paying outstanding debts. Bromwin,

480
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 17: until just prior to her disappearance, has been supported for

481
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 17: money from Meaghan's father, Bromwan's uncle. However, he has declined

482
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 17: to continue in that vein and Bromwin was somewhat.

483
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 6: Upset about that.

484
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 17: Meghan also reiterated the fact act that her mother did

485
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 17: exactly the same thing some years ago and believes that

486
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 17: one day she will walk back into the family home

487
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 17: as if nothing happened due to her state.

488
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 6: Of mind at the time of the disappearance.

489
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 4: Okay, and what do you say about this statement?

490
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 17: Absolutely bullshit. I never ever would say that. I mean,

491
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 17: my father never gave her a cent for starters, never did.

492
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 17: You wouldn't never wouldn't give anyone money. Dad and John

493
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 17: came up with her, told me that she was at

494
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 17: the age of Aquarius commune.

495
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 6: This is John's words.

496
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: Megan believes that another unknown woman who knew that Detective

497
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: Sergeant Graham Diskin was investigating Brohman's disappearance, has.

498
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 17: Rung up and said that she's me I really do.

499
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 17: That's the only way it is.

500
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 6: Word for word.

501
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 17: Stuff that John said to me and to my parents.

502
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 17: So that's what he's saying. Now, it's just so far

503
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 17: from true. I mean, I don't understand this at all.

504
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 17: I didn't even know it existed until recently, and I'm

505
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 17: very upset about it, which I didn't do it now.

506
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 17: The coroner at the coronal inquest tried to subpoena Sergeant Discan,

507
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 17: but unfortunately he went off on medical stress leave or

508
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 17: something and he had medical exemption from being subpoened in court.

509
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: Okay, let's try and step through parts of this statement

510
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: just to work out whether that theory that someone misrepresenting

511
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: themselves as you.

512
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 4: Has actually been behind this.

513
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 17: The thing is about her father being a bankrupt Well

514
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 17: that's true, but you know, how would he know that?

515
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 4: It has to come from an informed member of the family.

516
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 17: Yes, I agree with you. Well, they're just so far

517
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 17: from the truth. Though Robin was a very glamorous woman.

518
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 17: She would never go to a commune. It's just ridiculous.

519
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 17: As if I say that she had a mensa IQ.

520
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 17: I mean, the girl was as shark as outtack.

521
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 4: Why do you say she had a mensa IQ.

522
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 6: Because my mother told me that she had her IQ.

523
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 5: Taken Maddie can you go back to that intelligence report

524
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 5: please and just tell me the phone number that he lists.

525
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 18: Okay, Sarah too four four known.

526
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: Maddie Walsh read the rest of the phone number as

527
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: it existed in nineteen ninety three.

528
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 5: It's noted here in handwriting it says Megan cousin.

529
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 6: I did have that number. Yeah, just we change providers

530
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 6: and moved.

531
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 4: Yeah.

532
00:33:54,280 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 5: So whoever has contacted disc and has given your phone number, Yes,

533
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 5: that's correct, but you are not the informant for that.

534
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 6: Absolutely not.

535
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 17: I mean I'd have to have completely gone start raving mad.

536
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,479
Speaker 6: If you spoke to any single person that I.

537
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 17: Know, they would be gobsmacked, because I mean, it's the

538
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 17: opposite to what I've always maintained. I mean, I never

539
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,280
Speaker 17: even spoke to him. I tried to talk to Disband

540
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 17: and he wouldn't take my calls. And he said to

541
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 17: me that that was because Michelle and Andrew were the

542
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 17: only ones that they were the representative of the Reed

543
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 17: family that he would talk to.

544
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 5: So do you believe that you spoke to him just

545
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 5: on one or two occasions.

546
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 6: I don't even know if I ever spoke to him.

547
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 4: But didn't he tell you that he couldn't talk to

548
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 4: you because.

549
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 17: Andrew, well, somebody told me that. I don't know if

550
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 17: it was actually him. I just rang up asking to

551
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 17: speak to him, right, I don't know who it was

552
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 17: who answered the phone?

553
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: And when was the first time a statement was taken

554
00:34:58,960 --> 00:34:59,399
Speaker 1: from you?

555
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 6: Ninety eight?

556
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 4: All right, so five years after that intelligence.

557
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 17: Report nineteen ninety eight is the first time Eddie statements

558
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 17: for Dagon.

559
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 1: Whoever it was on the telephone two detective disc and

560
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: she influenced investigations by police in nineteen ninety three, A

561
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: purported family member declaring that John would not have done

562
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: anything wrong and that Bromman was strangely emulating the disappearing

563
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: act of her own mother, Barbara, aligned neatly with the

564
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: path the police were already on. It's impossible to discover

565
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: now the true origin of the information noted in the

566
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: internal police document. And it's also complicated because some family

567
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: members have fallen out with each other. Madison Walsh is

568
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: aware of these difficulties and she helps me navigate through them.

569
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: In your extended family, there are some well intentioned people.

570
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 18: Yeah, one hundred percent, and it's really frustrating because sometimes

571
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 18: it gets the better of them and it's hard to

572
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 18: mellow it out. It's a lot of strong opinions, a

573
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 18: lot of confident people, and it's it's hard.

574
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 4: It's really hard.

575
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 6: So I'm trying to take a.

576
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 18: Kind of unbiased step back and just kind of observe

577
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 18: what's in front of me.

578
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: Megan Reid hasn't seen eye to eye with her cousin

579
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: Andy Reid's wife Michelle for a long time.

580
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 6: We used to see them.

581
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,879
Speaker 17: We'd have the Reed family Christmas on Boxing Day every

582
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 17: year she married him. That was it too becau Xandra

583
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 17: and I had not been on speaking terms for years

584
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 17: because of his wife's getting interfering and doing the police

585
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 17: not to talk to me and all the rest of it.

586
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,720
Speaker 17: But now he and I, I'm really good.

587
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: Megan and Kim Marshall, Bromwin's half sister, haven't known each

588
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,760
Speaker 1: other long. Kim came to stay at Meghan's place.

589
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 17: Kim is off on this clairvoyant route. She went on

590
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 17: and on about it, But now we're getting along like a.

591
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 6: House on fire.

592
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: Andy Reid is candid about ups and downs. Andy also

593
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: points out important differences between his mother, Barbara's mental health

594
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: and her absence from his life and his sister Bromwin's

595
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three disappearance. Barbara went overseas with her mother,

596
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,879
Speaker 1: leaving Andy and Bromwin with their father for almost a decade, so.

597
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 19: It was never as if Barbara ever disappeared and no

598
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 19: one knew where she was. That's when she went to Europe,

599
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 19: went to London and started in London and traveled around

600
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 19: through while that, yeah, and then came back and then

601
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 19: obviously settled in Hobart.

602
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 1: I take your point that the context is very different.

603
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: Why then, would people talking to the police in nineteen

604
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 1: ninety three when broman disappears even raise your mother's leaving.

605
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,280
Speaker 1: Why was it even raised and became part of police

606
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: evidence if it was irrelevant.

607
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 19: John had all the first contact with police. John had

608
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 19: all direction of how the case was handled when information

609
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 19: went to the police.

610
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 8: Originally I didn't have any jurisdiction.

611
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 19: John had jurisdiction over to the case, which is hence

612
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 19: Wright it took me so long to get control and

613
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 19: then the case did properly reviewed and investigated correctly without.

614
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 8: All the stumbling blocks constantly being put in front of it.

615
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 1: So your sense of it is that Discan hears from

616
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: the husband who should have been a person of interest

617
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: that his wife's mother did a disappearing act, and that

618
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: puts the idea into Discan's mind. And then he follows

619
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 1: up with you and Michelle and Megan and others asking

620
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 1: questions about your mum's disappearance.

621
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:16,359
Speaker 4: Is that how you see it?

622
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 8: That's the way I answer it.

623
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 19: Yes, Yes, it was never ever Michelle's belief the problem

624
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 19: would walk away from those two girls.

625
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 1: And Megan, I mean, she wouldn't have done anything deliberately detrimental.

626
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 4: She probably thought she was helping.

627
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 11: Yeah, correct.

628
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 19: I actually instructed the police not to talk to her anymore.

629
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 19: Megan's always wanted to know who that person was. What

630
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 19: did the police stop talking to?

631
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: And he told me that he made this decision after

632
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: he and Michelle were given some feedback by the detective

633
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: Sergeant Graham Diskin in nineteen ninety three.

634
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 19: And he said to me, every time I asked this

635
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 19: fellow a question, he has an answer.

636
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 4: It's as if he's prepared.

637
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 8: Yeah, we thought it's got to be a way.

638
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 19: How does he know or how is he so prepared

639
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 19: to answer things all the time, which led to me

640
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 19: to make some phone calls and start chasing up what

641
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 19: was going on. And then that's when I found out

642
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 19: that John had been in constant contact with Megan.

643
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 8: So I put two and two together and thought, well.

644
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 19: This guy's clever enough to be picking her brain for

645
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 19: whatever the family's thinking, which Megan sort of now to

646
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 19: this day describes as, Oh, yes, but you've got to

647
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 19: keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer type.

648
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: So here's Megan again.

649
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 17: I'm the only one that remained in contact with him

650
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 17: after Roman's disappearance, and my reasoning being was that it

651
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 17: keeps your enemies closer than your fringe kind of thing

652
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 17: to find out, so I could find out what was

653
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 17: going on, and I continue to be in contact with

654
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,399
Speaker 17: him virtually daily up until October ninety four.

655
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 20: I had an argument with Andrew just recently about this

656
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 20: whole thing. Was Michelle in particular doesn't like us, and

657
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 20: she has nothing to do with us, and she told

658
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 20: the police not to have.

659
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 8: Anything to do with myself.

660
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 17: Andrew was the point of contact for the police, and

661
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 17: they never listened to me. And Andrew apparently told them

662
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 17: that I have ADHD it was a mental case not

663
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 17: to listen to me, which is absolutely rubbish because I

664
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 17: am quite the opposite. I'm very intelligent, I know what

665
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 17: I'm saying. I am hyperactive, and I haven't had.

666
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 20: My medication yet, so probably joining a million miles an. Now,

667
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 20: the thing is, I have a photographic.

668
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:45,720
Speaker 8: Memory, of a brilliant memory.

669
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 20: I can remember things like yesterday.

670
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 19: She thought that she was doing the right thing, but

671
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 19: in the end I perceived that she was just being

672
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 19: bled for every bit of information or any thought that

673
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 19: the family was thinking. And that gave him a means

674
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 19: and a way to be able to explain things away constantly.

675
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 19: I think that was quite detrimental to the early investigation.

676
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: Tim Marshall spent a lot of time with her mother,

677
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: Barbara kim Well, I wanted to talk to you about Barbara,

678
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: your mother's mental health issues. Are you okay talking to

679
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: me about that?

680
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 21: It all starts with mum being a nurse. She was

681
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 21: a very talented nurse. Mum very much supported Philip becoming

682
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 21: a teacher and heading towards becoming a principal, and so

683
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 21: she paid for a lot of the setup costs for

684
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 21: their marriage and their home life, and she naturally then

685
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 21: went on to have Bromwin. The culture back in those

686
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 21: days was that men naturally went to the pub or

687
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 21: they had a few drinks after work.

688
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 11: As Bromwin moved.

689
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 21: From being a baby to a toddler, Philip was not

690
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 21: at home as much, and then she became pregnant with Andrew.

691
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 21: Philip used to be absent from the home a lot,

692
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 21: and so Mum would often catch him coming home late

693
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 21: at night watering the levices in the garden and she'd

694
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 21: have to say come inside, Philip, and then other nights

695
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,760
Speaker 21: she'd have to go and getting down from the pub.

696
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 21: So Mum was feeling astraining her marriage. Andrew was then birthed,

697
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 21: and then Mum felt she had developed postnatal depression after

698
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 21: having Andrew. Whether she was also feeling depressed and unsupported

699
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 21: being the mother of two small children, Mum had multiple

700
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 21: crisis situations going on in her life. The birth of

701
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:54,399
Speaker 21: her second child, a husband that was estranging himself from

702
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 21: the marriage, and then her father died and later on

703
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 21: in life it's been explained to her that because she

704
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 21: had so many competing crisis is going on, that's when

705
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:10,399
Speaker 21: her mental health became compromised and she probably had what

706
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 21: they described as a breakdown. But Philip, in consultation with

707
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 21: his parents, it had been expressed that no, you must

708
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 21: have your wife back with you, you must get your

709
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 21: family house in order, and so Philip actually said, no,

710
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 21: you can only have a short time away, and Mum

711
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 21: disagreed with that. He actually entered the house and he

712
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 21: collected Andrew from the crib left the property with Andrew

713
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 21: against Mum's permission. He already had Bromwin staying with him.

714
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 21: And the words that have always remained in my head

715
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 21: from the stories that were explained was that the lawyer

716
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 21: advised that Mum would most likely be judged as an

717
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 21: unfit mother due to the opinion ends of the Reed family,

718
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 21: and that she perhaps should actually not worry about contesting

719
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 21: custody because it would be a horrible case to have

720
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 21: to go and attend court to go through and it

721
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 21: might be better if she just looks after her mother

722
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 21: and perhaps go is suggested on an overseas traveling trip

723
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 21: for a period of time to recover and recuperate, and

724
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 21: then return to Australia and then look at maybe perhaps

725
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 21: making connections with her children and building a new life.

726
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 21: So much pressure in a woman's life, and she thought

727
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 21: she was making a sound decision based on the advice

728
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 21: that she had been given and the you'd probably say

729
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 21: the lack of support.

730
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: And the diagnosis in nineen seventy one was that your

731
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 1: mother had postnatal depression and something else.

732
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 21: And the occurrences of schizophren more specifically categorized as schizoaffective disorder.

733
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 21: I can cite a statement from her long life psychiatrist,

734
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 21: mum had actually burnt out.

735
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 6: Headley.

736
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

737
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 8: I don't know if you heard.

738
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,720
Speaker 21: We paused for a minute because someone's caught there a blender.

739
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 21: Oh dear, it's not major, but I will have to

740
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 21: go and deal with that.

741
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 1: Yes, let's talk later. By In nineteen ninety three, in

742
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: her writings in the A four notepad, Romwin reflected on

743
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 1: falling in love with John in the mid nineteen eighties,

744
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 1: when they lived in Crinulla in the Shire and she

745
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 1: was raising Crystal on her own. Bromwin had divorced her husband,

746
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: Gary Beard, and Roman was no longer in a relationship

747
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:01,839
Speaker 1: with Crystal's father, Mark Davis. John Winfield had divorced two

748
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: wives and he had one daughter, Jody. There's a sentence

749
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: in Bromman's notepad which perhaps speaks volumes. When John came

750
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 1: on the scene, Bromwin wrote, he was a good listener,

751
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:15,240
Speaker 1: and they clicked.

752
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 15: He was or so it seemed honest, trustworthy, and didn't

753
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 15: mind the fact that I had Chrystal, and he was

754
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 15: wonderful to both of us. I was in love with

755
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 15: him and would have done anything for him. We talked

756
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 15: and I felt I had made a friend, although for

757
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 15: some reason I never really trusted him, so never felt

758
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,240
Speaker 15: able to disclose my full family history to him.

759
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: When I telephoned Kim Marshall back, she sounded much happier.

760
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 8: Kim, Hi, I can hear the bird.

761
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 1: Oh okay, that's good. Firstuall has your child with the

762
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 1: blended finger.

763
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 21: It wasn't not a major drama, just a little bit

764
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 21: of blood.

765
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 8: But it hurts.

766
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 4: Thank you, there's a relation.

767
00:47:58,120 --> 00:47:58,879
Speaker 8: I did my job.

768
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: We picked up where we had left off. Kim was

769
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: loyally determined to defend her mother, Barbara, the woman broman

770
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: was said to have imitated with a disappearance. In an

771
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,800
Speaker 1: earlier episode, you heard Bromwin's uncle John and auntie Leah

772
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: describing their recollections of Barbara. Kim has also talked to

773
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: John and Leah about Kim and Bromman's mother and the

774
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 1: major challenges that she faced in the nineteen sixties. Things

775
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: were very different back then.

776
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 21: When I spoke to John and Leah, they had a

777
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 21: full belief that mum abandoned Andrew and Bromwin, and they

778
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 21: said that to me when I was there in Sydney

779
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 21: last year. I wore that because I actually was very

780
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 21: familiar with that labeling. That is definitely not what my

781
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 21: mother did, because my mother did try to go for custody.

782
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: Totally understand this. This is why I'm talking to you

783
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: and Andy. In an earlier telephone conversation with Kim, she

784
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: talked about Bromwin having written the letters in which she

785
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 1: described her concerns about her safety.

786
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 21: Because she wrote some pretty intensive information in those letters

787
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 21: to my mum.

788
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 1: What a shame that you don't have copies of them.

789
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 21: Bromwin was scared for her life. She wrote that in

790
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 21: a sentence in the letter. In one of the letters,

791
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 21: that's the distinct memory. But see that can only be

792
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 21: now said, as he say.

793
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 22: The one thing that I find a little confusing, if

794
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 22: Roman had written that to your mom, you and your

795
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 22: mom would have been suspicious from the day that Broman disappeared.

796
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 22: One thing that I'm finding a bit contradictory is that

797
00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 22: people like Megan, for example, say that they were vicious

798
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 22: immediately right in the police notes from ninety three and

799
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 22: in the statements of some of these people and in

800
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 22: their actions in having ongoing contact with John, It's not

801
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 22: really obvious that they would have been suspecting John of

802
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 22: foul play at that time. Otherwise why would they have

803
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 22: maintained the connection to him and stayed with him. I'm

804
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 22: just trying to work out whether people now say I

805
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,839
Speaker 22: was suspicious from the beginning, but were they really suspicious

806
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 22: from the beginning and saying to the police this guy

807
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,320
Speaker 22: we suspect has murdered Bronwin.

808
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 21: That's very relevant. We were telling the police that we

809
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 21: were frightened and suspicious that something was going on, and

810
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 21: there was a roadblock at every point because somehow it

811
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 21: was always dismissed and kept as that Bromwin had gone away,

812
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 21: the narrative of Bromwin being crazy like her mother, John's

813
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 21: version of that, and that ran from the beginning, and

814
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 21: it just kept a hole on everything. So we were

815
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 21: always saying, but you're not writing down what we're actually thinking,

816
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 21: or saying a phone call that I made that is

817
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 21: totally out of context and it's incorrect.

818
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 22: So kim back in ninety three, the detective disco according

819
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 22: to one of his memo is one of his police

820
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 22: intelligence notes, he spoke to.

821
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,399
Speaker 8: Your mom Broman's mom in.

822
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 22: June of ninety ninety three, and according to this note,

823
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:50,359
Speaker 22: Barbara says to him, she's probably just run off.

824
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 4: I'm not worried about her.

825
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:52,959
Speaker 10: She'll come back.

826
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:53,839
Speaker 8: She'll just turn up.

827
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 21: Yeah, yeah, And I've read those.

828
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,399
Speaker 22: Do you think that could have been your mom's state

829
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 22: of mind at that time?

830
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 19: Now?

831
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 21: I believe that that's Andrew and Michelle giving Mum the

832
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 21: only lead for Mum to actually go on. And my

833
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 21: mum was a very what would you say, non interfering

834
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 21: woman and wanted to do anything to appease Andrew. And

835
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 21: if Andrew said we won't panic at this time, or

836
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:27,959
Speaker 21: we won't do this, or we won't do that, Mum

837
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 21: followed that lead because that was the only link that

838
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 21: mum had. Mum was also made aware that her diagnosis

839
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 21: and myself being the daughter, were going to be always

840
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 21: looked upon as unreliable people. We were told that early on,

841
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 21: and we were to be kept out of everything.

842
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:54,360
Speaker 22: Do you believe that your mother probably did say that

843
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 22: in June nineteen ninety three.

844
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 21: Yep, correct, yep. Because we were following Andrew's lead. I

845
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:08,320
Speaker 21: think Andrew was getting misled, and because he had pushed

846
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 21: John so hard to go to the police. I think

847
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 21: everything was really fragile. He was bewildered, what will I do?

848
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 21: What part will I take? Will I keep John onside?

849
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 21: Everyone was trying to be on side with John to

850
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 21: get as much information. So, as Megan always likes to say,

851
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 21: keep your enemies close play the game.

852
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 22: It's obvious that in the early stages the police are

853
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:38,800
Speaker 22: not deeply suspicious.

854
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: They're coming to a view that Bromwin has left voluntarily.

855
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,879
Speaker 22: Yes, and as a missing person, not a murder victim.

856
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 21: Correct.

857
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 4: Who was promoting with you?

858
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 21: Bambi did promote it. They came in line with Timby

859
00:53:56,440 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 21: and Diskan and kept running with it. I believe because

860
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 21: none of us had had any experience, as is quite

861
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 21: common with the police or anything like this, we were

862
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,839
Speaker 21: all in what you call a fawning mode. You know

863
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 21: how you can flight, fight or faun I believe everybody

864
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:23,399
Speaker 21: was fawning, so we didn't know how hard to push.

865
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 21: We didn't know how to offend the police. We didn't

866
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 21: know how to go against.

867
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 4: John, nobody in the family.

868
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 22: Then, from what you're saying, felt comfortable getting on the

869
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 22: front foot and saying it looks like foul play. Do

870
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,800
Speaker 22: your jobs treat this as a murder investigation, not missing person?

871
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 1: Kim raised with me the internal police report which attributes

872
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 1: to Megan Reid some disparaging information. You heard about it

873
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 1: earlier in the episode when Megan denied being the informant.

874
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 21: Robin's off her head, Roman's crazy like her mother, and

875
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 21: it sets the tone again.

876
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 22: Do you believe that somebody falsely misrepresenting herself as Megan

877
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 22: my word correct.

878
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:18,840
Speaker 21: I don't think Megan's mind is that confusing, and she

879
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 21: would never ever say that.

880
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 1: You heard that Megan was in regular telephone contact with

881
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: John for months following Broman's disappearance in May nineteen ninety three.

882
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:34,760
Speaker 1: Megan has strong views about attempts to link what happened

883
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:39,400
Speaker 1: then and the circumstances surrounding what had happened to Broman's mother, Barbara.

884
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 1: When Broman was just a two year old.

885
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 17: I knew that Bromin wasn't anything like her mom. Okay,

886
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 17: when Rowin actually did meet Barbara. She went down to

887
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,800
Speaker 17: Tasmania and moved in with him for a little while.

888
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 6: Very short while, she ring.

889
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,479
Speaker 17: Me up and she said, mum's talking to the pop plant.

890
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 17: She thinks it's dad. She said, I'm not kidding.

891
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 4: Barbara disappearance.

892
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 6: Yes, John used that. He told all of us just

893
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 6: like a mother.

894
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 17: He tried to convince my ex husband and I for

895
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 17: the get go that she'd lost some.

896
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 6: Mind, but he thought everyone would buy that.

897
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 5: Do you think that it was a persuasive story at

898
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 5: the time, No, not.

899
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 6: To me, it wasn't.

900
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:25,839
Speaker 17: And also when he went back to Lenox, he went

901
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 17: in her flat and he told me he found empty

902
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 17: bottles of alcohol and empty packets of allium hidden behind

903
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:35,720
Speaker 17: a cupboard, which I find it very hard to believe.

904
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 17: But also, how the hell did you get into that

905
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 17: apartment without her key? His words to me were that

906
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 17: she was only gone for a few days. He was

907
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 17: not going to report her as a missing person until

908
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 17: Andrew said he would, otherwise I.

909
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:52,240
Speaker 6: Would ring them up to the police.

910
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:55,839
Speaker 17: And they said that there's nothing illegal about being a

911
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 17: missing person.

912
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 6: That's what they said. That's what they told her. And

913
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 6: we pushed and pushed. I know Andrew did too. I

914
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,240
Speaker 6: knew something was wrong.

915
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 1: I can see from the police brief of evidence produced

916
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 1: by the then detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor that dozens of

917
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: statements were obtained by him and fellow detective Wayne Temby.

918
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 1: But these statements are all dated from the second half

919
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety eight, a full five years after Broman disappeared.

920
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: It is remarkable that when a mother of two vanishers,

921
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 1: no statements are taken from anyone. When Detective's Graham Discott

922
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 1: and he's then junior understudy Wayne Temby get the missing

923
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 1: person and report from John Winfield in late May nineteen

924
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 1: ninety three, some of the nineteen ninety eight statements are illuminating.

925
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 1: In episode four, You Heard a Voice actor read extracts

926
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 1: from the statements by John's brother Peter Winfield and his

927
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: wife Louise. They were recalling John's decision to fly back

928
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: to Ballina on a Sunday evening, May sixteenth, nineteen ninety three,

929
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: because John had become aware that Bromwin and the girls

930
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: were back in the house. Now you are going to

931
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: hear what Peter and Louise Winfield were called from the

932
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: events soon after that visit, when John was the last

933
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: person to see Bromwin.

934
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 23: I've tried to remember, but I just don't recall what

935
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 23: John said about coming to Sydney with the children. He

936
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 23: must have offered some explanation of why Bronwin wasn't with him,

937
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 23: but what that was I don't know.

938
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:57,439
Speaker 24: I became aware that John did go to Lennox Head.

939
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 24: My memory of the following events are very vague, but

940
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 24: I recalled John telling us that he and Bronwyn had

941
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 24: a fight and that Bronwyn had walked out.

942
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 23: The next thing I recall was John going back to

943
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 23: Lennox Head after he rang to say that he had

944
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 23: gone to police to report Bromwyn missing. I recall during

945
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 23: a later telephone conversation, John mentioned that he thought Bronwyn

946
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 23: had been back to the house after he had reported

947
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 23: her missing. I don't recall the reasons why he came

948
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 23: to that belief. The only other thing that I remember

949
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 23: around that time was when I spoke to John on

950
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 23: the telephone and he mentioned that the police were investigating

951
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 23: Bromwin's disappearance, and there was mention of a clairvoyant. I'm

952
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 23: not sure when this phone call was, but it was

953
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 23: within the early time after Bronwyn had gone missing. Over

954
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 23: the last five years, I have had no contact with

955
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 23: Bromwyn and have not received any information about her.

956
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 24: In the June July school holidays in nineteen ninety three,

957
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 24: John and the children had returned to Sydney and stayed

958
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 24: at our house for a couple of weeks. John informed

959
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 24: us that he had not seen Bromwin and that she

960
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 24: had not returned to Lennox Head. We immediately started to

961
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 24: worry about Bromwin's well being and when any she would return.

962
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 24: While John was working I minded Cristel and Lauren for him.

963
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 24: I noticed that Kristal was fairly unaffected by her mother's disappearance,

964
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 24: although I knew she was feeling pain. Lauren was showing

965
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 24: signs that she was affected by what had happened.

966
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 1: Glenn Webster's name will be familiar. You heard a voice

967
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 1: actor for Glenn in episode four, describing how John had

968
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: been helping build a house for Glenn and his wife

969
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 1: in the Shire in Sydney until John left without warning

970
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: to fly to Ballaner on Sunday, May sixteenth. That's what

971
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: Glenn put in his nineteen ninety eight statement. Now here's

972
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:48,960
Speaker 1: a little more from that same statement.

973
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 25: I don't recall John being any different when he came

974
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 25: back with the girls. It's just too long to remember.

975
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 4: Now.

976
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 25: I found out through are made of mine named David Baxter,

977
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 25: who lives near Ballina, that John his wife Bronwin, had

978
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 25: gone missing. I don't recall John Winfield ever mentioning that

979
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 25: his wife had gone missing. Since nineteen ninety three, I

980
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 25: have been in contact with John Winfield about.

981
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 11: Every three to six months.

982
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 1: I don't recollect.

983
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 25: John ever mentioning anything about Bronwyn to me on the telephone.

984
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:20,439
Speaker 25: Since ninety ninety three, John has done some other work

985
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 25: for me in Sydney. Again, there was no mention of Bronwyn,

986
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 25: but he did tell me that Crystal was staying with

987
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 25: some friends in the Ballina area.

988
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 1: Ian Gluis, otherwise known as Gruffy the Concrete spoke in

989
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: an earlier episode. You heard Scruffy recalling his observations of John,

990
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 1: and Ian shared his concerns for Bromwin after she had

991
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 1: disclosed her plans to move back into the house at

992
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: Sandstone Crescent. Here's Scruffy again.

993
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:51,919
Speaker 26: The scuttle butt was going around town and you've seen

994
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 26: bronman name, haven't Seena? You could knock me down with

995
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 26: a feather when he appeared at the back door.

996
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:00,439
Speaker 1: Scruffy said that after John had returned to Lena Head

997
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 1: and the two girls, Crystal and Lauren, were back in

998
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 1: their local school, John dropped around to Scruffy's house. John

999
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 1: was returning some building equipment which he had borrowed from Scruffy.

1000
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,160
Speaker 26: He's gone, I've just brought your year back. What do

1001
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 26: I owe you for it? I said, I'd just like

1002
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 26: to find out about Roman. And he said, I know

1003
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 26: what everyone's saying about me. And he said, the first

1004
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 26: person that says it publicly, I'm going to sue for defamation.

1005
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 26: I said, well, you're going to have to consume me,

1006
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 26: because fucking I know you're responsible for a death. I said,

1007
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 26: all I want to know is where you're buried her.

1008
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 26: That's what I said to him, standing on the step

1009
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 26: looking at him. Jee was standing there in gobsmack.

1010
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 4: Did he see you for difference?

1011
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 26: Last time we had a civil word, everyone was sort

1012
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 26: of going, well, where Roman.

1013
01:02:55,360 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 5: Goes when you made that comment to John, or where's

1014
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:05,479
Speaker 5: her body? Yeah, you had to be pretty confident about

1015
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:08,479
Speaker 5: what had happened to her, Right, Why do you think

1016
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 5: you didn't go to the police yourself.

1017
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 26: Because basically I know what he say right when I

1018
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 26: faking heard that he'd hadn't started the car when he

1019
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 26: took the kids away. He'd glided down the hill past

1020
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 26: marriage place and then started when it got down around

1021
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 26: the bottom. This is the story that was going around

1022
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 26: town that he'd said that some car pulled up out

1023
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 26: the front. She's gone out and gone into the car,

1024
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 26: leaving her if I caing makeup bag at home or wherever,

1025
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 26: and then he got the kids into the car, she

1026
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 26: wouldn't answer the door unless she had makeup on, and

1027
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 26: she wouldn't go down the street unless she had the

1028
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 26: cosmetic bag with her, because she had to make up

1029
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 26: bag from hell had everything.

1030
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 4: Why was it so obvious to you?

1031
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 1: Is it not obvious to the local police.

1032
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 4: Well, she wouldn't leave the kids.

1033
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 26: Ever, she would die before she left the kids.

1034
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 1: Scruffy recalled another occasion when John and Bromman were still

1035
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 1: living together some months before her disappearance. It alerted him

1036
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 1: to John's attitude about men around John's wife. Scruffy had

1037
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 1: driven to the house in Sandstone Crescent to pick John

1038
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 1: up on their way to a building site. One early morning.

1039
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 6: I knocked on the.

1040
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 26: Door to get him, and she opened the door about

1041
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:41,280
Speaker 26: this far and I was quite friendly with her, and

1042
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 26: she was quite friendly with my missus. She said someone

1043
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 26: else has picked him up.

1044
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 1: When Scruffy arrived at the job site, he mentioned his

1045
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:51,440
Speaker 1: wasted trip to John.

1046
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 26: I was annoyed because I've had to drive up to

1047
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 26: his place to pick him up. To say him to Byron,

1048
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 26: I said, yeah, Bromman told me that you've been picked

1049
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:01,840
Speaker 26: up or whoever. And he said what was she wearing?

1050
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:05,360
Speaker 26: And I said, could have been a Hitsien bag for

1051
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 26: all I saw of her. I only saw this much

1052
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 26: of her face through the crack in the door. And

1053
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 26: that's not the sort of question you'd ask someone when

1054
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 26: you just said you winty house to pick up. And

1055
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 26: Roman told me that even someone else had picked you up,

1056
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:20,080
Speaker 26: Immediately go what was she wearing?

1057
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:22,960
Speaker 4: What was she supposed to be fucking wearing?

1058
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:28,120
Speaker 26: So from you go, well, that's a strange fucking you

1059
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:30,600
Speaker 26: know where you're coming from.

1060
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 4: So what did you take from that? That he was

1061
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 4: suspicious you were staring at her, or that she seeing

1062
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 4: someone else.

1063
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 26: No, No, it was the fact that I might have

1064
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 26: seen her with a ninety on.

1065
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 1: I asked Scruffy about the notoriety of Bromwin's disappearance in

1066
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three.

1067
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 26: And now everyone that was here and around the place

1068
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 26: that they all know about it and their disappearance, Robin,

1069
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 26: there was anybody who was not hibernating somewhere there weren't

1070
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 26: got out that the whole town knew about it. And

1071
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 26: then we heard stories that Rommin's mother was also We

1072
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 26: heard stories stating that Roman had issues as far as

1073
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 26: the mental issues and stuff which could come filtered down

1074
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 26: from John. Then John was accusing her of having an affair.

1075
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:28,680
Speaker 1: Although Scruffy has scarcely seen John since nineteen ninety three,

1076
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 1: he knows where John has lived since the house which

1077
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 1: Bromwin part owned was sold by John in nineteen ninety nine.

1078
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 5: I wonder how he was able to liquidate Romman's equity.

1079
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 5: Let's say, hypothetically she started new life. Yeah, that's his story, right.

1080
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 26: Oh, you mean after the disappearance, she's gone to start

1081
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 26: a new life.

1082
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 5: You and the cops the kind have disagreed that. So

1083
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 5: I'm not expressing a view, right, but I'm just saying,

1084
01:06:56,400 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 5: let's just go with that for the time then she

1085
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 5: still has equity or had equity, And.

1086
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 26: How did he manage to sell that? Well, depends on

1087
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 26: whose names.

1088
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 4: It was in. It wouldn't even matter whose name was it.

1089
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 4: She had rights as the partner in that house.

1090
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 26: Well, that's one avenue to track down, now, how he

1091
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 26: pulled that?

1092
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:19,960
Speaker 4: Not a bad alert.

1093
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 26: See, I'm fairly intelligent, and so I put everything in

1094
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 26: my wife's name from before they were even bought or built,

1095
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 26: so there is no dispute on the settlement. I just

1096
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 26: choose what pairs of broadshorts I need, and then I'm off.

1097
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 4: He has avoided publicity.

1098
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 26: Oh well, you can't blame him. He's living with a

1099
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 26: sword of damicles. I'm sure he'd be interested enough to

1100
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:46,720
Speaker 26: hear it.

1101
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 1: In a previous episode, you heard some evidence from a

1102
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:56,560
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight police statement by Bromwin's townhouse neighbor Alan Fisher.

1103
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 1: Here is more of what Alan recalled the events. Shortly

1104
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 1: after May sixteen, nineteen ninety three, about a.

1105
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,080
Speaker 27: Week after Bromwin went missing, I came home and noticed

1106
01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 27: a ladder leaning up onto the roof of the flat

1107
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:13,080
Speaker 27: that Bromham used to live at. I went over to

1108
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:15,920
Speaker 27: the landlady Shirley Taylor and told her about the ladder.

1109
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 27: Shirley came running over with her son and I saw

1110
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 27: there was two more people in the unit. It turned

1111
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 27: out that these people were friends of Bromwin who had

1112
01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:26,160
Speaker 27: got into Bromin's unit to make sure she wasn't there.

1113
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 27: They weren't there to steal anything. It was some time

1114
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:33,400
Speaker 27: later I was told by the landlady Shirley Taylor that

1115
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:35,720
Speaker 27: Bromwin's husband had been at the unit trying to get

1116
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 27: the rest of Brown's belongings. Shirley told me that the

1117
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 27: husband had said there were things missing and that he

1118
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 27: thought that Bromwin must have come back to the unit

1119
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:46,639
Speaker 27: and taken them. As I mentioned earlier, Bromin was very

1120
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:49,200
Speaker 27: close to her children, and I find it strange that

1121
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:51,760
Speaker 27: Bromwin would leave and not have any further contact with

1122
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:54,880
Speaker 27: her children. I remember that Bromwin would not even go

1123
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:57,439
Speaker 27: down to the local garage unless she had someone to

1124
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:00,040
Speaker 27: watch the kids while she was gone.

1125
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 1: Here's how the owner of the townhouses, Shirley Taylor, described it,

1126
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:07,920
Speaker 1: and you heard her in an earlier episode.

1127
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:10,800
Speaker 3: About two weeks later, John came to my place and

1128
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:13,280
Speaker 3: wanted to take the things that Broman had left behind.

1129
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 3: I had also spoken to the police about her disappearance,

1130
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:19,639
Speaker 3: and they told me to keep Bromin's belongings in case

1131
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 3: she returned. John came around a couple of times a

1132
01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 3: week and always requested Brohman's property, but I kept refusing him.

1133
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:31,400
Speaker 3: After a period of about six weeks, I returned Bromin's

1134
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:34,960
Speaker 3: belongings to John and he took them home. At a

1135
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:38,040
Speaker 3: later time, I was cleaning the townhouse and I located

1136
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:41,799
Speaker 3: a cane jewelry box on top of a wardrobe. Inside

1137
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:44,719
Speaker 3: the jewelry box was a brown ring case which contained

1138
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:48,679
Speaker 3: a gold chain with a tourist medallion, a further gold chain,

1139
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:51,880
Speaker 3: a heart shaped pennant with a diamond in the center,

1140
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 3: one nine carried gold wedding band, one gold engagement ring

1141
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:00,599
Speaker 3: with eight diamonds surrounding a larger diamond in the center,

1142
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:04,439
Speaker 3: and a gold pendant containing an opal and surrounded by

1143
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:08,800
Speaker 3: fourteen diamonds. Also contained in the jewelry box was a

1144
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 3: thick chained gold bracelet, a pink heart shaped soap, and

1145
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 3: a red and white dice. I was not aware whether

1146
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 3: these items belonged to Broman, so I put them in

1147
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 3: a cupboard in my house and they've been there ever since.

1148
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:24,600
Speaker 3: I did not know what to do with them and

1149
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 3: eventually forgot about them. I haven't seen Bromin since May fourteen,

1150
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety three, when she came and told me that

1151
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 3: she was returning to her house. I do recall that

1152
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:38,759
Speaker 3: she was extremely happy about moving back into the house.

1153
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:42,679
Speaker 3: I recall seeing something in the Northern Star newspaper about

1154
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 3: her disappearance, and I can say that I find it

1155
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 3: extremely hard to believe that Bromin would leave the children

1156
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:52,599
Speaker 3: behind if she were to go anywhere now.

1157
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 1: He is more from Peter Shanahan's police statement. Peter was

1158
01:10:56,960 --> 01:10:59,600
Speaker 1: one of the owners with his then wife Robin, of

1159
01:10:59,880 --> 01:11:02,679
Speaker 1: d takeaway, where Bromwyn had a part time job.

1160
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:06,679
Speaker 28: I recall that I spoke to a detective in nineteen

1161
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:09,519
Speaker 28: ninety three and told him about Bromin not turning up

1162
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:13,080
Speaker 28: for work on the Tuesday. Bromwin needed the money from

1163
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:16,000
Speaker 28: the casual work and would most definitely rang me to

1164
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:19,559
Speaker 28: tell me she couldn't come in. Bronwin never turned up

1165
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:22,439
Speaker 28: for any future work and I found out later that

1166
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:26,360
Speaker 28: she had disappeared. I have observed Bronwyn with her two

1167
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:29,720
Speaker 28: girls Crystal and Lauren, and I would describe Bronwyn as

1168
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:32,799
Speaker 28: a very good mother. For her to leave her girls

1169
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 28: and not make contact is not the Bronwin that I knew.

1170
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:38,479
Speaker 28: In my opinion, there is no way that Bronwin would

1171
01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:41,920
Speaker 28: have left her girls. Over the last few years, I

1172
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 28: have often wondered what happened to Bronwyn, and there's more

1173
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:50,559
Speaker 28: evidence from the nineteen ninety eight police statement of Maria Lewis,

1174
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:51,920
Speaker 28: Scruffy's wife.

1175
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:56,160
Speaker 29: Later, I found out that Bronwyn had supposedly gone away

1176
01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 29: for a holiday for two weeks and left the children

1177
01:11:58,240 --> 01:11:58,639
Speaker 29: with John.

1178
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:00,400
Speaker 4: I heard heard this.

1179
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:03,719
Speaker 29: I found it unbelievable, considering everything I'd heard from Bronwyn

1180
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:06,560
Speaker 29: whilst she was living in the flat. A couple of

1181
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:10,040
Speaker 29: weeks after Bronwyn had supposedly gone on holidays, John came

1182
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:13,320
Speaker 29: over to our house and we talked. He told us

1183
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:15,519
Speaker 29: that he and Bronwyn had had a long discussion and

1184
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:17,639
Speaker 29: that the stress with the kids had taken its toll

1185
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 29: with her and she had to get away. During this conversation,

1186
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:25,160
Speaker 29: he said, I've already lost two houses to two other women,

1187
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 29: and I'll do whatever it takes to see that it

1188
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 29: doesn't happen again. This is not the exact statement that

1189
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:32,599
Speaker 29: John made, but it is to the best of my recollection.

1190
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:36,639
Speaker 29: He also made comment about rumors which were circling Lennox's

1191
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:39,800
Speaker 29: head about him having buried her, and stated that if

1192
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:42,080
Speaker 29: he heard it again he would sue whoever said it.

1193
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:45,840
Speaker 29: I would describe Bronwyn as a very caring mother, and

1194
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 29: her children's interests always came first. I do not believe

1195
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:51,200
Speaker 29: that she would just get up and leave her children,

1196
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:55,000
Speaker 29: particularly with no further contact. I spent a lot of

1197
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:57,240
Speaker 29: time with her just prior to her disappearance, and I

1198
01:12:57,400 --> 01:12:59,840
Speaker 29: formed the opinion that she would do anything to stop

1199
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:02,720
Speaker 29: John getting custody of the children. And I find it

1200
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:05,080
Speaker 29: extremely hard to believe that she would go on a holiday,

1201
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:07,240
Speaker 29: not come back and leave the children with John as

1202
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 29: he has purported. I'm very definite about this.

1203
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:15,920
Speaker 1: Jane Johnston, the wife of John's cousin Richard who's better

1204
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 1: known as Andrew, had more to say in her statement

1205
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 1: to police in nineteen ninety eight too, And as with

1206
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:27,639
Speaker 1: Alan Fisher, Shirley Taylor, Peter Shanahand and Maria Glewis, these

1207
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 1: are the words from the police statement. They're being voiced

1208
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:32,120
Speaker 1: by an actor.

1209
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:36,599
Speaker 30: I didn't hear anything whilst I was overseas, other than

1210
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:38,840
Speaker 30: when Andrew met me. He told me that he had

1211
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 30: received a strange phone call from Bronwyn. Shortly after returning

1212
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:45,120
Speaker 30: home from overseas, Andrew and I went on a picnic

1213
01:13:45,160 --> 01:13:47,880
Speaker 30: at Stanwell Park with Peter and Louise Winfield.

1214
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:49,679
Speaker 6: Peter is John's brother.

1215
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:52,519
Speaker 30: While we were on the picnic, Peter told us that

1216
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:55,880
Speaker 30: Bronwyn had disappeared about a month prior. We didn't have

1217
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:58,519
Speaker 30: much contact with John after that, and I didn't discuss

1218
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:01,400
Speaker 30: her disappearance with him because he obviously didn't want to.

1219
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 1: One day in nineteen ninety four, while shopping in the Shire,

1220
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 1: Jane saw a woman in profile about thirty meters away.

1221
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 1: She thought the woman looked like Bromwin. Jane yelled Bromwin's

1222
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:20,240
Speaker 1: name loudly, but there was no response. Jane said she

1223
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:34,240
Speaker 1: ran after the shopper but lost her in the crowd.

1224
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:41,439
Speaker 1: Bronwyn is written and investigated by me Headley Thomas as

1225
01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 1: a podcast production for The Australian. If anyone has information

1226
01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:50,240
Speaker 1: which may help solve this cold case, please contact me

1227
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:56,759
Speaker 1: confidentially by emailing Bronwyn at the Australian dot com dot Au.

1228
01:14:57,479 --> 01:15:00,400
Speaker 1: You can read more about this case and see a

1229
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:04,879
Speaker 1: range of photographs and other artwork at the website Bromwyn

1230
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 1: Podcast dot com. Our subscribers and registered users here episodes first.

1231
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:16,320
Speaker 1: The production and editorial team for Bromwin includes Claire Harvey,

1232
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:22,400
Speaker 1: Kristin Amiet, Joshua Burton, Bridget, Bryan Bianca, far Marcus, Katie Burns,

1233
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:28,320
Speaker 1: Liam Mendez, Sean Callen, Matthew Condon and David Murray. Audio

1234
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:32,280
Speaker 1: production for this podcast series is by Wasabi Audio and

1235
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:36,960
Speaker 1: original theme music by Slade Gibson. We have been assisted

1236
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:41,000
Speaker 1: by Madison Walsh, a relation of Bromwin Winfield. We can

1237
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:43,840
Speaker 1: only do this kind of journalism with the support of

1238
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:48,640
Speaker 1: our subscribers and our major sponsors like Harvey Norman. For

1239
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:53,520
Speaker 1: all of our exclusive stories, videos, maps, timelines and documents

1240
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:57,400
Speaker 1: about this podcast and other podcasts including The Teacher's Pet,

1241
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:02,240
Speaker 1: The Teachers Trial, The Teacher's Accuser, Shandy Story, Shandy's Legacy

1242
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:06,280
Speaker 1: and The Night Driver, go to the Australian dot com

1243
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:11,759
Speaker 1: dot Au and subscribe